This interviewer is brilliant. He lets experts speak and asks questions that are pertinent at helping the vast majority of the non expert audience clarify things. Ty.
In the mid-seventies, when I was a child, I heard "Penrose diagram". Later I saw it, loved it from the first hour - the entire universe on a sheet of paper! Never understood what else this man was doing... but I like to see that he is still around and well - as a Nobel Laureate!
@Übermensch That is an incredibly bad comment. You should always think about how people feel more than some silly mistake that is clearly either a typo or from someone that doesn’t know English as much as you. If you really have to then at least say “sir I don’t mean to be rude I just wanted to point out that you mispelt ‘congrats’ and have a nice day!”
Penrose' ENTIRE predicate is answering a universe that has an answer. He along with everyone else, knows what Einstein said: "Thermodynamics is the one universal law which will never be overthrown". Heat does not/cannot begin--#1 Heat is not/cannot be eternal--#2 THEY WON'T GIVE A $1 MILLION NOBEL PRIZE FOR SAYING: "IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO CIRCUMVENT THERMODYNAMICS, THEREFORE IMPOSSIBLE TO FORMULATE AN HYPOTHESIS" Entertaining maybe.....otherwise fakakta
He looks so much like Roger Federer, it's stunning! Looks like a 70+ year old Roger, who has come back to the future, to give us, so much Scientific wisdom, the face, the configuration, even the way he talks, the jokes, the humour, this is a duplication of Federer, taking an older form!
As soon as the interviewer said “did the Universe begin” all the power in my house went out along with my internet. At that moment I thought the Universe had just stopped.
To objectify such a coincidence is insanely arrogant. Who do you think you are thinking that the "Universe", much less the world, is revolving around you?!!
I'm a very big fan, and I'm so glad he won the Nobel. Incidentally, I'm reading one of his books right now, so I was able to say to my wife (who has never heard of Penrose before) "the guy who wrote this book just won the Nobel Prize!"
The sign of very deep understanding is the ability to explain very complex things in simpler terms. Roger is the best example in scientific community in this respect. What a wonderful and inspiring character, no matter if you agree with his views or not.
Trying to understand how something can begin with no before is like a cat trying to understand simple math. It never ceases to amaze me that we know what little we know.
It amazes me how we don't live By our knowledge. Universe is absurd, but we give our illogical actions, which don't follow our knowledge, all kinds of meaning. Humans are beyond absurdness of the Universe.
Except Penrose proposes that there was a before to every moment in time, just no scale of how much time in the parts that don't have any way of measuring time.
This is what makes Roger Penrose a MVP! He's one of the few scientists with artistic ability, which is the old way science was done. That is why art is necessary to be a good scientist.
Prof. Penrose is one-of-a-kind genius for how he tells his insights. Basically, he made irrelevant the question "What was before the Big Bang?" with his explanation of the essence of time being the matter itself, and these reciprocations - which turns implosions into expansions, and viceversa. He explained with utmost simplicity, what Eternity is.
I would be careful to use the word eternity because what is meant by word X in philosophy is not what is meant by word X in physics. In philosophy (although I may be mistaken as I am more focused on physics) that which is eternal does not undergo change. He would have to put forth a model where nothing is changing at all (no Big Bang or inflation or any events) for it to be eternal and I am sure that won’t happen without any commotion from the philosophy community.
@@Atonement- I’m so confused why you say that. If you’re religious you should be the last person to hate the Big Bang Theory. I’m not myself Christian bu the founder of the theory was called George Lemaitre who was a priest and brilliant physicist who was also the Big Brains behind the expansion of the universe idea (I think also CMBR but not sure about that one). Ironically it was atheists who appealed to the Steady State Theory and mocked his idea of a beginning. You also need to differentiate between a existential beginning and a temporal beginning if I am not mistaken.
@@captainhd9741 Take it back! Too much! Nose Bleeding. ( Comedic comment from an under schooled adult man feeling inadequate but likes listening and attempting to grasp.)
What I love about Sir Roger Penrose is the fact that he's trully brilliant mind that is able to actually make some new theories in the world of science that seem plausible, because he has an amazing ability to think for himself, not accepting everything community says as given truth and no other possibilites are there to discover.
Always wonderful to hear from the great Roger Penrose. I remember reading Roger back in the 70s when he was trying to explain his “Twistor” theory. Congratulations Roger on your Nobel.
@Novak Ingood on the contrary though, there are a lot of people whom it didn't distract. Unfortunately for yourself and the few others who were distracted by it, regardless of content, video/film is an art form and people will always try different things. I was quite capable of concentrating on the subject matter without great effort.
Except, of course, that that is logically incoherent (check into Hilbert's Hotel, and the concierge will explain why), and in any case it would require an explanation of the whole infinite stack of turtles.
@@AlexanderShamov Hilbert came up with the Hotel analogy to explain why actual infinities cannot exist in reality. And it's even worse if you try to say that an infinite series elapsed prior to now. By definition, infinite series do not elapse. That's what distinguishes them from finite ones. There is no final member of an infinite series.
@@Mentat1231 I'm a mathematician, I know what Hilbert's hotel is. :) And I don't think it says anything about the reality of actual infinities. It's just an illustration of some basic properties of infinite sets, nothing more. The hypothesis that the Universe is infinite in its spatial or temporal extent may be right or wrong, but either way, it's not _logically_ inconsistent. By the way, logic is all about formal systems, it doesn't deal directly with reality.
@@AlexanderShamov Well, David Hilbert was also a mathematician, and an expert in dealing with infinities, and yet concluded "The role that remains for the infinite to play is solely that of an idea...." and "...the infinite is nowhere to be found in reality, no matter what experiences, observations, and knowledge are appealed to." ("On the Infinite", David Hilbert). Hilbert was not just pointing out properties, but showing their absurdity when applied to a real-world situation. If absurdities are entailed by an infinitely extended world, then it is rationally inconsistent of us to accept it (even if no logical contradiction is entailed). I should have said "rationally incoherent" or something like that. And absurdities are indeed entailed by the mere existence of infinitely many things. Worse yet, the world is not "temporally extended" (that is a misuse of tense, and therefore a meaningless string of words). But it has existed for some particular number of minutes. If that number were infinite, then arriving at the present would be like arriving at the highest or final number in an infinite series. And that is indeed logically incoherent. An infinite series is distinct from a finite one just because _it has no highest or final member._ As to logic: I have much I could say, but let's just put it like this: If I contradict myself in replying to you, then you should not take my response seriously (and I doubt you would). So, likewise, if a proposed view of the world is rationally or even logically incoherent, neither of us should take it seriously.
Holy shit. He just put into words what I have always thought. Large equals small at the end of infinity. And you can never tell where you are on the timeline.
He is very likely right about saying - to measure time, we need mass. However, the mass itself is a thing very difficult to fathom let alone understanding time itself!
Sincere congratulations on the Nobel Prize. It is a great thing nowadays to listen to such greats of physics and mathematics who bring innovations in things founded by greats like Einstein
Yes and no, he illustrating how you can describe the universe where a biggining isn't necessary because time has no meaning an any sense we conventionally appreciate it. So in essence asking 'what came before the big band?' is as useful a question to ask as 'what's north of the north pole?'
That’s the way I understand it . The conditions of our phase will be the same at the end as they were in the beginning . No time , no space , no clocks , nothing to measure or measure with . Seems to me like entropy goes full circle . But what do I know .
@@eddiebrown192 Given the conditions at the end of the universe, the possibility of evaluating scale (and time goes away. So, the widely distributed end of one aeon is equivalent, according to Penrose, to the compact beginning of the next aeon (the "big bang"). It is a fascinating idea from a layman's perspective.
Congratulations Mr. penrose for winning the Nobel prize, I envy you. Salute to you for ur work on Physics and promoting our understanding of the Universe .
I have no idea what he (or Einstein) were talking about, but I do understand him when he indicates you need equations to show the idea, which in turn means I will never understand what he is talking about.
Yep. And you can see the interviewer pushing that point at 7:32 "..and (laughs) just walk me through that one more time...." meaning 'but you are not making sense there'. The BB theory posited a dense, hot point where all matter in the umiverse sfarted. So hot and dense that particles were at the subatomic level. Penrose decsribed the faaaar future where pretty much every particle has equalled out as photons, in a vastly diffuse and cold "mist". That isn't a 'hot dense place, so hot and dense and singular that you have a soup of subatomic particles'. Being able to imagine 'ah but.....from far enough away it might look like a single spot/place' isn't the same as ".....so it would actually BE another hot dense spot, so hot and dense that it explodes".
Thank you Mr Penrose, I have been trying to explain this to people for years, the universe is cyclic. there is no beginning and will be no end, just a change of state.
The interviewer himself looks like Einstein! He asks super relevant and brilliant questions too!!! Guess, he's a scientist too! Great minds think alike!
That was fascinating - learning how mass and time could be equivalent. I still do not understand how, since I do not know the concepts and equations behind it, but it is fascinating nonetheless.
It never really made sense to me that something came out of nothing, simply intuitively. To me it feels like it makes more sense that something always existed.
Ultimately though any theory that suggests there is no beginning will be problematic for science because that would want to answer the question of WHY ?
I mean, space isn't even really empty. Could be that the energy is always there, and just by the consequences of our laws of physics, it takes many different forms.
@@captainhd9741 how is the soul measured ? how is it Quantified ? what is the soul? How are we to prove it exists? How are we to agree what Proof of the soul is?
thank you Sir Roger for your dedication in developing your absolutely brilliant mind .......I struggle to understand most of this, but I can appricate you trying to educate the rest of us.........
Carl Segan said something interesting. He said we see the future as open ended - infinite. No end. So why can't with see that at the other end. No 'beginning' is infinite.
@@Aguijon1982 Lol, no it isn't. 'endless' is just handwaving, whether someone says that a diety or the physical universe "......just is, and just is eternal".
Hi there! I hope you are doing well :) If don't, I hope you get the things right 😊 And congratulations Sir Penrose 👏👏 People like you always inspire! ✌
@Lisa Jordan but I think sir hawking made a huge contribution in solving black hole mysteries like Hawking radiation and etc(I love it when I am reading his book😘😘
So is he basically saying that once our current universe has aged to the point at which there are only photons left, dimensions become meaningless and it's therefore equivalent to a single point of infinite density just like at the start of the big bang?
Not just dimensions but time. The space-time manifold only has meaning in the presence of mass-rest-mass to be precise. In the final heat-death of the universe, it has lost all means of spatial and temporal self-mensuration. The photons have relative wavelengths but only relative to each other. It is no longer big nor small, and clocks cease to tick; clocks cease to exist. It's like the pin-ball machine resets to zero and you start from scratch.
@@-danR If the the universe in its final seconds is very cold, how come the big bang that follows is very hot? I am still not really understanding the transition from a photon-only heat-death universe in which dimensions and time cease to exist to the subsequent extremely hot big bang that follows.
Finally someone that understands the universe is infinite, it has no beginning and no end, just like energy, it can't be created nor destroyed. Time by the way, is a localized illusion.
It’s amazing we are here.... Just as a scale.... if you pulled a measuring tape across our known universe... and that number equals all the gravity in the universe.....then you marked the center ( 50% on the left, 50% on the right).... if that mark was moved 1 inch.... left or right.... Our universe wouldn’t be here... that it would of collapse in on its self...... Beating the Odds... I’d rather be lucky than good...!!!!!
Many many congratulations to Roger Penrose Sir to receive Noble prize this year. I know from U-tube video interview about his efforts to work on consciousness. I feel, he is a saint keen to know oneself.
I thought maybe he was trying to keep the girl in the skirt in the shot, but then she’s clearly being directed out of frame (hilarious, by the way) and the camera keeps right on bobbing and weaving like a slow motion prize fight.
This is a two-camera shoot. Could you imagine poor Penrose trying to keep on-point with these two dummies slowly floating around distractingly training cameras on them. I had to stop watching and just listened.
Well then. That about sums that up. We're on a bungee cord. Was, is and evermore shall be, just changing states. In fact, I just changed states, from Georgia to North Carolina. Carolina was always on my mind. I need to go to bed, it's way too late for this!!
I am amazed how the most brilliant physicists and mathematicians devote their mind to studying cosmetology- for example, the infinite hair weave and fractals observed in the nail bed and periungual.
Sorry, but simply I did not understand what Roger was saying. I do understand point about size scale but not about coldness of universe in future and hotness of big bang beyond it again.
@@apuravmahajan283 I've found this: General relativistic statistical mechanics Carlo Rovelli Physical Review D 87 (8), 084055, 2013 "Understanding thermodynamics and statistical mechanics in the fully general relativistic context is an open problem. I give tentative definitions of equilibrium state, mean values, mean geometry, entropy and temperature [...]" If Carlo Rovelli cannot give a definitive answer, none of us can.
The problem with all these discussions is that you’re trying to understsnd the universe you’re inherently part of as an outside spectator. Meaning we’re all in a stage of mental illness, trying to navigate our way back home. Little kids are basically the only ones that truly “understsnd” what this universe is about.
I am astonished, this is a scientific approach very similar to the tibetan Buddhism understanding of the cosmos. No beginning, no end, but a sequence of eons. Interesting to listen a modern physicist talking about something that is explained in such an ancient teachings. What an interesting coincidence.
This same idea also is evidenced in Richard Maurice Bucke's book, Cosmic Consciousness, in the mystical experiences of a couple of his respondents and implied in his own experience.
I don't know what his position is, but it isn't logically necessary for there to have been a first aeon. There could be an infinite causal chain. It may seem odd, but nothing precludes this.
Not the first: Bertrand Russell, 1950 Literature Herbert Hauptman, 1985 Chemistry John Nash, 1994 Economic Sciences Clive Granger, 2003 Economic Sciences
Food for Thought 👍👍 But, questions can never end... a) If You find the most/last fundamental particle... the very next question will be..."From where this last fundamental particle came?" b) If You find God... the very next question will be..."From where God came?" c) If You say this last fundamental particle/God existed always.... the next questions will be... "Who/Which rule decided that the God is to be good/powerful/one etc. (Why not many Gods/less powerful God/evil God)" "Which rule decided that the last fundamental particle will have these properties only, which it will possess...why not some different properties?" "How can an immaterial God make something material? What is the process behind this conversion?" What is the energy source of an immaterial thing by which it can sustain? etc. etc. Therefore in spirituality/Yoga they say that we should focus on achieving Supreme Happiness (Happiness/Bliss that never goes away). Even if we find everything in the universe, ultimately we will achieve satisfaction/happiness. So, they say don't give much importance to knowledge (because questions can never end)...but give importance to the path which leads you to a state of default/supreme happiness, which once achieved never ever goes away.. God is nothing but this state. Once we achieve this state, they say, we are no different from God...then, we become God.
I'm no astrophysicist, nor physicist chemist mathematician philosopher of any sort but when I first heard about the BB my response was why one beginning? Why not many? Because the idea of one beginning to me sounds too religious and I'm an agnostic. And if you look around you don't see one straight line but many cycles... But maybe I'm too dumb to conceive what qualify scientist talk about. When I first heard about black hole I wonder could they be the opposite of expansion, back to unity. And since there are as many black holes as galaxies, could those lead to other dimensions. And how do multiple dimensions interfere to one another? Also, where do we stand between the infinitely big and small!? I think I'm gonna bake a cake or watch an episode of Rick and Morty....
Entropy, thats why. More than one big bang is also religious. That infinite number of big bangs resemble the Hindu perspective but the Hindus have a time line, one big bang per 4,32 billion years followed by a creation of universes with all existence as we know it, then to another bb and another, however, Astrophysicists have measured the rate of entropy and say that mathematically 4.32 billion wont do the trick, you need 13 or 14 billion years just to get where we are today, and here we are. At 4.32 billion years there would be not enough time to get all the elements that it takes for life anywhere in the universe. The rate of entropy would be just too high.
@@fudgedogbannana 4.32 billion years is the length of a Kalpa ( half a day of Brahma ). After that we see the pralay ( the annihilation ) but not the entire universe, only of Earth and the solar system. It is after 100 Brahma years ( 311 trillion years) that a universe collapses into that from which it emerged. Currently the universe is 155 trillion years roughly acc to the Puranas
@@rubiks6 Ff you'd like some actual ideas of what happened before the big bang, I suggest these videos. And guess what? None of them involved invisible friends. ruclips.net/p/PLJ4zAUPI-qqqj2D8eSk7yoa4hnojoCR4m
This interviewer is brilliant. He lets experts speak and asks questions that are pertinent at helping the vast majority of the non expert audience clarify things. Ty.
He makes it understandable, but not comprehensible, to even even the layman.
That's because he wants to know the answer
He is a scientist of the first order
The interviewer might be brilliant, but the interviewee is totally insane.
Really yes .
In the mid-seventies, when I was a child, I heard "Penrose diagram". Later I saw it, loved it from the first hour - the entire universe on a sheet of paper! Never understood what else this man was doing... but I like to see that he is still around and well - as a Nobel Laureate!
Gongrats to sir Roger Penrose for his nobel prize win!
@Übermensch That is an incredibly bad comment. You should always think about how people feel more than some silly mistake that is clearly either a typo or from someone that doesn’t know English as much as you. If you really have to then at least say “sir I don’t mean to be rude I just wanted to point out that you mispelt ‘congrats’ and have a nice day!”
@Übermensch I’m confused... “don’t be offended for goats”?
One mus egcept spelin meestakes wiff no worry.
A short clip to celebrate Noble Prize winning of Roger Penrose:ruclips.net/video/mDuF64tHStY/видео.html
Penrose' ENTIRE predicate is answering a universe that has an answer.
He along with everyone else, knows what Einstein said:
"Thermodynamics is the one universal law which will never be overthrown".
Heat does not/cannot begin--#1
Heat is not/cannot be eternal--#2
THEY WON'T GIVE A $1 MILLION NOBEL PRIZE FOR SAYING:
"IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO CIRCUMVENT THERMODYNAMICS,
THEREFORE IMPOSSIBLE TO FORMULATE AN HYPOTHESIS"
Entertaining maybe.....otherwise fakakta
I could listen to Sir Roger all day long, he is an inspiration.
Yeah he has a teenagers enthusiasm. Make viewers enjoy his energy.
A short clip to celebrate Noble Prize winning of Roger Penrose:ruclips.net/video/mDuF64tHStY/видео.html
He looks so much like Roger Federer, it's stunning! Looks like a 70+ year old Roger, who has come back to the future, to give us, so much Scientific wisdom, the face, the configuration, even the way he talks, the jokes, the humour, this is a duplication of Federer, taking an older form!
My channel is also an inspiration- listen to my performances.
He doesn’t know shiet
As soon as the interviewer said “did the Universe begin” all the power in my house went out along with my internet.
At that moment I thought the Universe had just stopped.
The matrix have you
Amazing. Most certainly not random.
The universe did stop and this is now a virtual reality.
even this reply to your comment is just a dream youre having.
😳🤣✌
That’s called a power out dude...
To objectify such a coincidence is insanely arrogant. Who do you think you are thinking that the "Universe", much less the world, is revolving around you?!!
Penrose rocks, brilliant mind and brand new Nobel Prize, congrats!
I'm a very big fan, and I'm so glad he won the Nobel. Incidentally, I'm reading one of his books right now, so I was able to say to my wife (who has never heard of Penrose before) "the guy who wrote this book just won the Nobel Prize!"
A short clip to celebrate Noble Prize winning of Roger Penrose:ruclips.net/video/mDuF64tHStY/видео.html
Overrated.
@THE ACOUSTIC CAGE Nobel for Physics and for other scientific fields are reliable
The sign of very deep understanding is the ability to explain very complex things in simpler terms. Roger is the best example in scientific community in this respect. What a wonderful and inspiring character, no matter if you agree with his views or not.
Absolutely beautiful subject. I feel privileged to have been able to hear such a discussion. Thank you.
A short clip to celebrate Noble Prize winning of Roger Penrose:ruclips.net/video/mDuF64tHStY/видео.html
Trying to understand how something can begin with no before is like a cat trying to understand simple math. It never ceases to amaze me that we know what little we know.
Like the cat will never be able to understand that math, humans may never be able to understand the universe.
It amazes me how we don't live By our knowledge.
Universe is absurd, but we give our illogical actions, which don't follow our knowledge, all kinds of meaning.
Humans are beyond absurdness of the Universe.
Except Penrose proposes that there was a before to every moment in time, just no scale of how much time in the parts that don't have any way of measuring time.
We actually do not know even that little. These are just theories. No west we could know what happened millions of years ago
Would have been nice of a god creator to give us a little more to go on than Ten Commandments.
This is what makes Roger Penrose a MVP! He's one of the few scientists with artistic ability, which is the old way science was done. That is why art is necessary to be a good scientist.
Thank you to our host and to Sir Roger. Never tire of listening to Sir Roger even though much is beyond my ken.
Almost every time I hear Roger talk or read a chapter of his book I get an attack of pure excitement
Prof. Penrose is one-of-a-kind genius for how he tells his insights. Basically, he made irrelevant the question "What was before the Big Bang?" with his explanation of the essence of time being the matter itself, and these reciprocations - which turns implosions into expansions, and viceversa. He explained with utmost simplicity, what Eternity is.
I would be careful to use the word eternity because what is meant by word X in philosophy is not what is meant by word X in physics. In philosophy (although I may be mistaken as I am more focused on physics) that which is eternal does not undergo change. He would have to put forth a model where nothing is changing at all (no Big Bang or inflation or any events) for it to be eternal and I am sure that won’t happen without any commotion from the philosophy community.
Bullchit dog... the question prevails.... WHAT CAUSED THE ALLEGED BIG BANG *THEORY* to occur.... you're a devil
@@Atonement- I’m so confused why you say that. If you’re religious you should be the last person to hate the Big Bang Theory. I’m not myself Christian bu the founder of the theory was called George Lemaitre who was a priest and brilliant physicist who was also the Big Brains behind the expansion of the universe idea (I think also CMBR but not sure about that one).
Ironically it was atheists who appealed to the Steady State Theory and mocked his idea of a beginning. You also need to differentiate between a existential beginning and a temporal beginning if I am not mistaken.
@@captainhd9741 Take it back! Too much! Nose Bleeding. ( Comedic comment from an under schooled adult man feeling inadequate but likes listening and attempting to grasp.)
A short clip to celebrate Noble Prize winning of Roger Penrose:ruclips.net/video/mDuF64tHStY/видео.html
This video reminds me what a time to be alive, in so many ways
What I love about Sir Roger Penrose is the fact that he's trully brilliant mind that is able to actually make some new theories in the world of science that seem plausible, because he has an amazing ability to think for himself, not accepting everything community says as given truth and no other possibilites are there to discover.
Always wonderful to hear from the great Roger Penrose. I remember reading Roger back in the 70s when he was trying to explain his “Twistor” theory.
Congratulations Roger on your Nobel.
Someone loves their slide camera in these series.
I know this camera person ( very pc ) and was drunk as a skunk , had trouble standing up let alone film ..
Slowest motion sickness I’ve ever felt !
Hahah
Its making me dizzy
These interviews with Penrose are gems.
A short clip to celebrate Noble Prize winning of Roger Penrose:ruclips.net/video/mDuF64tHStY/видео.html
Congratulations Sir Roger Penrose for winning Nobel prize. Lots of love and well wishes from India
Just a friendly hint, please use static cameras. Constantly moving scene is annoying and distracting. But full points for the interviews and topics.
I actually prefer an interview with cameras panning. So I guess they should do a survey to see how many people like or dislike this.
Doesn't bother me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Stop moving ! It’s so distracting, the panning is ridiculous
Didn't notice nothing.
I enjoyd the vid.
@Novak Ingood on the contrary though, there are a lot of people whom it didn't distract. Unfortunately for yourself and the few others who were distracted by it, regardless of content, video/film is an art form and people will always try different things. I was quite capable of concentrating on the subject matter without great effort.
Thanks for raising our intellectual thresholds up a notch or two Sir. Congratulations on winning the Nobel prize.
My utmost congrats to you on winning the Nobel Prize!
A short clip to celebrate Noble Prize winning of Roger Penrose:ruclips.net/video/mDuF64tHStY/видео.html
Roger Penrose, “It’s turtles all the way down.”
Except, of course, that that is logically incoherent (check into Hilbert's Hotel, and the concierge will explain why), and in any case it would require an explanation of the whole infinite stack of turtles.
@@Mentat1231 What exactly is logically incoherent about it, and what does it have to do with Hilbert's hotel?
@@AlexanderShamov
Hilbert came up with the Hotel analogy to explain why actual infinities cannot exist in reality. And it's even worse if you try to say that an infinite series elapsed prior to now. By definition, infinite series do not elapse. That's what distinguishes them from finite ones. There is no final member of an infinite series.
@@Mentat1231 I'm a mathematician, I know what Hilbert's hotel is. :)
And I don't think it says anything about the reality of actual infinities. It's just an illustration of some basic properties of infinite sets, nothing more.
The hypothesis that the Universe is infinite in its spatial or temporal extent may be right or wrong, but either way, it's not _logically_ inconsistent.
By the way, logic is all about formal systems, it doesn't deal directly with reality.
@@AlexanderShamov
Well, David Hilbert was also a mathematician, and an expert in dealing with infinities, and yet concluded "The role that remains for the infinite to play is solely that of an idea...." and "...the infinite is nowhere to be found in reality, no matter what experiences, observations, and knowledge are appealed to." ("On the Infinite", David Hilbert).
Hilbert was not just pointing out properties, but showing their absurdity when applied to a real-world situation.
If absurdities are entailed by an infinitely extended world, then it is rationally inconsistent of us to accept it (even if no logical contradiction is entailed). I should have said "rationally incoherent" or something like that. And absurdities are indeed entailed by the mere existence of infinitely many things. Worse yet, the world is not "temporally extended" (that is a misuse of tense, and therefore a meaningless string of words). But it has existed for some particular number of minutes. If that number were infinite, then arriving at the present would be like arriving at the highest or final number in an infinite series. And that is indeed logically incoherent. An infinite series is distinct from a finite one just because _it has no highest or final member._
As to logic: I have much I could say, but let's just put it like this: If I contradict myself in replying to you, then you should not take my response seriously (and I doubt you would). So, likewise, if a proposed view of the world is rationally or even logically incoherent, neither of us should take it seriously.
I didn't even think I'll understand when I began to see that video! But I did. What a bright mind! What a brilliant explainer! Thank You!!!
It's amazing to watch profound brilliance hit a brick wall, albeit a wall which is light years beyond any wall that we will ever reach.
This brings to mind zooming in on a Mandelbrot set plot where each new level of scale reveals itself to be similar to one before and to one after.
A short clip to celebrate Noble Prize winning of Roger Penrose:ruclips.net/video/mDuF64tHStY/видео.html
Never born never died... Endless journey endless cycles 🕊️💖🕊️
That's beautiful thank you
Don't you find that somewhat Horrifying though?
@@iamra8826 I don't know if I'd choose it, but I'd like to have the option of not existing.
What an utterly empty idea.
Wishful thinking
Holy shit. He just put into words what I have always thought. Large equals small at the end of infinity. And you can never tell where you are on the timeline.
Lol. Are you a Marxist? Lol
This is my favourite theory of the universe so far and i will continue to share this theory with others when the conversation arises!
Roger Penrose is ;like a guru; I don't quite know what he is saying, but I feel my understanding has been raised.
What a fascinating idea. And what an open mind to have conceived this possibility!
He is very likely right about saying - to measure time, we need mass. However, the mass itself is a thing very difficult to fathom let alone understanding time itself!
yes but equation and mathematics has its place guiding the model.
I often overhear this stuff discussed in my local pub
Probably not in the same terms.
Our locals " how do you shake hands ".
It's fascinating to think how many phenomena seem to depend on each other to merely exist. Higgs, mass, time, entropy, gravity, space. Amazing.
A very well orchestrated musical.
Sincere congratulations on the Nobel Prize. It is a great thing nowadays to listen to such greats of physics and mathematics who bring innovations in things founded by greats like Einstein
Congratulations Prof. Sir Roger Penrose for 2020 Nobel Prize in Physics
One of greatest mathematician and mathematical physicist for ever 🙌🙌
So, basically he's saying the the universe is eternal with big bang like phases.
Yes and no, he illustrating how you can describe the universe where a biggining isn't necessary because time has no meaning an any sense we conventionally appreciate it.
So in essence asking 'what came before the big band?' is as useful a question to ask as 'what's north of the north pole?'
@@jedaaa you are just repeating that which I’ve read 1,000 times already, but really you don’t know what you’re talking about.
That’s the way I understand it . The conditions of our phase will be the same at the end as they were in the beginning . No time , no space , no clocks , nothing to measure or measure with . Seems to me like entropy goes full circle . But what do I know .
@@eddiebrown192 Given the conditions at the end of the universe, the possibility of evaluating scale (and time goes away. So, the widely distributed end of one aeon is equivalent, according to Penrose, to the compact beginning of the next aeon (the "big bang"). It is a fascinating idea from a layman's perspective.
If the universe is eternal, why do our bodies die?
Congratulations Mr. penrose for winning the Nobel prize, I envy you. Salute to you for ur work on Physics and promoting our understanding of the Universe .
Honestly this models my recursive thought pattern that seems to happen every time I consider the start/source/reality too well! I like it
"I don't know what is reality and why reality it is what it is". He is right in his belief that the universe is not here by chance.
Is the interviewer going for the Albert Einstein look?
I thought he was Einstein! :)
I don't think he has a clue of what Pentose is saying.
@@ufosrus he's also a theoretical physicist...
A short clip to celebrate Noble Prize winning of Roger Penrose:ruclips.net/video/mDuF64tHStY/видео.html
@@ufosrus Penrose
Congratulations sir roger penrose for the winning of nobel prize.
Yo god is he right?
@somedeveloperblokey Thanks mate , its actually 5000!
Woody Allen said “Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” ♾
Ah ok
🤣🤣
It feels like Woody has been making the same film for eternity, especially towards the end.
He also said, "eternal nothingness is okay so long as you're dressed for it."
@@nivagsmada2854 wow great joke
I could listen to Sir Roger Penrose all day. It would be amazing to sit down and have a couple beers and long chat with him.
What a great chap. I could listen to him all day.
He was such a cool guy in the 80s. Dark hair, huge mutton chops and all round groovy dude with a big brain.
Congratulations to Sir Roger Penrose! One of the Greatest Mathematical Physicists of All Times! 🎓🎓🎓🎓🎓
I want to age like this man . Sharp as a whip
Sir Roger is close to the heart of the matter. Nothingness is unstable, the aeons are a relaxation oscillator.
I have no idea what he (or Einstein) were talking about, but I do understand him when he indicates you need equations to show the idea, which in turn means I will never understand what he is talking about.
If you are wondering what is the answer to the title question: he said "no".
Universe never began, because it never existed. 😍 ❤️
I love this man. I hope he goes down as one of the greatest minds to have ever existed in this Æon
Superb interview, thanx!
Finally my favourite person won a nobel ❤ for someone 2020 was good
The real beginning is always ahead!
A short clip to celebrate Noble Prize winning of Roger Penrose:ruclips.net/video/mDuF64tHStY/видео.html
With Penrose's aeons argument, physics becomes indistinguishable from speculative metaphysics.
Science is a series of wild guesses backed up by math and built on by generations
Penrose seems legit. You, not so much... do you have any physics to back up your statement? Because he definitely does.
Yep.
And you can see the interviewer pushing that point at 7:32 "..and (laughs) just walk me through that one more time...." meaning 'but you are not making sense there'.
The BB theory posited a dense, hot point where all matter in the umiverse sfarted. So hot and dense that particles were at the subatomic level.
Penrose decsribed the faaaar future where pretty much every particle has equalled out as photons, in a vastly diffuse and cold "mist".
That isn't a 'hot dense place, so hot and dense and singular that you have a soup of subatomic particles'.
Being able to imagine 'ah but.....from far enough away it might look like a single spot/place' isn't the same as ".....so it would actually BE another hot dense spot, so hot and dense that it explodes".
Sir Roger is pretty smart and everything, but I once got a C- on a pre-algebra exam. Not to toot my own horn.
Nobody likes a show off
“Not to toot my own horn (which I do regularly).” ;)
I bet you didn’t even study.
You do not have to be good at maths to be good at physics and vice versa.
He is the best type of academic. Super smart, but able to contextualise his thinking into pretty simple terms.
Thank you Mr Penrose, I have been trying to explain this to people for years, the universe is cyclic. there is no beginning and will be no end, just a change of state.
The interviewer himself looks like Einstein! He asks super relevant and brilliant questions too!!! Guess, he's a scientist too! Great minds think alike!
That was fascinating - learning how mass and time could be equivalent. I still do not understand how, since I do not know the concepts and equations behind it, but it is fascinating nonetheless.
It never really made sense to me that something came out of nothing, simply intuitively.
To me it feels like it makes more sense that something always existed.
A short clip to celebrate Noble Prize winning of Roger Penrose:ruclips.net/video/mDuF64tHStY/видео.html
Ultimately though any theory that suggests there is no beginning will be problematic for science because that would want to answer the question of WHY ?
@@spac3junk117 You solved it! Why does it takes all these dudes in sweaters so long?
I mean, space isn't even really empty. Could be that the energy is always there, and just by the consequences of our laws of physics, it takes many different forms.
@@captainhd9741 how is the soul measured ? how is it Quantified ? what is the soul? How are we to prove it exists? How are we to agree what Proof of the soul is?
When there are only photons left the universe loses track of how big it is.
thank you Sir Roger for your dedication in developing your absolutely brilliant mind .......I struggle to understand most of this, but I can appricate you trying to educate the rest of us.........
It is amazing to see Sir Roger Penrose interviewed by Albert Einstein
It's a shame Hawking had to pass too soon. He would have shard the Nobel Prize with Roger.
I wrote Hawking - but he couldn't believe that He was the Almighty in disguise with volontairy amnaesia
I think Einstein would believe
Not at all too soon..... Penrose is living long
Well, rogger will join hawking in hell later! If he doesn’t receive his eternal life free gift from Jesus
@@am1089 We will all make it
There is some time lapsing
That s all
@@1234567sophia don’t understand you. Please explain if you will
time requires mass
energy neither created nor destroyed
Great talk, would be even better if the camera man was not drunk.
Sometimes trying to edit students out
This explanation fits well with evolution over time. Wonderful work Sir.
Wow congrats! Excellent, so we are all in on the odds with multiple universes. Fascinating.
Carl Segan said something interesting. He said we see the future as open ended - infinite. No end. So why can't with see that at the other end. No 'beginning' is infinite.
Some of us can. Its mainly believers in god who cannot stand having a eternal universe because that renders their god useless
@@Aguijon1982 Lol, no it isn't.
'endless' is just handwaving, whether someone says that a diety or the physical universe "......just is, and just is eternal".
@@telectronix1368
Which is nonsense. When was time created then if time always existed then?
@@Aguijon1982 Try reading that comment again, bud.
@@telectronix1368
Try reading the question again instead of avoiding it
Elizabeth Queen: oh, no, they found my secret!!
Reminds me of the short story The Last Question by Isaac Asimov
Hi there! I hope you are doing well :) If don't, I hope you get the things right 😊
And congratulations Sir Penrose 👏👏 People like you always inspire! ✌
Really nice to see Einstein and Penrose discussing the important questions
Yes. If he let his hair grow longer !
Fun fact: there was a bet between
Sir hawking and sir Penrose about Cygnus x1 that it is a black hole in which sir Penrose won 😆
Yeah hawking was never a great gambler 😂
😂😂
@@tinywillis u are right bro 😎
@Lisa Jordan but I think sir hawking made a huge contribution in solving black hole mysteries like
Hawking radiation and etc(I love it when I am reading his book😘😘
@Lisa Jordan yeah u are right
So is he basically saying that once our current universe has aged to the point at which there are only photons left, dimensions become meaningless and it's therefore equivalent to a single point of infinite density just like at the start of the big bang?
Yes.
Not just dimensions but time. The space-time manifold only has meaning in the presence of mass-rest-mass to be precise. In the final heat-death of the universe, it has lost all means of spatial and temporal self-mensuration. The photons have relative wavelengths but only relative to each other.
It is no longer big nor small, and clocks cease to tick; clocks cease to exist.
It's like the pin-ball machine resets to zero and you start from scratch.
@@-danR If the the universe in its final seconds is very cold, how come the big bang that follows is very hot? I am still not really understanding the transition from a photon-only heat-death universe in which dimensions and time cease to exist to the subsequent extremely hot big bang that follows.
@@jona826 Imagine the photon-only heat-death universe... now condense that down to the size of a marble. Now it's hot again!
Finally someone that understands the universe is infinite, it has no beginning and no end, just like energy, it can't be created nor destroyed. Time by the way, is a localized illusion.
It’s amazing we are here....
Just as a scale.... if you pulled a measuring tape across our known universe... and that number equals all the gravity in the universe.....then you marked the center ( 50% on the left, 50% on the right).... if that mark was moved 1 inch.... left or right.... Our universe wouldn’t be here... that it would of collapse in on its self......
Beating the Odds... I’d rather be lucky than good...!!!!!
Many many congratulations to Roger Penrose Sir to receive Noble prize this year. I know from U-tube video interview about his efforts to work on consciousness. I feel, he is a saint keen to know oneself.
Thoroughly nice bloke ...and looks great for a man of almost 90 years!
A short clip to celebrate Noble Prize winning of Roger Penrose:ruclips.net/video/mDuF64tHStY/видео.html
Does the cameraman need the toilet? He's all over the place.
I thought maybe he was trying to keep the girl in the skirt in the shot, but then she’s clearly being directed out of frame (hilarious, by the way) and the camera keeps right on bobbing and weaving like a slow motion prize fight.
@@drewford4548 I was about to comment this
the cameraman might have been a pretentious film student showing off his mad skills
Camera man is falling into a k hole
This is a two-camera shoot. Could you imagine poor Penrose trying to keep on-point with these two dummies slowly floating around distractingly training cameras on them. I had to stop watching and just listened.
Well then. That about sums that up. We're on a bungee cord. Was, is and evermore shall be, just changing states. In fact, I just changed states, from Georgia to North Carolina. Carolina was always on my mind. I need to go to bed, it's way too late for this!!
As long as your not in a state of confusion. :-)
I just want to know what this guy is making for James Bond this year...
Never heard anyone puting forward that particular idea. And it's brilliant ! A true genius !
I am amazed how the most brilliant physicists and mathematicians devote their mind to studying cosmetology- for example, the infinite hair weave and fractals observed in the nail bed and periungual.
Sorry, but simply I did not understand what Roger was saying. I do understand point about size scale but not about coldness of universe in future and hotness of big bang beyond it again.
+1
Great question. It's such a relief to see an intelligent comment in this ocean of semi-literate ramblings. I'll do some research on that. Thanks.
@@ferdinandkraft857 do comment here if you find any answer.
Thanks.
: )
Entropy leading, paradoxically, to another Big Bang in a series of many.
@@apuravmahajan283 I've found this:
General relativistic statistical mechanics
Carlo Rovelli
Physical Review D 87 (8), 084055, 2013
"Understanding thermodynamics and statistical mechanics in the fully general relativistic context is an open problem. I give tentative definitions of equilibrium state, mean values, mean geometry, entropy and temperature [...]"
If Carlo Rovelli cannot give a definitive answer, none of us can.
The camera movements are just so distracting, playing with that slider back and forth
I agree. Way too much movement.
The problem with all these discussions is that you’re trying to understsnd the universe you’re inherently part of as an outside spectator. Meaning we’re all in a stage of mental illness, trying to navigate our way back home. Little kids are basically the only ones that truly “understsnd” what this universe is about.
The camera operator is very skillful at searching the best angle.
May be his skills would be highly appreciated in another production.
Sir Penrose's video reminds me i have to read Shadows of the mind.Watching his interview makes me regret myself not knowing maths so much.
The interviewer looks a bit like Einstein in his old days. It gives me the feeling that I am looking at an absurdist play hahaha.
I am astonished, this is a scientific approach very similar to the tibetan Buddhism understanding of the cosmos. No beginning, no end, but a sequence of eons.
Interesting to listen a modern physicist talking about something that is explained in such an ancient teachings. What an interesting coincidence.
This same idea also is evidenced in Richard Maurice Bucke's book, Cosmic Consciousness, in the mystical experiences of a couple of his respondents and implied in his own experience.
So.. the very first aeon must have had a beginning??
I don't know what his position is, but it isn't logically necessary for there to have been a first aeon. There could be an infinite causal chain. It may seem odd, but nothing precludes this.
@@bsadewitz indeed. The key word is "causal".👍🏻
the first real mathematician to win a Nobel Prize. he is an inspiration to the rest of us!
Not the first:
Bertrand Russell, 1950 Literature
Herbert Hauptman, 1985 Chemistry
John Nash, 1994 Economic Sciences
Clive Granger, 2003 Economic Sciences
Food for Thought 👍👍
But, questions can never end...
a) If You find the most/last fundamental particle... the very next question will be..."From where this last fundamental particle came?"
b) If You find God... the very next question will be..."From where God came?"
c) If You say this last fundamental particle/God existed always.... the next questions will be...
"Who/Which rule decided that the God is to be good/powerful/one etc. (Why not many Gods/less powerful God/evil God)"
"Which rule decided that the last fundamental particle will have these properties only, which it will possess...why not some different properties?"
"How can an immaterial God make something material? What is the process behind this conversion?"
What is the energy source of an immaterial thing by which it can sustain?
etc.
etc.
Therefore in spirituality/Yoga they say that we should focus on achieving Supreme Happiness (Happiness/Bliss that never goes away).
Even if we find everything in the universe, ultimately we will achieve satisfaction/happiness.
So, they say don't give much importance to knowledge (because questions can never end)...but give importance to the path which leads you to a state of default/supreme happiness, which once achieved never ever goes away..
God is nothing but this state. Once we achieve this state, they say, we are no different from God...then, we become God.
I hope to see CCC being proven correct while Roger's still as he is.
That's not how science works...we can falsify hypotheses, but never prove a particular one is 'correct'.
I'm no astrophysicist, nor physicist chemist mathematician philosopher of any sort but when I first heard about the BB my response was why one beginning? Why not many? Because the idea of one beginning to me sounds too religious and I'm an agnostic. And if you look around you don't see one straight line but many cycles... But maybe I'm too dumb to conceive what qualify scientist talk about. When I first heard about black hole I wonder could they be the opposite of expansion, back to unity. And since there are as many black holes as galaxies, could those lead to other dimensions. And how do multiple dimensions interfere to one another? Also, where do we stand between the infinitely big and small!? I think I'm gonna bake a cake or watch an episode of Rick and Morty....
Go study science it' s super hard.. but knewledge is power
Entropy, thats why. More than one big bang is also religious. That infinite number of big bangs resemble the Hindu perspective but the Hindus have a time line, one big bang per 4,32 billion years followed by a creation of universes with all existence as we know it, then to another bb and another, however, Astrophysicists have measured the rate of entropy and say that mathematically 4.32 billion wont do the trick, you need 13 or 14 billion years just to get where we are today, and here we are. At 4.32 billion years there would be not enough time to get all the elements that it takes for life anywhere in the universe. The rate of entropy would be just too high.
@@fudgedogbannana 4.32 billion years is the length of a Kalpa ( half a day of Brahma ). After that we see the pralay ( the annihilation ) but not the entire universe, only of Earth and the solar system. It is after 100 Brahma years ( 311 trillion years) that a universe collapses into that from which it emerged. Currently the universe is 155 trillion years roughly acc to the Puranas
They will do anything to escape a beginning and therefore a beginner to whom we must give an account.
And you'll throw out any special pleading fallacy in order to get around your problem.
@@rubiks6 It's where you claim that your invisible friend is eternal, but the universe can't be.
@@rubiks6 Ff you'd like some actual ideas of what happened before the big bang, I suggest these videos. And guess what? None of them involved invisible friends.
ruclips.net/p/PLJ4zAUPI-qqqj2D8eSk7yoa4hnojoCR4m
@@rubiks6 lol, it's you against the world...
@David Lotti That's where his special pleading argument comes in.
Great interviewer. Lovely Penrose. Fantastic share.
At the very end is the most profound statement. It explains where the structure for the BB came from in the first place.