I think the reality is that you need a real upscaling device to actually make these look how they used to. For GameCube, I've been enjoying using the Morph 4k for basic CRT effects (the retrotink 4k is the best in class but insanely expensive) and scanlines (which prescaling will undo the 720p/1080p upscaling done in modded consoles), especially on modern OLED TV's. This is expensive though, but imo makes old games look "correct". It's something of a pain to learn how to use these advanced upscalers, but if you're after quality, you're just never going to get it out of a $100 device, sadly. If someone wanted non-CRT stylized outputs from old consoles but wants them to look like modern 1080p or 4k games... you just can't lol. Maybe we'll get AI upscalers in the future for specific consoles/games, but most likely that will also be very expensive.
@MetalJesusRocks You don't appear to be preparing your video sources properly. In one segment you appear to be passing it a PS1 at 1080p and think it might just be passing the video through -well it can't do much upscaling if you already upscale the image. Secondly Jet Set Radio is super blurry, you are passing a horrible unclean video source through. Also using the retrotink to upscale the image will reduce the effect the mClassic provides. The mClassic needs to upscale the image to mostly any of it's processing.
I don't know why they made two other versions as the original is perfectly fine. Black levels aren't perfect. But I have a option on my LG G2 called Game Black Level. I just turn that up a bit and problem solved.
@@ryanduffy2152 Maybe this is just them experimenting as they say it uses Ai to help with cleaning things up. I've seen this type of thing on PC and now the PS5Pro with cleaning up the image on resolutions of 1080p and below. So it's similar to that. But on a lower level. They should just make the Mclassic 4k already. That's what I'm interested in.
@arcaderacer586 found the whole 1 fan boy haha. For starters it'd make it more accessible and bring it to a modern standard. As the years go on mico USB cables haven't exactly become easier to find, slowly turning into what happened with Mini USB. It'd be a stronger and a reverseable port for durability and longevity. Anything else? Or is that enough
Let’s be real. The M Classic already was a fringe item. Does it, technically, make images better? Suuuuuuuuurrrrrre. Could the average person even notice? Hard no. So when you start getting into variants of this product, come on man.
@ The regular M Classic when used on the Gamecube DOES actually clean up the image. Whether it’s worth what they charge… that’s up to you. But these things, I legit cannot tell what has what.
yes, the concept of adding filters is great but is not executed here like it should, where we see it adds contrast and more saturation...it crushes the white tones and thats a no no in my book.
They know gamers get hung up on inconsequential details and will pay money for "the best" experience. Even though much of this can be accomplished with TV adjustments.
Thing is with these pixel processor / upscalers is there’s no middle ground between the “barely adequate” $40 casual market and the $300+ “upscaler laboratory for sickos” Retrotink crowd
I get the sentiment, but the niche is actually getting filled. The Open Source Scan Converter for $100(to the door with international shipping, I just got one myself) is a great for converting VGA, SCART and component signals to HDMI with pristine quality, and it can upscale 240-480p content up to 1440p. HDMI capture cards are getting better and cheaper too.
@@winterhell2002The main problem with the OSSC is whether or not your display or capture device will be compatible with all its line multiplication modes, particularly in regards to 3rd, 4th and 5th gen consoles.
As an owner of a Retrotink 4K, 100% agreed. I hope more competent developers make great alternatives to the Retrotink that help drive costs down. OSSC ain't bad at all (I had a couple of them), but nothing beats Retrotink in compatibility and features.
Honestly from what I can see it looks like a lotta these modes really just end up LOSING information and clarity, both in the Whites/Highlights and the Blacks/Shadows. The kirby Switch footage was losing a LOT of high-end gray information and the Crash Bandicoot PS1 footage was losing a BUNCH in the low-end gray/black info. Funnily enough, in an attempt to “improve” the visual quality, they just end up making it much, much worse. GameDevs spend a lot of time chosing hues, brightness, and saturation for a reason! Often through a deep understanding of the video signals involved, which in contrast (pun very much intended) Marseille does not seem to have.
These sort of products just never made sense to me. Most of small details you will never notice when you are focused playing the game. Reminds me of how Sony was really trying to push the PS5 Pro and how it’s so important you can see those small details in the background in games, like I’m gonna be focusing on that when actually playing the game.
I'm particularly puzzled about the decision to use HDMI as an input for the retro version. I'm glad that he pointed out in the video that none of those consoles come with HDMI and so you either need to mod them to add HDMI or use something like the retrotink to conver to HDMI. Personally though, I mostly use my Mister FPGA for supported consoles.
If you live anywhere with a vibrant Facebook Marketplace scene, you can get a small CRT for free. I was never a CRT true believer until I found one in my garage, but now I’m glad I don’t have to mess with any processors or scalers.
I used to have a CRT but I replaced it for the Retrotink 5x I wanted to take advantage of SVideo, component, and RGB the CRT only supported composite also the space
@@mikeymacaque Seriously CRT is such a hassle free advantage for hooking up, composite/s video. But for pvm if you're using rgb, you really have to do your research buying the right rgb cables depending on your pvm , I think there are 4 different sync cables for rgb. Composite on sync, sync on composite, sync on luma and C Sync. 😩
I‘m very happy with the og mClassic. Using it with N64, PS1/2, Dreamcast and Gamecube. All of them output 480p, based on their connected devices like Carby, retrotink2xScart etc., upscaling it to my 1080p TV. But I don’t get those 2 new versions other than tricking people to need 2 devices now…
Bought and returned one a little while ago. All it seemed to do is put a crappy schmear filter on anything 720p and bellow. 1080p and up I noticed no difference.
I just remembered that I also have one of those and I found it so incredibly useless due to the additional power supply needed that I don't even remember where I put it 😅 Thank you for an honest review of the new models ❤
I've had an mClassic for 4 years and it is one of my favorite devices. Firstly, most people don't use it correctly. You have to turn-off within the console, any upscaling, and restrict it to it's native resolution (this includes turning-off dynamic resolution). This allows the upscaler to turn on with the mClassic which is a significantly higher quality upscaler than what the Switch or PS3 has. If you don't restrict to the native resolution of the game, and turn-off dynamic resolutions, the mClassic will not upscale the image, and only apply anti-aliasing and color enhancements. Also, unless your tv officially supports 1440p without being forced, the most the mClassic will do is upscale to 1080p, not 1440p. My tv fortunately supports 1440p without being forced, but it also works on my capture card too. MClassic has an official tv compatibility list that you can check to see which tvs will support 1440p, if you are not trying to play through a capture card. Most PS3 games restricted to 720p, look fantastic with the mClassic, boosting the image to 1440p, while maintaining a locked framerate. FF13 comes to mind as looking particularly great. For the Switch, I have it restricted to 720p for all games, and use the mClassic, and it looks fantastic. I have not really noticed any significant enhancements to pixel based games, or really anything pre-PS2 era. One other area I have used the mClassic on, is with my mini-PC. It isn't powerful enough to run AAA games at 60 FPS 1080p, but it can run 60 FPS at 720p. So I use the mClassic, and it boosts the image to 1440p, without putting strain on my mini-pc. It's one of my favorite devices.
@@Gubalicious you would even get wqhd, on a wqhd-monitor. I use it like that, but on most TVs, it's just upscaling to 1080p, because of the missing (internal) wqhd-upscaler. If that would be the case, you could get 4k(on a 4K TV)
I've always seen these as a solution in search of a problem. The mClassic range just seems to smear the image with some kind of bilinear filter while adjusting the contrast and saturation. As you say, if someone can get their console to HDMI, they likely already have a better solution, such as an Open Source Scan Converter, GBS-Control or RetroTink. And that customer base doesn't want smears, they typically want pixel perfect.
I've used the original mClassic for going on 3 years. The OG worked fine. Really helped 6th gen games look a lot better, especially with component/SCART/HDMI out (showing off composite is doing it a disservice but you can still see how big the difference is at least). Pretty much useless for everything else though, and these new "revisions" are just a complete waste of time, like WTF. Edit: If you're confused on the existence of these devices like I was, go watch Adam Koralik's video. He does a much better job at explaining what this new lineup is actually supposed to do.
Thank you. I will watch it. As much as i like Jesus. This Video doesn't seem to do the adapter justice or explain it well and i am really curious. Because even with no effort to get the setup right i see an impressive difference in the GameCube Signal in this video.
Video game snake oil in my honest opinion. The question should be "does this device increase my enjoyment of playing a game?" The answer is certainly NO in this case. I think these companies are mistaking the difference between their engineers finding enjoyment of tinkering when building and designing these things, versus the enjoyment of end users playing a game on a modern TV. People can definitely get hooked on dialing in subtle differences when building it for themselves, but that doesn't translate well to those who just want to play the games. Having only 3 options is hardly "dialing it in". If they want to make something so people can dial it in, then it should have a bunch of knobs and dials!
@@XboxSpecialistClearly that's the problem. Why haven't they invented a device that adds new colors to the light spectrum? How about something that comes in below ultraviolet? We can't see that anyway, so they could launch it in beta, and nobody would know to complain when it doesn't work. Someone needs to get on this, stat!
One person calls it snake oil and then every generic bozo calls it snake oil as well. If you’re going to criticize the product, use a thesaurus and expand your vocabulary genius.
The overblown upper / whites would be a deal breaker for me, example at 6:20 look at King Dedede's coat, the white fur lining is missing subtle details on the Mclassic green side vs Direct, also the mountains to the left of the waterfall are missing details due to the same issue, at 6:30 the Mclassic Blue mode seems to do ok with highlights but it also doesnt look much different vs. Switch direct, then he switches to Green mode at 6:39 and the overblown highlights are back.
I got two of these. One for my original xbox and the other for my dreamcast. I saw years ago you had one on your channel, and I was blown away by the difference. So I thank you for showing me this device.
Bought the original one a few years ago, it worked well with my Dreamcast and Kaico HDMI adapter upscaling to 1080p. Did notice a nicer image when connected to my Switch. Once I got ahold of a Retrotink 5x Pro the following year, I haven't used it since and completely forgot about it. 17:44
12:20 literally the ONLY difference I can see is a singular shadow on Crash's ear, that is already difficult to notice, is less visible on the right due to it being ever so slightly brighter, that's literally it, that is the saddest thing I have seen in a while lol
Also notice how the Smash videos get slightly out of sync as it goes on? I think it's adding a frame of lag every once in a while. Not to be expected, but shows it's "doing stuff" LOL
There's a small amount of red hue, Hard to notice (a lot of people have bad color perception), It's most noticable on the yellow text, the yellow sand and the wood and the tree wich are slightly more red
I think what they were thinking was: Gamers get really hung up on inconsequential details and will pay for things that make them feel like they're getting 'the best' experience. And they will no doubt sell a decent amount of these, even though for the most part, these "improvements" can be accomplished with adjusting your TV or monitor contrast and saturation.
They need to get all of these features in a single device. I had the original version. I enjoyed it, but i experienced a lot of screen tearing. I was unable to resolve the issue and had to return it. I hope the company takes MJR's recommendations.
I noticed on some of the Switch footage that the image was sharper (easy to tell on the crystal flower things in Kirby), but in most cases the difference is not noticeable. And that "Retro" model.. haha, the hoops you have to jump through. Just.. why??
11:47 At first I did not noticed this, but if you look at the ground and the right tiki, the color is a bit darker. Wonder if this device would work for a Commodore 64.
Good Video! I think gamers have to be super careful these days to not be ripped off every now and then. First thing I remember really regretting (still) is buying the Neo Geo Mini, which just in about every aspect sucks. Thanks for your videos, dude, you've stopped me from buying a thing or two already in the past but I also got to know (and eventually own) some cool stuff like the Evercade... Please keep 'em videos comin' 🙂 p.s.: If you look at 13:58 (guy sitting on table), it seems to me like the contrast in the right picture (green LED) is just a notch higher than in the other two pictures... maybe it's my eyes playing tricks on me, but I think you can see just a little bit more detail (check the different imperfections in the snow, for example). Barely noticable, though, if it's even really there...🤔
Best results i got with mclassic was with 360 set to 720p. I didnt notice as much improvement with 6th gen consoles. I noticed less of an improvement if source set to 1080p
@@crestofhonor2349 Yes, as long as there's a nice integer value that can be multiplied by both the X and Y directions to get the upscaled value, you still get something that looks pretty good. It's when there are decimals involved where you get issues with it looking like absolute garbage. It's why certain resolutions looks so bad on LCD screens and other non-native ones still look OK-ish.
If they added a usb port and made the programing opensource so people could edit the video processing and upload their own profiles for people to download and add to their device that'd be a pretty kl idea
I use the mClassic with the Retrotink mini on my TCL 4k tv, but not for any visual enhancements. I had issues with the Retrotink mini connected directly to the tv; mainly it would drop the signal randomly for a few seconds, then display on the tv again. And also, the tv doesn’t have a squeeze video mode, so the image from the Retrotink was being stretched. The mClassic helps to retain a steady image, and the 4:3 mode of it keeps the proper aspect ratio.
I was pretty jazzed up for the Retro mclassic, but the color saturation options left me confused and ultimately I've not purchased yet. I do have the OG mClassic and honestly it cleans things up VERY nicely in my experience. (usually use it on snes thru wii. 64 and GC seem the best. Modded Wii is very crisp) I guess retro's default mode still does the same as the OG's retro mode so that's cool. I was looking to have another mclassic to not have to move it from the wii over to the retro setup in another room, but $70+ for that is a bit much. It would be cool to have some configuration and/or firmware options this time as well. Like someone else posted there doesn't seem to be a good middle ground between garbage and high-end retroTink/OSSC. Maybe I should have just gotten a tink 2x pro by the time i bought the mclassic and other items. lol
Thank you Jason for an amazing review of this thing and an honest review, too. This is why you are the best, for me at reviews like this as you always give an honest answer. I had one of these back in 2019 when I had a real PS2, and even back then I saw very little point to it. Now, all my retro is on emulation, and I do not own any retro consoles at all and see no need to do so for my situation living alone. And, of course with most emulators you can do many enhancements anyway. The only issue I have with this whole video is saying that we all own 4k displays. No. I don't. I cannot afford one yet. Hopefully after Christmas I will, but for now it's 1080p for me.
Even the original MClassic had very little impact IMO. I still use it with my eon gchd though because it helps keep the true 4:3 aspect ratio in check. Other than that I forget I’m using one most of the time 🤷♂️
I like the green LED effect. That looked really good on the Kirby demo. Also, the colors on the Bandicoot demo were slightly brighter and more yellow: Crash himself appeared slightly more orange than red, for example.
Apparently the trick is to have your Switch settings at its native 720p, especially as the stock dock upscaling to 1080p isn’t completely great. At least that what others have said...
As someone who has the original mClassic and really enjoys mine... Fantastic video, man! The moment you revealed these two "new" models, I was confused because the functions they're advertising are already done pretty well with the standard mClassic. Other than the USB port which has gotten a little finicky with time, I love using mine on most Switch, PS3, Wii, Wii U games. But there's just absolutely no need for these devices. Thanks for being totally transparent about it, you're right -- this was a huge missed opportunity by a company who I feel like had a good amount of praise! And great choice of games by the way -- Love Cruis'n Blast and 1080 Avalanche.
Personally I've considered these in the past because I was looking for a way to get a constant 1080p out of an HDMI signal. My Viture XR glasses require a 1080p signal to function so if I wanted to do something like play PS3 with them I'd need a way to manipulate the signal coming out of the box to always output at a consistent 1080p. If it drops below 1080p (as PS3 games often do) then the glasses freak out and won't work properly. There may be a better way to do this, though.
@@juansalas2882 The issue is that these newer options don't appear to do anything that the original didn't do. So, they might get somebody to buy the newer one in addition to the older one, but I can't imagine that being a particularly common occurrence, especially if people watch these videos. Most of the sales they'll get from this are sales they would have already gotten from the original device. If they wanted people to upgrade, they should have released a more expensive version that was upgraded with things like USB-C and perhaps a more powerful chip on it.
The Crash Bandicoot footage is pretty improved by the M classic. Look at the white text that says Bandicoot and you'll notice sharper outline around the text Bandicoot and added detail to the trees in the background and if that's visible in a compressed RUclips video it has to be very visible in person. I think some people's eyes just aren't trained to pick up on smaller details.
12:30 when you’re talking about the modded ps1, I wonder if because it is outputting at 1080p already like you said, the retro doesn’t do anything with it, because it’s expecting a low resolution output. Have you tried it with the switch edition to see if it does anything with the aliasing?
Yeah, I still have my original mClassic and I don't think these new ones isn't for me but it's an awesome video to understand about these new mClassics.
I really like the visuals Metal Jesus used in this video. While he's having trouble telling the difference I can see it pretty well. However, I think his point about noticing this while in motion might negate the benefits. I think this video is a good companion video to the one Adam Koralik did. I think MJ poses the right question and Adam's video provides an answer.
Bought one for my switch a while ago. My TV is a 4k TV and this product only upscales to 2k but cannot make the TV go into 2k mode just stays locked at 1080p. Odd considering I can do whatever resolution I want on my PC connected to the TV. Win some lose some.
I agree with the mclassic 2 take, we definitely need a system that gives us an mclassic that has a 4k 60hz mode, as the current mclassics can upscale 480p 60hz, 720p 60hz and 1080p 60hz images to 1080p 60hz and 1440p 60hz, (they can upscale 480p 30hz, 720p 30hz and 1080p 30hz signals to 4k 30hz). Not many people have external converters that can change the refreshrate of a image signal and I doubt many are willing to go find one just so they can run their 30fps games on a 4k display that supports a 30hz input. currently people just stick to upscaling the 1080p or 1440p output to 4k, how someone gets that image to 4k is up to the personal preference of the user.
7:10 The Switch Green led looks better...but nowhere near enough i would want this. Which TV is this best for 2k? Why so there is less delay than having your TV do the work of upscaling?
look the comparison with "night mode" turned on, then you'll see the difference enchanced. televisions are very differenty and you'll want solution to get the color mode right. In my eyes the blue looks like crap, green ok .. I work a lot on computer with 6 different monitors every day so my eyes are really sensitive to it and the little changes to the blue tint. Hope my rambling post makes sense :D
I appreciate your honest review. And thank you for your work! You are a great positive gaming RUclipsr. Quite a few RUclips channels are like 80% negative.
Like I said on John Hancock's video, I never really saw the point of these. They kind of seem like a waste of money, as you should be able to get _very_ close, just by adjusting your TV/monitor's contrast, saturation, brightness levels, the aspect ratio, etc. Smart TVs these days already have different picture modes/profiles built in too, so you just have to play around with all these settings and see what looks the best... You'll save yourself a lot of coin. 🤷 I guess if your TV/monitor somehow doesn't have any of these options or settings, then i can see a use for the Mclassic dongles, but otherwise, yeah, I don't see the point. To each their own though! 😉
The image enhancements on a lot of TVs can actually introduce imput lag, in addition to this some TVs won't accept a 4:3 signal from a 1080p resolution or higher, so the [red] MClassic forcibly squishes it into 4:3.
That's what 'Game Mode' is for, on most TV's anyway... That setting is supposed to have the lowest latency. Every flat panel HDTV I've had has been able to change aspect ratios as well, but that's just my experience with the couple different ones I've had over the past 10 years or so. Like I said, I'm sure the Mclassic comes in handy, if your TV somehow doesn't have those options. The OG Mclassic is one thing, but I really don't see the point with these new ones that came out... If they upscaled to 4k, they would've had a homerun, but there just seems to be a a lot of missed opportunities here. 🤷
@R3TR0R4V3 yeah but game mode disables all image enhancement. The purpose of scalers like the MClassic and Retrotink is to upscale, smooth, and otherwise enhance the image while the TV is on game mode so you don't have to mess with the settings, without introducing lag.
@thefool3424 Idk what to tell you.. I can still adjust picture settings in Game mode, on my TV, without any added latency. Obviously this is all on a case by case basis too, depending on your setup and the hardware you're running. I also ran an OSSC for years, for everything from the Atari 2600 up, but nowadays use Retrotink products. My point still stands though, and this is all just IMHO. Speaking of Retrotinks and whatnot, you're a lot better off with a quality upscaler/line doubler like that, vs the Mclassic, which is kind of a one trick pony in comparison, but whatever floats your boat my dude.. If you dig the Mclassic & it works for you, then that's fantastic. Over & out! ✌️
I bought a mclassic and I don't wanna miss it. The problem for most TVs: they dont have an wqhd-upscaler, so it wont upscale to 4k. You need an internal upscaler. Personally I use it at an Wqhd-Monitor and its WORKING! You can clearly see the difference. So for me, its fine. Specially if I use it for switch, ps3 and even older consoles.
I have a retrotink 2x pro and not having scanlines is a deal killer for me. If a scaler is advertised as for retro consoles it should have an optional scanline filter, all the old games were meant to be viewed with every other line unused on old crts so you get that depth to the graphics the developers intended and the sprites look right.
This was a chance for them to use AI upscaling to 4k or at least 2k like their very own dlss, fsr, pssr with a custom menu for tweeking like the gchd menu. 😢
I mean what would they actually put on the device in terms of hardware to achieve that in a reasonable price? It would just end up being a far worse retrotink
Quote for the box: “It’s doing stuff… I guess” - Metal Jesus
It's definitely doing stuff. I don't think that anyone can deny that
I died 😂
I think the reality is that you need a real upscaling device to actually make these look how they used to. For GameCube, I've been enjoying using the Morph 4k for basic CRT effects (the retrotink 4k is the best in class but insanely expensive) and scanlines (which prescaling will undo the 720p/1080p upscaling done in modded consoles), especially on modern OLED TV's. This is expensive though, but imo makes old games look "correct". It's something of a pain to learn how to use these advanced upscalers, but if you're after quality, you're just never going to get it out of a $100 device, sadly. If someone wanted non-CRT stylized outputs from old consoles but wants them to look like modern 1080p or 4k games... you just can't lol. Maybe we'll get AI upscalers in the future for specific consoles/games, but most likely that will also be very expensive.
I'll stick to the original combined with the 4k Gamer Pro.
@MetalJesusRocks You don't appear to be preparing your video sources properly. In one segment you appear to be passing it a PS1 at 1080p and think it might just be passing the video through -well it can't do much upscaling if you already upscale the image. Secondly Jet Set Radio is super blurry, you are passing a horrible unclean video source through. Also using the retrotink to upscale the image will reduce the effect the mClassic provides. The mClassic needs to upscale the image to mostly any of it's processing.
The moment I saw it was still using Micro USB instead of updating it to USB-C, I immediately knew absolutely zero effort was put in
I don't know why they made two other versions as the original is perfectly fine. Black levels aren't perfect. But I have a option on my LG G2 called Game Black Level. I just turn that up a bit and problem solved.
@WllKiedSnake personally I can't prove it but I suspect they're identical to the original model with a new coloured mould and tweaked software.
@@ryanduffy2152 Maybe this is just them experimenting as they say it uses Ai to help with cleaning things up. I've seen this type of thing on PC and now the PS5Pro with cleaning up the image on resolutions of 1080p and below. So it's similar to that. But on a lower level. They should just make the Mclassic 4k already. That's what I'm interested in.
So what exactly would usb c bring to the table on this device? Give us your expertise?
@arcaderacer586 found the whole 1 fan boy haha. For starters it'd make it more accessible and bring it to a modern standard. As the years go on mico USB cables haven't exactly become easier to find, slowly turning into what happened with Mini USB. It'd be a stronger and a reverseable port for durability and longevity. Anything else? Or is that enough
I can just go into my tv settings and turn color saturation up... for free.
I have a oled tv and it looks pretty much like my oled switch lmao
I know right 🤯
😂
... and it doesn't add (input) delay
@LyRaLex this, this is such an underrated point. Probably the most important thing people forget about until it's too late.
I love how these guys sent these to EVERY youtuber and you're ALL shitting on it :D
Let’s be real. The M Classic already was a fringe item. Does it, technically, make images better? Suuuuuuuuurrrrrre. Could the average person even notice? Hard no. So when you start getting into variants of this product, come on man.
Dont forget mjr was telling us to buy this years ago. I saw throught it then and still do today😂
They forgot the part where you pay them 😅
@ The regular M Classic when used on the Gamecube DOES actually clean up the image. Whether it’s worth what they charge… that’s up to you. But these things, I legit cannot tell what has what.
Some love it, ironically all got it for free for review
Thanks god a voice of reason got these. Some reviewers were recommending these when it was clear as day that they made the colors worse in all cases.
Snake oil.
100%
yes, the concept of adding filters is great but is not executed here like it should, where we see it adds contrast and more saturation...it crushes the white tones and thats a no no in my book.
They know gamers get hung up on inconsequential details and will pay money for "the best" experience. Even though much of this can be accomplished with TV adjustments.
@@eugenemorrison2720 true.
Completely wrong
Thing is with these pixel processor / upscalers is there’s no middle ground between the “barely adequate” $40 casual market and the $300+ “upscaler laboratory for sickos” Retrotink crowd
Yea, I'd rather save my money for a RetroTink 4K at that point.
I've been very happy with the RetroTink 2X Pro in the range of $100-140. I see MJR has one at around 17:30 in the video.
I get the sentiment, but the niche is actually getting filled. The Open Source Scan Converter for $100(to the door with international shipping, I just got one myself) is a great for converting VGA, SCART and component signals to HDMI with pristine quality, and it can upscale 240-480p content up to 1440p.
HDMI capture cards are getting better and cheaper too.
@@winterhell2002The main problem with the OSSC is whether or not your display or capture device will be compatible with all its line multiplication modes, particularly in regards to 3rd, 4th and 5th gen consoles.
As an owner of a Retrotink 4K, 100% agreed. I hope more competent developers make great alternatives to the Retrotink that help drive costs down. OSSC ain't bad at all (I had a couple of them), but nothing beats Retrotink in compatibility and features.
I appreciate that you’re being honest in these reviews ! ❤
Week 1 of asking MJR to bring back the GAMER EATS series 🤘
Seconded !
Honestly from what I can see it looks like a lotta these modes really just end up LOSING information and clarity, both in the Whites/Highlights and the Blacks/Shadows.
The kirby Switch footage was losing a LOT of high-end gray information and the Crash Bandicoot PS1 footage was losing a BUNCH in the low-end gray/black info.
Funnily enough, in an attempt to “improve” the visual quality, they just end up making it much, much worse. GameDevs spend a lot of time chosing hues, brightness, and saturation for a reason! Often through a deep understanding of the video signals involved, which in contrast (pun very much intended) Marseille does not seem to have.
Jason, thanks for your honest review. I don't quite get it either between these two new options. The differences don't enhance the experience.
These sort of products just never made sense to me. Most of small details you will never notice when you are focused playing the game. Reminds me of how Sony was really trying to push the PS5 Pro and how it’s so important you can see those small details in the background in games, like I’m gonna be focusing on that when actually playing the game.
I'm particularly puzzled about the decision to use HDMI as an input for the retro version. I'm glad that he pointed out in the video that none of those consoles come with HDMI and so you either need to mod them to add HDMI or use something like the retrotink to conver to HDMI.
Personally though, I mostly use my Mister FPGA for supported consoles.
Would you like to buy some magic beans ?!
But you've been buying magic beans for years 🤷
@GavinTownsley ???
If you live anywhere with a vibrant Facebook Marketplace scene, you can get a small CRT for free. I was never a CRT true believer until I found one in my garage, but now I’m glad I don’t have to mess with any processors or scalers.
I used to have a CRT but I replaced it for the Retrotink 5x I wanted to take advantage of SVideo, component, and RGB the CRT only supported composite also the space
@ fair enough. I’m lucky enough to have a CRT that supports svideo and component.
@@mikeymacaque Seriously CRT is such a hassle free advantage for hooking up, composite/s video. But for pvm if you're using rgb, you really have to do your research buying the right rgb cables depending on your pvm , I think there are 4 different sync cables for rgb. Composite on sync, sync on composite, sync on luma and C Sync. 😩
I‘m very happy with the og mClassic. Using it with N64, PS1/2, Dreamcast and Gamecube. All of them output 480p, based on their connected devices like Carby, retrotink2xScart etc., upscaling it to my 1080p TV. But I don’t get those 2 new versions other than tricking people to need 2 devices now…
Bought and returned one a little while ago. All it seemed to do is put a crappy schmear filter on anything 720p and bellow. 1080p and up I noticed no difference.
Love how you did the side by sides for this video
I just remembered that I also have one of those and I found it so incredibly useless due to the additional power supply needed that I don't even remember where I put it 😅
Thank you for an honest review of the new models ❤
Not just scanlines, but they should also focus on 4K. Scanlines are between pixels, so you need a higher resolution for that.
I've had an mClassic for 4 years and it is one of my favorite devices. Firstly, most people don't use it correctly. You have to turn-off within the console, any upscaling, and restrict it to it's native resolution (this includes turning-off dynamic resolution). This allows the upscaler to turn on with the mClassic which is a significantly higher quality upscaler than what the Switch or PS3 has. If you don't restrict to the native resolution of the game, and turn-off dynamic resolutions, the mClassic will not upscale the image, and only apply anti-aliasing and color enhancements. Also, unless your tv officially supports 1440p without being forced, the most the mClassic will do is upscale to 1080p, not 1440p. My tv fortunately supports 1440p without being forced, but it also works on my capture card too. MClassic has an official tv compatibility list that you can check to see which tvs will support 1440p, if you are not trying to play through a capture card. Most PS3 games restricted to 720p, look fantastic with the mClassic, boosting the image to 1440p, while maintaining a locked framerate. FF13 comes to mind as looking particularly great. For the Switch, I have it restricted to 720p for all games, and use the mClassic, and it looks fantastic. I have not really noticed any significant enhancements to pixel based games, or really anything pre-PS2 era. One other area I have used the mClassic on, is with my mini-PC. It isn't powerful enough to run AAA games at 60 FPS 1080p, but it can run 60 FPS at 720p. So I use the mClassic, and it boosts the image to 1440p, without putting strain on my mini-pc. It's one of my favorite devices.
"So...what would you say YA DO here?"
-Bob #1 Office Space 😂
This was a very informative video. Great review
Glad it was helpful!
Mclassic used with wii u for gamecube games gives a lovely output at 1080p compared with not using it. It makes a difference and i like using it.
Exactly how I use mine too and love it. Glad I don't need to buy a new one! lol
Yes and n64 eon! Makes a big difference
I am impressed how much better GameCube games look with this adapter.
@@Gubalicious you would even get wqhd, on a wqhd-monitor. I use it like that, but on most TVs, it's just upscaling to 1080p, because of the missing (internal) wqhd-upscaler. If that would be the case, you could get 4k(on a 4K TV)
I really like the original M classic, was very curious to see how different algorithms would effect things.
Its caca
Vintage retro+ = washed out vintage jeans filter.
I've always seen these as a solution in search of a problem. The mClassic range just seems to smear the image with some kind of bilinear filter while adjusting the contrast and saturation.
As you say, if someone can get their console to HDMI, they likely already have a better solution, such as an Open Source Scan Converter, GBS-Control or RetroTink. And that customer base doesn't want smears, they typically want pixel perfect.
I've used the original mClassic for going on 3 years. The OG worked fine. Really helped 6th gen games look a lot better, especially with component/SCART/HDMI out (showing off composite is doing it a disservice but you can still see how big the difference is at least). Pretty much useless for everything else though, and these new "revisions" are just a complete waste of time, like WTF.
Edit: If you're confused on the existence of these devices like I was, go watch Adam Koralik's video. He does a much better job at explaining what this new lineup is actually supposed to do.
Thank you. I will watch it. As much as i like Jesus. This Video doesn't seem to do the adapter justice or explain it well and i am really curious. Because even with no effort to get the setup right i see an impressive difference in the GameCube Signal in this video.
Video game snake oil in my honest opinion. The question should be "does this device increase my enjoyment of playing a game?" The answer is certainly NO in this case. I think these companies are mistaking the difference between their engineers finding enjoyment of tinkering when building and designing these things, versus the enjoyment of end users playing a game on a modern TV. People can definitely get hooked on dialing in subtle differences when building it for themselves, but that doesn't translate well to those who just want to play the games. Having only 3 options is hardly "dialing it in". If they want to make something so people can dial it in, then it should have a bunch of knobs and dials!
Seriously there’s only 3 colors . Red , Green , & Blue . Then there’s basically only Brightness and Contrast remaining other than screen dimensions .
@@XboxSpecialistClearly that's the problem. Why haven't they invented a device that adds new colors to the light spectrum? How about something that comes in below ultraviolet? We can't see that anyway, so they could launch it in beta, and nobody would know to complain when it doesn't work. Someone needs to get on this, stat!
I like it when paired with eon64! And if have extra $ then get it but no one does so…
One person calls it snake oil and then every generic bozo calls it snake oil as well. If you’re going to criticize the product, use a thesaurus and expand your vocabulary genius.
The overblown upper / whites would be a deal breaker for me, example at 6:20 look at King Dedede's coat, the white fur lining is missing subtle details on the Mclassic green side vs Direct, also the mountains to the left of the waterfall are missing details due to the same issue, at 6:30 the Mclassic Blue mode seems to do ok with highlights but it also doesnt look much different vs. Switch direct, then he switches to Green mode at 6:39 and the overblown highlights are back.
I got two of these. One for my original xbox and the other for my dreamcast. I saw years ago you had one on your channel, and I was blown away by the difference. So I thank you for showing me this device.
Bought the original one a few years ago, it worked well with my Dreamcast and Kaico HDMI adapter upscaling to 1080p. Did notice a nicer image when connected to my Switch. Once I got ahold of a Retrotink 5x Pro the following year, I haven't used it since and completely forgot about it. 17:44
Thank you for being sincere! Great video BTW.
Thanks for watching!
12:20 literally the ONLY difference I can see is a singular shadow on Crash's ear, that is already difficult to notice, is less visible on the right due to it being ever so slightly brighter, that's literally it, that is the saddest thing I have seen in a while lol
Also notice how the Smash videos get slightly out of sync as it goes on? I think it's adding a frame of lag every once in a while. Not to be expected, but shows it's "doing stuff" LOL
@@MetalJesusRocks that is incredible LMAO
There's a slight color difference in the title on that screen as well.
There's a small amount of red hue, Hard to notice (a lot of people have bad color perception), It's most noticable on the yellow text, the yellow sand and the wood and the tree wich are slightly more red
I think what they were thinking was: Gamers get really hung up on inconsequential details and will pay for things that make them feel like they're getting 'the best' experience. And they will no doubt sell a decent amount of these, even though for the most part, these "improvements" can be accomplished with adjusting your TV or monitor contrast and saturation.
Appreciate the honest review of these products
They need to get all of these features in a single device. I had the original version. I enjoyed it, but i experienced a lot of screen tearing. I was unable to resolve the issue and had to return it. I hope the company takes MJR's recommendations.
looks like it just boosts the red value a bit?
Im too early so hi Mjr hope you are having a great day and may you also have a wondeful new year !
This is like watching ps5 vs ps5 pro comparison
You’re not wrong 😂
Wait so this improves framerates by a noticeable margin? 🤗
He’s very wrong.
@@akingsleyit is wrong because this is much cheaper than ps5 vs ps5pro. 😂
@@alanf8622 "noticeable"
I noticed on some of the Switch footage that the image was sharper (easy to tell on the crystal flower things in Kirby), but in most cases the difference is not noticeable. And that "Retro" model.. haha, the hoops you have to jump through. Just.. why??
11:47 At first I did not noticed this, but if you look at the ground and the right tiki, the color is a bit darker. Wonder if this device would work for a Commodore 64.
I watch most of your videos but this one I didnt really plan on until I saw you rocking the Spirit Adrift shirt 🤘🤘🤘
Good Video! I think gamers have to be super careful these days to not be ripped off every now and then. First thing I remember really regretting (still) is buying the Neo Geo Mini, which just in about every aspect sucks. Thanks for your videos, dude, you've stopped me from buying a thing or two already in the past but I also got to know (and eventually own) some cool stuff like the Evercade...
Please keep 'em videos comin' 🙂
p.s.: If you look at 13:58 (guy sitting on table), it seems to me like the contrast in the right picture (green LED) is just a notch higher than in the other two pictures... maybe it's my eyes playing tricks on me, but I think you can see just a little bit more detail (check the different imperfections in the snow, for example). Barely noticable, though, if it's even really there...🤔
Do these newer models deinterlace and upscale 480i or 576i or 1080i?
Best results i got with mclassic was with 360 set to 720p. I didnt notice as much improvement with 6th gen consoles. I noticed less of an improvement if source set to 1080p
Makes sense because 720p to 4k is nonlinear so it looks like ass by default
@@joeykeilholz925 720p can be integer scaled to 4K
@@crestofhonor2349 Yes, as long as there's a nice integer value that can be multiplied by both the X and Y directions to get the upscaled value, you still get something that looks pretty good. It's when there are decimals involved where you get issues with it looking like absolute garbage. It's why certain resolutions looks so bad on LCD screens and other non-native ones still look OK-ish.
If they added a usb port and made the programing opensource so people could edit the video processing and upload their own profiles for people to download and add to their device that'd be a pretty kl idea
Another tiny step in this modern era of diminishing returns.
I'm glad you made a video on this! Thank you for sharing
They are blue and green
That's what they do.
lol
I use the mClassic with the Retrotink mini on my TCL 4k tv, but not for any visual enhancements. I had issues with the Retrotink mini connected directly to the tv; mainly it would drop the signal randomly for a few seconds, then display on the tv again. And also, the tv doesn’t have a squeeze video mode, so the image from the Retrotink was being stretched. The mClassic helps to retain a steady image, and the 4:3 mode of it keeps the proper aspect ratio.
I was pretty jazzed up for the Retro mclassic, but the color saturation options left me confused and ultimately I've not purchased yet. I do have the OG mClassic and honestly it cleans things up VERY nicely in my experience. (usually use it on snes thru wii. 64 and GC seem the best. Modded Wii is very crisp) I guess retro's default mode still does the same as the OG's retro mode so that's cool. I was looking to have another mclassic to not have to move it from the wii over to the retro setup in another room, but $70+ for that is a bit much.
It would be cool to have some configuration and/or firmware options this time as well. Like someone else posted there doesn't seem to be a good middle ground between garbage and high-end retroTink/OSSC. Maybe I should have just gotten a tink 2x pro by the time i bought the mclassic and other items. lol
Thank you Jason for an amazing review of this thing and an honest review, too. This is why you are the best, for me at reviews like this as you always give an honest answer. I had one of these back in 2019 when I had a real PS2, and even back then I saw very little point to it. Now, all my retro is on emulation, and I do not own any retro consoles at all and see no need to do so for my situation living alone. And, of course with most emulators you can do many enhancements anyway. The only issue I have with this whole video is saying that we all own 4k displays. No. I don't. I cannot afford one yet. Hopefully after Christmas I will, but for now it's 1080p for me.
Even the original MClassic had very little impact IMO. I still use it with my eon gchd though because it helps keep the true 4:3 aspect ratio in check. Other than that I forget I’m using one most of the time 🤷♂️
Full Throttle in the intro, Gibson Les Paul Custom in the background…. Video games… Aaaaaand that’s a sub.
I like the green LED effect. That looked really good on the Kirby demo. Also, the colors on the Bandicoot demo were slightly brighter and more yellow: Crash himself appeared slightly more orange than red, for example.
Apparently the trick is to have your Switch settings at its native 720p, especially as the stock dock upscaling to 1080p isn’t completely great. At least that what others have said...
As someone who has the original mClassic and really enjoys mine... Fantastic video, man! The moment you revealed these two "new" models, I was confused because the functions they're advertising are already done pretty well with the standard mClassic. Other than the USB port which has gotten a little finicky with time, I love using mine on most Switch, PS3, Wii, Wii U games. But there's just absolutely no need for these devices. Thanks for being totally transparent about it, you're right -- this was a huge missed opportunity by a company who I feel like had a good amount of praise! And great choice of games by the way -- Love Cruis'n Blast and 1080 Avalanche.
Glad you liked the video. You're totally right!
Personally I've considered these in the past because I was looking for a way to get a constant 1080p out of an HDMI signal. My Viture XR glasses require a 1080p signal to function so if I wanted to do something like play PS3 with them I'd need a way to manipulate the signal coming out of the box to always output at a consistent 1080p. If it drops below 1080p (as PS3 games often do) then the glasses freak out and won't work properly.
There may be a better way to do this, though.
marseille is wasting everyone's time and obviously just needs money
I read that wrong at first. I agree.
companies made products for money? oh no... anyway
@@juansalas2882 The issue is that these newer options don't appear to do anything that the original didn't do. So, they might get somebody to buy the newer one in addition to the older one, but I can't imagine that being a particularly common occurrence, especially if people watch these videos. Most of the sales they'll get from this are sales they would have already gotten from the original device. If they wanted people to upgrade, they should have released a more expensive version that was upgraded with things like USB-C and perhaps a more powerful chip on it.
I noticed in another review that the Mclassic retro definitely helped the picture in alot of games but the others I see no point.
It’s best with 480p and 720p 3D games.
If you squint you can see a difference!
Nice Spirit Adrift shirt, loved their record from last year, 'Ghost at the Gallows', or was it 2022, cool shirt.
Yep! I am a massive fan of that album as well.
It looks like playing a game on my Toshiba hdcrt with it set to warm picture mode.
The Crash Bandicoot footage is pretty improved by the M classic. Look at the white text that says Bandicoot and you'll notice sharper outline around the text Bandicoot and added detail to the trees in the background and if that's visible in a compressed RUclips video it has to be very visible in person. I think some people's eyes just aren't trained to pick up on smaller details.
5:30 Lol MJR puts in that one Family Guy meme. But yeah, these new versions of the mclassic are hard to tell the difference.
12:30 when you’re talking about the modded ps1, I wonder if because it is outputting at 1080p already like you said, the retro doesn’t do anything with it, because it’s expecting a low resolution output. Have you tried it with the switch edition to see if it does anything with the aliasing?
Wow, what the point indeed. Thanks for shedding some light on this.
This solves ............the problem we don't have. Way to little change.
The red one is pretty good I use it often especially with the switch
I think I’ll stick to my CRT picture options. 😊
12:19 There's like a TINY hue change, It looks slightly reder, more noticable on the sand
*Morph 4k* from *Pixel FX* is all you need. Soon adding analogue upscaling too. Much better price-to-performance.
Yeah, I still have my original mClassic and I don't think these new ones isn't for me but it's an awesome video to understand about these new mClassics.
I really like the visuals Metal Jesus used in this video. While he's having trouble telling the difference I can see it pretty well. However, I think his point about noticing this while in motion might negate the benefits. I think this video is a good companion video to the one Adam Koralik did. I think MJ poses the right question and Adam's video provides an answer.
6:39 The green LED mode or whatever looks very nice IMO -- I can tell a good difference
Bought one for my switch a while ago. My TV is a 4k TV and this product only upscales to 2k but cannot make the TV go into 2k mode just stays locked at 1080p. Odd considering I can do whatever resolution I want on my PC connected to the TV. Win some lose some.
I just use the Retron 5 to cover most of the retro stuff. I also have a Duo for TG16 and PCE. 2600+ for Atari. I find that it works pretty well.
Is it just me or does the sky on Burnout 3 look better than I've seen the sky look in years?
Thank you for doing this!
I agree with the mclassic 2 take, we definitely need a system that gives us an mclassic that has a 4k 60hz mode, as the current mclassics can upscale 480p 60hz, 720p 60hz and 1080p 60hz images to 1080p 60hz and 1440p 60hz, (they can upscale 480p 30hz, 720p 30hz and 1080p 30hz signals to 4k 30hz). Not many people have external converters that can change the refreshrate of a image signal and I doubt many are willing to go find one just so they can run their 30fps games on a 4k display that supports a 30hz input.
currently people just stick to upscaling the 1080p or 1440p output to 4k, how someone gets that image to 4k is up to the personal preference of the user.
0:20 What are you playing right here?
7:10 The Switch Green led looks better...but nowhere near enough i would want this. Which TV is this best for 2k? Why so there is less delay than having your TV do the work of upscaling?
IMO Kirby looks better without any adapter, colors look more nuanced, I don't like oversaturation.
@@souljastation5463 no such thing as oversaturation lol
look the comparison with "night mode" turned on, then you'll see the difference enchanced. televisions are very differenty and you'll want solution to get the color mode right. In my eyes the blue looks like crap, green ok .. I work a lot on computer with 6 different monitors every day so my eyes are really sensitive to it and the little changes to the blue tint.
Hope my rambling post makes sense :D
I guess this is evidence of why I was so excited to find a working CRT tv for retro game consoles.
Preempting the Switch 2? Maybe??!!
I'm glad to know these exist as an option! ...but I have no idea why I would want one.
I appreciate your honest review. And thank you for your work! You are a great positive gaming RUclipsr. Quite a few RUclips channels are like 80% negative.
I try to keep it real and positive! Thanks for the support.
6:45 i feel like enhance+ is for ppl with OLED displays
I thought the same thing
It's been a minute. But, MJR always has the info to keep you wondering.... How does he know all of this? Lol thanks brother!!!!
reminds me of my favorite MJR moment... "clicky thumbsticks is very hard to make"
That makes two of us.
I bought an OSSC like 4 years ago and it’s compatible with all of my retro systems. They all look amazing and there is no input delay.
Nice Spirit Adrift shirt! 🤘🏻
Like I said on John Hancock's video, I never really saw the point of these. They kind of seem like a waste of money, as you should be able to get _very_ close, just by adjusting your TV/monitor's contrast, saturation, brightness levels, the aspect ratio, etc.
Smart TVs these days already have different picture modes/profiles built in too, so you just have to play around with all these settings and see what looks the best... You'll save yourself a lot of coin. 🤷
I guess if your TV/monitor somehow doesn't have any of these options or settings, then i can see a use for the Mclassic dongles, but otherwise, yeah, I don't see the point. To each their own though! 😉
The image enhancements on a lot of TVs can actually introduce imput lag, in addition to this some TVs won't accept a 4:3 signal from a 1080p resolution or higher, so the [red] MClassic forcibly squishes it into 4:3.
That's what 'Game Mode' is for, on most TV's anyway... That setting is supposed to have the lowest latency. Every flat panel HDTV I've had has been able to change aspect ratios as well, but that's just my experience with the couple different ones I've had over the past 10 years or so.
Like I said, I'm sure the Mclassic comes in handy, if your TV somehow doesn't have those options. The OG Mclassic is one thing, but I really don't see the point with these new ones that came out... If they upscaled to 4k, they would've had a homerun, but there just seems to be a a lot of missed opportunities here. 🤷
@R3TR0R4V3 yeah but game mode disables all image enhancement. The purpose of scalers like the MClassic and Retrotink is to upscale, smooth, and otherwise enhance the image while the TV is on game mode so you don't have to mess with the settings, without introducing lag.
@thefool3424 Idk what to tell you.. I can still adjust picture settings in Game mode, on my TV, without any added latency. Obviously this is all on a case by case basis too, depending on your setup and the hardware you're running. I also ran an OSSC for years, for everything from the Atari 2600 up, but nowadays use Retrotink products. My point still stands though, and this is all just IMHO.
Speaking of Retrotinks and whatnot, you're a lot better off with a quality upscaler/line doubler like that, vs the Mclassic, which is kind of a one trick pony in comparison, but whatever floats your boat my dude.. If you dig the Mclassic & it works for you, then that's fantastic. Over & out! ✌️
Why would I need an extra device for that and not just fiddle with the settings on my TV?
I bought a mclassic and I don't wanna miss it. The problem for most TVs: they dont have an wqhd-upscaler, so it wont upscale to 4k. You need an internal upscaler. Personally I use it at an Wqhd-Monitor and its WORKING! You can clearly see the difference. So for me, its fine. Specially if I use it for switch, ps3 and even older consoles.
Yep it seems to make the picture much better with the right setup.
@Mia-rk9en yes, definetly!
Have you tried the hyperkin can cables for the classic consoles
I have a retrotink 2x pro and not having scanlines is a deal killer for me. If a scaler is advertised as for retro consoles it should have an optional scanline filter, all the old games were meant to be viewed with every other line unused on old crts so you get that depth to the graphics the developers intended and the sprites look right.
Have you seen the original m classic mess up the retrotink 2xpro scanlines . ? It tries to blend the scanlines
This was a chance for them to use AI upscaling to 4k or at least 2k like their very own dlss, fsr, pssr with a custom menu for tweeking like the gchd menu. 😢
I mean what would they actually put on the device in terms of hardware to achieve that in a reasonable price? It would just end up being a far worse retrotink