Reading it right now, past first quarter of the book. Don't understand the dislike, its well written and very rich in interesting examples of different world mythos. Not to mention how insightful it is. It simply is a great read.
@@MaxYari if you truly believe it has interesting intent behind it i recommend Maggie Mae Fish's 2-part essay on the topic ruclips.net/video/Q9zR4lWyVN8/видео.html
Almost 20 years later, what I mainly remember of my final, operatic confrontation against Malak is proving my superior virtue and righteousness by kiting him over frag mine, after frag mine, after frag mine... Like a Hero. ;-)
I dropped grenades at my own feet while Malak tried to stab me and then force healed myself and ran around in a circle until my force points regenerated. I wasn't good enough at the game to properly kite him, nor to land the sticky grenades, but I was a light side paragon and was still carrying every grenade I had picked up after Taris, because I had forgotten that they existed up until that moment. It was not exactly a dignified final battle.
I just went into melee, then ran away with force speed and kite while I get enough force points to heal again and do it all over again, and do it again and again and again for about 40 minutes. Good thing there was no timer.
I doubted when I read "almost 20" years but after thinking for a few seconds I realized it is truly almost 20 years. Kotor games still feel so modern to me. Thanks for making me feel old :)
The end fight against Kreia is really simple for why it happens. She’s your teacher, you’re her prize pupil. As a Sith, she knows that the only way for you to finish your lessons under her is to kill her. As a Jedi, she knows you have to break the master-student bond between you and her to be self-complete. And as an Echani, she believes that people find definition and resolution in conflict. So, after having manipulated all these foes to stand in your way - Sion, Nihilus, Atris - she sets herself up as the final villain, your last challenge. It’s the only way she knows to finalise your graduation from her schooling. That’s all there is to it; it’s all for you, to help you be the best you that she can.
@@ArvelDreth isn't she? She follows their ways of conflict exposing truth. She and Handmaiden describe the same idea on two different occasions. And her daughter is full echani, not half echani or anything like that.
@@smartalec2001 Kreia doesn't have a daughter. Kreia's worldview is just the Sith Code mixed with Nietzschean philosophy. The fact that one aspect of her beliefs overlaps with one aspect of the Echani's beliefs doesn't mean she's part of the same race as Brianna.
@@ArvelDreth she's Arren Kae, Handmaiden's mother. And she gives Handmaiden's definition of Echani ideas back to you at one point, reworded but synonymical.
There's no RPG I remember more than this. So many of Kreia's words have stuck with me. It's an absolute treat to see your take on these 2 amazing games. You're most appreciated, Noah.
@@FinneousPJ1 thanks for the suggestion but i did that awhile ago lol. its a 2 hour vid so i could have missed the line, which is why i asked the commenter about it. enjoy your day though mate.
I always found it hilarious in a dark way how the Juhani quest can end up with her dead. I mean, everybody is willing to sit and do nothing, her master not telling her she survived, the council sending Revan to handle it... And then the 8 intelligence, 0 persuassion Defender blunders in and just offs her. Somehow, they did not realize this was a possible outcome. It's almost as if all the dumb and incompetent Jedi were force-waved upstairs into the council
His phrase sort of offends me. But whatever, I'm here for Darth Revan. Not some Phantom Menace cut-out villain from Episode 3 that mere mentioned of his name being a thermal bomb by Darth Sidious to turn Anakin to the Dark Side...
Not to steal your thunder, but I'm pretty sure he made this video as I've just finished the first one, and am currently replaying kotor II. But if not for that, I would have guessed that it was your comment too
"And since KOTOR is inexplicably based off of modified 3rd Edition DnD rules..." It's actually very explicable - one, Lucas had a partnership with DnD publisher Wizards of the Coast at the time (the Star Wars tabletop RPG they released was the same way), and two, it's what the developers were used to, having just come off of the Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights games.
Still, a more intuitive system would have made more sense. First time I played kotor I knew nothing about dnd and had no idea what d4 was supposed to mean.
@@motharfirecaller3954 I don't think it's very necessary to understand the rules since literally everything is done for you by the computer. The system is intuitive enough that bigger numbers are clearly always better in this system and the game is easy enough that you don't need to use knowledge of the D&D 3.5 rules to min/max your character in order to have fun.
Joliee's wife didn't join Revan's Sith Empire. She joined Exar Kun's Sith Empire. The time line is really weird, but some fifty years before KOTOR I, a Jedi named Exar Kun turned to the Dark Side and went to war against the Jedi and Republic, turning many Jedi to his side. This is the war that leads up to the Mandalorian Wars which in turn results in the Jedi Civil War.
I think the reason why the Heroes' Journey is so ubiquitous in a lot of western storytelling is because when you break it down to its simples points its basically a schematic for making sure your characters at least go through basic character development, which arguably is essential for good storytelling. Leave safe space, find mentor, learn about the world, face challenges, fail, try again using what you'll learned, succeed.
Agreed. What's interesting about that structure, imo, is not it's only ubiquity but it's broad psychological resonance. The stories we tell, and the manner in which we tell them, are representations of our own desires, fears and neuroses. The shared elements of human stories across cultures, continents and centuries tell us something about our shared nature, the primal and universal parts of our unconscious mind. Noah seems to find this divisive, which is ok. I don't agree, I think it's an avenue for understanding our fellow humans, and ourselves in the process. Just my 2 cents.
@@q.parablesque5610 We are not allowed to generalise, to absoerve broad structures, or correlate with reality. Everyone and everything must be special. Every uniquecircumstance must be observed, every golden rule overturned, every model denoumced as flawed. Yes, I do despise post modernism, how could you tell. The monomyth is a reductionist framework. Ots a model, and models of sufficent accuracy is how we can know anything about the world. If we put out our own eyes over the realisation they capture imperfect images, we will only lose even what little insight we have.
Idk, if you're reducing it to a character arc outline, there are more directly applicable, less loaded models. How broad and generous do you have to be with the monomyth so it doesn't grate or ring hollow? 1:25:08 is an example of how actually adhering to models like this crunches down a lot of the world's texture and meaning. It makes me want to interrogate the underlying assumptions and if they're actually all that useful AS a model. Why is it important to universalize mana and libido under the same banner? Do I get more interesting questions out of embracing this idea or rejecting it? etc. etc. Looking at the monomyth like that, I quite like it as a springboard for comparison, but less so as duct tape.
Don't-read-my-name-I-don't-care could have put in something like "empty or noname", yet they chose to make a _statement._ That's not a person that doesn't care, that's an emotional cactus.
@@arnox4554 You'd have to ask each one personally, but as with any Patreon readout I imagine it's the people who put jokes/statements as their names that care the most.
@@arnox4554 I wouldn't mind if he didn't, but appreciate the fact that he does very much. And hearing him getting my name nearly right is always a nice end to a fine watching experience. So to some degree, I do care.
52:20 NITPICK NERD MODE ACTIVATED!: It was Exar Kun that Jolee's wife followed, not Revan and Malak, around 40 years before the start of KOTOR. Kun's story was told in Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi by Tom Veitch and Kevin J. Anderson. (the KOTOR series serves as a sort of pseudo-sequel to Tales of the Jedi)
'You who have defeated us say to yourselves that Babylon is fallen and its works have been overturned. I say to you still that man remains on trial, each man in his dock. Each man is a little war.' Frank Herbert - Dune
"life is long and the betrayal of the Self is always a lurking possibility" Jesus, god... Are you looking into my soul? You don't get to cut me this deep in a Star Wars retrospective.
@@LordJagd I'm a bit late with this, but I would interpret it as unwanted urges and desires threatening to bring down your whole identity. Like a Pedophile who knows that it's wrong to diddle kids trying their best to resist those thoughts and urges.
"This is your brain on Freud" is fucking brilliant, I chortled while holding my non-phallic cigar. Side note: I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite channel on the RUclipss. (but for real noah, i love your content)
Seeing Noah get all theoretical and start to truly discuss games through a theory-based lens (something he already does, but here receives higher focus) like you'd see in the best of cultural studies is God Tier good. I hope we get to see more videos based around cultural theory from you!
Is she? "When power becomes gracious and descends into the visible - such descent I call beauty. And there is nobody from whom I want beauty as much as from you who are powerful: let your kindness be your final self-conquest."
small request: when quoting a book, something meant to be read, please put the words on the screen. It is at least for me, non native speaker, super hard to parse.
@@agyratingmonkeyyou know, English is a pretty irregular language between spelled and written word. In Spanish you say it and can easily write it, same with french. Bibliography and citations on screen are really helpful for non-natives like myself. Edit: and native english speaking folk pronounce other languages like shit. Usually you don't know any tongue outside of English and it shows. Particularly shameful when you're in a country supposedly rich economically and culturally with a huge mixed of different nationalities.
I would've never guessed that the we write in books is so different from how we speak that it's hard to understand for a non native speaker. Fascinating!
"The reasons you must fight kreia to the death are flimsy, unsatisfying." If you win, she has created a student that is a hostile threat to the force and carries her lessons the best--"you are greater than any I have ever trained" If you lose, she recreates a reverberating force echo that will deafen the galaxy to the force--by inducing the fight with the exile at the source of the wound in the force: Malachor V, which the Exile otherwise carries with her. For the Exile's future, it is also important not only to resolve her past with Malachor V--either by mastering it or destroying it--but also to severe their Force Bond. Zez-Kai-El tentatively suggests that one killing the other could sever the bond and not just have the consequences of them mutually denying. There are plentiful motivations for the final encounter. There is also the fact that Kreia is an old witch who has accomplished her final task in life and relies on a poison she despises to keep living.
The fact you chose to interact with The Hero With a Thousand Faces in good faith and extract meaning out of it while still acknowledging it's faults, is why I keep coming back. It's what's missing in a lot of current cultural discourse. Thank you for leading by example!
@@ichoffski4707 it means it's explicitly critical of how the creation of cultural outgroups is used to justify atrocity and it explicitly places it in the contest of colonial atrocity.
Oof, I've seen so many critics I enjoyed uncritically reproduce this laundered version of Campbell's hero's journey as The One Way To Tell Stories, very refreshing video right from the get go!
I like that Noah chose to make the player character a girl so he could've have a girl go through the hero's journey while talking shit about Joseph Campbell lol
Taris has one issue really: because the game has a level cap, the longer u stay on Taris, the more levels you put into your starter class and less into jedi levels. You therefore go about underleveled so you save these level ups until you get out of there. Minor minor issye
Killing Bendak on a level one character will forever be my crowning video game achievement, shortly followed by finding out that the magical cage in Dragon Age when cast on your allies turns them into an invincible tank. Just do all the quests but never level up after the tutorial!
36:00 I mean, fascist societies are every bit the same as the Sith in real life. Proclaiming the individual while actually crushing them. Simultaneously, any proper free society based on actual compassion and hope is one that protects the individual and the rights to expand oneself spiritually or mentally.
Yes, but the Jedi teach that you should annihilate the ego and "Let go of attachments, you must" to quote Yoda, while at the same time protecting the system that is antithetical to these values - it is pluralistic and full of self expression. The Sith, to contrast, preach individualism on a personal level and making your own way but in reality, like all facists and capitalists, use these teachings to create a faceless army that can be used as pawns. All the while promising that, if you work hard enough and are ambitious enough, you will eventually get to be a part of the 1% that makes the decisions.
Fun fact: after getting the story from the Sandpeople by trading that valuable Krayt Dragon Pearl, you can fight them and get it back in addition to a boatload of XP.
Well hot damn. I found this channel because the algorithm recommended the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight video to me THIS MORNING. This man knows what I needs.
One thing: Rey actually takes the Jedi texts from the temple in The Last Jedi. You see them at the very last moment of the movie. That's why Yoda says "she has everything she needs" to Luke - because...she does.
She does indeed have the books at the end of TLJ, but seeing as how that whole convo is letting go of the past, culminating in Yoda literally blowing up the old temple, I don't think he's referring to like... old books... in that quote, imo
@@AcolytesOfHorror Well, I believe the idea is that Rey's going to take what is good from the old and build something new and better in the future, rather than just blindly recreating what has already come before. *sighs*
@@AcolytesOfHorror The conversation wasn't about letting go of the past, it's about letting go of the books. The scene goes out of it's way to have Luke say he never even read them. Luke wasn't a hero in Eps 4-6 because he read old books, he was a hero, as he became at the end of TLJ, because he risked his life to save his friends. That's the message of TLJ, that what was meaningful about the past wasn't empty regurgitation or tradition, it was the transcendent meaning which came out of those traditions. That the past shouldn't be thoughtlessly disregarded or embraced. Ray ultimately saves the day by moving rocks, but it's not because moving rocks is in and of itself meaningful but because those rocks were trapping her friends, and that is what makes the powers of a Jedi so meaningful.
@@triggthediscovery Yep, this why I was hoping they would take the jedi order in a more decentralized direction where Rey as a Jedi travels around the galaxy to learn about different people and how they interpret the force. I am only now realizing that that would be a really fitting resolution to the whole idea of the Hero With a Thousand Faces.
That's a big problem I had when I saw it for the first time. They had a chance to throw out the old way, jedi vs sith yadda yadda, and superficially the the whole film built up to that. But by the end they had just recanted everything it seemed like they were leading up to, and all the most important people in the galaxy ended up on the most important ship with the most important books. Laaaaame
@@LPTheGas nah it'd disney so they will all return to status quo in the end. Remember that little game called jedi: fallen order? The game where chris fucking avellone was also involved in? The game with an old mentor figure who showed similar sentiment to kreia's? Oops, turns out he was crazy all along and the jedi order was just misunderstood. Here's your witch waifu, enjoy her company.
@@maxwellkazemba2299 I think the idea was that the next movie would focus more on what the jedi would become. The Last Jedi is a continuation of a larger story after all. It didnt really work out that way though...
This video has really helped me appreciate the first game more than I gave it credit for initially, even as a child you can very much *feel* how the second game rejects the structure of the first; young me really hated Atris because she was the first 'jedi' I encountered that little me could identify as one, Kreia was a force user but her voice and teachings were alien to me and as someone who had been ardently light side and jedi all the way through the first. Whilst Bastilla is brash, she's not unrecognizably so that she is not immediately identifiable as a Jedi, struggling under the weight of destiny as much of the Film and other media's characters do, and yet here was Kreia, asking me to be mindful and mistrusting of the telos ithorians who put so much stock in the healing potency of the force, and questioning if I'm even doing charity out of genuine compassion or simple minded dogma. So when you meet Atris, in her ersatz 'academy', surrounded by robed warriors, with her own council room and pristine, bright white trappings, my young brain could only click and say 'Ah finally, a Jedi to call me on to action' and yet ultimately it was the Exile who chose to find the other council members, whilst Atris simply turns you away. Atris' hatred for you, her clear vindictive nature and ulterior motives, even as far as to use non-force sensitives like a barrier against Sith detection, are all obvious from the beginning when you pay attention past all her faux symbolism that Star Wars is so keen to place absolute value on. But to someone who just came off KOTOR 1, your brain instinctively maps the the Telos academy as the same place of learning and call to action as your experiences on Dantooine in the first. It is the same tragedy of revisiting Dantooine in KOTOR 2, there are no jedi, the only ones mourned by K1, only settlers, beset by mercenaries, not the powerful marauding sith lords but greedy ex-sith foot soldiers against weak militias, both victims of climactic abstract struggles between Jedi and Sith that brought destruction to them, without the viewing it is given in K2, Dantooine is a footnote casualty of adventure, the same way Telos' utterly shattered world is a reminder that no redemption will undo the complete ruin Revan once brought to it's skies. The Exile gathers to defend Telos not with a Republic fleet, but with the scattered castaways of the monomyth; from Onderon's soldiers (who arrive regardless of who you sided with), to Dantooines Miltia/Mercenaries, all forces against a being who is quite literally driven by a hunger for the force itself, a death impulse not even motivated by ambition but compelled themselves by an all compelling force that the Monomyth posits to exist in all stories. Malak is a final challenge for the story's hero, he can be beaten by the hero at the end of his journey, The Exile is the only one who can defeat Nihilus because The Exile's strength is not internal, but is drawn by their great empathy and connection they either inspire (light) or feed from (dark) their companions, they are a wound in the force that draws other's loyalties to them; they exist 'outside' the force, the way Nihilus is controlled by it, and thematically, that is essentially a poison to Nihilus, it's the monomyth attempting to absorb one who refused 'the call'. that is at least my interpretation
Random thought related to the Jedi order and criticisms therein... what's interesting is that *Luke* is a complete repudiation of the Jedi order's dogma. There's extra to this if you consider the EU. Here's some general points that stand out. 1. You can't teach adults or near adults the ways of the force. Luke not only becomes a Jedi Knight, he rebuilds the Jedi order, and is not only Master, but named Grand Master by the many masters of the ways of the force that Luke himself trained. 2. You can't bring someone back from the Dark Side. A weird tenant when you consider how common this is, but Luke himself proved the superiority of his dogma over the old Jedi order's when he redeemed his father... and was later redeemed himself. 3. Emotional bonds are dangerous for Jedi. Maybe but Luke's a very successful Jedi, and he had the benefits of a stable, healthy and emotionally normal upbringing instead of being taken as an infant by aesthetic monks. Luke's New Jedi order tended to take older children in general, beyond masters and knights training their own children before sending them to the praxum, truly young children generally don't receive more than general instruction on the force, and the moral framework therein till they're older. That knights and masters are commonly having children, and that there's numerous weddings depicted or commented on in the various EU media, including Luke's own to Mara Jade. I think a lot of that speaks for itself. 4. At times the Jedi/Sith divide seems to come down to cutting one's self off from all emotion (though never really doing that for... reasons.) While the Sith embrace all the most destructive parts of the flip side of that coin. While not giving a shit is indeed the actual polar opposite of passionate hatred, it seems to me that Luke's fighting with one emotion above all powering the force as it flows through him, that might be far more powerful a weapon against the cloying desires of the Sith than detachment. Love. For his sister. For his father. For his friends. Love for everything and everyone he comes across, determined to do what he can for those who can, or want, to be helped. Not taking any BS either. Luke's hardly a pushover and he's more than happy to defend himself or others in the face of aggression. Which all reminds me of the Dalai Lama... who's got a very similar vibe when you listen to him speak... and like most Eastern pacifists... he's not exactly shy about the concept of self defense either. The New Jedi Order's very successful in many, many respects. Perhaps more so than the Old Jedi Order that preceded it. All based on the far more grounded philosophies of Luke Skywalker that seem, in my mind, more naturally, and in tune with the same. This was a part of the EU that I really, really miss, because the humanist (...err Sapienist? Not sure what that word would be with multiple intelligent life forms sharing a galaxy) tones of the New Jedi Order proving so successful was fascinating. Was that intended? I don't know for sure. It happened over the course of dozens, hundreds of pieces of media... all theoretically approved by Lucasfilm's minders. I don't know if George went that deeply in to it.
I don't think there's a single comment here which reflects the EU/Legend's complete and utter misunderstanding of how the Jedi actually WORK more than this one. Save for the issues with teaching adults a completely new way of life. Everything you talk about. Helping people in the Dark Side to come back to the Light. Having strong, emotional bonds with other people, and actually being a healthy, emotionally mature individual... that's the teachings of the Jedi. That's how the Jedi, the Old Jedi worked. The simple fact that you attribute these as being big, huge, monumental shifts in the Jedi Order as brought on by Luke Skywalker just... really speaks to a fundamental misunderstanding to how the Jedi actually WORK. Look at the movies, and the Clone War show alone. Maybe Rebels too if your willing to stretch. You'll never find anyone teaching you that people fallen to Darkness are beyond help. You'll never find the Jedi teaching you to suppress emotions, or to deny the possibility of strong, emotional bonds with others. And yet, everyone seems so certain that this is what was actually taught. Its fascinating to witness... if not also incredibly sad at how such pointed, black-and-white writing has been twisted and corrupted into something unrecognizable.
@@dolphinsniper Ben Kenobi literally tells Luke Anakin is dead and only Vader remains. Yoda compels Luke to fight Vader. Luke was the only person who thought he could be saved, they literally argue about this in the OG movies. In the prequels, age matters, love and attachment are banned. OP is completely correct. The prequels codified all of these things. Lucas came up with these tight constraints after the EU/Legends writings which is why there is such a contradiction. Luckily it hinges on Luke being the figure of change which works pretty well.
@@benvids No, you and the OP are completely incorrect. Ben and Yoda pushed Luke to be ready for the POSSIBILTY of needing to kill Vader in order to win. They wanted him to be ready to accept that possibility. Rather then trying to force him to kill Vader. It's quite noticeable that they were more than happy to chill with Anakin Skywalker's Force Ghost in the end. More importantly, in the prequels. They explictedly spell out the difference between Love and Attachment! As Anakin himself says. The Jedi are defined by their compassion, their selfless love. It's greedy relationships and the inability to let GO which is the issue. And we see that play out perfectly in the film. Anakin was unable to accept the possibility of Padme dying, and that's why he turned to darkness and butchered a bunch of children. Luke is not a figure of change. Never has, and never will be. Luke is a figure of restoration and healing. Of the old, forgetting ways, being brought to life once more.
Great video as usual, my one complaint here is when you mentioned Canderous. His plotline feels like a regression because it is meant to be one. Every companion character is suffering from trauma, something in their past that they haven't been able to overcome. The Exile helps them mend it in some way (or use it as fuel for further destruction), but it's a self-fulfilling act because doing so makes the Exile stronger. Canderous was betrayed by Revan, broken and basically forced to rebuild the Mandalorians because it's what Revan wanted for his own nebulous goals. Canderous is chasing after Revan's approval, even long after he's disappeared. It's supposed to feel tragic if you played the first game.
No way. We have been waiting actual years for this. I remember watching your old videos when you still.worked at that pizza place, you would talk about maybe doing a kotor review. Now here we are, I geuss its true that with time all good things will come. Thanks for all your hard work noah!!!!!!!
The depth of this video is incredible. You can tell so much care was taken and its all brilliantly delivered fully formed and executed beautifully. You should be so proud of this Noah! We are so lucky to have you and your work
I think one of the reasons Andor is so phenomenal is that it really does eschew a lot of the traditional Star Wars narrative structure - and while I know you usually stick to video game analysis, I hold out a tiny bit of hope you might talk about it some day.
It's a culmination of past Star Wars projects in realizing that there can in fact be stories set in the Star Wars universe set entirely separate from the machinations of narratives pertaining to the tropes of the Monomyth. No grand plan, no wider philosophical symbolism or mythic representation of characters. Just ordinary people, which affords it to a level of political subtext and commentary that wouldn't otherwise be available to Star Wars. Fascism is bad, says Andor, because we see the consequences of it on individuals, both at the receiving end of its violence and those within its systems of management. Hopefully, it won't be the only such project with this clarity of direction and boldness of messaging.
I'm really surprised by your take on Peragus. I really enjoyed it! It was so fun to piece together what happpened there, discover the whole story. Even tho it wasn't great mechanically, I really enjoyed the narrative there. BTW, new to the channel. Good video! :)
The problem with Peragus is less how it goes when you're playing for the first time, but more just how linear it is when you know everything that's coming. There's very little chance to interact with other characters in meaningful ways until about 2/3 of the way through the tutorial (out of the mining tunnels and dorms) other than snarking at Atton over the comlink. The gameplay doesn't even really carry it either since you're stuck with a party of 1 and with very few combat options available to you since you're stuck at such a low level and fighting mining droids, mining droids on 2 legs, mining droids with grenades, turrets and repair orbs. Once you hit Citadel Station, the game opens up with the sidequests, meaningful choices in who you work for, and the first interesting sidequests (like helping the black marketeer brother get all the illicit goods or going to the local authorities to set up a sting, or following the lead of the assassin who tried to kill you (RIP that plot thread)). The writing really starts getting it's chance to shine instead of being one long dungeon encounter with a plot to uncover as you go
1:33:43 "You're basically giving yourself a spiritual prolapse and I bet that just feels awful." It does. But, the first spiritual shit you take after is the best one you'll ever spiritually take!
Great video with lots of good details and points to make about both subjects. I just want to say regarding the monomyth and Campbell's ideas, I always personally read them as a kind of best-fit line explaining the functional similarities between cultures, mythologies, and religions, not as a direct model that they all necessarily fit into but rather shared points in terms of how they serve their societies and how they use symbols to express frames of looking at life. Campbell himself talks about this I believe later on the Power of Myth miniseries (I could be misremembering), but the most useful aspect of the monomyth for me is for its ability to be able to identify the differences, not the similarities, between cultures and religions and so forth. By providing that statistical conceptual baseline, it becomes easier to spot variations from the "metadata" so to speak of the hero's journey and sport the divergences in regional and temporal beliefs and how they adapt and change. In Power of Myth, he discusses a lot of differing myths and stories that vary wildly from the traditional hero's journey, although they can still be considered stories about journeys ending with self-transformation. I think the quote you use about symbols needing to be translucent put it best, the best way to read Campbell in my opinion is to focus on connotation, not denotation, and to understand the monomyth as a myth itself of the era of the time. Even the jungian and freudian concepts informing the monomyth are cultural memes akin to gods for the 20th early post-modernist century.
Hey, remember when we were all talking about when would Noah make this video when he released the Dark Forces one? EDIT: Also, Fem!Revan, eh? Respect, I always went Fem!Revan, Male!Exile.
@@12thLevelSithLord True, Mical is annoying. Though, I did enjoy his little discussions on the "missing piece" of the Jedi Code, and why so many powerful Sith were fallen Jedi. That was interesting.
Some of my favorite games of all time, KotOR 2 more than 1, wish it had gotten the proper time it needed. Between KotOR 2 and New Vegas with the relative disappointment of The Outer Worlds makes me think Obsidian should create sequels and side games for existing series that are critical of the series itself.
One of the elements of the Expanded Universe that was absolutely wonderful and that the Disney Canon has lost, I feel, was how so much of the old legends EU strove to denounce the notion that the galaxy was trapped in this constant back and forth of the Jedi Schism. Especially prior to the Prequels, the conflict between the Empire and the New Republic was framed not background to the conflict between Jedi sects, but instead it was the foreground, with the Jedi conflict occuring in the shadows of this broader ordeal, and which the rest of the galaxy largely would continue along it's way none the wiser. Even as the series moved into the New Jedi Order novels, and the Jedi became more and more and more central to the plot and it's elements, the conflict was steered away from a return to the recursive monomyth by introducing an entirely outside context problem, a villain who was entirely separated from the ordeals of Jedi vs Sith, and who was, infact, divorced from the Force entirely (and quite literally). Sadly, this was to be lost later . . . as the trials and tribulations of Jacen Solo's descent into the darkside, and later the involvement of Aboleth, would bring the Jedi and their conflict squarely into not just the narrative spotlight but the center of events around which the Galaxy itself spins.
"Campbell writes, though I wish he wouldn't..." This slayed me. As someone who focused a lot on the study of mythology in university, I'm absolutely loving this video~
Man, you're inspiring me with your musings. You find the greatest things to quote and disassemble in a high-brow manner. I deeply enjoy it with my entire being and put it to good use in my work... okay, so far a hobby.
I'd like to clarify that the reason this game is oddly based on D&D is because it shares the same engine as neverwinter nights. These games were the only ones outside of neverwinter nights to use the aurora engine.
I think Joseph Campbell interpreted Jung's Anima and Animus archetypes literally, taking the cultural and social representations to correlating with gender as a social construct, and thus "mother" and "father" roles, and instead of integrating the feminine and masculine as Jung did, use representations in others.
kotor 2 is the story that convinced me as a child that you can still find meaning and value in ideas that you fundamentally disagree with, and that simply writing those things off does yourself a disservice. I think this is a message that a lot more people these days need to take to heart.
It is downright criminal that the Dark Souls 3 videos gets triple the views of this only 9 days after it's release. That video is great; this video is also great. In my humble opinion, these videos (by which I mean all of them) are the best content youtube has ever seen on it's platform.
I know he's complained and expressed doubt in the quality of his videos but I love it, I don't need an overly produced, flashy video I'm here for his style, it feels like I'm at a university lecture but I actually want to be there
Having grown up with Star Wars I knew it had influenced my thinking and outlook on life, but I never realised the extent to which I had internalised the Monomyth's precepts. Even through critique it can give someone that feeling of "discovering something outside of yourself." The Hero With a Thousand Faces is something I've been meaning to get around to reading for ages and now it seems that I really will have to, in the meantime you've earned another patron. Best wishes.
No, precisely is as mainstream as it will be for many years. It's just the sexist and freudian parts among a few other that are dated. The video may be making it a little confusing about wich parts are dated though.
35:22 the reason behind the D20 is because BioWare used an updated version of the Aurora engine (Neverwinter Nights engine) and were already familliar with how power curve works in it, so they used what they knew works well instead oif trying to reinvent something that might or might not work.
I love Taris. It's incredible that the game designers decided to make you get so familiar with the world. I got so familiar with the streets and characters that the destruction of Taris actually hurts and shows you how ruthless the enemy is. It doesn't get dull though, there is so much that happens when you're on Taris.
Joseph Campbell being used as a template for storytelling, when his own book was a critique of this phenomena, might seem ironic, but does it not perhaps also reflect a society that no matter how many pieces of critique aimed at it, will try and absorb in an effort to reproduce itself rather than evolve? Sorry if that sounded convoluted. I guess what I mean is, that when an idea gains notoriety, the dominant worldview will try and readjust the idea, even when the idea is a directly an antithesis to the worldview?
I think Lucas was aware of that. He committed to having a mythic story with the main trilogy, and added as much depth as he can (while also merchandizing, but whatever, he’s jus a genius in two ways lol). Then with the prequels, he took that original myth and its impact and tried to truly deconstruct and invert it in subtle ways. The filmmaking maybe didn’t pull it off, but it was a brilliant effort, IMO
I think this video really helps to highlight just how flawed the views of the Jedi were in Legends Material, just how badly represented the Jedi were. People hold up the Jedi Council of the Kotor era of why the Jedi are corrupt, complacent, or simply oppressive individuals. When really, when I look at the Jedi Council of the Kotor Era, I see nothing more than Jedi who failed to do what they should have done. To serve the force is to serve the people, and protect the innocent. The Jedi are not soldiers, yet war could not be avoided. If the Jedi fought against the Mandalorians and helped those who did, rather than shunning them for it, the Jedi Civil War would never have happened. After all, the Jedi in the shows and movies don't teach you to ignore or suppress your emotions. They teach you to control them, to acknowledge and reflect on them, and ensure they do not control you. And they never shun those who leave and wish to walk another path.
That's because they follow the wrong Code. Shit-Urr's version is ... like a cage(=it was written at around the period when the Jedi became power hungry and quite dogmatic). No way for a breathing, living being to exist. The Original Jedi Code though...that's something else! That leads to enlightenment and all kinds of nice things.
@@goransekulic3671 You do know that the 'Codes' that most people talk about are entirely made up by Legends, further highlighting my point about how badly Legends treats and misunderstands the Jedi, right?
the twist was amazing. i never saw it coming at the time was mindblown. in retrospective there are loads of forshadowing moments of course but as a kid i never expected anything until the moment revan takes the helmet off in the cutscene.
Man I have to say, your video essays are a highlight of my RUclips experience. Thank you so much for the efforts and wisdom you put into enlightening us and sparking our thoughts
I cannot properly articulate how much I loved every single individual second of this video. I wish I could wipe my memory and experience it again for the first time. Lol just unreasonably excellent
I’d conjecture that Taris is unpopular among people who have played it before, for the simple reason that nothing you did matters. You spend all those hours trying to improve the conditions, you even find a cure, then the whole planet gets ‘blasted into oblivion’… I remember how frustrating that felt and would wager I’m not alone in this.
Honestly, I just don’t like it because the things that I want to try differently on subsequent playthroughs (visiting planets in a different order, dialogue choices, etc) all happen after it
I sorta love that premise, maybe more so in theory. I mean, anything you do in a game doesn’t matter. You reach the end and the credits roll, all the narratives close and your choices end up petering out into nothing.
@@audiosurfarchive oh, I know. I'm just not used to this kind of release schedule from other youchoobers who go anywhere near as in depth as Noah does.
@Withnail I don't know how or why he would want to make a full essay about that game at this point, despite that I know he will end up doing it for Completionism.. Fuck man. Someone needs to bribe him to get Disco Elysium going ASAP
Obsidian were indeed ambitious with KOTOR 2, but the primary reason it's so unfinished is that LucasArts forced them to release the game 9 months earlier than originally planned.
it was released in only 9 months, but not earlier than planned. it was a short dev cycle for sure but obsidian even admitted they should have just planned accordingly and it could have been avoided
@@larry3828 I love Obsidian, I think they have the best writers in gaming, but they've always been a little sloppy on the more technical side of things.
I was also, expecting him to delve into the mission on Manaan where you are asked to proof the innocence of a Republic official. If you only dig one layer deep, the evidence seems to support his innocence, but go just a bit further, and uncover the truth, it turns out he’s guilty. What would a Jedi do? ‘Proof’ his innocence and support the Republic’s status on Manaan, therefore acting ‘for the greater good’, or do you embrace the truth and deal with the consequences calmly, as they come?
Those who suppress emotions are doomed to fall to them. That’s why Jedi must search their feelings, stay aware of them, and accept them without being driven by them. One must confront the ugly and evil within themselves, and accept that ugly and evil as a part of themselves, held in balance with the beautiful and good. Why? Because ignoring the truth of what is going on in your head or heart is protecting the ego that believes itself strong enough to “not need” emotion or discipline or what-have-you. Suppressing your feelings is serving your sense of self to conform to what YOU THINK you need to be. Suppression of emotion is a self-serving defense mechanism, one of the strongest self-defense mechanisms we possess. Such self-serving actions are of the Sith, because the only reason to suppress those emotions is to appear stronger and better than they really are, which serves only the self and nothing else. Thus, the true Jedi way is not suppression of emotion; it is to accept emotion, and to change what drives you away from that emotion, giving you the mental and emotional tools necessary to navigate the ups and downs of your feelings and find what truly builds something worthwhile.
The first confrontation with Atris is honestly one of my favourite narrative moments in videogames. Granted, I have quite a few of those, but whenever I think of Kotor 2, I think of that moment. It's simply sublime.
That's an interesting argument that Campbell's ideas have inspired so many people who went on to find success & inspire others that we are swimming in iterations on his formulas without necessarily realizing it.
I suppose I'd be in the minority here for actually really liking Taris. Sure, it started a bit slow, but I've yet to see another prologue chapter in any game that even comes close to the amount of roleplaying and careful establishment of setting and atmosphere that it has. By the end, you really feel like you've come to know your character, so much so that it jarred me disproportionately when Dantooine and the main plot came back to slap you in the face. Perhaps this is because I came at the game as an RPG first and a Star Wars game second, but I actually had to put the game down for a bit when I got to Dantooine because of how the whole sequence stripped you of the agency you'd built up to that point. In other words, no other game has made me really FEEL that 'refusal of the call' moment so distinctly, and for that Taris will always have a special place in my heart.
the mono myth sound more and more like Campbells attempt to write a simplified yet complete story of the teaching received by and an initiate on their journey to an adept in the mystery traditions, the hero is the initiate on their journey to enlightenment by balancing the sacred feminine and masculine, destroying the ego and letting go of the material realm.. i base this on Noah's comments on josephs essay when compared to my own study's of secret society's and the occult, i may well have to read the complete essay now.. excellent video as always
I had to stop listening to this essay at multiple points to take down ideas for my own writing. You have a particular flair for distilling the most interesting and powerful aspects of a piece of media and presenting it in a comprehensive and comprehensible fashion.
So, not to stir shit, but are the hardcore Star Wars fans who love KOTOR2 and see it as a cult classic the same ones who dogpiled onto The Last Jedi for not following the established formula? Anyone have any insights on this? Unrelated note: I honestly feel you were a bit too harsh on Campbell...
I have a theory that the dogpiling on TLJ is more due to a far *far* wider audience seeing TLJ than played Kotor 2. Kotor 1 was a big deal but not to the scale of the release of a mainline movie. In 2003/4 video-games were still pretty niche in pop-culture. If Kotor 2 had a playerbase equal to the attendees of TLJ you'd probably see it get dogpiled too.
Also, regarding Joseph Campbell more specifically, while 'Hero With a Thousand Faces' does feel dated in some ways for the reasons you outline, I think it's also important not to lose sight of how admirable of a work it was at the time it was written, for its attempts to take a Universalist approach to mythology in a way that acknowledges and celebrates a diverse array of cultures from all around the world. Hell, I'd argue that Joseph Campbell was far more Progressive in his outlook than some public figures today who are still pursuing an essentially Western chauvinist worldview. Reading 'Hero With a Thousand Faces' again, I get the sense that the gender essentialism in the Monomyth was a less a case of the author projecting his own prejudices, and more because his subject material consisted entirely of didactic morality tales from pre-modern cultures, where gender essentialism was something that went pretty much unquestioned until the relatively recent advent of the modernist(and later post-modernist) paradigm. That said, by no means is the Monomyth the only way to tell a story, and one would hope that after thousands of years, any responsible discussions of Joseph Campbell in our modern age would bring up many of the points that you touched on.
I totally agree. In reading Campbell I find a celebration of the diversity of cultures and the shared ideas across those cultures. It’s no wonder that Lucas was also inspired to mix all of his influences together in making Star Wars.
![Imaginary Monsters: Alan Wake vs. The Evil Within [Franchise Spoilers]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Jjfm4ths2J0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Imaginary Monsters: Alan Wake vs. The Evil Within [Franchise Spoilers]](/img/tr.png)
![The Outer Worlds in Close Critique [Spoilers]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpxidRlZyXc/mqdefault.jpg)
"campbell writes, though I wish he wouldn't"
how it feels to read campbell most of the time
Reading it right now, past first quarter of the book. Don't understand the dislike, its well written and very rich in interesting examples of different world mythos.
Not to mention how insightful it is.
It simply is a great read.
@@MaxYari Because it simplies shit and reaches to make connections lol
@@SiddarthaTB yea, I heard that critique, maybe thats true, still a very interesting read and an interesting intent behinds it.
@@MaxYari if you truly believe it has interesting intent behind it i recommend Maggie Mae Fish's 2-part essay on the topic ruclips.net/video/Q9zR4lWyVN8/видео.html
@@MaxYari yea the connections are interesting to read but you can tell that it was written 3/4 of a century ago
Almost 20 years later, what I mainly remember of my final, operatic confrontation against Malak is proving my superior virtue and righteousness by kiting him over frag mine, after frag mine, after frag mine...
Like a Hero. ;-)
I dropped grenades at my own feet while Malak tried to stab me and then force healed myself and ran around in a circle until my force points regenerated. I wasn't good enough at the game to properly kite him, nor to land the sticky grenades, but I was a light side paragon and was still carrying every grenade I had picked up after Taris, because I had forgotten that they existed up until that moment.
It was not exactly a dignified final battle.
I just went into melee, then ran away with force speed and kite while I get enough force points to heal again and do it all over again, and do it again and again and again for about 40 minutes. Good thing there was no timer.
I doubted when I read "almost 20" years but after thinking for a few seconds I realized it is truly almost 20 years. Kotor games still feel so modern to me. Thanks for making me feel old :)
That got a good snort chuckle out of me
Cheese is the Stronger Force Power.
The end fight against Kreia is really simple for why it happens. She’s your teacher, you’re her prize pupil. As a Sith, she knows that the only way for you to finish your lessons under her is to kill her. As a Jedi, she knows you have to break the master-student bond between you and her to be self-complete. And as an Echani, she believes that people find definition and resolution in conflict.
So, after having manipulated all these foes to stand in your way - Sion, Nihilus, Atris - she sets herself up as the final villain, your last challenge. It’s the only way she knows to finalise your graduation from her schooling. That’s all there is to it; it’s all for you, to help you be the best you that she can.
And that is why we LOVE HER
Kreia isn't an Echani
@@ArvelDreth isn't she? She follows their ways of conflict exposing truth. She and Handmaiden describe the same idea on two different occasions. And her daughter is full echani, not half echani or anything like that.
@@smartalec2001 Kreia doesn't have a daughter. Kreia's worldview is just the Sith Code mixed with Nietzschean philosophy. The fact that one aspect of her beliefs overlaps with one aspect of the Echani's beliefs doesn't mean she's part of the same race as Brianna.
@@ArvelDreth she's Arren Kae, Handmaiden's mother. And she gives Handmaiden's definition of Echani ideas back to you at one point, reworded but synonymical.
There's no RPG I remember more than this. So many of Kreia's words have stuck with me. It's an absolute treat to see your take on these 2 amazing games. You're most appreciated, Noah.
(Gasps)You?!Did not you loved Star Wars never mind KOTOR/Legends.
I have to watch this again when I'm not high... Too much to take in, but sooooo good
I did not expect to see you here Phantom. Glad you’re a fan of Noah’s reviews as well.
For real. I stole so many little quotes from the game for papers in college that it wasn't even funny.
Another reason to love PhantomStrider
"She doesn't have to live up to a reasonable person's standards, however; she has to live up to Cambell's."
Sick burn.
@@bringinthedope5929 try watching the video mate
@@FinneousPJ1 thanks for the suggestion but i did that awhile ago lol. its a 2 hour vid so i could have missed the line, which is why i asked the commenter about it. enjoy your day though mate.
never seen the word mate turned into such sharp knives before
@@BKSF1 lol, not my intent
@@bringinthedope5929 It was a roundabout way for Noah to say that Joseph Campbell was unreasonable.
I always found it hilarious in a dark way how the Juhani quest can end up with her dead. I mean, everybody is willing to sit and do nothing, her master not telling her she survived, the council sending Revan to handle it... And then the 8 intelligence, 0 persuassion Defender blunders in and just offs her. Somehow, they did not realize this was a possible outcome. It's almost as if all the dumb and incompetent Jedi were force-waved upstairs into the council
The phrase "Darth Plagueis the Wise was a fuckin' wannabe nerd" may just be the funniest thing I've heard all month, and I thank you for it.
His phrase sort of offends me. But whatever, I'm here for Darth Revan. Not some Phantom Menace cut-out villain from Episode 3 that mere mentioned of his name being a thermal bomb by Darth Sidious to turn Anakin to the Dark Side...
Last week I asked him to review KOTOR and now hedid, just because I asked. 100% not a coincidence at all he saw my comment and made this in a week.
It’s true, he told me so.
Can you even call yourself a professional youtuber if you can't finish 2 RPGs and make a 2 hour long video about them in a week?
Ask for Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 next please :P
To be fair, lots of people, myself included, have been asking pretty much since the Baldur's Gate review, if not earlier.
Not to steal your thunder, but I'm pretty sure he made this video as I've just finished the first one, and am currently replaying kotor II. But if not for that, I would have guessed that it was your comment too
"And since KOTOR is inexplicably based off of modified 3rd Edition DnD rules..."
It's actually very explicable - one, Lucas had a partnership with DnD publisher Wizards of the Coast at the time (the Star Wars tabletop RPG they released was the same way), and two, it's what the developers were used to, having just come off of the Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights games.
I wish we got more RPGs based off of 3e rules, especially some more Star Wars RPGs. Star Wars is the perfect setting for DnD-style RPGs.
Oh, and fuck THAC0, and 90% of 2eAD&D bullshit.
Still, a more intuitive system would have made more sense. First time I played kotor I knew nothing about dnd and had no idea what d4 was supposed to mean.
@@motharfirecaller3954 I don't think it's very necessary to understand the rules since literally everything is done for you by the computer. The system is intuitive enough that bigger numbers are clearly always better in this system and the game is easy enough that you don't need to use knowledge of the D&D 3.5 rules to min/max your character in order to have fun.
@@comicsans1689 There were literally three whole systems for Star Wars based off of the 3e rules: Star Wars d20, d20 Revised, and Saga Edition.
Joliee's wife didn't join Revan's Sith Empire. She joined Exar Kun's Sith Empire. The time line is really weird, but some fifty years before KOTOR I, a Jedi named Exar Kun turned to the Dark Side and went to war against the Jedi and Republic, turning many Jedi to his side. This is the war that leads up to the Mandalorian Wars which in turn results in the Jedi Civil War.
I've been waiting for this...
Holy shit, wasn´t expecting you here
Yep for years.
You took the words of my mouth
Yeah, well-- I've been waiting for YOU.
*I've been looking forward to this
I think the reason why the Heroes' Journey is so ubiquitous in a lot of western storytelling is because when you break it down to its simples points its basically a schematic for making sure your characters at least go through basic character development, which arguably is essential for good storytelling. Leave safe space, find mentor, learn about the world, face challenges, fail, try again using what you'll learned, succeed.
Agreed. What's interesting about that structure, imo, is not it's only ubiquity but it's broad psychological resonance.
The stories we tell, and the manner in which we tell them, are representations of our own desires, fears and neuroses. The shared elements of human stories across cultures, continents and centuries tell us something about our shared nature, the primal and universal parts of our unconscious mind.
Noah seems to find this divisive, which is ok. I don't agree, I think it's an avenue for understanding our fellow humans, and ourselves in the process. Just my 2 cents.
@@q.parablesque5610 We are not allowed to generalise, to absoerve broad structures, or correlate with reality.
Everyone and everything must be special. Every uniquecircumstance must be observed, every golden rule overturned, every model denoumced as flawed.
Yes, I do despise post modernism, how could you tell.
The monomyth is a reductionist framework. Ots a model, and models of sufficent accuracy is how we can know anything about the world.
If we put out our own eyes over the realisation they capture imperfect images, we will only lose even what little insight we have.
@@q.parablesque5610 I agree with this
Idk, if you're reducing it to a character arc outline, there are more directly applicable, less loaded models. How broad and generous do you have to be with the monomyth so it doesn't grate or ring hollow?
1:25:08 is an example of how actually adhering to models like this crunches down a lot of the world's texture and meaning. It makes me want to interrogate the underlying assumptions and if they're actually all that useful AS a model. Why is it important to universalize mana and libido under the same banner? Do I get more interesting questions out of embracing this idea or rejecting it? etc. etc.
Looking at the monomyth like that, I quite like it as a springboard for comparison, but less so as duct tape.
@@ineednochannelyoutube5384 I am impressed by your ability to create ridiculous strawmen.
One of my friends summed up the thesis of The Hero with a Thousand Faces as "A story... is when something happens."
That's always stuck with me.
Noah reading the names of Patrons: "Don't-read-my-name-I-don't-care"
Don't-read-my-name-I-don't-care: ...
Don't-read-my-name-I-don't-care could have put in something like "empty or noname", yet they chose to make a _statement._
That's not a person that doesn't care, that's an emotional cactus.
@@GeorgeNoiseless that's an absolute legendary lad
Actually, does any patron even care anymore if Noah reads their name off?
@@arnox4554 You'd have to ask each one personally, but as with any Patreon readout I imagine it's the people who put jokes/statements as their names that care the most.
@@arnox4554 I wouldn't mind if he didn't, but appreciate the fact that he does very much. And hearing him getting my name nearly right is always a nice end to a fine watching experience. So to some degree, I do care.
52:20 NITPICK NERD MODE ACTIVATED!: It was Exar Kun that Jolee's wife followed, not Revan and Malak, around 40 years before the start of KOTOR. Kun's story was told in Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi by Tom Veitch and Kevin J. Anderson. (the KOTOR series serves as a sort of pseudo-sequel to Tales of the Jedi)
what a detail. i love eu.
Thanks for this, I was struggling to remember how Jolee and his wife fit into Revan's story.
'You who have defeated us say to yourselves that Babylon is fallen and its works have been overturned. I say to you still that man remains on trial, each man in his dock. Each man is a little war.'
Frank Herbert - Dune
1:33:43 "You've basically given yourself a spiritual prolapse, and I bet that just feels awful." LOL. That's definitely a new sentence.
"life is long and the betrayal of the Self is always a lurking possibility"
Jesus, god... Are you looking into my soul? You don't get to cut me this deep in a Star Wars retrospective.
im 13 and this is deep
@@danielesquivel8936 Sometimes, what you think is shallow is just an ocean that you've failed to judge the depth of.
What does “ betrayal of the Self” even mean?
@@LordJagd I'm a bit late with this, but I would interpret it as unwanted urges and desires threatening to bring down your whole identity. Like a Pedophile who knows that it's wrong to diddle kids trying their best to resist those thoughts and urges.
25:20 "Campbell writes, though I wish he wouldn't..." I love you, man. When I grow up, I want to be a Noah.
did anybody else read this title as "Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2 Vs. Joseph Anderson"
BEGONE, FOUL TONGUE. We don't speak of the uninspired hack here.
I did :D
Kotor is mighty but has it learned Polish in order to review a video game?
@@flopus7
BEGONE, FOUL TONGUE.
"This is your brain on Freud" is fucking brilliant, I chortled while holding my non-phallic cigar.
Side note: I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite channel on the RUclipss. (but for real noah, i love your content)
This comment is really funny))
I love my cigar, but I take it out of my mouth every once in a while!
We'll bang ok?
Bioware threads for the win
Seeing Noah get all theoretical and start to truly discuss games through a theory-based lens (something he already does, but here receives higher focus) like you'd see in the best of cultural studies is God Tier good. I hope we get to see more videos based around cultural theory from you!
Kreia is what happens when you drop Nietzsche in a setting where good and evil are palpable things.
nietzsche would be far more interesting in a world where adherents to master morality can shoot lightning from their fingers
@@travdump209 Pretty much everything would be tbh
Is she? "When power becomes gracious and descends into the visible - such descent I call beauty. And there is nobody from whom I want beauty as much as from you who are powerful: let your kindness be your final self-conquest."
small request: when quoting a book, something meant to be read, please put the words on the screen. It is at least for me, non native speaker, super hard to parse.
Do bots really just proclaim themselves as bots now? That's a really cool part of the algorithm
@@agyratingmonkey I would normally agree but this person has a 15 year old account
Shut up and figure it out
@@agyratingmonkeyyou know, English is a pretty irregular language between spelled and written word. In Spanish you say it and can easily write it, same with french. Bibliography and citations on screen are really helpful for non-natives like myself.
Edit: and native english speaking folk pronounce other languages like shit. Usually you don't know any tongue outside of English and it shows. Particularly shameful when you're in a country supposedly rich economically and culturally with a huge mixed of different nationalities.
I would've never guessed that the we write in books is so different from how we speak that it's hard to understand for a non native speaker. Fascinating!
"The reasons you must fight kreia to the death are flimsy, unsatisfying."
If you win, she has created a student that is a hostile threat to the force and carries her lessons the best--"you are greater than any I have ever trained"
If you lose, she recreates a reverberating force echo that will deafen the galaxy to the force--by inducing the fight with the exile at the source of the wound in the force: Malachor V, which the Exile otherwise carries with her.
For the Exile's future, it is also important not only to resolve her past with Malachor V--either by mastering it or destroying it--but also to severe their Force Bond. Zez-Kai-El tentatively suggests that one killing the other could sever the bond and not just have the consequences of them mutually denying. There are plentiful motivations for the final encounter. There is also the fact that Kreia is an old witch who has accomplished her final task in life and relies on a poison she despises to keep living.
The fact you chose to interact with The Hero With a Thousand Faces in good faith and extract meaning out of it while still acknowledging it's faults, is why I keep coming back. It's what's missing in a lot of current cultural discourse. Thank you for leading by example!
Well said! I couldn't agree more.
How? The only reason Noah comes back to it, as he says in the video, is because it's "anti-colonial", whatever the fuck that means.
@@ichoffski4707 it means it's explicitly critical of how the creation of cultural outgroups is used to justify atrocity and it explicitly places it in the contest of colonial atrocity.
@@ichoffski4707 while also being casually racist apparently
@@AdumbroDeus waaah, imperialism bad
Oof, I've seen so many critics I enjoyed uncritically reproduce this laundered version of Campbell's hero's journey as The One Way To Tell Stories, very refreshing video right from the get go!
I like that Noah chose to make the player character a girl so he could've have a girl go through the hero's journey while talking shit about Joseph Campbell lol
the best May 4th present a fella could ask for
Well aside from The Bad Batch release.
I love Taris. Even after replaying this game countless times. The lower city/undercity is one of my favorite parts of the entire game.
Taris has one issue really: because the game has a level cap, the longer u stay on Taris, the more levels you put into your starter class and less into jedi levels. You therefore go about underleveled so you save these level ups until you get out of there. Minor minor issye
@@robertwizzy666 Not really an issue if you do a good character build. All you need is strength, dexterity, and constitution in that order.
@@comicsans1689 it's less about being efficient and more about wanting more jedi goodies.
@@robertwizzy666 How about do all the content on Taris, but once you get to the desired level don't level up further?
Killing Bendak on a level one character will forever be my crowning video game achievement, shortly followed by finding out that the magical cage in Dragon Age when cast on your allies turns them into an invincible tank.
Just do all the quests but never level up after the tutorial!
36:00 I mean, fascist societies are every bit the same as the Sith in real life. Proclaiming the individual while actually crushing them. Simultaneously, any proper free society based on actual compassion and hope is one that protects the individual and the rights to expand oneself spiritually or mentally.
Yes, but the Jedi teach that you should annihilate the ego and "Let go of attachments, you must" to quote Yoda, while at the same time protecting the system that is antithetical to these values - it is pluralistic and full of self expression.
The Sith, to contrast, preach individualism on a personal level and making your own way but in reality, like all facists and capitalists, use these teachings to create a faceless army that can be used as pawns. All the while promising that, if you work hard enough and are ambitious enough, you will eventually get to be a part of the 1% that makes the decisions.
*like all fascists and communists**
Fun fact: after getting the story from the Sandpeople by trading that valuable Krayt Dragon Pearl, you can fight them and get it back in addition to a boatload of XP.
Video games!
@@Reubel Good Cop Bad Cop is one thing.
S C A N N E R C O P is the best thing.
Or just save before you do, hear the story and reload. For the lightsiders
Finance major identified
Which they deserve and what is a moral thing to do. I hate them.
Well hot damn. I found this channel because the algorithm recommended the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight video to me THIS MORNING. This man knows what I needs.
Noah's channel is one of the best on RUclips, hands down
One thing: Rey actually takes the Jedi texts from the temple in The Last Jedi. You see them at the very last moment of the movie.
That's why Yoda says "she has everything she needs" to Luke - because...she does.
She does indeed have the books at the end of TLJ, but seeing as how that whole convo is letting go of the past, culminating in Yoda literally blowing up the old temple, I don't think he's referring to like... old books... in that quote, imo
@@AcolytesOfHorror Well, I believe the idea is that Rey's going to take what is good from the old and build something new and better in the future, rather than just blindly recreating what has already come before.
*sighs*
@@AcolytesOfHorror The conversation wasn't about letting go of the past, it's about letting go of the books. The scene goes out of it's way to have Luke say he never even read them. Luke wasn't a hero in Eps 4-6 because he read old books, he was a hero, as he became at the end of TLJ, because he risked his life to save his friends.
That's the message of TLJ, that what was meaningful about the past wasn't empty regurgitation or tradition, it was the transcendent meaning which came out of those traditions. That the past shouldn't be thoughtlessly disregarded or embraced. Ray ultimately saves the day by moving rocks, but it's not because moving rocks is in and of itself meaningful but because those rocks were trapping her friends, and that is what makes the powers of a Jedi so meaningful.
@@triggthediscovery Yep, this why I was hoping they would take the jedi order in a more decentralized direction where Rey as a Jedi travels around the galaxy to learn about different people and how they interpret the force. I am only now realizing that that would be a really fitting resolution to the whole idea of the Hero With a Thousand Faces.
@@AcolytesOfHorror but he is. He tells Luke what he thinks Luke needs to hear to unstuck himself while winking at the audience
Correction: The Last Jedi showed Rey to have taken the books before she left, they're stashed away on the Falcon
That's a big problem I had when I saw it for the first time. They had a chance to throw out the old way, jedi vs sith yadda yadda, and superficially the the whole film built up to that. But by the end they had just recanted everything it seemed like they were leading up to, and all the most important people in the galaxy ended up on the most important ship with the most important books. Laaaaame
@@maxwellkazemba2299 I dunno. I take it as the Jedi order as resurrected under Rey will be informed by the old ways but not bound by them.
@@LPTheGas nah it'd disney so they will all return to status quo in the end. Remember that little game called jedi: fallen order? The game where chris fucking avellone was also involved in? The game with an old mentor figure who showed similar sentiment to kreia's?
Oops, turns out he was crazy all along and the jedi order was just misunderstood. Here's your witch waifu, enjoy her company.
@@maxwellkazemba2299 its not a contrivence that all the important ppl end up on the most important ship imo, thats just how the force works
@@maxwellkazemba2299 I think the idea was that the next movie would focus more on what the jedi would become. The Last Jedi is a continuation of a larger story after all. It didnt really work out that way though...
This video has really helped me appreciate the first game more than I gave it credit for initially, even as a child you can very much *feel* how the second game rejects the structure of the first; young me really hated Atris because she was the first 'jedi' I encountered that little me could identify as one, Kreia was a force user but her voice and teachings were alien to me and as someone who had been ardently light side and jedi all the way through the first.
Whilst Bastilla is brash, she's not unrecognizably so that she is not immediately identifiable as a Jedi, struggling under the weight of destiny as much of the Film and other media's characters do, and yet here was Kreia, asking me to be mindful and mistrusting of the telos ithorians who put so much stock in the healing potency of the force, and questioning if I'm even doing charity out of genuine compassion or simple minded dogma.
So when you meet Atris, in her ersatz 'academy', surrounded by robed warriors, with her own council room and pristine, bright white trappings, my young brain could only click and say 'Ah finally, a Jedi to call me on to action' and yet ultimately it was the Exile who chose to find the other council members, whilst Atris simply turns you away. Atris' hatred for you, her clear vindictive nature and ulterior motives, even as far as to use non-force sensitives like a barrier against Sith detection, are all obvious from the beginning when you pay attention past all her faux symbolism that Star Wars is so keen to place absolute value on. But to someone who just came off KOTOR 1, your brain instinctively maps the the Telos academy as the same place of learning and call to action as your experiences on Dantooine in the first.
It is the same tragedy of revisiting Dantooine in KOTOR 2, there are no jedi, the only ones mourned by K1, only settlers, beset by mercenaries, not the powerful marauding sith lords but greedy ex-sith foot soldiers against weak militias, both victims of climactic abstract struggles between Jedi and Sith that brought destruction to them, without the viewing it is given in K2, Dantooine is a footnote casualty of adventure, the same way Telos' utterly shattered world is a reminder that no redemption will undo the complete ruin Revan once brought to it's skies.
The Exile gathers to defend Telos not with a Republic fleet, but with the scattered castaways of the monomyth; from Onderon's soldiers (who arrive regardless of who you sided with), to Dantooines Miltia/Mercenaries, all forces against a being who is quite literally driven by a hunger for the force itself, a death impulse not even motivated by ambition but compelled themselves by an all compelling force that the Monomyth posits to exist in all stories.
Malak is a final challenge for the story's hero, he can be beaten by the hero at the end of his journey, The Exile is the only one who can defeat Nihilus because The Exile's strength is not internal, but is drawn by their great empathy and connection they either inspire (light) or feed from (dark) their companions, they are a wound in the force that draws other's loyalties to them; they exist 'outside' the force, the way Nihilus is controlled by it, and thematically, that is essentially a poison to Nihilus, it's the monomyth attempting to absorb one who refused 'the call'. that is at least my interpretation
This was beautiful to read.
Thanks for the insight Big Bo
Random thought related to the Jedi order and criticisms therein... what's interesting is that *Luke* is a complete repudiation of the Jedi order's dogma. There's extra to this if you consider the EU. Here's some general points that stand out.
1. You can't teach adults or near adults the ways of the force. Luke not only becomes a Jedi Knight, he rebuilds the Jedi order, and is not only Master, but named Grand Master by the many masters of the ways of the force that Luke himself trained.
2. You can't bring someone back from the Dark Side. A weird tenant when you consider how common this is, but Luke himself proved the superiority of his dogma over the old Jedi order's when he redeemed his father... and was later redeemed himself.
3. Emotional bonds are dangerous for Jedi. Maybe but Luke's a very successful Jedi, and he had the benefits of a stable, healthy and emotionally normal upbringing instead of being taken as an infant by aesthetic monks. Luke's New Jedi order tended to take older children in general, beyond masters and knights training their own children before sending them to the praxum, truly young children generally don't receive more than general instruction on the force, and the moral framework therein till they're older. That knights and masters are commonly having children, and that there's numerous weddings depicted or commented on in the various EU media, including Luke's own to Mara Jade. I think a lot of that speaks for itself.
4. At times the Jedi/Sith divide seems to come down to cutting one's self off from all emotion (though never really doing that for... reasons.) While the Sith embrace all the most destructive parts of the flip side of that coin. While not giving a shit is indeed the actual polar opposite of passionate hatred, it seems to me that Luke's fighting with one emotion above all powering the force as it flows through him, that might be far more powerful a weapon against the cloying desires of the Sith than detachment. Love. For his sister. For his father. For his friends. Love for everything and everyone he comes across, determined to do what he can for those who can, or want, to be helped. Not taking any BS either. Luke's hardly a pushover and he's more than happy to defend himself or others in the face of aggression. Which all reminds me of the Dalai Lama... who's got a very similar vibe when you listen to him speak... and like most Eastern pacifists... he's not exactly shy about the concept of self defense either.
The New Jedi Order's very successful in many, many respects. Perhaps more so than the Old Jedi Order that preceded it. All based on the far more grounded philosophies of Luke Skywalker that seem, in my mind, more naturally, and in tune with the same. This was a part of the EU that I really, really miss, because the humanist (...err Sapienist? Not sure what that word would be with multiple intelligent life forms sharing a galaxy) tones of the New Jedi Order proving so successful was fascinating. Was that intended? I don't know for sure. It happened over the course of dozens, hundreds of pieces of media... all theoretically approved by Lucasfilm's minders. I don't know if George went that deeply in to it.
Top tier comment.
I don't think there's a single comment here which reflects the EU/Legend's complete and utter misunderstanding of how the Jedi actually WORK more than this one.
Save for the issues with teaching adults a completely new way of life. Everything you talk about. Helping people in the Dark Side to come back to the Light. Having strong, emotional bonds with other people, and actually being a healthy, emotionally mature individual... that's the teachings of the Jedi. That's how the Jedi, the Old Jedi worked. The simple fact that you attribute these as being big, huge, monumental shifts in the Jedi Order as brought on by Luke Skywalker just... really speaks to a fundamental misunderstanding to how the Jedi actually WORK.
Look at the movies, and the Clone War show alone. Maybe Rebels too if your willing to stretch. You'll never find anyone teaching you that people fallen to Darkness are beyond help. You'll never find the Jedi teaching you to suppress emotions, or to deny the possibility of strong, emotional bonds with others. And yet, everyone seems so certain that this is what was actually taught. Its fascinating to witness... if not also incredibly sad at how such pointed, black-and-white writing has been twisted and corrupted into something unrecognizable.
@@dolphinsniper Exactly! So much of online Jedi Criticism is always directed at an incorrect fandom-constructed image of it
@@dolphinsniper Ben Kenobi literally tells Luke Anakin is dead and only Vader remains. Yoda compels Luke to fight Vader. Luke was the only person who thought he could be saved, they literally argue about this in the OG movies. In the prequels, age matters, love and attachment are banned.
OP is completely correct. The prequels codified all of these things. Lucas came up with these tight constraints after the EU/Legends writings which is why there is such a contradiction. Luckily it hinges on Luke being the figure of change which works pretty well.
@@benvids No, you and the OP are completely incorrect.
Ben and Yoda pushed Luke to be ready for the POSSIBILTY of needing to kill Vader in order to win. They wanted him to be ready to accept that possibility. Rather then trying to force him to kill Vader. It's quite noticeable that they were more than happy to chill with Anakin Skywalker's Force Ghost in the end.
More importantly, in the prequels. They explictedly spell out the difference between Love and Attachment! As Anakin himself says. The Jedi are defined by their compassion, their selfless love. It's greedy relationships and the inability to let GO which is the issue. And we see that play out perfectly in the film. Anakin was unable to accept the possibility of Padme dying, and that's why he turned to darkness and butchered a bunch of children.
Luke is not a figure of change. Never has, and never will be. Luke is a figure of restoration and healing. Of the old, forgetting ways, being brought to life once more.
Great video as usual, my one complaint here is when you mentioned Canderous. His plotline feels like a regression because it is meant to be one. Every companion character is suffering from trauma, something in their past that they haven't been able to overcome. The Exile helps them mend it in some way (or use it as fuel for further destruction), but it's a self-fulfilling act because doing so makes the Exile stronger. Canderous was betrayed by Revan, broken and basically forced to rebuild the Mandalorians because it's what Revan wanted for his own nebulous goals. Canderous is chasing after Revan's approval, even long after he's disappeared. It's supposed to feel tragic if you played the first game.
No way. We have been waiting actual years for this. I remember watching your old videos when you still.worked at that pizza place, you would talk about maybe doing a kotor review. Now here we are, I geuss its true that with time all good things will come. Thanks for all your hard work noah!!!!!!!
The depth of this video is incredible. You can tell so much care was taken and its all brilliantly delivered fully formed and executed beautifully. You should be so proud of this Noah! We are so lucky to have you and your work
This video has been years and years in the making, and I couldn't be happier it's finally here!
I think one of the reasons Andor is so phenomenal is that it really does eschew a lot of the traditional Star Wars narrative structure - and while I know you usually stick to video game analysis, I hold out a tiny bit of hope you might talk about it some day.
It's a culmination of past Star Wars projects in realizing that there can in fact be stories set in the Star Wars universe set entirely separate from the machinations of narratives pertaining to the tropes of the Monomyth. No grand plan, no wider philosophical symbolism or mythic representation of characters. Just ordinary people, which affords it to a level of political subtext and commentary that wouldn't otherwise be available to Star Wars. Fascism is bad, says Andor, because we see the consequences of it on individuals, both at the receiving end of its violence and those within its systems of management. Hopefully, it won't be the only such project with this clarity of direction and boldness of messaging.
I'm really surprised by your take on Peragus. I really enjoyed it! It was so fun to piece together what happpened there, discover the whole story. Even tho it wasn't great mechanically, I really enjoyed the narrative there. BTW, new to the channel. Good video! :)
I loved it too, partly because of the intro where you play as the droid. I love the droid, and the gameplay of exploring and hacking.
The problem with Peragus is less how it goes when you're playing for the first time, but more just how linear it is when you know everything that's coming. There's very little chance to interact with other characters in meaningful ways until about 2/3 of the way through the tutorial (out of the mining tunnels and dorms) other than snarking at Atton over the comlink. The gameplay doesn't even really carry it either since you're stuck with a party of 1 and with very few combat options available to you since you're stuck at such a low level and fighting mining droids, mining droids on 2 legs, mining droids with grenades, turrets and repair orbs.
Once you hit Citadel Station, the game opens up with the sidequests, meaningful choices in who you work for, and the first interesting sidequests (like helping the black marketeer brother get all the illicit goods or going to the local authorities to set up a sting, or following the lead of the assassin who tried to kill you (RIP that plot thread)). The writing really starts getting it's chance to shine instead of being one long dungeon encounter with a plot to uncover as you go
1:33:43 "You're basically giving yourself a spiritual prolapse and I bet that just feels awful."
It does. But, the first spiritual shit you take after is the best one you'll ever spiritually take!
I probably started wondering five years ago how Noah considers KOTOR.
Great video with lots of good details and points to make about both subjects. I just want to say regarding the monomyth and Campbell's ideas, I always personally read them as a kind of best-fit line explaining the functional similarities between cultures, mythologies, and religions, not as a direct model that they all necessarily fit into but rather shared points in terms of how they serve their societies and how they use symbols to express frames of looking at life.
Campbell himself talks about this I believe later on the Power of Myth miniseries (I could be misremembering), but the most useful aspect of the monomyth for me is for its ability to be able to identify the differences, not the similarities, between cultures and religions and so forth. By providing that statistical conceptual baseline, it becomes easier to spot variations from the "metadata" so to speak of the hero's journey and sport the divergences in regional and temporal beliefs and how they adapt and change. In Power of Myth, he discusses a lot of differing myths and stories that vary wildly from the traditional hero's journey, although they can still be considered stories about journeys ending with self-transformation.
I think the quote you use about symbols needing to be translucent put it best, the best way to read Campbell in my opinion is to focus on connotation, not denotation, and to understand the monomyth as a myth itself of the era of the time. Even the jungian and freudian concepts informing the monomyth are cultural memes akin to gods for the 20th early post-modernist century.
+
Hey, remember when we were all talking about when would Noah make this video when he released the Dark Forces one?
EDIT: Also, Fem!Revan, eh? Respect, I always went Fem!Revan, Male!Exile.
Male!Exile is the better exile. Scholar guy sucks.
@@12thLevelSithLord True, Mical is annoying. Though, I did enjoy his little discussions on the "missing piece" of the Jedi Code, and why so many powerful Sith were fallen Jedi. That was interesting.
I played fem!exile with the mod to ditch Mical for the Handmaiden.
Male!Revan and Fem!Exile(Mitra Surik) are canon, though.
@@erichzannbusoumuzan Who the 'canon' is, is irrelevant. Especially in this kind of game.
Some of my favorite games of all time, KotOR 2 more than 1, wish it had gotten the proper time it needed.
Between KotOR 2 and New Vegas with the relative disappointment of The Outer Worlds makes me think Obsidian should create sequels and side games for existing series that are critical of the series itself.
Holy fuck I was looking for something to listen to until I fall asleep, was not expecting the best Star Wars essay on youtube
This is probably THE most challenging gaming related video in the entire platform.
I'm dealing with finals for my 2nd semester of "real" college and your videos are the only thing keeping me together.
One of the elements of the Expanded Universe that was absolutely wonderful and that the Disney Canon has lost, I feel, was how so much of the old legends EU strove to denounce the notion that the galaxy was trapped in this constant back and forth of the Jedi Schism.
Especially prior to the Prequels, the conflict between the Empire and the New Republic was framed not background to the conflict between Jedi sects, but instead it was the foreground, with the Jedi conflict occuring in the shadows of this broader ordeal, and which the rest of the galaxy largely would continue along it's way none the wiser.
Even as the series moved into the New Jedi Order novels, and the Jedi became more and more and more central to the plot and it's elements, the conflict was steered away from a return to the recursive monomyth by introducing an entirely outside context problem, a villain who was entirely separated from the ordeals of Jedi vs Sith, and who was, infact, divorced from the Force entirely (and quite literally).
Sadly, this was to be lost later . . . as the trials and tribulations of Jacen Solo's descent into the darkside, and later the involvement of Aboleth, would bring the Jedi and their conflict squarely into not just the narrative spotlight but the center of events around which the Galaxy itself spins.
"Campbell writes, though I wish he wouldn't..." This slayed me. As someone who focused a lot on the study of mythology in university, I'm absolutely loving this video~
Why? Blanket hatred for Campbell without being able to state why seems to be common around here.
@@scparker6893 It's not irrational hatred for Campbell. A part of reading his work fairly is criticising the problematic aspects.
@@scparker6893 That's because people came to comment on the video, not debate your fetish for Campbell.
@@scparker6893 Joseph Campbell isn't going to fuck you, dude.
"Campbell writes-though I wish he wouldn't" is an all-timer.
Man, you're inspiring me with your musings. You find the greatest things to quote and disassemble in a high-brow manner. I deeply enjoy it with my entire being and put it to good use in my work... okay, so far a hobby.
KOTOR and The Hero with a Thousand Faces in a single sentence? Yes, please.
My reaction exactly.
I'd like to clarify that the reason this game is oddly based on D&D is because it shares the same engine as neverwinter nights. These games were the only ones outside of neverwinter nights to use the aurora engine.
Didn't The Witcher 1 also use Aurora?
I think Joseph Campbell interpreted Jung's Anima and Animus archetypes literally, taking the cultural and social representations to correlating with gender as a social construct, and thus "mother" and "father" roles, and instead of integrating the feminine and masculine as Jung did, use representations in others.
Yeah I was surprised how much he fingered Freud as Campbell’s main psychological influence, given Campbells clear devotion to Jung.
You’ve got some amazing videos but this one has blown my mind. I suspect I’ll be returning to this one regularly. Thank you!
kotor 2 is the story that convinced me as a child that you can still find meaning and value in ideas that you fundamentally disagree with, and that simply writing those things off does yourself a disservice. I think this is a message that a lot more people these days need to take to heart.
oh my god this is literally perfection
Noah is the only RUclipsr who has notifications for me. Cheers from Hungary!
Coming back to this wonderful piece
thanks to PamphleTyr.
It is downright criminal that the Dark Souls 3 videos gets triple the views of this only 9 days after it's release. That video is great; this video is also great. In my humble opinion, these videos (by which I mean all of them) are the best content youtube has ever seen on it's platform.
Nothing else goes as hard as his essays huh?
I know he's complained and expressed doubt in the quality of his videos but I love it, I don't need an overly produced, flashy video I'm here for his style, it feels like I'm at a university lecture but I actually want to be there
Seriously. His topics are about games we've played and not uninteresting subjects we'll never use in life.
2 hours of the most well spoken man on RUclips! Thank you for the video Noah. It's always a treat to hear your perspective, regardless of the topic.
Having grown up with Star Wars I knew it had influenced my thinking and outlook on life, but I never realised the extent to which I had internalised the Monomyth's precepts. Even through critique it can give someone that feeling of "discovering something outside of yourself." The Hero With a Thousand Faces is something I've been meaning to get around to reading for ages and now it seems that I really will have to, in the meantime you've earned another patron. Best wishes.
Just in awe at how good you are at this
My favorite piece of lore is that Tatooine is the true homeworld of humanity, and that the Jawas and Sand People are their kin.
That's not true in Legends.
Thats not known in legends.
Campbell is old school? Huh. Campbell was the centerpoint of my main thesis 10+ years ago. Has the world changed *that* much?
No, precisely is as mainstream as it will be for many years. It's just the sexist and freudian parts among a few other that are dated. The video may be making it a little confusing about wich parts are dated though.
Unfortunately yes.
@@VashdaCrash Its sexist by your interpretation. A mindset geared toward finding sexism at the outset.
@@scparker6893 yea, I don't like that form of discrimination.
Campbells works were the centerpoint of your thesis. Campbell the man was probably born before his hometown had electricity.
"You wont encounter anything so upsetting that a teenage twilight couldn't handle it"
Zaalbar, kill mission.
35:22 the reason behind the D20 is because BioWare used an updated version of the Aurora engine (Neverwinter Nights engine) and were already familliar with how power curve works in it, so they used what they knew works well instead oif trying to reinvent something that might or might not work.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one on Earth who really likes the Peragus intro level. Regardless, very insightful essay!
I love Taris. It's incredible that the game designers decided to make you get so familiar with the world. I got so familiar with the streets and characters that the destruction of Taris actually hurts and shows you how ruthless the enemy is. It doesn't get dull though, there is so much that happens when you're on Taris.
Joseph Campbell being used as a template for storytelling, when his own book was a critique of this phenomena, might seem ironic, but does it not perhaps also reflect a society that no matter how many pieces of critique aimed at it, will try and absorb in an effort to reproduce itself rather than evolve? Sorry if that sounded convoluted. I guess what I mean is, that when an idea gains notoriety, the dominant worldview will try and readjust the idea, even when the idea is a directly an antithesis to the worldview?
I think Lucas was aware of that. He committed to having a mythic story with the main trilogy, and added as much depth as he can (while also merchandizing, but whatever, he’s jus a genius in two ways lol). Then with the prequels, he took that original myth and its impact and tried to truly deconstruct and invert it in subtle ways. The filmmaking maybe didn’t pull it off, but it was a brilliant effort, IMO
I think this video really helps to highlight just how flawed the views of the Jedi were in Legends Material, just how badly represented the Jedi were. People hold up the Jedi Council of the Kotor era of why the Jedi are corrupt, complacent, or simply oppressive individuals. When really, when I look at the Jedi Council of the Kotor Era, I see nothing more than Jedi who failed to do what they should have done. To serve the force is to serve the people, and protect the innocent. The Jedi are not soldiers, yet war could not be avoided. If the Jedi fought against the Mandalorians and helped those who did, rather than shunning them for it, the Jedi Civil War would never have happened.
After all, the Jedi in the shows and movies don't teach you to ignore or suppress your emotions. They teach you to control them, to acknowledge and reflect on them, and ensure they do not control you. And they never shun those who leave and wish to walk another path.
That's because they follow the wrong Code. Shit-Urr's version is ... like a cage(=it was written at around the period when the Jedi became power hungry and quite dogmatic). No way for a breathing, living being to exist. The Original Jedi Code though...that's something else! That leads to enlightenment and all kinds of nice things.
@@goransekulic3671 You do know that the 'Codes' that most people talk about are entirely made up by Legends, further highlighting my point about how badly Legends treats and misunderstands the Jedi, right?
Never have I read a title more specifically catered to my interest :D Thanks Noah and all the best to you
Hell yeah! My comment on your last video was me asking for this!!
the twist was amazing. i never saw it coming at the time was mindblown.
in retrospective there are loads of forshadowing moments of course but as a kid i never expected anything until the moment revan takes the helmet off in the cutscene.
Man I have to say, your video essays are a highlight of my RUclips experience. Thank you so much for the efforts and wisdom you put into enlightening us and sparking our thoughts
I cannot properly articulate how much I loved every single individual second of this video.
I wish I could wipe my memory and experience it again for the first time.
Lol just unreasonably excellent
Try smoking weed while you watch them, you'll enjoy it just as much but forget a lot of it.
I'm watching this for the second time this year.
I’d conjecture that Taris is unpopular among people who have played it before, for the simple reason that nothing you did matters. You spend all those hours trying to improve the conditions, you even find a cure, then the whole planet gets ‘blasted into oblivion’… I remember how frustrating that felt and would wager I’m not alone in this.
Honestly, I just don’t like it because the things that I want to try differently on subsequent playthroughs (visiting planets in a different order, dialogue choices, etc) all happen after it
I sorta love that premise, maybe more so in theory. I mean, anything you do in a game doesn’t matter. You reach the end and the credits roll, all the narratives close and your choices end up petering out into nothing.
TWO IN A ROW?! And so soon?! By the Gods man, I hope you rest sometimes.
He's capitalizing on May The Fourth meme.
Galaxy brain Noah content release schedule right there
@@audiosurfarchive oh, I know. I'm just not used to this kind of release schedule from other youchoobers who go anywhere near as in depth as Noah does.
@@itgms He goes in bursts it seems.
Still waiting for TehSnakerer to hurry the fuck up. Those fools paying him to Yakuza were a mistake.
@Withnail I don't know how or why he would want to make a full essay about that game at this point, despite that I know he will end up doing it for Completionism..
Fuck man. Someone needs to bribe him to get Disco Elysium going ASAP
Obsidian were indeed ambitious with KOTOR 2, but the primary reason it's so unfinished is that LucasArts forced them to release the game 9 months earlier than originally planned.
it was released in only 9 months, but not earlier than planned. it was a short dev cycle for sure but obsidian even admitted they should have just planned accordingly and it could have been avoided
@@larry3828 I love Obsidian, I think they have the best writers in gaming, but they've always been a little sloppy on the more technical side of things.
I've been so excited for this I have been avoiding watching it because I don't want it to be over
wow!! 21:9 widescreen crew member reporting in!
I was also, expecting him to delve into the mission on Manaan where you are asked to proof the innocence of a Republic official.
If you only dig one layer deep, the evidence seems to support his innocence, but go just a bit further, and uncover the truth, it turns out he’s guilty.
What would a Jedi do? ‘Proof’ his innocence and support the Republic’s status on Manaan, therefore acting ‘for the greater good’, or do you embrace the truth and deal with the consequences calmly, as they come?
So much said about kotor and yet you found a different angle, great video!
"Lookin' at you, Anakin Skywalker! Sort that Padme shit out!"
-some Jedi somewhere probably
Noah never ceases to amaze me with his wit.
Those who suppress emotions are doomed to fall to them. That’s why Jedi must search their feelings, stay aware of them, and accept them without being driven by them. One must confront the ugly and evil within themselves, and accept that ugly and evil as a part of themselves, held in balance with the beautiful and good. Why? Because ignoring the truth of what is going on in your head or heart is protecting the ego that believes itself strong enough to “not need” emotion or discipline or what-have-you. Suppressing your feelings is serving your sense of self to conform to what YOU THINK you need to be. Suppression of emotion is a self-serving defense mechanism, one of the strongest self-defense mechanisms we possess. Such self-serving actions are of the Sith, because the only reason to suppress those emotions is to appear stronger and better than they really are, which serves only the self and nothing else.
Thus, the true Jedi way is not suppression of emotion; it is to accept emotion, and to change what drives you away from that emotion, giving you the mental and emotional tools necessary to navigate the ups and downs of your feelings and find what truly builds something worthwhile.
The first confrontation with Atris is honestly one of my favourite narrative moments in videogames. Granted, I have quite a few of those, but whenever I think of Kotor 2, I think of that moment. It's simply sublime.
That's an interesting argument that Campbell's ideas have inspired so many people who went on to find success & inspire others that we are swimming in iterations on his formulas without necessarily realizing it.
1:38:55
"It's like poetry, they rhyme"
Feels like Christmas in May
I say without reservation that I have been waiting for this since Extra Credits directed me to your channel waaay back in the day.
Now I remember how I got into this channel, thanks :)
I suppose I'd be in the minority here for actually really liking Taris. Sure, it started a bit slow, but I've yet to see another prologue chapter in any game that even comes close to the amount of roleplaying and careful establishment of setting and atmosphere that it has. By the end, you really feel like you've come to know your character, so much so that it jarred me disproportionately when Dantooine and the main plot came back to slap you in the face. Perhaps this is because I came at the game as an RPG first and a Star Wars game second, but I actually had to put the game down for a bit when I got to Dantooine because of how the whole sequence stripped you of the agency you'd built up to that point. In other words, no other game has made me really FEEL that 'refusal of the call' moment so distinctly, and for that Taris will always have a special place in my heart.
the mono myth sound more and more like Campbells attempt to write a simplified yet complete story of the teaching received by and an initiate on their journey to an adept in the mystery traditions, the hero is the initiate on their journey to enlightenment by balancing the sacred feminine and masculine, destroying the ego and letting go of the material realm.. i base this on Noah's comments on josephs essay when compared to my own study's of secret society's and the occult, i may well have to read the complete essay now.. excellent video as always
I had to stop listening to this essay at multiple points to take down ideas for my own writing. You have a particular flair for distilling the most interesting and powerful aspects of a piece of media and presenting it in a comprehensive and comprehensible fashion.
So, not to stir shit, but are the hardcore Star Wars fans who love KOTOR2 and see it as a cult classic the same ones who dogpiled onto The Last Jedi for not following the established formula? Anyone have any insights on this?
Unrelated note: I honestly feel you were a bit too harsh on Campbell...
I have a theory that the dogpiling on TLJ is more due to a far *far* wider audience seeing TLJ than played Kotor 2.
Kotor 1 was a big deal but not to the scale of the release of a mainline movie. In 2003/4 video-games were still pretty niche in pop-culture.
If Kotor 2 had a playerbase equal to the attendees of TLJ you'd probably see it get dogpiled too.
alot of the people that hate tlj only watched the movies and never touched kotor 2.
Also, regarding Joseph Campbell more specifically, while 'Hero With a Thousand Faces' does feel dated in some ways for the reasons you outline, I think it's also important not to lose sight of how admirable of a work it was at the time it was written, for its attempts to take a Universalist approach to mythology in a way that acknowledges and celebrates a diverse array of cultures from all around the world. Hell, I'd argue that Joseph Campbell was far more Progressive in his outlook than some public figures today who are still pursuing an essentially Western chauvinist worldview.
Reading 'Hero With a Thousand Faces' again, I get the sense that the gender essentialism in the Monomyth was a less a case of the author projecting his own prejudices, and more because his subject material consisted entirely of didactic morality tales from pre-modern cultures, where gender essentialism was something that went pretty much unquestioned until the relatively recent advent of the modernist(and later post-modernist) paradigm.
That said, by no means is the Monomyth the only way to tell a story, and one would hope that after thousands of years, any responsible discussions of Joseph Campbell in our modern age would bring up many of the points that you touched on.
I totally agree. In reading Campbell I find a celebration of the diversity of cultures and the shared ideas across those cultures. It’s no wonder that Lucas was also inspired to mix all of his influences together in making Star Wars.