A QUICK to use Clamping System for CNC T-tracks
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
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With the new CNC router and its spoil board with T-tracks, I needed a new clamping system and had many very useful ideas.
Link to the 3D print files: www.thingivers...
Enjoy the video!
Nice work. You could use a different colour filament for a different lenght of a screw. In that case You could quickly visualy see all possibilities even if they are mixed in one box.
Marius: You have an amazing creative mind. Thanks for sharing your ideas!
yea the play school colours are great from seeing in a box of parts or even on a messy bench
I was thinking the same thing. Red for shortest purple for longest [in ROYGBIV order] for the handles and bases or even just the handles.
Your creative problem solving never ceases to amaze me! The cross grain, the tiny magnets to hold the washer. Great ideas all! I don't know what your plans are, but you'd kill it in mechanical engineering. A little statics, and strength of materials class and you're off to the races. Or you could kill in in the trades/maker space as well. You're funny w/o knowing you're funny. You're great at explaining your thinking, and you're edits are spot on. You could be the young-Diresta! :)
I think Marius said in some of his videos that he was a mechanical engineering student. Probably got his degree by now.
@@con-f-use I remember an episode where he said there was a lot of schoolwork. But I couldn't recall in what. Thanks.
@@con-f-use yea I remember that too
thats great ! one soloution i thought of the spoil board is to glue a 6mm mdf top to 12mm ply that way you have the best of both worlds strong ply t tracks and a surface you can flatten
So glad you are back to uploading regularly for a while. Love your videos and appreciate all the hard work you put in!
If you have problems with the MDF wearing out, you could make them stronger with some cheap aluminium flat profile. My guess is that 2-3 mm will really spread the load. You may have to recut the pieces of mdf tho...
use plastic
I would try stabilizing the MDF with epoxy. Since the wearing zones are just the borders of the tracks, a very fluid epoxy could soak into de MDF.
I hope you're planning to manufacture and sell these. These are a great idea, and I'm sure some company will snatch up your idea and start selling them.
Even just an Etsy or Shopify. Patent would probably be a waste, if you could just beat the competition to most of the demand.
I doubt the idea is novel enough.
Sure, you could be a lawyer to make it looks like it's super clever and whatnot, but it's just a glorified ground nut
T-slot head bolts are available from e.g., Rockler. They're easier to use and, since the nut (knob) is now on the top, one bolt length is (usually) all you need.
Wouldn't you have the head bumping into the part that's sticking out with diffrent workpiece heights?
@@dennisbengel11 No, the head would be down in the T-slot. It shouldn't bump anything. Look at these clamps, then pretend the nut is on the top and the bolt head is on the bottom, but too wide to just pop out of the slot. You can buy those special T-slot bolts and they're made for this purpose. Google 't slot bolt'.
I took carriage bolts, ground the sides of the head, and it slides in and out easy and the knob is on top
Dude. That's awesome. You're smart af
I'd buy those for sure.
This 3D idea it's amazing man congratulations nice work
Good video man! Two questions: with the clamp thingys, why dont you make the red part a nut and the yellow one a bolt? That way you don't need different heights, right? Am i missing something?
On the other hand, why don't you make a vacuum table?
Long bolts sticking out can interfere with the toolpath.
Couldn't you line the t-tracks with a small aluminium insert? like, make the slots a bit bigger to account for an alu insert, that way, you get (reusable) durable t-tracks inside your MDF board and you won't have to wory about the track degrading?
Great job!
Would you mind, adding your fusion360 files to the thingiverse post?
Fantastic stuff! I do enjoy your methodical approach and your ability to find solutions! Also I would use color to easily identify the length.
Could you not glue a sheet of plywood and MDF together to have plywood on the bottom and then MDF on the top which you could then flatten like the existing MDF on its own? Great video!
That's a good idea!
@@MariusHornberger Here are two, even better, options. One dead simple and one slightly more involved:
1) A plywood base with a high density fiberboard (HDF)/hardboard topper. HDF is thin, light and affordable, offering a low profile for sacrificial protection. For example, a 1/8"/3.175mm x 4'/1.2m x 8'/2.4m sheet of HDF is only $6.25 at Home Depot in the U.S. Of course, the HDF needs to be leveled before first use.
2) Apply high pressure laminate (HPL) to the underside of your MDF spoil board. It's even thinner than HDF, while being much stronger. While HPL is a bit more expensive, you could ask for scraps from any local cabinet shop. Since this the laminate is on the bottom of the spoil board, even mis-matched scraps would suffice. We're a fabrication shop and have loads of scrap pieces that we'd happily give away instead tossing in the skip.
You simply brush/roll on a contact adhesive to both surfaces, allow to tack off and apply. A J-roller is optional for this application, but recommended to ensure maximum contact between the laminate and substrate.
For option #1, the HDF topper can be refreshed several times before being completely removed from the plywood substrate in a leveling pass. Once you're down to clean plywood, you could simply glue on a new HDF topper.
For option #2, you'd refresh the MDF spoil board as usual.
Great ideas across the board Marius!
I am late to the party here, but you can use a 50/50 mix of polyurethane and a thinner and then wipe on multiple coats to the slot area on the underside and you will greatly increase its strength and durability with minimal increase in size. Great work as always.
Awesome stuff! A link to the correct T-nuts would be great
Any recommendations on the best filament to use for shop printed parts?
lit!
just finished watching, these look really useful.. those clamping speeds are insane :O nice work
What do you think about (diy) vaccum holddown tables? :)
Great engineering and top notch results as always! And such a nice young man too. Your folks must be so proud.
Do you have a link or what size T nuts and bolts you used?
To reduce wear on your flat surface you can use the trick I use for mine, I just use printing paper. It's very consistent on its thickness, so I just place a few sheets under the wood so the bit eats the paper surface instead of the flat surface. If I have a very large project, I have a roll of butcher paper that I fold over a few times to make the thickness I want.
Google “clamping set for milling machine”.
1-use studs of various lengths instead of of bolts. A threaded rod cut into small sections of various lengths is a good source of diy studs. You do not need grade 8 steel studs for clamping wood. You can buy knobs with pass-through holes. They work just like nuts but you can tighten them by hand. Or use nuts to lower the vertical projection of the clamping setup
2- there is good chance one of the standard size T-slot nuts commonly used by machinists will match your slots. They are not expensive and will last forever. Sliding those nuts in/out is not a big problem. But I in exchange for small inconvenience they offer large support area =great holding power.
3-the ramps need steps to prevent it from sliding apart under force. Look closely at the ramps used by machinists.
Fantastic problem solving - I love it
Why not laminate 6 mm MDF onto birch plywood? That would solve the problem, right? (BTW: Great design!)
good idea
I have mixed feeling seeing the effort just for clamping: I wonder why Felder has put a top on this tool, when you add and rebuild an additional layer. Is the cover from Felder so worth, that you needed an extra layer ?
Would it not be possible to level the original bed ?
I guess the most convenient solution for Felder and the user was to use aluminum extrusions for the table. That way you can make anything with it. Flattening the aluminum table or add another one like I did
Where does one find the longer t-slot nuts? Is there a specific keyword I should be using in my search?
search for "t track nut hammer head"
This is a great video. The magnets on the washer is fabulous. A small but valuable time saver and convenience. The suggestion to use T-slot head bolts would be great, but one would still need varying lengths because of interference with the excess bolt protruding. What specifications would one use to search for the larger T-slot nuts?
I hope you patented all this before you released this video!
nice idea, thanks.
A well thought out and executed design. What size t-nuts did you use? Looking on e-bay, they are sized by the size of the thread (M5, M5, M etc.) and sometimes the extrusion size (2020, 3030, 4040). I would very much appreciate it if someone (Marius?) could clarify which size I require. Thanks in anticipation ....
They're called EU30 M6x16,5x8 and EU40 M6x19,5x8, but that's for the European standard
@@MariusHornberger Thank you.
I can find nuts to those standards available from China on e-bay -- but which of the two you mention do I want to fit in the 3d printed parts?
Nice system. HOWEVER, if you use all-thread with thread lock into the t-nuts you made, you can do away with the various lengths.
Instead of MDF you can also use HDF. Which is a lot harder than MDF.
Also more expensive.
Thank you so much for sharing your ideas. It's so refreshing to see a young man using his brain to the fullest. I know your parents are very proud! PS everytime you say sh** it makes me laugh. It's my go to word also! Thanks again!
For the waste board - glue 1/2 MDF on top of plywood. That should solve your potential problem
PLEASE sell these things! I don’t have a 3D printer and your design is awesome! Also, I brought in your STL model into Apsire (to try to make them in wood), but the imported model is HUGE... how do you size it so it fits the nuts profile? And, where did you find those large t-nuts? Thanks again!
Can you try to harden the MDF edges with epoxy? If not rabbit out for Z extrusions that your T-nuts and bear against. I am going to explore both when I finally get my OX CNC router put together this year. (Bought in 2015) yeah I'm slow.
Regarding MDF failing, perhaps the cheap IKEA HDPE chopping boards? You could try it for just a section of the table?
If Mpx with glued-on mdf is too much effort, try this kind of Tischlerplatte with mdf top (sorry non-Germans, i dont know the Translation). Cheap, thin mdf layer, more grain/stability in the core
You are so going to make your fortune reinventing or refining some widget or doodah.
There’s a European guy who has been here for decades living at the end of the valley who invented or patented a switch or something to do with any USB connector.
He lives on 100’s of hectares in seclusion in bushland.
Just got up and left Europe for the quiet farm life.
And doesn’t appear to “work” at all...
Probably works a 80 hour week online or in his farm office or shed....
which trackinserts did you end up using exactly, so many iterations on ali and bay ... and where did you order ? Bin auch Deutscher ;) also kannst du nen shop empfehlen ?
I loved the idea of a cross grain reinforcement, definitely keeping that in my brain! :)
Quick question, though... why not do it in aluminum?
no you dont need different length of screws you need 1 hex nut for 1 screw and in this option you can have 2 or 3 length of screws for all applications.
Tufnol is a material used by laboratories, colleges, universities & research. We use a lot of this stuff for test jigs & production automation stuff...It is a high compression fibre sheet with epoxy...very tough material. Check it out.
smart
Why not just use the existing aluminum T tracks but reverse the bolt direction? i.e. Make new slot inserts that mate to the bolt head and then have the clamp knobs at the top house nuts rather than the bolt head?
Hi @Marius Hornberger, great video as always!
Do you have a link to the sized hardware (drop in t-nut) for the "Nutenstein_Niederhalter.STL" please?
I found them on Amazon. Search for EU40 M6x19.5x8
@@fsvelektronik Thanks for the reply. I did find them and they work perfectly!
Maby you can laminate MDF then aluminium plate, and then mdf again with epoxy? Then the botten half of the MDF is shallow. En the top MDF as wide as the allu plate. Then you atomaticly have a reinfoced grove.
I would think it would be easy to glue a layer of MDF onto plywood. Then skim/surface the MDF side. Still have the strength of plywood on the bottom with the flatness of MDF on top.
Virgin HDPE is expensive yes. Maybe your 'local' Precious Plastic community can come to the rescue.
If you add an extra wing nut under the current 2-spoke star and fix the work piece with them (rather than the 2-spoke stars) then you could use the longest screw for everything. You wouldn't need to worry about which length to pick.
Why not put some threaded rod into the T-nut, then put a jam nut against it from above, that way the threaded rod and T-nut are locked together. Then from above, you use a wing nut and a washer to pull your clamps down. That way the travel distance beneath the T-nut won't matter-- it will be in place already. You might have a little too much rod sticking up for some jobs, so maybe several sets of rod length could be used.
Just make multi layer spoilboard where T-tracks are on plywood and then glue MDF on top for surface
Thanks. Love the ideas. I'm so happy to see your current videos back online.
Great job! Already saved in my to-do list :)
I would go back to closed slots cut in the clamp boards, and make enough of them to go on all of the screws. That way there are only two separate things; the stair, and the screw/knob/clamp board assembly.
Why not reinforce your slot cuts with super glue or epoxy. The super penetrates the material and epoxy bonds with the MDF which means the epoxy would need slightly deeper cuts. I often used super glue to reinforce the pdf when adding fasteners to it.
I am really impressed. Amazing.
Love your videos Marius! Thank you. You deserve good fortune! Do you have the info on supplying the larger drop in tee-nuts. I have not seen them.
Hi
I have an unusual question. Remember the font name in picture 4:02 , I mean the font for the number.
Greetings :)
The only thing that I would add is that aluminium bolts and washers would prove to be far les catastrophic in the event of a plotting error... just a thought = )
Hi Marius nice work, love your video and problem solving. By the way where do you get those nuts?
a friend of mine with a cnc only cuts into the spoil board by 3thousands.....his spoil board lasts so much longer now.
Glue thin MDF onto plywood to have the better of both materials. Why not use different color handles for the different length bolts?
You should patent this nut design. For increased travel, turn the design upside down - make the "head" of the bolt go in the slot, and spin a nut down from the top.
Meu ingles é pessimo, meu amigo, a minha mesa é muito parecida com a sua, o sistema que prendo as peças quase igual tambem, mas estou buscando uma alternativa para prender as peças sem ter que apertar com chaves etc... um sistema que libera a trava mais rapido, voce ja pensou nisso? Obrigado
could always step up to HDF alot more dense than MDF and not that much more in price and still get your flat profile.
Different colours for the different sizes would be my suggestion. Other than that this seems to be very nice.
Wow. Awesome work Marius!
why not make each length of bolt a different color 3d printed handle for sorting purposes?
Twisted minds think alike!
I wanted to make a few this weekend anyway for my new X-Y table.
Hi. Use a layer of a soft PVC sheet from 12 -19 mm. Is also cheap as MDF.
Are you still going to use cam clamps?
Maybe. I also have many ideas for improvement on them, but that's not finished yet
Thin plywood and glue top layer of MDF. Tadaaa.
they've already solved this problem, instead of using a nut and bolt use a stud with 2 nuts
Colour coding the different lengths of bolts (say the heads) would make it easier to find if you are in a hurry
Why was this not how this type of nut was designed right from its conceptual phase?
Very nice job
You should sell these. Make sure you protect your design if possilbe.
would a 3d printed clamping board not of been easier as well instead of the ash, or is it not rigid enough ?
I always appreciate your content! You're skills at solving problems are impressive!
wow! This idea is really cool! Thanks for teaching me.
Great video as always Marius!
What software are you using for your router?
Hello. Why dont you reverse the position of the nut and screw?
Is their a link for the nuts that I am missing? Hoping I can get them in North Amercia.
Hallo Marius, ich hoffe du findest einen partner der mit dir eine Firma aufmacht und Lösungen für Werkstätten produziert und verkauft. ich wünschte ich hätten diese nutsteine. die aus metall drehen in aluprofil meisten durch. ich habe zwar keine CNC aber das wäre auch perfekt für Bohrtische. da arbeite ich gerade dran
Hi Marius, I am glad I can just type your name instead of pronouncing it, but then you will probably think the same for my name. Anyway now for the reason, I am typing this. 1. It seems to me that making the whole clamp on the printer would be better, and 2. "The 10-minute workshop" did a thing about the strength of MDF and although it was not quite the same, it does show that MDF has a lot more strength than was previously thought.
I wanted to make the clamp out of wood, becasue wood is much stronger than a 3D print in this application
what dimensions did you use for the tracks? an what are the dimension of the insert nuts?
Brilliant work sir. Very very helpful...
You can just make whole slot table out of plywood for strenght and glue some MDF sheet on top. When MDF will wear off over time, you just have to face it down to the plywood with CNC and glue new sheet on :-)
This design is both simple and very effective. It just automatically works without the user having to try anything. Proper engineering.
You could get the benefits of a plywood base if you just glue MDF on top without losing too much Z-travel and still get the easy machining of MDF.
Für die Auflagen kannst du auch Multiplex beidseitig mit 3mm MDF belegen
I think those are the best clamps ive ever seen.
Marius you are such an inspiration. Please share which 3D printer you now recommend???? Thank you!
I can only recommend my prusa i3 mk3s, but I also don't have any other so...
Great work! Regards
HDH valchromat in place of the MDF may be better
you can stiffen up your mdf with lacquer
How about an outdoor water spigot handle or would that take up too much area?
You are a genius!! In my personal experience (10 years professional use of CNC) the problem with MDF is that changes a lot in thickness over time and you always have an ugly CNC. 4 months ago I bought a new CNC with hard ABS and since then I never had to plane the surface and the thickness is constant on all the 4 meters of my machine. Maybe, as your cnc is small, you might not have thickness problems.
I can imagine someone like Matthias W being impressed by *this* video :) Nice!!
I think the gifted Pantorouter indicates Matthias' awareness and appreciation of the talent.
@@scottwoehl2069 Talent, yes, but I mean specifically the step-by-step explanation of the design-oriented thought-process. What is your favourite Matthias W video? Mine is the one where he explains his design-process-rationale of the wooden marble-machine he designed for this un-named company. .. for the same reason.
Marius,bist du ein Zerspannungsmechaniker?das kommt mir alles so bekannt vor 😂