Growing up here on the Rez, my father was always stoic. He never told any ov us kids He loved us but he always showed with his actions. I'm a father now and carry those habits yet I always remind my daughter how much I Love Her. Take care out there troops, raise your children right and give them hope for a better world.
The strange thing about Thomas' speech is that is really answers no questions. It only clarifies the question for us, and leaves us to find the answer - with only the homesickness of the heart to guide us.
Many times you already know the answer to the question(s) from deep within...as a Native, ironic my mother would tell me if you pay attention you’ll see signs that show you. I never fully understood what she meant, only until the time of her passing. It is only now, like Thomas’s revelation, that I think & wonder if those “signs” she spoke of were actually from relatives trying to guide us through life.
That right there is a true wise man for truly not knowing that answer it's up to us to forgive our fathers I forgive mine he's in the hospital with a heart aneurysm and they just found cancer behind his heart he might not make it but at least I can live with the closure of knowing I forgave him and I know he regrets what he did even though he was physically abusive and over zealous with the belt I love and forgive him that's what i choose and its the right choice
My uncle never forgive his father for mistreating him and making more troubles in the family. My uncle tried to help him. But his father never listens. After he died, my uncle took the father's ashes and dump it to the sea. He forgive him and he will not get the mistakes as he did
@@weirdpotat5004 forgiveness can come from many places....but most of them come from a place of understanding. Sometimes, the understanding never yields forgiveness - some sons and daughters can never forgive....some humans can never forgive. But, usually, when you understand the life of your parent...fully...you may come to understand them...why they were who they were.....and this may yield forgiveness for things that were out of their control. Sometimes...but not always. For instance....horrible fathers tend to beget...horrible fathers. Abuse breeds abuse...in a cycle without end. The remorseless abusers out there are usually sociopaths....but no sociopath was ever spawned out of thin air. Charles Manson even had a fucked up childhood and parentage.....understanding the psychology....the limits of the human brain, and MOST importantlY: how it copes or crumbles early on....will help you empathize or sympathize with another human, maybe your own parents....in time. It's hard, and no one is suggesting your parents NEED forgiving.
This scene is what made the film a classic. No matter what race you are you can relate to Victor and the relationship he had with his father. A lot of us have bad relationships with our Dads, but at the end of the day we still love our fathers.
I am more related to Victor because I have a bad relationship with my dad. He likes to take his problems on me and keep telling "you're nothing but a fucking kid" kinda thing while he doesn't realize how much I have changed and now going to university for a film major. The way he treated me offends me but I never yell back at him. Yet there are time I am more afraid of myself when I look myself in the mirror (since sometimes I can be a bit of a hothead).
This makes me cry every time I watch this scene. My father was never there, he basically disowned me by pretending I am not his son. This made me want to reconnect with him, and only lead me to a dead-end wall. Wish I could forgive him, wish he could forgive me. Wish we could be father and son again...
I saw this film back in high school after I heard it won an award at Sundance. It reflected my emotions toward my much absent father so much that it instantly replaced Evil Dead 2 as my favorite movie (again...still in high school). About 4 years later my university held a special screening of Smoke Signals at the big auditorium on campus and after the film the actor who plays Thomas Builds-the-Fire walked up on stage and I was choking up so hard. Evan Adams told a story about how after the film he became a doctor in Canada (very impressive) and one day he walked into the delivery room and this lady was heavy into labor, gripping the bed tight, sweating heavy, hollering and doing her best to manage the pain and then she saw her doctor and grabbed him really hard and said, "THOMAS!?!? Is that you? Thomas Builds-the-Fire is delivering my baby!?!?" The reason I am posting this today is that my father was discovered to have died in his home from a sudden massive heart attack and my emotional journey with him just got cut short. In fact, he was laying dead for a few days and due to that he cannot have an open casket funeral and the whole arrangement has to be hastily planned while I simultaneously try to process my feelings. The last 15 years he had made some efforts here and there to get involved with my brother and I, but he suffered from a depression he refused to ever get treated and in the last two years his efforts with us really receded. He called me up randomly a couple weeks ago and we talked for about an hour and a half and before that phone call it had been about a month since I had seen him in person and before that it had been 3 months since I got a phone call from him. He had custody of us every other week growing up; not because he always wanted us, but because he lived with my grandparents and THEY wanted to see us. Many times he was there to pick us up, take us to his house and then he would proceed to set us in front of some cartoons and watch them with us while he drank beers and pass out. Whatever he did with us to keep us occupied involved as little participation as possible from him, and also beer. So yeah, thanks for reading this big-ass therapy comment and now I get to understand what decisions Victor has to make after throwing his father's ashes into the river. I think I will be able to forgive my father and focus on the good memories (there were plenty) because he never caused trauma in my life -- he was just a big time let down compared to what he could have been.
You are not alone with these feelings............. the sadness of what could have been was in fact really so very close, yet was destined to never happen. We the living now must do all we have in our power to do, to change, to grow, to love those we care for the most just a bit better tomorrow than we did today and hopefully be forgiven for our shortcomings.
I always thought I would never forgive my father for his rages. As he grew older and weaker I forgot but didn't forgive. When he was injured in a car accident and lay silent, for six months, dying, I came to a place of peace sitting by the bed, holding his hand. Eventually I saw his life, his challenges coming to a foreign country at 14, making a life on his own and his hopes and fears and I forgave.
@@centerfold8I read somewhere that forgiveness is letting go, letting go of the anger, the fear, the resentment, refusing to relive in memory all the bad memories. My father was an alcoholic, sometimes violent and abusive, always withdrawn and moody. I joined Al-Anon, the organization for families and friends of alcoholics, and I changed and grew, I hope, into the person I was meant to be. I often think of a quote by Leon Bloy: “There are places in the heart that do not yet exist; suffering has to enter in for them to come to be.”
I know it's so sentimental, but this film kills me. I start crying like a baby every time I see it. At 20, when I first saw it. Many years in between...and now, at nearly 40. And, my God, Ulali are amazing!
How do we forgive our Fathers? Maybe in a dream Do we forgive our Fathers for leaving us too often or forever when we were little? Maybe for scaring us with unexpected rage or making us nervous because there never seemed to be any rage there at all. Do we forgive our Fathers for marrying or not marrying our Mothers? For Divorcing or not divorcing our Mothers? And shall we forgive them for their excesses of warmth or coldness? Shall we forgive them for pushing or leaning for shutting doors for speaking through walls or never speaking or never being silent? Do we forgive our Fathers in our age or in theirs or their deaths saying it to them or not saying it? If we forgive our Fathers what is left?
+Devin Wixon The "what is left part" has always perplexed me a bit. It's as if letting go of that anger is something that he's afraid to do. What is left? Freedom from those feelings of anger and resentment.
Sometimes all you have of your father is the anger. If you let go then nothing is left and that is a big hole. I think Thomas is saying it's scary and there's no easy answer which is the most wisdom I've heard in such a short bit in my almost 60 years.
I just went home and watched this with my dad... we teared up and there was love and confusion and hurt became smaller praise be to our poets and artists creator bless us all
GAWD! I get the chills when the music is climaxing and he is on the bridge with the sun behind him. CHILLS! Amazing shot and footage, and the words are powerful... Love love love this film.
The wisdom and universal truths presented in this movie are so powerful that it doesn't matter if you're a Native American, White American, Black American, European, African, Asian,....whatever you can feel the pain, anger, and the hope of human existence. The relationship of father and son is a metaphor for the relationships between all men and women in the world. Only in forgiveness can we let old wounds heal and prevent the same tragedies of ignorance,and misunderstanding from happening again
So true. Thank you for this, Marcus. Beautifully said. I am a Native American Cherokee and activist for Native American rights for 30 years, and I am an unemployed poet and writer. I love how you worded it...so beautifully, and I will carry your words with me and the sentiments in my heart. I actually just forgave my father for being an alcoholic and horrific abuse after 46 years, and I feel very free today. Lots of pain that got passed down through DNA. Thanks for your words, heart words. Mitakuye Oyasin (meaning "All My Relatives") - Rebekah
one of the few things my dad ever told me was; "son, if your going to do something, make sure you do it to the best of YOUR ability. Don't worry about what others think of what you've done, what you've done was YOUR doing, not theirs." so when i hear that "i know you", you should know that what i've done was and alwasy will be to the best of my doing, never less. another persons thought of me is theirs and i cannot change that, i won't change that. i can only show myself that i know what i am capable of. and if others see it, remember it.
Just want to shout a big thank you from New Zealand for all the heartfelt special messages on here from people big enough to admit they are in touch with their inner self. Tino pai te mahi ehoa (excellent work friends). I saw this movie while living in Canada in '99, very very special, and am always telling people about it. After dealing with some of my own inner demons, I was back in Canada in 08, and did a road trip to go to the Spokane Falls, because I wanted to stand on the bridge and feel the power. Funny thing was, I did it at the end of summer, so the thundering water was alas but a trickle.... I was pissed off but at the same time could see the funny side, which in itself was a lesson. Ma te wa whenua. Go well people.
ulali- wah jhi le yihm. Listen to them sing if you get a chance, it is part of the background music. What a beautiful primal yell of grief Adam Beach did. Unforgettable scene.
The only time I've ever had to suppress openly sobbing in public was because of this poem at the end of Smoke Signals. It pierced right through my heart and soul.
I believe that in most cases our fathers do the best job that they can, considering what they were taught and how they grew up. My dad had a hellish upbringing and mine was no joy, but he grew and improved upon what he was taught and knew. I can only hope that the same will be said about me.
BEAUTIFUL WORDS! I, myself came into being without that part of parents… I have considered myself lucky that I was born into the 60s subculture of extreme poverty. Lucky that my mom, I never knew was so poor not to abort me… I later convinced myself and believe that GOD ALMIGHTY is my TRUE FATHER! Since my AWAKENING of this FACT I was guided to a ABSOLUTE SUCCESS LIFE! I’am BLESSED with UNCEASING RICHEST DAILY! I have two sons who are also being BLESSED UNCEASINGLY daily!
I just found out my father passed away, haven't seen him in 20 years either. This was the first thing I needed to hear and shared with my brother and sister. Thank you for helping us and our mother heal.
I am 61, my father is 85 and still drinking, still talking over me, still running from his grief over his father's abuse. Once I went home from college to find him sitting in a chair in shorts and no shirt covered in stab wounds. When I asked him what happened he said "Nothing". But, my little sister ran away from home that night at age 15. She died 3 years later of an overdose. My Dad still hasn't told anyone what happened that day. There is a part of me that feels such rage for the man. And another part of me that feels pity. He was a victim who passed his pain and trauma onto his wife and kids who passed it on to their intimates.
I searched for my biological father about 3 years ago. I guess I didn't try hard enough. About a month ago I found his obituary. I hope the family can forgive me.
I watched that movie on yt about a year ago. Unfortunately it got deleted. Loved it.In this last scene when Victor was standing on the bridge, I was like, please don't do it, please don't jump, please don't let the film end like this.
I think the point is that you are only human. You had a father and he had one before you. The hurt and pain was passed down and all of you did your best to deal with it.
How do we forgive our fathers? Maybe in a dream. Do we forgive our fathers for leaving us too often, or forever, when we were little? Maybe for scaring us with unexpected rage, or making us nervous because there never seemed to be any rage there at all? Do we forgive our fathers for marrying, or not marrying, our mothers? Or divorcing, or not divorcing, our mothers? And shall we forgive them for their excesses of warmth or coldness? Shall we forgive them for pushing, or leaning? For shutting doors or speaking through walls? For never speaking, or never being silent? Do we forgive our fathers in our age, or in theirs? Or in their deaths, saying it to them or not saying it. If we forgive our fathers, what is left?
I forgave my father for beating me with his belt and his drinking and abuse he would grab me by my leg when I would wake up he beat me with his belt my butt and back were so so sore I would watch emperor s new groove because Kuzko made me feel safe I wanted David Spade to be my father because mine was a monster and he beat me more than once i was in fear of this horrible man I have Autism so growing up was difficult I was an outcast I forgive you father his name is Chris he's still alive I love you dad I forgive you
all these hateful comments. i don't understand. this should be no cause for hate. this was beautiful. my father is navajo and it struck something in me..... thank you for posting this....
I am Lakota. I can very much understand this feeling. It's hard for me to talk about it. I am a 2006 graduate of Haskell Indian Nations University of Lawrence Ks. Adopted as a newborn by a non-Native family.
I am not Native American, neither American, but the film struck me right away. My father was always there physically - but hardly ever there emotionally; he had barely survived WWII, married the lady who became my mother - and at times (when they were fighting and things started to fly) I wished they would have divorced ... Many years later, I forgave both ... I understood that their shortcomings were in part a result of the impacts of WWII, and that there is another part, i.e. it woudl have been their responsibility to deal with those impacts in order not to pass them on or take them out on their child, on me. It's not their fault that they grew up amidst WWII - but it would have been their responsibilty to deal with the aftermath ... I watched Smoke Signals 3 times (at least) ... I forgave them - which doesn't mean the damage is undone, I hold no more grudge.
My dad passed many years ago, but its still fresh in my mind. I was in college at the time when he was on his death bed in Mexico. I ask my professor if I could take my finals the week after and he said no. I stayed and did my finals and passed but so did my dad. I feel a lot of guilt and remorse for not being there by his side. We're birthday twins so it makes it hard every year... I just hope that he can forgive me....
If mothers and fathers weren't so stressed beyond their wits to keep their kids breathing past 18, maybe we could learn to risk preparing them for a more loving world!
I don't understand why some people cannot see the beauty of a simple message in a lovely and simple, yet not so simple movie! It was created for those of us who can appreciate the messages of humanity and to even learn from the pain from the past of others. It is a MASTERPIECE!
That ending touched my soul deeply. I always come back to watch it, because it moves me so. It makes me think about my grown son, and I wonder how he feels feels about his, now dead, father. The part about forgiving your father for marrying or not marrying your mother....that's a heavy morsel to ponder. Just think about that concept, finally recognizing that your father was just a man trying to do the best he could. He is not some giant, untouchable object on a pedestal to fear and wonder at. Your father was just a guy. Making things up as he went along. Moms too. When you get to the age where you finally see your parents as fallible human beings, it's a revelation. But then you can start to forgive them,, aka maybe have some peace in your life
The last sentence in the movie was poignant. "If we forgive our fathers, what is left?" When we let go of the pain, we can also move forward in our lives.
This scene tears my heart out every time. I was able to forgive my father 30 years after his death, but I shouldn't have watched this tonight, now I can't stop crying.
Me and my Dad still had our ups and downs I'm 27 and he's almost 50 and it makes me cry everyday listening to this song wondering when we will get along
im native and i can relate so much to victor. my dad left me nd my mom when i was four. have not seen nor heard from him since then... im 16 now. but to answer the question... IF he tries to make an effort to be in my life... we will see if i can forgive him.. but for now?? no i cant
Lifelong process. For me it's been about praying and waiting for the grace needed to show mercy to honor their memory simply as parents and do my best to forget the injuries. Leave final judgement to Most Holy Trinity. Only God, our Creator, knows the whole story. The Native American warrior cry at scattering ashes to the wind while dramatic, burial seems better than littering human remains into fresh water. We all return to dust eventually...unless become fossilized.
I acknowledge his wisdom Like a library, Taken petulantly, Forthright as if attacked, Because it disrupted my volition, Me, I helped as I could Frustrating child, As I always was Good books bad books Making up my story My headaches My poison My escapes, My camouflage ability Holding on, the scream let it go, I found my resume full of endurance, Full of passion with unskilled practice, Unpined opinions Because my voice speaks Differently I'm an eyeball Full of knowledge, Reading response, I've seen Anxiety running through my body, Sudden flash of lightning, Lashing out at shadows, Longing to forget Adrenaline injection, Smoke filling my head Till I can't breath I enjoyed those calm moments, Lessons, learned quietly Working silently, Sometimes blind kindness, Sometimes screaming, from Perhaps another time, Another father working the line My footsteps leading me on Different paths, in directions Unexplored As if I was Free, in measured moments, My fragile memories My dream balance, threatening to shatter Swimming I'm always Swimming Across the ever changing ocean, I'm never lost or found, Because anything else would be to much
As a Native American "half breed:" whose father was white and whose mother was Native, the complexities are often too much to put into words. Regardless of when I watch this, and this movie has affected me for over 25 years of whenever I first watched it in my early twenties....it always strikes me so powerfully as a poet, activist, writer and person who has PTSD, anxiety and depression....
An important moment in my life. I forgave my late father after watching this film. HE passed away on my birthday. I'm Blessed with celebrating my Birth by remembering my Father, together.
why doesn't that wig that Victor is wearing get wet???? I was at Niagara Falls not too long ago and I wore my fave rave wig and it got sopping wet so I had to wear my Dolly Parton beehive wig (which you can tell is a wig) to dinner that Geddy Lee was hosting and boy did I have egg on my face...everyone knew I was wearing that wig.. Yeah. So yeah I was wondering about his wig!!!
I don’t know how me and my sperm donor’s story will end, i ended it but i don’t know if it really ended or not this story is very similar what happened with him, fled from the family and went to arizona part of the reason i hate that forsaken state
I've always been perplexed when people ask me why don't you care what people think? I've always replied, " why would I care what they think when I see no evidence that they think at all". if we worry about what others "think" we could get distracted and fail to look for the signs... that would be a terrible loss hello from Cali and the Wiyot. n.d.n (I miss you JF)
![UCF Professor Richard Quinn accuses class of cheating [Original]](/img/1.gif)
Growing up here on the Rez, my father was always stoic. He never told any ov us kids He loved us but he always showed with his actions. I'm a father now and carry those habits yet I always remind my daughter how much I Love Her. Take care out there troops, raise your children right and give them hope for a better world.
The strange thing about Thomas' speech is that is really answers no questions. It only clarifies the question for us, and leaves us to find the answer - with only the homesickness of the heart to guide us.
Dawoud Kringle that is how teachings are passed on usually my friend . It’s the beautiful thing about aboriginal culture
Exactly. We have the innate answers. I am Native American and that is how I have been taught.
Many times you already know the answer to the question(s) from deep within...as a Native, ironic my mother would tell me if you pay attention you’ll see signs that show you. I never fully understood what she meant, only until the time of her passing. It is only now, like Thomas’s revelation, that I think & wonder if those “signs” she spoke of were actually from relatives trying to guide us through life.
That right there is a true wise man for truly not knowing that answer it's up to us to forgive our fathers I forgive mine he's in the hospital with a heart aneurysm and they just found cancer behind his heart he might not make it but at least I can live with the closure of knowing I forgave him and I know he regrets what he did even though he was physically abusive and over zealous with the belt I love and forgive him that's what i choose and its the right choice
@@venomwise You chose right
i finally forgave my father after 32 years...because of this movie
boss bully boy the power of art!
@@MrSteedfast 16 years for me I hated my father and I forgave him for his abuse I forgive you daddy I forgive you
My uncle never forgive his father for mistreating him and making more troubles in the family. My uncle tried to help him. But his father never listens. After he died, my uncle took the father's ashes and dump it to the sea. He forgive him and he will not get the mistakes as he did
How do you forgive someone who never expressed any remorse?
@@weirdpotat5004 forgiveness can come from many places....but most of them come from a place of understanding. Sometimes, the understanding never yields forgiveness - some sons and daughters can never forgive....some humans can never forgive. But, usually, when you understand the life of your parent...fully...you may come to understand them...why they were who they were.....and this may yield forgiveness for things that were out of their control. Sometimes...but not always. For instance....horrible fathers tend to beget...horrible fathers. Abuse breeds abuse...in a cycle without end. The remorseless abusers out there are usually sociopaths....but no sociopath was ever spawned out of thin air. Charles Manson even had a fucked up childhood and parentage.....understanding the psychology....the limits of the human brain, and MOST importantlY: how it copes or crumbles early on....will help you empathize or sympathize with another human, maybe your own parents....in time. It's hard, and no one is suggesting your parents NEED forgiving.
This scene is what made the film a classic. No matter what race you are you can relate to Victor and the relationship he had with his father. A lot of us have bad relationships with our Dads, but at the end of the day we still love our fathers.
In a way it helped me with fatherhood. My biggest takeaway is sobriety and selflessness.
I am more related to Victor because I have a bad relationship with my dad. He likes to take his problems on me and keep telling "you're nothing but a fucking kid" kinda thing while he doesn't realize how much I have changed and now going to university for a film major. The way he treated me offends me but I never yell back at him. Yet there are time I am more afraid of myself when I look myself in the mirror (since sometimes I can be a bit of a hothead).
@@a.jthomas6132 You do not deserve that abuse. I hope that one day you can give yourself the life you deserve.
Ten years later, this is still so true.
@@lingeringquestions519 Hi dear sister!
This makes me cry every time I watch this scene. My father was never there, he basically disowned me by pretending I am not his son. This made me want to reconnect with him, and only lead me to a dead-end wall. Wish I could forgive him, wish he could forgive me. Wish we could be father and son again...
This scene is so powerful.
Peyton Anthony Agreed, Peyton 🤔
Fuck yeah it is I'm crying at a diner watching it
@@joshrhiner2133 Tell me about it I just broke down on the school bus
I saw this film back in high school after I heard it won an award at Sundance. It reflected my emotions toward my much absent father so much that it instantly replaced Evil Dead 2 as my favorite movie (again...still in high school). About 4 years later my university held a special screening of Smoke Signals at the big auditorium on campus and after the film the actor who plays Thomas Builds-the-Fire walked up on stage and I was choking up so hard. Evan Adams told a story about how after the film he became a doctor in Canada (very impressive) and one day he walked into the delivery room and this lady was heavy into labor, gripping the bed tight, sweating heavy, hollering and doing her best to manage the pain and then she saw her doctor and grabbed him really hard and said, "THOMAS!?!? Is that you? Thomas Builds-the-Fire is delivering my baby!?!?"
The reason I am posting this today is that my father was discovered to have died in his home from a sudden massive heart attack and my emotional journey with him just got cut short. In fact, he was laying dead for a few days and due to that he cannot have an open casket funeral and the whole arrangement has to be hastily planned while I simultaneously try to process my feelings. The last 15 years he had made some efforts here and there to get involved with my brother and I, but he suffered from a depression he refused to ever get treated and in the last two years his efforts with us really receded. He called me up randomly a couple weeks ago and we talked for about an hour and a half and before that phone call it had been about a month since I had seen him in person and before that it had been 3 months since I got a phone call from him. He had custody of us every other week growing up; not because he always wanted us, but because he lived with my grandparents and THEY wanted to see us. Many times he was there to pick us up, take us to his house and then he would proceed to set us in front of some cartoons and watch them with us while he drank beers and pass out. Whatever he did with us to keep us occupied involved as little participation as possible from him, and also beer.
So yeah, thanks for reading this big-ass therapy comment and now I get to understand what decisions Victor has to make after throwing his father's ashes into the river. I think I will be able to forgive my father and focus on the good memories (there were plenty) because he never caused trauma in my life -- he was just a big time let down compared to what he could have been.
Perhaps now he spends the most time with you... to comfort. Teach and seek forgiveness 😪
You are not alone with these feelings............. the sadness of what could have been was in fact really so very close, yet was destined to never happen. We the living now must do all we have in our power to do, to change, to grow, to love those we care for the most just a bit better tomorrow than we did today and hopefully be forgiven for our shortcomings.
I always thought I would never forgive my father for his rages. As he grew older and weaker I forgot but didn't forgive. When he was injured in a car accident and lay silent, for six months, dying, I came to a place of peace sitting by the bed, holding his hand. Eventually I saw his life, his challenges coming to a foreign country at 14, making a life on his own and his hopes and fears and I forgave.
I hope I can get there. My father came from a foreign country, too.
Hoz Holla yeah forgetting isn’t forgiving. It’s still potentially dangerous
@@centerfold8I read somewhere that forgiveness is letting go, letting go of the anger, the fear, the resentment, refusing to relive in memory all the bad memories. My father was an alcoholic, sometimes violent and abusive, always withdrawn and moody. I joined Al-Anon, the organization for families and friends of alcoholics, and I changed and grew, I hope, into the person I was meant to be. I often think of a quote by Leon Bloy: “There are places in the heart that do not yet exist; suffering has to enter in for them to come to be.”
I know it's so sentimental, but this film kills me. I start crying like a baby every time I see it. At 20, when I first saw it. Many years in between...and now, at nearly 40. And, my God, Ulali are amazing!
Same. I always cry at this scene and just cried by watching the clip. The imagery of the water is so beautiful.
I just cried on the school bus. It truly is a beautiful and sentimental scene.
Forgiveness is one of the hardest things to do; I forgive my father.
How do we forgive our Fathers?
Maybe in a dream
Do we forgive our Fathers for leaving us too often or forever
when we were little?
Maybe for scaring us with unexpected rage
or making us nervous
because there never seemed to be any rage there at all.
Do we forgive our Fathers for marrying or not marrying our Mothers?
For Divorcing or not divorcing our Mothers?
And shall we forgive them for their excesses of warmth or coldness?
Shall we forgive them for pushing or leaning
for shutting doors
for speaking through walls
or never speaking
or never being silent?
Do we forgive our Fathers in our age or in theirs
or their deaths
saying it to them or not saying it?
If we forgive our Fathers what is left?
+Devin Wixon The "what is left part" has always perplexed me a bit. It's as if letting go of that anger is something that he's afraid to do.
What is left? Freedom from those feelings of anger and resentment.
"What is left?" He hasn't forgiven his father...yet.
Sometimes all you have of your father is the anger. If you let go then nothing is left and that is a big hole. I think Thomas is saying it's scary and there's no easy answer which is the most wisdom I've heard in such a short bit in my almost 60 years.
Cary Huether Well said.
"Oh, dear dad, can you see me now?
I am myself, like you, somehow."
Devin Wixon thank you
I'm posting this on father's day on Facebook. Certain people need to see it.
DEAF AS A POST AND NO SUBITITLES AND I WATCH THIS ONCE A MONTH JUST BECAUSE
Even Adam's lost in the barren, great movie
I just went home and watched this with my dad... we teared up and there was love and confusion and hurt became smaller praise be to our poets and artists creator bless us all
GAWD! I get the chills when the music is climaxing and he is on the bridge with the sun behind him. CHILLS! Amazing shot and footage, and the words are powerful... Love love love this film.
The wisdom and universal truths presented in this movie are so powerful that it doesn't matter if you're a Native American, White American, Black American, European, African, Asian,....whatever you can feel the pain, anger, and the hope of human existence. The relationship of father and son is a metaphor for the relationships between all men and women in the world. Only in forgiveness can we let old wounds heal and prevent the same tragedies of ignorance,and misunderstanding from happening again
So true. Thank you for this, Marcus. Beautifully said. I am a Native American Cherokee and activist for Native American rights for 30 years, and I am an unemployed poet and writer. I love how you worded it...so beautifully, and I will carry your words with me and the sentiments in my heart. I actually just forgave my father for being an alcoholic and horrific abuse after 46 years, and I feel very free today. Lots of pain that got passed down through DNA. Thanks for your words, heart words. Mitakuye Oyasin (meaning "All My Relatives") - Rebekah
i know this is 7 years later, but you my friend just wrote my film appreciation discussion post for me. I appreciate you marcus.
100%
the song the scream the chant cry it brings me too my knees and reminds me i need to let the pain go and i have alot of soul searching left to do
one of the few things my dad ever told me was; "son, if your going to do something, make sure you do it to the best of YOUR ability. Don't worry about what others think of what you've done, what you've done was YOUR doing, not theirs." so when i hear that "i know you", you should know that what i've done was and alwasy will be to the best of my doing, never less. another persons thought of me is theirs and i cannot change that, i won't change that. i can only show myself that i know what i am capable of. and if others see it, remember it.
For shuttin' doors; for speakin' through walls, or never speakin'... or never being silent.....
It's just one of those days. I had to find this and hear it again.
Just want to shout a big thank you from New Zealand for all the heartfelt special messages on here from people big enough to admit they are in touch with their inner self. Tino pai te mahi ehoa (excellent work friends). I saw this movie while living in Canada in '99, very very special, and am always telling people about it. After dealing with some of my own inner demons, I was back in Canada in 08, and did a road trip to go to the Spokane Falls, because I wanted to stand on the bridge and feel the power. Funny thing was, I did it at the end of summer, so the thundering water was alas but a trickle.... I was pissed off but at the same time could see the funny side, which in itself was a lesson. Ma te wa whenua. Go well people.
OMG!! Still makes tears stream down my face. Thank you to the creators of this movie for helping me begin the process of forgiving my father.
tell me what happened....tell me what's going to happen..
Scott Lajala yes!!!!
ulali- wah jhi le yihm. Listen to them sing if you get a chance, it is part of the background music. What a beautiful primal yell of grief Adam Beach did. Unforgettable scene.
im native on my fathers side and didnt meet him till i was 16 and this really speaks to me you know
The only time I've ever had to suppress openly sobbing in public was because of this poem at the end of Smoke Signals. It pierced right through my heart and soul.
I believe that in most cases our fathers do the best job that they can, considering what they were taught and how they grew up. My dad had a hellish upbringing and mine was no joy, but he grew and improved upon what he was taught and knew. I can only hope that the same will be said about me.
This film taught me so much. I loved this incredible ending, so full of wisdom and emotion. I don't know how anyone can find fault with this!
I watched this 2 weeks before my dad died. We were not speaking at the time. This hit deep
BEAUTIFUL WORDS! I, myself came into being without that part of parents…
I have considered myself lucky that I was born into the 60s subculture of extreme poverty. Lucky that my mom, I never knew was so poor not to abort me…
I later convinced myself and believe that GOD ALMIGHTY is my TRUE FATHER! Since my AWAKENING of this FACT I was guided to a ABSOLUTE SUCCESS LIFE! I’am BLESSED with UNCEASING RICHEST DAILY!
I have two sons who are also being BLESSED UNCEASINGLY daily!
How powerful and beautiful. Ashes to the raging river, as it should be.
Simply one of the best movies ever.
I just found out my father passed away, haven't seen him in 20 years either. This was the first thing I needed to hear and shared with my brother and sister. Thank you for helping us and our mother heal.
I am 61, my father is 85 and still drinking, still talking over me, still running from his grief over his father's abuse. Once I went home from college to find him sitting in a chair in shorts and no shirt covered in stab wounds. When I asked him what happened he said "Nothing". But, my little sister ran away from home that night at age 15. She died 3 years later of an overdose. My Dad still hasn't told anyone what happened that day. There is a part of me that feels such rage for the man. And another part of me that feels pity. He was a victim who passed his pain and trauma onto his wife and kids who passed it on to their intimates.
There is no other way, but to forgive.....for everything - so we can be free...
Wonderful movie!
Such a stunning little film. I had forgotten just how good this is.
Love this movie! Just watched it for probably the 20th time tonight with friends. It's great to show it to people who have never seen it before :)
I searched for my biological father about 3 years ago. I guess I didn't try hard enough. About a month ago I found his obituary. I hope the family can forgive me.
Forgive yourself and your father
To this day, I see it for the 1st time as I saw when I was young
I watched that movie on yt about a year ago. Unfortunately it got deleted. Loved it.In this last scene when Victor was standing on the bridge, I was like, please don't do it, please don't jump, please don't let the film end like this.
This will never fail to make me bawl my eyes out.
I understand Thomas Builds-the-Fire. I wish I didn't. *cries*
May God grant healing for broken ties with fathers
Amen and Amen 🙏
This is by far the most powerful ending to any movie I have seen!
I'ma father who needs forgiveness from my child... It hurts
May the great spirit answer your call to your children
I think the point is that you are only human. You had a father and he had one before you. The hurt and pain was passed down and all of you did your best to deal with it.
How do we forgive our fathers? Maybe in a dream. Do we forgive our fathers for leaving us too often, or forever, when we were little? Maybe for scaring us with unexpected rage, or making us nervous because there never seemed to be any rage there at all? Do we forgive our fathers for marrying, or not marrying, our mothers? Or divorcing, or not divorcing, our mothers? And shall we forgive them for their excesses of warmth or coldness? Shall we forgive them for pushing, or leaning? For shutting doors or speaking through walls? For never speaking, or never being silent? Do we forgive our fathers in our age, or in theirs? Or in their deaths, saying it to them or not saying it. If we forgive our fathers, what is left?
I forgave my father for beating me with his belt and his drinking and abuse he would grab me by my leg when I would wake up he beat me with his belt my butt and back were so so sore I would watch emperor s new groove because Kuzko made me feel safe I wanted David Spade to be my father because mine was a monster and he beat me more than once i was in fear of this horrible man I have Autism so growing up was difficult I was an outcast I forgive you father his name is Chris he's still alive I love you dad I forgive you
This movie is hard to watch for me cuss it reminds me of my grandpa. How i miss him so much he was my best friend.
all these hateful comments. i don't understand. this should be no cause for hate. this was beautiful. my father is navajo and it struck something in me..... thank you for posting this....
I just lost my mother..we are northern Cheyenne..and please we repect this comment..😔
I am Lakota. I can very much understand this feeling. It's hard for me to talk about it. I am a 2006 graduate of Haskell Indian Nations University of Lawrence Ks. Adopted as a newborn by a non-Native family.
I am not Native American, neither American, but the film struck me right away. My father was always there physically - but hardly ever there emotionally; he had barely survived WWII, married the lady who became my mother - and at times (when they were fighting and things started to fly) I wished they would have divorced ... Many years later, I forgave both ... I understood that their shortcomings were in part a result of the impacts of WWII, and that there is another part, i.e. it woudl have been their responsibility to deal with those impacts in order not to pass them on or take them out on their child, on me. It's not their fault that they grew up amidst WWII - but it would have been their responsibilty to deal with the aftermath ... I watched Smoke Signals 3 times (at least) ... I forgave them - which doesn't mean the damage is undone, I hold no more grudge.
What a strong sense of catharsis in the end
My dad passed many years ago, but its still fresh in my mind. I was in college at the time when he was on his death bed in Mexico. I ask my professor if I could take my finals the week after and he said no. I stayed and did my finals and passed but so did my dad. I feel a lot of guilt and remorse for not being there by his side. We're birthday twins so it makes it hard every year... I just hope that he can forgive me....
Your story really touched me
If mothers and fathers weren't so stressed beyond their wits to keep their kids breathing past 18, maybe we could learn to risk preparing them for a more loving world!
Still a Powerful film, standing the test of time. "To Forgive Our Fathers" - mighty powerful poem. 👍👍
Such a great movie! A real classic!
It would be so cool if this was available as a "song" on itunes!!!
I own it and I just wrote it down so I will all ways have it it means a lot
Wah Jhi Le Yihm is the song
I don't understand why some people cannot see the beauty of a simple message in a lovely and simple, yet not so simple movie! It was created for those of us who can appreciate the messages of humanity and to even learn from the pain from the past of others. It is a MASTERPIECE!
The scene on the Bridge was filmed in "Riverfront Park" in Spokane WA.
That ending touched my soul deeply. I always come back to watch it, because it moves me so. It makes me think about my grown son, and I wonder how he feels feels about his, now dead, father. The part about forgiving your father for marrying or not marrying your mother....that's a heavy morsel to ponder. Just think about that concept, finally recognizing that your father was just a man trying to do the best he could. He is not some giant, untouchable object on a pedestal to fear and wonder at. Your father was just a guy. Making things up as he went along. Moms too. When you get to the age where you finally see your parents as fallible human beings, it's a revelation. But then you can start to forgive them,, aka maybe have some peace in your life
The last sentence in the movie was poignant. "If we forgive our fathers, what is left?" When we let go of the pain, we can also move forward in our lives.
I love that prophecy with its thought provoking questions. Great scene.
The end is so sad my father left me when I was 5months
This scene tears my heart out every time. I was able to forgive my father 30 years after his death, but I shouldn't have watched this tonight, now I can't stop crying.
Chris Eyre joked that at the end of the poem, when it asks what is left, the answer is 'our moms.'
Both my parents died ten years apart then I asked myself what is left but loneliness I learned that
Never being silent
ONE OF MY ALL TIME FAVORITE FILMs
A BEAUTIFUL MASTERPIECE!
FOR GIVE
I forgave mine. He asked me to.....right before my sisters and stepmom gave him a lethal dose of morphine.
I love you Dad ❤️☮️
so beautiful and poetic...!!
“Tell me what happened Thomas; tell me what’s going to happen”
Check out Bill Paragan, Broken Walls.
Creator Jesus is our answer friends
Take your christianity you genocidal bastards back to Europe.
Incredible last scene! Beautiful film with depth, one of my favorite! Thank you very much for sharing this!
Me and my Dad still had our ups and downs I'm 27 and he's almost 50 and it makes me cry everyday listening to this song wondering when we will get along
im native and i can relate so much to victor. my dad left me nd my mom when i was four. have not seen nor heard from him since then... im 16 now. but to answer the question... IF he tries to make an effort to be in my life... we will see if i can forgive him.. but for now?? no i cant
Lifelong process. For me it's been about praying and waiting for the grace needed to show mercy to honor their memory simply as parents and do my best to forget the injuries. Leave final judgement to Most Holy Trinity. Only God, our Creator, knows the whole story. The Native American warrior cry at scattering ashes to the wind while dramatic, burial seems better than littering human remains into fresh water. We all return to dust eventually...unless become fossilized.
I acknowledge his wisdom
Like a library,
Taken petulantly,
Forthright as if attacked,
Because it disrupted my volition,
Me,
I helped as I could
Frustrating child,
As I always was
Good books bad books
Making up my story
My headaches
My poison
My escapes,
My camouflage ability
Holding on, the scream let it go,
I found my resume full of endurance,
Full of passion with unskilled practice,
Unpined opinions
Because my voice speaks
Differently
I'm an eyeball
Full of knowledge,
Reading response, I've seen
Anxiety running through my body,
Sudden flash of lightning,
Lashing out at shadows,
Longing to forget
Adrenaline injection,
Smoke filling my head
Till I can't breath
I enjoyed those calm moments,
Lessons, learned quietly
Working silently,
Sometimes blind kindness,
Sometimes screaming, from
Perhaps another time,
Another father working the line
My footsteps leading me on
Different paths, in directions
Unexplored
As if I was
Free, in measured moments,
My fragile memories
My dream balance, threatening to shatter
Swimming
I'm always Swimming
Across the ever changing ocean,
I'm never lost or found,
Because anything else would be to much
Well is victor is going to be homeless forever?
As a Native American "half breed:" whose father was white and whose mother was Native, the complexities are often too much to put into words. Regardless of when I watch this, and this movie has affected me for over 25 years of whenever I first watched it in my early twenties....it always strikes me so powerfully as a poet, activist, writer and person who has PTSD, anxiety and depression....
Wah Jhi Le Yihm by Ulali - It's on the Smoke Signals Soundtrack
@wharghoul it's nice to know I'm not that only person who's cried over this thing. It really gets ya
An important moment in my life. I forgave my late father after watching this film. HE passed away on my birthday. I'm Blessed with celebrating my Birth by remembering my Father, together.
i forgave my father, but i will never forgive my mother.
Who wrote this. This spoke to my heart.
Hey Victor!!!!
Resentment is the same as pissing on yourself, you’re the only one who feels it.
Forgiveness is the same as, do it for yourself.
why doesn't that wig that Victor is wearing get wet???? I was at Niagara Falls not too long ago and I wore my fave rave wig and it got sopping wet so I had to wear my Dolly Parton beehive wig (which you can tell is a wig) to dinner that Geddy Lee was hosting and boy did I have egg on my face...everyone knew I was wearing that wig.. Yeah. So yeah I was wondering about his wig!!!
I remember this movie watched with my dad when I was 10 or so
I’ve wished to find the recording of the song at the end, forever! Anyone know?❤️😊
I like this scene here it get to me when I watch this scene really good movie to watch
Watching this while looking at old pictures of my dad made me cry, and I'm an ex-con.
This is some powerful shit.
I don’t know how me and my sperm donor’s story will end, i ended it but i don’t know if it really ended or not this story is very similar what happened with him, fled from the family and went to arizona part of the reason i hate that forsaken state
Thanks for posting that but I think it would have been better if you had let the music by Ulali play out.
I've always been perplexed when people ask me why don't you care what people think? I've always replied, " why would I care what they think when I see no evidence that they think at all". if we worry about what others "think" we could get distracted and fail to look for the signs... that would be a terrible loss hello from Cali and the Wiyot. n.d.n (I miss you JF)
+Barbi Rigby That's a question only you can answer.
This is so sweet. She's good he's good because of it. I need a guy like that