Hi Sam just a quick tip for meshing gears that I've used for years in fine engineering work. A single cigarette paper between the gears when assembling the drive train gives perfect clearance with minimum backlash
@@keithg1xfl I doubt loo roll paper would be any use - the single sheet stuff might be if it is still available (it also made excellent tracing paper...). I might be imagining it but don't some people say the foil wrap off chewing gum is right for gear clearances? I'd imagine that would be a lot thicker than cigarette paper but I'm not sure.
@@gagatube you can purchase cigarette rolling paper from any tobacconist without actually purchasing the tobacco. The cigarette paper is processed so it is much more malleable and easy to fit around the drive teeth
I know, the cigarette paper trick goes way back! To date, I have never found a worm that was compatible with the gears, so have had to build new gear boxes to match. Also, those nylon worms and gears are brilliant as I recently scratch-built new EM bogies with (central motor and brass universal drives onto Gibson coach wheels) with those nylon worms and gears for all four axles, to go under a second-hand Lima GW Express parcels diesel body.
And you can even add a flywheel, a great idea, especially with a low inertia motor like a coreless one. Splendid idea to ressucitate a shelf queen, I buy it with a 3D printer ! That's a great slap in the face of the manufacturers too : you can have better geared engines with slower motors and flywheel on a shoestring. I pay the greatest attention to your experiments with 3D printers. My forthcoming PLM 3D printed engines would benefit from this. An Idea I have : get a complete rodding with laser cut brass sheets... An idea for you ?
Hello 'Sam's Trains', I have followed your vlogs for a few years, my word you are a clever 'chap', great to see these older trains coming back to life, good to watch . regards, RichardA.
Hey Sam. as someone who printed some stuff myself, I would like to kindly ask you to release your designs individually. I saw you have a short and tall base variant, it would be nice of you to release each base and the top part all individually. I know, it is 3 files then, but it would be nicer if someone needs a spare and not print a whole new adapter. I'm not angry, I'm always thankful for everyone putting in thought and work on these little things.
This is actually something I really needed to hear. I have this dirt cheap (probably cost like $30 for the set) loco that had a dead motor in it and it's perfect for me to test this out on. I needed something small to try to learn how to create my own 3d parts and I think this is perfect. Well done Sam and I'm glad to see you've taken to 3d printing.
I've used these (13.5k) motors in my P4 Metropolitan locos, and can confirm they really need a small flywheel, and running-in before they crawl properly. Hadn't thought of using them as replacements in RTR models. Well done.
I've seen those motors advertised for a few years now, and have often wondered. I tried fitting a Pendolino 5-pole, or Castle - forget which - motor to replace the hopelessly performing Bachmann Jubilee I had at the time ... My problem is I don't have a 3D printer, but it NEARLY worked, with a motor at least twice as good ... would have been a nice fix! Great that you're giving the Community additional ideas Sam. Thanks for sharing. Al.
Nice work Sam, Iv'e done something similar for my Triang Jinty and a old pocket rocket 0-4-0 Blue '7178' getting hold of the motors here in Candida is near to impossible and shipping costs from England are more than the hornby/Triang motors, so I used a mini 6 pole motor yes 6 pole from AliExpress for $5 CND about £3. They work better than ever, Its slowed down the 0-4-0 and now can crawl, both loco are great shunters and seem to have a realistic top speed at about 10 volts. I look forward to seeing more motor swaps.
@@macnavi There's "making money" and then there's "extortion"... or just plain old "gouging". Bachmann designed things such that you had to go through them for replacement motors without major alteration work, and then charge significantly more than the value of the product (which they are already masters at for all their products).
Great video once again! I was thinking….. you could create a 3d printed object that fits into the tender of the 9f that many suffer from mazak rot and disintegrate. You could make it so that it clips into place (like the old ringfield enclosure) whilst allowing it to hold the electrical pickups and the wheel axels. This would help a lot of people such as myself whom have a dead 9f due to the tender ringfield enclosure turning to dust 😁
Meanwhile at Bachmann headquarters the R&D department are having a meeting. "We have news that someone has figured out how to repair and improve our locomotives without using our parts. We need to download those files and make the parts and replacement motor more expensive". Good idea Sam, it's a shame that there aren't any small metal milling machines to create a metal worm drive. It seems 3D printing upgrades is becoming a popular idea now as Peter's Spares does upgraded gears for old Lima motors and detail parts for locomotives. They have also done some upgraded non traction tyre wheel sets for the old Lima and Hornby DMU's and diesel/electric locomotives.
@@SamsTrains i'd imagine that the rotational mass of the motor is so low that even a 3d printed flywheel printed at 100% infill would yield beneficial results!
Brilliant Sam, it's about time somebody showed these people we are not all cash cows. No doubt the rivet counters will have something to say. Keep up the great work. Frank
A genuine mastermind at work, brilliant. As many have commented previously, but indeed even adding a flywheel could perhaps be done. We are also wondering if even a brass worm drive could be found. Next… knock, knock, “We are lawyers of Bachmann…” Lol, just joking. A genius solution Sam :)
I've been working on my own motor housings for the Bachmann thomas range for a while now. Recently made one for Edward, also made one for toby. Then I've also designed some for Thomas and Percy. I plan on redesigning Thomas, and Percy was designed for just the chassis without the top. All excluding the gearing for the eyes. I can share the finished design with you if you want to try them out. Though they use the Bachmann motors, you can always design another fitting to work with the motor you used here.
Great video Sam, I wonder if it would be possible to adapt a motor similar to this to get an old Triang 156 emu working again with the use of a worm drive on each end of the drive shaft?
Hi Sam, you really are a friend to the model railway enthusiast. All your work creating the cradle then giving it out for free. Awesome. Not everyone has a 3d printer and it is a bit expensive for just a few small items. Would you consider producing and selling, on demand, case need? Last question; your title is it Sam’s’ Trains ( as in trains belonging to Sam) or Sam Strains ( as in pushing out a number two)?
Love this ive got a 5 pack of these with the one sided 28000 rpm option from either ebay or aliexpress which was under 10 dollars usd. Good to see how they run! I wonder if a larger diameter worm gear would slow it enough to factory crawl speeds and smooth out the action abit.
Great idea. This is the future for giving old locos a new lease of life when new models are so expensive. I'm looking forward to the time when I can buy adaptor cradles that allow you to replace x03 and X04 motors with coreless or 5 pole motors.
@@fenman1954 I do appreciate that some are still wonderful runners, but the ones I have, though, I have cleaned them and oiled them and replaced the I magnets and done all I can to make them serviceable, they are not good runners at all. As you cannot buy new ones there are no guarantees second hand replacements will be any better; they could even be worse. I'd like to give these locos a new lease of life.
Hi Sam. I've got a challenge. How about a locomotive with an n20 geared motor? You can get a 12v one off Ebay really cheap with a 1200rpm maximum speed, but it has a tonne of torque because of the super low gearing. Might make a really awesome shunter, would also probably be super loud though.
Love the look of this, Were you going to post a link to the motor you used? I had a quick look on Amazon and most of the motors I saw seemed to be about 4.5V, as a DC Model railway transformer goes up to 12V, won't that fry the motor pretty fast?
I often bought broken / in disrepair stuff from train Star wars and antique stores and train shows whenever I was a child with my grandparents in order to save money it was also fun for me to create Frankenstein locomotives using various different parts that I had it really did put me to the test to see what I could build and put together with my limited resources and knowledge
If you want to improve crawl why not try a gearhead motor? You can get tiny ones not much longer than this motor. This would also improve the torque that was lost by using a smaller motor diameter. Great that you are sharing the files Sam. This is how the 3d community has worked over the years. Cheers Gary
Looking at the mounting, you should be able mount a small flywheel. Wouldn't make a tremendous difference in performance, but would have a smoothing effect overall.
If the motor ever dies on my B-mann 9F, H1, or Super D, then I will definitely keep this replacement in mind. I've had the 9F apart to remove a blown capacitor and offered up some spare HO motors I have on hand (Bachmann 5-pole, Kato, Atlas, Canon) but all are too big. The 9F itself has a mounting cradle made completely of metal so the 3d-printed coreless mount might not work in this case. Another option I've considered is the 5-pole motor found in Atlas' N-scale diesels. They are very high quality and I've found an eBay seller that has them for cheap.
The issue about the coreles motors is that they are not always friendly with decoders. I fried a couple of decoders trying to have a Japanese Tsugawa Yokou N scale chassis with a coreles motor run on DCC, I even used ESU decoders that were recomended for coreless and probably ran fine with larger coreless motors.
Really interesting little project 👍 - if you just chose fairly cheap motors for you demo here, and they were pretty servicable, i wonder if there are better motors available that would be a proper "hardware upgrade"? Another thing that i thought was you seem to suddenly have space to pop in a tasty little flywheel (assuming you can buy these off the shelf?) The possibilities are endless! 😀
2 Questions: 1. Could you try and experiment with fitting the cheap, Hornby style £2 motors in a Bachmann loco? 2. Does this mod work on Bachmann Thomas models. I have no experience with their mechanisms but I know they fail a lot.
hi sam. i missed watching your review about the new rebuilt hush hush on the day. a great model for the price you paid for it. but i intend to stick to my guns and not buy models with out of this world prices. true i am missing out on new models. another great fix it cheap video... no whirring buzzing or squeaky noises ... would be a great fix even for new bachmann models which lack the umph in torque.
There used to be a motor called a Romford Bulldog, which was a 5 pole drop in replacement for the X.03/4. If only they were still available, and something similar for Bachmann models too of course.
Apologies if thyis had already been pointed out, but coreless motors should not cog due to their internal design. On your Patriot, I thought the worm was running well out of true; if you could re-use the Bachmann worm by sleeving the motor shaft, I would think you would have a winner. A ll very interesting and impressive. Thank you.
i wonder if the little n20 geared motors would be any good for moving the gear train on one of these locomotives? the n20 motors are used quite a lot in small robots and has great starting torque even with the faster motor and the gears are metal so they won't wear out as fast as the plastic gears
thats the differance between a model mechanic and a model engineer engineer makes its so the object works the mechanic just fits bits you buy from stock shops well done sam for this 1
Hi Sam in helpfull response to those who have requested adapters for X04 type motors replacements can be found in rummage boxes at swapmeets and a full refurb by Scalespeed who do a very good job.On the Bachman motor issue I have remotored several non split chassis locos with the appropriate Mashima 16xx series motors resulting in vastly improved performance only the removal of the original worm proving difficult but worthwhile.
Maybe print the mount a bit thicker than needed and then sand it down so you can get a perfect gear mesh (which may vary engine to engine)? Also, my (ebay purchased) non-DCC Bachmann steam loco had a Mabuchi FK-130SH motor in it, which can be found easily and very cheap. I just ordered one to replace the one that burned out. Hopefully the brass worm gear will come off (it is larger, 12 mm diam, 10 mm long and 2 mm shaft)
Sam, this is an excellent fix, well done! - Especially with your motor adapter and because you gave a source for the worm gears and even the screws needed! 😃 The only potential downside I could see is the longevity of the motor, particularly since it is completely enclosed and covered by the adapter so there is no chance of cooling. But then that design may not need any... only time and lots of usage will tell. ⏳
I was just wondering if you could add a flywheel to the other end of the shaft. Maybe resin some washers together or file down a worm gear to give you a central core to affix washers to.
You need inertial mass anywhere on the gear train to improve performance. These motors are so low torque a flywheel would not be effective. It would be better to add more mass to a downstream larger gear.
Did you compare the pulling power of the Bachmann 3 pole and those coreless motors? I've got a couple of old Bachmanns that struggle to pull more than 4 coaches. Maybe they are on the way out already. I'll be getting a few motors regardless. Thanks for the info and the basic adapter.👍
Great tutorial to resurrect dead Bach. locos. Some 'Master' here calls you 'our Robin Hood' and I join his comment ! Thanks for sharing this interesting video Sam.
Hey Sam, you’ve said in some of your reviews of more expensive models that the gearing is wrong and they run too fast (some of this years Bachman models come to mind). Could you 3D print new gears to “fix” these models (of course they shouldn’t need to be fixed with the price being charged!).
i replaced the n gauge original motors by coreless 7 mm diameter motors in dapol steam locos.it is an easy job because the motors are in the tender.no need to dismantle the loco.result:best quiet performance and even better enough space left to install a zimo sound decoder + sugar cube speaker.now i have the amazing reality operating fun.
Great video as always Sam. Would I be right in saying that most ( if not all?) Second hand models can be repaired? Saw a Scotsman on ebay 2 weeks ago that sold for £41 I think. If it didn't run great could it be fixed do you think? Aside from a knackered motor what else can wear out?
Hi Tony I don't profess to know a lot about repairing model trains, my thing is more classic cars and model boats, but I am interested in model trains. I would imagine a model would have to be really bad for it not to be repairable, it might take a bit of ingenuity but I don't see why any model shouldn't be repairable.
Most of them can be fixed. That is actually what I do to save money, just buy a broken engine and then fix it. Several things can cause an engine to run badly, at best the motor might need a service, gears might need some oil. At worst the motor might be dying or you might get an engine with a stripped or cracked gear.
@@Tonyr2 Depends. I would try and find an exploded view and then find the exact manufacturer part based off of the diagram. If you want to replace the motor with a cheap ebay motor, it's a bit of a gamble tbh, just find one that appears to be the same thing and hope it fits. Typically I just cough up the money for the official part that I know will fit.
I wonder if it would be possible to make an adapter to fit different gearing to help with slow running as in many small locos they run too fast and have poor crawl performance.
Thanks Sam. You are making some very interesting videos with your 3D printing and painting experiments. Of course, your loco and trainset reviews are also great. I have N scale, but I am thinking of trying the Hornby HM6000 bluetooth controller which seems very interesting. I believe it should work with my N scale which is a 12V DC system. I will let you know. Cheers from Canada :-)
Well the B12 and N2 aren’t Bachmann locos - unfortunately this will only work with certain Bachmann steamers... but you could use same the idea for almost anything!
It looks as if it should be possible to create the new motor cradle so that it fits inside the bachmann cradle without snipping. Perhaps you could try this when you make the height adjustment?
I would not be tempted to rush off and make this conversion until I'd seen it pull a train for several minutes. The current it will need to pull under load is much higher than a light loco and the subsequent heat might fry it.
Hey sam great solution Ive got a question if i have a point on my layout lets say its a sidding How would i put a loco in the siding and not have it move when i turn up the power for the loco on the mainline DC btw not DCC Keep up the great work -TC5
haha thanks so much! The trouble is space - the original motors are more or less an exact fit into a Bachmann body... and those motors are tall and thin... so picking something tiny increases compatibility across different models! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hey Sam just wanted to know where to get your diagram for the motor mount I didn’t see it you said I saw your video and you said put the link down but it just shows where how you do it and what you do he didn’t show like the description so do you mind sending it to me please
Thanks for the vid, I've ordered a motor but I can't find the worm drive to take a 1mm shaft (the ones on eBay are for 2mm shaft). Do you have a link for these?
Decent bit of work there Sam seems to work great, I must say though the only bachmann motor I have had to replace is the virgin voyager and when I bought the motor I got 2 of them for a decent price, I have never had to change a bachmann steam locomotive motor.
Since you have both shafts, is it possible to add a flywheel? You might find one on Aliexpress. Also, did you not need to put the capacitor back in the line from the old motor?
Thanks James! Though some of the Thomas models do use these motors, they're mounted quite differently... but sure, some kind of adapter could probably be made for those too! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The crawl was deff worse as you said but it’s been my understanding that coreless motors work better on DCC than on DC. Prob wrong as only been back to this hobby for a little over a year now. Great video though. Second hand Bachmann locos just got a whole lot better value in my eyes.
I wouldn’t want to use a type 7 motor - they’re very poor quality. That’s a great idea though - would be great to design an adapter for a better motor!
Am I right in assuming that model locos generally run too fast for their scaled speed? If so, and if you could report the maximum speeds in your reviews, then maybe manufacturers would provide higher gearing and therefore better low speed performance.
So Sam's rebuilds of locomotives (well model locos anyways). I am very glad that such solutions are presented for community i would suggest (in order to both dodge any copyright issues and to advertise your channel to call it something like Sam'sTrains replacement model H series?). But yeah right to repair at its best,, proprietary engine holders can not hold back a man with 3d printer .)
Hi Sam just a quick tip for meshing gears that I've used for years in fine engineering work. A single cigarette paper between the gears when assembling the drive train gives perfect clearance with minimum backlash
That's a great tip but, in this non-smoking world, what is the equivalent of a cigarette paper?
@@gagatube Loo Roll ??
@@keithg1xfl I doubt loo roll paper would be any use - the single sheet stuff might be if it is still available (it also made excellent tracing paper...). I might be imagining it but don't some people say the foil wrap off chewing gum is right for gear clearances? I'd imagine that would be a lot thicker than cigarette paper but I'm not sure.
@@gagatube you can purchase cigarette rolling paper from any tobacconist without actually purchasing the tobacco. The cigarette paper is processed so it is much more malleable and easy to fit around the drive teeth
I know, the cigarette paper trick goes way back! To date, I have never found a worm that was compatible with the gears, so have had to build new gear boxes to match. Also, those nylon worms and gears are brilliant as I recently scratch-built new EM bogies with (central motor and brass universal drives onto Gibson coach wheels) with those nylon worms and gears for all four axles, to go under a second-hand Lima GW Express parcels diesel body.
And you can even add a flywheel, a great idea, especially with a low inertia motor like a coreless one. Splendid idea to ressucitate a shelf queen, I buy it with a 3D printer !
That's a great slap in the face of the manufacturers too : you can have better geared engines with slower motors and flywheel on a shoestring.
I pay the greatest attention to your experiments with 3D printers. My forthcoming PLM 3D printed engines would benefit from this.
An Idea I have : get a complete rodding with laser cut brass sheets... An idea for you ?
agree. flywheel would be lot better at slow speed
Great job, Sam! This will teach the manufacturers. What about adding a flywheel on the shaft on the back of the motor?
I was going to ask the same thing.
I am surprised about not taking the opportunity for a flywheel too. What method do you suggest for accurately meshing the worm and motor Sam?
I can definitely use this! Maybe my Small Prairie isn't completely dead
Awesome!! Not sure whether this would fit in the small prairie... but you could probably adapt it so that it does! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
ive just fitted one of these motors in an n gauge large prairie and not to much of a problem
Hello 'Sam's Trains', I have followed your vlogs for a few years, my word you are a clever 'chap', great to see these older trains coming back to life, good to watch . regards, RichardA.
Incredible how small the motor is, I think it needs a flywheel to smooth out the action
Lathe time.
Oh, i Did not know Leo watched this
Hey Sam. as someone who printed some stuff myself, I would like to kindly ask you to release your designs individually. I saw you have a short and tall base variant, it would be nice of you to release each base and the top part all individually. I know, it is 3 files then, but it would be nicer if someone needs a spare and not print a whole new adapter. I'm not angry, I'm always thankful for everyone putting in thought and work on these little things.
You're our Robinhood, Sam. Genius work; thank you for this idea!
Hi Sam!
Great vid, how about making your own flywheel for the back of the shaft, see what that does to the performance?
This is actually something I really needed to hear. I have this dirt cheap (probably cost like $30 for the set) loco that had a dead motor in it and it's perfect for me to test this out on. I needed something small to try to learn how to create my own 3d parts and I think this is perfect. Well done Sam and I'm glad to see you've taken to 3d printing.
I've used these (13.5k) motors in my P4 Metropolitan locos, and can confirm they really need a small flywheel, and running-in before they crawl properly. Hadn't thought of using them as replacements in RTR models. Well done.
I've seen those motors advertised for a few years now, and have often wondered.
I tried fitting a Pendolino 5-pole, or Castle - forget which - motor to replace the hopelessly performing Bachmann Jubilee I had at the time ...
My problem is I don't have a 3D printer, but it NEARLY worked, with a motor at least twice as good ... would have been a nice fix!
Great that you're giving the Community additional ideas Sam.
Thanks for sharing.
Al.
Thanks Al - you can get great motors very cheaply these days - I've almost never been disappointed! Appreciate it anyway,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Nice work Sam, Iv'e done something similar for my Triang Jinty and a old pocket rocket 0-4-0 Blue '7178' getting hold of the motors here in Candida is near to impossible and shipping costs from England are more than the hornby/Triang motors, so I used a mini 6 pole motor yes 6 pole from AliExpress for $5 CND about £3. They work better than ever, Its slowed down the 0-4-0 and now can crawl, both loco are great shunters and seem to have a realistic top speed at about 10 volts.
I look forward to seeing more motor swaps.
I'd love to see both engines perform with different motors
That's interesting! Do you have the link for these motors? I also don't live in England so it's nearly impossible to get them
This is why I think you're great Sam- I love these types of techy videos.
Fascinating and Fan flipping tastic!!
I'm just happy it stops Bachmann ripping people off - one of their favourite activities in my experience!
Companies are suppose to make money. You might have mistaken it for a charity.
@@macnavi There's "making money" and then there's "extortion"... or just plain old "gouging". Bachmann designed things such that you had to go through them for replacement motors without major alteration work, and then charge significantly more than the value of the product (which they are already masters at for all their products).
Great video once again! I was thinking….. you could create a 3d printed object that fits into the tender of the 9f that many suffer from mazak rot and disintegrate. You could make it so that it clips into place (like the old ringfield enclosure) whilst allowing it to hold the electrical pickups and the wheel axels. This would help a lot of people such as myself whom have a dead 9f due to the tender ringfield enclosure turning to dust 😁
Nice job fixing these locomotives and saving them from getting scrapped by the scrap monster! 👍
Meanwhile at Bachmann headquarters the R&D department are having a meeting.
"We have news that someone has figured out how to repair and improve our locomotives without using our parts. We need to download those files and make the parts and replacement motor more expensive".
Good idea Sam, it's a shame that there aren't any small metal milling machines to create a metal worm drive. It seems 3D printing upgrades is becoming a popular idea now as Peter's Spares does upgraded gears for old Lima motors and detail parts for locomotives. They have also done some upgraded non traction tyre wheel sets for the old Lima and Hornby DMU's and diesel/electric locomotives.
Maybe a small flywheel could be fitted onto the other end of the motor
Yeah absolutely - one that's narrow enough and with a 1mm hole would be perfect! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains i'd imagine that the rotational mass of the motor is so low that even a 3d printed flywheel printed at 100% infill would yield beneficial results!
@@SamsTrains wouldn't the flywheel need to be balanced to run properly?
These motors are very low torque but high speed. Adding additional mass to the larger wheel would be more beneficial.
With a lathe, a flywheel would easy. But even if you got one off the net with a bigger internal diameter . You could 3d print a bush for it.
Awesome repair! You know, there's plenty of room on that other shaft to install a flywheel.
It’s probably a bonus having that back shaft on the motor, depending on the design you might be able to fit some sort of flywheel
Brilliant Sam, it's about time somebody showed these people we are not all cash cows. No doubt the rivet counters will have something to say. Keep up the great work. Frank
A genuine mastermind at work, brilliant. As many have commented previously, but indeed even adding a flywheel could perhaps be done. We are also wondering if even a brass worm drive could be found. Next… knock, knock, “We are lawyers of Bachmann…” Lol, just joking. A genius solution Sam :)
I've been working on my own motor housings for the Bachmann thomas range for a while now. Recently made one for Edward, also made one for toby. Then I've also designed some for Thomas and Percy. I plan on redesigning Thomas, and Percy was designed for just the chassis without the top. All excluding the gearing for the eyes. I can share the finished design with you if you want to try them out. Though they use the Bachmann motors, you can always design another fitting to work with the motor you used here.
Always nice to have options 😊
Really great episode Sam, fantastic to see your channel really adding solid value to the undertaking.
Best regards
You could put a small flywheel on the back shaft.
Great video Sam! Very innovative with that printer.
I love these kinds of How-to videos, Sam. This was great
Great video Sam, I wonder if it would be possible to adapt a motor similar to this to get an old Triang 156 emu working again with the use of a worm drive on each end of the drive shaft?
Hi Sam, you really are a friend to the model railway enthusiast. All your work creating the cradle then giving it out for free. Awesome. Not everyone has a 3d printer and it is a bit expensive for just a few small items. Would you consider producing and selling, on demand, case need? Last question; your title is it Sam’s’ Trains ( as in trains belonging to Sam) or Sam Strains ( as in pushing out a number two)?
Love this ive got a 5 pack of these with the one sided 28000 rpm option from either ebay or aliexpress which was under 10 dollars usd. Good to see how they run! I wonder if a larger diameter worm gear would slow it enough to factory crawl speeds and smooth out the action abit.
6:20 Of course, if you have a 3D printer, like you were talking about earlier, you could make a custom gear puller.
Great idea. This is the future for giving old locos a new lease of life when new models are so expensive. I'm looking forward to the time when I can buy adaptor cradles that allow you to replace x03 and X04 motors with coreless or 5 pole motors.
Why my X04 and X03 motors up to 55 years old run fine and are serviceable.
@@fenman1954 I do appreciate that some are still wonderful runners, but the ones I have, though, I have cleaned them and oiled them and replaced the I magnets and done all I can to make them serviceable, they are not good runners at all. As you cannot buy new ones there are no guarantees second hand replacements will be any better; they could even be worse. I'd like to give these locos a new lease of life.
Hi Sam. I've got a challenge. How about a locomotive with an n20 geared motor? You can get a 12v one off Ebay really cheap with a 1200rpm maximum speed, but it has a tonne of torque because of the super low gearing. Might make a really awesome shunter, would also probably be super loud though.
Love the look of this, Were you going to post a link to the motor you used? I had a quick look on Amazon and most of the motors I saw seemed to be about 4.5V, as a DC Model railway transformer goes up to 12V, won't that fry the motor pretty fast?
eBay is a better bet for motors, put "12 volt electric motor" in the search field.
This video & your free design are a great service to the MR community!
well done young chap. more proof of a bright future
one thing you forgot. this is recycling and green well done
roy
What do you recommend for replacement of the old Triang/Hornby X04 motor?
Wondering if you can do the same with the bachmann thomas and friends range.
With a bit of mods to the housing of the gears and motor
I often bought broken / in disrepair stuff from train Star wars and antique stores and train shows whenever I was a child with my grandparents in order to save money it was also fun for me to create Frankenstein locomotives using various different parts that I had it really did put me to the test to see what I could build and put together with my limited resources and knowledge
If you want to improve crawl why not try a gearhead motor? You can get tiny ones not much longer than this motor. This would also improve the torque that was lost by using a smaller motor diameter. Great that you are sharing the files Sam. This is how the 3d community has worked over the years. Cheers Gary
Looking at the mounting, you should be able mount a small flywheel. Wouldn't make a tremendous difference in performance, but would have a smoothing effect overall.
If the motor ever dies on my B-mann 9F, H1, or Super D, then I will definitely keep this replacement in mind. I've had the 9F apart to remove a blown capacitor and offered up some spare HO motors I have on hand (Bachmann 5-pole, Kato, Atlas, Canon) but all are too big. The 9F itself has a mounting cradle made completely of metal so the 3d-printed coreless mount might not work in this case.
Another option I've considered is the 5-pole motor found in Atlas' N-scale diesels. They are very high quality and I've found an eBay seller that has them for cheap.
The issue about the coreles motors is that they are not always friendly with decoders. I fried a couple of decoders trying to have a Japanese Tsugawa Yokou N scale chassis with a coreles motor run on DCC, I even used ESU decoders that were recomended for coreless and probably ran fine with larger coreless motors.
Really interesting little project 👍
- if you just chose fairly cheap motors for you demo here, and they were pretty servicable, i wonder if there are better motors available that would be a proper "hardware upgrade"?
Another thing that i thought was you seem to suddenly have space to pop in a tasty little flywheel (assuming you can buy these off the shelf?)
The possibilities are endless! 😀
Hi Sam I did experiment with my Hornby 0-4-0 tank engine I put a Bachmann motor I'm my Hornby 0-4-0 and I have to say it worked
Great Sam, just love your ingenuity
2 Questions:
1. Could you try and experiment with fitting the cheap, Hornby style £2 motors in a Bachmann loco?
2. Does this mod work on Bachmann Thomas models. I have no experience with their mechanisms but I know they fail a lot.
hi sam. i missed watching your review about the new rebuilt hush hush on the day. a great model for the price you paid for it. but i intend to stick to my guns and not buy models with out of this world prices. true i am missing out on new models. another great fix it cheap video... no whirring buzzing or squeaky noises ... would be a great fix even for new bachmann models which lack the umph in torque.
A good project Sam, did you do a torque test with the new motors for coaches on straight & level track ? it would be interesting to find out .
There used to be a motor called a Romford Bulldog, which was a 5 pole drop in replacement for the X.03/4. If only they were still available, and something similar for Bachmann models too of course.
Apologies if thyis had already been pointed out, but coreless motors should not cog due to their internal design. On your Patriot, I thought the worm was running well out of true; if you could re-use the Bachmann worm by sleeving the motor shaft, I would think you would have a winner. A ll very interesting and impressive. Thank you.
i wonder if the little n20 geared motors would be any good for moving the gear train on one of these locomotives?
the n20 motors are used quite a lot in small robots and has great starting torque even with the faster motor and the gears are metal so they won't wear out as fast as the plastic gears
thats the differance between a model mechanic and a model engineer engineer makes its so the object works the mechanic just fits bits you buy from stock shops well done sam for this 1
Hi Sam in helpfull response to those who have requested adapters for X04 type motors replacements can be found in rummage boxes at swapmeets and a full refurb by Scalespeed who do a very good job.On the Bachman motor issue I have remotored several non split chassis locos with the appropriate Mashima 16xx series motors resulting in vastly improved performance only the removal of the original worm proving difficult but worthwhile.
Maybe print the mount a bit thicker than needed and then sand it down so you can get a perfect gear mesh (which may vary engine to engine)? Also, my (ebay purchased) non-DCC Bachmann steam loco had a Mabuchi FK-130SH motor in it, which can be found easily and very cheap. I just ordered one to replace the one that burned out. Hopefully the brass worm gear will come off (it is larger, 12 mm diam, 10 mm long and 2 mm shaft)
Out of curiousity, would it be possible with this one to add a fly-wheel?
I also have small Mabuchi 3 pole motors from toys, circa 1968. Run on 3vdc. Plastic end caps and stamped -H- frame housing.
Sam, this is an excellent fix, well done! - Especially with your motor adapter and because you gave a source for the worm gears and even the screws needed! 😃
The only potential downside I could see is the longevity of the motor, particularly since it is completely enclosed and covered by the adapter so there is no chance of cooling. But then that design may not need any... only time and lots of usage will tell. ⏳
Great job ressurating great old locos.
I was just wondering if you could add a flywheel to the other end of the shaft. Maybe resin some washers together or file down a worm gear to give you a central core to affix washers to.
You need inertial mass anywhere on the gear train to improve performance. These motors are so low torque a flywheel would not be effective. It would be better to add more mass to a downstream larger gear.
Very ingenious Sam , well done .
I had almost given up watching your channel this is one of your better videos.
Well thanks for sticking around David!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Did you compare the pulling power of the Bachmann 3 pole and those coreless motors?
I've got a couple of old Bachmanns that struggle to pull more than 4 coaches. Maybe they are on the way out already.
I'll be getting a few motors regardless. Thanks for the info and the basic adapter.👍
Just ordered my Model Train Enthusiast shirt...super stoked to get it and represent here in New Hampshire!
Great tutorial to resurrect dead Bach. locos. Some 'Master' here calls you 'our Robin Hood' and I join his comment ! Thanks for sharing this interesting video Sam.
Adding a small disc capacitor across batt terminals? Is that possible for coreless dc motor?
Is the gearing ratio the same before an after? It may be possible to change the worm ratio to slow the loco down.
Hey Sam, you’ve said in some of your reviews of more expensive models that the gearing is wrong and they run too fast (some of this years Bachman models come to mind). Could you 3D print new gears to “fix” these models (of course they shouldn’t need to be fixed with the price being charged!).
Perhaps an entire motor support and gearbox if going this far? ;-)
Bachmann management meeting Monday morning..."The assassins failed again?" LOL
i replaced the n gauge original motors by coreless 7 mm diameter motors in dapol steam locos.it is an easy job because the motors are in the tender.no need to dismantle the loco.result:best quiet performance and even better enough space left to install a zimo sound decoder + sugar cube speaker.now i have the amazing reality operating fun.
That's really good Sam, Did you get my feed back regarding the re-built Hush Hush
Great work Sam, but for those without a 3D printer, would you object if I got some printed and put them on eBay?
Hi Sam not totally related to this video but model train motor maintenance in general, what's the lubricant you use on plastic gears?
I know you don't like 3 poll motors, can your replace them with a 5 poll or better in your mind and add flywheels??
Great Video (As Usual), a Question - Where did you get the Motors? I found a few on Ebay but they are 3.4V and the !2v ones are 15 Quid A Pop
Great video as always Sam. Would I be right in saying that most ( if not all?) Second hand models can be repaired? Saw a Scotsman on ebay 2 weeks ago that sold for £41 I think. If it didn't run great could it be fixed do you think? Aside from a knackered motor what else can wear out?
Hi Tony I don't profess to know a lot about repairing model trains, my thing is more classic cars and model boats, but I am interested in model trains. I would imagine a model would have to be really bad for it not to be repairable, it might take a bit of ingenuity but I don't see why any model shouldn't be repairable.
Most of them can be fixed. That is actually what I do to save money, just buy a broken engine and then fix it. Several things can cause an engine to run badly, at best the motor might need a service, gears might need some oil. At worst the motor might be dying or you might get an engine with a stripped or cracked gear.
Thanks for your replies. How would I establish which motor my train has and which one to buy off ebay say? If that's what I thought it needed.
@@Tonyr2 Depends. I would try and find an exploded view and then find the exact manufacturer part based off of the diagram.
If you want to replace the motor with a cheap ebay motor, it's a bit of a gamble tbh, just find one that appears to be the same thing and hope it fits. Typically I just cough up the money for the official part that I know will fit.
@@Tonyr2 Sorry can't help you with that unfortunately
I wonder if it would be possible to make an adapter to fit different gearing to help with slow running as in many small locos they run too fast and have poor crawl performance.
What about a replacement xo4 and x03 for old Hornby? Can you make one of those?
Thanks Sam. You are making some very interesting videos with your 3D printing and painting experiments. Of course, your loco and trainset reviews are also great. I have N scale, but I am thinking of trying the Hornby HM6000 bluetooth controller which seems very interesting. I believe it should work with my N scale which is a 12V DC system. I will let you know. Cheers from Canada :-)
I can't wait to try this because I have 3bold engine a pannier, b12 and n2 which all kinda short circuited my layout so I hope I can get this to work
Well the B12 and N2 aren’t Bachmann locos - unfortunately this will only work with certain Bachmann steamers... but you could use same the idea for almost anything!
Ah well thank you for the heads up
It looks as if it should be possible to create the new motor cradle so that it fits inside the bachmann cradle without snipping. Perhaps you could try this when you make the height adjustment?
Where did you purchase the small coreless motor from? The cheapest I have found costs approximately £15 including postage. Thanks for the video.
I would not be tempted to rush off and make this conversion until I'd seen it pull a train for several minutes. The current it will need to pull under load is much higher than a light loco and the subsequent heat might fry it.
Hey sam great solution
Ive got a question if i have a point on my layout lets say its a sidding
How would i put a loco in the siding and not have it move when i turn up the power for the loco on the mainline
DC btw not DCC
Keep up the great work -TC5
With the remaining shaft could you not produce a flywheel to aid dead spots of track?
Best show on the internet. If you can find a 5 pole motor, that should solve the croul problem.
haha thanks so much! The trouble is space - the original motors are more or less an exact fit into a Bachmann body... and those motors are tall and thin... so picking something tiny increases compatibility across different models!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hey Sam just wanted to know where to get your diagram for the motor mount I didn’t see it you said I saw your video and you said put the link down but it just shows where how you do it and what you do he didn’t show like the description so do you mind sending it to me please
Thanks for the vid, I've ordered a motor but I can't find the worm drive to take a 1mm shaft (the ones on eBay are for 2mm shaft). Do you have a link for these?
Decent bit of work there Sam seems to work great, I must say though the only bachmann motor I have had to replace is the virgin voyager and when I bought the motor I got 2 of them for a decent price, I have never had to change a bachmann steam locomotive motor.
Thanks for sharing David - that's very good news - I don't wish motor replacements on anyone, lol! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Since you have both shafts, is it possible to add a flywheel? You might find one on Aliexpress. Also, did you not need to put the capacitor back in the line from the old motor?
Yeah absolutely you could - they'd have to be quite narrow though is all!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
the shaft protruding at the back end is a great place for a flywheel
Awesome video today Sam love the idea you should try and fix some of your Bachmann Thomas locomotives with burnt out motors and do a video on that
Thanks James! Though some of the Thomas models do use these motors, they're mounted quite differently... but sure, some kind of adapter could probably be made for those too! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The crawl was deff worse as you said but it’s been my understanding that coreless motors work better on DCC than on DC. Prob wrong as only been back to this hobby for a little over a year now. Great video though. Second hand Bachmann locos just got a whole lot better value in my eyes.
Great work Sam!
There is also a Mabuchi FT-010SA-07300 3 Pole 1.5MM drive shaft on eBay that looks very similar to the Bachmann version.
Hi Sam, have you ever considered 3D printing an adapter enclosure for a Hornby Type 7 motor to replace an X0-3 / X0-4 motor?
I wouldn’t want to use a type 7 motor - they’re very poor quality. That’s a great idea though - would be great to design an adapter for a better motor!
Am I right in assuming that model locos generally run too fast for their scaled speed? If so, and if you could report the maximum speeds in your reviews, then maybe manufacturers would provide higher gearing and therefore better low speed performance.
You could fit a flywheel on the unused portion of the motor shaft if the loco body has room. It may improve that motor somewhat
So Sam's rebuilds of locomotives (well model locos anyways).
I am very glad that such solutions are presented for community i would suggest (in order to both dodge any copyright issues and to advertise your channel to call it something like Sam'sTrains replacement model H series?).
But yeah right to repair at its best,, proprietary engine holders can not hold back a man with 3d printer .)
I'm glad you were able to devise a motor replacement for Bachmann steam locos. Could you possibly make a motor mounting for diesel loco models?