[004] Reverse-engineering the Milwaukee M18 Redlink Protocol

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  • Опубликовано: 7 сен 2023
  • Support my work on Patreon to see videos early and see extra information:
    / toolscientist
    Milwaukee M18 batteries and chargers communicate via digital signals, which Milwaukee calls Redlink Intelligence. A USB logic analyser, some leads, and a few resistors is all you need to listen in on these signals. I tested 2 chargers and several batteries and listed my best interpretation of what the messages mean and what each byte in the messages means.
    There's still a few parts that I'm unsure of or have no idea of their meaning. It'd be great if others can follow my guide and record the signals of their batteries and chargers to see if they can uncover any new information.
    This video owes a lot to Buy It Fix It who solved a lot of the basics of the protocol and definitely saved me a lot of time. They don't have a video on this topic, but they've got lots of repair videos on their channel, so go check them out: / buyitfixit
    REFERENCES:
    Buy It Fix It (Reddit post): / m18_fuel_battery_protocol
    Quagmire Repair: quagmirerepair.com/milwaukee-...
    CREDITS:
    Matrix Raining Code: • The Matrix Raining Gre...
    Explosion: • Explosion croma key gr...
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Комментарии • 964

  • @flipschwipp6572
    @flipschwipp6572 10 месяцев назад +1834

    The World Needs more of this sort of reverse engineering

    • @benargee
      @benargee 10 месяцев назад +96

      Yes but what it needs even more is right to repair so that this level of documentation is provided by the manufacturer as per regulations

    • @BuyitFixit
      @BuyitFixit 10 месяцев назад +27

      @@benargee Unfortunately manufacturers are less willing to help. I had the same with FLIR when trying to repair one of their thermal cameras, and the same with another company when I repaired a Solar inverter and needed a service password. Good job I've been reverse engineering stuff for years. So I looked at their software and wrote my own password generator for the inverters. The M18 comms stuff I did a few months back, it was nice to get a mention :)

    • @ryanohoro3764
      @ryanohoro3764 10 месяцев назад +4

      With like 80% less gross sexist humor.

    • @Kardall
      @Kardall 10 месяцев назад

      @@BuyitFixitHence why the right to repair movement is trying to get through the red tape with the governmental agencies. Trying to make them create an easy to self-repair instead of replace the products or make them take it to the dealer/manufacturer to do anything simple or do a 'programming thing' to reset the part so it works again. Like John Deere does with their tractors when you replace something. You have to bring the entire machine to the dealership so they can use their software tool to tell the new part that it is okay to work with that tractor.

    • @Sharpless2
      @Sharpless2 10 месяцев назад +28

      @@ryanohoro3764 nope, not at all. We need exactly that. If you dont like it, dont listen.

  • @TedLedbetter
    @TedLedbetter 10 месяцев назад +1263

    RUclips recommended me your video. Loved the way you made it funny and simplified it in a way anyone could understand. 👍

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +90

      Thanks, mate. It's definitely hard to make an interesting video about digital signals. Ultimately you end up just looking at 1s and 0s.

    • @h8GW
      @h8GW 10 месяцев назад +10

      Well, probably anybody who's an electrical engineer, not just _anybody._
      But yes, I found his metaphors quite humorous -at least the ones i understood.-

    • @Palmit_
      @Palmit_ 10 месяцев назад +8

      all the various pointy things was interesting as well :) @@toolscientist

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +18

      @@Palmit_ thank you! I spent way too long getting that blue-screen effect to work and you're the only one that's noticed.

    • @PaulFisher
      @PaulFisher 10 месяцев назад +2

      I also noticed!

  • @db0nn3r
    @db0nn3r 10 месяцев назад +555

    This is phenomenal. I also have no doubts you are the guy to solve the historical “how to run Milwaukee battery tools on AC power” question.

    • @renegaed
      @renegaed 10 месяцев назад +78

      Not too complicated I got it working in the shop a year ago. If I roughly try to remember you have to send 5V to either J1 or J2 pin. Can't remember which. Even 1V was enough if I remember correctly. Then the tool will accept current via the Power and Ground pins. I powered a whole bunch of Milwaukee tools like this using a lab bench power supply. Just make sure your wires are beefy because you're dealing with a lot of current. Having said that, I am looking forward to the next video in case there's some current throttling happening without explicitly communicating through uart.

    • @BuyitFixit
      @BuyitFixit 10 месяцев назад +24

      @@renegaed From my testing and reverse engineering of this a few months back the only communications I saw were between the charger and the battery. I didn't see any data between any of the tools I tested and the battery. The tools seem to measure the pack voltage via a potential divider, and I think they possibly measure the pack temperature (which I think could be your 1v you mentioned)

    • @renegaed
      @renegaed 10 месяцев назад +3

      @@BuyitFixit very interesting, thanks for sharing

    • @KlodFather
      @KlodFather 9 месяцев назад +7

      I just converted a milwaukee 18v vacuum to run on my Bosch batteries. I put in the Bosch mount for their 18v battery and can now vacuum using my plethora of bosch stuff. Worked good for me. Got a good deal on the vacuum but did not want to invest in their batteries or chargers. Next step is to put 18v mount on my Pyle Speaker/mp3 player (big pyle 10in woofer compression driver pro speaker) so that I can play it out where there is not power. Going to put two mounts on it for capacity and run two 8ah or 12ah bosch batteries on it. Do you think anyone would be interested how its done using Bosch Milwaukee or Makita batteries? There are some points to keep in mind.

    • @brodycloud3405
      @brodycloud3405 9 месяцев назад

      ​@@KlodFatherYep I run the framing nailer, inverter, and backpack vac off an adapted Makita battery without issue.

  • @mvadu
    @mvadu 10 месяцев назад +185

    RUclips may finally be learning what kind of videos I really would love to watch.. This is golden, specially the verbose messages, imagine seeing that in a datasheet 🤔😅

    • @cybyrd9615
      @cybyrd9615 10 месяцев назад +6

      Oh RUclips is way better than that it literally updates me on new DIY 3D printer designs with like only 800 views and me not having to search anything in a topic I am super interested in since it was on a front page

    • @von...
      @von... 10 месяцев назад +5

      @@cybyrd9615 yt has really had its finger on the pulse recently ngl (at least for our algos)

  • @andersjjensen
    @andersjjensen 9 месяцев назад +21

    As someone who has had to reverse engineer the BIOS flash procedure on a laptop I highly appreciate your work. I HATE proprietary crap, vendor lock-in and vendor lock-out.

  • @Gastell0
    @Gastell0 10 месяцев назад +84

    Great work on preserving the Milwaukee battery culture!

  • @SGresponse
    @SGresponse 9 месяцев назад +1

    I want MORE digital signal analysis. The mating ritual was riveting!

  • @neverendingstudent
    @neverendingstudent 10 месяцев назад +63

    As someone who's worked on his M18 batteries (manually rebalancing by charging / testing individual cell rails), this is fascinating and much appreciated. I have a USB logic analyzer in one of the tool drawers of my bench that I haven't put to use yet, and you're making me want to break it out. Great stuff, thank you.

  • @JacobErtel
    @JacobErtel 10 месяцев назад +30

    Great video! I know the MX Fuel line costs a lot more and isn't as popular, but if anyone wanted to poke around at the comms, I toured Milwaukee's headquarters right after the product released and they said it used RS-485 communication

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +12

      Interesting! I'd have to be a lot more careful when poking around an 80V MAX pack, though!

  • @dong6839
    @dong6839 9 месяцев назад +125

    As someone who's not an electronics expert, this whole concept absolutely amazes me. Just the idea of how you can make 2 simple devices "talk" to each other and communicate information in a way in which they both reliably understand without needing a bunch of extra expensive components. I'm just now getting into Arduino and learning how to write code to control it, but getting devices to do this simply with a few pennies worth of extra components (and without requiring an Arduino or similar) just amazes me.

    • @GrandNecro
      @GrandNecro 9 месяцев назад

      if you're interested in these kind of subject. search up an "embedded system" course. most Arduino tutorial are basic and won't give you the low-level explanation you need.

    • @LordZarano
      @LordZarano 9 месяцев назад +6

      Ben Eater's videos are fantastic if you want to learn how digital electronics works in a from-first-principles kinda way

    • @JohnRunyon
      @JohnRunyon 9 месяцев назад +9

      Keep in mind that a lot of these devices use a microcontroller, so they're basically just an purpose-built Arduino... (The Quagmire Repair link documents it as having a TI microcontroller and battery monitor IC)
      The real sad thing is that they could've just put the logic like the battery monitor into the charger and done away with this whole thing...

    • @laynebernardo
      @laynebernardo 9 месяцев назад +2

      ​@@JohnRunyon It's to try to justify proprietary tool batteries.

    • @dsp4392
      @dsp4392 9 месяцев назад

      I mean he did use a laptop, which is a vastly more powerful computer than an Arduino.

  • @Dinkleberg96
    @Dinkleberg96 10 месяцев назад +38

    Pls do more reverse engineering videos like this. This is 10/10 content

    • @S0L4RE
      @S0L4RE 9 месяцев назад

      Same! Love this shit.

  • @RangieNZ
    @RangieNZ 10 месяцев назад +123

    As someone who has carried out similar work between ECU's in a car and a diagnostic machine, this video was amazing. :)

    • @lordjaashin
      @lordjaashin 10 месяцев назад +8

      now you sound like you could make very interesting videos. always curious about how ecu works in cars

    • @BigHeadClan
      @BigHeadClan 9 месяцев назад +1

      ⁠​⁠​⁠@@lordjaashinwell most cars at least have a factory service manual that helps you narrow down how it’s communication works from system to system.
      Although it doesn’t tell you what that data looks like, you’d need to intercept and start playing with values on the ECU and see what they do.
      It would be really cool to see it in this type of format though.

  • @pinoy1204
    @pinoy1204 10 месяцев назад +16

    I noticed your other videos didn't have as many views as this one so I'm glad the algorithm might've blessed you. Need more videos like this on RUclips as a a Milwaukee user so please keep doing what you're doing. Subscribed

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  9 месяцев назад +7

      Definitely got blessed. I had 101 subscribers before releasing this vid, and my other vids were only 1k, 2.3k, and 1.7k.

    • @dimm__
      @dimm__ 9 месяцев назад +2

      just dont get spooked or feel pressured to produce more content mate, keep a finger on yer pulse

    • @Eagle3302PL
      @Eagle3302PL 9 месяцев назад

      @@toolscientist I think your format is very good, snappy, to the point, dense with humour but the humour does not obscure the information. I also think the presentation of the video, visuals + your voiceover are excellent.

  • @djisydneyaustralia
    @djisydneyaustralia 10 месяцев назад +13

    The best ! Best explanation of logic analyser data in history !! Well done ! Very educationally entertaining

  • @skittleskills8650
    @skittleskills8650 10 месяцев назад +11

    explained like an expert talking to a room of children, funny throughout, i have no interest in milwauke stuff but i like low level comms like this, youve earned a sub and a regular viewer for your comedic explanations, keep smiling n keep making us laugh

  • @cedricpomerleau5586
    @cedricpomerleau5586 9 месяцев назад +36

    That's surprisingly different to DeWalt's way of doing thing. There's mostly no electronics in the battery, but there's more pins, so the charger can monitor and balance individual cells, monitor the temperature, etc. all by itself. The way to differentiate batteries (High output or not) is a simple resistor installed between an additional pin and the 0V pin.

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  8 месяцев назад +2

      Yeah, the Dewalt's are admirable for their simplicity.

    • @straightpipediesel
      @straightpipediesel 8 месяцев назад +1

      That's M12. Thermistor, balancing wires, done.

  • @LatvianVideo
    @LatvianVideo 10 месяцев назад +17

    I'd hope this video blows up, really good content and also well explained. 100% subscribing

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +2

      Thanks mate. Appreciate it.

  • @QualityDoggo
    @QualityDoggo 10 месяцев назад +56

    Awesome to see how this works!
    The crazy part is there are companies who make aftermarket/copy parts (especially in China) that have people with tons of reverse-engineering experience who often figure out this kind of stuff before most people have a chance to shop for one 😂
    Nice to see the secrets shared instead of found and kept!

    • @electricalmayhem
      @electricalmayhem 10 месяцев назад

      I always assumed they didn't reverse engineer it but had back door access to the genuine factories in china to quietly steal all the technical data.

    • @BuyitFixit
      @BuyitFixit 10 месяцев назад

      00:28 I shared them a few months back 😂😂

    • @weemackee
      @weemackee 9 месяцев назад +12

      My dad will die on the hill that 'china has horrible engineers'. As an engineer, I hopelessly try to explain to him that China has the best engineers at what they do. Want performance? German. Want reliability? Japanese. Want reverse engineering and/or cheapest manufacturing? Chinese.

    • @Hepad_
      @Hepad_ 9 месяцев назад +2

      @@weemackee performance ? Tell me you've never worked with German engineers without telling me you've never worked with German engineers.

    • @Eagle3302PL
      @Eagle3302PL 9 месяцев назад +2

      @@Hepad_ He means product output performance, not engineering process efficiency.

  • @PsRohrbaugh
    @PsRohrbaugh 9 месяцев назад +1

    I'm a dewalt household, but RUclips recommended this to me, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Great stuff!

  • @MrWaalkman
    @MrWaalkman 10 месяцев назад +1

    Poor Muriel. Forever shamed on the fridge.
    And nice work on the battery protocol. :)

  • @linorics
    @linorics 10 месяцев назад +18

    This is amazing! Hope you get enough support to do this for a Makita battery!

  • @momouppa
    @momouppa 10 месяцев назад +12

    Would be cool to see videos like this with other manufacturers

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +6

      Definitely. I'd love to compare them all, but it'll take some time. For every vid I get out, my todo list grows by another 10 items!

  • @brady5829
    @brady5829 10 месяцев назад +1

    RUclips algorithm correctly identifying and serving up quality content

  • @moafwaz5563
    @moafwaz5563 10 месяцев назад +2

    The algorithm gods blessed me with a genuinely interesting and unique channel.

  • @toolscientist
    @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +13

    Sweet Jeebus, where did all you tool nerds come from? There's probably less than 1,000 people who need to know this protocol, so I assume the rest of you are just here to gawk at Milwaukee's innards. I'm trying to reply to all your questions but I'm going to have to stop soon - so far you've all given me about 5 years and $100,000 worth of experiments to do!
    Just kidding. Thanks for all the support. Each of my videos has at least 100 hours of work behind it, so it's quite rewarding to go from getting 2k views/month to 4k views/hour. I was worried that my 100 subscribers wouldn't be interested in a video about digital signals and barely limp past 1,000 views, but you've proved me wrong. Thank you!

  • @OldePhart
    @OldePhart 10 месяцев назад +8

    Nicely done and presented with humor. Take on HP printer cartridges (and Brady industrial Label machines) next. You will be a hero :)

  • @lohikarhu734
    @lohikarhu734 10 месяцев назад +84

    Nicely done, and presented in a professional, and fun way...not to much "overhead", good stuff (from a guy with about 20 years FAE/AE experience with Tek, Agilent, Motorola, and R&S)

  • @shanesprojects213
    @shanesprojects213 9 месяцев назад +1

    This is really incredible. You never know how deep the rabbit hole of a specific technology goes.. until you watch a video like this!

  • @MrLuc420
    @MrLuc420 10 месяцев назад +4

    Randomly got this recommended. Great content, got yourself a subscriber. Looking forward to see your channel grow.

  • @vbkfivn
    @vbkfivn 10 месяцев назад +3

    RUclips randomly recomended this to me, and I'm glad it did. Loved this video and subscribed to the channel.

  • @pinch-of-salt
    @pinch-of-salt 9 месяцев назад +1

    This is phenomenal information and the delivery is spot on.

  • @SigiCZ
    @SigiCZ 10 месяцев назад +4

    "The charger gets frustrated and goes home." I cried 😂

  • @jimtekkit
    @jimtekkit 10 месяцев назад +4

    Cool video. I'm a computer guy but it makes me start holding my head when I see TX and RX signals for a battery charger. All it takes is a simple "are you within the warranty period" check and then it makes the battery do something sneaky like blow internal fuses in the microcontroller.

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +4

      I've often thought about that. It would be a very risky move. Big class action if you were caught, and alienating a lot of your loyal customers. Difficult to get caught if you hide it well enough, but only takes one disgruntled employee to expose you.

    • @user2C47
      @user2C47 9 месяцев назад

      There's no reason this can't be done internally, unless you want the "failure" to be contagious. I know EGO batteries already have an RTC in them so they can self discharge for storage.

  • @josejj
    @josejj 10 месяцев назад +3

    Alright now this is the type of content I’ve been looking for 👀 saving it to my favorites

  • @McCraezy
    @McCraezy 10 месяцев назад

    Love that this was suggested for me, I'll be checking out the rest of your stuff!

  • @joaomatheus7988
    @joaomatheus7988 10 месяцев назад +2

    Wow, RUclips just recommended the type of content I really used to like. + Your video is simple enough that almost anyone can understand, good job.

  • @almosthuman4457
    @almosthuman4457 10 месяцев назад +3

    This is quality content. Thanks for sharing this.

  • @FanaticalRK
    @FanaticalRK 10 месяцев назад +11

    Cool video.
    Thinking you might be able to revive the dead battery if your able to dump the eeprom on a good one and flash to bad one - there might be a lockout condition if the controller detects missing balance rail

  • @cowgod77
    @cowgod77 10 месяцев назад +2

    Great methodology, and entertaining video. Glad you happened to come up in my suggestions!

  • @AaronBonBarron
    @AaronBonBarron 9 месяцев назад +2

    Instant sub for an Aussie nerd channel. I love how manufacturers add a microcontroller and basic UART communication to something and then decide it's so revolutionary that it needs some kind of fancy name.

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  8 месяцев назад +2

      I do like Milwaukee, but their marketing is Apple levels of calling everything revolutionary and magic.

  • @jagmarc
    @jagmarc 9 месяцев назад +3

    Well researched and presented. It's refreshing to see reverse engineering on YT done so scientifically and with real thought put into it.
    Unlike certain "other" high profile 'tear-down & schematic' channels that have a million subscribers wildly guessing how they think something works.

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  9 месяцев назад +6

      Oh don't worry, I do a LOT of wild guessing. I just edit out the 5 hours of me being completely wrong. Then the 2min that's left makes it look like I know what I'm talking about 😉

    • @jagmarc
      @jagmarc 9 месяцев назад +3

      @@toolscientist Much like actual science is

  • @ThriftyToolShed
    @ThriftyToolShed 10 месяцев назад +11

    Excellent work. I have attempted years ago to learn more about the EGO 56V BMS Communications. I can't seem to get motivated enough to go much further or buy better equipment just to look deeper. I like the look into the M18 communication. It will be very interesting to see how it communicates with the tools and how the aftermarket packs differ or if even at all. Just like the EGO aftermarket packs, I assume they have to be very close to the same if they play well with the brand's real tools and chargers. Thanks for all the effort you put into this to share it. It was a huge effort I can tell.

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +7

      I didn't put it in this video to avoid going off on tangents, but there's an older and simpler protocol that the charger can fall back to. Older batteries (mine are Dec 2013) communicate with a very basic system of pulses. From memory it's something like 2 pulses from the charger to initiate charging, and then battery holds high until it wants to stop. Charging current is much lower, I think around 1A. So some of the aftermarkets are probably using this simpler communication. You'd be able to tell which ones use the full protocol and which ones the older protocol by their charging speed.
      Yeah, it was a big one! My files say I started in late July. Took me a week to get reliable data capture as it was my first time using a logic analyser and I initially thought I had a dud. Fortunately Buy It Fix It's work let me know that it was possible and had enough info for me to figure out the necessary resistor setup

    • @ThriftyToolShed
      @ThriftyToolShed 10 месяцев назад +2

      @@toolscientist No doubt it took a lot of time. When you have months of footage to go back through for me it gets very tough keeping up with what I did record and what I meant to record later...
      Especially if I let one or 2 projects sit waiting on parts or waiting on cells in a storage test to see how they fare after a month or so.

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +4

      100%. I think someone needs to hire us some research assistants 😄

    • @ThriftyToolShed
      @ThriftyToolShed 10 месяцев назад +2

      @@toolscientist for real! 🤣

  • @djamonstaal1123
    @djamonstaal1123 10 месяцев назад +2

    Good job! Awesome to document this kind of stuff!

  • @TylrVncnt
    @TylrVncnt 9 месяцев назад

    Realllly love this content, keep it going! Well done mate

  • @petercoutu4726
    @petercoutu4726 10 месяцев назад +3

    This is great information it would definitely help in my idea of creating a powerwall based off of the M18 batteries.

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +3

      Yeah, the interesting thing was that the battery doesn't react to not receiving it's desired current. So you could have a battery getting charged and pull current from it at the same time. The downside is you'll lose low-voltage cutout, but you can detect it as the battery reduces its current request to 300mA (0x012C) whenever any cell goes below 3V.

    • @petercoutu4726
      @petercoutu4726 10 месяцев назад

      @toolscientist thank you for the further insight. I might not have your skills, yet, so I hope to learn more from your content.

  • @geodangleon
    @geodangleon 10 месяцев назад +20

    This was super interesting. I'd like to replicate this with my AEG battery to see how it communicates with its charger. I have tried to charge it with a lab power supply and it went into protection mode so I think there must be a similar handshake happening.
    It would be cool if theyre sharing the same tech being both TTI companies

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +5

      Definitely give it a crack, I'd be interested to hear what it's like. Apparently Milwaukee operates fairly independently, so my guess is that they more likely copied Ryobi 40V. You can find a thread on diyelectriccar where someone posts some data from Ryobi 40V

    • @TheJttv
      @TheJttv 10 месяцев назад +3

      ​​@@toolscientist this is kinda correct. Milwaukee works with Empire level and Imperial Blade, Stilleto Hammers, Kango Blades. With most of this design work is done in Milwaukee, WI.
      But is largely independent of Rigid, Aeg, Ryobi, Hart or any of the vacuum brands. Most of this is done in North/South carolina

  • @junianius
    @junianius 9 месяцев назад

    The different “pointers” every few frames has got to be the funniest thing I’ve seen done in a long time.

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  8 месяцев назад

      Don't know if I can do it again. That green-screening took too long and my lighting isn't great so I got lots of artifacts.

  • @isfernandez914
    @isfernandez914 9 месяцев назад

    Why did I decide to watch this? I have no idea. Is this the funniest Milwaukee battery-related video I have ever watched? Most definitely. 😌

  • @lorelei275
    @lorelei275 10 месяцев назад +3

    Very interesting. The RUclips algorithm is a fickle mistress, isn’t it? Glad it sent me your way. Subbed and good luck with your channel!

  • @mikebroom1866
    @mikebroom1866 10 месяцев назад +15

    SUPER interested on how they communicate with the tools. I would love to make my dewalt 60v blower have a DIY backpack mounted battery.

    • @cculpepper1
      @cculpepper1 10 месяцев назад +6

      The DeWalt batteries are essentially dumb batteries which expose all the individual series cell voltages, and a resistor to indicate capacity.
      The flex volt batteries, iirc from an Internet post, are the same unless an electrical jumper is made, and a special physical connector switched it to 60v mode.

    • @andythekitsune
      @andythekitsune 10 месяцев назад

      ​@@cculpepper1Right, one reason is to help with air transport. In 60V mode the battery is too big to air transport IIRC.

  • @timc3600
    @timc3600 10 месяцев назад +2

    Great content, thanks. I hadn't even considered that a battery power tool would do anything other than +, - and over temperature.
    You just gained a subscriber.

  • @brendonv101
    @brendonv101 9 месяцев назад

    First video I've watched and I'm loving the narration. :)

  • @ToolsAndStuffOFFICIAL
    @ToolsAndStuffOFFICIAL 10 месяцев назад +4

    Great video dude. Keep it up. P.S. I'm stealing all of this 😂

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +2

      Intellectual theft is the foundation of civilisation, so go nuts! Tools & Stuff turning into an electronics channel would be an unexpected twist, although I really liked your explanation of tabless cells.

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад

      Out of curiosity, where did you find this vid? YT seems to be pushing it to SE Asian repair channels and DIY Solar channels, but I guess that's what YT does when you're new.

    • @ToolsAndStuffOFFICIAL
      @ToolsAndStuffOFFICIAL 10 месяцев назад +2

      @@toolscientist Don't worry, I haven't the patience to do electronics reviews. I got a push notification on my phone, but that is likely because I was already subscribed 😉

    • @BuyitFixit
      @BuyitFixit 10 месяцев назад

      Hope you give me a mention too then 😂😂😂😂

  • @FowlerAskew
    @FowlerAskew 10 месяцев назад +4

    Those basic logic analysers are an indispensable tool, the number of capabilities you get for the money is incredible

    • @DasIllu
      @DasIllu 10 месяцев назад

      Indeed, though these cheap ones do not have the slightest bit of input protection. Probing with a scope prior to using them is advised.

  • @inkrpen
    @inkrpen 10 месяцев назад

    Love this kind of stuff, never stop

  • @vnagaravi
    @vnagaravi 10 месяцев назад +1

    Im waiting for this type of content for so long

  • @Mylifeintechnicolor
    @Mylifeintechnicolor 10 месяцев назад +4

    That battery that you dreamed toast, try putting 18v from another battery to the + and - pins. Had that same error come up on batteries people had thrown out. The batteries that I did this with came alive and was accepted by the charger again. I think something on the BMS sets a byte when the voltage goes under a threshold and the 05 get sent to the charger so it don't try to charge a broken cell. The batteries I have done this with is is all original Milwaukee and the types was the 2x M18 2.0A, 1x M18 4.0A and 2x M18 8.0A.

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +3

      Maybe. I would have thought the charger would give flashing green and red lights for that, though. I think I damaged something when desoldering. Possibly the thermistor and 05 means undertemp. If I get the time I might try and investigate. I have 17 other batteries, and this one was pretty old and beat up, so it's a low priority.

    • @bnasty267
      @bnasty267 10 месяцев назад +2

      Much safer to disassemble the pack and use a standard 18650 charger to charge one bank of cells at a time. You can use a multimeter to find the bank that reads low voltage (

    • @Mylifeintechnicolor
      @Mylifeintechnicolor 10 месяцев назад

      @@bnasty267 I did exactly that and when it read approx 18v total on the battery outs (+/-) I tried putting it into a tool first, where it worked then put the battery into the charger (original Milwaukee charger non-rapid charge) and it gave the broken battery code with the read and green blinking. I googled the problem and saw a video where the guy said that he had "kickstartet" his faulty batteries by putting 18v onto the output terminals. I did that with another battery just for 10 sec or something like that and measured the voltage on the cells and on the board. Nothing changed but when I plugged it into the charger it didn't give the faulty lights and it began to charge. That was my first revival and that battery still goes strong after 3 years. But yes be careful, a damaged cells is nothing to take lightly.

  • @The_M1k3y
    @The_M1k3y 10 месяцев назад +4

    That's some awesome work. I recently started analyzing the protocol of the Metabo CAS batteries. It's a bit more annoying since they use a bidirectional single wire UART, but I got to sniff a few charging cycles of different (18V only) batteries. I identified 12 different messages, but am currently at a loss of how to continue.
    The data does not change during the whole charging progress. There are multiple values that get queried, but except for some that seem to correlate to the design-capacity and a kind of repeated status query (that has a different value across all tested batteries but never changes for a battery) there seems to be absolutely nothing meaningful in there.

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +3

      Are you doing a full charge sequence? When the M18 batteries are full, it just does queries to check that its ok. When they're in CC mode, all messages are just asking for 6A. To see changing data you need to be in CV mode.
      I think Makita does current request via an analog pin, so maybe Metabo is doing similar. Check for another pin where the voltage slowly changes during CV phase. If this is the case, then data will simply be "R U OK", followed by "Yes, I'm ok". You can try heating the battery up to induce change, but this could be damaging. If you can find the thermistor, you might be able to short it with a resistor to trick it into overheat detection. I used a 4.7k resistor for my tests, but you might need different.

    • @The_M1k3y
      @The_M1k3y 10 месяцев назад

      @@toolscientist @toolscientist I recorded the whole process from a partially charged battery until it was full. After the initial query of some data values it's just an infinite repeating of the same two queries (one of which seems to be a ping with no data) with no changes in answers every second.
      The battery has 5 contacts: GND, V+, NTC+, NTC- and Data. It seems like the charger handles all of the work as if the battery has no brain at all. The only meabingful looking data gets read once at the start and has some fields that could indicate the capabilities of the pack.
      I'll need to run another test with a completely empty pack and maybe need to find some with other voltages.
      Hm. Maybe I should try if the charger still works after blocking the data connection.

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  9 месяцев назад

      @@The_M1k3y only just saw this as it was marked as spam - maybe don't do the double @. Yeah, sounds weird. If you've got a clamp meter (or multimeter with high enough amp rating) then measure the charging current and voltage. Film it and try and identify the CC/CV/full phases in your vid and data. Maybe there's some sort of double ping for CV and full? There's another commenter in here that had worked on Metabo and said "...uses half-duplex UART at 2400 and it was enough to hardcode response to make it work." Maybe it's a dumb handshake with no info and the CC/CV stuff is handled by analogue pins? You should be able to find that comment and you could ask them.

  • @scoddri7392
    @scoddri7392 9 месяцев назад

    I got recommended you and you now have a new subscriber ♥️ scratches my curiosity itch thank you

  • @stevekgoodwin
    @stevekgoodwin 10 месяцев назад +2

    Reverse engineering protocols is fun! Once upon a time I reverse engineered the image feed off one of the AUSSAT satellites... so we could put it on to microfiche. The 1990s was a weird time.

  • @Kevin.L_
    @Kevin.L_ 10 месяцев назад +3

    I have a pretty good understanding of battery charging, but this communication stuff is beyond me. I did pick up that the charger has a constant voltage section at the end of the charge profile. That's good to know and I had had missed that in past M18 videos. Any idea if that 600mA termination the same in the standard, rapid and super chargers?
    Well put together video. Thanks!

    • @saiiiiiii1
      @saiiiiiii1 10 месяцев назад +3

      CC-CV is the standard Lithium Ion charging protocol. Constant current until the target voltage is reached then constant voltage until whatever termination current is set.

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +2

      I don't have standard charger. Samsung datasheet says 10% termination current, and rapid charger follows that. So standard charger is most likely 300mA

    • @Kevin.L_
      @Kevin.L_ 10 месяцев назад

      @@toolscientist My understanding, the 3 chargers are 3A, 6A, and 12A respectfully. Likely following the same profiles.

  • @mrb3888
    @mrb3888 10 месяцев назад +3

    BRO YES. This is EXACTLY what I’ve wanted to see for ages now. I’ve always wanted to get a glimpse at the communication between Milwaukee batteries and the charger since the milwaukees batteries have the BMS on board unlike dewalt etc. with that being said, because what you’re doing is above my skill level, is there anyway that you could see, to trick an m18 charger to give me the raw charging output? I’ve got some projects where I’m building 18v packs with a common BMS that chargers simply through the output. Would love to trick my m18 charger to simply run a + and - wire out kind of like a wall wart. Only reason I want to do this is to take advantage of the high current output of these chargers. 3A charges quick. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
    ALSO, a project I’ve wanted to make was creating my own “forge” battery from an old pack, curious about the behavior of the board completely disconnected from cells then reintroduced to a fresh “pack” and if this would have any cause/effect on the microcontroller. Also just watched your video on the over discharging 18650 packs. It seems if I wanted to make a lipo pack for safety it looks like the high output boards would be ideal given the 2.5v cutout. Also using the OEM board itself would be nice I’m assuming to retain the better protection functions rather than an aftermarket board.

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +2

      Maybe. I have found an older and simpler protocol that just uses high/low voltages. However, this only gives a low charging current - I think 1A. To get the full 6A, you'll need to make a microcontroller and program it to mimic this message sequence. It still may not work, as the charger has some extra error detection in it. For example, when I used thin leads for the main current path, the charger seemed to notice the extra resistance. It would ramp the current up to around 400mA, then stop, then ramp up again, and stop. It repeated this about 3-4 times before giving the red/green error. Communication was working fine, it just sensed the extra resistance.

    • @BuyitFixit
      @BuyitFixit 10 месяцев назад

      I wrote some Arduino code a few months back that let's you talk to the battery.

    • @mrb3888
      @mrb3888 9 месяцев назад

      @@toolscientist very interesting. Would love to see if I could get a full 3-6a out at some point. You’re the man. Loving the videos. Will be keeping up with all of them.

    • @mrb3888
      @mrb3888 9 месяцев назад

      @@BuyitFixit would it allow for full output current?

    • @BuyitFixit
      @BuyitFixit 9 месяцев назад +1

      @@mrb3888 The batteries I've looked at the cells are connected directly to the output terminals. The low voltage disconnect is handled in the tool. The circuit in the battery just handles the charging, not the output.

  • @SpencerRyllSmith
    @SpencerRyllSmith 10 месяцев назад

    Wow, you laid this out beautifully. Thanks for the great video.

  • @michaelince7998
    @michaelince7998 9 месяцев назад

    What a great video! Thanks man, can’t wait to see more from you

  • @MTKOZ
    @MTKOZ 9 месяцев назад

    This is the kind of stuff I like to see on youtube. Awesome work!

  • @luisvarca
    @luisvarca 10 месяцев назад +1

    RUclips suggested your video. Sub hands down. Your clear appreciation of tech mixed with stellar humor is unique and refreshing. Please keep doing this content. Seriously.

    • @doctorlefthandthread
      @doctorlefthandthread 10 месяцев назад +1

      Just subbed great video I do my part for the m18 anti extinction program by performing surgery on them

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +2

      Hey doc! I've seen a few of your vids, keep up the good work.

    • @doctorlefthandthread
      @doctorlefthandthread 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@toolscientist you too sir your channel is cool

  • @Fwacer
    @Fwacer 9 месяцев назад

    This was hilarious. Loved all your names for the handshakes 😂

  • @rozijntje
    @rozijntje 9 месяцев назад

    You demonstrated that electronics and their protocols are explainable to non-technical individuals, kudos for that!

  • @brucewilliams6292
    @brucewilliams6292 10 месяцев назад

    This was fun. Thanks for the hard work and the smiles. Subscribed.

  • @MrAdamo
    @MrAdamo 9 месяцев назад

    This is genuinely some of the best content in the history of humanity

  • @NagashiChidorii
    @NagashiChidorii 9 месяцев назад

    God, RUclips is great for stuff like this. What a world we live in nowadays where shared information helps society as a whole

  • @ethanchiasson
    @ethanchiasson 9 месяцев назад

    Just reading the title of this video i subscribed, need more people like you 🖤

  • @matthewspeltz2185
    @matthewspeltz2185 9 месяцев назад +1

    After doing some deep dives on TLV message exchanges for work, this was an excellent video to see. THERE ARE WORSE MESSAGE EXCHANGES!
    Completely unexpected recommendation by RUclips, looking forward to more content, thank you!

  • @MattTrevett
    @MattTrevett 9 месяцев назад

    Looking forward to the next one!

  • @maxid87
    @maxid87 9 месяцев назад +1

    Having the Bosch E-Bike batteries reverse engineered like this would be amazing...

  • @alloycrow917
    @alloycrow917 9 месяцев назад

    Nice video man, I am amazed by your knowledge and how electronics reverse engineering works, Very cool.

  • @peter360adventures9
    @peter360adventures9 9 месяцев назад

    Awesome. I watched to the end. Not boring at all.

  • @slghtmedia
    @slghtmedia 9 месяцев назад

    knowledge is power!!! love seeing this side of common items

  • @gianlucalocri
    @gianlucalocri 10 месяцев назад

    Amazing work! You gained a new subscriber (and I hope many more will come)

  • @Pyromaniac2450
    @Pyromaniac2450 10 месяцев назад +1

    Fantastic video, subscribed and looking forward to more like it

  • @joe_3006
    @joe_3006 9 месяцев назад

    great video look forward to more to come

  • @RAAFtiger
    @RAAFtiger 10 месяцев назад

    RUclips brought me here! Was happy to find someone else who sees a communication port on a tool or device and just has to hook up a logic analyser to find out what its sending, great video! Subscribed and looking forward to the video on the battery-tool communication.

    • @BuyitFixit
      @BuyitFixit 10 месяцев назад

      I don't think there is any tool communication that I could find with the tools I tested. I documented most of this on Reddit a few months back but then got distracted reverse engineering teddy ruxpin 😂😂

  • @PilotPlater
    @PilotPlater 9 месяцев назад

    really cool demonstration of revere engineering in addition to the very valueble data someone out there will need.

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  8 месяцев назад

      Haha, I'm sure someone will need it...right? I guess making a custom charger would be somewhat useful if you wanted to slow charge. Unfortunately it doesn't communicate cell voltages as that would be useful for making a charger that only charged to 4V or 4.1V to increase longevity.

  • @stevebunes9151
    @stevebunes9151 9 месяцев назад

    unbelievable effort and presentation. Bravo!

  • @mikehibbett3301
    @mikehibbett3301 8 месяцев назад

    Awesome analysis, thanks!

  • @4833504F
    @4833504F 10 месяцев назад

    Hat's off for the reversing work, but also for the hilarious innuendo 👍

  • @zfolwick
    @zfolwick 9 месяцев назад

    This is so cool! Thank you for doing this!

  • @paulhimle
    @paulhimle 10 месяцев назад

    Stumbled on this… Subscribed!

  • @JamieBainbridge
    @JamieBainbridge 9 месяцев назад

    Fantastic and very inspiring. You make me think I could get a logic analyser and hook it up to something useful.

  • @drewtaylor3559
    @drewtaylor3559 9 месяцев назад

    I think I just found some gold! love the info!

  • @TheVillainsProjects
    @TheVillainsProjects 10 месяцев назад +1

    Oooh, a new tool channel for me to follow!

  • @xcofcd
    @xcofcd 10 месяцев назад +1

    You've found a great niche. Very interesting channel...

  • @severnia
    @severnia 9 месяцев назад

    I have no idea how i ended up here, but you earned another sub!

  • @TheRealPlato
    @TheRealPlato 8 месяцев назад

    thx for research and good data vis. when i last priced one, standalone logic analyzers were five figures. awesome to see them in reach of hobbyists

  • @-fazik-3713
    @-fazik-3713 9 месяцев назад

    Great video! Informative and witty. I like it! :D

  • @7eis
    @7eis 9 месяцев назад

    Inappropriate handling of power tools and lithium batteries? I'm here for it!

  • @Eduardo_Espinoza
    @Eduardo_Espinoza 10 месяцев назад +1

    I always seen codes referenced similar to these in other videos, happy after many years to finally have a better understanding of these almost hieroglyphic symbols with snap chat references lol!
    Subbed:).

    • @toolscientist
      @toolscientist  10 месяцев назад +1

      Thanks, mate! Glad you enjoyed it.

    • @btw111
      @btw111 10 месяцев назад +2

      Same here! I've been looking for a more easy to understand breakdown of Milwalkee (and other tool brands) communication protocols for years. Very curious how feasible it would be to create "smart" tool adapters vs the current ones out there that only pass through the power pins.

  • @wokekkk
    @wokekkk 9 месяцев назад

    Beautiful work the world needs this kind of people

  • @tnwagn
    @tnwagn 10 месяцев назад

    Incredible video, well done

  • @Alan_Hans__
    @Alan_Hans__ 10 месяцев назад

    Love the mating rituals of electronics. I'll probably never touch a Milwaukee battery in my life but it was interesting watching your process.