ALWAYS 9 vs PERFECT MENU - Who is better?
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2024
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A raging debate has been happening on Twitter about which theoretical Smash Ultimate character would be stronger: Mr. Game & Watch who's hammer ALWAYS gets a 9 or Hero with a fixed menu of the best spells, that never changes? We created a mod with both of these characters doing exactly that and put them to the test!
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Magic Burst should be the 1st option
projectile could be 2nd
and buff should be last
Zoom 3rd.
If i made Hero i would make 1st always melee, 2nd ranged, 3rd buff and 4 others.
Extensive research into the characters *shows g&w spamming downsmash in neutral*
down smash side b most hype confirm 🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶
I think game&watch is more broken but Vyq's hero was just better lol, Cfive was only fishing for those side Bs but Vyq was doing good with the rest of Hero's kit as well. Also seemed hard for g&w to approach in that matchup.
Yeah, let's see Vyq's Hero against Poppt1's G&W, see how he fares against someone who knows that Up-Tilt combos into Side-B
I mean, Vyq was also barely approaching at all. He was running and camping quite a bit, only approaching to get back mana so he could keep running and camping. In all honesty, I can understand Cfive's frustration, as Vyq's gameplan was... I don't know. The only word that comes to mind is "toxic", but that doesn't quite fit.
Edit: After a brief consideration, "unfriendly" is how I would describe Vyq's gameplan.
He didn't use bucket once
@@christianrose9166 I mean when you die for almost any whiff you make, you don't exactly want to approach (especially considering how hero is naturally inclined to camp a bit)
I agree that G&W is more broken, he can throw out judge as much as he wants without any issue, but Hero's menu is useless without mana.
calling it now this type of thing should absolutely be a new series for you guys it would be wild to see things like joker with perma arsene vs sephiroth with perma one wing and def more examples
also maybe have characters against each other with perma WORST RNG and things
monado Kirby vs unlimited deep breath Wiifit
Peach with all stitch turnips
Samus with always charged plasma
DK with always charged punch
Luigi with all misfires and/or all sweetspots up-B
Jigglypuff with rest that actually recovers damage OR doesn't put her to sleep
Ice Climbers with wobbling (lol)
Captain Falcon with instant Falcon punch and/or all sweetspots knee
Wario with always charged waft
ROB with always charged laser
Villager/Isabel with 5x range and damage slingshot
Megaman with 3x range and damage buster
Little Mac with KO punch that stays active until he dies
Cloud with much faster charging limit
Steve
@@nathanlevesque7812 this is such a bad mu, not only does wii fit just get completely outclassed in the base matchup, but deep breathing itself sucks on wii fit as it barely increases her knockback and it doesn't fix her other character issues which is why wii fit is constantly placed in the lower tiers. However monado is a good ability because the effects are actually noticeable to the user and will play a part in the matchup. It's just gonna be base samus vs hacked kirby. It wouldn't even be close, kirby destroys.
I feel like always crit hero and always 9 GNW would be a closer comparison.
Hero's smash attacks come out ridiculously slow compared to the hammer
G&W is a top tier without 9.
Hero's smash attacks are unusable, down smash is the least bad one but it's also much weaker than the other two
also hero cant smash attack in the air
@@YounesLayachigame and watch is far from top tier. They aren’t bad or anything but the top tiers are basically overpowered and game and watch is a good but honest character. They wouldn’t be in the league of top tiers if they 9 all the time. They wouldn’t be landing those 9s in the first place because of their low range and they aren’t fast enough to compensate for that range issue. The only exceptionally good thing about game and watch normally is their crouch and it’s not enough to make them top tier.
@@ultimaterecoil1136bro must be a Game & Watch player if he calls Game & Watch honest 💀💀💀
Hero is kind of missing Bounce to have a perfect down B. I wouldn't know what move to delete for it, though.
That't why limiting Hero to only 4 spells is a bad idea. it doesn't make him better at all.
You would have to make it so you only get zoom while offstage and then you get bounce while onstage or eomething
Delete oomph
For a perfect Hero menu, you should have access to other spells when you have a buff like Oomph active because that way you aren't taking away good buffs like Bounce away from Hero.
@@johnnickfanaccount3492 The code for that is already kinda there, since the Zoom probability changes offstage. You'd just need to crank it up to 100% and set it to 0 otherwise.
People have already pointed out the lack in the Hero set menu vs the G&W 9s, but for sure at least, having access to Bounce instead of Zoom while standing on stage would probably be better. Keep Zoom for midair but Bounce on stage
Judge 9 still fucking crushes. Simple stupid. Steal. Stocks
Simply put, the best menu to have is Sizzle/Snooze, F Slash, PU, and Acceleratle. The order is important
VyQ is a certified hero main because he forgot to use all other special moves while focusing on menu and smash attacks xD
The thing is:
Hero has an opportunity cost to his set menu. Psych Up, Bounce, Snooze, Thwack, etc. All become unavailable, whereas Game and Watch doesn’t lose anything by getting free 9s.
Well, he loses brain cells, but that’s fine because he didn’t have any already.
Exactly
No heals from apples on a 7 💀
@@michaelescobar7064 no self-harm from 1.
Btw, the 1 does more damage than 7 heals, because 1 scales with 1v1 multiplier while 7 does not
Hero should have preset sets to choose from so he has access to every spell
Guilty gear strive Asuka test cases
Next video: Peach with unlimited bombs vs luigi with unlimited misfires
Then, Kazuya but he always has Rage vs Joker but he always has Arsene
and always go Terry and always 3rd wing sephi
When is Steve with infinite materials?
@@inv_hana That one would be awesome.
Robin with infinite books
Samus/DSamus default charged shot
Rob Default big laser
Having Magic Burst on the best spell list is such a meme lmao
Common misconception is that 9 kills at 0%, it actually kills at 9% from center.
Is it 9%? Thought it was like 31-34%
@@Matanumi It is 9% from center on average weight characters. Bowser, the heaviest, should die at like 15% from center.
@@crawlinggoosedepends on map
@@AmandaLorenaa More weight dependent really, but Mii Brawler is the exact average in the weight spectrum, and he dies from Battlefield center at 9%. Other characters like Pichu, Purin, and Squirtle die at like 2%.
I've never seen it kill that early from center stage.
I'd say it's pretty questionable for Hero to not have Psyche Up in his "perfect" menu, which he can pair with Slash and Oomph for instant shield breaks.
Sizzle or Snooze first. Free unreactable pressure vs ledgetraps and projectile trades
F Slash second. Can camp out characters with low jumps and approaches, and have access to killing 2 frames and ledgetraps
PU, because pressuring shields and having stronger melee attacks is invaluable
And lastly Accelerate because you no longer need Zoom because you can jump out of disadvantage freely. That, and the regular Acceleratle stuff
cFive: "We have extensively studied these characters to represent them as well as possible."
Also cFive: *doesn't use a single forward air or down smash*
And does not use bucket at all...
He got a kill with fair @13:26
I'm very surprised Accelerattle isn't in Hero's perfect menus
It’s just not as oppressive as the other spells. I actually thought the same thing when I saw the selection but which spell would you replace
@@christo7072 Id replace Kaboom for Bounce, and make that the perfect menu imo.
Accelerate still has no slot though, its just not useful enough. Oomph is better becuase of the shield break potential, insane damage and kill potential, and more damage means you recharge mana faster for more magicburst
Then again, there IS an argument for accelerate over oomph in that it lets you camp easier which means you can run away and naturally let your mana regen. Then you dont need to do high damage cuz you can just magic burst for kills instead.
although you can also argue for replacing Zoom with accelerate. WIth that high of an air mobility, you dont really need zoom, because you can just jump back to stage from basically anywhere.
So there are a few considerations.
But Bounce is necessary on the perfect menu, because it literally invalidates like a third to half the cast. Its not useful in every Mu, but the ones it is useful in, its literally impossible to deal with.
Replace zoom for accelerattle. The guy below you brought up a valid point saying that with the amount of insane air drift you get, you wouldn’t need to use zoom to recover
I think Hero would be better if it wasn't a fully fixed list but a reduced-RNG list:
slot 1 has strong hits (Kaboom, Kacrackle Slash, Hatchet Man, and Flame Slash)
slot 2 has buffs (Oomph, Psych Up, and Accelerattle, if all three are active it becomes Hocus Pocus)
slot 3 has utility (Zoom, Heal, Bounce, and Snooze, Zoom is guaranteed if near a blast zone. Might need to nerf Snooze then, maybe make it cost more MP or smth)
slot 4 has jank (Whack AND Thwack, Magic Burst, and rarely Hocus Pocus)
Just get rid of Kaklang, Metal Slash, Kamikaze, Sizz, Sizzle, and Boom entirely, and having to look at fewer spots if searching for a specific spell would be great.
The perfect menu has flame slash and psych up , for instant shield breaks and early KOs.
Also when psych up is active, it gets replaced by another buff like bounce, acceleratle or hocus pocus only positive effects
I don't know if somebody thought of this before me but what if every Hero skin had their own Down-B selection of spells? What do you think, would that be fun?
No only one player gets it so in competition it's would be insta banned
@@inv_hanawdym only one person gets it I don’t remember it being illegal to choose the same skin as someone else
I thought this is how hero would work when he was released
@@Ser0z You can choose the same Hero in 1v1, at leasts. There's two of each one. In a 2v2 scenario, all 4 players can't choose the same Hero.
@@Ser0z2 people can’t chose the same skin.
It's probably Game and Watch. 9 would literally be the best move in the game if you could get it every time.
Full charge manaburst > 9. The only issue is it uses your mana.
But you can easily just camp to get mana back, and with oomph hero regens mana really fast since he does more damage. So you can get a ton of manabursts.
GnW cant really deal with a camping hero with a menu that looks like that.
Sorry but that's too much of a lost unless you have infinite mana
Judge 9 is simple, stupid, deadly. Guaranteed every time stock around 34%
I feel like hero with flame slash, kaboom, psyche up, and zoom is overall a stronger toolkit due to the shield break potential, speed of flame slash (wouldnt need to read the menu first which effectively makes it much faster in practice), and overall mana efficiency. Magic burst is really only effective offstage for guaranteed edgeguards due to slow startup which a guaranteed flameslash and kaboom would replace well enough while improving his onstage kit
You still want bounce in the setup though, it invalidates so many characters. I think its pretty necessary to have.
@@eragon78 which one to get rid of though... Maybe psyche up 🤔 shield breaks with flame slash is pretty key tho. Maybe getting rid of zoom as good as it is
@@michaelescobar7064 not sure, depends on your set up I guess. There are a few viable options.
I dont think you need both kaboom AND magic burst. Magic burst needs like 60+ mana to be good, and Kaboom takes nearly 30. I dont think you need both in the kit. Replace magic burst with bounce, and then you have a solid kit of Oomph/Zoom/Bounce/MagicBurst. Zoom is a low mana unbeatable recovery, Oomph is your constant buff, and bounce for any zoaner. Magic burst gives you the free kills on edge guarding/ledge trapping and tech chase reads.
You could also instead replace magic burst and maybe zoom or Oopmh for Flame Slash and Phych Up. That combo insta breaks shields, and its like a frame 5 move or something. Make flame slash the first item in the menu so you can insta top deck it, and it becomes a very powerful get off me option that does good damage and kills super early with psych up while also breaking shields. Then you have bounce so you cant get outcamped, and without magicburst, you should have no issues on mana since the rest of your spells dont cost much other than Kaboom, which you can use as your zoning tool. So you can camp with side B and Kaboom, while having bounce on so that you cant be counter-camped, and then you use Psych up and Flameslash to instakill anyone who tries to get in on you, and they cant even shield it.
So there are a lot of really good combos that Hero can have for his menu. But I think any perfect list has to include bounce.
9-only G&W is probably still better, but I want to see infinite MP Hero (with all spells) instead, as well as unlimited resource Robin.
Steve with infinite iron, gold, and diamond is something I just don't want to see on my screen.
imagine, cloud with always limit, wario with always waft, joker with always arsene... it would be fun to watch.
wait... little mac with always ko punch. oh my god worse than steve with always diamond
Luigi always misfire
Hero would be better than unlimited resource Robin even if no changes were done to him.
Depends on the ability to use them tbh.
If you're able to consistently get your combo starters as GnW, you can pull off true 0-deaths in the most insane ways.
If you're able to manage your mana well, Hero can become dangerous and harder to take down under any normal circumstance due to guranteed menu spells for certain situations.
My issue with this is that hero has more than 4 good menu moves. Like accelerattle, bounce, psych up, or even heal could have all been viable. Imagine spamming heal, or psyching up whenever you want without the drawbacks of receiving increased damage like oomph
I think Hero is better here. The consistent 9s definitely make GnW's advantage state a lot more explosive, but that's all it really does. Meanwhile, Hero's buffs make his neutral, advantage state and disadvantage state all much better. It's way more versatile.
Let's be honest. Game and watch with the really good combo game he has could take a whole new level of advantage with always getting 9. Nair into 9, D smash into 9, etc.
Yea, but Hero can just camp. GnW has to actually land a combo starter for that to matter. Cant land one if you cant get in because hero is camping you with Kaboom/magicBurst, on top of the fact you cant shield cuz Oomph bair and Fsmash both break shields. Fsmash even breaks full shield, bair does like 90%. Plus, Hero is a swordie, albeit a slow one, but his disjoints with oomph would be INCREDIBLY scary, and hard for GnW to get in on, plus, Hero also has side B to camp with as well.
WIth all his insane options, itd be really hard for GnW to get in against a perfect menu hero. This makes his insanely deadly 9 much less of a threat.
It's hard to tell which spells of Hero are the best because it's always depending on the situation. Flame Slash for a quick mid-air kill, Snooze to garantee a free Smash attack, Sizzle for a powerful snipe, Thwack because it can instakill...
I would say limiting Hero to only 4 spells doesn't make him any better.
There's also Bounce, which is completely useless in some matchups but is busted in others.
reduces time to consider options and also gives you a better way to judge if or if not to use D-Special
If i know what to get i can safely judge if it's worth to use D-Special.
Regular Hero can't do that, you eighter get the right spell or you just miss out on an opportunity to pressure your opponent or to get out of pressure yourself with a regular attack or something.
So it does make him better just cause RNG isn't a reliable option, even if you might lose some really good spells for some situations.
There's also the element of unpredictability. You can force your opponent to focus on something else while you dig in your menu and they won't have any idea what's going to come. It was also smart they added in Kamikaze and Kaclang to prevent you from just spamming the first option in the menu for a completely impossible-to-predict attack.
Love the timing with that Sonic 3 & Knuckles ost, perfect choice !!
Man cFive calling the emergency BO5 reminds me of all the times we had a "ONE MORE" with my friends...
I originally was always going with game and watch cuz 9 is BROKEN as hell with how early it kills, but then I actually remembered how BROKEN magic burst is being able to use it basically any time you want, so it really depends who’s playing who like always.
G&W way better
Magic burst is only really broken at like 60+ mana, and it uses all of the remaining mana in the move. Game and watch nine is just as powerful but is also quicker and can be comboed into so easily. GnW DEFO wins
@@elmacho1336 Yeah but the thing is, game and watch gotta be exactly in front of them, and hero can stand at a great distance and edge guarding is light work. Like I said, depends who’s playing
@@awxazgalacticdude cfive wasn’t doing the combo right it’s down throw ->nair -> side b. Nine kills Mario around 9 percent at center stage. Nairs combos into nine early percent and fair combos at mid percent. Also down smash side b would kill so early. Side b around the same speed as f-smash so gnw would be better imo
@@blueice7906 I definitely agree with that, with hero you gotta always watch how much mp you have, especially since magic bursts takes it all and it’s power depends heavily on it, nine just fuckin kills for no reason and for it to be constant, I definitely see why that would be excellent. Me personally I’d do way better with game and watch than he was 😎
Bro, those aren’t even heroes best spells 😂. I’d vote psyche up, snooze, flame slash and accelerate
idk kaboom is pretty freaking cracked ngl
Accelerate Can be hard to use to its max without a decent amount of practice
Magic Burst is cracked
@@Gixin nah, too expensive for the reward. Minimal shield damage, and can always be airdodged/rolled at ledge
Magic burst has a lot more utility than snooze and I think you're underrating how good it is to have zoom as a recovery option at all times. Your list is very offensive minded. I think this one's more well-rounded. I could agree with psych up and accelerate but zoom and Magic burst are pretty obviously the best choices
Imagine if they had rigged hocus pocus to be invincible or something
Always giant would be interesting.
Wack goes crazy on this
This is basically "frame 15 warlock punch" vs "infinite recovery and omnidirectional warlock punch"
If hero had Thwack, Whack, Kaboom, Zoom then i would say hero
Throw in a Snooze
No wack but heal 😮
@@snuit4744heal has a use limit per stock it would end up useless pretty quick granted would still be pretty strong
4:33 How did I not know that Roy could do this before?! I have so much to learn.
10:11 I looked at this and remembered that one UR2SLOW video of Sakurai designing Hero. Magic burst was intended to be unavoidable when recovering.
I’d argue Hocus Pocus over Zoom, if HP always Giants, Invincibility, or Restores Full Mana. I would say Heal is part of those, but that would require removing the “2 per stock” limit.
Zoom makes it impossible to edgeguard hero,
With HP he can still die offstage if unable to recover.
I'd replace oomph with HP definitely
Personally, I feel like snooze would be better than magic burst.
Or maybe bounce. I'm leaning towards bounce, but it's not exactly perfect since a number 9f characters wouldn't care about him having bounce.
Suggestion, bounce is there by default, but if bounce is active, then snooze will appear. These of course replacing magic burst.
perfect menu for hero should include hocus pocus but with only the good options. actually perfect menu would be to give him 2 menus, one set when grounded and the other when aerial.
Tbh I thought it was clearly Game and Watch simply because the menu select wasn’t even Hero’s best moves out of the command select.
Gnw also just gets a free spammable kill move on top of up smash down smash lol
Now which is a better character:
The Hero in this video
Or
Vanilla Hero with infinite mana?
The fixed menu hero would win.
Being able to spam random specials isn't as strong as using the perfect special at the perfect time.
For example kaboom would be very strong for edge guarding due to the windbox, but VyQ used MB instead.
Flame/Kacrakle slash would make a hero impossible to approach due to their size and speed. Also good for edgeguarding.
Whack is so cheap hero could spam it without infinite mana.
Not vanilla then.
this is so good. thanks for testing this out, bsd! both improve lots with this consistency.
Magic burst seems like a bad pick but I can understand not having Bounce on since that's MU dependent.
I've got a few ideas on other broken characters.
Incineroar, but his revenge status is always maxed out.
Steve, but he has unlimited resources.
Sora, but he always does Fire, Freeze and Thunder simultaneously.
Luigi, but his grab has unlimited range.
Lucario, but his aura is always at its maximum.
Kazuya, but his Rage Drive is always active.
Terry, but his Go Mode is always active.
Cloud, but he can reach his limit twice as fast.
Bayonetta, but witch time is twice as long.
Bowser Junior and the Koopalings, but they can bring out an unlimited number of Mecha Koopas and Cannon Balls.
Wario, but his max level waft is always ready.
Pac-Man, but he can summon multiple hydrants at once.
All three Mii Fighter variants if they had access to one another's moves.
For instance, Mii Brawler with Shuriken of Light, Shakram, Lunar Launch and Absorbing Vortex and Mii Gunner with Shot Put, Onslaught, Hero Spin and Counter Throw.
I'd be happy to allow you to use these broken buffs as part of a video showcasing ideas put in the comments sections of your videos.
You don't have to showcase all of these characters in one video, but I'd like how broken they'd be if they were actually modded into the game.
Now do one where Roy's flare blade is an instant full charge
Punished on the miss though
@@MatanumiA full charge self damages so it’s still kind of a self punishment compared to some moves
So many options for sequels, unlimited waft wario, arsene only joker, steve infinite iron, basically any dlc privilege all the time.
Hero. FREE.
Kaboom - Insane projectile. Has windbox. Kills. Insane Range.
Zoom - Never SD.
Oomph - Just makes him stronger
Magic Burst - FREE Edgeguarding and kill move
Ngl, I think that, rather than a static set, the true perfect hero menu would depend on the players’ position. Like, magic burst is an amazing coverage move, but it’s best used when Edgeguarding or when the Hero player is sure they can secure a hit (such as if the enemy is in their face). Otherwise, you just wasted all your mana. Personally, it feels like more of a last stock or early cheese kill. So let me suggest a more comprehensive menu moveset, including move order
Long-mid range neutral:
Acceleratle (replaced by bounce if accelerate is active
Kaboom
Sizzle-Snooze (cycles between the two)
Oomph (replaced by Psyche Up if the buff is active) (replaced by whack if the enemy is above 100% and/or if both Atk buffs active) (replaced by hocus pocus big if both buff active and enemy not above 100%)
Short-range neutral and advantage:
Flame-Kacrackle Slash (cycles)
Sizzle-Snooze (cycles)
Magic Burst (replaced by Thwack if the enemy is above 100%) (not replaced if the opponent is offstage and you are at ledge, no matter the range)
Hachet Man: just in case for clips ;)
Disadvantage:
Zoom
Acceleratle (replaced by hocus pocus small if buff is active)
Magic burst (replaced by kamikazee if mana is too low to recover and the enemy is nearby
Bounce
Hero :
Powerful and fast long ranged attack
Boosts to his attack
Free recovery
Sacrifice regenerating mana for a giant killing hitbox
G&W:
Kills you at 20 with a move he can true-combo into with moves he can spam in neutral
This is not a fucking question, G&W is the answer
"Always have pretty good spells" vs "every hit/grab leads into an instant kill" gee i wonder whats better
hero's best menu would definitely have hocus pocus that always makes you giant
Being big doesn't always mean good. The same way that being small doesn't always mean bad.
@@Lucaryu96 so when it's not good, don't choose that menu option. but a non-crit forward smash while big is an instakill so being big is often good
Game and watch by a long shot because A, hes already better than hero, and B, hero's set menu is not that much of a buff if any while g&w is getting a huge upgrade that makes kills incredibly easy. Only menu change that would make hero busted is giving him heal every time, since normally it has a stock limit i think. That or you remove all the useless spells like metal slash, kaclang, bang, etc
That or make his menu Zephrys in the perfect spell, like zoom offstage, kaboom at long range, kamekaze when up in stock at high %, etc
@@airestith5309 good stats for the cost
Just by getting rid of bounce you can tell that hero is not as good as it could be, kaboom is a very strong offensive spell, but for utility bounce negate entire moves and even match ups
(Just to name an example, it remove G&W's fair and upair completely, two very strong moves from the character)
TLDR on the perfect menu:
Sizzle/Snooze
Flame Slash
Psyche Up
Acceleratle
Order is important
"I can't dthrow combo" I bet that character studying took ages right 😂😂
With 24/7 zoom there is no need to actually use Hero’s up B. Was surprised that vyQ didn’t zoom consistently when he was offstage given that it’s one of the best recoveries.
If we're going that route, it would be a no for 2 reasons.
1. Woosh out of shield is amazing, so unless you mean up b to recover...
2. Acceleratle is virtually always better than Zoom
@@survivorofthecurse717 Acceleratle wasn't in the menu.
R we forgetting that G&W can down throw, n’air, then 9 for true combo at 0%?
I mean, Hero wins the matchup normally (+1 I think?), and now he has a set of consistent and versatile tools which work especially well on someone stubby with good edgeguards, meanwhile G&W just has a single narrow tool with an insane risk:reward ratio. Of course Hero wins the fight between the two
He’s just F ing running 😂😂😂😂got me rolling on the floor
I agree with another comment made. Acceleratle for sure is needed. And maybe psych up or snooze
I'll place this down for my comment on what the perfect menu should be:
1. Sizzle (or snooze)
2. Flame Slash
3. Psyche Up
4. Acceleratle
I'm free to discuss why this is, but ill wait for comments to ask
At first I thought that G&W would win this because the dthrow to 9 is so powerful but after seing the magic burst spamming hero... Yeah I more on the side of Hero winning this now
Hero wins the MU more....
Nut GW judge 9 is busted
“Perfect menu hero” and the spells are Magic Burst Kaboom oomph and zoom 💀💀💀
I don't think I saw a single G&W bucket or bury DownSmash.
As a Hero main, the "Prefect Menu" is flawed, since you lose out on a ton of great moves like Snooze, Thack, Flame Slash, etc.
The mod should have been removing lower duplicate spells like Bang and Sizz, bad spells like Hatchet Man, Kaklang, and Metal Slash, as well as always pulling a posative effect with Hocus Pocus.
How is this even comparable? 9 breaks shield, beats spot dodge, kills from anywhere at like 15%, comes out relatively fast for how strong it is, lingering hitbox, can be comboed into from normals, aerials, and grab, can be used in neutral assuming that it is always going to be a 9, and probably a lot more.
Hero arguably becomes worse when he becomes limited to 4 moves rather than what he usually has.
Sonic tunes? Yes.
Emergency final game with S3&K Final Boss music?
LFG!
Let's see how 9-Hammer Game And Watch and Kaboom Oomph Zoom Magic Burst Hero fair against Steve.
My mans played G&W and didn’t use a single smash attack smh
In theory hero always getting reliable spells is a straight upgrade. In practice, the game already heavily biases good options to show up more often when the moment calls for it, so all you're doing is giving up the variability. Now something that would make hero extremely strong is if ideal spells always show up as you fist choice no matter what, but the other three used normal weighted random. This means you're always getting zoom offstage, always getting magic burst at the ledge, always getting metal slash when the enemy is metallic, thwack when the opponent is high %, hatchet man when opponent is shield broken etc etc.
EDIT: Ideal attack in the first slot, Ideal Buffs in the last two slots. Normal random in the second slot.
Imagine Luigi but he always Misfire, Villager that always Spike or Peach/Daisy that will always pick up Stitched Turnips, Bom-Ombs and Mr.Saturns.
Normal villager always spikes with his dair.
What he has is a random number of turnips, which change the strength and size of the Upair and Dair hitboxes.
The weakest dair is also small which makes it easy to miss the sweetspot. But it does spike on the sweetspot.
The spike sound effect does not play for very weak spikes at low % like Mac's dair, pit's dair, and villager's 1 turnip dair, but it's still a spike
@YounesLayachi Well you could be right but Villager does have his down B with has a chance of getting a piece of wood to throw at or extremely lucky, a piece a fruit you can eat for some health.
Hero wins the G&W MU, soo...
But yeah, I would switch Zoom for Acceleratl, since Acc is a great recovery tool too + have the crazy movement speed as well.
Hero : Magic sword and extremely powerful spells
GnW : Hammer
I think GW shouldn’t chase even when hero runs for charging MP. He is super good at spacing and waiting, and has a lot of punishing combo into sideB.
Magic burst is not the best spell for hero, I’d replace it with either bounce or snooze, much better than magic burst which get rid of all you mana and isn’t that powerful unless you’re at 100
Oh yeah I forgot snooze. Very very strong if on demand.
Combined with kacrakle slash and whack, and your opponent will never have a chance to play xD
Sleep -> freeze -> disintegrate.
You could even chain 2 or 3 freezes to add damage
@@YounesLayachi you couldn’t chain freezes, it wouldn’t reset the freeze timer but it would still do the damage.
@@beeftips1628 ah, didn't know that
@@beeftips1628 you could chain freeze info sleep into freeze ?
@@YounesLayachi yeah I think so but it might have a tight timing, bc they can act pretty fast out of freeze
My hero picks would be
Flame slash (frame 6 strong and very disjointed move, dosn’t cost to much 12MP)
Psyche up (It may not be oomph, it does cost 2 points less at 14 and for me it’s personal preference. also helps flame slash)
Zoom (obviously, 8MP)
Hocus Pocus because I feeling lucky! 4MP Or Accelerate because the movement is good when you can get it whenever you want, 13MP
Y’all the goats! Love this channel and been watching y’all for as long as I remember keep up the great content!!
I personally would choose
Kakrackle Slash
Zoom
Psych up
Hocus Pocus.
Hocus Pocus would keep the randomness that makes Hero so fun to play.
Hocus Pocus doesn't sounds like it's really Competitive Material
Down throw side b at 30 would go crazy.
technically, wouldn’t hero having hocus pocus with the super star invincibility be the best?
13:31 Nah bro raged fr💀
Should've been Zoom, Kaboom, Oomph, Psych Up
I thought G&W would’ve done better in this MU because of bucket reflecting kaboom and the added KB that Hero receives from oomph, but that reach on the sword with the rest of his kit just wasn’t enough
Well if you can pick all your abilities then hero would just pick bounce for reflect MUs.
as they have tested before, if hero shoots a projectile and his opponent has a constantly active reflector as well as him having bounce, then the hero always wins the trade and the reflected projectile will always one shot the opponent.
what about peach/daisy only pulling bobombs
I think that if you are a pro game and watch player and you know your true combos into 9 it's unstoppable
Comparing the 2. G&W gets a kill conform from a down throw that kills at 10 (and remember that G&W’s dash grab range is crazy long.And that with rage it kills at 0). And Hero gets a big, super fast, strong, and safe projectile. A buff that gives him more shield damge, more kill power, and an insane boost to his raw damage. An extremely strong screen nuke. And an invincible, infinitely long recovery, that cannont be ledgetraped or edgeguarded. (Remembering that Hero take more damage when oomph is active). Leave a reply in the comments on what one you think is better:)
Im thinking hero, beacause he gets 4 moves that are all super useful for different things. While G&W get a kill conform that kills at 10, that now kills 100% of the time instead of 11% of the time. (Game and watch would still be busted tho.)
i get everyone's like "mana burst is so OP 😠" but id actually replace it for bounce
i feel like having a move that invalidates so many characters means of approach or defense or camping or whatever, constantly available? kinda broken
mana burst is only good against characters that are slow and can't run away, or characters that don't have projectiles that interrupt it. and for them... kaboom does the job already lol
also doesn't oomph make you take more damage? wouldn't psyche up be more useful, even if it's way more temporary? i assume you activate oomph when you're very much in advantage (ledge trapping type deal), but then if someone gets past you, and starts a combo, you're suddenly taking more damage than usual
mana burst vs bounce is more preference, but isn't oomph vs psyche up more of a no brainer???
depends on the level of play maybe?? maybe i'm just a less skilled player? i just imagine mana burst really only counters slower characters without poking options to stop the big explosion, and that combo of traits are usually reserved for the less common/less viable characters. bounce counters those mid tiers that use projectiles to start combos/get in, and top tiers often have a decent-good projectile too so i feel like bounce does more for a character that would otherwise struggle lol
if it was increased to 5 spells (so that in the air, zoom would show up instead of oomph/psyche up/bounce/whatever, then it'd be some easier picks imo)
Old MacDonald had a farm, 12:00
with that hero set, yea gnw is obviously better, but if it's the REAL best hero set (zoom, acceleratle, oomph, and thwack) then it's hero without a doubt cuz he has the best movement in the game, multiple RELIABLE recover options, and can always just spam instakill moves past 100.
Remove oomph and give him kaboom.
Oomph is useless because hero's normals are slow, it also makes him take more damage.
Kaboom is the best way to rack up damage on your opponent, otherwise thwack would be useless on a low% opponent.
Thwack costs 30 MP which means you can only use it twice if you use the other commands.
Whack might be better because it's cheaper and much faster. At close range it's unreactable, almost instant.
cFive forgetting that G&W's down special is a reflector
GnW's 9 for sure. I am a bit biased because I do main GnW, but with how GnW can confirm into it and with the shield damage. 9 for sure, and Hero is still bind to the rules of limited mp.
I think G&W is better, Hero loses quite a few good options such as Bounce and Acceleratle and also has to deal with MP costs. G&W is top tier without Side B as someone else in the comments said, so the free 9s are just the icing on the cake.
Wait, people really think Magic Burst is Hero’s most broken move? Not thwack!?
FINALLY, More Nines!
But what is one of his abilities is hocus pocus and he always gets a mana refil, combine that with magic burst and he is better. They are technically 2 of his abilities he can get from down b
would love to see Game & Watches 9 vs. Little mac's KO punch.
the thing is with hero, all moves have a good use so limiting his moves adds a weakness of predictability,but with g&w you are always hoping for that 9
I feel like cFive could've spammed down smash more with G&W to true confirm into the 9
This is a difficult decision, but I think Game and Watch is more broken. He already has very little lag on his moves, his down smash to always 9, edge guards and ledge traps with 9 are ridiculous. I have to give this to Cfive
Other youtubers: intro in the first 30 seconds of video
Beefy smsha dudes: intro at 11:24 B)
I think having zoom at the top is better, since it will mostly be used in a quick recovery situation
Hero down b but it always gives you invincibility from hocus pocus 💀
13:09 CFive had like half an hour to think how to punish vyq, and then when Magic burst ends he just do a grab instead of a 9, i'm always clive's team but honestly he deserved loosing this match