Chris Gear 2 wasn’t a mistake, you can’t run Gear 1 on non-K CPUs, this was a look at memory performance and memory options using a budget Intel CPU, I need you to acknowledge and understand that point before proceeding. Non-K CPUs don’t support overclocking and therefore you can’t increase the SA voltage to achieve Gear 1 mode above 3600. Ideally I should have tested a 3600 CL14 kit though expect it to be only slightly faster than the DR 3200 kit already shown. Like FameChaser you’ve completely misunderstood the content and taken the testing out of context. This content had nothing to do with tuned memory and it didn’t pretend to. So your tuned results are not only out of context, they're not even possible on non-K CPUs. Before you criticise me you should understand these basics. I’m also not saying DDR5 is cheaper nor faster than DDR4, I’m suggesting that cheap DDR5 could offer a better upgrade path should lower latency DDR5 be available in a year at much lower prices. Anyway I’m done with this, I’ll revisit it in 6-12 months to see where things are at. Both yourself and FameChaser need to stop with these lazy half arsed reaction videos and make your own content, that is if either of you actually want to grow your channels. I’ll continue to put in the hard yards, feel free to make cheap content off the back of it if you wish. Good luck boys, cya.
Put in the hard yards? Lol u couldn't tune a system to save ur life. It's unknowledgeable tech tubers like yourself who keep enthusiasts ignorant to the benefits of tuning. Maybe you don't know how to tune. Maybe you're just lazy. But it's important to acknowledge what is possible. But that would take time. And you'd rather just run 40 game benchmarks of stock components all day long. Swap a single component and do it all over again.
"I’m also not saying DDR5 is cheaper nor faster than DDR4, I’m suggesting that cheap DDR5 could offer a better upgrade path should lower latency DDR5 be available in a year at much lower prices." I thought your video made this point very clearly myself. At this time unless you want a balls-to-the-wall PC without spending a hefty premium on 6400 DDR5 then DDR4 is your go-to, otherwise get DDR5 for the upgradability. It's a sensible look at facts nothing more.
@@mylittlepwny3447 we don't need any clowns here mate. We've not only provided detailed benchmarks with tuned memory results but we've made easy to follow guides on how to do it.
I never got the feeling Steve was "pushing" ddr5 on me he was answering a question which I was actually wondering about which was can I just use the cheap crucial ddr5 in my new am5 system. The just use ddr4 system means nothing to someone like me buying an am5 system. Steve is actually being helpful by helping me make choices for my new am5 system. You saying don't buy am5 is not helpful to me at all.
Steve's video was about budget intel CPU's. We have no clue how DDR5 will perform on early AM5 boards if you don't plan on getting X3D that will mitigate that latency hit.
YOU are not everyone. This is for all those who are thinking of upgrading and got told by Steve's video that ddr4 is just waaaay inferior which aint true. Don't meassure the value of information just by how helpful it is to you in particular.
@@riczz4641 Except he never said DDR4 was way inferior at all and he showed the numbers that proved otherwise. The point was that the price is such that budget DDR5 makes sense whereas a year ago it didn't. YOU are not everyone. Some people actually have the mental ability to understand basic concepts instead twisting them and inserting their own biases into everything.
@@vaudou_ Yeah he was literally saying the cheap DDr5 kit isn't the end of the world if there is any chance you're going to upgrade in the future. While it's not the best option particularly in reference to the Intel platform, it's still one less thing to eventually replace. Memory will get better and more affordable, and many 13th Gen chips will be a reasonable upgrade over a 12100. That DDR4 is going to be useless with 14th Gen. Technology is moving forward, and we have examples already of DDR5 making a huge difference in a couple titles. Using the old stuff to say it doesn't matter is asinine. It's that using cheap DDR5 isn't so detrimental to older titles, that by the time more games see the benefit you don't have to replace the board too. From an AMD POV, the AM5 platform has somewhere to go, and will likely have at least 3 generations of CPUs. Pre -Zen3 AM4 users are swimming in upgrade options offering 20%+ more performance, and that user already settled on not having the absolute best. The 5800X3D at and below it's MSRP is cheap and easy for the perf bump if you're already on AM4. That doesn't make it great idea to buy in new as an EOL platform, where also you're investing DDR4 with no place to go. Anyone in position to consider AM5, has something way worse or nothing, and will likely still save over the life of the board being able to swap to which ever single other component makes sense in the future. Given the GPU competition now, today's RTX3090 perf will be lower mid range in price in 2 gens.
@@blkspade23 this guy is choosing the wrong hill to die on. We get it man. you finally learned to overclock b die ram a smidge. (the easiest ram to overclock btw). Doesn't mean that its the end all b all moving forward.
I'll be waiting year or two for things to mature and stabilise before jumping to DDR5. I've recently upgraded from Ryzen 2600 on X370 to a Ryzen 5700x on B550 and couldn't be happier with the level of performance of Zen 3 compared to my previous Zen+ system.
I was fortunate to be able to jump from a Zen1 system to a Zen3 ( 5600G + RTX3060 ) on January this year, and what a massive jump! 😄 No need for DDR5 at all until years from now.
Indeed. The tone of the GoG in this video is insufferable. If I were Steve, I'd take a swing at GoG the next time I saw him. Too many yt channels out there to waste my time on some narcissistic nerd.
@@cactusjackNV You badly miss the point, although I guess I shouldn't be surprised since most of the commenters here are on the spectrum. There's zero need for being catty and arrogant towards another YT creator. That's the problem.
Glad to hear that my DDR4 3600C16 (which OC's to 3800) is a pretty good kit. I was going to upgrade soon because I'm on an old PCIe Gen3 Platform. Now I'm waiting for i5 13600K and getting a DDR4 board to re-use my RAM, which would save a lot on my next upgrade.
It seemed the point of Steve's video was that you could get cheap ddr5 that was in the ball park with great ddr4 and NOT have to spend the absorbent amount of money for good DDR5 and the motherboard to run it. So if someone wanted to get on board the DDR5 train this was the budget way to get there. He was not invalidating DDR4 or saying people should not use it. With that said, even with your figures the ddr5 is around 10% slower. But isn't the ddr5 more than 10% cheaper? If so it is competitive. I am fine with the education but you and Steve seem to be talking about two different scenarios.
@@christopherjames9843 It certainly appears that GoG had an agenda, and this video was just wrong on so many levels. I'm glad Steve came in here to speak his mind.
Buying DDR5 motherboards now to future-proof is nonsense. Just look at early AM4 motherboards and compare them to X570. You'll see that the later iterations of AM4 can support much higher RAM frequencies. What's more, to get good OC on DDR5 in the future, you need a 2-Dimm motherboard (cheapest 2-Dimm mobo costs over $500). DDR5 is extremely sensitive to signal noise, and 4 Dimm mobos have too much noise, making it impossible to get above 6400mhz. In the future there will be 8000mhz and even 10000mhz DDR5 sticks. You're not getting that speed on current 4-Dimm mobos. Maybe future 4-Dimm mobos get better, but buying them now for future-proofing is nonsense.
@@jacqli69 I want to build a brand new Pc and have the new Ryzen CPU for this you're forced to have a new motherboard which also force you to get ddr5 people will be forced to upgrade as soon as they want a new CPU.
The new generation ought to match the best of the old gen. It looks like you have to spend a lot more money and do a lot more work to beat the old gen. Dealing with all that heat is extra cost and problems with stability.
@@TheGoodOldGamer could you please help me. My CPU is 12700k on z690tuf-d4. I need 32g of ram. I'm choosing from 4x8 single rank b-die or 2x16 dual rank b-die. Both kits tested by seller at 4000 15-15-15-35. I prefer 4x8 for better aesthetic look. Theoretically it will be same performance, but 4 sticks is harder to tune?
@@TheGoodOldGamer Yes I thought DDR5 was more future proof and an air only cooler, I was very bothered by the hot temps with exact same CPU and same all core clock speed CPU ran 10-15C hotter with DDR5 at 6000MHz or faster and was like 8C hotter even at 4800MHz with XMP off. So I went back to DDR4 CL14 3600MHz Samsung B-Die and my 12700K runs much cooler. Why would DDR5 cause CPU to run hotter?? Makes almost no sense.
I think the memory thing is completely overblown. Most people just XMP, most people have setups that are GPU limited and most people are playing with higher setting and higher resolution if they have faster GPUs.
Tuned RAM means less need to upgrade CPU and increases overall platform usability. Plus better 1% & .1% lows make all games more enjoyable. That's why I added the Tuned System in the test when I'm clearly GPU bound. It still helped.
@@TheGoodOldGamer go work after hours in MC Donald's for time you put on tuning and troubleshooting you RAM and you buy better better performance. If you like tuning, do it, but is not worth time or problems which it making. It as you would say that people should be cars with this engine because if you change this and tune this it will have better performance, let me ask, how many people will do it? Your opinion is only your opinion, is not something everybody should do.
@@m_sedziwoj Yeah there is a point at which it's easier to spend more money for the performance. You want the optimal everything. If an extra £60 will give you a big performance boost then probably better to find a way of spending that on your computer.
You were just pushing Intel w/ DDR5 over AMD using DDR4 for the best value setup a couple videos ago. So, I'm a little confused on that. Also, HUB set settings that are one click set that the MAJORITY of users are doing. Also, I'm tired of the fine tuning of RAM talks. Not all sticks, boards CPUs can run the finest of tuning. You even mentioned this in your video, but only said it for DDR5, it also applies to DDR4. Plus, like others have pointed out, the average person is running mid-end GPUS and mid-end CPUs on Motherboards that can't run tweaked RAM timing and Frequency, where none of this even matters.
B series boards allow RAM tuning, If i'm not mistaken. So long as you don't go to crazy speeds, you can tune the RAM decently. I do agree thkugh that most people hit XMP and forget. That doesn't mean everyone is always going to be ignorant and ignore tuning if someone shows them stuff about it. I started learning to extract the most of what I had, what's wrong with showing others?
My main issue with memory OC/tuning is that you get what you think is a stable system, then suddenly a game or program comes your way that just crashes after a while when you try it. You remove your memory OC/tuning and suddenly it's stable and the settings you used turned out not to be as good as you thought. Add CPU and GPU OC into the mix and finding out what's the problem for that specific game/program becomes hours of troubleshooting. This is why I these days don't do any OC just activate XMP and happily lose a few fps knowing that I don't have to worry about stability.
@@Greez1337 And most people should hit XMP and ignore, why? Because this few % of performance is not worth stability problems, which you can't full tests.
@@darreno1450 I see trend that people which support AMD in past become opposition to them, any reason is good enough. In this case maybe because they can now price products as competitors. BTW watch Gamers Nexus video and look at his narrative about AMD and others. And LLT ego go to moon, eg in Tesla Autopilot case he read title of article, that they should change it because someone say so, and he agree not looking at that this person have own software to assist drivers (conflict of interest), and that court in Germany rule that is ok name. BTW any one which know something about air plains, know that this name is used there and do less that what Tesla doing. Anyway maybe Coca Cola should change name, because they currently don't add cocaine to cola (they did at time as it was legal)
First off using RAM that requires an overclock on a locked processor where the system agent is also locked cannot increase the voltage. Therefore you have erroneous numbers from suboptimal performance. Refer to Intel's Article ID: 00008991
Before bashing Zen4 for memory 64ns latency, what you are really bashing is going for a chiplet-based design. Their numbers are in line with Zen3 memory latencies. You get extra latency from checking a larger cache and moving data between the CPU chip and the IO- chip, but mostly from going to a chiplet-based design. I just got that memory latency from Toms Hardware Ryzen 5000 RAM Guide and that's also mostly over 60ns, with one exception of putting DDR4 gear1 with tight timings at 4000mhz which got 58.6ns. Latency is the cost of a chiplet-based design over monolithic, but having that larger cache hides the latency issues mostly.
He was really talking about Intel 11th - 13th gen Saying you wouldn't recommend something like Zen 4 Vcache parts for gaming when those parts are going to stomp on everything would be silly.
@@johndoh5182 What he said about the Zen4 without Vcache would be completely unacceptable for gaming because of memory latency. But what he missed was that they just kept the memory latency pretty much constant from the previous Zen generation while improving other parameters. So it would mean that all Ryzens without Vcache would have been unacceptable for gaming. Zen4 chips without Vcache are as acceptable for gaming as previous Zen chips without Vcache. As I'm not a pure gamer I'm considering Zen4 as an upgrade and it would definitely be misleading that Zen4 would suck at gaming when it should be far better than all the previous zen chips without V-cache and probably be about equal to zen3 with Vcache for gaming. Claiming it would cause terrible stuttering when in reality the latency would be the same or better than previous Zen chips is very misleading. ruclips.net/video/OITNspbqCwg/видео.html
Thats pretty much what i tell my clients. The same has happened pretty much everytime the DDR tech has rolled. I still remember that the DDR2 Kit i had oc OCZ Reapers 1200CL5 running at 1333CL4 that i could only change it after the ddr3 managed to hit about double the speed, and that was cause the mobos wasnt the limitation itself yet, just the memory tech. For the DDR5 to be actually cost-effective, thats gonna take a while, id say around 2 years to mature. And i would pretty much doubt that even Zen4 is to yet be the one be all that they are saying to be the best memory controller by far. Thats gonna take imc's to be much more able, mobos design to me changed, topology thinkering and even vrm adapted to new demands that would probably require a next level of energy transmission. But well, lets see. Sorry bout my english, this aint my main language. Good video, i like it!
@@stefan7848 Next year will most likely bem zen4 3d, with 2024 being zen5. Also, youre completing ignoring the most problem as of now which is the imcs/mobos which willl need complete redesigns tô actually be that good of a jump to do
@@stefan7848 Everybody should do what they think its best for them. For my clients theres those of most hardware afficonados that will also pay for memory tuning+cpu/gpu, and for those, okay, ddr5 might be a good bet, while going ALL out. Other than those, i would highly recomend just sticking with ddr4 still.
@@RaviPires like i buyed ddr3 sistem in 2017, then i didnt know anything in pc building now i still dont know so i look for informations xd i dont wana buy ddr4 at end of the cicle like i did with ddr3
Luck of the draw maybe? I see a lot of people doing well with DDR5, msyelf included. Got a very normal ITX motherbaord (B660I Strix) and a very normal DDR5 kit (Corsairs DDR5-5600 C36 Vengeance, comes with Samsung B-Die), and with just a tad of effort, have it running at 6200MHz, 32-34-34-48 1T, G2 at 1.35V. It has been working rock-solid, whatever stability test you can think of, I put it trhough it without issue. Of course... spending hours of RAM OCing isn't everyones cup of tea... it's time-consuming and annoying AF. Point is, you suggesting you need a $400 motherboard and $350 RAM kit for DDR5 to start making sense "performance-wise" is very much incorrect.
This vid explained it all to me from the set it & forget it XMP RAM to DDR5. I used to be an OC'er way back in the 90s, but fell away from it save for bumping Intel i5s a few hundred MHz every few years. And then Ryzen came along with all its cores, but essentially could not be OC'd. It's just been a year or 2 now that I've become interested in tuning RAM and have mostly depended on Steve over at HuB. Thank you so much for this and other vids re Gears and whatnot. You've reawakened my passion for OCing.
All you had to do, was to reach out to HUB to clarify a few things in private Because all you did was try to attack their credibility You've had a few hot takes recently, not sure what you're trying to prove? maybe you were upset when he said your 5800x3d conclusion wasn't the best conclusion on the matter? and tried to get one back I guess you only know that answer to that
I think this is case then he don't agree, and any argument would not change his mind, because he know better. Where are people like this. Sad but true.
A really inexpensive upgrade would be 3000 series CPU and nothing else. Guaranteed to work with all your existing system. 5000 series I would probably recommend a B450 or B550 motherboard and some faster RAM. At the point of buying a new motherboard you should check what Intel has to offer. PS Zen 1+ to Zen 2 is an amazing upgrade. It makes a bigger difference to your experience than Zen 2 to Zen 3.
"Makes sense for production but doesn't make sense for gaming." Huh???? Unless you are a hard core competitive gamer (which is the majority of people out there) who gives a flip? There is nothing wrong with DDR5 except the "latency," which is a very very minor complaint. No need for a 30 min video, I could have gotten my wine and cheese in 2 minutes.
Normal people don’t know what tuning ram means Avg person like me only do XMP If i explain this to the people of my country,nobody bats an eye So,what i can advise is just get a pair of 3200mhz if u need ddr4,while for those wanting to early adopt am5/ddr5 just save up for 6000mhz
The 4 and 6 core Alder-Lake F skew chips only need ddr5 6200 to be maxed out. They have a different die and dont have to go around all the e-cores and lose latency.. I have a Z690i Unify and a $130 Oloy DDR5 5600 Samsung kit and Im getting 42-47ns at 5900-6200mhz. You should look into that for content. I downloaded the BCLK OC bios and Im getting 12700k performance out of a 4 core cpu @ 5.2ghz and 6200 CL34. I know that board is expensive but its still fun to get that much power from a small 4 core cpu. Love the channel bro!
l I don't know if you just don't understand how AIDA works or it’s malice. Your latency is not real. AIDA and IMLC can’t correctly determine the latency when ocing with bclk. You can easily check this if you spin up bclk multiplier and decrease the core multiplier to get same cpu frequency. For example 40 core multiplayer and 100 bclk (ie stock) will give you around 62 ns (5800 33-32-32-44), but 27 and 150 will result in 42 ns (5700 33-32-32-44) Your real latency is around 54-57 ns.
@@JimCareyMulligan SO since your so badass what is my latency at 6400 cl32? I'm not sure if you've ever used this new bclk oc method with the Alder Lake chips, but it doesn't work the same as the older chips. Tell me why I gain gaming, and 3dmark scores just by increasing the bclk and putting everything back to stock numbers i.e. 130 bclk with stock voltages memory speed and cpu speed. If you were correct then gains from just tuning bclk would be impossible, 3dmark and games don't give a shit about bclk percentages..
So you say Steve and yourself should have a chat, but then you put out a video like this that serves as nothing more than a hit piece to flame conflict. You could've easily discussed all this with him in private before putting this out. But i guess that wouldn't get the clicks you're after.
You guys might as well stick with consoles by then lol who cares about DDR5 it wasn't ready to begin with it's always the same crap go play some games instead of bickering whose right
Well in that case his poor combination of components skewed the results. If the DDR4 4000 was effectively incompatible with his CPU but limped along at reduced performance it was not a fair test. It would be like comparing two systems where one automatically switched on XMP and the other defaulted to low settings, not a realistic comparison.
@@wayland7150 Imo I don't think people are actually going to be tuning on non-k cpus. If you're intention was to oc and tune why would you go with the CPU sku that doesn't or is extremely limited for it?
I have 2 custom computers each with a 16GB kit of DDR4. Why would I move to DDR5? Give it two years before I might consider it. When it's well adopted and the price is down and all the bugs and kinks are worked out and it's starting to be optimized.
I'm not trying to start crap but you are comparing a 12600k to a 12100 which is about as not apples to apples as you can get. Considering one allows overclocking and the other does not. You can't say hub and Steve didn't know what he was doing when you aren't even attempting to compare apples to apples that is where your opinion and therefore your video are misleading.
I'm unsubscribing from GoG. Sad, as he put out some really good content three years ago when I subbed to him. But now all he puts out is these rather suspicious looking, sometimes almost childish, videos of misinformation. The view counts suggest otherwise.
Correct. But ddr4 4000 at gear one likely faster than the ddr5. But he was in gear two cause non k cpus have locked system agent voltage which you would need at least 1.25-1.3v to run ddr4 4000 gear one. A non k cpu maxes at 0.9-0.950v. A lot of cpus won’t even run that. That’s why hub video is misleading.
@@killerrf no HUBs video was not misleading for the cpu they were using and the way they were using it. If they had said ddr5 beats ddr4 no matter the cpu then it would be but for Chris to come out and say their video was a lie and he didn't even acknowledge that the 12100 could only run gear 2 and the way Steve were testing it was correct is misleading.
@@stevenbean4275 I have to agree with you 100% here. Changing the CPU completely invalidates the entire point of the video and GoG might as well be blowing smoke because that's about as useful as this video is. Steve clearly gave an example of a few pieces of hardware and the results for that specific hardware. Nothing less, nothing more. Plain and simple. The GoG makes this off the wall video. Yes, we understand gear 1, tune, hop on one foot while rubbing belly and patting head. That's not the point of the original video. I use to like GoG but now he just seems annoying and click bait. I'll be unsubscribing and clicking that little "do not suggest this channel" button. It's a waste of time anymore.
@@killerrf the intention of HUB was testing and comparing budget configurations, which obviously means cheap CPU to see how DDR5 performs in such scenario and the still somewhat increased cost can be justified (or not). How on Earth can this be missed and then judging the content based on such an error?
@@WCIIIReiniger yeah, I can understand that. But like him or not it doesn’t change the fact HUB made the 2nd video bc he put out his initial reaction, and this was a back and forth between them in those comment sections, and almost everything Chris said was the same Jufes said this morning, including the offer to help. It would be surprising, though not impossible, that Chris wasn’t aware of that and didn’t make a brief acknowledgement.
@@A-A-Ron25 I watched his video after you mentioned it earlier today. Although I still don't like his attitude from a technical perspective he seems to be right and puts out similar content as Chris. To be honest it might be that Chris watched Jufes' video and was influenced by it, but I think it was okay not mentioning it. Chris put his own work and thoughts into this video and its not like "Graphically Challenged" or "Gamer Meld" who often read the news that other people worked out and put on the internet. I am okay with "Graphically Challenged" being on the podcast with Chris and Paul, but his own videos were quite pointless when I watched them like a year ago.
I get trying to prove a point but going as far as putting a facepalm emoji on HWUB video is just plain disrespectful.... then going on in the video saying "help out"... dont be that two faced guy please. Either you choose to be aggresive and stick with it or be completely neutral about it without calling other out. As most know being called out is far from being respectful.
You’re missing the point, hub should’ve stated that 4000 was in gear 2 thus performance is greatly hindered. That’s the point either Steve is incompetent or pushing an agenda. Simple.
Also you’re wrong about hub being closer to reality as well because a 3600 c14 xmp kit will performs better than the ddr5 kit used…. Cmon man stop cucking for big techtubers
@@wsv8818 I agree, I was thinking about looking at ecc for my next build. I remember running windows 2000 and not having to restart my computer for 6 months. Just about every computer I own will crash once I a week if I am working it hard. I feel like these systems are becoming less stable.
@@Cremepi he's clearly not incompetent. And clearly the new and platform will be ddr5 only, no it's not like if you have to build a new AMD pc you'll have any other option, so they are preparing the road for that. Everyone's got an agenda
I’m a Zen 4 customer for RPCS3. X3D didn’t make any difference for RPCS3 with Zen 3, is it expected to make a difference with Zen 4? I didn’t think memory latency was a significant factor for RPCS3 performance, am I wrong?
I play Wipeout HD on RPCS3. It's quite heavy on my Linux Mint RYZEN 9 5900X hitting it at 25%. It's a lot better on this than on a 5600X. GPU is an R9 FuryX. GPU is not a bottleneck in RPCS3, CPU is. The game plays very well hitting 300FPS unlocked but I lock it at 60. When you say X3D made no difference does this mean you are experiencing some sort of performance problem? What difference did you expect it to make? You know that with faster memory access (X3D) that the CPU will work harder and show a higher % CPU. You know also the X3D is clocked slower so will show higher CPU usage doing the same thing as a standard 5800X. This was why those Bulldozer CPUs were so bad, not because they did not have the performance capability but you could not feed them fast enough to make them 100% busy. Zen 1 has a similar problem.
@@wayland7150 no issues in games that are supposed to work well, but like GoWIII could run better and it had no improvement on 5800X3D vs 5800X. But in this vid he recommended RPCS3 users wait for Zen 4 3D. To me it sounds like CPU perf is the only limiting factor hardware-wise for RPCS3 right now and V-cache or high performance DDR4/5 won’t make a difference but it sounds like he disagrees
Its definitely the time to just keep what you have and see how AM5 and Z790 boards shake out. If you have to build something now DDR4 is still fine as a budget option since most budget builders are going to be GPU limited anyway.
What he is saying is you can't by something now that beats DDR4 and it won't beat DDR4 in future. By the time DDR5 beats DDR4 you'd be changing your motherboard and RAM to take advantage of that. The only reason to buy DDR5 is you need it for Zen 4. So buying DDR4 or DDR5 today locks you into old tech except DDR4 is cheaper and faster.
@@wayland7150 gear 1 is not always faster then gear 2, when both options are out for 13th gen, and we get the next gen of GPUs from AMD/Nvidia, that is when you want to build a PC, and go with all new tech, ditch DDR4
Chris this is a weird video to put out. It sounds like you should have talked to Steve in private first in order to clarify his testing methods and conclusions. Not saying Steve is right and you're wrong, but the drama-bait and condescending tone makes it feel like the purpose of this video was for views and attention rather than education. Smart creators working together benefits the community far more than cheap infighting.
Getting ready to build a new PC for music production, planning on using a 13700k processor with minimal overclocking, undervolted and air cooled, what are optimal ram speeds for ddr4 and ddr5 and which should I use?
For production I would suggest get DDR4 3200 or 3600 with CL16 as that is often the cheapest option and invest in a large enough NVMe SSD storage with good transfer speed (read and write speed) as that will probably be more important then have the fastest RAM you can get. Mount NVMe SSD on motherboard (M2 slot) with lanes close to CPU (read manual for motherboard as that might be different from brand and motherboard) to get most out of PCI express speed. Make sure that NVMe SSD will not get too hot (have fans in case that also will blow some around that area on motherboard).
Loved the video. Question: Do you recommend any practical cheap RAM cooler that sells in Europe (Portugal)? I did a RAM overclock (8gb sr Hynix 1jr) , however it overheats. It´s only TM5/OCCT + iGPU stable when I leave the side panel open, or when I ramp up fans a lot, which is not practical. I´m thinking of one of those 2x60mm fans that attach on the dimms and sells on aliexpress for 25euros or so, no idea if that´s effective or not. EDIT: I only did 50mv above xmp, so that should be fine, but clock is really high (4133) because it´s an APU (5600g) which can pretty much do whatever fclk (4133/2 is really easy and if the RAM could handle it, it would do higher). Sadly, I it doesn´t have temp sensors, I can just tell it´s being temp sensitive based on the stability with side panel open or fans running at 70% (which is way too much for me)
One note: stuttering from latency dif between ddr4 and ddr5 shouldn't be directly comparable, as ddr5 dual channel functions like ddr4 quad channel (just with half the channel width per channel), and different levels of access have improved latencies vs ddr4 iirc. But yeah, they really should not have used gear 2 ddr4..
You can fuck about with coolers all you want an be frustrated or just buy the Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 for about $100 and be done with it. It will give you the best cooling for gaming on either the Intel or AMD (for AMD it has an offset mount included). For Intel you will probably need to buy the frame to replace the CPU mount for between $14 and $35. Without replacing the mounting for your CPU on Intel Alder Lake boards you memory config will be dependant on how lucky you are to get you CPU seated properly. Nonetheless, the cooler I recommended is the best AIO on the market at the moment and also the cheapest in its class
without watching this video, but having watched your previous 4 V 5 video, my guess is memory tuning is critical to get optimum performance. I only use XMP with intel and PBO/rebar with AMD. So not the in depth tuning you did/do.
Hi, very interesting vídeo, I also watched the HUB video with skepticism and thought that something strange was going on. Anyway, I noticed a small mistake in you "Excel" table for the results of the HUB video, in SOTTR, the 1% Lows and Avg are exchanged, so the supposedly lead of 3200C14 may be still higher (I did not do the math myself) at leas in 1%Low
In general really like your content, this video had some really good information. It just came across a little bit condescending, especially towards Steve and Co. Although sure that wasn’t your intent, keep up the good work
I'm sure it was his intent, this guy has been doing this for the last few videos, even to the point of implying that he was one of the few that did CPU tests correctly.
Yup, HP V10 hard to find here. Like the Acer Predator Apollo RGB Samsung b die kit. Gskill flare x and Ripjaws V look easier to get in the UK. Not sure which versions is b die or sk hynix.
@@theoldpcgamer77 Decent, crazy you have to pay so much more for CL14 ram. HP V10, Kitguru said it only has 5 year warranty i thought ram has limited lifetime warranty.
Nope, they did not actually state that. Yet again you made a false claim and pretty much got destroyed by the facts. You could have very easily avoided looking bad by simply sticking to the facts instead of lying about context. Can't even do something that simple.
Well even the unlocked K processors while most can run DDR4 4000 in Gear 1, they do not by default if you just set XMP, they go to Gear 2. You need to manually tune to Gear 1. So many tests comparing DDR4 4000 to high speed DDR5, no mention on whether they just XMP or tuned it to Gear 1. Where as non-K CPUs do not have that ability. Though DDR4 3600 and below XMP I believe on most if not all mobos defaults to Gear 1.
ummmmmm, you cannot directly compare these two, at all, considering that you are not using a 12100. you are also using an unlocked cpu. you can critisize if you want, but you cannot go and change up testing methods, because you did, and then claim it as you proved him wrong. this is almost as bad as your "intel is better than AMD cause i ran everything at 720p and resolution scaling, just like everyone else does so these tests make perfect sense"
Wait I have GSkill Trident Z NEO RGB 3600 CL14 8g x 4 kit and they are Samsung B Die. Are you saying that HP kit that uses the same Samsung Die basically is somehow better than the set I have? Sorry but I'm kind of shocked that apparently that HP kit is somehow better than one of the best DDR4 kits known to exist a year or so ago when I bought it. Mine is the GSkill Trident Z NEO RGB 3600 CL14 that everyone raved about back then and it is Samsung B Die but I really need some clarification. Thanks...
HP V10 is such a stellar kit. I'm glad I could just transfer it to my 13700k. 3800 cl14-14-12-24 with 260 trfc and lowest possible sub timings it's definitely beating a lot of high end ddr5 kits in games.
Why again do you need a $400 Mainboard to run ddr5 at high speeds? I thought the memory controller was inside the CPU? Or am i mixing something up? Somehow the Mainboard chipset locks memory OC on H610 boards i think. So what is the mainboards role in all these memory matters and what is purely the CPU's limits?
I think you are failing to grasp the point Steve #hardwareunbox was making. His recommendation was not so much about superior perfomance of DDR5. It was about the upgrade path. If I follow your advice, I'll buy a DDR4 system and net myself 10% additional perfomance in SOME games. And lets be honest on a budget system that usually equates to a few extra frames. The next time I upgrade I most definitely would have to buy DDR5 memory in additon to all the other components. If I buy DDR5 now, even if it is below the 7600 sweetspot you speak of, I won't need to buy memory for my next upgrade, saving me $120-$200 on my future build. Anyone buying a Core i3 is very price sensative. I am willing to bet that saving $120-$200 on a future build trumps foregoing a few frames.
Exactly, this.. I can understand difference of opinion, but this video went about it the wrong way, and as you said, he failed to grasp the rather simple point Steve put out. All to just get a few clicks/views. I also agree with you that my next build regardless if it is Raptor Lake or Zen 4, will be DDR5, not point in not getting the current latest memory specifications.
I watched this video and I have no freaking clue how to buy RAM to maximize my CPU. None at all. Gear one and two? Did I miss something? I believe what is being said but find it totally unhelpful when I want to buy some RAM. What magic numbers do I need to tweak to dramatically improve memory performance?
I have a 3600 overclocked to 4.4GHz @ 1.365v. I then overclocked my RAM from 3200MHz 16 18 18 38 tRC 54 tRFC 430 @ 1.35v to 3800MHz 16 18 19 20 tRC 56 tRFC 500. +20 fps in Deep Rock Galactic and overall much higher GPU utilization in games.
I'd like to see what 3 settings you changed to tune in your ram, I bought the 4400 viper kit for my 10850k. Could only get it to 3800 cl 16 16 16 36 stable at 45ns. I'm using 4 sticks so I guess this maybe the best speeds I can get.
i would like to get some tip if possible... i have a g.skill 2x32gb SK Hynix ram with specs, 3600MT/s and CL 18-22-22-42 and i would like to tinker with it... my latency unfortunately according to AIDA benchmark tab is 67ms and i have it on Gear 1and my CPU is the i7 12700k with the Asus Z690 TUF WIFI mobo... where should i start with SK Hynix modules because it seems that are more sensitive compare to samsung b-die... thanks in advance...
Still don't have any idea what you're on about with those gears. Are you talking about in the bios? My bios don't have anything that says 'gear' on it. Did I miss it?
Surprising that this is coming up before the launch of the new platforms. DDR5 can't have matured if the platforms that will primarily support DDR5 aren't out yet! A bit pre-emptive by HUB in my opinion. Thanks for the testing, GoG! Would love to see more compares with different memory rank configurations after the new platforms are released. Take it easy too, enjoy your passion.
There are other reviewers who say they want to benchmark what DDR5 can do today ahead of the imminent launch of AM5. That seems wise to me. It makes sense to do this using Alderlake because it handles DDR4 and DDR5 so a fair comparison.
@@wayland7150 Numbers are great, and I'm glad we can test both beforehand to get an rough idea. But recommending to hop on the DDR5 platform ahead of Intel and AMD releasing motherboards more specifically designed for DDR5 is just sleazy.
@@wayland7150 Then why don't they? It's all available right now. There has been nothing stopping them. No one is denying it's more expensive, but with AMD requiring it, it will drop. It's already dropping. I have seen 32GB kits of 5800-6200 for $175 open box.
Haven't seen HWU video, but I do share the view that at this moment is still at the crossroad of not yet being in a position as a true contender to beat the established DDR4 on price/perf. This will change of course in time. Regarding @23:00. Have read some user feedback on this Kingston kit, mentioning that on some AM4 400 boards it has some stability issues. I had been contemplating this kit for my final upgrade, currently put on hold, on my MSI B450 Tom. Max coupled with an upgrade to a R7 5700X. If anyone is running this Kingston kit without issues on a B450 for instance I would really like to know, if it's a Tom. Max I'm even more interested in someones experience when it is stable for you.
As i said on the HUB video is that DDR5 is good for most general user's right now but my DDR4 Trident Royal Elite cl14 4000Hz RAM is STILL faster than the best DDR5 out right now. Just grab a calculator and do the math. DDR5 is really good out of the gate but still not better than the maturity of last gen rn.
@@mileskt9232 I'm already on ddr5 6200 cl36 with Alder lake cpu. My platform upgrade is done for me now. Nvme ssd, W11, new cpu cooler. I won't be changing platform now for 3yrs.
Biggest gain in fps will be video card. Mem tuning can help but it can take weeks to get stable.. frustrating when your programs crash out of the blue. Not like cpu tuning where you seem to hit a wall where it works or doesn’t.
I see people misunderstanding about dd5 just like people misunderstand Team-Blue and Team-Red 😐 Your typical buyer is not gonna adjust your system so that's why most people go with Team-Red. Team-Blue most people do adjust their system so there goes one of the bigger differences
@@abdullahdanze2061 you want the absolute max performance out of your system lol other than that most people's PCs are just like consoles stuck whatever their clocked at is that what PCs are? Just stick with console and be done and game not that hard then again most people are just lazy
hopefully May next year-ish DDR 5 is gonna be normal prices, and with me being a 3D artist, i could probably/definately use the speed, hopefully a 7950X being able to use the DDR5 to its fullest, and all these problems solved by then.
Totally agree, DDR5 expensive, bugs, not so great compared to DDR 4 comparing to price to performace, also not enough companys are on board yet to go full DDR 5 systems
Im pretty sure steves point was not at all for people that go and "tweak " ram timings lol. who the hell does that maybe 0.1% of users. He just showd some results of stok stuff you buy and put in.
The DDR4 4000 RAM he chose was wrong for the CPU he was using. It was limping along. Choosing RAM that will perform badly and then not trying to correct that maybe fair if you're trying to show mistakes people make but an unfair showing of DDR4. Hardware Unboxed have a habit of mismatching components, usually for a reason. They pair a super powerful CPU with various GPUs for comparison. This may seem fair but results can be reversed in a system with a mid power CPU because of the load the driver puts on the CPU.
@@wayland7150 IT seems to do not understand HuB testing methodology. I suggest you ask them why they do what you are criticizing them for, they can probably educate you on their reasons.
@@roidman1983 I know the point of Steve's video. Buy DDR5 now because it's future proof. He is wrong on three count's first that it matches DDR4 performance, second that it matches DDR4 price and third that the faster DDR5 will work in the board and CPU bought today. In order to do so he deliberately made a poor match with DDR4 4000 and a 12100. I self righteous because I'm right and not taking this shit of Steve's you're condoning.
@@wayland7150 Again, your self-righteousness blinds you. It seems like the only thing you payed attention to in the video were the graphs, and completely ignored everything Steve said in the video. He never said buy DDR5 now, he only said since the prices for DDR5 have lowered enough in price it might be something someone who's doing a new "PC build" should consider as an option. That's all he said, but yet your just so hell bent on being right. And as for him using the i3 12100 for the test, the title of the video was "DDR5 For BUDGET CPUs, Does It Make Sense Now? Core i3-12100", the whole point of the video was to test the i3 12100 with different memory configurations to see what made sense to pair with the i3 12100. That was it, that was the point of the video. But instead ignorant people got triggered by the graphs and ignored everything else.
Bandwith is more important than latency. If you work in video editing and software that makes use of high cores, you want maximum data stream, whatever the latency. IMO games don't relay as much on ram latency as cpu or gpu. At the end of the day it's about how much money you wanna spend. If you don't demand the max of the max you can have double performance per dollar with last year's hardware with cheap and fast DDR4. And I doubt software is always optimised to make best use of latest hardware, it catches up in time.
If you're a gamer, don't get DDR4 right now. It makes zero sense to get a DDR4 motherboard right now unless you upgrade every year. I agree with HUB, and he made it very clear in his videos, that he's not recommending people with DDR4 switch to DDR5. He is saying it makes no sense to buy a DDR4 platform anymore. So your point is moot. If you're buying a platform now, buy DDR5 and when ram matures, get that if you need it. Besides, ram is rarely the bottleneck.
@@kerim_og_9378 would you recommend a competitive gamer building a system in October to buy a DDR4 platform? Sure the elite DDR4 would be needed to compete with the mid range (of today's ddr5) at all. But in 2 years DDR5 8000 will be available so... It's dumb to buy a DDR4 platform now.
@@torfinnjohnsrud793 if ur building today yes i'd still recommend ddr4 over ddr5 because for the price right now you get much better performance with some good 200$ ddr4 sticks, to even match the ddr4 performance u need high expensive ddr5 sticks + a mobo that can run very high frequency, for example: U need a ddr5 board for 400-500$ + 7000 ddr5 for 300$ to even MATCH in performance a ddr4 200$ board + 200$ sticks Its right now 800 vs 400$ dollars Like Chris said, if Zen 4 3d comes out, yea then u can get some cheap boards & ddr5 sticks since the ddr5 frequency doesnt matter that much as we have seen with the 5800x3d The best price for (Gaming) performance this year will be either a cheap z690 board + b die ddr4 + raptor lake k cpu + overclock, or u wait till zen4 release the 5800x3d might drop in price + a cheap b550 board for 110$ and the cheapest ddr4 u can get With zen4 + ddr5 @ 6000 (which is claimed by amd to be the sweetspot i doubt that it will match raptor lake performance with some highspeed b dies And yeah in 2 years ddr5 8000 might be affordable but im not building a system now to get some good stuff in the next years, most of the gamers doesnt want to wait even till next year Also its important to know what is the goal Right now a 12900k + ddr4 (which will be even better with raptorlake) or the 5800x3d wont be the bottleneck in like 99% of the games
Unless you are getting a 4090 it is still the best bang for buck to build on AM4 or Alderlake with DDR4 (if you get the right memory). But for most people who don't know their XMP from a door then getting whatever suits your budget is the way to go as the differences are marginal. We are enthusiasts so there will always be bias vs the average user.
@@Mopantsu Until we see the performance of RL and Zen 4, it's way too early to make any determination on the best way forward. And to be honest, for the old games that GoG like to test, you don't even need Rocket Lake, much less AL.
I have 5800x and 4x8 patriot viper 4400cl19. I suck at oc but i got my kits up to 54,5-54,7 ns latency. I run it at only 3733 cl 16-16-16-32-48 and trfc 298. I tuned all timing a little bit. I can't even post 3800 with 4 sticks, cl 14 didn't work either due to ram overheating. I tried disabling gear down mode and manually set it to cl 15 but i couldn't get testmem5 errors away. I'm still happy with my ram. I only paid 150 bucks for all 4 sticks
That's really not bad at all. My 5600x and 5800x both capped at 3733 running 1:1. You have to be somewhat lucky to get 3800, and you need to be lottery winner to get 4000-4133
currently i am running an r9-270 2 gb with an i7-4790 non k. i am thinking heavily on the AM4 system, not for super performance, but for the upgradability. the problem with zen 3 motherboards, is that the 5000 series cpus are likely the last generation that will go with the ddr4 motherboards. in general, i run a 1080p 60hz monitor with plans to upgrade to 4k 120 in a few years, after the 8000 series of gpus are released. i don't know how much stuttering the ddr5 is, but i imagine it is still quite small when gaming at 1080 with slower memory, and running a 6600xt, right?
You need to plan less and do more. Get an AM4 motherboard like a B450 or B550, chuck some RAM and a CPU in it and up grade your computer. There is no socket with more upgradability than AM4 and may never be again. You could buy a RZYEN 5 3600 which would thrash your i7 and still have several massive upgrades ahead of you. Dreaming of Alderlake or AM5 is getting you nowhere. When you've got yourself AM4 then look at VEGA 56 as a seamless replacement of R9 270. It won't be the very latest system but if you need more the upgrades are easy.
@@wayland7150 the processors which go with the am4 mother board will not be relevant in 6 years, especially, the 3600. even if i bought an am4 motherboard, any "upgrades" would all be used parts, which have no warranty, and held back by a motherboard which will be outdated, same with V 56. i would rather wait till kinks are worked out after the launch of the AM5, and get that. get the lower end APU, then upgrade to the 8900x, or 9900x later. i do play a lot of ai heavy games, like oxygen not included, 7 days to die, frostpunk...etc.
Why has the CPU you buy today got to last 6 years? If you buy the next gen motherboard now it won't last 6 years. You can keep old gear going for 10 years or more if you want to. You could upgrade to AM4 today to get a big boost then upgrade to AM5 series when they've fixed the bugs and got the price down. Nothing forces you to wait 6 years, do it now.
If you go with ddr5 anything under 7600mhz is wasted and you must go Hynix if you care about speed. I run my 6400mhz g skills at 7200mhz at 1.48v and still get 52ns latency from stock 64ns. If you go cl14 g.skills at 4000mhz cl14 is on par with my kits. The 4000mhz ddr4 is more expensive and hard to find in Australia so went with ddr5 on a z790 board. DDR4 as you said is the play unless at the super high end. G.SKill have stock 7600mhz kits now. Once these go mainstream this will be the play. Other than that ddr5 is wasted money because ddr4 kits are betting in gaming. 3600cl16 would be what I would recommend to most ppl still. Framechasers runs his home rig I believe at 8400mhz ddr5 and did a 15 hour memory stress test and was stable with no errors.
HUB's DDR4 vs DDR5 comparison is utterly pointless for a few reasons: 1. 12100F with 3090ti is worst case scenario, and very unrealistic to put it kindly. Nobody buying 3090ti would buy a budget CPU like 12100F. If HUB used 12600k, the difference between RAM sticks would be smaller, since 12600k has more cache which means the CPU doesn't need to talk with RAM as much. 2. His test was extremely CPU-bottlenecked. Meanwhile, an overwhelming majority of gamers are GPU-bottlenecked, which means the difference between DDR4 and DDR5 would drop down to 1-3%, which is not noticable with naked eye. It's very obvious HUB is pushing people to DDR5 platforms because AMD is desperate to sell Zen4. AMD know that AM5 platform is extremely expensive and gamers will stay on AM4 for the next 1-2 years.
Chris Gear 2 wasn’t a mistake, you can’t run Gear 1 on non-K CPUs, this was a look at memory performance and memory options using a budget Intel CPU, I need you to acknowledge and understand that point before proceeding.
Non-K CPUs don’t support overclocking and therefore you can’t increase the SA voltage to achieve Gear 1 mode above 3600. Ideally I should have tested a 3600 CL14 kit though expect it to be only slightly faster than the DR 3200 kit already shown.
Like FameChaser you’ve completely misunderstood the content and taken the testing out of context. This content had nothing to do with tuned memory and it didn’t pretend to. So your tuned results are not only out of context, they're not even possible on non-K CPUs. Before you criticise me you should understand these basics.
I’m also not saying DDR5 is cheaper nor faster than DDR4, I’m suggesting that cheap DDR5 could offer a better upgrade path should lower latency DDR5 be available in a year at much lower prices.
Anyway I’m done with this, I’ll revisit it in 6-12 months to see where things are at.
Both yourself and FameChaser need to stop with these lazy half arsed reaction videos and make your own content, that is if either of you actually want to grow your channels. I’ll continue to put in the hard yards, feel free to make cheap content off the back of it if you wish. Good luck boys, cya.
Well said stevo.
I personally have mixed opinions on the whole situation. I guess we'll see in 6 months what's the situation like with next gen CPUs 🤔
Put in the hard yards? Lol u couldn't tune a system to save ur life. It's unknowledgeable tech tubers like yourself who keep enthusiasts ignorant to the benefits of tuning. Maybe you don't know how to tune. Maybe you're just lazy. But it's important to acknowledge what is possible.
But that would take time. And you'd rather just run 40 game benchmarks of stock components all day long. Swap a single component and do it all over again.
"I’m also not saying DDR5 is cheaper nor faster than DDR4, I’m suggesting that cheap DDR5 could offer a better upgrade path should lower latency DDR5 be available in a year at much lower prices."
I thought your video made this point very clearly myself. At this time unless you want a balls-to-the-wall PC without spending a hefty premium on 6400 DDR5 then DDR4 is your go-to, otherwise get DDR5 for the upgradability. It's a sensible look at facts nothing more.
@@mylittlepwny3447 we don't need any clowns here mate. We've not only provided detailed benchmarks with tuned memory results but we've made easy to follow guides on how to do it.
I never got the feeling Steve was "pushing" ddr5 on me he was answering a question which I was actually wondering about which was can I just use the cheap crucial ddr5 in my new am5 system. The just use ddr4 system means nothing to someone like me buying an am5 system. Steve is actually being helpful by helping me make choices for my new am5 system. You saying don't buy am5 is not helpful to me at all.
Steve's video was about budget intel CPU's. We have no clue how DDR5 will perform on early AM5 boards if you don't plan on getting X3D that will mitigate that latency hit.
YOU are not everyone. This is for all those who are thinking of upgrading and got told by Steve's video that ddr4 is just waaaay inferior which aint true.
Don't meassure the value of information just by how helpful it is to you in particular.
@@riczz4641 Except he never said DDR4 was way inferior at all and he showed the numbers that proved otherwise. The point was that the price is such that budget DDR5 makes sense whereas a year ago it didn't. YOU are not everyone. Some people actually have the mental ability to understand basic concepts instead twisting them and inserting their own biases into everything.
@@vaudou_ Yeah he was literally saying the cheap DDr5 kit isn't the end of the world if there is any chance you're going to upgrade in the future. While it's not the best option particularly in reference to the Intel platform, it's still one less thing to eventually replace. Memory will get better and more affordable, and many 13th Gen chips will be a reasonable upgrade over a 12100. That DDR4 is going to be useless with 14th Gen. Technology is moving forward, and we have examples already of DDR5 making a huge difference in a couple titles. Using the old stuff to say it doesn't matter is asinine. It's that using cheap DDR5 isn't so detrimental to older titles, that by the time more games see the benefit you don't have to replace the board too.
From an AMD POV, the AM5 platform has somewhere to go, and will likely have at least 3 generations of CPUs. Pre -Zen3 AM4 users are swimming in upgrade options offering 20%+ more performance, and that user already settled on not having the absolute best. The 5800X3D at and below it's MSRP is cheap and easy for the perf bump if you're already on AM4. That doesn't make it great idea to buy in new as an EOL platform, where also you're investing DDR4 with no place to go. Anyone in position to consider AM5, has something way worse or nothing, and will likely still save over the life of the board being able to swap to which ever single other component makes sense in the future. Given the GPU competition now, today's RTX3090 perf will be lower mid range in price in 2 gens.
@@blkspade23 this guy is choosing the wrong hill to die on. We get it man. you finally learned to overclock b die ram a smidge. (the easiest ram to overclock btw). Doesn't mean that its the end all b all moving forward.
I'll be waiting year or two for things to mature and stabilise before jumping to DDR5. I've recently upgraded from Ryzen 2600 on X370 to a Ryzen 5700x on B550 and couldn't be happier with the level of performance of Zen 3 compared to my previous Zen+ system.
I was fortunate to be able to jump from a Zen1 system to a Zen3 ( 5600G + RTX3060 ) on January this year, and what a massive jump! 😄 No need for DDR5 at all until years from now.
"Okay, I think Steve and I need to have a chat." Seems like that might have been a good idea, perhaps sparing some misunderstanding and drama.
Indeed. The tone of the GoG in this video is insufferable. If I were Steve, I'd take a swing at GoG the next time I saw him. Too many yt channels out there to waste my time on some narcissistic nerd.
@@mrsasshole Right, this guy isn't as cool as he thinks he is. So what he doesn't like the latency on DDR5..who cares?
@@cactusjackNV You badly miss the point, although I guess I shouldn't be surprised since most of the commenters here are on the spectrum.
There's zero need for being catty and arrogant towards another YT creator. That's the problem.
That HP V10 memory is awesome. I got the 3200mhz kit and it boosted to 3600mhz with a voltage bump with 4 sticks. My 5900X likes it.
Glad to hear that my DDR4 3600C16 (which OC's to 3800) is a pretty good kit. I was going to upgrade soon because I'm on an old PCIe Gen3 Platform.
Now I'm waiting for i5 13600K and getting a DDR4 board to re-use my RAM, which would save a lot on my next upgrade.
As am5 uses it, I’m likely to go that direction if the benchmarks are where the leaks say they are.
It seemed the point of Steve's video was that you could get cheap ddr5 that was in the ball park with great ddr4 and NOT have to spend the absorbent amount of money for good DDR5 and the motherboard to run it. So if someone wanted to get on board the DDR5 train this was the budget way to get there. He was not invalidating DDR4 or saying people should not use it. With that said, even with your figures the ddr5 is around 10% slower. But isn't the ddr5 more than 10% cheaper? If so it is competitive. I am fine with the education but you and Steve seem to be talking about two different scenarios.
Well said, but I don't believe this will resonate with the content producer...
@@christopherjames9843 It certainly appears that GoG had an agenda, and this video was just wrong on so many levels. I'm glad Steve came in here to speak his mind.
Aren't you forced to run ddr5 to use the new CPUs and new motherboard needed for it?
Buying DDR5 motherboards now to future-proof is nonsense. Just look at early AM4 motherboards and compare them to X570. You'll see that the later iterations of AM4 can support much higher RAM frequencies.
What's more, to get good OC on DDR5 in the future, you need a 2-Dimm motherboard (cheapest 2-Dimm mobo costs over $500). DDR5 is extremely sensitive to signal noise, and 4 Dimm mobos have too much noise, making it impossible to get above 6400mhz. In the future there will be 8000mhz and even 10000mhz DDR5 sticks. You're not getting that speed on current 4-Dimm mobos. Maybe future 4-Dimm mobos get better, but buying them now for future-proofing is nonsense.
@@jacqli69 I want to build a brand new Pc and have the new Ryzen CPU for this you're forced to have a new motherboard which also force you to get ddr5 people will be forced to upgrade as soon as they want a new CPU.
Very interesting about the additional heat generated using high speed DDR5 on the memory and cpu!
Yeah I didn't expect that. Not at 6400 at least
The new generation ought to match the best of the old gen. It looks like you have to spend a lot more money and do a lot more work to beat the old gen. Dealing with all that heat is extra cost and problems with stability.
@@TheGoodOldGamer could you please help me. My CPU is 12700k on z690tuf-d4. I need 32g of ram. I'm choosing from 4x8 single rank b-die or 2x16 dual rank b-die. Both kits tested by seller at 4000 15-15-15-35. I prefer 4x8 for better aesthetic look. Theoretically it will be same performance, but 4 sticks is harder to tune?
@@TheGoodOldGamer Yes I thought DDR5 was more future proof and an air only cooler, I was very bothered by the hot temps with exact same CPU and same all core clock speed CPU ran 10-15C hotter with DDR5 at 6000MHz or faster and was like 8C hotter even at 4800MHz with XMP off. So I went back to DDR4 CL14 3600MHz Samsung B-Die and my 12700K runs much cooler. Why would DDR5 cause CPU to run hotter?? Makes almost no sense.
I think the memory thing is completely overblown. Most people just XMP, most people have setups that are GPU limited and most people are playing with higher setting and higher resolution if they have faster GPUs.
Even if GPU bound, you can increase the lowest frame rate you get with RAM tuning.
Tuned RAM means less need to upgrade CPU and increases overall platform usability. Plus better 1% & .1% lows make all games more enjoyable. That's why I added the Tuned System in the test when I'm clearly GPU bound. It still helped.
@@TheGoodOldGamer go work after hours in MC Donald's for time you put on tuning and troubleshooting you RAM and you buy better better performance. If you like tuning, do it, but is not worth time or problems which it making. It as you would say that people should be cars with this engine because if you change this and tune this it will have better performance, let me ask, how many people will do it? Your opinion is only your opinion, is not something everybody should do.
@@m_sedziwoj Yeah there is a point at which it's easier to spend more money for the performance. You want the optimal everything. If an extra £60 will give you a big performance boost then probably better to find a way of spending that on your computer.
Do you really think you can get far in life doing what everyone else does all the time?
You were just pushing Intel w/ DDR5 over AMD using DDR4 for the best value setup a couple videos ago. So, I'm a little confused on that. Also, HUB set settings that are one click set that the MAJORITY of users are doing. Also, I'm tired of the fine tuning of RAM talks. Not all sticks, boards CPUs can run the finest of tuning. You even mentioned this in your video, but only said it for DDR5, it also applies to DDR4. Plus, like others have pointed out, the average person is running mid-end GPUS and mid-end CPUs on Motherboards that can't run tweaked RAM timing and Frequency, where none of this even matters.
B series boards allow RAM tuning, If i'm not mistaken. So long as you don't go to crazy speeds, you can tune the RAM decently.
I do agree thkugh that most people hit XMP and forget. That doesn't mean everyone is always going to be ignorant and ignore tuning if someone shows them stuff about it. I started learning to extract the most of what I had, what's wrong with showing others?
Exactly, how all of a sudden DDR5 isn't needed, lol. That's why I can no longer take GoG seriously.
My main issue with memory OC/tuning is that you get what you think is a stable system, then suddenly a game or program comes your way that just crashes after a while when you try it. You remove your memory OC/tuning and suddenly it's stable and the settings you used turned out not to be as good as you thought. Add CPU and GPU OC into the mix and finding out what's the problem for that specific game/program becomes hours of troubleshooting.
This is why I these days don't do any OC just activate XMP and happily lose a few fps knowing that I don't have to worry about stability.
@@Greez1337 And most people should hit XMP and ignore, why? Because this few % of performance is not worth stability problems, which you can't full tests.
@@darreno1450 I see trend that people which support AMD in past become opposition to them, any reason is good enough. In this case maybe because they can now price products as competitors. BTW watch Gamers Nexus video and look at his narrative about AMD and others.
And LLT ego go to moon, eg in Tesla Autopilot case he read title of article, that they should change it because someone say so, and he agree not looking at that this person have own software to assist drivers (conflict of interest), and that court in Germany rule that is ok name. BTW any one which know something about air plains, know that this name is used there and do less that what Tesla doing. Anyway maybe Coca Cola should change name, because they currently don't add cocaine to cola (they did at time as it was legal)
Thank you so much for this video!!! I've been feeling so indecisive on what ram type I should go with.
First off using RAM that requires an overclock on a locked processor where the system agent is also locked cannot increase the voltage. Therefore you have erroneous numbers from suboptimal performance.
Refer to Intel's Article ID: 00008991
Before bashing Zen4 for memory 64ns latency, what you are really bashing is going for a chiplet-based design. Their numbers are in line with Zen3 memory latencies. You get extra latency from checking a larger cache and moving data between the CPU chip and the IO- chip, but mostly from going to a chiplet-based design. I just got that memory latency from Toms Hardware Ryzen 5000 RAM Guide and that's also mostly over 60ns, with one exception of putting DDR4 gear1 with tight timings at 4000mhz which got 58.6ns. Latency is the cost of a chiplet-based design over monolithic, but having that larger cache hides the latency issues mostly.
He was really talking about Intel 11th - 13th gen
Saying you wouldn't recommend something like Zen 4 Vcache parts for gaming when those parts are going to stomp on everything would be silly.
@@johndoh5182 What he said about the Zen4 without Vcache would be completely unacceptable for gaming because of memory latency. But what he missed was that they just kept the memory latency pretty much constant from the previous Zen generation while improving other parameters. So it would mean that all Ryzens without Vcache would have been unacceptable for gaming. Zen4 chips without Vcache are as acceptable for gaming as previous Zen chips without Vcache. As I'm not a pure gamer I'm considering Zen4 as an upgrade and it would definitely be misleading that Zen4 would suck at gaming when it should be far better than all the previous zen chips without V-cache and probably be about equal to zen3 with Vcache for gaming. Claiming it would cause terrible stuttering when in reality the latency would be the same or better than previous Zen chips is very misleading.
ruclips.net/video/OITNspbqCwg/видео.html
This whole video is a load of crap.
Thats pretty much what i tell my clients. The same has happened pretty much everytime the DDR tech has rolled. I still remember that the DDR2 Kit i had oc OCZ Reapers 1200CL5 running at 1333CL4 that i could only change it after the ddr3 managed to hit about double the speed, and that was cause the mobos wasnt the limitation itself yet, just the memory tech. For the DDR5 to be actually cost-effective, thats gonna take a while, id say around 2 years to mature. And i would pretty much doubt that even Zen4 is to yet be the one be all that they are saying to be the best memory controller by far. Thats gonna take imc's to be much more able, mobos design to me changed, topology thinkering and even vrm adapted to new demands that would probably require a next level of energy transmission. But well, lets see. Sorry bout my english, this aint my main language. Good video, i like it!
next year zen 5 will come out right? and cost of ddr5 will be lower, and bugs fixed, so next year will be good to buy not in 2 years
@@stefan7848 Next year will most likely bem zen4 3d, with 2024 being zen5. Also, youre completing ignoring the most problem as of now which is the imcs/mobos which willl need complete redesigns tô actually be that good of a jump to do
@@RaviPires so everyone should wait 2 years before buying pc? or keep buying ddr4 for next 2 years?
@@stefan7848 Everybody should do what they think its best for them. For my clients theres those of most hardware afficonados that will also pay for memory tuning+cpu/gpu, and for those, okay, ddr5 might be a good bet, while going ALL out. Other than those, i would highly recomend just sticking with ddr4 still.
@@RaviPires like i buyed ddr3 sistem in 2017, then i didnt know anything in pc building now i still dont know so i look for informations xd i dont wana buy ddr4 at end of the cicle like i did with ddr3
Luck of the draw maybe? I see a lot of people doing well with DDR5, msyelf included. Got a very normal ITX motherbaord (B660I Strix) and a very normal DDR5 kit (Corsairs DDR5-5600 C36 Vengeance, comes with Samsung B-Die), and with just a tad of effort, have it running at 6200MHz, 32-34-34-48 1T, G2 at 1.35V. It has been working rock-solid, whatever stability test you can think of, I put it trhough it without issue.
Of course... spending hours of RAM OCing isn't everyones cup of tea... it's time-consuming and annoying AF.
Point is, you suggesting you need a $400 motherboard and $350 RAM kit for DDR5 to start making sense "performance-wise" is very much incorrect.
What cpu are you running man?
I’m using a 12100f, Z690i Unify and Oloy DDR5 5600 CL36, B Die. And I’m getting 42-47ns in Aida64 memory test at 6200 CL34.
But is it outperforming much cheaper DDR4 mobos and RAM?
@@jjlw2378 it can if you buy a cheaper motherboard to BCLK overclock with
@@LegionGamingTV Bad cpu
its so weird seeing big "HP" logo on actually good ram sticks 😂
This vid explained it all to me from the set it & forget it XMP RAM to DDR5. I used to be an OC'er way back in the 90s, but fell away from it save for bumping Intel i5s a few hundred MHz every few years. And then Ryzen came along with all its cores, but essentially could not be OC'd.
It's just been a year or 2 now that I've become interested in tuning RAM and have mostly depended on Steve over at HuB. Thank you so much for this and other vids re Gears and whatnot. You've reawakened my passion for OCing.
All you had to do, was to reach out to HUB to clarify a few things in private
Because all you did was try to attack their credibility
You've had a few hot takes recently, not sure what you're trying to prove?
maybe you were upset when he said your 5800x3d conclusion wasn't the best conclusion on the matter? and tried to get one back
I guess you only know that answer to that
I think this is case then he don't agree, and any argument would not change his mind, because he know better. Where are people like this. Sad but true.
Unless I fall into an excess of money. The whole DDR5 AM4 platform is little more than a dream. I'm better off swapping my 2600 out for a 5000 series.
3600 to 5700x for me
A really inexpensive upgrade would be 3000 series CPU and nothing else. Guaranteed to work with all your existing system. 5000 series I would probably recommend a B450 or B550 motherboard and some faster RAM. At the point of buying a new motherboard you should check what Intel has to offer.
PS Zen 1+ to Zen 2 is an amazing upgrade. It makes a bigger difference to your experience than Zen 2 to Zen 3.
I should mention, I'm using a B450i with an RTX2060. I like the GPU. But, I also want to swap it out for a 6700XT.
@@surferboyuk84 How good is that 5700X compared to your 3600?
"Makes sense for production but doesn't make sense for gaming." Huh???? Unless you are a hard core competitive gamer (which is the majority of people out there) who gives a flip? There is nothing wrong with DDR5 except the "latency," which is a very very minor complaint. No need for a 30 min video, I could have gotten my wine and cheese in 2 minutes.
Normal people don’t know what tuning ram means
Avg person like me only do XMP
If i explain this to the people of my country,nobody bats an eye
So,what i can advise is just get a pair of 3200mhz if u need ddr4,while for those wanting to early adopt am5/ddr5 just save up for 6000mhz
The 4 and 6 core Alder-Lake F skew chips only need ddr5 6200 to be maxed out. They have a different die and dont have to go around all the e-cores and lose latency.. I have a Z690i Unify and a $130 Oloy DDR5 5600 Samsung kit and Im getting 42-47ns at 5900-6200mhz. You should look into that for content. I downloaded the BCLK OC bios and Im getting 12700k performance out of a 4 core cpu @ 5.2ghz and 6200 CL34. I know that board is expensive but its still fun to get that much power from a small 4 core cpu. Love the channel bro!
l I don't know if you just don't understand how AIDA works or it’s malice.
Your latency is not real. AIDA and IMLC can’t correctly determine the latency when ocing with bclk. You can easily check this if you spin up bclk multiplier and decrease the core multiplier to get same cpu frequency.
For example 40 core multiplayer and 100 bclk (ie stock) will give you around 62 ns (5800 33-32-32-44), but 27 and 150 will result in 42 ns (5700 33-32-32-44)
Your real latency is around 54-57 ns.
@@JimCareyMulligan SO since your so badass what is my latency at 6400 cl32? I'm not sure if you've ever used this new bclk oc method with the Alder Lake chips, but it doesn't work the same as the older chips. Tell me why I gain gaming, and 3dmark scores just by increasing the bclk and putting everything back to stock numbers i.e. 130 bclk with stock voltages memory speed and cpu speed. If you were correct then gains from just tuning bclk would be impossible, 3dmark and games don't give a shit about bclk percentages..
So you say Steve and yourself should have a chat, but then you put out a video like this that serves as nothing more than a hit piece to flame conflict. You could've easily discussed all this with him in private before putting this out. But i guess that wouldn't get the clicks you're after.
Exactly.... like you wanna have a chat do have a chat. But doing it indirectly via a video is like low....
Yeah but we were all thinking it and many said it. Steve put his video out to the public, it should be discussed in public.
You guys might as well stick with consoles by then lol who cares about DDR5 it wasn't ready to begin with it's always the same crap go play some games instead of bickering whose right
i thought HUB was testing non k cpus? i thought you couldnt tune anything on non-k intel cpus?
With B660 boards on up you can do RAM OC. But VCCSA voltages are still locked. That's why DDR4 4000 on a locked chip isn't possible with Gear1 Mode
Well in that case his poor combination of components skewed the results. If the DDR4 4000 was effectively incompatible with his CPU but limped along at reduced performance it was not a fair test. It would be like comparing two systems where one automatically switched on XMP and the other defaulted to low settings, not a realistic comparison.
@@TheGoodOldGamer my question is will somebody actually bother tuning when they're buying a non-k CPU?
@@wayland7150 Imo I don't think people are actually going to be tuning on non-k cpus. If you're intention was to oc and tune why would you go with the CPU sku that doesn't or is extremely limited for it?
I have 2 custom computers each with a 16GB kit of DDR4. Why would I move to DDR5? Give it two years before I might consider it.
When it's well adopted and the price is down and all the bugs and kinks are worked out and it's starting to be optimized.
Finally someone who actually tunes their memory
Excellent video - well explained and summarised. Thanks for the content which gets better and better…
I'm not trying to start crap but you are comparing a 12600k to a 12100 which is about as not apples to apples as you can get. Considering one allows overclocking and the other does not. You can't say hub and Steve didn't know what he was doing when you aren't even attempting to compare apples to apples that is where your opinion and therefore your video are misleading.
I'm unsubscribing from GoG. Sad, as he put out some really good content three years ago when I subbed to him. But now all he puts out is these rather suspicious looking, sometimes almost childish, videos of misinformation. The view counts suggest otherwise.
Correct. But ddr4 4000 at gear one likely faster than the ddr5. But he was in gear two cause non k cpus have locked system agent voltage which you would need at least 1.25-1.3v to run ddr4 4000 gear one. A non k cpu maxes at 0.9-0.950v. A lot of cpus won’t even run that. That’s why hub video is misleading.
@@killerrf no HUBs video was not misleading for the cpu they were using and the way they were using it. If they had said ddr5 beats ddr4 no matter the cpu then it would be but for Chris to come out and say their video was a lie and he didn't even acknowledge that the 12100 could only run gear 2 and the way Steve were testing it was correct is misleading.
@@stevenbean4275 I have to agree with you 100% here. Changing the CPU completely invalidates the entire point of the video and GoG might as well be blowing smoke because that's about as useful as this video is. Steve clearly gave an example of a few pieces of hardware and the results for that specific hardware. Nothing less, nothing more. Plain and simple. The GoG makes this off the wall video. Yes, we understand gear 1, tune, hop on one foot while rubbing belly and patting head. That's not the point of the original video. I use to like GoG but now he just seems annoying and click bait. I'll be unsubscribing and clicking that little "do not suggest this channel" button. It's a waste of time anymore.
@@killerrf
the intention of HUB was testing and comparing budget configurations, which obviously means cheap CPU to see how DDR5 performs in such scenario and the still somewhat increased cost can be justified (or not). How on Earth can this be missed and then judging the content based on such an error?
For Ryzen it is FCLK to UCLK to MEMCLK 1:1:1 - that's automatic up to 3600 (data rate 1800).
So, you’re not even going to acknowledge that Framechasers already did this? Twice? Okay…
That dude...
I have seen enough Frame Chasers content for my whole life the two times he was on the techonomics podcast :D
@@WCIIIReiniger yeah, I can understand that.
But like him or not it doesn’t change the fact HUB made the 2nd video bc he put out his initial reaction, and this was a back and forth between them in those comment sections, and almost everything Chris said was the same Jufes said this morning, including the offer to help. It would be surprising, though not impossible, that Chris wasn’t aware of that and didn’t make a brief acknowledgement.
@@A-A-Ron25 I watched his video after you mentioned it earlier today. Although I still don't like his attitude from a technical perspective he seems to be right and puts out similar content as Chris. To be honest it might be that Chris watched Jufes' video and was influenced by it, but I think it was okay not mentioning it.
Chris put his own work and thoughts into this video and its not like "Graphically Challenged" or "Gamer Meld" who often read the news that other people worked out and put on the internet. I am okay with "Graphically Challenged" being on the podcast with Chris and Paul, but his own videos were quite pointless when I watched them like a year ago.
I get trying to prove a point but going as far as putting a facepalm emoji on HWUB video is just plain disrespectful.... then going on in the video saying "help out"... dont be that two faced guy please.
Either you choose to be aggresive and stick with it or be completely neutral about it without calling other out.
As most know being called out is far from being respectful.
timing and evething about memory are done by about 1% of people. the rest of us will load xmp. So Hardware Unboxed is closer to reality then you are.
This guy just shits on amd whenever he can. I have only just enabled xmp on ram. Nobody I personally know pushes it further.
You’re missing the point, hub should’ve stated that 4000 was in gear 2 thus performance is greatly hindered. That’s the point either Steve is incompetent or pushing an agenda. Simple.
Also you’re wrong about hub being closer to reality as well because a 3600 c14 xmp kit will performs better than the ddr5 kit used…. Cmon man stop cucking for big techtubers
@@wsv8818 I agree, I was thinking about looking at ecc for my next build. I remember running windows 2000 and not having to restart my computer for 6 months. Just about every computer I own will crash once I a week if I am working it hard. I feel like these systems are becoming less stable.
@@Cremepi he's clearly not incompetent. And clearly the new and platform will be ddr5 only, no it's not like if you have to build a new AMD pc you'll have any other option, so they are preparing the road for that. Everyone's got an agenda
just built a DDR4 system after 10 years or so of DDR3, will go to DDR5 in 10 years or so.
I’m a Zen 4 customer for RPCS3. X3D didn’t make any difference for RPCS3 with Zen 3, is it expected to make a difference with Zen 4? I didn’t think memory latency was a significant factor for RPCS3 performance, am I wrong?
I play Wipeout HD on RPCS3. It's quite heavy on my Linux Mint RYZEN 9 5900X hitting it at 25%. It's a lot better on this than on a 5600X. GPU is an R9 FuryX. GPU is not a bottleneck in RPCS3, CPU is. The game plays very well hitting 300FPS unlocked but I lock it at 60.
When you say X3D made no difference does this mean you are experiencing some sort of performance problem? What difference did you expect it to make?
You know that with faster memory access (X3D) that the CPU will work harder and show a higher % CPU. You know also the X3D is clocked slower so will show higher CPU usage doing the same thing as a standard 5800X.
This was why those Bulldozer CPUs were so bad, not because they did not have the performance capability but you could not feed them fast enough to make them 100% busy. Zen 1 has a similar problem.
@@wayland7150 no issues in games that are supposed to work well, but like GoWIII could run better and it had no improvement on 5800X3D vs 5800X. But in this vid he recommended RPCS3 users wait for Zen 4 3D. To me it sounds like CPU perf is the only limiting factor hardware-wise for RPCS3 right now and V-cache or high performance DDR4/5 won’t make a difference but it sounds like he disagrees
"dont buy $50 ddr5, buy $200 ddr4 instead" ffs 😒
Its definitely the time to just keep what you have and see how AM5 and Z790 boards shake out. If you have to build something now DDR4 is still fine as a budget option since most budget builders are going to be GPU limited anyway.
Yes. Your next build should be ddr5, building a new PC with DDR4 right now only locks you into old tech, that would be stupid
What he is saying is you can't by something now that beats DDR4 and it won't beat DDR4 in future. By the time DDR5 beats DDR4 you'd be changing your motherboard and RAM to take advantage of that. The only reason to buy DDR5 is you need it for Zen 4. So buying DDR4 or DDR5 today locks you into old tech except DDR4 is cheaper and faster.
@@wayland7150 gear 1 is not always faster then gear 2, when both options are out for 13th gen, and we get the next gen of GPUs from AMD/Nvidia, that is when you want to build a PC, and go with all new tech, ditch DDR4
Chris this is a weird video to put out. It sounds like you should have talked to Steve in private first in order to clarify his testing methods and conclusions.
Not saying Steve is right and you're wrong, but the drama-bait and condescending tone makes it feel like the purpose of this video was for views and attention rather than education.
Smart creators working together benefits the community far more than cheap infighting.
This^^
Getting ready to build a new PC for music production, planning on using a 13700k processor with minimal overclocking, undervolted and air cooled, what are optimal ram speeds for ddr4 and ddr5 and which should I use?
For production I would suggest get DDR4 3200 or 3600 with CL16 as that is often the cheapest option and invest in a large enough NVMe SSD storage with good transfer speed (read and write speed) as that will probably be more important then have the fastest RAM you can get.
Mount NVMe SSD on motherboard (M2 slot) with lanes close to CPU (read manual for motherboard as that might be different from brand and motherboard) to get most out of PCI express speed. Make sure that NVMe SSD will not get too hot (have fans in case that also will blow some around that area on motherboard).
DDR5 costs about the same as DDR4 right now, why would you buy older tech for a new build
it's still going to cost more going zen 4
@@briangrant9942 for absolutely no reason right now!
My bdie ddr4 is at 4533mhz 16-17-17-32 still wins vs ddr5 lol need to be at least close to 7000 for DDR5 to be worth it
Because the older tech is faster?
@@isakh8565 only time will really really if Italy worthwhile though
Loved the video. Question: Do you recommend any practical cheap RAM cooler that sells in Europe (Portugal)? I did a RAM overclock (8gb sr Hynix 1jr) , however it overheats. It´s only TM5/OCCT + iGPU stable when I leave the side panel open, or when I ramp up fans a lot, which is not practical. I´m thinking of one of those 2x60mm fans that attach on the dimms and sells on aliexpress for 25euros or so, no idea if that´s effective or not. EDIT: I only did 50mv above xmp, so that should be fine, but clock is really high (4133) because it´s an APU (5600g) which can pretty much do whatever fclk (4133/2 is really easy and if the RAM could handle it, it would do higher). Sadly, I it doesn´t have temp sensors, I can just tell it´s being temp sensitive based on the stability with side panel open or fans running at 70% (which is way too much for me)
But... Steve used a 12100 and you're using a 12600k with adjustable SA voltage?
One note: stuttering from latency dif between ddr4 and ddr5 shouldn't be directly comparable, as ddr5 dual channel functions like ddr4 quad channel (just with half the channel width per channel), and different levels of access have improved latencies vs ddr4 iirc.
But yeah, they really should not have used gear 2 ddr4..
Great video Chris!
What about inviting Buildzoid to the podcast? That would be awesome!
the Kingston DDR4 Renegade ram kit at 23:08 is dual-rank, and has Hynix memory.
waiting for a GN Drama video now. 🤣
Your wait is over, haha
You can fuck about with coolers all you want an be frustrated or just buy the Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 for about $100 and be done with it. It will give you the best cooling for gaming on either the Intel or AMD (for AMD it has an offset mount included). For Intel you will probably need to buy the frame to replace the CPU mount for between $14 and $35.
Without replacing the mounting for your CPU on Intel Alder Lake boards you memory config will be dependant on how lucky you are to get you CPU seated properly.
Nonetheless, the cooler I recommended is the best AIO on the market at the moment and also the cheapest in its class
I can vouch for Arctic. Got the 280mm on a 3700X.
without watching this video, but having watched your previous 4 V 5 video, my guess is memory tuning is critical to get optimum performance. I only use XMP with intel and PBO/rebar with AMD. So not the in depth tuning you did/do.
What is "gear 1" and "gear 2"?
How do we change that?
Is it the XMP profile 1 and profile 2?
Would love to see a video on how to tweak the ram settings. I would like to give it a try.
Hi, very interesting vídeo, I also watched the HUB video with skepticism and thought that something strange was going on. Anyway, I noticed a small mistake in you "Excel" table for the results of the HUB video, in SOTTR, the 1% Lows and Avg are exchanged, so the supposedly lead of 3200C14 may be still higher (I did not do the math myself) at leas in 1%Low
In general really like your content, this video had some really good information.
It just came across a little bit condescending, especially towards Steve and Co.
Although sure that wasn’t your intent, keep up the good work
I'm sure it was his intent, this guy has been doing this for the last few videos, even to the point of implying that he was one of the few that did CPU tests correctly.
Amazon UK doesn't have that HP memory in stock. Pity. I'm really in the market for 2x16gb 2R b-die 😒
Yup, HP V10 hard to find here. Like the Acer Predator Apollo RGB Samsung b die kit. Gskill flare x and Ripjaws V look easier to get in the UK. Not sure which versions is b die or sk hynix.
Have you tried Overclockers UK they sell 8-Pack tuned ram in 32gb 3600 cl16 samsung b die. They were £150 at one point.
@@theoldpcgamer77 Decent, crazy you have to pay so much more for CL14 ram. HP V10, Kitguru said it only has 5 year warranty i thought ram has limited lifetime warranty.
Nope, they did not actually state that. Yet again you made a false claim and pretty much got destroyed by the facts. You could have very easily avoided looking bad by simply sticking to the facts instead of lying about context. Can't even do something that simple.
"Save money and get DDR4, but make sure you get the $200 DDR4"
I found 32gb ddr5 5600 that’s under that price about around 150.
@@Frank451Martin But performs much worse. FrameChasers has a few videos on tweaking DDR5 to max potential vs DDR4.
@@Frank451Martin I just got 64gb ddr5 5200 for $350 CDN which is like $255 USD. We'll see how it goes.
@@skorpers who cares I'm buying 5200 DDR5 for 150$ over DDR4 any day
@@dariomladenovski7047 Enjoy slower ram I guess.
Well even the unlocked K processors while most can run DDR4 4000 in Gear 1, they do not by default if you just set XMP, they go to Gear 2. You need to manually tune to Gear 1. So many tests comparing DDR4 4000 to high speed DDR5, no mention on whether they just XMP or tuned it to Gear 1. Where as non-K CPUs do not have that ability. Though DDR4 3600 and below XMP I believe on most if not all mobos defaults to Gear 1.
Well, I feel rather happy with my 5800X3D and a 6700XT system. This next gen feels like it's going to be a power-hungry, expensive headache.
PC gets new tech all the time, the problem is no developer utilizes the features. SLI is dead and gone
I think that open source drivers might give the power to the community to fix some gamedev issues that will never be fixed.
Chris, you made a mistake in the chart you did from HUB results. In SOTTR 4000C19 you have the 1% low and AVG results mixed...
ummmmmm, you cannot directly compare these two, at all, considering that you are not using a 12100. you are also using an unlocked cpu. you can critisize if you want, but you cannot go and change up testing methods, because you did, and then claim it as you proved him wrong. this is almost as bad as your "intel is better than AMD cause i ran everything at 720p and resolution scaling, just like everyone else does so these tests make perfect sense"
Wait I have GSkill Trident Z NEO RGB 3600 CL14 8g x 4 kit and they are Samsung B Die.
Are you saying that HP kit that uses the same Samsung Die basically is somehow better than the set I have?
Sorry but I'm kind of shocked that apparently that HP kit is somehow better than one of the best DDR4 kits known to exist a year or so ago when I bought it. Mine is the GSkill Trident Z NEO RGB 3600 CL14 that everyone raved about back then and it is Samsung B Die but I really need some clarification.
Thanks...
HP V10 is such a stellar kit. I'm glad I could just transfer it to my 13700k. 3800 cl14-14-12-24 with 260 trfc and lowest possible sub timings it's definitely beating a lot of high end ddr5 kits in games.
Great video!
Why again do you need a $400 Mainboard to run ddr5 at high speeds? I thought the memory controller was inside the CPU? Or am i mixing something up? Somehow the Mainboard chipset locks memory OC on H610 boards i think. So what is the mainboards role in all these memory matters and what is purely the CPU's limits?
I think you are failing to grasp the point Steve #hardwareunbox was making. His recommendation was not so much about superior perfomance of DDR5. It was about the upgrade path. If I follow your advice, I'll buy a DDR4 system and net myself 10% additional perfomance in SOME games. And lets be honest on a budget system that usually equates to a few extra frames. The next time I upgrade I most definitely would have to buy DDR5 memory in additon to all the other components. If I buy DDR5 now, even if it is below the 7600 sweetspot you speak of, I won't need to buy memory for my next upgrade, saving me $120-$200 on my future build. Anyone buying a Core i3 is very price sensative. I am willing to bet that saving $120-$200 on a future build trumps foregoing a few frames.
Exactly, this.. I can understand difference of opinion, but this video went about it the wrong way, and as you said, he failed to grasp the rather simple point Steve put out. All to just get a few clicks/views.
I also agree with you that my next build regardless if it is Raptor Lake or Zen 4, will be DDR5, not point in not getting the current latest memory specifications.
I bought the hp kit. Would you say it’s a good kit for the 5800x3d and should I do 16 or 32
I watched this video and I have no freaking clue how to buy RAM to maximize my CPU. None at all. Gear one and two? Did I miss something? I believe what is being said but find it totally unhelpful when I want to buy some RAM. What magic numbers do I need to tweak to dramatically improve memory performance?
I have a 3600 overclocked to 4.4GHz @ 1.365v. I then overclocked my RAM from 3200MHz 16 18 18 38 tRC 54 tRFC 430 @ 1.35v to 3800MHz 16 18 19 20 tRC 56 tRFC 500. +20 fps in Deep Rock Galactic and overall much higher GPU utilization in games.
Yes exactly. It's not really the raw grunt, it's the latency.
Would the expensive Kingston Fury Renegade DDR4 16GB (8GB x2) 5333Mhz kit give amazing results like Samsung b die.
Wouldn't be the first time HWU borked testing to comply with their own confirmation bias.
I'd like to see what 3 settings you changed to tune in your ram, I bought the 4400 viper kit for my 10850k. Could only get it to 3800 cl 16 16 16 36 stable at 45ns. I'm using 4 sticks so I guess this maybe the best speeds I can get.
i would like to get some tip if possible... i have a g.skill 2x32gb SK Hynix ram with specs, 3600MT/s and CL 18-22-22-42 and i would like to tinker with it... my latency unfortunately according to AIDA benchmark tab is 67ms and i have it on Gear 1and my CPU is the i7 12700k with the Asus Z690 TUF WIFI mobo... where should i start with SK Hynix modules because it seems that are more sensitive compare to samsung b-die... thanks in advance...
Gamers do seem to have more money than sense. New tech like DDR5 is exciting and we really need people like you to break down the numbers.
Still don't have any idea what you're on about with those gears. Are you talking about in the bios? My bios don't have anything that says 'gear' on it. Did I miss it?
Surprising that this is coming up before the launch of the new platforms. DDR5 can't have matured if the platforms that will primarily support DDR5 aren't out yet! A bit pre-emptive by HUB in my opinion. Thanks for the testing, GoG! Would love to see more compares with different memory rank configurations after the new platforms are released. Take it easy too, enjoy your passion.
We’ve had a year with DDR5 on Alder Lake. We all know it will just get better and cheaper…
There are other reviewers who say they want to benchmark what DDR5 can do today ahead of the imminent launch of AM5. That seems wise to me. It makes sense to do this using Alderlake because it handles DDR4 and DDR5 so a fair comparison.
@@wayland7150 Numbers are great, and I'm glad we can test both beforehand to get an rough idea. But recommending to hop on the DDR5 platform ahead of Intel and AMD releasing motherboards more specifically designed for DDR5 is just sleazy.
@@wayland7150 Then why don't they? It's all available right now. There has been nothing stopping them. No one is denying it's more expensive, but with AMD requiring it, it will drop. It's already dropping. I have seen 32GB kits of 5800-6200 for $175 open box.
@@farmeunit My point is they have been comparing DDR4 against DDR5 using Alderlake.
Haven't seen HWU video, but I do share the view that at this moment is still at the crossroad of not yet being in a position as a true contender to beat the established DDR4 on price/perf. This will change of course in time.
Regarding @23:00. Have read some user feedback on this Kingston kit, mentioning that on some AM4 400 boards it has some stability issues. I had been contemplating this kit for my final upgrade, currently put on hold, on my MSI B450 Tom. Max coupled with an upgrade to a R7 5700X.
If anyone is running this Kingston kit without issues on a B450 for instance I would really like to know, if it's a Tom. Max I'm even more interested in someones experience when it is stable for you.
As i said on the HUB video is that DDR5 is good for most general user's right now but my DDR4 Trident Royal Elite cl14 4000Hz RAM is STILL faster than the best DDR5 out right now. Just grab a calculator and do the math. DDR5 is really good out of the gate but still not better than the maturity of last gen rn.
Can’t beat 4000 c14 with tuned timings lol
@@basedanon420
Spider-man 🤷🏼. That game loves ddr5.
@@theoldpcgamer77 because one game loves it doesnt mean that 99% of others do lol. Ddr5 will come around just like any other iteration. Give it time
@@mileskt9232
I'm already on ddr5 6200 cl36 with Alder lake cpu. My platform upgrade is done for me now. Nvme ssd, W11, new cpu cooler. I won't be changing platform now for 3yrs.
Biggest gain in fps will be video card. Mem tuning can help but it can take weeks to get stable.. frustrating when your programs crash out of the blue. Not like cpu tuning where you seem to hit a wall where it works or doesn’t.
I spotted a flaw in your “Steve’s numbers” data, 1st&2nd data column 2nd row. how can a 1% low be 128fps and the avg be 102fps?
Pretty obvious, a low in a collection of integers can’t be higher that the average of that collection.
I hope someone can answer this, but why does that tool measure latency at 50+ when a manual calculation comes out around 10?
ddr5 still is twice the price for 64gb, and you get some slow speeds on it.
im ok with my ddr4 3600mhz on my 12700k.
Your Amazon link to the 3060 Ti is wrong as it comes up here as a 3060 with 12GB VRAM. Very odd all round and so expensive too.
You explained gear 1 and 2 the way I still dont have a clue what that is.
I need to know those 3 sub timing changes on that hp kit. Please? This is Swiss cheese to me I’m trying to learn this but damn I’m old and dumb lol
tbh mate, I'm just going to play Conquest: Frontier Wars any way. don't even need ddr2 for that.
The fastest 3600 ddr4 i could find on newegg was cas 16, so would you need ddr5 7200 cas 32 to basically be equal?
How mature will DDR5 get? Will we see CAS 20-30 6000-8000Mhz? I am new to ram and trying to figure this out. I mean DDR5 CAS 40 feels like quite alot.
can you do a 5800x3d and that hp kit? im lost i follwed steps but closest i got it to was 59ns.
I see people misunderstanding about dd5 just like people misunderstand Team-Blue and Team-Red 😐 Your typical buyer is not gonna adjust your system so that's why most people go with Team-Red. Team-Blue most people do adjust their system so there goes one of the bigger differences
No. Most people regardless of platform, don't overclock or tune their system. Frame chasers has rotted peoples' brain.
@@abdullahdanze2061 you want the absolute max performance out of your system lol other than that most people's PCs are just like consoles stuck whatever their clocked at is that what PCs are? Just stick with console and be done and game not that hard then again most people are just lazy
hopefully May next year-ish DDR 5 is gonna be normal prices, and with me being a 3D artist, i could probably/definately use the speed, hopefully a 7950X being able to use the DDR5 to its fullest, and all these problems solved by then.
DDR5 WILL BE my next build. Zen 4 RDNA3 in March. As you said yourself everyone has different priorities
Totally agree, DDR5 expensive, bugs, not so great compared to DDR 4 comparing to price to performace, also not enough companys are on board yet to go full DDR 5 systems
What were the timings you tweaked? tRP, tFAW?
Im pretty sure steves point was not at all for people that go and "tweak " ram timings lol. who the hell does that maybe 0.1% of users. He just showd some results of stok stuff you buy and put in.
The DDR4 4000 RAM he chose was wrong for the CPU he was using. It was limping along. Choosing RAM that will perform badly and then not trying to correct that maybe fair if you're trying to show mistakes people make but an unfair showing of DDR4. Hardware Unboxed have a habit of mismatching components, usually for a reason. They pair a super powerful CPU with various GPUs for comparison. This may seem fair but results can be reversed in a system with a mid power CPU because of the load the driver puts on the CPU.
@@wayland7150 IT seems to do not understand HuB testing methodology. I suggest you ask them why they do what you are criticizing them for, they can probably educate you on their reasons.
@@wayland7150 Your self-righteousness blinds you to the point of Steve’s video.
@@roidman1983 I know the point of Steve's video. Buy DDR5 now because it's future proof. He is wrong on three count's first that it matches DDR4 performance, second that it matches DDR4 price and third that the faster DDR5 will work in the board and CPU bought today. In order to do so he deliberately made a poor match with DDR4 4000 and a 12100. I self righteous because I'm right and not taking this shit of Steve's you're condoning.
@@wayland7150 Again, your self-righteousness blinds you.
It seems like the only thing you payed attention to in the video were the graphs, and completely ignored everything Steve said in the video. He never said buy DDR5 now, he only said since the prices for DDR5 have lowered enough in price it might be something someone who's doing a new "PC build" should consider as an option. That's all he said, but yet your just so hell bent on being right. And as for him using the i3 12100 for the test, the title of the video was "DDR5 For BUDGET CPUs, Does It Make Sense Now? Core i3-12100", the whole point of the video was to test the i3 12100 with different memory configurations to see what made sense to pair with the i3 12100. That was it, that was the point of the video. But instead ignorant people got triggered by the graphs and ignored everything else.
Bandwith is more important than latency. If you work in video editing and software that makes use of high cores, you want maximum data stream, whatever the latency. IMO games don't relay as much on ram latency as cpu or gpu. At the end of the day it's about how much money you wanna spend. If you don't demand the max of the max you can have double performance per dollar with last year's hardware with cheap and fast DDR4. And I doubt software is always optimised to make best use of latest hardware, it catches up in time.
That 4000 DDR4 was exactly my comment.
New builds only is Steve said
If you're a gamer, don't get DDR4 right now. It makes zero sense to get a DDR4 motherboard right now unless you upgrade every year. I agree with HUB, and he made it very clear in his videos, that he's not recommending people with DDR4 switch to DDR5. He is saying it makes no sense to buy a DDR4 platform anymore. So your point is moot. If you're buying a platform now, buy DDR5 and when ram matures, get that if you need it. Besides, ram is rarely the bottleneck.
it is a bottleneck in almost all competetive games
@@kerim_og_9378 would you recommend a competitive gamer building a system in October to buy a DDR4 platform? Sure the elite DDR4 would be needed to compete with the mid range (of today's ddr5) at all. But in 2 years DDR5 8000 will be available so... It's dumb to buy a DDR4 platform now.
@@torfinnjohnsrud793 if ur building today yes i'd still recommend ddr4 over ddr5 because for the price right now you get much better performance with some good 200$ ddr4 sticks, to even match the ddr4 performance u need high expensive ddr5 sticks + a mobo that can run very high frequency, for example:
U need a ddr5 board for 400-500$ + 7000 ddr5 for 300$ to even MATCH in performance a ddr4 200$ board + 200$ sticks
Its right now 800 vs 400$ dollars
Like Chris said, if Zen 4 3d comes out, yea then u can get some cheap boards & ddr5 sticks since the ddr5 frequency doesnt matter that much as we have seen with the 5800x3d
The best price for (Gaming) performance this year will be either a cheap z690 board + b die ddr4 + raptor lake k cpu + overclock, or u wait till zen4 release the 5800x3d might drop in price + a cheap b550 board for 110$ and the cheapest ddr4 u can get
With zen4 + ddr5 @ 6000 (which is claimed by amd to be the sweetspot i doubt that it will match raptor lake performance with some highspeed b dies
And yeah in 2 years ddr5 8000 might be affordable but im not building a system now to get some good stuff in the next years, most of the gamers doesnt want to wait even till next year
Also its important to know what is the goal
Right now a 12900k + ddr4 (which will be even better with raptorlake) or the 5800x3d wont be the bottleneck in like 99% of the games
Unless you are getting a 4090 it is still the best bang for buck to build on AM4 or Alderlake with DDR4 (if you get the right memory). But for most people who don't know their XMP from a door then getting whatever suits your budget is the way to go as the differences are marginal. We are enthusiasts so there will always be bias vs the average user.
@@Mopantsu Until we see the performance of RL and Zen 4, it's way too early to make any determination on the best way forward. And to be honest, for the old games that GoG like to test, you don't even need Rocket Lake, much less AL.
I have 5800x and 4x8 patriot viper 4400cl19. I suck at oc but i got my kits up to 54,5-54,7 ns latency. I run it at only 3733 cl 16-16-16-32-48 and trfc 298. I tuned all timing a little bit. I can't even post 3800 with 4 sticks, cl 14 didn't work either due to ram overheating. I tried disabling gear down mode and manually set it to cl 15 but i couldn't get testmem5 errors away. I'm still happy with my ram. I only paid 150 bucks for all 4 sticks
That's really not bad at all. My 5600x and 5800x both capped at 3733 running 1:1. You have to be somewhat lucky to get 3800, and you need to be lottery winner to get 4000-4133
currently i am running an r9-270 2 gb with an i7-4790 non k. i am thinking heavily on the AM4 system, not for super performance, but for the upgradability. the problem with zen 3 motherboards, is that the 5000 series cpus are likely the last generation that will go with the ddr4 motherboards. in general, i run a 1080p 60hz monitor with plans to upgrade to 4k 120 in a few years, after the 8000 series of gpus are released. i don't know how much stuttering the ddr5 is, but i imagine it is still quite small when gaming at 1080 with slower memory, and running a 6600xt, right?
You need to plan less and do more. Get an AM4 motherboard like a B450 or B550, chuck some RAM and a CPU in it and up grade your computer. There is no socket with more upgradability than AM4 and may never be again. You could buy a RZYEN 5 3600 which would thrash your i7 and still have several massive upgrades ahead of you. Dreaming of Alderlake or AM5 is getting you nowhere. When you've got yourself AM4 then look at VEGA 56 as a seamless replacement of R9 270. It won't be the very latest system but if you need more the upgrades are easy.
@@wayland7150 the processors which go with the am4 mother board will not be relevant in 6 years, especially, the 3600. even if i bought an am4 motherboard, any "upgrades" would all be used parts, which have no warranty, and held back by a motherboard which will be outdated, same with V 56. i would rather wait till kinks are worked out after the launch of the AM5, and get that. get the lower end APU, then upgrade to the 8900x, or 9900x later.
i do play a lot of ai heavy games, like oxygen not included, 7 days to die, frostpunk...etc.
Why has the CPU you buy today got to last 6 years? If you buy the next gen motherboard now it won't last 6 years. You can keep old gear going for 10 years or more if you want to. You could upgrade to AM4 today to get a big boost then upgrade to AM5 series when they've fixed the bugs and got the price down. Nothing forces you to wait 6 years, do it now.
If you go with ddr5 anything under 7600mhz is wasted and you must go Hynix if you care about speed. I run my 6400mhz g skills at 7200mhz at 1.48v and still get 52ns latency from stock 64ns. If you go cl14 g.skills at 4000mhz cl14 is on par with my kits. The 4000mhz ddr4 is more expensive and hard to find in Australia so went with ddr5 on a z790 board. DDR4 as you said is the play unless at the super high end. G.SKill have stock 7600mhz kits now. Once these go mainstream this will be the play. Other than that ddr5 is wasted money because ddr4 kits are betting in gaming. 3600cl16 would be what I would recommend to most ppl still. Framechasers runs his home rig I believe at 8400mhz ddr5 and did a 15 hour memory stress test and was stable with no errors.
HUB's DDR4 vs DDR5 comparison is utterly pointless for a few reasons:
1. 12100F with 3090ti is worst case scenario, and very unrealistic to put it kindly. Nobody buying 3090ti would buy a budget CPU like 12100F. If HUB used 12600k, the difference between RAM sticks would be smaller, since 12600k has more cache which means the CPU doesn't need to talk with RAM as much.
2. His test was extremely CPU-bottlenecked. Meanwhile, an overwhelming majority of gamers are GPU-bottlenecked, which means the difference between DDR4 and DDR5 would drop down to 1-3%, which is not noticable with naked eye.
It's very obvious HUB is pushing people to DDR5 platforms because AMD is desperate to sell Zen4. AMD know that AM5 platform is extremely expensive and gamers will stay on AM4 for the next 1-2 years.