I appreciated the laugh every time you spoke of factory or sanctioning body. Think when they were doing it, it was a run what you brung. What ever they had sitting in the yard. In this case it's your car, do what you wanna do. I'm just along for the ride. No right or wrong.
I worked on a 1976 Toyota Corona a friend had. It had an overhead cam. Th cam lobes would roll down to a "pool" of oil & up to a rocker arm. Because the engine sat tilted back, not flat, the front cam lobe...after some wear...didn't get oil with the "pool" tilted back. It ate out the bottom of the rocker arm and wore the lobe off of the cam. Tilt was something the engine designer didn't factor in. May not apply? but good to remember. Thanks for the videos, guys. I have watched the Model A time-lapse a score of times!
Some the welds on that car looks like the welds I did in high school metal work class when I was trying to learn to weld with a stick welder. My mig welds today look slightly better😊.
I remember crawling around and in grandpa's dirt track cars out in the sticker bushes, way back in late sixties and seventies. I robbed many parts from those hulks for my first car in, a 57' chevy 2dr post with 6cyl and 3 on the tree. I used many of the engine mount ideas from those chassis to install a 69' 427 dual quad & a M20. They all had a removable cross bar from frame to frame, some had separate engine pads like what you just fabbed, but ALL cars had a U shaped cross bar from side to side with 2 bolts vertical and 1 bolt front to back on each side. All the floor pans had been moved back and boxed in for the clutch bell crank and to get the pedals back to reachable since the seats were moved so far back. I didn't do much to my floor pan, but the bayonet mounts came out and the mid mounts got striped to the rails and boxed,,,and with a one piece trans crossmember that car still flexed between the three mount points violently. Add a bolt in cross tube to what you've already got done David , and keep the manual clutch linkage, you're' fabbing a better floor pan anyway. Just for your piece of mind.
Glad I'm not the only one saying "Please clean up those welds" I know most of the race cars back then were built with a stick welder and literally just gobbed together... but you have the technology and opportunity to grind out and fix some of those welds. Hydraulic clutches are not a modern invention... that technology existed back then, go for it!
Hydraulic clutches were used back then? Electric cars preceded most IC engine cars but that doesn’t make a modern electric drivetrain appropriate for this build. Sanitizing a period correct survivor is Streetrodding. There is a point where one has to accept a weld as structurally sound and leave it. Without that mentality one would replace every cobbled mod on the car with a catalogue part. Leave it all and use mechanical linkage and whatever was used when the car was built.
Noteworthy mention that back in the day these cars were built out of scrap with whatever could be obtained from junkyards. No mig welders back then either. Over-engineering will be hard not to do which I'm sure you are aware. Backyard mechanics & friends for pit crews worked by lanterns after the working day to get ready to race on the weekends. They were legends in there own right. So happy you guys are saving this car & can't wait to see it finished. Good Luck.
back in the 60,s some people used to race drunk and parts would fall off cars during races. A lot of race cars in Australia during the 60,s 70,s even today are stolen, cars chopped up to build race cars. unfortunately it still goes on. VIN numbers aren,t checked at tracks and are often cut out, love these hagerty builds and really nice detail allways. love it. great job doing this old car and nice work also.
@@devisionhun I thought the car was put together in that V8 configuration in the early 60s. But I probably need to look back at thatbfirst video to be certain. However if it's a 60s era dirt track car it would era appropriate.
@@ZeGermanHam exactly what I meant... Davin can basically pick and choose what period he wants to make it "correct" to. Like, out of 4-5 decades basically :)
This is one of the coolest builds on RUclips iv been tossing around the idea of turning my rusted out 46 Chevy truck into a 50-70s low fast wide tire possibly moonshine hauling ridge runner old style racing suspension stuff and this is really inspiring me 🇺🇸👍🏁
You beat me, I was going to suggest that it's a race car, solid mount that engine and no binding of the clutch linkage. Also, it's a race car, use a hydraulic clutch if you want....
Works for my veedubs. And it's nice to have a throttle cable too. It's amazing how lazy new drive by wire is. For kicks if you can turn off traction control you'll see how much better throttle response is. Still won't match a cable though.
Typically we used a stock oil pan with a kickout and baffles with a trap door. The pan height from the ground to the bottom of the pan was if you lost a front wheel the pan wouldn't touch the ground
I would be inclined to have the rear axle in place before I mocked up the engine but like I’ve heard countless times in all my years pulling wrenches, there’s a hundred ways to do a job and they’re all correct...
My opinion on period correct vs modern convention in this context is if there is a significant safety advantage, go with the modern equivalent. Vis a vis three point belt as opposed to lap/no belt and in this case hydraulic throw out bearing that won’t bind up (if I understand what you were saying correctly).
Four critical measurements I remember was the upper ball joint deal, crank height(measured at center of front..dictated by sanctioning body), carb flange level...and starter ring gear shouldn't hit ground (we ran dry sumps so, this WAS A THING)...also, in amongst all this, LOW AND LEFT...Once all that sorted out, THEN you worried about u joint angles and phasing.Generaly did all this happy crap whilst car was on 10" "elephant" stands,suspension installed, tires, as well... at intended ride height ...using tape measures, straight edges, plumb bobs and digital angle finders.
"Period correct" is a sentimental based phenomena and only worth it if you actually want to afford/budget for it Sentiment = $ spent and that can get very expensive very quickly! Get over it. Hydraulic throw-out is a safety/reliability issue when compared to the very crappy and very compromised Z-bar linkage
When you started this resto, Tom was with you, he even helped with the initial stripdown. Is he slacking, or have you sent him to look for some more period correct parts?
Pretty sure Tom will be back for the final assembly... working out all the little things can be quite time consuming and as Tom said in the teardown episode this kinda stuff is a little out of his league
I would put heads on the block and a set of headers you are going to use before anything to figure all of the clearance issues. the clutch type those old clutch linkages can be a pain
Sure it'll have a little play , but overall it'll feel nicer than some hydro setup. Try driving an old car with a throttle cable , then get in your new car and realize how much you lose in response. I sneeze in my old beast and I spill the coffee I'm holding cause I tickled the gas pedal.
@@aaronpreston47 yea but I've got a 52 hp wonder with a cable and as slow as it is , it still reacts to your foot when you lift a cheek to toot your horn when you're driving.
I had a Mopar that could leave the clutch pedal jammed on the floor if you gave it a real big rev at the lights. Lots of torque reaction - and embarrassment! With solid engine mounts, that won't matter. I hope your mounts leave enough room for the headers. I'm looking forward to how this turns out.
technically it's never been a period correct car it's been modded every time it got a new engine or trans the only period part is the body. so any one complaining over a hydraulic throw out bearing is full of it just bring the car up to date and make it safe Snow Ball will love it.
concentric/hydraulic throwout would be a way to go. could also use a cable setup. would be more mechanically/aesthetically correct, imho. easy to change out when necessary, and low profile for clearance issues.
I would go with the Z bar clutch linkage, to show how difficult it is to get one right. Anyone can throw a hydraulic set up at a car, but it seems people want to learn new stuff. It's no small feat to get mechanical linkage to work right and have the right feel with out needing to use both feet to push it in and it has to take the abuse of being mashed with all your strength.
Use the Hydraulic setup. It's far superior to everything else. Better feel, and the chatter and vibration from mechanical just beats the crap out of it prematurely. Also I see a lot of gaps in the welds. Whatever is left from before that you end up keeping should just go over them to cap them up.
As far as the clutch the way i would look at it is in the racing world at the time, they used whatever was available that made their life easier so i would go with the hydraulic. If they had the optionback then, they would have used it.
McLeod has a hydraulic throw out for the A-833... have one in my 1968 Charger... it sat for 8 years while I was away in the USAF and the bearing still works without issue or leaks... just saying.
For the clutch I'd say go hydraulic if the purpose of the car is looks with occasional driving in events. But if you will also be having people drive it to see what an old race car is like, the keep the mechanical clutch.
I was thinking of dropping my ls low in my 35 coupe so i dont have to cut sheetmetal. How low is to low can that be measured from the ground to the oil pan? Could i raise my front end a bit for the correct drive shaft angle? I like your motor mounts is rubber bushings necessary, i did not notice any on yours?
Davin, If the 37 will not have to comply with any racing sanctioning rules, modern or antique other than upgraded safety features, than any modern mods you make like a hydraulic clutch, is just fine. But, I prefer close to original as safely possible.
When I first started racing we had a zbar set up but after the first season I did away with it and went hydraulic we had so much trouble with the bar set up I know it's not period correct but it made everything so much easier and I still have the first hydro throw out even it's a spare part I would use it in a second
The 440 will be a Monsta, as I would have said growing up, But as some stated if you want period correct, a "souped up" Ford flathead would look better but not be as fast as the 440.
Run a slave cylinder mounted to the side of the block with either a separate master cylinder or a combination brake/clutch truck master cylinder like we ran in the 60's if you want to be period correct. Also you do realize that body is not a 37 it's either a 39 or 40.
those pesky rear distributors.... It's not like you wouldn't have chopped another hole in the firewall for a little clearance.. Good work getting this old girl going again!
Give me a hydraulic clutch any day of the week. If juice brakes work, why not a hydraulic clutch? My Z bar system wore out pivot points, would bind and needed more adjustments than a 2 dollar watch.
Not sure I would be happy with the cantilever on those chassis rails. There is going to be a lot of weight on those & zero snubbing from flexible mounts. As they say "if it looks right then it probably is".....the inverse is also true.
Please keep the clutch linkage original! There's probably a million videos of people installing modern hydro clutches, you might be the only one with an old school mechanical linkage.
I appreciated the laugh every time you spoke of factory or sanctioning body. Think when they were doing it, it was a run what you brung. What ever they had sitting in the yard. In this case it's your car, do what you wanna do. I'm just along for the ride. No right or wrong.
"Think when they were doing it, it was a run what you brung." Yep, that was the rulings in the day. **On a single page.** Ha !
Plasma cutter is the best thing since sliced bread. lol Love the Redline Rebuild series Davin. Stay safe, God bless.
and
AND
you can slice bread with a plasma cutter
Enjoying this teaching from a highly experienced mechanic. Looks like that firewall might need to be cut out to clear the cylinder heads.
I worked on a 1976 Toyota Corona a friend had. It had an overhead cam. Th cam lobes would roll down to a "pool" of oil & up to a rocker arm.
Because the engine sat tilted back, not flat, the front cam lobe...after some wear...didn't get oil with the "pool" tilted back. It ate out the bottom of the rocker arm and wore the lobe off of the cam. Tilt was something the engine designer didn't factor in. May not apply? but good to remember. Thanks for the videos, guys. I have watched the Model A time-lapse a score of times!
Love the distributor reference! "What were they thinking??"
Some the welds on that car looks like the welds I did in high school metal work class when I was trying to learn to weld with a stick welder. My mig welds today look slightly better😊.
There’s already a million newschool builds and resto mods out there. Show us how the old boys did it!
Ok boomer
Looks to me he is showing us.
Amen, bruddah!!
Besides, it was my understanding he was restoring the car to honor the original builder. Not jazzing it up to new world standards.
@@raulman2473 Simp?
I remember crawling around and in grandpa's dirt track cars out in the sticker bushes, way back in late sixties and seventies. I robbed many parts from those hulks for my first car in, a 57' chevy 2dr post with 6cyl and 3 on the tree. I used many of the engine mount ideas from those chassis to install a 69' 427 dual quad & a M20. They all had a removable cross bar from frame to frame, some had separate engine pads like what you just fabbed, but ALL cars had a U shaped cross bar from side to side with 2 bolts vertical and 1 bolt front to back on each side. All the floor pans had been moved back and boxed in for the clutch bell crank and to get the pedals back to reachable since the seats were moved so far back. I didn't do much to my floor pan, but the bayonet mounts came out and the mid mounts got striped to the rails and boxed,,,and with a one piece trans crossmember that car still flexed between the three mount points violently.
Add a bolt in cross tube to what you've already got done David , and keep the manual clutch linkage, you're' fabbing a better floor pan anyway. Just for your piece of mind.
Glad I'm not the only one saying "Please clean up those welds" I know most of the race cars back then were built with a stick welder and literally just gobbed together... but you have the technology and opportunity to grind out and fix some of those welds. Hydraulic clutches are not a modern invention... that technology existed back then, go for it!
I'm not sure if this happens to everyone , but when I take a pic or vid of a nice looking weld , it looks like bird poop!
I think the oldest hydraulic clutcj I've worked on was a 68 ford truck but im sure they were around prior to even that one
Hydraulic clutches were used back then? Electric cars preceded most IC engine cars but that doesn’t make a modern electric drivetrain appropriate for this build. Sanitizing a period correct survivor is Streetrodding. There is a point where one has to accept a weld as structurally sound and leave it. Without that mentality one would replace every cobbled mod on the car with a catalogue part. Leave it all and use mechanical linkage and whatever was used when the car was built.
Noteworthy mention that back in the day these cars were built out of scrap with whatever could be obtained from junkyards. No mig welders back then either. Over-engineering will be hard not to do which I'm sure you are aware. Backyard mechanics & friends for pit crews worked by lanterns after the working day to get ready to race on the weekends. They were legends in there own right. So happy you guys are saving this car & can't wait to see it finished. Good Luck.
back in the 60,s some people used to race drunk and parts would fall off cars during races. A lot of race cars in Australia during the 60,s 70,s even today are stolen, cars chopped up to build race cars. unfortunately it still goes on. VIN numbers aren,t checked at tracks and are often cut out, love these hagerty builds and really nice detail allways. love it.
great job doing this old car and nice work also.
Wow just wow man let's get it!!! really enjoying this one
Thanks for posting and sharing. Really interesting to hear your narrative of the “creative process,” as the build unfolds in these episodes.
Redline updates make my day!!!
In Davins family, one and three are the black sheep, all we hear about is relative two......
Go with the hydraulic throwout bearing. I'm doing that on two of my builds, '56 Ford Gasser and a '32 Ford Roadster, both Y-Block powered.
Just tossing this out there, but my 1959 F100 came with a hydraulic clutch setup. Could be worth looking into.
right, but this is about two decades older... So, it boils down to *which* period it should be correct to ;)
@@devisionhun I thought the car was put together in that V8 configuration in the early 60s. But I probably need to look back at thatbfirst video to be certain. However if it's a 60s era dirt track car it would era appropriate.
@@ZeGermanHam exactly what I meant... Davin can basically pick and choose what period he wants to make it "correct" to. Like, out of 4-5 decades basically :)
This is one of the coolest builds on RUclips iv been tossing around the idea of turning my rusted out 46 Chevy truck into a 50-70s low fast wide tire possibly moonshine hauling ridge runner old style racing suspension stuff and this is really inspiring me 🇺🇸👍🏁
I like the blooper at the end, 😁
We were using a hydraulic clutch slave cylinders in the mid 60's. Was a common motor swap accessory.
You beat me, I was going to suggest that it's a race car, solid mount that engine and no binding of the clutch linkage. Also, it's a race car, use a hydraulic clutch if you want....
I love a good basket case, but WOW that car is rough.
I look forward to seeing how it comes together.
I’m not sure about this project I’ll hold judgment to the end. Love the show/video. Thank You
Hey Bro. learn from my mistake...You Have to Tie your frame together with a cross member under the Engine or it shakes the truck apart. Jus sayin
Hydraulic option for sure Davin
Happy New Year !!!!!
I've always loved a good cable clutch.
Best of both worlds right?
Works for my veedubs.
And it's nice to have a throttle cable too.
It's amazing how lazy new drive by wire is.
For kicks if you can turn off traction control you'll see how much better throttle response is.
Still won't match a cable though.
As usual, just the facts, no BS.
Beautiful work.
What makes this car special is Snowball Bishop. Any problem you run into, ask "What would Snowball do?"
Typically we used a stock oil pan with a kickout and baffles with a trap door. The pan height from the ground to the bottom of the pan was if you lost a front wheel the pan wouldn't touch the ground
I always set the engine off the carb base on the intake so the carb is level
In Davins family, one and three are the black sheep, all we hear about is relative two......
This Man is Magic 👏🏼👏🏼🇬🇧😎
If you do a lot of stop and go you will love the hydraulic. Occasional use stay with the mechanical linkage, and peroid correct.
I would be inclined to have the rear axle in place before I mocked up the engine but like I’ve heard countless times in all my years pulling wrenches, there’s a hundred ways to do a job and they’re all correct...
Nice work man. Keep it up
Good job !
Also, at times like this there is only one question that MUST be asked and answered
"WHAT WOULD THEY DO AT THE trabant factory?"
My opinion on period correct vs modern convention in this context is if there is a significant safety advantage, go with the modern equivalent. Vis a vis three point belt as opposed to lap/no belt and in this case hydraulic throw out bearing that won’t bind up (if I understand what you were saying correctly).
my 2cents, keep it as close to original and sanctioned as you can. Might be more of a challenge, but that will make the car even more special.
Que lindo proyecto, ya quiero ver terminado. Saludos desde Paraguay
Good stuff! Most enjoyable!!
Four critical measurements I remember was the upper ball joint deal, crank height(measured at center of front..dictated by sanctioning body), carb flange level...and starter ring gear shouldn't hit ground (we ran dry sumps so, this WAS A THING)...also, in amongst all this, LOW AND LEFT...Once all that sorted out, THEN you worried about u joint angles and phasing.Generaly did all this happy crap whilst car was on 10" "elephant" stands,suspension installed, tires, as well... at intended ride height ...using tape measures, straight edges, plumb bobs and digital angle finders.
Go hydraulic!! Make it clean and simple
"Period correct" is a sentimental based phenomena and only worth it if you actually want to afford/budget for it
Sentiment = $ spent and that can get very expensive very quickly!
Get over it.
Hydraulic throw-out is a safety/reliability issue when compared to the very crappy and very compromised Z-bar linkage
Excellent big block mopar 4 speed power
When you started this resto, Tom was with you, he even helped with the initial stripdown. Is he slacking, or have you sent him to look for some more period correct parts?
There is a place for everything and everything in its place.
Was wondering that too.
Pretty sure Tom will be back for the final assembly... working out all the little things can be quite time consuming and as Tom said in the teardown episode this kinda stuff is a little out of his league
I would put heads on the block and a set of headers you are going to use before anything to figure all of the clearance issues. the clutch type those old clutch linkages can be a pain
Old snowball's getting on... just do what works
Go hydraulic, every pice of linkage in a mechanically actuated clutch will have a certain amount of play. I’d want a nice crisp feeling clutch.
Think they should just go ahead and put some cupholders and a touchscreen dash in the damn thing too...?
Sure it'll have a little play , but overall it'll feel nicer than some hydro setup.
Try driving an old car with a throttle cable , then get in your new car and realize how much you lose in response.
I sneeze in my old beast and I spill the coffee I'm holding cause I tickled the gas pedal.
@@MrTheHillfolk yeah I suppose so, my car has a throttle cable, and it’s stretched out to the point my throttle plate won’t open fully.
@@aaronpreston47 yea but I've got a 52 hp wonder with a cable and as slow as it is , it still reacts to your foot when you lift a cheek to toot your horn when you're driving.
Hydraulic. Used some baller kits years ago. Requires adapting quill but saves leg and way easier to set up. We didn't solid mount though.
Leave it as it was for it's historical history
This is a SUPER PROJECT! I miss Tom tho. Did you give him the day off??? ...Newk from Kentucky
I had a Mopar that could leave the clutch pedal jammed on the floor if you gave it a real big rev at the lights. Lots of torque reaction - and embarrassment! With solid engine mounts, that won't matter. I hope your mounts leave enough room for the headers. I'm looking forward to how this turns out.
Hey Davin, Build it anyway you want.
technically it's never been a period correct car it's been modded every time it got a new engine or trans the only period part is the body. so any one complaining over a hydraulic throw out bearing is full of it just bring the car up to date and make it safe Snow Ball will love it.
The booger welds are killing me! Please-please zeus those into shape.
A lot of unknowns. It would be good to know where the axles and steering are going to be.
Cool stuff!
I've lost count on the amount of ''relative to'' has been said in your videos
concentric/hydraulic throwout would be a way to go. could also use a cable setup. would be more mechanically/aesthetically correct, imho. easy to change out when necessary, and low profile for clearance issues.
Hi I would go the path of least resistance and use a hydraulic release bearing
.
I enjoy your builds.
Yup, distributer up in the front where it should be!!
I would put the diff in to establish engine height and angle.
Exhaust may be interesting in the front two cylinders with the motor mounts on the high side of the frame.
440 exhaust is above the head bolts . Should be fine.
a multi-V belt for lifting the engine block? That's a real multi purpose belt! 😜
Great video
I would go with the Z bar clutch linkage, to show how difficult it is to get one right. Anyone can throw a hydraulic set up at a car, but it seems people want to learn new stuff. It's no small feat to get mechanical linkage to work right and have the right feel with out needing to use both feet to push it in and it has to take the abuse of being mashed with all your strength.
Use the Hydraulic setup. It's far superior to everything else. Better feel, and the chatter and vibration from mechanical just beats the crap out of it prematurely. Also I see a lot of gaps in the welds. Whatever is left from before that you end up keeping should just go over them to cap them up.
As far as the clutch the way i would look at it is in the racing world at the time, they used whatever was available that made their life easier so i would go with the hydraulic. If they had the optionback then, they would have used it.
I’d like to see the old school way. Within reason of course.
Don't forget your exhaust from the heads
McLeod has a hydraulic throw out for the A-833... have one in my 1968 Charger... it sat for 8 years while I was away in the USAF and the bearing still works without issue or leaks... just saying.
For the clutch I'd say go hydraulic if the purpose of the car is looks with occasional driving in events. But if you will also be having people drive it to see what an old race car is like, the keep the mechanical clutch.
I was thinking of dropping my ls low in my 35 coupe so i dont have to cut sheetmetal. How low is to low can that be measured from the ground to the oil pan? Could i raise my front end a bit for the correct drive shaft angle? I like your motor mounts is rubber bushings necessary, i did not notice any on yours?
Davin, If the 37 will not have to comply with any racing sanctioning rules, modern or antique other than upgraded safety features, than any modern mods you make like a hydraulic clutch, is just fine. But, I prefer close to original as safely possible.
Take a little brush and smear
petroleum jelly all over the seals....done!
Air tight seal!
When I first started racing we had a zbar set up but after the first season I did away with it and went hydraulic we had so much trouble with the bar set up I know it's not period correct but it made everything so much easier and I still have the first hydro throw out even it's a spare part I would use it in a second
I would like to see the clutch stay period correct for nostalgia reasons.
Yes clean it up. Not like the pickup bed
Slave cylinder and master cylinder for clutch.Had them in a couple of trucks I owned never a problem. 200,000 on the chevy.
The 440 will be a Monsta, as I would have said growing up, But as some stated if you want period correct, a "souped up" Ford flathead would look better but not be as fast as the 440.
Flat head would be v cool.
Run a slave cylinder mounted to the side of the block with either a separate master cylinder or a combination brake/clutch truck master cylinder like we ran in the 60's if you want to be period correct. Also you do realize that body is not a 37 it's either a 39 or 40.
I think if you go with a hydraulic clutch setup, you will no longer be allowed to pee standing up.
yeah that welding pretty ordinary clean it and stick properly
Job one is :) Function
those pesky rear distributors.... It's not like you wouldn't have chopped another hole in the firewall for a little clearance.. Good work getting this old girl going again!
Go hydraulic. Are you trying to be period-correct to the body or to the powertrain? Hydraulic clutch is a fine match to the Mopar engine.
12:25 i guess you decided sparks plus bath towel was a bad idea
Just follow the Smokey Yunick guide to race cars and rules. You’ll do fine.
I think I'm going to start the "relative to" drinking game.😂🤣🍺🍻🍸🥃 Throw one back relative to getting drunk!🤠🤣😂
I absolutely love this show and recommend it to all my gear head friends!👍🤠
Give me a hydraulic clutch any day of the week. If juice brakes work, why not a hydraulic clutch? My Z bar system wore out pivot points, would bind and needed more adjustments than a 2 dollar watch.
i love the mecanic
Not sure I would be happy with the cantilever on those chassis rails. There is going to be a lot of weight on those & zero snubbing from flexible mounts. As they say "if it looks right then it probably is".....the inverse is also true.
You could adapt it to a cable clutch if you dont want to go hydraulic.
Buick would work good also , 455 Buick is only about 55lbs heavier then a small block bow tie with great torque
Im ok with whichever clutch. but to counteract any new bits put in wouldnt it be cool to find use on the car for any of the metal you have cut out
Use the mechanical Z-Bar.
I am not a fan of hydraulics for the clutch, but if it is easier to do it that way then go for it I say.
Please keep the clutch linkage original! There's probably a million videos of people installing modern hydro clutches, you might be the only one with an old school mechanical linkage.
How about a hydraulic slave cylinder like Ford used in the late 50s and early 60s for the clutch.