One needs to internalize the LANGUAGE, not some accidental, artificial form of the language called “New Testament Greek.” If I want to read the NIV, I would not set out to internalize “NIV English,” whatever that would mean. I would internalize ENGLISH-as a LANGUAGE. And then I would read the NIV. It is important to approach the biblical languages like this as much as possible. This allows us to see how a writer is using the language and be unconsciously aware of which words the writer COULD HAVE chosen but DIDN’T. Anyone fluent in a language who reads a text in that language will automatically process what they’re reading through this fuller lens, usually without even being aware of it.
To have comprehensible input, you really need to teach one morpheme at a time. That was Krashen's entire premise. You can check out our app (there is a free 10-day trial) to see how we have done it as an illustration.
Excellent! It’s important to note that one reason so many schools, administrators, and even professors are downgrading ancient language education is because they are not able to produce competent and fluent readers, and therefore reason that traditional curricula waste the time and money of students, who could (*shudder*) “just learn to use Logos instead” (I’ve heard this from an administrator). Reading remains the implied, assumed, or stated goal of these programs, but is a white whale for most students. To this end, however, I still agree with older grammarians like Zuntz, and with common standards for classical language learning (see the Standards for Classical Language Learning)-which are more-or-less traditional approaches-that do not see writing or speaking as end-markers of fluency vis-à-vis the ancient language, but as (necessary) tools to support the real important marker of fluency, which is *reading ability in the ancient texts*. An overemphasis on “homegrown” Greek, and on verbal composition, so often leaves students in a world of Anglicized (or whatever your mother tongue is) bastardizations of the language as it is known in the ancient texts, and these things should only be very carefully used IMO (JACT RG, Athenaze, and few others are actually very good as composed reading texts for CI reading; I also think dialogues and spoken interaction based off of real AG extracts-as are found in Zuntz-are far superior to the sort of live stammering that we do when working in acquiring second contemporary languages). So there remains a non-trivial difference between classical and contemporary languages, and 2LA research cannot simply be mapped on to ancient Gk acquisition in most places. Maybe in some select places (Vivarium Novum, Polis?) it can work (even still, reading > speaking / writing). But can this really work for the masses yet? Reading, speaking, writing - yes! But reading should be the real organizing standard and metric of success in programs whose stated aim is language understanding; all else should be used (or discarded) pedagogically if it does not support reading. Since grammar and linguistics remain as parallel and related domains of study and inquiry, and since they so often have been left out of general education, it remains an issue how various schools will address both. One way is to introduce students to language, grammar, and linguistics on their own, as a discrete area of study, and even before enrolling them in learning ancient languages.
I agree with you on most points, but I don’t agree with GNT onlyism. “I just want to read the New Testament”. The vocabulary that we see in the NT shows up in other texts (most importantly, the LXX). The more contexts we see those words in, the better we understand their meaning. Start with the NT and NT vocabulary? Yes. But, let’s encourage people to read as much as they can.
Agreed. Our point is that you should build fluency and then learn the vocabulary that is found in whatever corpus you are trying to read. We do the same in English. If you are a doctor, you need to know medical vocabulary. If you are not, you don't need to know all the terms. I agree that you should read more broadly than the NT in order to understand the NT (and the words found there), but the basic principle is that you want to learn the words found in the texts you are studying.
I really appreciate these videos. I am wanting to start teaching beginning Greek for my local church. My default was to go through Mounces BBG because that’s all I knew. Is there a curriculum you’d suggest? Some of them can’t afford Biblingo so I didn’t want to make them
Before I started with Biblingo, I used the free Alpha with Angela RUclips channel. It’s still in development, but it’s a good starting place. After that, I used the Scripturial app which is an affordable way to jump start biblical Greek learning in a comprehensible input fashion. Once I was out of lessons in both of those, I subscribed to Biblingo to keep moving forward.
If you want to get a group together to go through Biblingo, we'd be happy to give everyone a price that they can afford. We have done this with other groups (and even individuals who can't afford our regular pricing). Just email support@biblingo.org, and we can work something out.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
I have no idea who is right, but I started with Biblingo first 😅
One needs to internalize the LANGUAGE, not some accidental, artificial form of the language called “New Testament Greek.”
If I want to read the NIV, I would not set out to internalize “NIV English,” whatever that would mean. I would internalize ENGLISH-as a LANGUAGE. And then I would read the NIV.
It is important to approach the biblical languages like this as much as possible. This allows us to see how a writer is using the language and be unconsciously aware of which words the writer COULD HAVE chosen but DIDN’T. Anyone fluent in a language who reads a text in that language will automatically process what they’re reading through this fuller lens, usually without even being aware of it.
Could you provide a demonstration of initial lessons in a CI approach to koine Greek?
I teach Latin and am in between a rock and a hard place.
To have comprehensible input, you really need to teach one morpheme at a time. That was Krashen's entire premise. You can check out our app (there is a free 10-day trial) to see how we have done it as an illustration.
Excellent! It’s important to note that one reason so many schools, administrators, and even professors are downgrading ancient language education is because they are not able to produce competent and fluent readers, and therefore reason that traditional curricula waste the time and money of students, who could (*shudder*) “just learn to use Logos instead” (I’ve heard this from an administrator). Reading remains the implied, assumed, or stated goal of these programs, but is a white whale for most students.
To this end, however, I still agree with older grammarians like Zuntz, and with common standards for classical language learning (see the Standards for Classical Language Learning)-which are more-or-less traditional approaches-that do not see writing or speaking as end-markers of fluency vis-à-vis the ancient language, but as (necessary) tools to support the real important marker of fluency, which is *reading ability in the ancient texts*. An overemphasis on “homegrown” Greek, and on verbal composition, so often leaves students in a world of Anglicized (or whatever your mother tongue is) bastardizations of the language as it is known in the ancient texts, and these things should only be very carefully used IMO (JACT RG, Athenaze, and few others are actually very good as composed reading texts for CI reading; I also think dialogues and spoken interaction based off of real AG extracts-as are found in Zuntz-are far superior to the sort of live stammering that we do when working in acquiring second contemporary languages).
So there remains a non-trivial difference between classical and contemporary languages, and 2LA research cannot simply be mapped on to ancient Gk acquisition in most places. Maybe in some select places (Vivarium Novum, Polis?) it can work (even still, reading > speaking / writing). But can this really work for the masses yet? Reading, speaking, writing - yes! But reading should be the real organizing standard and metric of success in programs whose stated aim is language understanding; all else should be used (or discarded) pedagogically if it does not support reading. Since grammar and linguistics remain as parallel and related domains of study and inquiry, and since they so often have been left out of general education, it remains an issue how various schools will address both. One way is to introduce students to language, grammar, and linguistics on their own, as a discrete area of study, and even before enrolling them in learning ancient languages.
I agree with you on most points, but I don’t agree with GNT onlyism. “I just want to read the New Testament”. The vocabulary that we see in the NT shows up in other texts (most importantly, the LXX). The more contexts we see those words in, the better we understand their meaning.
Start with the NT and NT vocabulary? Yes. But, let’s encourage people to read as much as they can.
Agreed. Our point is that you should build fluency and then learn the vocabulary that is found in whatever corpus you are trying to read. We do the same in English. If you are a doctor, you need to know medical vocabulary. If you are not, you don't need to know all the terms. I agree that you should read more broadly than the NT in order to understand the NT (and the words found there), but the basic principle is that you want to learn the words found in the texts you are studying.
Great work
tichnicality, prisint tinse, tixt... It's so hard for me to process that e = i accent.
Brilliant!!!
so which method is the quickest to learn biblical Hebrew and Greek when no one speaks it?
I really appreciate these videos. I am wanting to start teaching beginning Greek for my local church. My default was to go through Mounces BBG because that’s all I knew. Is there a curriculum you’d suggest? Some of them can’t afford Biblingo so I didn’t want to make them
Before I started with Biblingo, I used the free Alpha with Angela RUclips channel. It’s still in development, but it’s a good starting place. After that, I used the Scripturial app which is an affordable way to jump start biblical Greek learning in a comprehensible input fashion. Once I was out of lessons in both of those, I subscribed to Biblingo to keep moving forward.
Mark Jeong has a graded reader that starts with easy dialogues and builds up slowly.
If you want to get a group together to go through Biblingo, we'd be happy to give everyone a price that they can afford. We have done this with other groups (and even individuals who can't afford our regular pricing). Just email support@biblingo.org, and we can work something out.