I’ve been in rc over 20 yrs and have raced, bashed, and crawled. I can fully appreciate your educated advice. I am able to set my stuff up pretty darn good but your extremely detailed explanations goes a loooong way towards helping those who want to learn and you teach on the exact whys and hows. Graphs and diagrams break it down to an easily consumable lump as easily and quickly as possible. Love your background experience and that it’s now translating to the rc world. Thanks man.
Very much appreciated. Thank you! SIMPLE is my goal, and it's a fun challenge to make it simple. Over-engineering is actually easier than doing something simply.
Some of these videos explain so much that I’ve used but didn’t really know how it was working. It’s allowed me to put a bunch of random pieces of information together that make a more complete picture.
This may have been a tutorial on understanding crawler setup but the benefit also applies to drifting as well. Had a heated argument about preload and spring rates with someone and what you’re saying was what I knew from studying as a heavy equipment mechanic. I know some of the concept but every now and then I need a refresher. Glad to know my setup is dialed in now.
The part on preload is sooooo good. If you think people have myth on crawler, try the rc drift scene for 30 seconds. People see preload as the devil himself, but only when the preload is on the collar, if the same preload is done by using offset spring cup it magically become correct.
so to prevent torque twist, pre-load is not useful because it is not making the spring stiffer which is what many ppl are saying in the mini crawler chat groups. interesting. And running no springs or shorter than the shock stroke springs doesn't make sense because I want my tires in contact with the surface; not just contact, but with a little force to have traction/friction.
That is correct - preload is not going to help with torque twist. Stiffer springs with low preload would be the correct approach. If you have no springs, you still have the weight of the axle and chassis pushing down on the tires for traction. Adding springs won't increase your down force - you can't create any more down force than the weight of your car (unless you are moving fast and add wings lol). Springs will help to smooth things out and maintain more consistent contact, but not add more force. 80-90% droop, very light springs with high preload is a nice place to be for most people. If you are climbing super steep stuff all the time, full droop with negative springs might be your preference.
It’s funny how various terms can be used so differently depending on the industry or hobby. You probably know about the rake/trail/HTA terminology differences in bicycles vs. motorbikes. Droop is one of these for me. I’m a track racer and droop to me has always meant maximum downtravel. It makes sense to me since lifting the car in the air causes all wheels to droop as low as they go. On-road cars and 1/8th scale buggies use set screws on the lower arms to limit downtravel and these are called droop screws by all the manufacturers as well. This difference caught me off guard at first but I don’t mind now that I know you’re consistent with it. Once again a very concise presentation from you. I don’t know if the naysayers will be convinced since people have a habit of sticking to their beliefs but we do what we can. Thanks!
Halfway through making this video I started to second guess myself. "Have I been saying it wrong all this time?" and "Am I crazy?" So I had to pause and do some fact checking. Sure enough, RC Crawlers almost always mean droop as compression and in the rest of the world it means extension. I have no idea how it got that way. Thanks for the kind words!
Another GREAT video! 👍 I love how you take the time to explain all the science/math behind complex theories. I don't always agree with what you say but I respect your opinion and appreciste the time and effort you put into these videos. That being said, say want you want about preload and it's affect (or lack there of) on spring weight - the fact is, if you change the bottom out force you change the way the vehicle handles. And, while moving weight to balance a vehicle may not be practical, it's often a suitable solution. Not ideal mind you but it solves the issue at hand. Say what you want about the car being twisted but it works. Don't get me wrong, not disagreeing with ANYTHING that you're saying but real life doesn't always agree with the science/math. And, sometimes, although a solution is not ideal, it might be the only alternative.
Weight balancing with preload is a tricky topic. Suppose you have more weight on the front left. That front left will sit lower. The way to "remove" the downforce on that wheel is to lessen the preload, so weight is transferred to the adjacent wheels. Unfortunately that causes that wheel sit even lower...in theory. In practice, you are right. Adding 1mm of preload does not lift that wheel by 1 mm because it's a 4-way balancing act between all the wheels. So you can probably fine tune the weight with preload without a noticeable effect. However, I personally think leveling the vehicle is more important than tweaking the wheelforce with preload, especially since crawling is a balancing act. That is why I recommend weight to balance weight and preload to level the car. Always a great discussion Jerry!
@@BoomslangSuss I agree, especially with crawling. Just not always practical. And in no prep, where minute weight changes can affect performance, almost always necessary to use preload. Great talking with you, always look forward to your videos! 👍
Desert Lizard shocks have options for internal negative coil springs. Slightly more advanced than external hair bands, but the same concept of positive and negative springs working together.
Be careful with negative or “droop” spring assemblies. It is not because the wheel descends by gravity sufficiently in full extension of the shock absorber that the tire will have grip. a tire needs load to get grip, not just contact.
You are partially correct if I understand your point. Your "downforce" is a function of the vehicles total weight, distributed across the 4 wheels. A negative spring doesn't magically levitate the wheel off the ground and reduce downforce, but it might constrict articulation and shift weight to the opposing wheel but it can't change total downforce. Gravity won't push all 4 wheels down evenly if that's what you mean.
I’ve been in rc over 20 yrs and have raced, bashed, and crawled. I can fully appreciate your educated advice. I am able to set my stuff up pretty darn good but your extremely detailed explanations goes a loooong way towards helping those who want to learn and you teach on the exact whys and hows. Graphs and diagrams break it down to an easily consumable lump as easily and quickly as possible. Love your background experience and that it’s now translating to the rc world. Thanks man.
Very much appreciated. Thank you!
SIMPLE is my goal, and it's a fun challenge to make it simple. Over-engineering is actually easier than doing something simply.
Finally somebody puts it down for real ! Thanks 👌
Some of these videos explain so much that I’ve used but didn’t really know how it was working. It’s allowed me to put a bunch of random pieces of information together that make a more complete picture.
I love that!
I really like how your videos make me appreciate all the math and physics classes I had!
And you probably thought you’d never have to use it! 🤣
@@BoomslangSuss I was the sort of nerd who enjoyed using it, and finding excuses to explain something with what I learned in math, physics, etc😁
@@kendotek9414I can relate 😅
This may have been a tutorial on understanding crawler setup but the benefit also applies to drifting as well.
Had a heated argument about preload and spring rates with someone and what you’re saying was what I knew from studying as a heavy equipment mechanic. I know some of the concept but every now and then I need a refresher.
Glad to know my setup is dialed in now.
I hoped some people would find the crossover application. Thanks for checking it out.
Great, thank you!
You are welcome!
The part on preload is sooooo good. If you think people have myth on crawler, try the rc drift scene for 30 seconds. People see preload as the devil himself, but only when the preload is on the collar, if the same preload is done by using offset spring cup it magically become correct.
🤣😂🥲 I love it.
so to prevent torque twist, pre-load is not useful because it is not making the spring stiffer which is what many ppl are saying in the mini crawler chat groups. interesting.
And running no springs or shorter than the shock stroke springs doesn't make sense because I want my tires in contact with the surface; not just contact, but with a little force to have traction/friction.
That is correct - preload is not going to help with torque twist. Stiffer springs with low preload would be the correct approach.
If you have no springs, you still have the weight of the axle and chassis pushing down on the tires for traction. Adding springs won't increase your down force - you can't create any more down force than the weight of your car (unless you are moving fast and add wings lol). Springs will help to smooth things out and maintain more consistent contact, but not add more force. 80-90% droop, very light springs with high preload is a nice place to be for most people. If you are climbing super steep stuff all the time, full droop with negative springs might be your preference.
It’s funny how various terms can be used so differently depending on the industry or hobby. You probably know about the rake/trail/HTA terminology differences in bicycles vs. motorbikes.
Droop is one of these for me. I’m a track racer and droop to me has always meant maximum downtravel. It makes sense to me since lifting the car in the air causes all wheels to droop as low as they go. On-road cars and 1/8th scale buggies use set screws on the lower arms to limit downtravel and these are called droop screws by all the manufacturers as well.
This difference caught me off guard at first but I don’t mind now that I know you’re consistent with it.
Once again a very concise presentation from you. I don’t know if the naysayers will be convinced since people have a habit of sticking to their beliefs but we do what we can. Thanks!
Halfway through making this video I started to second guess myself. "Have I been saying it wrong all this time?" and "Am I crazy?"
So I had to pause and do some fact checking. Sure enough, RC Crawlers almost always mean droop as compression and in the rest of the world it means extension. I have no idea how it got that way.
Thanks for the kind words!
Awesome tutorial. 👍🏾💯
Thank you!
Great information, how always 👍🏻
Thanks again!
Another GREAT video! 👍 I love how you take the time to explain all the science/math behind complex theories. I don't always agree with what you say but I respect your opinion and appreciste the time and effort you put into these videos. That being said, say want you want about preload and it's affect (or lack there of) on spring weight - the fact is, if you change the bottom out force you change the way the vehicle handles. And, while moving weight to balance a vehicle may not be practical, it's often a suitable solution. Not ideal mind you but it solves the issue at hand. Say what you want about the car being twisted but it works. Don't get me wrong, not disagreeing with ANYTHING that you're saying but real life doesn't always agree with the science/math. And, sometimes, although a solution is not ideal, it might be the only alternative.
Weight balancing with preload is a tricky topic. Suppose you have more weight on the front left. That front left will sit lower. The way to "remove" the downforce on that wheel is to lessen the preload, so weight is transferred to the adjacent wheels. Unfortunately that causes that wheel sit even lower...in theory. In practice, you are right. Adding 1mm of preload does not lift that wheel by 1 mm because it's a 4-way balancing act between all the wheels. So you can probably fine tune the weight with preload without a noticeable effect. However, I personally think leveling the vehicle is more important than tweaking the wheelforce with preload, especially since crawling is a balancing act. That is why I recommend weight to balance weight and preload to level the car. Always a great discussion Jerry!
@@BoomslangSuss I agree, especially with crawling. Just not always practical. And in no prep, where minute weight changes can affect performance, almost always necessary to use preload. Great talking with you, always look forward to your videos! 👍
Thanks!
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Interesting!
How does a dessert lizzard shock fit into your explenation?
Desert Lizard shocks have options for internal negative coil springs. Slightly more advanced than external hair bands, but the same concept of positive and negative springs working together.
Be careful with negative or “droop” spring assemblies. It is not because the wheel descends by gravity sufficiently in full extension of the shock absorber that the tire will have grip.
a tire needs load to get grip, not just contact.
You are partially correct if I understand your point. Your "downforce" is a function of the vehicles total weight, distributed across the 4 wheels. A negative spring doesn't magically levitate the wheel off the ground and reduce downforce, but it might constrict articulation and shift weight to the opposing wheel but it can't change total downforce. Gravity won't push all 4 wheels down evenly if that's what you mean.
You might enjoy this video - I talk about weight bias and balance a lot.
ruclips.net/video/wn4vBERXvGc/видео.html
Ew...maths...
Excellent job Jason!🤔
Thanks!