Ships of 1812
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- Опубликовано: 16 май 2016
- Grant Walker of the Naval Academy Museum explains the history and architecture of ships using the museum's original British dockyard model collection. This lecture was part of the museum's "War of 1812 & the Chesapeake: A School House at Sea."
Grant Walker is my wife's brother. We are so proud of him and his accomplishments! He also wrote a "coffee table" book about ship models and the like. He's a true authority on this subject. Little-known fact: He's also a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point. Just imagine the trauma he faces every year during the run-up to the Army-Navy football game!
I'm here for the ships' models and they are all so damn beautiful!
Amen. I build model ships myself but they are, um, er... not ~ quite ~ as beautiful as these.
@@macleadg I know the feeling! But this museum is like paradise!
@@macleadg that 's why there is the term "museum quality".
@@kostasgeorgiou8114 True. Mine are more like “It would look great in the garage, dear” quality…🤔
@@macleadg consider every model as a learning curve, the next is always better than the previous one. I don't build ships, although I love them, but instead I create dioramas. You can check my page in FB Diorama Creation.
Great presentation, and it is so nice to see these models in the current travel restricted days: But some errors i feel are worth mentioning which in no way take away from this video's joy for me. These are not in video order per say:
1. Carronades were not named for an inventor named "Carron." Carronades are named for the Carron iron works (original makers) on the river Carron in Falkirk Scotland. The name Carron is thought to refer to a roman era commander. Later the term referred to the type of gun regardless of who made them.
2.Being 3 masted has little to do with why american sloops of war were so successful against cruizer class brigs... The American ships were generally newer, carried a larger crew, and larger guns. While the cruizer class could carry 18 carronades many of these ships were old by 1812 and only carried 16 24 pounders to the american's 18 32 pounders,
In addition, as the royal navy had staffing issues maintaining such a massive navy there were MASSIVE crew differences... SO less crew and less firepower on the part of the royal navy is why the Americans won these battles... Additionally the cruizer class prototypes tried a ship rig (hms snake) but decided on the brig rig as it required less crew. Snake was rerigged to a brig, and going forward the rest of the class were brigs. The American sloops of war were not "mini frigates," they were, as he admits, "like the brig" in fact many of them STARTED as brigs but were re-rigged as ships as crew was not really an American problem, and the 3rd mast gave a slight edge in backing and maneuver at close quarters. The American sloops of war were slightly larger then the cruiser in general, but has the same low free-board and were the same hull type.. If it was ship rigged it was a "sloop of war," if it was a brig rig it was a "brig sloop of war" (or just brig-sloop) in essence tho they were the same sort of ship. last but not least I'd like to point out that if being ship rigged were so important, at the battle of lake Erie the British had ship rigged sloops of war and we had brigs. But again ours were bigger, and better crewed and heavier armed. - A long form discussion of these things is found in James (British perspective) and Roosevelt (US perspective).
3. USS Essex was originally built with long guns, but as an older/smaller frigate it was thought to make her more powerful to change her guns to carronades (much lighter) In general she would be faster then bigger frigates, and more powerful then the much more common cruizer class brigs, privateers, and merchants, found around the world.
Essex was not lost because she did not have a mix of guns... she lost because she got caught in port by two ships, one of 36 guns, one of 18 guns... the 18 gun ship had carronades, and yes range was an issue because the 36 ton ship was 100 tons heavier and carried 18 pounder long guns... the US rebuilt the Essex to be effective as she could be considering she was an old 12 pounder frigate. She had an AWESOME career in the pacific, and was the literary inspiration for the battle in Master in Commander far side of the world
4. Baltimore clippers are not shallow drafted. It's comical that he mentions them as such and 3 minutes later calls them "v shaped." V-shaped hulls are by nature deeper drafted
5. Jefferson gunboats were HARDLY canoes (the most gut laugh statement in this video) they were smallish heavily armed sloops (rig definition of single mast fore and aft, and not the unrelated term for a sloop of war)
6. He is correct that the royal navy made the first galley frigate, then overarmed It. but then he proceeds to claim they did not build any more till 1719(?off the top of my head)- not so! there were several classes of 20 gun 6th rate galleys prior to 1719. He also fails to mention that galley frigates became the defacto privateer of choice, merchant, and even pirate man-o-war (cruiser) of the era. I feel in criticizing the establishment era as too conservative, he is way understating the massive development of small "cruisers" as reflected by galleys. He is correct in mentioning the galley was not the perfect frigate that came later because of stability. The high center of gravity was problematic with even the small to mid sized guns, especially since the galley was built narrow for speed (as evidenced by Whydah Galley rolling over in a storm)
7. Oh yeah one more ... he complained about the Cruizer class model having long guns because it should have carronades. This is actually how the class was first designed, but the massive jump in firepower generated by the carronade made this arrangement obsolete almost immediately. (revisiting 3) which if he understood that I'd think he'd understand how off base his Essex statements were. Carronades made little ships big ships. Carronades had a massive throw weight for the weight of a much smaller gun. Essex being from an earlier era, was obsolete by the war of 1812 and needed that boost in firepower. She was finally cornered after pissing off and terrorizing all things British in the pacific for a long time. I'd hardly see this as a fault of her re-armament, but more the inevitable cost of running her as a raider in the pacific so long as to worn out her surprise and forcing a fleet to hunt her down! after 5 MONTHS of capturing 13 whalers they were caught ... Phoebe and Cherub, which had arrived as a convoy escort, remained to search for the 36-gun USS Essex. Hillyar was under orders to capture the Essex "at all costs". (sound like far side of the world? the movie re-imagined it as French from the American in the novel to be less offensive to Americans, and also made the royal navy the underdog for dramatic license) In real life the British knew exactly what they were up against, and even brought their own carronade ship (cherub) to deal with Essex Junior (a small ship Essex had captured and was using as a consort running a mix of long guns and carronades)
OK I'm done for real and humble apologies for being long winded!
Thanks again for this enjoyable video!
This is one of the best things I have ever seen on youtube. I have read much of this same material, but a historian putting all this together in a museum is a treasure to view. I am probably going to view this multiple times in the future to make sure I take all this in as I paint my tiny 1/3000 scale Age of Sail miniatures.
This man knows he's history. /respect
absolutely terrific video! very informative.
These two were in for a treat when they asked a question to this expert ;-)
I was sick when I watched this interesting video over different ships that served in the wars of 1812.
We talk about differences between a ocean liner, cruise ship & riverboats this man points out interesting views of different size hull.
Thank you for this interesting video of different flag ships.
There are few people in life you should meet to listen to. Grant Walker is one of them.
excellent video, was so great to listen to someone who is both incredibly knowledgeable and passionate about this subject.
Agreed... But the looks on these ensign's faces was priceless. As an engineer I love the mechanics of/and building and employment of technology. Awesome!
I visited the USNA museum this past weekend. Despite reading just about every placard in the building, I lost much of the continuity provided here by Mr. Walker. I would now like to go back through having these new insights.
This gives a great lesson about the different size freeboard on the hull of ships.
Wonderful lecture ,thank you so much!!
Perfect lecture he gives! I like that guy and his knowlidge.
I would love to go and get a tour like this. Fascinating time period.
I think I could listen to Mr. Grant Walker talk all day. He has so much knowledge to share and you can just hear the enthusiasm in his voice. I happened upon this video purely by chance but I'm so glad I did. What a national treasure Mr. Walker is. God speed, Mr. Walker!!
Great video felt like I was part of group watching from the back.
Excellent job on this. He's very knowledgeable. I'd kill to visit this museum and talk with him about the Age of Sail.
this video is amazing, he did a great job explaining the history and specifically the important improvements made to the ships over time.
This was a great lecture. I've read all of C. S. Forester's Hornblower books and just finished watching the A&E series, and found this a great aid in understand the way the Navy's worked in that time period. Thank you.🇺🇸
Read Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey Maturin series
Thank you very much. A glass of wine with you sir!
I truly enjoy the ease of Mr. Walker's explanation's and his exception knowledge . It's easy to see he truly loves history , well done video !
Incredible instruction - thank you!
Great video! Not a second too long. Had been looking for this information for some time.
RUclips at it's best.
Thank you!
A truly absorbing lecture. Thank you very much. I enjoyed it immensely and it served to settle a discussion I had in a bar in Annapolis near City Dock on my visit to the USA, because I am British and my home port is Gibraltar and I am a yachtsman. I am ex British Merchant Navy and did my studies at The School of Navigation in Tower Hill in London. I have separately from having served as a deck officer on middle sea routes hold a British Board of Trade Yachtmaster Ocean Ticket since 1974. So my studies in London were very intense and detailed both for surface engine driven ships and sailing vessels.The discussion was over a replica of a painting of a rigged vessel with two masts with exaggerated rake and a topsail. It was described to me as a Baltimore Clipper. In British seafaring nomenclature a clipper is a fully rigged ship with square sails on all masts, with a minimum of three masts so rigged.. I explained that a fully rigged ship can carry as many as six, in the following order: Fore, main. mizzen, jigger, spanker,r driver.As there was a lot of alcohol flowing the discussion was joined by others and became very heated. I was surrounded and vastly outnumbered by students from the Naval Academy who were polite but proved to be stubborn. We would call the ship described as a s being "schooner rigged" and for this particular rig as a "gaff rigged topsail schooner" and not a clipper at all.. I am gratified you have proved me to be correct. I have watched the video three times as I found it so interesting and detailed. Many thanks again.
I really enjoyed this video but as a Canadian I have to accept the fact that the War of 1812 was to the British an annoying side show and a theatre of minimal consequence because the British were involved in the Napoleonic Wars. On the Lakes at least, the USN tended to outnumber the RN most of the time. On the High Seas the RN was fighting France, and all the occupied countries. Even though they had won Trafalgar that only saved them from invasion. The RN was tasked with maintaining supply routes and imposing a blockade. These duties tied down the vast majority of the fleet, so the lopsided balance of forces is not really as crushing as it may appear. What would be more useful to illustrate the true state of affairs would be to include the number of European ships loyal to Napoleon in the balance sheet.
The invasion of Canada was an opportunistic venture to capture Canada when the British were fighting what amounted to a world war if you count colonial defence. The saviour of Upper Canada Sir Isaac Brock was depressed at getting sent to America because he saw it as a backwater and the end of his career. He knew that the battles that mattered would be fought in Europe. In this regard I think he was wrong, because in the long run Canada became far more important to Britain than any other colony except perhaps India.
My friend's father was the guy who found the wreck of the General Hunter on the Port Elgin Beach.
Bravo. The preservation of Canada was to prove vital after the outbreak of war in 1939. The contribution of the RCN should be remembered as without it, we may have gone under.
1812? The British army in Iberia included the men of the army of Brunswick as well as the armies and people of Spain and Portugal. The Peninsula campaign was perhaps the first in which my ancestors fought on the same side against a common enemy to free Iberia from the French tyrant Bonaparte. I'll leave the final word to brave Canada....
ruclips.net/video/8YTl5jFnhPs/видео.html
stumbled upon this because I was watching 'John Adams' clips...Glad I watched it, pretty cool.
Why did I click on this; I knew that when I start I can't stop watching this masterpiece of a history lesson!
Great vid about a very nice guy who really knows his business and shares with us his masterful knowledge. And he does it with real enthusiasm! Too bad those cadets don't seem to be that excited...personally, i would have attended to this lecture with a smile from ear to ear!
Fantastic video. Came upon this after watching Master and Commander. Expert knowledge. Terrific presenter. Enjoying every minute. Well done, Sir.
Wonderful lecture ,thank you so much,best wishes from Australia.
This is wonderful. Thank you so much for this great history lesson!!!
This is absolutely excellent. Thanks for sharing that video.
Amazingly interesting.
What a wealth of information and history!
Fascinating lecture. Rivetting even (which seems an odd word to use about ships which were constructed of wood....). Best thing I've seen since I picked up a copy of Chapelle's History of the American Sailing Navy.
Thanks you, Mr Walker, and the staff of the USNA Museum.
Superb! A fascinating tour and explanation. I learned a lot.
Excellent! Very well organized and presented! Great pertinent Facts too. Thanks!
Really Enjoyed This!!!
I just finished watching this excellent video and will certainly do it again. I am envious of those Midshipmen who were so lucky to have this invaluable private lesson.
I actually felt sorry for them, you could tell it was a little too much pressure.
Watched the whole thing, very good.
Great lecture! I am going to try to get down to the museum to see these ship models and displays on my own.
I love those terrific models!
Excellent lecture by an obvious, serious scholar. I’m not sure, though, about ship-of-the-line max speeds. They were probably in excess of 10 knots given suitable winds and decent handling. Also, carronades were invented AT Carron - a place in Scotland - in the Carron Foundry, not by someone named Carron. My grandfather was a CPO on the naval team which dry- docked HMS Victory in 1922.
Great collection the lesson was worthy also.
Outstanding…learned a lot!!!
That is Amazing!
Excellent lecture.
This is very interesting .. I wish they will present this video at the middle schoos ; we and our students need to study about the United States during the1812-1815 Navy . My husband is a Marine and my Father in Law was in the Navy participated during world war 2
Currently I'm building the Royal William of Euromodel on the scale 1:72. I try to make it look as beautiful as your modelship of the Royal William. It's a beauty.
Interesting talk, thanks.
Great video once it cought my attention vary good tour historian .
Very interesting lecture.
Top class.
What a privilege, thank you, I learned a lot!
nice vid! just starting to build my first model
Absolutely superb presentation - I'm so very impressed! I took 8 pages of detailed notes, and truly appreciate your incredible knowledge of naval history. I am a historian and watched this video twice. I would argue that the War of 1812 was indeed somewhat of a second war of independence. The British certainly had intentions to defy American sovereignty and did not intend to follow the Treaty of Paris. I hope I may visit your museum someday - I'd love to argue points with you. Again, thank you so much for a magnificent presentation!
dribble
that ship model is priceless. and how rude from that guy to run away and not listen this dude. wow...
Id like to know the name of that book...
When he mentions the length of a ship, is that including or excluding the bowsprit?
Uhh 1st rates didn't travel 6 knots under "ideal circumstances", Victory fastest speed recorded was about 11 knots, so it could easily go more then 6
The two cadets are musing, "shoot me now"...but I would love to visit the museum and hear his lecture...brilliant
Brilliant info 👌 👌 thanks 💯💡
History lesson👌👏
Any idea what book he has in his hand?
i build wood model ships and this was a great little video, thanks Grant walker, im in UK where can i get a copy of that book, would love to visit that museum one day really cool
You know it weird I’m 17 and Here I’m watching the entire video
Thank you.
What book was Mr. Walker referencing with all the pictures?
What is that book he's holding and keeps referring to?
What is the title of the book he is referring too in the film?
in 1814 I think that the British built this big boat in the town Kingston Ontario the boats name was the hms st Lawrence some people say that this boat ended the war on the great lakes primarily lake Ontario because the Americans did not have any other boat or ship to challenge it
Could somebody lock me in this Museum
for the next 2 years.
I think even then i would not beeing able to see and enjoye al the beautyfull Shipmodels and all the beautyfull Details.
Where is this museum at??
I was very impressed with the speaker and his knowledge, until he was explaining how a ship's boy might progress to a Midshipman, and then the unforgivable gaff: HM Royal Navy does not have any rank pronounced a Loow-tenant! It's pronounced Left-tenant, as I thought he would have known.
Anyway, this really is a fascinating video. Well worth anyone's time to watch and absorb such fascinating history.
I particularly liked the speaker's understatement of the odds (US vs Royal Navy), wherein he demonstrated that some -- admittedly, very few -- Americans do understand the use of Irony.
Respect, and thanks,
Rick
Thank You, I enjoyed your knowledge and enthusiasm.
It looks like the book is "The Naval War of 1812: America's Second War of Independence" by William S. Dudley
like this woman ,patient
In what I recall by the confrontation: The HMS Leopard was setting off our coast waiting to pounce on a American ship because many British sailors left the British Navy and joined the American Navy. The Leopard sent challenges to come out and parley. The War of 1812 was not yet declared. The USS Chesapeake came out without being prepared for a fight, and no reason , we were still at peace with the British. The two ships met but the Leopard gave a broadside to the Chesapeake, mortally wounding Larence. But before he died he gave the imortal words, "Don't give up the ship, Fight her 'til she sinks". However, the British realized their mistake and did not take the Chesapeake as prize because we were not at war yet. However, this action was one of the contributing causes to the entrance of the United States against the British in the War of 1812.
Well, Chesapeake had British deserters on board, and Leopard fired at her only after the captain of the Chesapeake refused a request by the British to collect the deserters.
Some inacuracies in that video - Americans were not the first with the 24pdr Frigates... British used such ships in 1790, like for example famous HMS Indefatigable, and in 1812 there were purpose build ships that could and did take on American 24pdr frigates like for example HMS Endymion which captured USS President, a sister ship to USS Constitution in 1814 (which he didnt mentioned at all)..
Great film Pete Dover England
Grandioso!
Excellent talk but it would be nice to see some of the stuff he was talking about.
she was a good sport
Hey Grant were saving up now , for a time machine ,to send you back to Educate 1800's Navy Admirals ; about faster hulls , And That if you have better rifling in a Cannon etc, then
you can shoot much further ! Avoiding the carnage that was normal in those days .
Much enjoyed , @robinkenward
Starts with a C ...ends with a Ruisers...brilliant!
the Magnificent Connie!
Good...BUT there was more to some of these battles than mere ship size, such as gunnery, metal weight, training, sailing ability (whether of the ship and or captain), affects of weather, and morale. She for example: archive.org/details/dataforwarof1812seaengagements
35:57 "She was built in 1679, just after they (the English) had finished beating the Dutch" -- nope, the Dutch beat the English in the two previous wars, the second and third Anglo-Dutch wars (1665-1667 and 1672-1674). Lots of other incorrect statements, many are pointed out below in the comments section.
I believe your description of a ship actually matches a barque -a ship has square sails on the mizzen as well as a gaff-rigged fore and aft sail, no?
A ship has three masts with square rigged sails on each and usually an additional fore and aft sail on the mizzen. A barque is square rigged on the fore and main masts but the mizzen is fore and aft rigged only.
Love how you can learn all this without ever being in the navy. I knew a bit before playing Naval Action, now I probably know more then them at this time XD
Ship price please
Slightly out. A ship is 3 or more masts, square rigged on all....and square rigged meant the primary driving sails are carried on horizontal spars which are perpendicular, or square, to the keel of the vessel and to the masts.
A lot of incorrect information. The British were quite capable of building heavy frigates carrying 24 lb guns and built some, HMS Endymion for example. The French also built some. They didn't in general build these ships due to costs and manning. The Constitution cost almost as much as a 74 that could blow it to splinters. Britain had to maintain a fleet of 100 frigates plus 100 ships of the line to cover all its requirements. Although Britain's population was about twice that of the US it had provide crews for about 25 times the requirement in addition to fighting a war with the French empire that had many times Britain's population. In fact at the time the US was considering to declare, Britain was at war with Russia also which had over 3 times its population. The US frigates required crews about a third bigger.After the US became a threat the British built the Newcastle class ships in just over a year larger and more guns than the Constitution. The US frigates were not handier but usually but not always faster than the British frigates. The claim about cross bracing is very disputed. The best of the class was considered sister ship the President and the British made a detailed analysis after they captured it which was their practice. It had no cross bracing. In addition the sister ship USS United States hogged which is an indication of lack pf bracing. It is more probable bracing was introduced during a rebuild. The other factor was the British Frigates were usually undermanned and designed for long periods at sea. The American ships were fine ships and fit the requirement of raiders very well but they were no revolution in design.
A great schooler
1st ship of line only 6 Kts ?? sry i dont believe so, i believe 1,2,3 rd rate were able to sail almost 12-15 kts, with wind from back or from little side and back, almost faster then fregates, because ship was longer and had higher bow, and more mass, which holds ship at strong wind with waves smoother in water, then fregate. and in battle, 1 vs 1, i would have prefered french 2 deck ships then british 3 deck ships in fight, turns much faster( you can set more salvos), and goes faster high to the wind then 3 deck ship...
depends on era.. those early 18.century 1-rates were not that fast... 6knots seems to be a bit low, but they usually couldnt go faster than 8-9knots... HMS Victory could sail 10-11knots for example, and French Ocean class 1-rates could be even faster...
Forgot to mention, they took all their sailors off their ships because the Royal Navy in the end had blockaded every port on the east coast and none of the US ships could leave.
That includes any Cannons that may be just plain in your way...!
To an Englishman, this seems like a typical American view of history and the importance of the colonies at that time, would you not say ??
I do get the impression that the war in America was a sideshow for the British, most of the time being content to blockade trade and stop French and American collusion,. Hence the class of ships they sent were those adequate to stop merchant shipping not to battle American ships and maintain status quo. As the video says for the lakes conflict, the commanders instruction was simply to keep the lakes. As the British had so many ships and the chances of meeting a powerful American ship in battle were comparatively trifling the need for top ships to be sent across the pond was not a priority for most of the time.
I love how he calls the ships this guy 😂😂😂
USS Ticonderoga Hull sits outside rotting in White Hall New York. Fought in the Battle of Plattsburgh. 6 men dead. Now it sits out side rotting in the weather.