The real oppression that campus feminists aren't talking about | FACTUAL FEMINIST
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- Опубликовано: 29 окт 2024
- Atena Farghadani is a 28 year old Iranian artist. She was just sentenced to 12 years in prison for the crime of posting a feminist cartoon on Facebook. Farghadani is a genuine victim of a repressive patriarchal society-yet you will hear little or nothing about her from the American women’s movement. Why not? AEI scholar Christina Hoff Sommers may have the answer.
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Partial Transcript:
Atena Farghadani was arrested in August 2014. Twelve members of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard came to her house, blindfolded her and took her to prison. What exactly was her crime? She posted a satirical cartoon on Facebook to protest actions of the Iranian parliament. The parliament had proposed to restrict access to birth control. She has been charged with ‘spreading propaganda and “‘insulting members of parliament through paintings.’ Once in prison, she continued to paint and draw. She flattened paper cups and made drawings. This was against prison rules. She was then denied paper cups. When she took some cups from the bathroom into her cell, she was beaten and sexually assaulted. Now she is facing the possibility of years in prison. Atena Farghadani is one of millions of women and men whose basic rights have been ruthlessly violated. I have been to international women’s conferences and met women’s rights activist from countries like Iran, Yemen, Egypt, and Cambodia. They are struggling for freedoms that most women in the west take for granted. They are organizing against barbaric practices such as child marriage, forced veiling, honor killings and acid burnings. Many of them are asking for moral, intellectual and material support from American women’s groups. But American feminists are relatively silent about these injustices-especially feminists on campus. During the 1980s, there were massive demonstrations on American campuses against racial apartheid in South Africa. There is no remotely comparable movement on today’s campuses against the gender apartheid prevalent in large parts of the world. I think I know why. Too many young feminists are too preoccupied with their own supposed victimhood to make common cause with women like Atena Farghadani. If you look at texts used in gender studies classes, visit feminist blogs or websites-you find alarm and outrage over the allegedly oppressed status of American women. The Penguin Atlas of Women in the World, is typical of what one finds in gender studies 101. It ranks the United States along with Uganda and Somalia in terms of women being “kept in their place.” Why? Because apparently in both countries “patriarchal assumptions" operate in "potent combination with fundamentalist religious interpretations." As the editor explains, in parts of Uganda a man can claim an unmarried woman as his wife by raping her. As for the United States, she notes that our state legislators have passed hundreds of anti-abortion measures. But wait a minute-- the Ugandan practice is barbaric. The controversy over abortion in the United States is a sign of a messy democracy working out its disagreements. This past year I visited Yale, UCLA, University of California at San Luis Obispo, as well as Oberlin and Georgetown. I found activist feminist students passionately absorbed in the cause of liberating themselves from the grasp of the oppressive and violent patriarchal rape culture. Their trigger warnings and safe spaces and micro-aggression watches are all about saving themselves from the ravages of the male hegemony. It’s not that they don’t feel bad for women in places like-they feel that they share a similar fate. Except they don’t. They are free women. They are the beneficiaries of two major waves of feminism. Their rights are fully protected by law. Samantha Powers is the able U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and she is a prominent champion of human rights. Well, she recently addressed the graduating class of Barnard College. Instead of urging the graduates to support women struggling against oppression in places like Afghanistan, she congratulated them for waging a similar struggle on the American college campus.
#aei
Imprisoned for posting cartoons, acid attacks, banned from driving, and beheadings for adultery are not matters for feminists to fight against, not when they themselves face the daily, daunting reality of seeing men sit with their legs slightly apart on public transport, or even worse, wearing shirts they don't like.
6oodfella I love the fact this got so much butt hurt from what I would probably consider my side coz your joke wasn't accurate enough.
For what it's worth I agree with them on the facts and I'm fairly sure you're aware of them too it just would have stripped the sarcasm and thus the humour from your comment. The middle east seems like it's pretty fucked up for everyone involved unless you're a Saudi Prince or something, but I'm not sure the West will be much better in a couple of decades the way things are going.
Ayam Sirias "Read the comment above and grow up" - Where is this coming from?
What do you mean grow up?
I said nothing immature to you, yet you attack me, why?
On my recent hangout with Lauren Southern I pointed out that a lot of women in Saudi are in favour of the driving ban because they don't want to lose their taxi driver, so I'm well aware of this fact.
Also, Sommers never even mentioned that in this video (or the beheadings), I'm mentioning it in order to make a joke at how pathetic feminists are, I thought it was pretty obvious I was joking.
What's funny is the notion that these professional umbrage collectors would engage in any real activism. They've been called out on their bullshit before and look what happened: "omg the sexism in _Westeros_ is just awful, Justice4Sansa!!!"
6oodfella you, my friend, are absolutely *HILARIOUS*! ha! keep up the good work, you comical genius :)
6oodfella That is funny. What would happen if someone put a pea under a woman's mattress. OMG the patriarchy. And even if it were a female that put that awful pea under her mattress it would be the patriarchy that made her do it.
"Too many feminists are too preoccupied with their own supposed victimhood..."
Truth, right there.
It's a shame that college campuses went from being a place of higher learning that forced you to think outside your comfort zone and work with people you otherwise wouldn't
to a giant playpen of overgrown children who want blankets and cookies when someone brings up a statistic that makes them nervous
***** I'm studying mathematics, and there is literally no space for any type of ideology in it. Not to mention the theory classes are based 100% on logic (it's almost amusing picturing a feminist trying to become a mathematician to impose their indoctrination). It is so vastly different from the rest of campus (and since I don't venture outside my department) I was extremely shocked when I started hearing about all these problems from feminist propaganda in schools. I didn't even know it was there.
***** Funny enough as a Canadian 26 year old white male that dropped out of high school before my last two years were up, the current state of third wave feminism and patriarchy has me fascinated and curious as to how bad sociology courses must be in some spaces; to the point that I almost want to go back and finish just to debate my own differences in opinion.
It is shameful though that we have campuses that support these safe rooms as though hearing another side of the coin is somehow inherently evil and wrong, it's an enormous concern to me that people can't go through college with an open mind... isn't that the entire point?
***** i heard this in an interview, but cant remember where: a "real" feminist was comparing today's (us-) universities to country clubs: you buy your ticket in, feel superior just by being in the club and you only get to hang with people like yourself
Feminism at the church of Scientology?
+ChaseFaceShow Ive said it before and Ill say it again, if Universities werent adult daycare centers before this shit happened they sure as hell are now.
It's very nice to see that there are still real Feminists left, thank you for this video. it should be shown in schools
Yeah but she is older than the feminists she talks about in this video, the real feminists are dying out.
***** haha yeah.
Ricardo Carmine it's not called a "real feminist" it's called an egalitarian. It's the same thing but better because 1 the name isn't ruined 2 it doesn't have femin in it and is actual equality
Why are you the only one I have heard who calls themselves a feminist that sounds like they actually are trying to solve problems? Most seem preoccupied with finding them. Inventing them if they fail to find any. Anyway. I love hearing what you have to say. If more feminists where like you I doubt I would still be anti-feminist.
revelationsr The short version: The other feminists are crazier and louder and thus show up more often in our media.
Dr. Somers is one of those beautiful, wonderful people that realizes the world doesn't revolve around her and that we've much bigger problems to worry ourselves with than things like her not caring for the kinds of video games I play. However, because she isn't screaming loud and screaming crazy she just doesn't stand out in the crowd much. :/
Because those so-called feminist you're thinking of aren't feminist. They are fanatics! Real feminist actually have a brain and use it well.
Peace Walker They're as much feminists as anyone else. A movement is responsible for the actions of the people who band together under it and something that's been around as Feminism is as much subject to being subverted and perverted by its membership as any other.
DarkAngelGuyver I agree about a movement being subverted and perverted but I don't agree with the idea of them being a feminist as much as anyone else. Once an ideal becomes so far off from the original message, it's not a part of that ideal anymore.
Ah yes, because no Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
Like it or not, they are what Feminism has become. They are the ones pushing the policies that we're seeing crop up both in schools and legislation. The funny thing is these feminists will just as readily say Dr. Sommers isn't a real Feminist for similar reasons to why you decry them. If you want to walk around wearing the Feminist badge this is part in parcel of what you have to contend with until either the movement changes, you adopt the banner of one of its subgroups and openly and exclusively identify to that, or you leave the movement.
MRAs, Muslims, Christians, Jews and damn near anyone else who identifies with a large group has this on them as well.
Atena Farghadani is a 28 year old Iranian artist. She was just sentenced to 12 years in prison for the crime of posting a feminist cartoon on Facebook. Farghadani is a genuine victim of a repressive patriarchal society-yet you will hear little or nothing about her from the American women’s movement. Why not? #FactualFeminist
John Mitchem No, you don't. Feminism is an evil ideology
John Mitchem Christina hoff Sommers is one of the extreme few self-identified feminists that I have even the smallest degree of respect for, Camile Paglia being one of the short list also. Both Camile Paglia & Christina Hoff Sommers have my respect despite my not sharing the view that there is anything redeemable in or from feminism, at this point.
I completely understand where you're coming from with the laundry list of actions feminism/feminists (& women in general, to a point) are directly responsible for. Feminism has been exceedingly devastating to virtually every aspect of life & culture that it has gotten its hands on & despite doing so openly & in plain view for all to see, they get away with it...
Despite the cancer that feminism has become & maybe always has been to the western world, we cannot allow ourselves to drop to their level & try the same kind of bigotry, censorship, open discrimination etc. that the feminist movement has been practicing for so long, we have to be better than that. I despise feminism, but what happened to that artist is wrong & cannot be considered "good" regardless of the conditions people like her might encourage to have happen. Whether or not you or I agree with her message however innocent or even good that she may think it, that artist deserves the right to express her opinion.
If we as men don't want to lose our rights we can't very well attempt to deny her her rights without becoming as bad as the movement we oppose
Anti-Feminist Egalitarian
American Enterprise Institute Awesome report CHS. You get more beautiful every time I watch you. Keep up the good work. :))))))
American Enterprise Institute Well considering how many Modern Feminists like to generalize things yet can't come to the same conclusion of even what Feminism is, it doesn't surprise me too much. There are so many sects who think it's about kill all men, take away men's rights, equality, or women's rights desperately clinging to the word "Feminism" with such fervor in a boisterous groupthink mob, yet all so chaotically divided on their ideals they're at each others throats when there's conflict. It's akin to a pyramid of cards just waiting for the next gentle breeze to knock them over, and once the movement either get's to the point that they go too far and people retaliate they'll fall apart.
Dieter H. Feminism is not an evil ideology, but rather the means to which they try to obtain rights through Feminism is evil. They downplay the rights they have and exaggerate the rights their so called "oppressors" have over them, yet fail to see the hypocrisy of using the same system that "oppresses" them to get what they want. Sadly, many including non-Feminists fail to see that fatal flaw in the modern Feminist secular logic, which would ultimately undermine their whole argument.
American Enterprise Institute Please you are or some one of your like are needed in Sweden to help feminists here get back on track. I try to enlighen them when ever opertunity arises. But im often being neglected, because im a young male that dont understand the struggles of women.
Dear Christina! No, the middle east is not a feminist issue. Women suffer, yeah, and men suffer even more. There are no countries in the world where this is not the case. You can't correct the situation by solely improve the women's station. Artificial imbalances only make things go shit.
Fax
It is coming from a girl from the Middle East women have no rights whereas everything is controlled by their fathers or husbands or even brothers they can’t where whatever they want and cases of murdered women in the Middle East are multiplying and no one is talking about it
I really appreciate your delivery: It's rational and void of spit and bile. It's what is needed to resolve issues and to understand one another. Feminism has taken a lot of damage not just by the so called "3rd wave" youngsters, but also the over-the-top blind feminist haters who refuse to see the differences here. You're a rare voice these days. Keep up the good work!
you can't fight for equality in a safe space.
That's exactly what feminism has mostly done since the beginning.
Darth Bacon
It's the ultimate Fabian strategy.
If you can demand a "safe space" - _and get it_ - then you have already obtained greater than equality; you've acquired special privileges.
Mrs. Sommers, you give me faith in feminism again.
What is 3rd wave feminism other than the collective shit-testing of men by malcontent women who want to find out how much they can push men around before men abandon them or beat them down?
Did... did you watch the video? It's criticizing third wave feminism. Christina Hoff Sommers is one of the few feminists left that actually care about equality for women and not female supremacy. A diamond in the rough, really. The whole video is about ACTUAL female oppression, not the hurting of a college girl's feelings.
Anthe Schmidt
Yes, Sommers apparently has not yet figured out that feminism is a cancer that will inevitably destroy any civilization that embraces it. She deludes herself into believing that the harm it does can be somehow limited simply scolding younger feminists and by pretending it won't necessarily get worse with the passage of time, even though all available evidence clearly demonstrates the error of her thinking.
Robert Roth Idk man I feel like a scholar heavily educated and experienced on the topic of feminism would know just a little more than a ranter on a RUclips comment thread.
Anthe Schmidt Some of the most intellectually dishonest ideological hacks you could ever wish to meet can be found in faculty positions on American college campuses -- especially Women's Studies programs. Sommers herself admits as much.
I would possibly be prepared to support a "feminism" if it focused on the issues of women in oppressive 3rd world countries.
But would it be wise? Would that really serve equality?
We are aware of the issues that women face in such locations, but what do we know, or care about the issues of the men in those countries? Why can't we CARE for both?
For every woman that is stoned to death for infidelity under sharia law there are dozens of men that are stoned, burned, beheaded and dragged to death for similar barbaric "rules" and archaic laws. Why can't we feel sorry for those too and say "we need a movement to speak for them as well!".
No, come to think of it, I would not support feminism even if they only focused on the issues of women in 3rd world countries as urgent as they maybe... Why? Because I know they would ignore the issues of men in those same countries and maybe even rejoice at the men being stoned to death thinking "one less oppressor". #killallmen
What we need are people who are not bigots, who have the ability to care for and fight for the issues of both men and women, boys and girls... equally.
TheSharpeful "We are hyper aware of the issues that women face in such locations, but what do we know, or care about the issues of the men in those countries? Why can't we CARE for both?"
I think we can and I think we do. As far as "caring" doesn't mean "actually doing anything about it".
"I would no support feminism even if they only focused on the issues of women in 3rd world countries as urgent as they maybe... Why? Because I know they would ignore the issues of men"
I disagree with this notion. I don't think a movement has to be about everything. That is possibly where feminism went astray, when it tried to be about everything.
e.g. I would support a movement to plant trees, even if it ignored preserving wildlife.
But maybe I think about ignoring differently.
Darckense Onoda "I think we can and I think we do. As far as "caring" doesn't mean "actually doing anything about it"."
I think we can too... but we don't.
Ofcourse we all heard about the women being stoned to death in muslim countries, and it makes our stomachs turn. We've heard of the girls being given away by their families to marry "dirty old men". We have even heard of, and use as some shining example of "oppression" about the women that can't drive in Saudi Arabia...
And we hear about them in interviews, news, books you name it...
But I can guarantee you that the common person has no idea that men suffer the death penalty in these countries in far... far greater number than women. And if they do, they will often rationalize it away as "well, they are probably just criminals". Even without ANY information on the issue.
And why do you think that is? Because we, as a society, just don't care as much for the men, it just doesn't illicit the same kind of emotional response out of us. It's just business as usual really.
If we're honest, (and judging by the media attention to things) we just don't really care as much about the 8 year old boy who is kidnapped from his family and given an AK47, a bottle of alcohol and a bag of drugs, than we care about the 8 year old girl who is made to marry a man 4 or 5 times older than her.
"I disagree with this notion. I don't think a movement has to be about everything. That is possibly where feminism went astray, when it tried to be about everything."
I agree, a movement doesn't have to be about everything. But since feminism claims to be for equality, and it's right up there in its very definition, then I hold it up to that standard. A standard that feminism fails to meet in nearly every possible way.
TheSharpeful "But I can guarantee you that the common person has no idea that men suffer the death penalty in these countries in far... far greater number than women"
I'd agree here, FIFA is doing it's best to fix the issue by having Qatar build stadiums with slaves from North Korea and Nepal (and more).
The Nepalese of which weren't even allowed to visit home for the funerals of their family.
But then I guess the reason this is on the news whereas the rest of these male-related issues in these countries isn't is because it has to do with FIFA.
"we, as a society, just don't care as much for the men"
Absolutely. It's far more dangerous for men to be outside during the night, yet every time it's made safer it's done under the name of "protecting women at night".
"a movement doesn't have to be about everything. But since feminism claims to be for equality"
Fair enough.
TheSharpeful If at least it can help someone I guess it's a victory. But yeah it's a shame men are generallly ignored :/ Not all men there are like the monsters we are usually exposed to in the media. And it's a shame cause those men and boys are too victims and need help.
TheSharpeful Women, without question, have fewer rights than men in most, if not all, third world countries. Of course the plight of men in those countries is very real too, but their women need more help than they do.
Not that it's a competition. As Sommers is fond of saying, "Men and women are in this together." Helping women helps men, too. In fact, statistics have shown that nothing else comes close to having as significant a positive impact on the living conditions of a country than the emancipation of its women.
American Enterprise Institute
I completly agree with you and i'm glad Feminists here in Germany aren't as bad yet. We also have 3rd wave feminists that focus on non-issues like most seem to in the US. But most women i know who call themself "Feminist" share the same opinions as you and are usually powerful and independet women who don't need no special treatment.
The problem is that these 3rd wave feminists are too narcissistic to focus on real problems for women in the world. They can't stand the idea that they actually have a pretty good life with lots of opportunities. So they prefer focusing on non-issues.
I still refuse to call them Feminists, but they basically hijacked the term. They're as far away from Feminism as they can be.
Thank you for such an informative article that will no doubt be completely ignored by those who should be informed but will choose to remain ignorant. Subscribed.
I must say, I don't want to detract from your message because it is very good, but I especially like your reference to abortion as "A messy democracy working out its disagreements."
Its an opinion I hold as well and it doesn't seem many people will agree to that.
Mischievous Roze "reference to abortion as "A messy democracy working out it's disagreements""
I actually kinda disagree on this. Of course the reason people still speak about it is because there's a messy democracy being messy. But outside of that, it seems to me quite clear what the better option is.
We can choose between illegal dangerous abortions or legal safer abortions. Similar to the drugs "debate", we live in a society where we can't effectively ban these things, so our choice is not "Many abortions vs few abortions". Our choice is not "everyone using drugs vs nobody using drugs".
It's not good that we have a messy democracy that takes decades" working out it's disagreements" in that time hurting countless people.
Darckense Onoda Except thats not true, we have reached a good point.
Abortion, but to a degree, and thats where it should stay.
Contrary to popular belief, there is a massive part of the pro-choice group that thinks a child can be aborted at any stage, some radicals even think a child under the age of 3 should have an abortion option similar to how we put down animals.
This is the good thing about having a conservative and progressive side to our democracy, it means most issues fall in the middle, where its more fair (for the most part).
Mischievous Roze "Contrary to popular belief, there is a massive part of the pro-choice group that thinks a child can be aborted at any stage, some radicals even think a child under the age of 3 should have an abortion option similar to how we put down animals. "
Could you source these claims?
I'll go on assuming they are true,
-I didn't say that the pro-choice wasn't also crazy (to some degree for some people in that side),
-small remark, 0 children have been aborted, they become children when they're born.
-If they think an abortion can happen at any point, what does it matter if it's legal or illegal, IF legal vs illegal has no impact on the amount of abortions, which is what I claimed (without evidence) and you appear to accept, then why would you care, regarding if it should be legal, at what stage of the pregnancy it would happen?
All abortions are terrible. Even if it's already dead and the only way to safe the mother's life, it's still not fun. Nobody (to my knowledge) is pro-abortion and thus the anti-abortion movement is utterly meaningless.
The actual debate is on legal vs illegal, good vs bad seems to only be verbal diarrhea that is thrown around for votes from the ignorant.
"This is the good thing about having a conservative and progressive side to our democracy,"
Oh sure, a 2 party system is distinctly better than a 1 party system. Though I live in the Netherlands and we pity your elections for their lack of democracy.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Representatives_(Netherlands)
We have 11 parties (and 7 independents) in power at the moment.
"it means most issues fall in the middle, where its more fair"
In the middle of the most polarized democracy I know of. There are huge gaps in the spectrum which aren't represented accordingly, both at the extremes and especially in the middle.
Darckense Onoda I had a decent response typed out by my window closed.
Just know I agree with several points you make and disagree on a few others but my main points are that I believe science should have the final say in what constitutes a human, not personal beliefs.
*"-small remark, 0 children have been aborted, they become children when they're born"*
I disagree. Children aborted in the later terms are scientifically classified as children, and it does happen.
Also, in America, murder or assault on a pregnant woman is counted as 2 crimes. Assault/murder of the woman and a second charge for the 'child' and this is at any stage of pregnancy.
A fetus is conditionally considered a child to suit opinions and this I feel is intellectually dishonest.
*"We have 11 parties (and 7 independents) in power at the moment."*
To say all of America is strictly democratic or republican is actually a mistake many countries make. Our democrats and republicans fall into a LARGE spectrum of different views, they just claim to fall under one banner or the other.
This is why one certain issues if you take 100 republicans, you'll generally get 7-8 different opinions on how things should actually work, all vastly different than the others.
Mischievous Roze " I had a decent response typed out by my window closed."
Happens to me a lot. Get on it google!
"science should have the final say in what constitutes a human, not personal beliefs."
Oh I very much agree with this. When there's science available, common sense loses it's grandeur.
"Children aborted in the later terms are scientifically classified as children, and it does happen."
I wouldn't know how to check scientific classifications. But the dictionary (oxford) for both child and baby, while not defining them as not-unborn, does greatly suggest to mean after being born.
"in America, murder or assault on a pregnant woman is counted as 2 crimes"
While this doesn't have to mean that the unborn is considered a child, it does indeed show they are valued as such.
"A fetus is conditionally considered a child to suit opinions and this I feel is intellectually dishonest."
There are those who want to consider sperm and eggs as children too. People be crazy sometimes.
"To say all of America is strictly democratic or republican is actually a mistake many countries make."
I know this is the case. But the voters don't have the choice between more than the two on election day.
As voter you can't go and vote in another district/state since you want to R/D there, rather than the R/D where you live.
"Our democrats and republicans fall into a LARGE spectrum of different views"
Which aren't voted on.
If for example you find yourself wanting to vote for the president of party A, but the local candidate of party B, your rebuttal falls apart.
I have heard of people who vote for their local candidates, but think the federal policies for that whole party are terrible.
Quite similar as to how in Britain only 1 district has the ability to vote for each potential PM, the rest votes for their local MPs, so they have to make a decision between voting for the crazy local policies or the crazy national policies.
Either way they're fucked by the first-past-the-post system.
I owe my mother a big thank you, she was a feminist since the 70's. She taught me how bad a man could have being in a relationship with a woman. My mother's ranting about how bad men are about the Patriarchy. Her constants hate speeches, her verbal emotional and PHYSICAL abuse. Her hatred for men especially my father and me, was clear The groups of women at our house, the books they read was clear she hated men more then she loved me. Now at 65 years old, she is alone, my three sisters and I have little to do with her, and she is still fighting the cause, she paid a big price for being part of a hate group. It brought us kids closer to our father. According to the latest stats 29% of men want to get married, 86% women. Out of the 29% how many losers are in that 29%, so it is less than 29%. There is a reason. Don't pay that price my mother paid. Forever MGTOW. P.S. I am one of those men who will never married.
I still kind of take issue with you saying "women are oppressed in Iran" because that carries the implication that men are not.
Being treated as valued property sucks but personally, I'd take that over "Okay, get into our army and get your head blown off so our leaders can get rich" any day of the week thank you very much.
Lord Hawkeye She did say that both women and men suffer in the middle east
Patrick Gregory
Still, men get this passing mention and then it's straight back to women women women. She's far less guilty of this than most, don't get me wrong but it's still an incredibly irritating habit people have and it needs to stop.
Lord Hawkeye I'm sure she is just as bothered by the way boys and men are treated, but you have to pick your battles and while trying to get a new wave feminist to re-evaluate their position, it's wiser to make a like for like comparison.
Clay Mann
Trust me, they won't because they're not in it out of compassion or virtue. They're in it because they want free shit and to protect their egos. That much is clear by the fact that when presented with evidence, they double down and reject. They've even thrown women under the bus whenever it worked in their favor.
Tis why people call feminism "socialism with panties" because that's all it actually is. Has nothing to do with women, it's about getting free shit and to hell with who gets hurt. That's all.
Lord Hawkeye
I'll stick to Cristina's rational message rather than some fear mongering hate message you're pushing. I think its a big mistake to group so many who are all distributed on a sliding scale from just getting into the idea of new age feminism and at the other end the full on fundamental con artists who use feminist issues to make money ad exert control over others.
If only there were more prominent feminists like you who cared more about women in places where they aren't protected and less about their first world problems.
Why not? Well to just make a guess...
1) Helping women in the Middle East would make rather clear how free American women are in comparison. This contradicts ideological feminism's tenets.
2) Helping women in the Middle East would rather show how much power American women have to be able to do that. Which again contradicts ideological feminism,
3) If we start helping Afghanistan, the millions of male corpses might be harder to ignore than the plights of American men, contradicting ideological feminism's paradigm about men.
4) Of course all that aside: what such countries need are human rights. Not women's rights. For one, everyone there needs such protection. Second, the best way to get equality, is to treat everyone the same to start with, to treat both men and women as humans. "Women's Rights" and "Men's Rights" should only EVER have a small side role in focusing on the problems of one group that gets overlooked.
There's no such thing as women's rights or men's rights, when speaking of "god-given" rights anyway. There are only Rights. They are only rights if they apply to everyone, otherwise they never were rights to start with, just discriminatory privileges.
Sorry to say, but even you... if you think there should be special protections for women - but not men - in the Middle East, then you're supporting the gender apartheid all the same.
God bless you for talking about this stuff. I remember cheering out loud when I first watched one of your videos after weeks of reading 3rd wave feminist pieces. Substantial and logical discussions on gender politics - what a breath of fresh air.
Very well done! Hopefully your vlog will open the eyes of some who have the passion for women's rights to see those who are truly violated, and will help them to get a better balance in their cry for justice and fairness.
Farghadani's imprisonment didn't have to do with her being a woman or the feminist nature of her cartoon. If a man had posted a similar cartoon about a wholly different issue (like, for example, the sheer number of men in jail because divorce laws in Iran are heavily biased in favor of women to the point that they can jail ex-husbands that they don't like), then he'd be in jail, too. It's an issue of fascism, not sexism.
+CocoaNutCakery I'm with you on this one.She attacked the establishment and the establishment pushed back.
+CocoaNutCakery would he have been raped for not agreeing with their limitations on drawing?
+CocoaNutCakery I think the point was most of the current wave feminists are too busy thinking up new red herrings where the previous generations actually gave a shit.
Sure, Farghadani's imprisonment isn't a feminist issue per se, but the point I think Dr. Sommers was trying to make is that previous generations of feminism actually DID care about more general issues
ghostbirdofprey "If that poor child of sorrow is hung, it will be deliberate, downright murder. Her death will be a far more horrible infanticide than was the killing of her child."
In case it's unclear, that's a quote from The Revolution. About a woman sentenced to death for murdering her child.
did you not hear about how its chill to "lightly beat your wife" in Pakistan for any number of ridiculous reasons such as lending money without permission, not bathing during menstruation, not wearing hijab, etc, etc, etc. yes it absolutely has to do with sexism. she would not have gotten anywhere near 12 years as a man. women have gotten arrested for not wearing a hijab on private social media accounts. there is no way you can argue that isn't sexism when men don't face anywhere near the same expectations other than maaayyybbeee relating to divorce. although the culpability tends to still be on the woman even in that case.
You know that saying 'breath of fresh air'? I've used it plenty, but never actually felt it. You are an actual breath of fresh air. Listening to you I finally feel I can breathe with confidence as a man that cares for his fellow sisters without being labelled as the patriarchy. That iranian girl's struggles is the fight we must fight with her. Thank you
BRO THATS FAX
Can this woman get her own channel? I subscribed some ages ago for more videos like this, but I got stuck with 95% of videos that were wildly off-topic.
+ablestmage FWIW, she has her own playlist within this channel. Unfortunately You Tube doesn't let you subscribe to a playlist, but you might be able to get something working from outside of You Tube webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/22056/how-do-i-subscribe-to-a-youtube-playlist
+Peter Ford Props to you =)
I 100% felt this way when I went to Cambodia and worked with women who had been sex trafficked. I've been struggling with the ideology of third wave feminism ever since.
No one will understand how much these videos mean to me. Lol thank you so much for this series, Christina! Thank you for reminding me that I'm not crazy, and to tune out my generation with it's very loud victim fetish.
its*
Your are the voice of reason. If you ever get the opportunity to be a guest speaker on PBS you really need to go. Your voice needs to be heard!
College girls: How can you pass 3 inches apart by me, this is violating my safe space, this is assault
xD
Why does Christina always reduce me to tears? Keep going Christina, you are doing the right thing
Feminism is a bad joke... The more I look into it, it seems that it ALWAYS was a bad joke.
Haxxor Soniq Yeah the Saudi Arabian women are SO much better off without feminism..????
Alice Frost Seems to me that they're neither better nor worse....
It's clear that feminism doesn't give a sh*t about them, so why would they be better off with it?
Christina Sommers, you are my hero. I don't even know how to begin to thank you for speaking the TRUTH. I have so much love in my heart for you. Please come back to UCLA so I can show you that there are women on our campus that are reasonable, and don't wish to retreat to their "safe spaces", but instead wish to show everyone how strong American women are and what resources we can provide to the rest of the world....actually it might just be me, but I would love to meet you!
Wow, finally, an actual feminist video. FINALLY.
Love it.
Actual feminism. Long sought after by a man of the mind of "equality for all".
Great !!!!! Exlent channel !!!
I lost all faith in feminism until I found your videos. I am in disbelief to find a feminist who actually backs up their claims and uses solid evidence to explain actual issues. I am so tired of this victim complex that the women of United States share. My God, bless your beautiful little soul. Finally a feminist I can actually support. Continue your fine research and please never cease to share your message! I have been trying to spread these messages to my woman peers because I constantly face them complaining about being "oppressed" and they don't believe me when I say they are not! I am going to show them your videos, hopefully it will open their eyes to the actual women's rights issues occurring around the globe.
Great video, professor Sommers, glad to see you back.
Can't believe 20 people disliked this video. I guess they simply believe that women who suffer actual oppression don't need more support then those women who are already free to live their lives the way they choose.
I have to share this video, too few people speak such words of wisdom.
Yes, yes and yes. Glad to have you back Dr.
Great !!!!! exelent channel !!!!
It's an insult beyond compare to somehow equate women's position in the west with some of the most brutal and oppressive situations that exist in other cultures....and yet they do. When challenged about the relative silence about women's status in the middle east and elsewhere, a recent feminist conference panelist response was to call this criticism "a threat." She side-stepped the issue by claiming that when people (men) bring up this obvious oppression of women in other countries and modern feminists relative silence regarding it they are really saying "we *could* do this to you.....we choose not to, but we could" and that it constitutes a "constant MRA threat." She went on to say that there's a "fatwa" against women in the west. This comparison is disgusting.
In this same talk it was suggested that even challenging the status of women in other countries is "incredibly racist" and Germaine Greer has been on record as saying much the same thing as well as the notion that assuming a woman in the middle east doesn't know what she's doing when she marks a secret ballot is "not feminist."
Here in the West however, a woman can be coerced by a dinner or slightly shiny bobble by a predatory male apparently....and that should be the subject of outrage.
How it is that the legally protected and autonomous women of the West are infantilized so vastly and the horribly oppressed and marginalized women in other countries are "given" so much agency and autonomy by these feminists is beyond me.
There is this system that permeates society, politically and economically. In this system there is some inequallity: there are rich people and poor people. Statistically a white is more likely to be rich than a person of color. Statistically an independent male is more likely to be rich than an independent female, etc. So white man could be a convenient dialectical code for rich. Although it is not always about monetary wealth: there are other inequalities in the system, i.e. some people have more privileges (social networks, respect) than other people.
Given the different inequalities in the system (i.e. rich/poor) some people are less free than other people. They lack agency and cannot choose when the rich impose their will. The poor becomes servant to the rich, and this is not a real democracy.
According to Marxist dialectic the poor people should be rebelling against the rich people. But they don't. The system promises the the poor that if they work hard and don't rebel against the system, then they can become rich. The American Dream. The poor has an individual choice not to be poor. If it becomes a collective choice and nobody is poor, then the individual poor won't be rich either. So the poor is not interested in a social revolution. It is better for him/her individually to work within the system (and, particularly in the US, social mobility is high, so there is a real change for the poor to work his/her way up in society).
In societies that praise individual achievement, the individual expectation of the poor works against the Marxist ideal of struggle of classes. Furthermore, there is very little that unites the different poor people with each other beyond the lack of monetary wealth (compared to the rich). And most poor people in the US are not starving. So the poor won't unite against the rich to bring the Marxist revolution that will provide equality for all, and therefore real freedom for all people. Marx is to discredited in the US collective psyche that it is hard to destroy the system.
There are, however, other kind of inequalities, and one of them is the average inequality between men and women. So it is important to keep pointing that these inequalities exists and that every problem is produced by the system. But we won't call this a capitalistic system anymore: let's call it Patriarchy. The patriarchy is the system that keeps male-female inequalities, such as capitalism is the system that keeps rich-poor inequalities (but they are actually the same, and this also apply to racism keeping the white-black inequalities).
Choice feminism is the idea that women can have equal opportunities than men. That a woman can choice to work, and become a CEO of a big company, or run for President. A choice feminist empowers individual women to work within the system, but she (or he) keeps perpetuating the system just as the poor who understand that by hard work he or she can eventually become rich helps to keep capitalism in place. A choice feminist will understand that women in Saudi Arabia are less free than women in the US, so a choice feminist will be more prone to help initiatives that empower women in third world countries, understanding that individual obstacles for women in the west are largely overcome.
So a choice feminist is not really a feminist according to the inter-sectional feminist. The choice feminist keeps the system. The system: the patriarchy, should be smashed. The system must be destroyed. Women's problems in the third world is a distraction. A class enemy must be propagandized: the MRA: a conspiracy to keep the male privileges and perpetuate the Patriarchy.
The individual empowerment of women in this kind of feminism is not a goal. The immediate improvement of life for women is not a goal. Those are distractions towards the ultimate goal. The goal is to destroy the system so that a different (presumptively more equal) system can rise. While this can be understood from just a gender perspective, some people believe that behind third wave feminism there is the old political Marxism, because smashing the patriarchy is just another way for bringing down the capitalistic system that keeps the poor not rebelling against the rich.
Thank you for being so reasonable and truthful, Miss Sommers!
You are a hero for real feminists!
I'm ALWAYS hyped when based mom shows up in my video list!
She's just so sensible! Why can't all feminist be as sensible as Mrs. Sommers?
When I first became a feminist I thought we would be dealing with issues like this. Boy was I mistaken!
I just want to say, welcome back Christina!! I've missed you.
solid. Something every "feminist" needs to understand. There is no rape culture in the west. When real rape counts as a way to start a marriage to a child-bride, THAT is rape culture. It is a horrific nightmare as is acid-melting the face of women who try to fight off this oppression. Western child-women who don't get this or equate their bad-feelz and withdrawing-consent to rape to the ACTUAL rape culture are doing a further indignity upon women who truly suffer and actually die, murdered, in a real rape culture
Christina, I think another important thing to mention is not just how silent a lot of 1st world feminists are about this kind of oppression of women, but how they say it's wrong for us to condemn it because it is a part of their culture and we should stop imperialistically trying to spread our cultural values. So they apply cultural relativism in any case unless it's white male cultures. Those cultures apparently are empirically bad and no relativism applies.
Too many women cry about their own problems that sometimes they become blind on the wounds of others. The only woman i respect is one that thinks rationally and logically and isnt overcome or controlled with emotions.
Who is this woman? Normally I'm disgusted by 3rd wave feminism but this woman HERE! She bears no victimhood. Instead, she brings attention to actual victims of oppresion. Thank you for this newfound appreciation of womens rights, feminists pay attention, appropriation of your efforts are greatly needed in some parts of the world; not where civil rights are already legally established.
Excellent series. Thank you.
very true words, it's a shame so few people hear them. Perhaps they could play your videos in the college hallways. The amount of people who are so concerned about 'themselves' only is sickening to me.
Thank you finally someone on the internet who is level headed and actually fight for equality not superiority
Atena Farghadani's problems are miniscule. Over here in the west, women who report a rape to the police have to worry about the horrors of the officers asking them several follow-up questions regarding the incident, rather than just saying OK and immediately throwing the guy in prison that very night like they are supposed to.
It's extremely important that we support women facing oppression in places like Iran, especially when their freedom, health, and lives may be at risk - no one can argue that. And it is true that a lot of modern-day feminists are short-sighted and exclusionary in that they only focus only on the problems that western women face. All the same, claiming that so-called 'micro-aggressions' and the subtler, more insidious forms of inequality that American women have to deal with (objectification, the wage gap, victim blaming, body-shaming) are somehow invalid because other people have it worse is as nonsensical as saying that you're not allowed to be happy because someone in the world is currently happier. It's ridiculous. All of these problems are valid problems that need to be addressed.
I would encourage campus feminists to stand for the rights of Women in the Middle East and Africa and Cambodia, etc. I think that if they realize that doing so helps their cause, then that would motivate them to continue on with it.
Thank you. Factual Feminist, intelligent, concise, and right on. Keep up the good work! P. S. I identify as a 1973 Buick Le Sabre and you will treat me accordingly.
Yes. Please keep informing sheltered people of outrages going on around the world. Not enough people know or they feel disconnected by it.
Ty for bringing real value to feminism and showing us real genuine victims as compared to first world "feminist" who think they are oppressed when really they are not. However I like to consider this an issue that shouldn't be seen as gender specific. There is an egotism which follows the current wave of modern feminism. We are comparing trespasses on human rights vs trivial nitpicking.
You really are an angel. Keep on posting these videos, my generation needs some common sense, especially today's feminists.
Why can't more people who claim to be 'feminists' be like this women? She is mature, factual, and wants equality, she is what most people who claim to be 'feminists' really need to look up to.
a safe space is like a basement. You can enlarge a basement - but you are always in a cage. And the more you fortify it the more you seperate yourself from the world and the more dependent you become. The more you rely on safe spaces the more uncomfortable you are going to feel outside of it. You are never free and you are never going to feel safe.
Someone new to roofing does not become confident on a high roof by crawling into a hole but by slowly confronting the natural fear. And the solution is not to forbid houses.
Life is never going to be safe. If you want to feel good anyway you have to slowly confront the world, become strong and resilient, not more whiny. You never lern to ride a bicycle without lifting and finally removing the training wheels. And nobody ever profitted from becoming a victim.
A wise suggestion on how modern Western feminists should revise their priorities. Excellent piece, Christina, as always.
I am the kind of person who is too scared to go out and organize for true equality in other countries, but I hope perhaps I can gather up the courage to do so, someday.
It's refreshing to hear from self-described feminists that aren't screeching man-hating bigots for once... it's not as rare as you'd think, but it's far less common than I'd like.
Still, issues like those of Atena aren't a feminist problem. It's a totalitarianism problem. Women have it worse, yes, but the power structure in those backward theocratic countries are the real source of the problem. Theocracy, not patriarchy. Can feminists help? Sure... when, as you say, they aren't trying to have laws passed requiring the signing of a contract before sexual acts take place and specifying that consent can be revoked at any point in time. That kind of stuff is just... batshit insane, and puts in my mind a possible explanation of the origin of the word 'hysterical'.
But while feminists can help in these issues, it's not a matter _for them_. It's a matter for rationalists, secular humanists, egalitarians, and on and on and anyone else with an understanding of history and anthropology and hell, even of economics, a large group which _includes_ feminists. The fight is against dictatorships propped up by a belief in an imaginary evil-doer in the sky. It's against the modern-day equivalent of pharaohs, it's against injustice blindly applied to all but those in power and their most rabid supporters.
You're not going to change things by getting one troublemaker (and that's praise, not a put-down) out of prison. You're going to change things by showing the people a better way to live, one that is so far removed from Orwellian that their governments read books instead of burning, banning, or carefully re-editing them.
Of course, I'm not going to pretend to have the answer to how to go about accomplishing that. Perhaps getting Atena out of jail is a great first step (and it should be done anyway regardless) but you can't make this about how women are treated poorly "over there", because you're going to lose sight of the real goal with such a narrowed view.
Making the world a better place is not about getting someone out of jail when they get arrested (or stopping people from being killed) for drawing a cartoon. It's about making a world where people *don't get sent to jail or killed for it in the first place*.
Like I said, I don't have a solution. Just some perspective.
This is what I've always been saying!
A modern feminist in western nations are quick to complain about the nonexistent patriarchy in America and Europe, but they immediately fall silent when concerns for concern middle eastern women are brought up, where they are truly held down by oppression where a patriarchy actually exists.
Of course, I'm immediately dismissed for being part of the patriarchy.
Brilliant analysis.
I don't know if I would have sat and listened to that Barnard graduation speech, even if I was graduating. Celebrating false rape accusers should not be tolerated
This was very insightful
Thank you for this video. It was informative and true.
dear all, i absolutely share with you the idea that oppression is very bad in some non western countries, but I wouldn't say that in America or europe oppression doesn't exist anymore. I agree that women here have lots of privileges that were not recognized until recent times, but we still have to fight against patriarchy. Saying that we don't have problems is like saying "we gave you some rights, can't you just be happy with that? what do you want more??". I'm tired of hearing what I should be happy of. If we recognize that there is something more to fight for, why should we stop? And of course one thing does not necessarily exclude the other. Why should we focus on "more important problems" and forget about the other "minor" ones? we can fight for both.
Hit the nail right on the head.
The issue with a lot of these feminists is not even simply that they're ignoring other genuinely oppressive states around the world, but that they're doing the opposite and claiming that because it can still be a struggle in certain aspects of life for women in the west, that it's equivalent.
It's the same as those claiming that 'rape is rape. It is equal' as if having your butt pinched is no different to being brutally raped and then looking for a single solution for all of them.
Women struggle, black people struggle, white people struggle, gays, straights, men, any group of people will have their own issues in life. Some more than others. But there is not a single one, in the western world, that is 'oppressed' in any way
I don't know. I think a lot of feminists would look at extreme patriarchal oppression and claim it as validating caring about microaggressions (like genital mutilation is one step removed from manspreading). Some would turn it around and claim that they're being asked to be grateful for not being routinely victimized. However, i think it makes sense to focus your resources where most needed, and acknowledge various severity. A refusal to acknowledge graduations make triage impossible.
Fanatics are dangerous regardless of the cause - I love your view on feminism because you are objective.
Would you look at that, *actual* feminism. Yknow, what feminism is *supposed* to be about. Good on you Sommers. Thanks for talking about this.
Now this is a type of feminism I can get on board with.
Another piece of logic that will fall upon Tumblr's deaf ears. You're doing something right when this happens.
I believe there is a line of thought which explains why you see people complain about their oppression here in the US (and other western countries) and seemingly ignore true oppression elsewhere.
That reason is an extremist hive-mind & empathy. I believe that many people (falsely) believe that everyone else thinks like they do & feels what they feel. (I would say that the ability to recognize that others know different things and think in different ways is an indicator of advanced intelligence. I don't know of other animals that have the ability, and it takes a while to develop in humans. I don't take it for granted and believe it is a skill that has to be practiced.) There are two effects of this that I think are important:
1. When they see others (whom they relate to) suffering, they feel the pain associated with it (empathy). Harm to one is harm to all and thus harm to self. Therefore, when there is oppression elsewhere in the world, that is oppression everywhere, and we must do something to fix their (empathic) suffering.
2. They also believe the converse, meaning that to help them (in a first world country) it necessarily must help women in truly oppressive situations because help to one is help to all.
I wanna see Christina Hoff Sommers do a hangout/ chat with Karen Staughan.
That would be so awesome.
Best video in the series
I really wish Christina had as much publicity as Anita, so many people approach debate with zero sense of perspective
Wow. It's like a time capsule from an era when the word "feminism" meant something, other than acting as the verbal form of a sign reading "Beware Of Dog".
This video triggered me. You said the word "Facebook" without my permission. I will now retreat to my safe space where I can draw in coloring books knowing that I am a strong empowered adult who can handle anything!
Factual feminist, thank you. People in the western world need to stop complaining about things like 'Catcalling' or 'Mansplaining' and focus on places where women are ACTUALLY oppressed like Saudi arabia or Uganda.
Resilience cannot be built from coddling or insularity.
The feminist that are as you describe suffer from the "I" syndrome, I want, I deserve, I need, it's all about themselves is what it boils down to.
I agree that women are very much oppressed in countries like Afghanistan, but what I don't agree with is the implication that men aren't being equally oppressed under these totalitarian regimes. I've never seen any evidence that women's suffering in this area is special to them. Child marriage is balanced by child soldiers. Imprisoned women are balanced by imprisoned men.
Great video.
I've been on this kick lately of strong words when weak words would do. I think inappropriate word usage is trivializing these sort of issues.
It would take honesty and integrity to speak out. So it is not surprising they are silent on this.
That feeling when I keep hearing about the actually bad cases of misogyny from people criticizing feminism...
This has been what I have been saying for over a year now and every time I do I get called a sexist.
Very well put article.
It is easy to be a feminist in a country where you will not be harmed for speaking out.
This lack of global focus in my compatriots is exactly why I call myself a humanist instead
It's feminists like based mom who make me (an mra sympathizer) want to reciprocate their ideals, we should not forget about the women whom are deprived of a voice instead of listening to women whose voices are louder than a nuclear blast.
I completely agree with this, but practically speaking, what could they do? What can any of us in the West do about how people in these oppressive nations behave?
Love your work! :)
Da fuq am I reading?
As someone, I believe it was Sargon of Akkad or someone similar, pointed out, feminists on campus are embedded with ethnic minorities to the point where they don't want to have that discussion. Feminism vs. Islam is a conversation that actually needs to happen and there are feminists in Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Sudan who are trying to make it happen but it's not happening in the west because to do so would be to drive a massive wedge through their concepts of intersectionality and cultural Marxism.
Interesting how the word "intersectionality" is flagged up as a misspelling, perhaps youtube's spell checker is sexist.
Years later, Iranians are protesting Mahsa Amini's death, and barely anyone in America is batting an eye :(
20 years ago I'd have called myself a male feminist. Now, a lot of what 'feminists' spout makes me rage. If only feminism was still on the same track as this video suggests that it should be. If only.
Can you please put the sources in your description? The only links are social media; the closest thing I can find is "More information" but it brings me to a broken page. I like the video but I want to read up on it as well pls!
Well said!
People like Ceara McCord and Christina Hoff Sommers are absolutely right. We must fight for the rights of all. Women and Men are suffering in other countries that are oppressive and cruel. This woman in particular is arrested for making a feminist cartoon? Absolutely ridiculous! Reminds me of the Greg Elliot case when he disagreed with a feminist. Seriously True Justice is needed, we musn't be blinded by anger or fear or sympathy we must have morality and logic, principles and fairness.
feminists just want the government as a boyfriend to CONtroll and use. Its working fellas we gotta get on this shit.