When you are done tracking and it's time to mix ... do you find you are routing out very many tracks and processing with outboard - or are you mostly trying to get things how they are going to be during the tracking? Asked another way - are you doing much compression on tracks after the fact?
@@QuestForGear I try to get the sound I want during tracking so that when I got to mixdown I don't have to do a lot of work. I don't use a lot of compression. I also find the DP32's mixdown / mastering is awesome!
Despite having the Model 24 - are you finishing most everything in the DP? Do you have a video showing the minutia or your workflow? (You might, and I may have missed it )
I have some very old 8 track cassette recordings from back in the day. They actually sound pretty good but its the tape compression that makes it work.
Nice! I've got tons of 4-track tapes but no way to play them. And they were from a Fostex - so the speed is weird on them and I can't play them in just ANY 4-track out there. "tape compression that makes it work" - for sure- it's a sound many of us are used to !
@@QuestForGear My best stuff was on a Yamaha 8 track. Like an idiot I sold it years ago. But before I did I ripped it into my PC. I was shocked how good it sounded. The only outboard compressor was a Alesis 3630 on the vocals. There was some reverb here and there but that was it. You can hunt down some old school TASCAM reel to reel machine and fix them up and go that route.
I work in IT all day. I went dawless to get away from the computer that I've been on all day. What I found is as a side effect, the limitations inspired creativity and it made me learn the tools I do have better. On my daw, I can spend hours browsing vsts and patches, which can be fun, but i'd rather be recording and arranging things.
Me as well IT all day (and some of the night). Don't want to spend another minute in front of the computer. It kills me when commenters on here say I just 'didn't learn Reaper'. Given the time to do so - I could develop a program like Reaper. It's not a matter of 'can't learn Reaper' it's a matter of 'don't want to be on a computer to play music'. Appreciate your comment, Happy New Year!
The model 24 looks limited in how you want to work. The new Tascam 2400 I think would be a better fit. You get comprehensive metering, you get inserts on channels 1-12 and a nice master bus processor, that you can easily swap for outboard if wanted. Lots of routing capabilities with the Aux and Bus connections, it goes on. Another option (one I'm looking into) is to use the Tascam Studio Bridge and an analog mixer like Allen & Heath Mix Wizard or Soundcraft FX16ii to name a couple. This method gives you all the routing flexibility for running outboard and the recording options of the Studio Bridge. My only problem is the size of the 2400, it's big otherwise it's a no brainer for recording. I haven't made a decision yet, but I do need more channels than my Model 12 has.
Studio bridge was a cool concept but it fails in the restriction on simultaneous punch ins. If you are working with a band and you want that drummer to redo a part of a song..better hope he only has 10 mics. If bass player also screwed up? Well now you only have 9 drum channels.
The reason we choose a hybrid workflow is to pick and choose the best parts of both realms. I've asked myself a lot of the same questions.. especially the in or out of the box question?! Whatever process works for you, is most comfortable, and gets you over the finish line is the right one for you. Personally, regarding the interface setup, I would absolutely use the Apollo and Tascam as an Aggregate and reap the benefit of being able to route in both the analogue and digital domains. If you make your way up the 401 towards TO, drop me a line. 🤜🤛 Cheers from Brampton.
You might want/need to make a virtual machine image with an old reaper environment for opening old sessions if there are breaking changes in the new ones, is that an option at all?
Yeah could do. I used to save/export all the Reaper settings and bring them forward install to install - but I got tired of the never ending tweaking. I used to have it dial in so tight ... now I just can't be bothered to get that detailed with it. I had a good session yesterday where I simply ignored all the Reaper BS I don't like... ie: Show Takes in Lanes.
I love the candid nature of this, apple juice for the win! Everyone's mileage will vary, I know what I need and it's 90% ITB w/ REAPER but I'm using my space to record my e drums for other people's beats and write, mixing is happening elsewhere. I do mix downs from live multitracks taken from a mixer for my function band, but I've not been able to access a lot old recordings on old machines.... . I really, really love the idea of archiving, I think there's some good thinking behind saving stems of RAW audio onto SD card to keep, even if you did a subsequent mix, that can join in as anew card for that song, in a box on a shelf, that's tactile AF. Doing this level of archive where the format is agnostic, raw data, reminds me of how someone would keep their photos backed up by simply buying a new card when each one was full.
Honestly, I like both ways of recording. I have a LiveTrak L-12, and love it for an interface if I want a song to have all the tracks I want, but on the other hand I also love the straight forward way of doing it just on the board when I want something that just gets out of the way and lets me do my thing...recording a six piece band? Sure. Recording yourself and guitar, maybe drums...slightly harder straight in if you're only one person doing it all. Any recommendations for adding drums into project if you're the one drumming and controling the board?
Yes - for recording it's great... no computer needed, no latency... it just is what it is. It's when I start to mix that I don't always love it and want to retreat back to the computer only.
I use the model 24 to track then put the sd card in my my computer for mixing and editing,then go to my outboard mix bus gear. It's nice to not have to deal with a computer during tracking headache free.
And maybe that's how I need to look at it.... Tracking only on the SD-Card - and Reaper Only for mixing. If I can cleanly separate the two things... which just means.... deciding to do it and sticking to it... that could work. Appreciate your comment.
Hybrid for me: I love having the physical interface of sliders, knobs and buttons, rather than a mouse ... but I want the Cubase/Reaper sitting behind all that for all the effect inserts, compressors etc. I've run sound desks at events with no obvious computer (and on a Behringer X32 desk for far too complex a set up!) I'll record some stuff on a Zoom H4n (particularly live) but I'll do editing and adding drums and such in Cubase, and then mix and master from there. But it's possible to get into horrendous numbers of tracks in Cubase when you add an unnecessary orchestra with multiple tracks for every instrument and every articulation of every instrument. And it's so easy to just get lost in all the features and add-ins and VSTs etc. So you end up not recording any new music as you spend weeks trying to polish a turd :D Oh, and backup your SD cards as (like anything physical) nothing lasts forever ... old 2" tapes shed oxide, stretch and catch fire ...
I had a good session yesterday - kept things nice and simple. I let Reaper be the Tape Recorder and let the Tascam Modek 24 be the preamps and as well the faders for playback. I think I just needed to get this video off my chest and then step back - take an easier look at things. Best session in a long while.
Like it or not, Hybrid is the way.. organize your tracks or stems with whatever effects you want from reaper on them and THEN send out to the TASCAM and mix it for the width. Yeah the dream is no screen as you've mentioned before but it becomes a huge pain in the ass. What the world needs is an Alesis HD24 comeback with new features. Alesis, do it! End of the day, treat the computer you record on like a tape machine. Make sure it can turn on and load 20 years from now and you can open all your projects and files just as you do today
A credible producer I've got to talk with often uses Alesis HD24 - so I have looked into it and I agree with you. They should bring this back. What ever happened to RADAR? Didn't people love that? That was similar right? Appreciate your comment.
@@QuestForGear Yes it was similar but had a controller with it and was proprietary so rather niche.. and expensive. The Alesis is still a good unit but the converters are behind what we have in intermediate gear. Also, I spent probably 3K on my converters to get analog in/out so I wanna use the stuff! But it is so simple.. right to hard drive. So as long as those hard drives don't die. all your tracks are there. I thought the studio bridge they just released had promise but come on, you can only do punch ins on 10 simultaneous tracks? What's up with that? That's a step back.. the Alesis could do all 24. But I def feel you.. I get frustrated in the daw sometimes. I feel like i am watching a bouncing ball at times. Fixed on the stupid screen.
Also, the answer to your drum issue. This is how I roll. In reaper I go K-S-Tom 1, 2 ( Left channel) - Tom 3-4 (right channel) - RL 5-6 Overheads + RL room mixed in to overheads. 7-8 parallel comp if you want that. You use these groups as sends in Reaper to a plugin EQ and comp if your outboard sucks. I have enough outboard so I can just go out to board and then use my inserts on my Ramsa console. So I end up with 6 - 8 tracks out to the board. You've then got another 16-18 on your tascam. (or is it 22 and 2 master channels, either way you get the idea) So for me, I simplify the physical mixing by already using broken out groups. Bass takes or doubling I'd throw on same track. You could track into the box,tascam no screen. Then you could do a daw session where you organize your tracks and use sends ( like you would in analog) to plug ins for each drum etc. Then you hit the mix stage where everything is grouped and prepped and pushes out to your mixer for mixdown. Again, screen off for the most part now, use your ears. So to make this work even better, you should invest in a 2 bus comp and eq. Why not throw some cash down on Tegeler creme that combines those or really just grab a warm bus comp as you mentioned and two mono Pultec ish units ( like solid state Lindell ones at 550$ a pop) and throw them there. Yes an investment but once you get that 2 bus handled, you will be able to screen off and go old school. Hybrid is great, but takes some planning.
why not use both DAW and stand alone recorder the music matters so use the tools available to you simplicety is key Just got a Cassette Portastudio also the Zoom R16 I have Reaper and Logic
7 years working on an album? Jeez, how can anyone listen to the same bunch of tracks for that long? I think you should just wrap it up. It's done. If it's not done by now, it'll never be done. Just mix down whatever you have, and be done with it already. Throw it to the wolves and get those 3 monthly Spotify listeners. Move on to another project, or just focus entirely on making yt videos instead.
Yes you are right. It's embarrassing at this point. I did other work /recorded other bands - but yeah - this album is approaching Axel Rose levels of waste.
Gosh I have these same arguments with myself! I hear you! 😆 Best wishes for this new year.
I'm very glad to hear it's not just me then!
Happy New Year to you as well!
The joys of doing it DAWless, it is a lot of work, but it is worth it in the end.
When you are done tracking and it's time to mix ... do you find you are routing out very many tracks and processing with outboard - or are you mostly trying to get things how they are going to be during the tracking? Asked another way - are you doing much compression on tracks after the fact?
@@QuestForGear I try to get the sound I want during tracking so that when I got to mixdown I don't have to do a lot of work. I don't use a lot of compression. I also find the DP32's mixdown / mastering is awesome!
Despite having the Model 24 - are you finishing most everything in the DP? Do you have a video showing the minutia or your workflow? (You might, and I may have missed it )
@@QuestForGear Yeah, the DP32 is pretty much my last step in the process for whatever I do. I do have videos on it too, lots of them.
Right on, I'll dig through them, thanks.
I have some very old 8 track cassette recordings from back in the day. They actually sound pretty good but its the tape compression that makes it work.
Nice! I've got tons of 4-track tapes but no way to play them. And they were from a Fostex - so the speed is weird on them and I can't play them in just ANY 4-track out there. "tape compression that makes it work" - for sure- it's a sound many of us are used to !
@@QuestForGear My best stuff was on a Yamaha 8 track. Like an idiot I sold it years ago. But before I did I ripped it into my PC. I was shocked how good it sounded. The only outboard compressor was a Alesis 3630 on the vocals. There was some reverb here and there but that was it. You can hunt down some old school TASCAM reel to reel machine and fix them up and go that route.
I still have my old Boss BR8 from years ago. It used cartridges sorta like an old Nintendo. Bout impossible to find those.
I work in IT all day. I went dawless to get away from the computer that I've been on all day. What I found is as a side effect, the limitations inspired creativity and it made me learn the tools I do have better. On my daw, I can spend hours browsing vsts and patches, which can be fun, but i'd rather be recording and arranging things.
Me as well IT all day (and some of the night). Don't want to spend another minute in front of the computer. It kills me when commenters on here say I just 'didn't learn Reaper'. Given the time to do so - I could develop a program like Reaper. It's not a matter of 'can't learn Reaper' it's a matter of 'don't want to be on a computer to play music'. Appreciate your comment, Happy New Year!
The model 24 looks limited in how you want to work. The new Tascam 2400 I think would be a better fit. You get comprehensive metering, you get inserts on channels 1-12 and a nice master bus processor, that you can easily swap for outboard if wanted. Lots of routing capabilities with the Aux and Bus connections, it goes on. Another option (one I'm looking into) is to use the Tascam Studio Bridge and an analog mixer like Allen & Heath Mix Wizard or Soundcraft FX16ii to name a couple. This method gives you all the routing flexibility for running outboard and the recording options of the Studio Bridge. My only problem is the size of the 2400, it's big otherwise it's a no brainer for recording. I haven't made a decision yet, but I do need more channels than my Model 12 has.
Studio bridge was a cool concept but it fails in the restriction on simultaneous punch ins. If you are working with a band and you want that drummer to redo a part of a song..better hope he only has 10 mics. If bass player also screwed up? Well now you only have 9 drum channels.
@@Polentaccio yeah that would be a problem for some. For myself my drummer is remote, so we do DAW sessions.
Wow that's... crazy. I can't imagine why that limitation would even exist.
Working on the same album for 6 years...I've been there.
Yeah it's Axel Rose levels of insanity at this point. It's embarrassing.
HYbrid is fun...I record in Reaper and mix through Mackie 24 8 and I love it
I did a Hybrid yesterday - kept it simple - Tascam Model 24 as an interface to Reaper. Had a good time ... best session in a long time.
I use a similar approach but worse: a dp24SD I wanna replace with studio bridge, or a 24 hard disc recorder because I recently got a inline console 😅
" inline console" - what did you get?
@QuestForGear soundtracs Topaz 24 /8 bus. 48 inputs can merge at mixdown. 😁
I'm not equipped to utilize it fully
The reason we choose a hybrid workflow is to pick and choose the best parts of both realms. I've asked myself a lot of the same questions.. especially the in or out of the box question?! Whatever process works for you, is most comfortable, and gets you over the finish line is the right one for you. Personally, regarding the interface setup, I would absolutely use the Apollo and Tascam as an Aggregate and reap the benefit of being able to route in both the analogue and digital domains. If you make your way up the 401 towards TO, drop me a line. 🤜🤛 Cheers from Brampton.
You might want/need to make a virtual machine image with an old reaper environment for opening old sessions if there are breaking changes in the new ones, is that an option at all?
Yeah could do. I used to save/export all the Reaper settings and bring them forward install to install - but I got tired of the never ending tweaking. I used to have it dial in so tight ... now I just can't be bothered to get that detailed with it. I had a good session yesterday where I simply ignored all the Reaper BS I don't like... ie: Show Takes in Lanes.
I love the candid nature of this, apple juice for the win! Everyone's mileage will vary, I know what I need and it's 90% ITB w/ REAPER but I'm using my space to record my e drums for other people's beats and write, mixing is happening elsewhere. I do mix downs from live multitracks taken from a mixer for my function band, but I've not been able to access a lot old recordings on old machines.... . I really, really love the idea of archiving, I think there's some good thinking behind saving stems of RAW audio onto SD card to keep, even if you did a subsequent mix, that can join in as anew card for that song, in a box on a shelf, that's tactile AF. Doing this level of archive where the format is agnostic, raw data, reminds me of how someone would keep their photos backed up by simply buying a new card when each one was full.
Honestly, I like both ways of recording. I have a LiveTrak L-12, and love it for an interface if I want a song to have all the tracks I want, but on the other hand I also love the straight forward way of doing it just on the board when I want something that just gets out of the way and lets me do my thing...recording a six piece band? Sure. Recording yourself and guitar, maybe drums...slightly harder straight in if you're only one person doing it all. Any recommendations for adding drums into project if you're the one drumming and controling the board?
Awesome man so this tascam would be great for say recording your own vocals with no latency right cheers
Yes - for recording it's great... no computer needed, no latency... it just is what it is. It's when I start to mix that I don't always love it and want to retreat back to the computer only.
I use the model 24 to track then put the sd card in my my computer for mixing and editing,then go to my outboard mix bus gear. It's nice to not have to deal with a computer during tracking headache free.
And maybe that's how I need to look at it.... Tracking only on the SD-Card - and Reaper Only for mixing. If I can cleanly separate the two things... which just means.... deciding to do it and sticking to it... that could work. Appreciate your comment.
Hybrid for me: I love having the physical interface of sliders, knobs and buttons, rather than a mouse ... but I want the Cubase/Reaper sitting behind all that for all the effect inserts, compressors etc. I've run sound desks at events with no obvious computer (and on a Behringer X32 desk for far too complex a set up!)
I'll record some stuff on a Zoom H4n (particularly live) but I'll do editing and adding drums and such in Cubase, and then mix and master from there.
But it's possible to get into horrendous numbers of tracks in Cubase when you add an unnecessary orchestra with multiple tracks for every instrument and every articulation of every instrument. And it's so easy to just get lost in all the features and add-ins and VSTs etc. So you end up not recording any new music as you spend weeks trying to polish a turd :D
Oh, and backup your SD cards as (like anything physical) nothing lasts forever ... old 2" tapes shed oxide, stretch and catch fire ...
I had a good session yesterday - kept things nice and simple. I let Reaper be the Tape Recorder and let the Tascam Modek 24 be the preamps and as well the faders for playback. I think I just needed to get this video off my chest and then step back - take an easier look at things. Best session in a long while.
Like it or not, Hybrid is the way.. organize your tracks or stems with whatever effects you want from reaper on them and THEN send out to the TASCAM and mix it for the width. Yeah the dream is no screen as you've mentioned before but it becomes a huge pain in the ass. What the world needs is an Alesis HD24 comeback with new features. Alesis, do it! End of the day, treat the computer you record on like a tape machine. Make sure it can turn on and load 20 years from now and you can open all your projects and files just as you do today
A credible producer I've got to talk with often uses Alesis HD24 - so I have looked into it and I agree with you. They should bring this back. What ever happened to RADAR? Didn't people love that? That was similar right? Appreciate your comment.
@@QuestForGear Yes it was similar but had a controller with it and was proprietary so rather niche.. and expensive. The Alesis is still a good unit but the converters are behind what we have in intermediate gear. Also, I spent probably 3K on my converters to get analog in/out so I wanna use the stuff! But it is so simple.. right to hard drive. So as long as those hard drives don't die. all your tracks are there. I thought the studio bridge they just released had promise but come on, you can only do punch ins on 10 simultaneous tracks? What's up with that? That's a step back.. the Alesis could do all 24. But I def feel you.. I get frustrated in the daw sometimes. I feel like i am watching a bouncing ball at times. Fixed on the stupid screen.
Also, the answer to your drum issue. This is how I roll. In reaper I go K-S-Tom 1, 2 ( Left channel) - Tom 3-4 (right channel) - RL 5-6 Overheads + RL room mixed in to overheads. 7-8 parallel comp if you want that. You use these groups as sends in Reaper to a plugin EQ and comp if your outboard sucks. I have enough outboard so I can just go out to board and then use my inserts on my Ramsa console. So I end up with 6 - 8 tracks out to the board. You've then got another 16-18 on your tascam. (or is it 22 and 2 master channels, either way you get the idea) So for me, I simplify the physical mixing by already using broken out groups. Bass takes or doubling I'd throw on same track. You could track into the box,tascam no screen. Then you could do a daw session where you organize your tracks and use sends ( like you would in analog) to plug ins for each drum etc. Then you hit the mix stage where everything is grouped and prepped and pushes out to your mixer for mixdown. Again, screen off for the most part now, use your ears. So to make this work even better, you should invest in a 2 bus comp and eq. Why not throw some cash down on Tegeler creme that combines those or really just grab a warm bus comp as you mentioned and two mono Pultec ish units ( like solid state Lindell ones at 550$ a pop) and throw them there. Yes an investment but once you get that 2 bus handled, you will be able to screen off and go old school. Hybrid is great, but takes some planning.
why not use both DAW and stand alone recorder the music matters so use the tools available to you simplicety is key Just got a Cassette Portastudio also the Zoom R16 I have Reaper and Logic
Yes you are right. I did a session yesterday using both - was the most enjoyable session in a long while. Cheers!
7 years for 11 tracks ffs
Forget the dilemma and just go “in the box” and get on with the creative side of your art
Yeah - it's embarrassing at this point. Axel Rose works faster.
Yes but not as big a time as Kraftwerk take to do an album 😆
7 years working on an album? Jeez, how can anyone listen to the same bunch of tracks for that long? I think you should just wrap it up. It's done. If it's not done by now, it'll never be done. Just mix down whatever you have, and be done with it already. Throw it to the wolves and get those 3 monthly Spotify listeners. Move on to another project, or just focus entirely on making yt videos instead.
Yes you are right. It's embarrassing at this point. I did other work /recorded other bands - but yeah - this album is approaching Axel Rose levels of waste.