Pentax K3 Mark III MONOCHROME vs 8x10 FILM
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 21 ноя 2023
- If you like this content and want to see more of it, please consider subscribing and pushing the like button. It will help me out a lot and I really appreciate it!
Pentax K3 Mark III Monochrome amzn.to/3sea67s
Pentax K3 Mark III amzn.to/3FP6mwJ
Pentax K1 Mark II amzn.to/499RuWU
Fuji X-H2 amzn.to/3XgFVHD
Fuji X-T5 amzn.to/3ozLc0x
Fuji X-T3 amzn.to/3iB6g0I
Fuji XF 10-24mm WR amzn.to/3xAYkAP
Fuji XF 16-55mm amzn.to/3CpJMJn
Fuji XF 70-300mm amzn.to/42r1UNy
Fuji 16mm 2.8 WR amzn.to/3xBUKGO
Fuji 23mm 2.0 WR amzn.to/3Arzaq6
Fuji 35mm 2.0 WR amzn.to/3rhRU9p
Fuji 50mm 2.0 WR amzn.to/3uYW9I4
Peak Design Slide Lite Camera Strap Black amzn.to/3jofVHA
Filters:
HOYA PRO1 77mm Circular Polarizer amzn.to/3LUgZz2
PolarPro QuartzLine 77mm ND 6 stop Filter amzn.to/3JqWHvq
PolarPro QuartzLine 77mm ND 10 stop Filter amzn.to/3KtcDPc
Software:
DXO Photolab 6 www.dxo.com/dxo-photolab/
Affinity Photo affinity.serif.com/en-us/photo/
Tripods:
iFootage Gazelle Fast Bowl amzn.to/3qpBI8m
Acratech Panoramic Head. amzn.to/3ITheLU
Gitzo GT2541 amzn.to/3rYpQFT
Gitzo 1545T amzn.to/37kPvkd
Manfrotto 3021BPRO amzn.to/3pmUPtP
Sirui 7A amzn.to/3pxTel2
Oben AtAt 3535 amzn.to/37mhO1L
Camera Bags:
Tenba amzn.to/43hyMJL
F Stop Lotus 32L amzn.to/3rIj4Ew
Fisher 100% Brass Space Pen amzn.to/3arPIUR
Chamonix 45-N2 www.chamonixviewcamera.com/ca...
Intrepid Gen 5 4x5 and Gen 3 8x10 intrepidcamera.co.uk/
Rodenstock 90mm 6.8
Nikkor 135mm 5.6
Rodenstock 210mm 6.8
Nikkor 300mm 5.6
Pentax 67
Pentax 67 55mm 4.0
Pentax 67 90mm 2.8
Pentax 67 135mm 4.0 Macro
Pentax 67 200mm 4.0
As an affiliate marketer & Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. I earn a small commission on the above links if you decide to purchase the item at no additional charge to you.
__________________________________________________
www.EdwardMartins.com
If you enjoy this content and want to help support my work, you can consider purchasing a fine art print or my yearly Folio Print Set (usually available for pre-order in September) on my website, thanks!
Tonality is important, and the K3IIIM is matching film which is a tremendous accomplishment for a digital camera... BUT, I made some prints at 13x19 inches and the resolution from my quick and dirty V850 scan of the 8x10 negative is far far superior to the K3IIIM. I do think there is some room for the K3IIIM to do better, I didn't use the best lens and I was shooting at f11, so diffraction was an issue as well. But 8x10 really is the Holy Grail of photographic excellence. Having said that, the K3IIIM is the highest IQ I've ever seen out of a digital camera...
Im disapointed by the V850 compared to my b&w prints, it is less sharp and I cant obtain the same beautiful grain of the print, I would be interested to watch how do you scan your b&w negatives, tricks and stuffs
@chriscard6544 scanning is an art all by itself. 8x10 negs are the easiest, I just flop the negative down on the glass and it seems to work. 4x5 and the rest I had to calibrate. BUT, all my scanned negatives outresolve anything digital I've ever shot, so the v850 is more than capable.
You are the Pentax Monochrome guru! I've enjoyed watching all of your videos on this camera. Thank you!
This video is incredibly interesting. Even more so: the comments and your replies. I am strictly a film guy [Rolleicord and Mamiya C220] and feel like a square peg in a round hole in this world of overwhelming digital everything. What you write about wet printing is highly motivating me -- to get back to split-grade b&w printing. I have an Intrepid Compact enlarger with a custom-made glass negative carrier. I've been using Pyrocat HD with Extreme Minimal Agitation [as I learned from Steve Sherman]. Thanks for everything here. I'm feeling connected to film brethren now!
I appreciate the work you put into this. And I am really excited that the Pentax performed so well. What I’m more excited about is future black-and-white photos from the Pentax!
Thanks. Yes, me too. I am looking forward to see what it can do with a sky full of white fluffy clouds.
Ansel Adams said "I have often thought that if photography were difficult in the true sense of the term -meaning that the creation of a simple photograph would entail as much time and effort as the production of a good watercolor or etching - there would be a vast improvement in total output. The sheer ease with which we can produce a superficial image often leads to creative disaster". And that was pre-digital, of course.
I think the M11 or M11 Monochrom would give even better results, but nonetheless, I imagine you'd agree that there are still gains to be had in process and the deeper knowledge shooting film (and particularly LF) takes, as well as some of the uniqueness you can get out of the images.
The more and more I shoot and make digital photographs the less I enjoy photography. It's really starting to feel very pointless.
On the other hand, people still buy and use sailboats.... Why is that? Cleary the motorboat has proven itself much more reliable and easy, with very little skill required to use. Why would anyone want to go from point a to point b with all the hassles of having to learn how to sail? Or be at the mercy and the vagaries of the wind? Just hit the starter and off you go, no skill, or technique or even intelligence required.
Sailing and large format film photography have a lot in common, I think.
So my sense of this is, and I think you said it,- the Pentax mono excels at low light/high iso BW photography . There is a slight edge to image quality to the monochrome over color sensor BW conversion but honestly not much. On the one hand I’m intrigued but as a photographer with medium format film cameras I look at the K3 mono as 100 rolls of processed medium format film. Financially it’s either/or. Low light hasn’t really been my thing, but all this being said I’m still curious. Thanks a lot 😂
Personally I opted for the film in a Pentax 67. It's the real thing and far superior to any digital camera, unless you're needing to shoot at ISO 32,000 a lot. 🙂
Hi Edward, great video. I bought Pentax Monochrome some months ago and I love this camera. 90% my photos are black and white and now I see diference how good is new Pentax. I very like your videos. Best from Poland.
Thank you!
I've been considering the expense of converting one of my K1MII camera to monochrome. I've seen some fantastic results and this video is pushing me harder into the conversion. Great comparison.
Now that there is a native monochrome option that's affordable I personally wouldn't convert a color filter camera. The software in the camera would still be color oriented and that would take all the fun out of it for me. I don't think the conversions are all that cheap either. The k3m is a great camera and worth the money if you want a monochrome digital. Just my opinion.
@@EdwardMartinsPhotography that’s why it’s such a difficult decision. Once it’s done, there’s no turning back. But to have a full frame 36MP monochrome would be sweet. I still get great B&W conversions out of Capture One, but the temptation is there. Cheers
After watching this, I think we can conclude that Ansel would be switching to the Pentax. 🤠Personally, I liked the orange filter best. Happy Thanksgiving.
❤
Naahhh, Ansel would have the Leica Monochrome. 🙂 Ansel actually came from a rich family, so when he was younger he could do anything he wanted. Back then if you were working class, you did what you were told. (Not much different than now actually.) Blade Butcher who is a Master B&W 8x10 film photographer is now using a Monochrome converted Fuji, and who knows, now that the Pentax is out, he may have switched to it. 👍👍
@@rossb48 As with most things in life the meaning is what we bring to it. I make my prints to please me these days and if other people like them and buy them, that's great. if not, that's great too. As for AI, there will always be a difference between the real thing and a virtual fake. If anyone cares or even understands the difference is the real problem.
Great work! The darkroom could put a lot of clear water between those two captures. The Pentax Mono looks like an amazing camera to have. I used to tend towards using yellow filter in the main, with Orange as second most used, followed by red once in a while. Digital is so malleable now that there is always a surprising and beautiful treatment that lifts an image into the super-league. Great to see how enervated you are by the possibilities! More please!
Thanks!
Great review, thank you very much.
Another great breakdown of this unique camera. Thanks for putting in the work, Edward. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family. Hope those kittens don't eat too many prints.
Thanks! 🙂👍👍
Great work, lovely kittens, THX!
Thank you! They were "gifts" last March from our then semi feral back porch cat that we actually took to the vet in December and the vet said she was fixed... 🙀So it's not our fault! She's fixed now for sure, lol, and we love those guys a lot. They are 100% indoors and Mom comes in and out and is now a little skittish but very friendly. 😸😸
Amazing results Ed! There is NO ONE on RUclips doing what you're doing mate! Please keep at it! This content is great and refreshing! Cheers, Ray.
Thanks, I appreciate it!
A surprising comparison with surprising results. Really enjoying all the K3iii monochrome content. I wasn't excited about the camera when it was announced, but I didn't know enough to realize it wasn't just a gimmick.
I've looked at a few photos I've converted to black and white, and I can't get that "newspaper look" feel for them out of my head now 😂. You had mentioned that look in a previous episode. It's so true though.
Yes once you start seeing it, and see digital images without it from a monochrome sensor it's hard to not see it.
Thank you for the comparison. It's still an apples vs oranges comparison since a view camera allows all kinds of lens movements. I'm glad to know that the tonality is up there. I picked up a k3 monochrome recently but haven't had enough time to play with it. Each new tool has a learning curve.
The view camera movements affect what's in focus and what is framed, they have no bearing on tonality. It's still a black and white film vs black and white digital sensor comparison. What I found interesting is how closely the K3IIIM tones were to the film tones. Not like the B&W converted from a color sensor at all.
I am thinking a lot about purchasing pentax monochrome, but every time o go to the darkroom, i somekinde od changing my mind. I just like my RB a lot and printing out pictures 60x70 cm. I dont know. I still believe, that film gives much more smooth and naturale edges, versus digital pixles. But if the price of monochrome drops, i might go for it. Thanks for very good video. I like it.
Personally I decided to stick with film, for what that's worth. Monochrome or not, it's still just digital, and expensive for what it is.
Great test! The K3III Monochrome is something! Not sure that your cats agreed though 😂
Lol! They are so picky! I'm not sure if they are teething or what but they are chewing up paper and cardboard boxes, and the occasional photograph when they find one.
Happy thanksgiving to your family 👍🏻 but soon or later 🤣the comparison that I’m waiting … Pentax against Xt5 🙌🏻… take your time is cold out there. I’m not in a rush. Have a nice day
Thank you. The XT5 is really noisy compared to the K3 Mark III Monochrome. And the tones are off. But of course, the XT5 colors are much better... :)
You just blew my mind.
K3 looks to have more contrast & detail to me. Good work Ed.
It's the midrange that provides the contrast and detail.the color filter images get the midrange tones wrong it seems.
You are finding the words I was looking for. I've got the Mono and I love it. You said you've got the Jpegs straight out of camera, is it on custum image normal or hard? Looking forward to more of you're work!!
I shot everything with standard.
I think just the natural shot without any filters looks the best. I can get a really decent B&W with this GFX camera. I know it's not quite the same, but the dynamic range, depth, and tonality of this sensor is mind-boggling. The 100s is probably even better with B&W's but that 100mp is overkill bigtime.
When you get bored with that K3iii, get a used 50Sii or 50R, you'll fall in love with its sensor, and it'll become your main shooter! ;)
That would be an interesting test, a GFX vs the K3III monochrome. My guess is the color filter will skew the tonality just as it does in all the color filter cameras. The GFX might have more resolution, but I'd also be curious what the noise looks like at ISO 25000 in a b&w. On the k3 III M the noise at 25000 is like the noise at 1600 from a color sensor camera. Honestly they're 2 different animals and sensor size is not a factor for b&w, but that color filter is. Now a Monochrome sensor GFX would be something else entirely! 🙂👍👍
I love shooting film. I LOATHE scanning film. It's a tedious chore.
I am beginning to resent your Monochrome videos.
1. I am very jealous as I don't own one.
2. I can hear my bank account squealing in fearful anticipation of me succumbing to the Monochrome's allure😀
I too was kinda hoping it would suck and I could see it back... oh well, it's only money!
A silver vs dye print comparison would be fun to see, and the point of the whole exercise. Are you able to just contact print the 8x10, or can you enlarge?
I can enlarge up to 4x5 negatives. 8x10 is contact print only. I'm not sure that silver vs pigment prints really are applicable here. That's just testing the print qualities of the printing mediums. A pigment print on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta, sprayed with Hahnemuhle Protective Spray is probably better than a Fiber based darkroom print, or so close in quality it would be an even contest. Or to put it another way, after 40 years of making darkroom prints and fully understanding their place in history, I'm comfortable printing with my Canon printer and dry mounting, framing and selling my limited edition pigment based photographs.
This may be a stupid question.
Does a polarising filter behave differently when mounted to the K3mono?
No, it should do the same thing it does on a color sensor, just in black and white. 👍👍
I have another dilemma, if someone can explain it to me; Is scanning negative still considered as analog picture? doesn't a digitized negative become a digital photograph? Is this comparable to a wet print in darkroom?
Great questions. The way I look at it is a scanned negative printed on a digital printer is a hybrid. If the final digital print looked as bad as they do from a digital camera source, then there would be no point. But as the scanned negatives printed digitally look so much better than digital camera captured images printed digitally, there is a difference and I would call those hybrid prints. Ultimately a wet print in a darkroom done right is superior to any digital process print, it's just that there's so few people left with the skill, knowledge and facilities to "do it right" very few people even know what a proper darkroom print looks like. If all there is is McDonalds, nobody would know how good a Michelin star restaurant is. (And again, very few people actually do. But at least Michelin star restaurants still exist in some quantity, and are still the top standard.)
Curious - I didn't catch how you edited the Pentax file before printing? You stated jpegs straight out of camera, but was there in camera sharpening or other editing...
I am pretty sure the default settings make a sharpened and processed jpeg from the camera. Then I printed the image. The film scan I minimally processed as the scan are pretty raw coming off the scanner. Sharpening and basic exposure adjustments, maybe took 2 minutes.
I, for one, would like to see more monochrome video.
I will try to incorporate some for you.
Hi Ed,
Do you still feel that color converted images in post are almost equal to the images produced by the K3iiiM?
Actually no. Color converted images may be OK on their own, but when you compare them to any kind of native b&w image they fall very short of the mark. I'm at the point where I wouldn't shoot black and white on a color digital camera unless I absolutely had to.
Thank you, Ed. With the 8x10 film comparison, it seems you have evolved significantly in your assessment since making the K3iiiM, XT-5 and K-1ii comparison video 2 weeks ago. I returned my NIB K3iiiM based on those very similar images, so I may need to reconsider my decision. I appreciate all of the time and effort you are investing in these videos! :)@@EdwardMartinsPhotography
@@craig4297 Sorry about that. The street shooting seemed to create very similar images, but I didn't print any of them. (I should.) The noise at base iso's and 100% viewing on screen was really bad compared to the K3IIIM, which had virtually no noise.
I am confused by those results as well. I'll have to revisit them and see what I can make of it. I am still kind of shocked by the almost identical results from 8x10 film and the K3IIIM. However it really is a "new" to us technology and it is going to take a while before we really know what it is and what it can really do. If you can afford it, it is worth exploring in my opinion.
You should check Luigi Barbano take on Pentax KIII monochrome
I've seen his videos they are very good. Thanks.
I wonder what would happen if we could do away with the filters on color camera sensors? It seems there was a technology aiming to do that.
Sigma's Foveon was trying to do that but it seems to have created a lot of other issues. For color photography the Bayer and Xtrans filters work pretty well. For black and white not as well.
What software do you use to process the Monochrome files? Most people really don’t “get” a monochrome sensor…. amazing isn’t it!
Right now I'm using DXO Photolab only because it's easy and I just want to see what the jpegs look like. DXO doesn't read the raw files from the K3IIIM. I also have Capture One and that's what I'll probably use when I start digging into the raws. I might give Pentax's DCU5 a shot as well. A lot of people don't get B&W, period... 🙂👍👍
@@EdwardMartinsPhotography Thanks. I am not familiar with DCU5. I have Capture One. Love this stuff.. appreciate what you are sharing.
@@drwatsonismine DCU5 is Pentax's free program. Digital Camera Utility 5. It's not great but it works with the files.
@@EdwardMartinsPhotography oh. Ill look at it. Thanks.
OMG what a Dilema .....that K3 looks like found a home
Hard to argue with the results, and I don't think my credit cards can handle the Leica... (maybe all of them lumped together.)
Ansel and every other giant stressed composition and post production anyway. The medium/gear is kind of irrelevant except when you either have a. that cool lens or b. some cool post production gadget unique to your work flow, like a printer or a film scanning set up that doesn't drive you insane or cost a fortune (like drum scanning, who the hell has money for that!?!?)
The medium and gear is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to film... What digital sensor you use and what the cameras computer and your software is doing to the image is probably the most important aspect of modern photography. I prefer cameras and software that get out of the way, stay in the background, and don't screw up my images too much. Most people these days would be happy with an AI image generator built into their cameras: point it at a scene and the camera generates a "perfect" AI image for you.
Did you hear about Pentax K-1 monochrome or Nikon D850 monochrome debayered? 36 mpix and 45,7 mpix sensors which deliver 81 and 102 mpix detail equivalent of color sesnor?
Personally that wouldn't be my choice. The camera software and UI is still geared for color. The main selling point of digital is that it is easier than film. If you make it hard, just shoot film, the photographs are superior anyway. And now that Pentax has an affordable monochrome right out of the box, why bother? 26mp's is more than enough. A 102mp sensor digital camera is still far behind a 4x5 negative in terms of ultimate image quality. Or to put it another way: Clyde Butcher is shooting a monochrome digital camera now because he had a stroke and he's over 80 years old. I think it's great he's still shooting, but if he could take a miracle pill and be 20 years younger, he'd still be shooting his 8x10 and not a converted digital D850. The Japanese have a saying, "very very high tech, but so what?"
@@EdwardMartinsPhotography anyway digital monochrome is far easier to shoot than film and more versatile. Shooting converted mono camera is easy as color one. You make adjustment once and keep settings for WB and BW picture. For best quality only one additional step is required in post before editing.
One professional photographer from Canada ordered GR3 mono converted camera and was very happy with result. He also shoots 4x5 film.
@@mg-leisure-monochrome anyway I'm sure that's great for the casual snapshooter who wants to shoot some b&w... and it's still just digital.
@@EdwardMartinsPhotography casual snapshooters usually do not use mono cameras because thinking in 'monochrome mode' requires some experience and mono cameras are not cheap. It is really good thing Pentax made affordable mono camera which has its name in Pentaxians ecosystem - Kimono ;)
@@mg-leisure-monochrome I agree. My point is anyone doing fine art black and white photography is probably still using film, unless they are too old to lift the camera. I can't think of any fine art b&w photographer using digital. If you can let me know who...
If I had a 8x10" Camera, then I would never make less than 42x52" analog enlarged prints, I would make larger poster prints most of time. I have done nature photography since 1979 and I have never liked blurred water. For black & white digital photography, I prefer a normal color sensor, so I do not need to use color filters out in the field, it also gives much more freedom in post to control the grey tones of the final black & white image !
Have you used a monochrome sensor digital camera?
@ cameraprepper7938 I also like to capture the form that water takes on at different waterfalls,if at all possible.
@@EdwardMartinsPhotography I do not see the point in using monochrome sensor camera !
@@cameraprepper7938 In the final analysis, the Monochrome sensor can shoot very low noise images at very high iso. Much higher than color sensor cameras. If you don't have a use for that, then there is no point.
Next step: get endorsed by Magnum Photos and have LEICA mail you an M-11 Monochrome gratis. Maybe that was the unknown caller I ignored earlier today actually, darn...
Be nice... And what's up with Pentax sending every YT'r that uses Pentax in Britain gear? I'm not sure Ricoh USA even has a Pentax office. And no offense to Derrick James, but they need to get some other people's photos up on their website... I'd be happy to help them out. 🙂
@@EdwardMartinsPhotography As I recall before when you used Pentax you were a member of their professional services program, perhaps that's the key to getting free gear. Maybe you should sign up again?
I don't think they do that anymore. I'll give them a call after the holiday and see if they still have that program
Yeah this kinda sucks and is great both lol. I recently bought a GFX system and it sat most of the spring and summer while I shot film lol. Now my 35mm stuff was ehhh and anything I shot on the Medium Format GFX was just miles better.. I am developing all my stuff right now from this season and will compare all of my Medium Format Film stuff and I think with editing the Medium Format Film stuff can still hold up to good digital if edited good and the images are kept smaller for social media and or smaller prints.. But yeah I think its almost to that point where with the right setup the only real reason to shoot film is because we love to and we like the not always perfect look and feel that film can give us. These newer digital cameras are often just too perfect if you know what I mean. :)
I love film, but now I have a viable alternative to get the b&w shots I want that I can count on.
Eh 8 by 10 is kinda pointless to print at that size, would love to see it blown up to a0 in person and then we would really see which is better. Hope these monochrome cameras keep coming out and those prices fall a little
Darkroom printing is really the only reason to shoot film rn!
The relative tonality doesn't change with enlargement.
Fully agree. A drum scanned 8x10 film is in another league. But it is mentioned in the video. Also not sure if a inkjet print in this small size is a fair comparison. Would be more fair to use a contact print and then examine via a magnifying glass.
@@ytuberization I actually made some 13x19 inch prints and the tonality was still very comparable, but the resolution and smoothness of the 8x10 negative was as good as it gets. Not that the K3IIIM was bad, but it really is not fair to the K3IIIM to compare it to 8x10 film... 8x10 film really is the Holy Grail of image quality.
Huge prints are way overrated. After a certain size it's no longer a photograph it's decor.
I can see a difference at 13x19 inches...
Honestly - I do not see any point for this comparison. The tonality of the film? Come on - you can change it using the film and developer combination. And also - if you using you LF camera as 35mm camera - you doing something wrong...
No digital camera has ever come close to looking as good as b&w film in my experience regardless of how I have developed the film. The tones are there, but they are not in the right places. So this comparison is to see if the Monochrome sensor could do any better than color filter sensor cameras and it can.
In what way did this video imply that I was using an 8x10 as a 35mm???? The result I got from the 8x10 says I did everything right... LOL
So my sense of this is, and I think you said it,- the Pentax mono excels at low light/high iso BW photography . There is a slight edge to image quality to the monochrome over color sensor BW conversion but honestly not much. On the one hand I’m intrigued but as a photographer with medium format film cameras I look at the K3 mono as 100 rolls of processed medium format film. Financially it’s either/or. Low light hasn’t really been my thing, but all this being said I’m still curious. Thanks a lot 😂