15:10 It would not surprise me if someone in the church had encountered a black person with vitiglio, the condition which causes dark skin to lose its pigment, and that became the basis for believing one might become whiter for some spiritual reason. That would be the most charitable explanation for their claim I can think of.
My parents joined the church in 1957. My dad was a home teacher in our little, mostly white and Hispanic small town on the west coast 🎉to an older woman who was black. As the years went by Dad was amazed that she became lighter and lighter, and he taught us kids it was a testament to her righteousness. He believed all those “doctrines” taught back then. But when he was a youth, he had black friends in the urban area his family lived. He loved them, but believed they’d been “fence-sitters” in the war in heaven and hoped his friends from his youth would become members someday and live righteously like this sister in our ward did. Interestingly, she wasn’t active, which back then meant you weren’t all that righteous. (It still does, lol.) The incongruence was not lost on us kids. I heard all these things Dr. Harris shares in High Counselor talks, as well as Stake Conferences. I remember well the BYU sports boycott. When we did Book of Mormon in early morning Seminary we were appalled at the skin cursing stuff so the Lamanites wouldn’t be appealing to the Nephites, as in for marrying, they said…no race mixing, and white and delightsome parts. We hadn’t read that far during the dozen times we started the BoM earlier in life. They also taught that children born in the covenant were of more noble birthright than those born to converts and later sealed. That was a stigma we kids dealt with by the more “righteous and faithful” pioneer descendants. So you could be white and still be a second class member. We’ve come a long way since then, thankfully. God bless us, every one.
wow a black branch president in those days!... LOL WOW I'm laughing so hard right now! lol, by the way I'm an active black member, this is some wild history, love this series!
This is on page 73 footnote 45 in Matt's book which you should buy so you can look this up yourself. Go to amzn.to/3Aemyb3 Anyway, the footnote reads: Smith to Florence Preece, January 18, 1955, Box 9, Folder 7, JFS: "Discussion after the Talk on Racial Prejudice by Mark E. Peterson," transcript 34.
When I was in, I would have said "Lets own it! If its scripture, its scripture! People who get offended dont have to be mormon." Reversed example: Rastafarians.
I truly believe that the scripture has been misinterpreted. I have seen the darkness in all people due to spiritual darkness and then the glow of spiritual enlightenment. It is visible but doesn’t really change skin color but countenance.
Dear Rick Bennett, I have a hard time listening to your podcast because you laugh at everything. I don’t understand why you laugh at things that sound horrifying? Can you please tell me why you laugh at things that are so sad and make me cry?
Rodney, I'm sorry. My previous response was defensive. I don't know you. You may feel like you know me, or you may be a new listener. I have no idea. I would hope you could build a relationship of trust before asking a question like that of a stranger. It came across as intensely personal, but that may not have been your intention. I'm not psychologist, and don't attempt to play one on tv (or RUclips.) But if I may play armchair psychologist on myself for a second, it's probably a coping mechanism on my part to ease the sting when talking about tough topics like this. Combine that with the fact that I consider Matt a really good friend, and I certainly laughed a bit too much in this interview. But it was my attempt to soften the blow when I knew the topic was tough. I'm sure you would act differently, and that's great. But I do stand by my previous comment. If I do something that annoys you, please listen to someone else. I have no desire to annoy anyone, and I don't appreciate critical comments from strangers with whom I have no relationship. I'm sorry for my defensive comment. Once again, if anything on this podcast bothers you, please find another podcast that more accords with your listening preferences. But I hope people find this conversation valuable and enlightening. Because I sure did, even if my attempts to soften the blow seem strange to you or anyone else.
@@GospelTangents Rick, I am sorry my comment to you may have been too personal and rude. I am actually trying to learn more about you, because the content in your podcasts interests me a great deal. I actually admire you for being able to have conversations with so many different people, with such drastically different view points, on the subject of Mormonism. That is something I cannot do because I end up getting in huge arguments. I am grateful you are having the conversations, rather than just ignoring painful subjects like church leaders do. I am a lifelong member of the church that quit attending 2 years ago when I was 47. I guess I am still in the angry stage of trying to deal with the church. I wish I could be more like you and talk to people without getting so upset with how the church acts. I just don’t agree with the church anymore, and all I want to do is cry. I wish I could let things roll off my back and move on with my life. So anyway, I’m sorry I was rude, I believe you are doing good work by talking about this stuff. - Rodney Huckaby
@@rodneyhuckaby8716 Rodney, I know so many people in your situation. I wish I had better answers. The difference between people like you and people like me isn't the information. The difference is the fact that some people feel betrayed and react angrily to the betrayal. I guess I never had that much faith so perhaps the feelings of betrayal aren't as strong for me as they are for you. You may or may not find this interview helpful. It was just released on Friday. ruclips.net/video/KN6LAQIgOIQ/видео.html
I appreciate Matts comment when he said, we have to own our history. This rings true with everything not just racial fluidity.
I agree!
I respect the honesty in this series, or at least what I’ve seen so far. I will be buying this book.
I think you'll love the book. I think it will win a lot of awards in 2025.
15:10 It would not surprise me if someone in the church had encountered a black person with vitiglio, the condition which causes dark skin to lose its pigment, and that became the basis for believing one might become whiter for some spiritual reason.
That would be the most charitable explanation for their claim I can think of.
While I know that is a thing, I think that is an unlikely explanation.
My parents joined the church in 1957. My dad was a home teacher in our little, mostly white and Hispanic small town on the west coast 🎉to an older woman who was black. As the years went by Dad was amazed that she became lighter and lighter, and he taught us kids it was a testament to her righteousness. He believed all those “doctrines” taught back then. But when he was a youth, he had black friends in the urban area his family lived. He loved them, but believed they’d been “fence-sitters” in the war in heaven and hoped his friends from his youth would become members someday and live righteously like this sister in our ward did. Interestingly, she wasn’t active, which back then meant you weren’t all that righteous. (It still does, lol.) The incongruence was not lost on us kids. I heard all these things Dr. Harris shares in High Counselor talks, as well as Stake Conferences. I remember well the BYU sports boycott. When we did Book of Mormon in early morning Seminary we were appalled at the skin cursing stuff so the Lamanites wouldn’t be appealing to the Nephites, as in for marrying, they said…no race mixing, and white and delightsome parts. We hadn’t read that far during the dozen times we started the BoM earlier in life. They also taught that children born in the covenant were of more noble birthright than those born to converts and later sealed. That was a stigma we kids dealt with by the more “righteous and faithful” pioneer descendants. So you could be white and still be a second class member. We’ve come a long way since then, thankfully. God bless us, every one.
Thank goodness different races and skin color will no longer be.
@@richardprice9979 oh I hope not! I love all the differences among God’s children!!
So sad to hear this but it's good to have out there to help start healing.
wow a black branch president in those days!... LOL WOW I'm laughing so hard right now! lol, by the way I'm an active black member, this is some wild history, love this series!
Welcome! Glad to hear you're enjoying the series.
Where did you get the quote from Joseph Fielding Smith that he said he wished the section on Elijah Able had not been included? Or is this hearsay?
This is on page 73 footnote 45 in Matt's book which you should buy so you can look this up yourself. Go to amzn.to/3Aemyb3
Anyway, the footnote reads: Smith to Florence Preece, January 18, 1955, Box 9, Folder 7, JFS: "Discussion after the Talk on Racial Prejudice by Mark E. Peterson," transcript 34.
I live in the East coast, but visiting Idaho/Utah for a few days. Where can I pirchase the Secon-Class Saints book? Thank you!
Benchmark Books, Sam Weller Books, and King's English in SLC is great. Pioneer Books in Provo are a few. Of course, Amazon too.
@@GospelTangents Thank you Rich!
When I was in, I would have said "Lets own it! If its scripture, its scripture! People who get offended dont have to be mormon." Reversed example: Rastafarians.
We still need to own it, and the bad interpretations.
I truly believe that the scripture has been misinterpreted. I have seen the darkness in all people due to spiritual darkness and then the glow of spiritual enlightenment. It is visible but doesn’t really change skin color but countenance.
Dear Rick Bennett,
I have a hard time listening to your podcast because you laugh at everything. I don’t understand why you laugh at things that sound horrifying? Can you please tell me why you laugh at things that are so sad and make me cry?
Don't listen if it annoys you.
Rodney,
I'm sorry. My previous response was defensive. I don't know you. You may feel like you know me, or you may be a new listener. I have no idea. I would hope you could build a relationship of trust before asking a question like that of a stranger. It came across as intensely personal, but that may not have been your intention.
I'm not psychologist, and don't attempt to play one on tv (or RUclips.) But if I may play armchair psychologist on myself for a second, it's probably a coping mechanism on my part to ease the sting when talking about tough topics like this. Combine that with the fact that I consider Matt a really good friend, and I certainly laughed a bit too much in this interview. But it was my attempt to soften the blow when I knew the topic was tough. I'm sure you would act differently, and that's great.
But I do stand by my previous comment. If I do something that annoys you, please listen to someone else. I have no desire to annoy anyone, and I don't appreciate critical comments from strangers with whom I have no relationship. I'm sorry for my defensive comment. Once again, if anything on this podcast bothers you, please find another podcast that more accords with your listening preferences. But I hope people find this conversation valuable and enlightening. Because I sure did, even if my attempts to soften the blow seem strange to you or anyone else.
@@GospelTangents
Rick,
I am sorry my comment to you may have been too personal and rude. I am actually trying to learn more about you, because the content in your podcasts interests me a great deal.
I actually admire you for being able to have conversations with so many different people, with such drastically different view points, on the subject of Mormonism. That is something I cannot do because I end up getting in huge arguments.
I am grateful you are having the conversations, rather than just ignoring painful subjects like church leaders do.
I am a lifelong member of the church that quit attending 2 years ago when I was 47. I guess I am still in the angry stage of trying to deal with the church.
I wish I could be more like you and talk to people without getting so upset with how the church acts.
I just don’t agree with the church anymore, and all I want to do is cry. I wish I could let things roll off my back and move on with my life.
So anyway, I’m sorry I was rude, I believe you are doing good work by talking about this stuff.
- Rodney Huckaby
@@rodneyhuckaby8716 Rodney, I know so many people in your situation. I wish I had better answers. The difference between people like you and people like me isn't the information. The difference is the fact that some people feel betrayed and react angrily to the betrayal. I guess I never had that much faith so perhaps the feelings of betrayal aren't as strong for me as they are for you. You may or may not find this interview helpful. It was just released on Friday. ruclips.net/video/KN6LAQIgOIQ/видео.html