I worked with Gary on our film "Panzer 88" for 10 years (ironically, our finance was just coming together when he contracted cancer, went into chemo, and died subsequently.) Gary truly loved Star Wars, and I think really that had he been offered the opportunity he would have loved to return to the fold and make more. Although Gary and George's falling-out was public, I covered Kershner’s wake at the DGA for the Los Angeles Times in 2010, and got to see Gary in the lobby speaking to George, who also attended. Gary made straight for him when George arrived, and they spoke pleasantly without rancor. It was a very odd and sweetly pleasing thing thing to see.
Glad to hear Lucaz & Kurtz seemed to smooth things over. I heard that Kurtz went into bankruptsy after that sci-fi independent movie with Mark Hamill and BiLL PaXton.
What a director was Irvin! He understood the drama and the characters so well! He’s 50% of this movie. RIP Irvin, you made a masterpiece of a movie that will endure the test of time!
1:34 when he talks about the "same" kind of emotional experience as ANH you can clearly see Kurtz having to withhold a smirk probably thinking "you have no idea what kind of emotional experience we have for you with this one"
This is one very educated director, talking about the collective unconscious to the masses in such an articulate and yet accessible manner. He added such depth to SW (although The Empire Strikes Back was Lucas' script too I gather) A lesson or two to learn here Disney
It was Lucas story and script. He wrote it himself and Kasdan did the filmed version based on Lucas. Leigh Brackett's script wasn't used. Despite fans trying to say Lucas had so little to do with Star Wars he actually wrote the screenplays for Episodes 1-6. Kasdan did script polish and dialog tightening on Empire and Jedi. Huyck and Katz did 30% of the dialog on Star Wars they didn't write it.
@@matthewgaudet4064 That is simply not true. If you read Brackett's script a lot of she wrote was used in the film. Lucas didn't just give her credit out of kindness. There are rules for screenplays and since the finished film uses a lot of what she wrote she gets the credit.
So as much as we can have a little fun at the interviewer's expense, it's nice to see old interviews where people are actually allowed to speak and the interviewer isn't a "personality" who is looking only for sound bites.
I agree. Regardless of what some people want to believe, some of the old ways of humans and politics are far more appealing back in the day than they are now, and I say this as an early 90’s kid.
What I like about this interview is that despite the interviewer’s somewhat banal manner and slight ignorance of the subject matter and genre, the interviewees are polite and forbearing in their answers, and are eager not to criticise and belittle but to inform and explain.
Didn't realise until the last few minutes that this is sourced from the original footage. The last few minutes are noddy shots and single shots of her asking them questions (they are gone by then).
It's sad that Lucas and Kurtz had a fallout during the making this film. Film went over budget. Bank of America refused to give any new loans. Lucas almost had to give his Star Wars rights away to Fox. Luckily Alan Ladd head of Fox did not do that and gave him the money he needed (and this PISSED off the Fox's board of directors resulting Ladd's departure). Finally George Lucas's marriage fell apart..due to the stress.
There was so much riding on this movie though. Far more than the first one. If Empire wasn't the film it was, I don't think the series would have been as successful as it has been. "Return of the Jedi" is a lackluster film compared to the previous two. It didn't generate the amount of repeat viewings and sales as the other two. That caused Lucas to sell his newly created digital effects company for less than its value. He sold it to Steve Jobs and we know it now as Pixar.
IT wasn't much of a fallout, it was really more of everyone at Lucasfilm agreeing he had to go due to the financial and production problems he was causing. Marcia Lucas stated that after the first Star Wars exploded on the scenes, Kurtz got egotistical and started to mess things up during the production of the second film and he didn't seem to care. (he almost got Yoda's final scene messed up) Howard Kazanjian had to clean up a lot of his mess. and once Jedi got green lit, he was kicked out of the studio. Even though George didn't really want to fire him or get rid of him, he ultimately had no choice.
I couldn't agree more. Gary Kurtz was a great man that made both Star Wars 1977 and The Empire Strikes Back awesome films. I love Star Wars 1977 as my all time favorite Star Wars film, The Empire Strikes Back was an excellent Star Wars film, and The Empire Strikes Back from 1980 will always be the last great Star Wars film ever produced by Gary Kurtz. Star Wars was never the same when Gary Kurtz left the franchise in 1980, Gary Kurtz along with George Carlin are both my all time favorites, and Gary Kurtz leaving Star Wars after 1980 proved my point that the late great George Carlin was right that the public sucks now in 2024.
Gary "Lincoln" Kurtz! I expect him any time now to stand up and recite the Gettysburg Address... That, or conduct an orchestra with a lightsaber prop (left from from The Empire Strikes Back) as a baton!
How different would have one of the prequels have been if it had been made earlier with Kershner directing and Kazanjian producing. With practical effects and locations, co-written by Larry Kasdan. Would it have been better than Disney Star Wars.
There's no way she saw the movie before this interview. She saw that picture at the end of the video of Luke riding the Tauntaun, got its name and made up a question about it.
I wish I could get what Irvin means when he talking about the realm of incounscious, the elements of prehistory, the extralogical... I feel like he really drop dîmes on this passage but can’t understand one thing he’s saying. And its not like I didnt try hard to figure out 😂😂😂
You can tell that the interviewer has no clue about the movie. She calls the tauntauns “Tauntaun”, as if it were one character. I think that may be what Kersh was laughing about.
@@xo4812 spelling beautifully it’s the truth they didn’t have a good career after Star Wars and there’s nothing wrong with that just shows the genius of George Lucas
I can just imagine after she tore off her microphone at the end muttering under her breath; "Barbara Walters is interviewing Castro while I'm talking about tauntauns with these geek assholes...I'm going to my trailer! "
@@fightingirish5755 clue to the Clueless asskissing fan, George Lucas CHOSE Irvin KERCHNER because HE WAS HIS FILM SCHOOL INSTRUCTOR! ergo sh# tons smarter than him and taught Lucas his craft in which Lucas is just a student constantly juggling things to look like an expert magician but he's not good at scripts nor directing, just concept & overall producing managing & getting people BETTER than him to accomplish his ideas. Mistake selling to Disney losing power control.
@@klyanadkmorr According to your logic Einstein's teachers were smarter than him because they taught him when he was a young man lol. Word to the wise just because Kershner might've been better than him at some things doesn't mean he was BETTER period or anyone else. Let's not forget he also directed the offshoot Bond film Never say Never and Robocop 2. Films which nobody really gives a shit about.
Comparing directing crap concepts to make them palatable to making a great idea into a epic classic is a sad debate method to say Kershner as a director is not good when it proves my point he was a masterful director and instructor able to eleveate the basic & good to okay & epic. And Lucas ONLY became great due to his teachings but used others to help make his masterpieces. Also Einstein had no real verifiable known epic scholar instructors and he created his theory while working in a patent office not as a research college grad under someone NobelPrize level. You arguments are baseless compared to what George Lucas publicly openly admits that thus supports to my points.
To make one of the best movies of the 20 century is very humble, my love to you ♥️♥️♥️
I love listening to Irvin Kershner. He is very insightful on the human condition and creative story telling
same
And he made one of the best directed movies ever. Not bad
The Empire Strikes Back, the GREATEST Star Wars movie, now and until the end of time!!
*Revenge of the Sith
I worked with Gary on our film "Panzer 88" for 10 years (ironically, our finance was just coming together when he contracted cancer, went into chemo, and died subsequently.) Gary truly loved Star Wars, and I think really that had he been offered the opportunity he would have loved to return to the fold and make more.
Although Gary and George's falling-out was public, I covered Kershner’s wake at the DGA for the Los Angeles Times in 2010, and got to see Gary in the lobby speaking to George, who also attended. Gary made straight for him when George arrived, and they spoke pleasantly without rancor. It was a very odd and sweetly pleasing thing thing to see.
Glad to hear Lucaz & Kurtz seemed to smooth things over.
I heard that Kurtz went into bankruptsy after that sci-fi independent movie with Mark Hamill and BiLL PaXton.
RIP to both these talented gentlemen.
I am envious of the universe where they came back for Return of the Jedi
You don't hear modern directors talk like Kershner anymore.
This interview is so satisfying because Kershner and Kurtz are just smart, creative, insightful human beings.
Gary Kurtz looks like Abe Lincoln
He's a Quaker.
He's not really a Quaker, but that beard makes him look like it. He is a Marine, though.
Rest in peace Gary Kurtz
@@GrandJediMaster7860 And Irvin Kershner
Came to the comments to say this.
What a director was Irvin! He understood the drama and the characters so well! He’s 50% of this movie. RIP Irvin, you made a masterpiece of a movie that will endure the test of time!
1:34 when he talks about the "same" kind of emotional experience as ANH you can clearly see Kurtz having to withhold a smirk probably thinking "you have no idea what kind of emotional experience we have for you with this one"
Right? And the cliffhanger that was Empires ending, imagining having to wait THREE long years for closure 😂
This is one very educated director, talking about the collective unconscious to the masses in such an articulate and yet accessible manner. He added such depth to SW (although The Empire Strikes Back was Lucas' script too I gather) A lesson or two to learn here Disney
Lucas gets the "Story by" credit, but not a screenwriter credit.
It was Lucas story and script. He wrote it himself and Kasdan did the filmed version based on Lucas. Leigh Brackett's script wasn't used. Despite fans trying to say Lucas had so little to do with Star Wars he actually wrote the screenplays for Episodes 1-6. Kasdan did script polish and dialog tightening on Empire and Jedi. Huyck and Katz did 30% of the dialog on Star Wars they didn't write it.
@@matthewgaudet4064 That is simply not true. If you read Brackett's script a lot of she wrote was used in the film. Lucas didn't just give her credit out of kindness. There are rules for screenplays and since the finished film uses a lot of what she wrote she gets the credit.
So as much as we can have a little fun at the interviewer's expense, it's nice to see old interviews where people are actually allowed to speak and the interviewer isn't a "personality" who is looking only for sound bites.
I agree. Regardless of what some people want to believe, some of the old ways of humans and politics are far more appealing back in the day than they are now, and I say this as an early 90’s kid.
What I like about this interview is that despite the interviewer’s somewhat banal manner and slight ignorance of the subject matter and genre, the interviewees are polite and forbearing in their answers, and are eager not to criticise and belittle but to inform and explain.
One of the greatest movies ever made and the #1 Sequel of all time.
This is the best interview. I like Tauntaun. Rest In Peace you giants among men.
Didn't realise until the last few minutes that this is sourced from the original footage. The last few minutes are noddy shots and single shots of her asking them questions (they are gone by then).
Irvin Kirshner is a sharp guy
The closeups of the interviewer doing questions and reactions (laughing at nothing!) at the end is hypnotic
At 6:40 Kershner has a good message about fans and expectations. Very interesting.
My favorite part for sure.
Greatest movie of all time
Revenge of the Sith yes
@@jeanmarc0 hahahaha you're silly. Not even close
@@mws755
So your opinion sucks .
I love that back drop
It's sad that Lucas and Kurtz had a fallout during the making this film. Film went over budget. Bank of America refused to give any new loans. Lucas almost had to give his Star Wars rights away to Fox. Luckily Alan Ladd head of Fox did not do that and gave him the money he needed (and this PISSED off the Fox's board of directors resulting Ladd's departure). Finally George Lucas's marriage fell apart..due to the stress.
cripplehawk
George Lucas's marriage fell a part because the wife cheated on him.
Bubo 25
Where did you hear that nonsense?
There was so much riding on this movie though. Far more than the first one. If Empire wasn't the film it was, I don't think the series would have been as successful as it has been. "Return of the Jedi" is a lackluster film compared to the previous two. It didn't generate the amount of repeat viewings and sales as the other two.
That caused Lucas to sell his newly created digital effects company for less than its value. He sold it to Steve Jobs and we know it now as Pixar.
Apparently his wife liked steak whereas George ate only salads
IT wasn't much of a fallout, it was really more of everyone at Lucasfilm agreeing he had to go due to the financial and production problems he was causing.
Marcia Lucas stated that after the first Star Wars exploded on the scenes, Kurtz got egotistical and started to mess things up during the production of the second film and he didn't seem to care. (he almost got Yoda's final scene messed up)
Howard Kazanjian had to clean up a lot of his mess. and once Jedi got green lit, he was kicked out of the studio. Even though George didn't really want to fire him or get rid of him, he ultimately had no choice.
Star Wars was never the same without Gary
I couldn't agree more. Gary Kurtz was a great man that made both Star Wars 1977 and The Empire Strikes Back awesome films. I love Star Wars 1977 as my all time favorite Star Wars film, The Empire Strikes Back was an excellent Star Wars film, and The Empire Strikes Back from 1980 will always be the last great Star Wars film ever produced by Gary Kurtz. Star Wars was never the same when Gary Kurtz left the franchise in 1980, Gary Kurtz along with George Carlin are both my all time favorites, and Gary Kurtz leaving Star Wars after 1980 proved my point that the late great George Carlin was right that the public sucks now in 2024.
I was totally fascinated by Tauntaun
He’s my favorite character.
7:40
Kershner laying down the law on SUBVERTING EXPECTATIONS!
Lexington SteeL wish game of thrones s8 writers could’ve spoken to him before they fucking demolished the best show on earth
Thank you for freeing us.
That's so true of all art! You never know what might become popular. That is why everything should be preserved so carefully!
Insightful and educational comments expressed. Excellent video. Thank you!
Who else is just sad watching this and thinking of how we have RJ and KK? So depressing.
Gary "Lincoln" Kurtz!
I expect him any time now to stand up and recite the Gettysburg Address...
That, or conduct an orchestra with a lightsaber prop (left from from The Empire Strikes Back) as a baton!
TRUTH
How different would have one of the prequels have been if it had been made earlier with Kershner directing and Kazanjian producing. With practical effects and locations, co-written by Larry Kasdan. Would it have been better than Disney Star Wars.
Wow, Gary Kurtzman has done no wrong. Freed the slaves of the South *and* helped create the Star Wars trilogy.
"Does TAUNTAUN taste like chicken?"
0:01 That's no moon!
But jokes aside; Interesting interview. Never seen it before. Thanks =)
R.I.P and respect to these two men that crafted the best Star Wars movie that there ever will be.
Revenge of the Sith is the best Star Wars movie ever made
Tauntaun’s do exist!
You just gotta go deep enough that into the Antarctic regions!
:-)
Her hair looks like one of Lex Luthor’s wigs😁
There's no way she saw the movie before this interview. She saw that picture at the end of the video of Luke riding the Tauntaun, got its name and made up a question about it.
Interviewer: I was totally fascinated by Tauntaun!"
Also interviewer: ok, now get a shot of the... uh... animal.
I keep laughing every time she calls the monster "Tauntaun" unaware that its a species. Thats probably why they were laughing at the lady
George Supervised approved scripts done by Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan) to bring his genius into fruition
He’s was laughing because he was PLEASED at the question, weren’t you listening?
I wish I could get what Irvin means when he talking about the realm of incounscious, the elements of prehistory, the extralogical... I feel like he really drop dîmes on this passage but can’t understand one thing he’s saying. And its not like I didnt try hard to figure out 😂😂😂
You can tell that the interviewer has no clue about the movie. She calls the tauntauns “Tauntaun”, as if it were one character. I think that may be what Kersh was laughing about.
Bet George would like to digitally remove these 2 men who actually new how to turn good ideas into a classic film
Lol there nothing without George which explains there other work
@@DayTripperrr Wrong
@@xo4812 so correct there’s a reason why no one talks about there other work because without George Lucas there nothing
The Kingslayer don't be an idiot and learn to spell. Those two guys had thriving careers. Stop trolling, you're no good at it.
@@xo4812 spelling beautifully it’s the truth they didn’t have a good career after Star Wars and there’s nothing wrong with that just shows the genius of George Lucas
8:13 when schizophrenia hits.
I can just imagine after she tore off her microphone at the end muttering under her breath; "Barbara Walters is interviewing Castro while I'm talking about tauntauns with these geek assholes...I'm going to my trailer! "
Irvin sounds so much more intelligent than George Lucas
Just more articulate. That doesn't necessarily mean he's more intelligent. Some people are better at talking than others.
Because he was
@@fightingirish5755 clue to the Clueless asskissing fan, George Lucas CHOSE Irvin KERCHNER because HE WAS HIS FILM SCHOOL INSTRUCTOR! ergo sh# tons smarter than him and taught Lucas his craft in which Lucas is just a student constantly juggling things to look like an expert magician but he's not good at scripts nor directing, just concept & overall producing managing & getting people BETTER than him to accomplish his ideas. Mistake selling to Disney losing power control.
@@klyanadkmorr According to your logic Einstein's teachers were smarter than him because they taught him when he was a young man lol. Word to the wise just because Kershner might've been better than him at some things doesn't mean he was BETTER period or anyone else. Let's not forget he also directed the offshoot Bond film Never say Never and Robocop 2. Films which nobody really gives a shit about.
Comparing directing crap concepts to make them palatable to making a great idea into a epic classic is a sad debate method to say Kershner as a director is not good when it proves my point he was a masterful director and instructor able to eleveate the basic & good to okay & epic. And Lucas ONLY became great due to his teachings but used others to help make his masterpieces. Also Einstein had no real verifiable known epic scholar instructors and he created his theory while working in a patent office not as a research college grad under someone NobelPrize level. You arguments are baseless compared to what George Lucas publicly openly admits that thus supports to my points.
These guys were filmmakers, unlike George.
I guess you didn't bother to watch American Graffiti or THX1138
Gary isn't a filmaker
Oh shut up, Kirshner himself admitted it sometimes was too much and needed George's help
George Lucas is a visionnary film maker .