also, specifically to your discussion, I really love the amount of stuff you guys remember. I've seen people go through these episodes and not even recall the conversation between Canute and Sweyn, where Sweyn says that Canute's going to turn out just like him. and yeah, I teared up at some parts of these episodes too. I am so attached to Thorfinn, and seeing him build this fragile peace within himself is so simultaneously wholesome, heartbreaking, and triumphant... I love rooting for him.
finally... episode 9 every piece of this episode is amazing, from beginning to end. there's such a jarring contrast between the vision of paradise at the very beginning of Thorfinn's dream, vs. the reality of the life he's living now... that transition from him lying contentedly in the grass, compared to him lying bloody and bruised in the dirt is so jarring. and then the worst of his crimes that he can imagine must be laid before his father. he sits there, cradling Einar in his arms, and he has to explain all the lives he destroyed. he did it all for the sake of his father... but what can he possibly say, to justify it to the man himself? and there's nuance, even in how this is presented. within this sequence, Thors is depicted as the young man that we saw fighting in the show's opening scene. we see him for the man he truly was... someone who also carried the weight of the people he'd killed. Thors was never morally perfect... perfection isn't required. you can decide to do better at any time, regardless of what you've done, but you must never forget the weight of it all. Thors had more to say to Thorfinn. he knew it all from experience. he wanted to spare Thorfinn from the kind of life that he had lived. it was his wish, as a father, to protect him from that. "that strength was for protecting you. I'm sorry Thorfinn. I still had things to tell you. there was still so much I needed to teach you." "there's no one who it's okay to hurt. there never was." Thorfinn is holding his knife in Einar's neck, at the start. then, the knife is in Thors' hand... the way it was when he initially grabbed the blade, directly after Thorfinn first picked it up. once again, we see a demonstration of the harm that blade can do, as it draws the blood of someone that Thorfinn really cares for. if he wouldn't harm them, then he shouldn't harm anyone. seeing Einar as a victim is an essential part of the message here. Thorfinn keeps projecting Einar's image onto the violent things he's done, in order to humanize the people he's killed in the past, and contextualize the worth of their lives. he can extrapolate grief for all these people based on how much it would hurt to see Einar this way. but then at the end of the episode, Thorfinn awakens from his dream and sees Einar lying on the ground. and the first thing he asks is "are you alive?" as though he expected to find him dead... as a result of this fight that he chose. and Einar's first words, through bloodied lips, are "we won the fight" as if that's a good thing. after what Thorfinn just saw... that vision of the dead warriors, and their never ending bloodshed... this is heartbreaking. as sad as it is to imagine Einar as a victim, it's also deeply upsetting to imagine him as a perpetrator. Thorfinn knows that Einar would only resort to that if he was pushed far past the limits of his frustration. that's not who Einar truly is, or how he deserves to be known. he doesn't deserve to be at rock bottom, already a mess, and expecting further punishment. he's worth more than one punch's worth of satisfaction. Thorfinn is just glad that he's alive. and that's really the function of seeking peace. this is the method by which Thorfinn will care, and protect, and value the things that he wants to keep alive in this world. and it is the harder struggle. in a world this violent, how is that even an option? a true warrior fights this fight. it's easy to get mad, and do harm. it's hard to find a safe way out of the scenario, without having to throw a punch. that hard work is what Thorfinn really owes. but then, as if that wasn't enough, we also have the sequence below. this horrible place, full of nothing but fighting. out of pride, warriors will say that this is all they want. just more opportunities to do exactly this. fight, win, prove themselves superior, be the strongest, find glory in the defeat of their enemies, this is what it really looks like. it's pointless, and it always has been. and seeing Bjorn and Askeladd here... first of all, I'm glad it was pointed out that he just looks like he's in his berserker mode, because it's always been awful to see Bjorn this way. Bjorn was the smartest member of Askeladd's crew, outside of Askeladd himself. it was actually a horrible waste, even in life, that his main fighting style was to take drugs and erase what might've been his actual most valuable attribute. but whatever was worth anything about Bjorn doesn't matter here. Bjorn might've been a stronger fighter whenever he'd eat one of those mushrooms, but that wasn't the reason why he and Askeladd were friends. and now, that's gone. but on top of that, there's the parallel between Askeladd and Bjorn's relationship, and Thorfinn and Einar's. even as Bjorn followed Askeladd, he never got to know everything about him. he was loyal anyway, but he followed Askeladd until it killed him. and on the flip side, Bjorn died, and left Askeladd with no true friends on his side, as he went into his own final moments, alone. these two couldn't connect. they couldn't help each other. they couldn't save each other. they couldn't even admit that they were friends until the end. that was the part that should've mattered, but now... this is what they're left with. this was what made up the majority of their lives, and now it's all Thorfinn will be able to remember them by. was any of that really worth it? did they really waste all the time they had? Thorfinn has the opportunity to do better than this. Askeladd's life is a cautionary tale. everything that was ever really important to him got put on the back burner, until the 11th hour, when he found himself with no true friends, and nowhere to turn. if you don't want to end up in situations like that, you have to start committing to the things that matter a lot earlier. before things start spiraling out of control. and right now, it's not too late for Thorfinn. he's done horrible things, true, but he can start improving today. that always means something. Thorfinn can't atone for the deaths he's caused by dying. he can't repent via pain either. that isn't useful to anyone. instead, Thorfinn owes his improvement to the world. this is how he'll avoid the mistakes that they all made... Thors, Askeladd, and his younger self.
also in episode 9, the parallel perspectives of Thors and Askeladd are really interesting. Thors with his exemplary "you have no enemies," and Askeladd with his cautionary "here, everyone besides yourself is your enemy." Thorfinn did used to live there, with them. he forgot Thors' words, or maybe he never understood them in the first place, and did the exact opposite of what his father tried to tell him. there is no punishment worse than finding out what happens when you live like that. and Askeladd knows. in some ways, he might've always known. but I think what kept him trapped was this mistaken notion of sunk cost, wherein he assumed that the things he'd done had already besmirched him. any additional crimes were par for the course, for a man like him. why beg for forgiveness? nobody would ever give it to him, and he wouldn't deserve it if they did. Askeladd never opted out of Thorfinn's anger at him. he could've killed Thorfinn when he was still small. he could've broken his legs. he could've tied him to a tree and simply left him behind somewhere. Askeladd had options. he chose to keep Thorfinn there, constantly accusing him. constantly reminding him of the thing he did, and the kind of man he is. it's amazing how much power something like that has. it can keep a man from living the life he actually wants, for the entire duration of the time he has. even if all he wanted was peace for Wales, the method he chose forced him to act in character as himself... the leader of a band of Danish mercenaries. Askeladd spent most of his life being something he knew he hated. this is why Thors was really so impressive. Thors managed to get out. it really is that difficult to extract a person from a path like this, but Thors managed to do it. and thinking back on the types of people who never understood Thors... someone like, say, Thorkell doesn't want to know this. that's why he was asking Thorfinn what the secret was. he wanted to know how Thors became such a legend, but in truth, the answer is something that Thorkell doesn't value. and at the time, Thorfinn didn't either. Thorfinn understands now though. and it's a massive accomplishment.
Peak🥹So good…. However, an even more amazing peak episode awaits after this! The way Thorfinn's growth is depicted is wonderful. Askeladd is the best. The guidance from Thorfinn's two fathers was also very good. Can people change by honestly facing their past? The questions the author asks are profound and wonderful. Also, the contrasting changes between Thorfinn and Knut are very interesting.
on episode 10: I would say this pair of episodes is notable for being so, so incredibly good... but then I remember that the rest of this season is just like that. but still... this pair of episodes hits so hard. I think a lot of sense can be made of Canute's character when you realize that Canute has always thought of attaining peace from a top-down perspective. even in season 1, Canute relies heavily on his belief in a higher power, institution, or authority figure... whether that be god/the church, or his father/the monarchy. and he has always seen the problems he observes as being solvable, with the right person in that lofty position. he wanted to become someone who will use that power correctly, but if he was ever going to do that, he'd first have to take that position from whoever was already holding it. he'd have to have the strength for that. when Willibard talks about the impartiality of god's love, Canute critiques god for setting humanity up for failure. human beings can't be impartial... it is natural to favor the familiar, and act with hostility toward threats. but overall, from Canute's perspective, god turned humanity loose in a world full of gifts to covet, with zero guidance. many people are now left to stumble onto the path of warring, and pillaging, and wallowing in their sin. this parallels Canute's critique of his father, who Canute believes is running the country wrong. Sweyn presides over a violent warrior culture, which glorifies and venerates the kind of cruelty that Canute would seek to eliminate. and yet, even back then, Canute's first priority was to kill Sweyn, before Sweyn could kill him. and so, having rejected his father in heaven, saying he'd rather build his own utopia on earth, and having rejected his father on earth, claiming that the old man has misused the power of the crown, Canute has basically resolved to gain authority over everything he can, consolidate it under himself, and bring the paradise he envisions into reality using the method he feels is best appropriate. Canute was gifted an idyllic childhood by Ragnar, so he knows what a peaceful life should be like. but that peace was constructed via Ragnar's own defensiveness... his overprotectiveness. it worked, until things became out of his control. and that's the flaw isn't it? a lack of control? at the very least, that's how Canute sees it. and why wouldn't he? he was raised as a child of royalty. from the beginning, he was primed and ready to see systemic power as his most accessible tool. if he wants to get anywhere, then he has to engage with his role as an heir to his father's power, in competition with his brother. these children had no choice... they were simply brought up in this political landscape. ironically, they were powerless... and in some ways, this particular aspect of the situation doesn't change when they claim their birthright. nobody has less freedom than a leader of men, who has to answer to everybody. the other operative concept here, is that Canute sees his own role as sacrificial. his innocence was destroyed when Ragnar died. he could no longer be a child... he couldn't be helpless, or scared anymore. he couldn't be impartial. he had to start taking action, making decisions... he had to admit that his father didn't love him enough not to kill him. he had to decide to strike back. there was no one left to insulate him from all of that. but from Canute's perspective... if he has to become a demon in order to get the job done, so be it. at least the goal will be worth it. he can accept that his own hands will be stained with blood, as long as it stops with him. as long as utopia lies at the end of the road, the ends justify the means. and still, Sweyn's warning remains. the crown commands the king to do two things: use power, and gain more power. it is futile to resist. Sweyn is literally talking about ends (using power) and means (gaining power) and it's the ambition to pursue more power that will domino effect into courses of action that you'd never take, if it was really up to you. but the crown has a mind of its own, you see. if the ends seem sweet enough, then you'll get there by any means necessary. also, the contrast with Thorfinn is definitely intentional. Thorfinn has always taken more of a bottom-up approach to change. he literally hates Askeladd, because their fates are so entangled with one another. and despite all the hatred that flowed between them, there's a greater sense of dedication between Askeladd and Thorfinn than we've ever seen between Sweyn and Canute. because Thorfinn cares about individual people, small scale conflicts, and interpersonal conundrums. Canute is a big picture person, to the point of seeming callously unrelatable. Thorfinn is a small picture person... he's seeing the people around him in excruciating detail. and Thorfinn's been the lowest of the low, down in the mud and the dirt, and the anger... if Canute was raised in idyllic conditions, only to be disappointed when the world showed its ugliness, then Thorfinn was raised in hideous conditions, only to be elated by the good that is capable of existing, in spite of it all. there are two sides to the coin of humanity. the side that commits atrocities, vs. the side that recognizes atrocities for what they are, and values the people who are hurt, and tries to help. both sides are human... the perpetrator and the victim. love for humanity vs. hatred for humanity is just a matter of which side of the coin you're focusing on at the moment. but the two are inextricable. if Thorfinn and Canute are any indication, both sides can be reflected in the same individual person. we are watching them swap perspectives... Thorfinn's heart is softening, while Canute is hardening his.
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also, specifically to your discussion, I really love the amount of stuff you guys remember. I've seen people go through these episodes and not even recall the conversation between Canute and Sweyn, where Sweyn says that Canute's going to turn out just like him. and yeah, I teared up at some parts of these episodes too. I am so attached to Thorfinn, and seeing him build this fragile peace within himself is so simultaneously wholesome, heartbreaking, and triumphant... I love rooting for him.
finally... episode 9
every piece of this episode is amazing, from beginning to end. there's such a jarring contrast between the vision of paradise at the very beginning of Thorfinn's dream, vs. the reality of the life he's living now... that transition from him lying contentedly in the grass, compared to him lying bloody and bruised in the dirt is so jarring.
and then the worst of his crimes that he can imagine must be laid before his father. he sits there, cradling Einar in his arms, and he has to explain all the lives he destroyed. he did it all for the sake of his father... but what can he possibly say, to justify it to the man himself? and there's nuance, even in how this is presented. within this sequence, Thors is depicted as the young man that we saw fighting in the show's opening scene. we see him for the man he truly was... someone who also carried the weight of the people he'd killed. Thors was never morally perfect... perfection isn't required. you can decide to do better at any time, regardless of what you've done, but you must never forget the weight of it all.
Thors had more to say to Thorfinn. he knew it all from experience. he wanted to spare Thorfinn from the kind of life that he had lived. it was his wish, as a father, to protect him from that.
"that strength was for protecting you. I'm sorry Thorfinn. I still had things to tell you. there was still so much I needed to teach you."
"there's no one who it's okay to hurt. there never was."
Thorfinn is holding his knife in Einar's neck, at the start. then, the knife is in Thors' hand... the way it was when he initially grabbed the blade, directly after Thorfinn first picked it up. once again, we see a demonstration of the harm that blade can do, as it draws the blood of someone that Thorfinn really cares for. if he wouldn't harm them, then he shouldn't harm anyone.
seeing Einar as a victim is an essential part of the message here. Thorfinn keeps projecting Einar's image onto the violent things he's done, in order to humanize the people he's killed in the past, and contextualize the worth of their lives. he can extrapolate grief for all these people based on how much it would hurt to see Einar this way.
but then at the end of the episode, Thorfinn awakens from his dream and sees Einar lying on the ground. and the first thing he asks is "are you alive?" as though he expected to find him dead... as a result of this fight that he chose. and Einar's first words, through bloodied lips, are "we won the fight" as if that's a good thing. after what Thorfinn just saw... that vision of the dead warriors, and their never ending bloodshed... this is heartbreaking. as sad as it is to imagine Einar as a victim, it's also deeply upsetting to imagine him as a perpetrator. Thorfinn knows that Einar would only resort to that if he was pushed far past the limits of his frustration. that's not who Einar truly is, or how he deserves to be known. he doesn't deserve to be at rock bottom, already a mess, and expecting further punishment. he's worth more than one punch's worth of satisfaction. Thorfinn is just glad that he's alive.
and that's really the function of seeking peace. this is the method by which Thorfinn will care, and protect, and value the things that he wants to keep alive in this world. and it is the harder struggle. in a world this violent, how is that even an option?
a true warrior fights this fight. it's easy to get mad, and do harm. it's hard to find a safe way out of the scenario, without having to throw a punch. that hard work is what Thorfinn really owes.
but then, as if that wasn't enough, we also have the sequence below. this horrible place, full of nothing but fighting. out of pride, warriors will say that this is all they want. just more opportunities to do exactly this. fight, win, prove themselves superior, be the strongest, find glory in the defeat of their enemies, this is what it really looks like. it's pointless, and it always has been.
and seeing Bjorn and Askeladd here... first of all, I'm glad it was pointed out that he just looks like he's in his berserker mode, because it's always been awful to see Bjorn this way. Bjorn was the smartest member of Askeladd's crew, outside of Askeladd himself. it was actually a horrible waste, even in life, that his main fighting style was to take drugs and erase what might've been his actual most valuable attribute. but whatever was worth anything about Bjorn doesn't matter here. Bjorn might've been a stronger fighter whenever he'd eat one of those mushrooms, but that wasn't the reason why he and Askeladd were friends. and now, that's gone.
but on top of that, there's the parallel between Askeladd and Bjorn's relationship, and Thorfinn and Einar's.
even as Bjorn followed Askeladd, he never got to know everything about him. he was loyal anyway, but he followed Askeladd until it killed him. and on the flip side, Bjorn died, and left Askeladd with no true friends on his side, as he went into his own final moments, alone.
these two couldn't connect. they couldn't help each other. they couldn't save each other. they couldn't even admit that they were friends until the end. that was the part that should've mattered, but now... this is what they're left with. this was what made up the majority of their lives, and now it's all Thorfinn will be able to remember them by. was any of that really worth it? did they really waste all the time they had?
Thorfinn has the opportunity to do better than this. Askeladd's life is a cautionary tale. everything that was ever really important to him got put on the back burner, until the 11th hour, when he found himself with no true friends, and nowhere to turn. if you don't want to end up in situations like that, you have to start committing to the things that matter a lot earlier. before things start spiraling out of control.
and right now, it's not too late for Thorfinn. he's done horrible things, true, but he can start improving today. that always means something.
Thorfinn can't atone for the deaths he's caused by dying. he can't repent via pain either. that isn't useful to anyone. instead, Thorfinn owes his improvement to the world. this is how he'll avoid the mistakes that they all made... Thors, Askeladd, and his younger self.
also in episode 9, the parallel perspectives of Thors and Askeladd are really interesting. Thors with his exemplary "you have no enemies," and Askeladd with his cautionary "here, everyone besides yourself is your enemy."
Thorfinn did used to live there, with them. he forgot Thors' words, or maybe he never understood them in the first place, and did the exact opposite of what his father tried to tell him. there is no punishment worse than finding out what happens when you live like that.
and Askeladd knows. in some ways, he might've always known. but I think what kept him trapped was this mistaken notion of sunk cost, wherein he assumed that the things he'd done had already besmirched him. any additional crimes were par for the course, for a man like him. why beg for forgiveness? nobody would ever give it to him, and he wouldn't deserve it if they did. Askeladd never opted out of Thorfinn's anger at him. he could've killed Thorfinn when he was still small. he could've broken his legs. he could've tied him to a tree and simply left him behind somewhere. Askeladd had options. he chose to keep Thorfinn there, constantly accusing him. constantly reminding him of the thing he did, and the kind of man he is.
it's amazing how much power something like that has. it can keep a man from living the life he actually wants, for the entire duration of the time he has. even if all he wanted was peace for Wales, the method he chose forced him to act in character as himself... the leader of a band of Danish mercenaries. Askeladd spent most of his life being something he knew he hated.
this is why Thors was really so impressive. Thors managed to get out. it really is that difficult to extract a person from a path like this, but Thors managed to do it. and thinking back on the types of people who never understood Thors... someone like, say, Thorkell doesn't want to know this. that's why he was asking Thorfinn what the secret was. he wanted to know how Thors became such a legend, but in truth, the answer is something that Thorkell doesn't value. and at the time, Thorfinn didn't either.
Thorfinn understands now though. and it's a massive accomplishment.
Peak🥹So good….
However, an even more amazing peak episode awaits after this! The way Thorfinn's growth is depicted is wonderful. Askeladd is the best. The guidance from Thorfinn's two fathers was also very good. Can people change by honestly facing their past? The questions the author asks are profound and wonderful. Also, the contrasting changes between Thorfinn and Knut are very interesting.
i was waiting 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥💕
Einar the GOAT
Not letting anyone oppress him
im hype to see you all watch the rest of the eps. i also need to know if you guys are gonna react to Dandadan op!!
PEAK
on episode 10:
I would say this pair of episodes is notable for being so, so incredibly good... but then I remember that the rest of this season is just like that. but still... this pair of episodes hits so hard.
I think a lot of sense can be made of Canute's character when you realize that Canute has always thought of attaining peace from a top-down perspective.
even in season 1, Canute relies heavily on his belief in a higher power, institution, or authority figure... whether that be god/the church, or his father/the monarchy. and he has always seen the problems he observes as being solvable, with the right person in that lofty position. he wanted to become someone who will use that power correctly, but if he was ever going to do that, he'd first have to take that position from whoever was already holding it. he'd have to have the strength for that.
when Willibard talks about the impartiality of god's love, Canute critiques god for setting humanity up for failure. human beings can't be impartial... it is natural to favor the familiar, and act with hostility toward threats. but overall, from Canute's perspective, god turned humanity loose in a world full of gifts to covet, with zero guidance. many people are now left to stumble onto the path of warring, and pillaging, and wallowing in their sin. this parallels Canute's critique of his father, who Canute believes is running the country wrong. Sweyn presides over a violent warrior culture, which glorifies and venerates the kind of cruelty that Canute would seek to eliminate. and yet, even back then, Canute's first priority was to kill Sweyn, before Sweyn could kill him.
and so, having rejected his father in heaven, saying he'd rather build his own utopia on earth, and having rejected his father on earth, claiming that the old man has misused the power of the crown, Canute has basically resolved to gain authority over everything he can, consolidate it under himself, and bring the paradise he envisions into reality using the method he feels is best appropriate. Canute was gifted an idyllic childhood by Ragnar, so he knows what a peaceful life should be like. but that peace was constructed via Ragnar's own defensiveness... his overprotectiveness. it worked, until things became out of his control.
and that's the flaw isn't it? a lack of control? at the very least, that's how Canute sees it. and why wouldn't he? he was raised as a child of royalty. from the beginning, he was primed and ready to see systemic power as his most accessible tool. if he wants to get anywhere, then he has to engage with his role as an heir to his father's power, in competition with his brother. these children had no choice... they were simply brought up in this political landscape. ironically, they were powerless... and in some ways, this particular aspect of the situation doesn't change when they claim their birthright. nobody has less freedom than a leader of men, who has to answer to everybody.
the other operative concept here, is that Canute sees his own role as sacrificial. his innocence was destroyed when Ragnar died. he could no longer be a child... he couldn't be helpless, or scared anymore. he couldn't be impartial. he had to start taking action, making decisions... he had to admit that his father didn't love him enough not to kill him. he had to decide to strike back. there was no one left to insulate him from all of that. but from Canute's perspective... if he has to become a demon in order to get the job done, so be it. at least the goal will be worth it. he can accept that his own hands will be stained with blood, as long as it stops with him. as long as utopia lies at the end of the road, the ends justify the means.
and still, Sweyn's warning remains. the crown commands the king to do two things: use power, and gain more power. it is futile to resist.
Sweyn is literally talking about ends (using power) and means (gaining power) and it's the ambition to pursue more power that will domino effect into courses of action that you'd never take, if it was really up to you. but the crown has a mind of its own, you see. if the ends seem sweet enough, then you'll get there by any means necessary.
also, the contrast with Thorfinn is definitely intentional. Thorfinn has always taken more of a bottom-up approach to change. he literally hates Askeladd, because their fates are so entangled with one another. and despite all the hatred that flowed between them, there's a greater sense of dedication between Askeladd and Thorfinn than we've ever seen between Sweyn and Canute. because Thorfinn cares about individual people, small scale conflicts, and interpersonal conundrums. Canute is a big picture person, to the point of seeming callously unrelatable. Thorfinn is a small picture person... he's seeing the people around him in excruciating detail. and Thorfinn's been the lowest of the low, down in the mud and the dirt, and the anger...
if Canute was raised in idyllic conditions, only to be disappointed when the world showed its ugliness, then Thorfinn was raised in hideous conditions, only to be elated by the good that is capable of existing, in spite of it all. there are two sides to the coin of humanity. the side that commits atrocities, vs. the side that recognizes atrocities for what they are, and values the people who are hurt, and tries to help. both sides are human... the perpetrator and the victim. love for humanity vs. hatred for humanity is just a matter of which side of the coin you're focusing on at the moment. but the two are inextricable. if Thorfinn and Canute are any indication, both sides can be reflected in the same individual person.
we are watching them swap perspectives... Thorfinn's heart is softening, while Canute is hardening his.
bro...
I think bro likes Vinland saga I might be wrong tho
@@Extremeharii I might like Vinland Saga a little...
Ambition killed the anteater!!!! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
You guys should react to Ado’s new upload ‘Villain’! She sings in both English and Korean!
You should react to Otonoke by Creepy Nuts, It's the opening for dandadan and It's honestly really good :) (the full version is also pretty good)
Been so long ❤
Have you ever listened to One OK rock song
Bro please react to gundam 00 opening and ending please😊