I have OCD and have been afraid of chemical ingredients and cosmetic products for years. In my opinion, the target audience of marketing techniques like Clean Beauty is people like me, for whom they can easily arouse fear. Thanks to your videos, I stopped being afraid and constantly on the lookout for "chemical hazards".
That's very true, I'm not yet able to receive any sort of diagnosis (for anything) but I experience a lot of paranoia and anxiety, it's mostly related to people and germs, but when I used to watch documentaries like this they really scared me.. I hate that clean beauty is preying on people with mental health issues, even if they may not realize it. I'm super grateful for people like Michelle spreading correct and accurate information!
@lily If it makes you feel any better, as long as you aren't doing lines of it or purposely trying to huff it, you should be fine. Even then, whatever health problem you could experience would be more related to you having inhaled a large amount of fine powder.
I too have ocd and ever since I watched the documentry, I literally haven’t been able to do my makeup and have to skip over half of my makeup routine :(
I own an asbestos consulting firm in New York US for 22 years and I am very impressed with your video. My only comment is that some of your graphics, especially the risk and dose ones, could be up for longer than just a few seconds. The asbestos industry is very much about liability much more than public safety, at least in New York. Thank you for explaining the risks in easy to understand points. I love your channel!
I have meso from asbestos in make up. From New York. Please try to explain to my why something that is supposed to make me feel good, will kill me? I am in the process of litigation now. It’s a disgrace and the companies have known for decades. Why not so much fuss made? We die. And quickly. I couldn’t watch to the end of this video. I have chemo today and I’m just shocked to have the piss taken out of me for something that will kill me. And is real. Please help fund for a cure. Then you can all feel it’s ok to put asbestos in talc based products now. Anyway. I need to get ready to be poisoned to try to live.
@@noodlepoodlegirl - When I watch youtube (on my PC), I always have one hand resting on the keyboard. thumb on the table. Index finger on the space bar. Middle & ring fingers on the < > keys. Pinky finger on the backwards arrow key. It's very ideal. Plus my index finger is then right beside the M-key, too. Pause, frame-by-frame, backwards 5 seconds, mute. Also while the space bar is held down, the video plays in 2x speed, which is such an awesome update.
They have ads for clean beauty apps in their documentary? Clean Beauty brands use talc too, because it's considered a natural ingredient. How hypocritical of them. I saw an ad for that documentary and I knew something about it is suspicious. Thanks for talking about this!
I jumped on the “clean beauty” wagon years ago when I was trying to get pregnant. I’m so glad that people who are knowledgeable professionals like you are debunking this false narrative. Thank you so much!
@@kagitsune I also jumped on the band wagon of clean beauty some years ago, ended up reading the labels and ingredients on everything that I was buying. There was a particular website that also had an online shop and I was reading lots and lots of articles on this site. For me the first warning sign was when the lead writer answered a question about palm oil in various products and gave me the impression that while they were advocating for the holistic approach of clean beauty, they did not really care about palm oil plantations and their negative effect on the ecosystem. Then there were some comments and an article that seemed to me to be on the anti-vaccine territory. Eventually my enthusiasm faded, because I realized how one-sided these articles can be and how easily they can be misinterpreted by uninformed or misinformed people. I am not going to pretend that I wasn't left with some good things from those months: perhaps I became a more informed buyer, I try to buy products free of animal cruelty and I understand that just because something is natural it doesn't automatically mean that it is better.
So glad you're talking about this! I watched the doc but found it annoyingly reductive and slick... felt like an advertisement in parts, itself. Leaned a bit too heavy on the "pop science!" doc side where I prefer those with more even keel tone and spread of talking heads. All docs have bias but this one was pretty egregious, re: fear-mongering/sensationalism to drive views/HBO Max subscriptions.
Yeah I felt like this one was a bit heavy-handed with the persuasive techniques! But it was definitely effective - I found myself wanting to believe a lot of the time, even though I knew there was better evidence, and some things like the completely one-sided roster of experts wasn't entirely obvious to me until I listed them all in a spreadsheet :|
I'm a guy who doesn't wear makeup, but this kind of purposefully slanted documentary makes me angry. Thank you for covering it and shedding some light. I hope this video gets shared with likely viewers of the doc who are vulnerable to the shenanigans.
@Trinity M I know it might have gone way over your head, but I think he was trying to emphasize how the bulk of the "documentary" doesn't really apply to him, but misinformation is an evil in general.
@Trinity M Considering what she said in the video about how many men are actually at risk for this cancer and asbestos I think that it makes sense that he points out that he’s a man that doesn’t wear make up because asbestos puts everyone at risk, not just women or people who wear make up
@@Givebackthescarf - I do agree. Was rather unnecessary lol (which is fine enough, just something I also thought was interesting). Guys very often feel the need to add these details, to make sure people know that they're not doing the un-masculine thing in question ("un-masculine" for the particular society and time in question). I used to do it a lot without even thinking about it, and then when I realised, I would question why I feel the need to clarify such information about myself. Usually it's unnecessary and I take it out. Also often really reinforces weird gender-norms in society (intentionally or not). Not to delve TOO deep into something that has nothing to do with the larger point he was making lol. I did like the comment.
I was really concerned when i heard about the 'link' between overian cancer and talc, because my mom died from that type of cancer. I was thinking of replacing my makeup products with ones that don't contain it, which would lead to money going to waste for no reason. I remember watching girls on tiktok throwing away their expensive makeup products after watching this documentary. It's truly shameful that they manipulated the audience that way, because fear is one of the greatest motivator for us humans. Thank you for that video!
I'm so glad you're covering this..please do the rest of the series 🍿 We need better regulation of the beauty industry but we also don't need fear mongering bc that actually makes it harder to make good laws
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience I'd argue that's because all they actually want is to make money. Money from a sensationalist doco one one level, but also what are the connections to those clean beauty apps? Or clean beauty brands? Maybe I'm just cynical, but everything about or economic system suggests that profit is almost always the motive so I doubt it.
My biggest tip for documentary-watching is to keep in mind the “troubling trio,” which is used for detecting questionable research practices in science but can also be useful anytime you’re digesting information. Watch out for: 1) low statistical power: in documentaries this mainly shows up as a small sample size. If there are only 2 main cases it’s following and they don’t provide rates of mesothelioma from makeup exposure that are generalizable to the whole population, ask yourself why. 2) a surprising result: does the documentary outline an elaborate conspiracy that seems too crazy to be true? It probably is. This documentary and Seaspiracy come to mind off the top of my head. 3) low statistical significance: in documentary-watching, check for a lack of citations, and if you’re already feeling skeptical, check up on the citations they do provide. Look to see if any of those citations are scholarly sources and if they provide significance levels. If there are no scholarly sources or no citations or no experts of the right kind/experts who disagree that are displayed in the documentary, that’s a red flag. Stay skeptical :)
Thank you so much for this. Knowing how to educate ourselves is just as important as education itself. There is so much fear mongering, misinformation and intensive marketing that as consumers we have no idea what to believe. I am so glad that today’s consumers are more educated than ever and we need learning.
What drives me nuts is that these "documentaries" get funding and a platform by companies like Netflix and HBO. It lends so much credibility to these things and gives them an audience that's so much bigger than it otherwise would have been.
Netflix and HBO are entertainment companies, so they platform shows for that value. Somewhere along the way documentaries were confused with muck racking or true telling. That'd not what they are for. They exist to give a certain perspective, so they are always slanted. A documentary shown on PBS is no less likely to be slanted than one Netflix, depending on the topic, of course. I do think PBS would have done a better job at this topic by at least seeking differing opinions But please trust they have other ways to ensure the creators' pov is central.
If I may give my two cents... any film, series or documentary can get government funding and investors. The subject doesn't really matter, because the government's goal is to help create local jobs and develop the local industry, and investor's goal is to get a profit. Meaning, none of the investors are looking into what is talked about in the project, that's for the filmmakers to do.
i'm late to this video, but i searched up while having an anxiety attack over me using airspun for a year. i had watched the hbo show earlier this year and it did not leave my mind all this year thinking i was at risk for cancer even though i just started using makeup a year ago. however, you do not know the immense relief your video gave me. i really thought i was at major risk for lung cancer for using this product. please continue to do videos like these to better inform the millions of people like myself who have been misguided and have irrational fear to many products due to misinformation. much love and take care!
I really value this. I took the information from the documentary at face value, and it's really eye opening for me to really sit and consider the ways in which I need to fact check and be informed of biases. I didn't throw away products, but I could also see the sneaky way that they tried to infer that clean beauty was going to be the answer to all of this which is...still marketing and pushing an agenda.
As a fellow chemist and molecular biologist, thank you. This whole narrative is absolutely mind-boggling. Alas, we see that in a host of different contexts. "Experts" with no actual expertise for health outcomes and lawyers all too eager to hit the motherlode with scare stories. And alas, all too easy in the US, where convincing a jury can be much easier than convincing peer review...
Any time I see a documentary about health and it only includes one doctor I get suspicious (since doctors tend to have different views). When a documentary about health doesn't have a single doctor or health scientist theres a big red flag
My grandmother has used talc powder since she was a youth. I wouldn't say she is the beacon of health, but talc use hasn't been part of her health issues.
Your argument for presenting science correctly is solid. Only, it seems talc isn't necessary at all - in baby powder or cosmetics. Asbestos isn't necessary anymore, either. You can do both - trust science and be skeptical of documentaries, and still don't use talc anyway.
Thank you for this Michelle. My sister is all about that "au natural" life. She eats up green washing and clean beauty (Everything is killing you!). It drives me nuts but I send her your videos and I think we're slowly making a difference! 🙏😎🤜🏻🤛🏻
I’ll bet that those clean beauty apps mentioned towards the end had some kind of a stake in the funding of the documentary👀 Excellent video! Your channel has helped me demystify and lessen my anxiety about stuff in cosmetic products🥰
These asshats had my poor mom absolutely convinced that she was going to die from ovarian cancer. When I texted her that 2020 paper to set her mind at ease, she was like, "How about I just believe you and stop worrying about it?"😆
I really hate the whole aspect of clean beauty that leads to self-blame for conditions that have huge genetic components/other contributors that are hugely out of the individual's control, it's very medieval 😒
I was about to watch this yesterday, I kid you not. I decided against it because I was I was all, "This is probably going to be like the sunscreen-benzene scare." Sounds like my concerns were well founded. No surprise. I thank you for making this video, and I appreciate your thoughtful, science-based commentary. Always on-point.
I was waiting for somebody in the science beauty space to talk about this! I watched a little bit of the series and had to turn it off because it just felt off and incredibly biased to get people to fear everything and buy “clean” or whatever. Great video as usual!
I have found your videos and I can't stop watching them. There was a time when I went with whatever the headlines were. Your easy to understand and logic based breakdowns of complex topics is inspiring. I'm a 41year old mother of two girls, who wants to be able to teach them how to sift through the mountain of misinformation out there and find the truth. Thank you for helping me do that.
Well done! I am a big fan of science. Huge! I work in Finance and we have a saying, if you cannot identify the product, you are the product. A lawyer as an expert is suss at best and purposely mis-leading at worst. Everyone is looking to be the next Erin Brokovich!
I have actually been to a Talk with Erin brokovich and ended up leaving early because she was pushing this "i didnt have to be an expert to know sth was wrong" narrative. Sounded less Like environmental advocazy and more Like self-Help. Im super impressed with what she managed to do, but to completely Discount the need for scientific backing in a world that already pretends that climate science isnt a Thing seems more damaging to me than helpful
Episodes like this is exactly why I'm a loyal subscriber. Your intro to this video was hilarious and shows the importance of knowing your sources at the same time. Soooo well done! I'm not even finished watching, but I just had to comment and give you some love for your amazing work. Thank you, Michelle!
Love that you are doing this series. There is so much fear mongering out there and it's amazing to have actual (unbiased) experts talking about the issues.
One day my sister came to me and said something like "If you are going to buy this sh*tty makeup, you may as well just not buy anything. That's poison." And then gave me a sermon about more natural alternatives. She was so rude and I couldn't get her to question her own standpoint. I'll just show her this video and hope she starts being more critical when choosing her sources.
omg thank you so much for doing this!!! i have been one of those people eating up all the articles telling me that all my household cosmetics, body care, and cleaners are killing me. I have been so frightened. would love to hear your take on bath and body works candles and body care. I have always loved their products and they are such a huge company with such a huge audience. i have been terrified of using their products since all this “clean beauty” “dirty ingredients” stuff started!
I KNEW IT! I had suspicions about the documentary the whole time I was watching that episode and ESPECIALLY when they plugged specific ~clean beauty~ apps at the end. The conspiracy that episode was trying to outline seemed like it was really disproportionate when you weigh the PR/harm the companies would be doing with the profits they gain specifically from using talc. Companies sometimes do elaborate, almost comically cruel things, yes. Maybe even often. But those things are usually simple and highly profitable. J&J and the other companies mentioned were all HUGE brands that sold a ton of different products, there was no way it would be MORE convenient for them to keep giving people asbestos products than it would be to use cornstarch-based talc alternatives, especially since the government subsidizes corn farming. I got so sketched out by that series I knew they were being sensationalist at best and dishonest at worst. Never forget that the “clean beauty” industry is worth billions too. Somebody has an interest in you using those apps to tell you what products to buy.
Thank you for pointing out ways of critically thinking about the information given in any documentary. It's important to think about the qualifications of the people giving us information and what that may say about their motivation for giving the information to us. Keep up the good work on videos that debunk beauty myths!
Seriously, thank you for this. It is really important work you are doing to educate the consumer against predatory behaviours masked as concerns for our safety.
I'm so glad you're covering this (haven't even watched the video yet) cause I saw the title of the doc and just KNEW it would be laced with propaganda and fear-mongering
I can’t wait to see the episode on skincare. There was so much wrong with that episode. So many conclusions jumped to, assumptions made. It’s maddening because all the skincare groups and forums went alight with new freak outs about fragrance and hormone distribution.
It's interesting reading some of these comments with words such as "fear mongering" and such. I never paid much attention to ingredients in my makeup products and wasn't really knowledgeable about talc and asbestos. It wasn't until my mom was recently diagnosed with mesothelioma in Dec. 2023 that my family and I were absolutely dumbfounded. We couldn't find any link as to how this could be possible. The only thing we have concluced is that she's been using powder foundation, blush, mascara all from Lancome which all contain talc for the past 20+ years. It's so easy to say "it'll never happen to me" or documentaries like this are "invoking fear." Our lives are now completely shattered as we have no idea how long we have left with her. I just encourage you all to maybe truly think twice about what's in your cosmetics. Talc is so unnecessary.
As mentioned in the video, asbestos is an incredibly common building material and in brake pad dust - it would be incredibly unusual if your mum had gotten more asbestos exposure from makeup than from those.
thank you for talking about this! I watched this doc two weeks ago and the entire thing felt so...off. from the lack of relevant expertise to those three websites/apps shown at the end of each episode. watching your vids brings me a lot of peace of mind (and reminds me to assess all the info I get from the media more critically). I'm tired of all the fear-mongering when it comes to food/makeup especially.
When you mention the “dose that makes the poison “, my question is - I understand that scientists are making products that are safe to use on their own , but most people don’t use just one product. By the time you shower, Skincare, makeup, deodorant, hair care, perfume, spf etc it’s closer to 20-30 products. At those amounts will an ingredient that technically is safe be treading into unsafe territory if it’s applied x30 in one day. I would love to see studies done on what chemical load people are getting after a beginning to end routine. I think that’s where some of the fear comes from it’s not just one product it’s many layers. I was a clean Beauty freak but it began breaking me out so I’m back to regular products…but I still wonder what those products are doing once absorbed into my skin.
Suuuch a great video. You make good arguments. Absolutely documentaries are not science, and honestly sometimes they cherry-pick data on purpose. It's so frustrating!
So so happy to see this video. When everyone started talking about talc concerns again, I promised I wouldn’t give my input until you posted about it. Thank you 👏🏼
13:16 I feel like the baby powder subject is p important to talk about, considering that it has many uses and people (like me) still have pre-2023 talc-based J&J in their houses. It was actually thanks to the (albeit fearmonger-y) docs that I had stopped using it, as my family is very prone to cancer. I'm talking skin, colon, brain, testicular, lung, and multiple lymphoma cases. So while it might not be on the market, its still important to discuss, like how we still often talk about lead paint and asbestos insulation.
Love your clear logic!! One would think they consult industry experts including scientists before they air the stuff, but that means they'll cancel themselves so ...
I was impressed at how biased this documentary is and seemed to be full of superficial information. Thank you for this video, the other episodes are just as bad as the first one.
I have a problem with misleading documentaries that use manipulative tactics to get the audience riled up even when/if they're actually tackling an important subject that I happen to agree needs to be more properly addressed, because if you're being shady and inaccurate even while trying to raise valid concerns, you're only making "your side" more easily dismissed, and can cause more harm to your cause than the shady tactics help, if that makes sense. I feel strongly that if your evidence is solid, it can and should stand up to scrutiny, so let the experts present their best cases on both sides. I also find this a more effective persuasion tool than a clearly biased, one sided account. But then I come from an empirical science background (not STEM hardness, but same principles apply), so I am used to and expect to have theories and hypotheses tested, retested, studies replicated (or fail to) and methods and conclusions argued about for extended periods of time, and no single study being the be-all end-all of any such debate, let alone a handful of anecdotes.
There was a lot of asbestos in kindergartens, schools and general workplaces and now found as insulation in homes. There’s extremely high standards of getting rid of of it and removing it and dumping it is strictly controlled and it is supposed to be wrapped thought, PPE, every measurement possible. It’s horrific that asbestos is treated so lightly.
When I saw a trailer for this documentary, I immediately hoped you'd make a response. It seemed to me like it would be touching on some really important issues relating to medical bias/inequality of access, particularly for people of colour. But at the same time, alarm bells were going off around the clean beauty rhetoric. So yeah, really glad to have you here to explain the good and bad points! Thank you!
Thank you! I thought about what you would say to me the whole time I was watching the docuseries! I will admit, I almost threw everything away but then I thought, what would LMBS do. Thank you for making this video!
I purposely didn’t watch this documentary because I could tell it was all fear mongering. Just the fact that people on TikTok were throwing out mass amounts of makeup because of this documentary was a big red flag 🚩 to me. Glad you made this video to show the biases in this documentary. Confirmed I made the right choice not watching it.
oh man I’m SOOO happy to see this one! I think it’s from my parents but asbestos is like one of my biggest fears in general (hello popcorn ceiling). Can’t wait to hear your information
Thank you for making this. Asbestos freaks me out prior to watching and I then naively watched the documentary. I didn’t throw out my makeup but I was considering it.
Michelle, thanks so much. My Mom is one of those people who fears for her life from talc in makeup. I'm so happy to share these facts with her and hopefully quell her fears. We're a very science based family, so you'd think she did her research, but she probably just heard about the lawsuit instead. Thanks for stating facts and busting some myths. Love you!
That's why I don't use loose powder makeup, even though it looks nice. I know it gets into your lungs and that can't be good. Using pressed powder should lessen exposure, or hold your breath when you apply it and step out of the room until it dissipates.
Speaking of talc you reminded me of a question I had and kept forgetting to ask you 👀 are dry shampoos with butane and propane good, or not really? I keep hearing mix opinions. What I usually hear: - thats nothing wrong with them - they're bad for the environment - they're bad for you overall - they're only bad for you if you breathe them in so use thsm outside So... which is which? If anyone knows, I'd be very grateful to know... I recently got bangs and they get oily so fast that I really need to get my hands on some dry shampoo 😩.
….but the FDA’s sample is not market-representative either. I live in Europe btw and we have had asbestos shockingly found in huge brands such as Douglas and Hema makeup. Which is most likely black label. Which makes you wonder where else it is. And there is no safe exposure level to asbestos according to authorities. Meaning one product in your lifetime is already too high. The way forward clearly is talc-free. Not because asbestos is in every product containing talc, but because it is in SOME and we do not know which.
As mentioned in the video, it isn't market representative since it was a biased sample, and biased in favour of a higher result. I also explained the "no safe exposure" part from 9:09 - yes it would be better to have zero asbestos, but the chance of developing mesothelioma from makeup use is vanishingly small.
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience did you read my comment? 🤔 I am responding to what you said in your video regarding the sample size not being representative, and countering with the fact that the FDA’s sample is not market representative either. I am an experimental scientist as well, I am well aware how sampling bias works. According to health authorities (thus not fear-mongerers or people with an agenda) there is no safe level for exposure to asbestos (as for example there are safe levels of impurities in food and supplements, such as acceptable levels of mercury in fish oil). Finally, how do you calculate how small the risk is for a user? By assuming that the way they use makeup is as intended? Have you seen how beauty users (who in turn copy YT beauty gurus) apply setting powder? It creates *clouds*. When were the presumed safe ways to use makeup thought up? When everyone used the sponge-tip applicators that came with shadow and did not disturb the product enough to lift and create kick-up? Before people used brushes thus? Brushes that they then tap-tap-tap to remove excess product creating more mini clouds? And if there is no safe level of asbestos why risk consumer health at all? There are plenty of acceptable bulking agents to mix with pigment, such as zea mais starch, kaolin clay, etc. I appreciate your educating the public about how skewed and sensationalist certain documentaries can be, but if you too are a scientist, then you must know that you would need a longitudinal study comparing two groups to make a pronouncement on how infinitesimal or not the chances are.
I'm kinda worried about how talc is sourced. I've heard that there are issues with people who mine the talc getting exposed to asbestos and it's hard to know whether the people mining it are protected eg child labour in developing countries
There's mixed evidence for cosmetic talc miners getting mesothelioma, with most studies seeming to lean towards not - but I don't know if that's the same case for places with poor workplace protections. I think it's worth noting that risks to workers don't correlate with "clean" vs "dirty" - either way, probably a good idea to avoid child labour regardless!
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience agreed with 'clean' vs 'dirty' I'd rather my products last longer and have fewer irritants than natural products. It's a relief to know mesothelioma isn't guaranteed with talc mining. Thankyou so much for making this video, I know over the years there have been articles about asbestos being found in a small number of beauty products, but those brands have received a lot of backlash from consumers. If it was more common then more brands would be named and shamed like Claires has been.
@@sylvain123 so you don't wear fast fashion? (Most are made by underpaid workers in third world countries) you don't buy apple products or shop from amazon?
Thanks! Chem Eng here and when I watched the documentary and I was like “mhhh” this sounds too extremist. I do believe those patients suffered! But how many of all the ppl that wear the products get the same issues? Probably couple out of the million of users. My grandma -who was 96- used that talc her entire life (we are form southamerica). Everybody used to get the talc for literally everything xD Good luck to the lady removing AAAALLL the talc from products😬
I'm super excited to see you addressing this series! I couldn't be bothered to get HBO Max to watch this (and I don't want them to get more views lol), but I used to watch the influencers who were interviewed for the Hair episode. To say that tensions ran and are still running high when it comes to Devacurl is...an understatement. 😬 Regardless, I look forward to Nails and Skin break-downs as well!
Waiting for Netflix to get Michelle her own documentary.. I would love for it to be called “skin is BUMPY” regardless of the actual content of the documentary
Talc is in almost all my makeup and powders, I find that almost the high end and luxury brands use talc in their powders (ABH, Fenty, Pat McGrath, Chanel, the super popular Laura mercier powders etc.) I find powders with talc more matte than the ones that are talc free and hence never bothered about talc since my favourite brands all use it, but I am seeing more and more talc free powders now. NARS have also reformulated their powder to be talc free, and ELF, Rare beauty and Saie have marketed their powders as being talc free
Loved the intro! 😍😂 Anyway, thanks for exposing unethical practice to cherry-pick content in such documentaries. It’s really so frustrating to see how big production companies just don’t care bout facts and truth anymore, this is just pure fear mongering.
The same kind of fearmongering happens in the nutrition industry... Some documentaries insist that fat is the devil, or it's really sugar that's the worst, when in reality it's really the dose that makes the poison. It's not really beneficial to omit either of the categories (unless maybe trying a keto diet, but I'm not 100% sure). In fact, my mom's sister who is a dermatologist recommended one of those documentaries, but I'll never really be sure why. I guess documentaries show that if you're clueless enough about a topic but bring enough cherry-picked evidence to the table, you can convince anyone. It has caused me to trust documentaries less and less and to take their positions and points with a grain of salt, which is rather disappointing because documentaries used to be entertaining for me. Now they're just annoying.
The keto diet can severely damage hearts. Highly recommend the episode of the podcast Maintenance Phase on the keto diet for a deep dive on the history and research on the health effects
Outstanding yet again !! I worry though that teens {of whom are sooo highly influential) and everyday pple whom are not into fact checking and reading science journals like many of us do....that they will not pay attention to i.e. this long video explaining all such important points and bringing facts to the table.
Yeah... I'm going to make some short-form videos on it too, but it's always hard trying to condense it to that sort of length without losing a ton of accuracy!
Thank you for taking the time to shine light on this, Michelle. As a beauty creator who also has a background in film I was really disappointed in how the filmmakers used their talents to make these stories seem like facts to produce fear. Gives documentarians a bad name. 😞
I've never been concerned that talc products contain asbestos and cause cancer. I agree, the facts just aren't there. But I have found, after trial and error, that talc in eye makeup is really irritating to my eyes. When I use products with talc, my eyes are more prone to itching and redness. So, I use some "clean" eye products not because I believe all the hype, but simply because I think I have a mild allergy/sensitivity to talc. I'm thinking that may not be uncommon.
Thank you for reminding people that many older homes were built with asbestos in the walls. Corrin, the MUA was born and raised in a small town just west of New Orleans and the risk of asbestos exposure is much higher in many parts of the South in the US because of hurricanes and hurricane cleanup. If she has spent most of her life up until the documentary at least living in Louisiana I would not be surprised that she caught a mesothelioma diagnosis living literally just off the Mississippi River during multiple hurricane seasons. Her love of makeup and her profession just cover up the fact that the United States has poor storm and flood infrastructure and is insulting to victims of natural disasters in underserved parts of the country,
Love the skit at the start! Fear-mongering documentary makers should be stopped. And how is this documentary when it is so biased and have so much misinformation? HBO should be ashamed of themselves for paying for this "documentary".
I would love a sort of public viewing party with you, Steven, et al to witness your live reactions that the lay person may not have when viewing content like this. I know that's a reach but we can dream!
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience If you ever decide to do something like that again I'm sure there are others that would love your live reactions/perspectives. You all are such an asset to the beauty/cosmetics space.
I've watched with delight as your subscriber numbers have grown and grown over the years. It's so important that we have people talking sense about science, and debunking as many beauty myths as possible. I have a science-based degree too, (plus have always had a huge cynical streak) and have still occasionally been fooled, so it must be very hard for people with no scientific background to sort truth from spin or outright BS. Thanks Michelle ❤
Thank you! I hope everyone who watches the doc watches your video! I was particularly appalled in the Skin episode how clearly cherry picked the experts were and how they never even touched on how topical products could get to the bloodstream, but nevertheless draw conclusions about the risks of phthalates in skincare from studies where mice were directly injected. Not one dermatologist or skin science expert included, and two clips from interviews of outside sources stating opposing viewpoints are immediately branded as apologists and then discredited. And yet… if I didn’t know anything about the industry, I don’t know if I would have realized how manipulative and skewed it all is.
Thank you so much for this video! ❤️ I'm not gonna lie; I checked all my own and especially my daughter's makeup after watching the documentary, and we stopped using the products with talc... Happy we didn't throw them out right away! 😄
Thank you for doing this video Michelle 💙🤗 I was so frustrated when I watched this documentary. It is offensively popular. I couldn't believe that it has such an audience by inflicting terror on people. However, one of the most annoying things for me, besides the content of course! was the dramatic tone of the narrator. Unbearable 😅
I have OCD and have been afraid of chemical ingredients and cosmetic products for years. In my opinion, the target audience of marketing techniques like Clean Beauty is people like me, for whom they can easily arouse fear. Thanks to your videos, I stopped being afraid and constantly on the lookout for "chemical hazards".
That's very true, I'm not yet able to receive any sort of diagnosis (for anything) but I experience a lot of paranoia and anxiety, it's mostly related to people and germs, but when I used to watch documentaries like this they really scared me.. I hate that clean beauty is preying on people with mental health issues, even if they may not realize it. I'm super grateful for people like Michelle spreading correct and accurate information!
That's awesome! I'm sure it also took a lot of mental work to overcome that fear caused by OCD.
@lily If it makes you feel any better, as long as you aren't doing lines of it or purposely trying to huff it, you should be fine. Even then, whatever health problem you could experience would be more related to you having inhaled a large amount of fine powder.
me too. its really affected my mental health and im starting to realise this stress will kill me before any of these chemicals will.
I too have ocd and ever since I watched the documentry, I literally haven’t been able to do my makeup and have to skip over half of my makeup routine :(
I own an asbestos consulting firm in New York US for 22 years and I am very impressed with your video. My only comment is that some of your graphics, especially the risk and dose ones, could be up for longer than just a few seconds. The asbestos industry is very much about liability much more than public safety, at least in New York. Thank you for explaining the risks in easy to understand points. I love your channel!
Thank you!
She has those graphics up for a lot longer than a few seconds in original video she referenced about that!
This happens a lot in social media- you need to get used to pausing to read and study. It's something I had to get used to lately as well.
I have meso from asbestos in make up. From New York. Please try to explain to my why something that is supposed to make me feel good, will kill me? I am in the process of litigation now. It’s a disgrace and the companies have known for decades. Why not so much fuss made? We die. And quickly. I couldn’t watch to the end of this video. I have chemo today and I’m just shocked to have the piss taken out of me for something that will kill me. And is real. Please help fund for a cure. Then you can all feel it’s ok to put asbestos in talc based products now. Anyway. I need to get ready to be poisoned to try to live.
@@noodlepoodlegirl - When I watch youtube (on my PC), I always have one hand resting on the keyboard.
thumb on the table. Index finger on the space bar. Middle & ring fingers on the < > keys. Pinky finger on the backwards arrow key. It's very ideal. Plus my index finger is then right beside the M-key, too.
Pause, frame-by-frame, backwards 5 seconds, mute. Also while the space bar is held down, the video plays in 2x speed, which is such an awesome update.
They have ads for clean beauty apps in their documentary? Clean Beauty brands use talc too, because it's considered a natural ingredient. How hypocritical of them.
I saw an ad for that documentary and I knew something about it is suspicious.
Thanks for talking about this!
I jumped on the “clean beauty” wagon years ago when I was trying to get pregnant. I’m so glad that people who are knowledgeable professionals like you are debunking this false narrative. Thank you so much!
Me too! I ended up with scars all over my torso from scratching myself so much.
So glad that you were able to get out nof that mindset! I'm curious, what convinced you to listen to the legit scientists?
@@kagitsune I also jumped on the band wagon of clean beauty some years ago, ended up reading the labels and ingredients on everything that I was buying. There was a particular website that also had an online shop and I was reading lots and lots of articles on this site. For me the first warning sign was when the lead writer answered a question about palm oil in various products and gave me the impression that while they were advocating for the holistic approach of clean beauty, they did not really care about palm oil plantations and their negative effect on the ecosystem. Then there were some comments and an article that seemed to me to be on the anti-vaccine territory. Eventually my enthusiasm faded, because I realized how one-sided these articles can be and how easily they can be misinterpreted by uninformed or misinformed people. I am not going to pretend that I wasn't left with some good things from those months: perhaps I became a more informed buyer, I try to buy products free of animal cruelty and I understand that just because something is natural it doesn't automatically mean that it is better.
@@unmellowyellow why?
So glad you're talking about this! I watched the doc but found it annoyingly reductive and slick... felt like an advertisement in parts, itself. Leaned a bit too heavy on the "pop science!" doc side where I prefer those with more even keel tone and spread of talking heads. All docs have bias but this one was pretty egregious, re: fear-mongering/sensationalism to drive views/HBO Max subscriptions.
Yeah I felt like this one was a bit heavy-handed with the persuasive techniques! But it was definitely effective - I found myself wanting to believe a lot of the time, even though I knew there was better evidence, and some things like the completely one-sided roster of experts wasn't entirely obvious to me until I listed them all in a spreadsheet :|
I'm a guy who doesn't wear makeup, but this kind of purposefully slanted documentary makes me angry. Thank you for covering it and shedding some light. I hope this video gets shared with likely viewers of the doc who are vulnerable to the shenanigans.
Yes! My cousins wife told me she watched it and I sent her this video as soon as I saw it! So many people are easily convinced unfortunately.
@Trinity M he can say what he wants to say, he doesn't need your permission
@Trinity M I know it might have gone way over your head, but I think he was trying to emphasize how the bulk of the "documentary" doesn't really apply to him, but misinformation is an evil in general.
@Trinity M Considering what she said in the video about how many men are actually at risk for this cancer and asbestos I think that it makes sense that he points out that he’s a man that doesn’t wear make up because asbestos puts everyone at risk, not just women or people who wear make up
@@Givebackthescarf - I do agree. Was rather unnecessary lol (which is fine enough, just something I also thought was interesting).
Guys very often feel the need to add these details, to make sure people know that they're not doing the un-masculine thing in question ("un-masculine" for the particular society and time in question).
I used to do it a lot without even thinking about it, and then when I realised, I would question why I feel the need to clarify such information about myself. Usually it's unnecessary and I take it out. Also often really reinforces weird gender-norms in society (intentionally or not).
Not to delve TOO deep into something that has nothing to do with the larger point he was making lol. I did like the comment.
You are doing God's work with this channel to fight misinformation. thank you!
Thank you!
This is so scary and I hate how they use these platforms to show half naked theories 🙄 glad you’re talking about this and I LOVED the intro btw 😅
I think you might have meant "half-baked," but I really like "half naked" SO MUCH BETTER!😆
I'm 11 months late, but I agree. The intro was so cute and funny! I'm glad she throws her sense of humor in there. I appreciate it.
I was really concerned when i heard about the 'link' between overian cancer and talc, because my mom died from that type of cancer. I was thinking of replacing my makeup products with ones that don't contain it, which would lead to money going to waste for no reason. I remember watching girls on tiktok throwing away their expensive makeup products after watching this documentary. It's truly shameful that they manipulated the audience that way, because fear is one of the greatest motivator for us humans. Thank you for that video!
Sorry to hear, cancer is awful! Glad you found this helpful 😊
I'm so glad you're covering this..please do the rest of the series 🍿
We need better regulation of the beauty industry but we also don't need fear mongering bc that actually makes it harder to make good laws
Exactly! There's a lot of energy being spent on unproductive/counter-productive actions 😩
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience I'd argue that's because all they actually want is to make money. Money from a sensationalist doco one one level, but also what are the connections to those clean beauty apps? Or clean beauty brands? Maybe I'm just cynical, but everything about or economic system suggests that profit is almost always the motive so I doubt it.
@Katherine Morelle There does seem to be a lot of involvement from the usual clean beauty orgs like the EWG, Breast Cancer Prevention Partners...
@@katherinemorelle7115 following the money is ALWAYS a smart way to be skeptical!
My biggest tip for documentary-watching is to keep in mind the “troubling trio,” which is used for detecting questionable research practices in science but can also be useful anytime you’re digesting information. Watch out for:
1) low statistical power: in documentaries this mainly shows up as a small sample size. If there are only 2 main cases it’s following and they don’t provide rates of mesothelioma from makeup exposure that are generalizable to the whole population, ask yourself why.
2) a surprising result: does the documentary outline an elaborate conspiracy that seems too crazy to be true? It probably is. This documentary and Seaspiracy come to mind off the top of my head.
3) low statistical significance: in documentary-watching, check for a lack of citations, and if you’re already feeling skeptical, check up on the citations they do provide. Look to see if any of those citations are scholarly sources and if they provide significance levels. If there are no scholarly sources or no citations or no experts of the right kind/experts who disagree that are displayed in the documentary, that’s a red flag.
Stay skeptical :)
Thank you so much for this. Knowing how to educate ourselves is just as important as education itself. There is so much fear mongering, misinformation and intensive marketing that as consumers we have no idea what to believe. I am so glad that today’s consumers are more educated than ever and we need learning.
I still do believe in the Seaspiracy documentary and think it’s legitimate
What drives me nuts is that these "documentaries" get funding and a platform by companies like Netflix and HBO. It lends so much credibility to these things and gives them an audience that's so much bigger than it otherwise would have been.
Netflix and HBO are entertainment companies, so they platform shows for that value. Somewhere along the way documentaries were confused with muck racking or true telling. That'd not what they are for. They exist to give a certain perspective, so they are always slanted. A documentary shown on PBS is no less likely to be slanted than one Netflix, depending on the topic, of course. I do think PBS would have done a better job at this topic by at least seeking differing opinions
But please trust they have other ways to ensure the creators' pov is central.
I expect more from HBO. The home of John Oliver where research is actually properly done.
@@chaoticchemicalromance Except for the Venezuela hit piece he did. The Empire Files shredded it.
If I may give my two cents... any film, series or documentary can get government funding and investors. The subject doesn't really matter, because the government's goal is to help create local jobs and develop the local industry, and investor's goal is to get a profit. Meaning, none of the investors are looking into what is talked about in the project, that's for the filmmakers to do.
i'm late to this video, but i searched up while having an anxiety attack over me using airspun for a year. i had watched the hbo show earlier this year and it did not leave my mind all this year thinking i was at risk for cancer even though i just started using makeup a year ago. however, you do not know the immense relief your video gave me. i really thought i was at major risk for lung cancer for using this product. please continue to do videos like these to better inform the millions of people like myself who have been misguided and have irrational fear to many products due to misinformation. much love and take care!
I'm really happy to hear that! 😊
I really value this. I took the information from the documentary at face value, and it's really eye opening for me to really sit and consider the ways in which I need to fact check and be informed of biases. I didn't throw away products, but I could also see the sneaky way that they tried to infer that clean beauty was going to be the answer to all of this which is...still marketing and pushing an agenda.
I’m an industrial hygienist who wears makeup. I despise fearmongering. Thank you for doing this video.
Thank you!
As a fellow chemist and molecular biologist, thank you. This whole narrative is absolutely mind-boggling. Alas, we see that in a host of different contexts. "Experts" with no actual expertise for health outcomes and lawyers all too eager to hit the motherlode with scare stories. And alas, all too easy in the US, where convincing a jury can be much easier than convincing peer review...
Any time I see a documentary about health and it only includes one doctor I get suspicious (since doctors tend to have different views). When a documentary about health doesn't have a single doctor or health scientist theres a big red flag
My grandmother has used talc powder since she was a youth. I wouldn't say she is the beacon of health, but talc use hasn't been part of her health issues.
Your argument for presenting science correctly is solid. Only, it seems talc isn't necessary at all - in baby powder or cosmetics. Asbestos isn't necessary anymore, either. You can do both - trust science and be skeptical of documentaries, and still don't use talc anyway.
Thank you for this Michelle. My sister is all about that "au natural" life. She eats up green washing and clean beauty (Everything is killing you!). It drives me nuts but I send her your videos and I think we're slowly making a difference! 🙏😎🤜🏻🤛🏻
I’ll bet that those clean beauty apps mentioned towards the end had some kind of a stake in the funding of the documentary👀 Excellent video! Your channel has helped me demystify and lessen my anxiety about stuff in cosmetic products🥰
These asshats had my poor mom absolutely convinced that she was going to die from ovarian cancer. When I texted her that 2020 paper to set her mind at ease, she was like, "How about I just believe you and stop worrying about it?"😆
I really hate the whole aspect of clean beauty that leads to self-blame for conditions that have huge genetic components/other contributors that are hugely out of the individual's control, it's very medieval 😒
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience AMEN!
I was about to watch this yesterday, I kid you not. I decided against it because I was I was all, "This is probably going to be like the sunscreen-benzene scare." Sounds like my concerns were well founded. No surprise. I thank you for making this video, and I appreciate your thoughtful, science-based commentary. Always on-point.
I was waiting for somebody in the science beauty space to talk about this! I watched a little bit of the series and had to turn it off because it just felt off and incredibly biased to get people to fear everything and buy “clean” or whatever.
Great video as usual!
I have found your videos and I can't stop watching them. There was a time when I went with whatever the headlines were. Your easy to understand and logic based breakdowns of complex topics is inspiring. I'm a 41year old mother of two girls, who wants to be able to teach them how to sift through the mountain of misinformation out there and find the truth. Thank you for helping me do that.
That's really lovely to hear, thank you! 😊
Well done! I am a big fan of science. Huge! I work in Finance and we have a saying, if you cannot identify the product, you are the product. A lawyer as an expert is suss at best and purposely mis-leading at worst. Everyone is looking to be the next Erin Brokovich!
Worse yet, a lawyer representing the plaintiffs is not an unbiased expert.
I have actually been to a Talk with Erin brokovich and ended up leaving early because she was pushing this "i didnt have to be an expert to know sth was wrong" narrative. Sounded less Like environmental advocazy and more Like self-Help. Im super impressed with what she managed to do, but to completely Discount the need for scientific backing in a world that already pretends that climate science isnt a Thing seems more damaging to me than helpful
Episodes like this is exactly why I'm a loyal subscriber. Your intro to this video was hilarious and shows the importance of knowing your sources at the same time. Soooo well done! I'm not even finished watching, but I just had to comment and give you some love for your amazing work. Thank you, Michelle!
Love that you are doing this series. There is so much fear mongering out there and it's amazing to have actual (unbiased) experts talking about the issues.
One day my sister came to me and said something like "If you are going to buy this sh*tty makeup, you may as well just not buy anything. That's poison." And then gave me a sermon about more natural alternatives. She was so rude and I couldn't get her to question her own standpoint. I'll just show her this video and hope she starts being more critical when choosing her sources.
Update?
You could also just tell her that asbestos is natural, it comes from the earth but it's not very good for us
omg thank you so much for doing this!!! i have been one of those people eating up all the articles telling me that all my household cosmetics, body care, and cleaners are killing me. I have been so frightened. would love to hear your take on bath and body works candles and body care. I have always loved their products and they are such a huge company with such a huge audience. i have been terrified of using their products since all this “clean beauty” “dirty ingredients” stuff started!
i knew it was just gonna be clean beauty fear-mongering nonsense. thank you for clearing this up and adding an educated perspective!
I KNEW IT! I had suspicions about the documentary the whole time I was watching that episode and ESPECIALLY when they plugged specific ~clean beauty~ apps at the end. The conspiracy that episode was trying to outline seemed like it was really disproportionate when you weigh the PR/harm the companies would be doing with the profits they gain specifically from using talc. Companies sometimes do elaborate, almost comically cruel things, yes. Maybe even often. But those things are usually simple and highly profitable. J&J and the other companies mentioned were all HUGE brands that sold a ton of different products, there was no way it would be MORE convenient for them to keep giving people asbestos products than it would be to use cornstarch-based talc alternatives, especially since the government subsidizes corn farming. I got so sketched out by that series I knew they were being sensationalist at best and dishonest at worst. Never forget that the “clean beauty” industry is worth billions too. Somebody has an interest in you using those apps to tell you what products to buy.
Thank you for pointing out ways of critically thinking about the information given in any documentary. It's important to think about the qualifications of the people giving us information and what that may say about their motivation for giving the information to us.
Keep up the good work on videos that debunk beauty myths!
Seriously, thank you for this. It is really important work you are doing to educate the consumer against predatory behaviours masked as concerns for our safety.
Thank you so much!
I'm so glad you're covering this (haven't even watched the video yet) cause I saw the title of the doc and just KNEW it would be laced with propaganda and fear-mongering
I can’t wait to see the episode on skincare. There was so much wrong with that episode. So many conclusions jumped to, assumptions made. It’s maddening because all the skincare groups and forums went alight with new freak outs about fragrance and hormone distribution.
It's interesting reading some of these comments with words such as "fear mongering" and such. I never paid much attention to ingredients in my makeup products and wasn't really knowledgeable about talc and asbestos. It wasn't until my mom was recently diagnosed with mesothelioma in Dec. 2023 that my family and I were absolutely dumbfounded. We couldn't find any link as to how this could be possible. The only thing we have concluced is that she's been using powder foundation, blush, mascara all from Lancome which all contain talc for the past 20+ years. It's so easy to say "it'll never happen to me" or documentaries like this are "invoking fear." Our lives are now completely shattered as we have no idea how long we have left with her. I just encourage you all to maybe truly think twice about what's in your cosmetics. Talc is so unnecessary.
As mentioned in the video, asbestos is an incredibly common building material and in brake pad dust - it would be incredibly unusual if your mum had gotten more asbestos exposure from makeup than from those.
thank you for talking about this! I watched this doc two weeks ago and the entire thing felt so...off. from the lack of relevant expertise to those three websites/apps shown at the end of each episode. watching your vids brings me a lot of peace of mind (and reminds me to assess all the info I get from the media more critically). I'm tired of all the fear-mongering when it comes to food/makeup especially.
Love how you explain it all, and that opening was amazing!
I love a channel that knowledgeably debunks widespread misinformation and teaches the audience how to think critically and examine for themselves
When you mention the “dose that makes the poison “, my question is - I understand that scientists are making products that are safe to use on their own , but most people don’t use just one product. By the time you shower, Skincare, makeup, deodorant, hair care, perfume, spf etc it’s closer to 20-30 products. At those amounts will an ingredient that technically is safe be treading into unsafe territory if it’s applied x30 in one day. I would love to see studies done on what chemical load people are getting after a beginning to end routine. I think that’s where some of the fear comes from it’s not just one product it’s many layers. I was a clean Beauty freak but it began breaking me out so I’m back to regular products…but I still wonder what those products are doing once absorbed into my skin.
It's taken into account in toxicological assessments - I talk about it here at about 8:30 ruclips.net/video/h5Ta6T2DmRQ/видео.html
I’m so glad we have you to get to the “REAL” truth. You are a lifesaver! 🥰😘
Suuuch a great video. You make good arguments. Absolutely documentaries are not science, and honestly sometimes they cherry-pick data on purpose. It's so frustrating!
So so happy to see this video. When everyone started talking about talc concerns again, I promised I wouldn’t give my input until you posted about it. Thank you 👏🏼
13:16 I feel like the baby powder subject is p important to talk about, considering that it has many uses and people (like me) still have pre-2023 talc-based J&J in their houses. It was actually thanks to the (albeit fearmonger-y) docs that I had stopped using it, as my family is very prone to cancer. I'm talking skin, colon, brain, testicular, lung, and multiple lymphoma cases. So while it might not be on the market, its still important to discuss, like how we still often talk about lead paint and asbestos insulation.
Love your clear logic!! One would think they consult industry experts including scientists before they air the stuff, but that means they'll cancel themselves so ...
I was impressed at how biased this documentary is and seemed to be full of superficial information. Thank you for this video, the other episodes are just as bad as the first one.
I have a problem with misleading documentaries that use manipulative tactics to get the audience riled up even when/if they're actually tackling an important subject that I happen to agree needs to be more properly addressed, because if you're being shady and inaccurate even while trying to raise valid concerns, you're only making "your side" more easily dismissed, and can cause more harm to your cause than the shady tactics help, if that makes sense.
I feel strongly that if your evidence is solid, it can and should stand up to scrutiny, so let the experts present their best cases on both sides. I also find this a more effective persuasion tool than a clearly biased, one sided account. But then I come from an empirical science background (not STEM hardness, but same principles apply), so I am used to and expect to have theories and hypotheses tested, retested, studies replicated (or fail to) and methods and conclusions argued about for extended periods of time, and no single study being the be-all end-all of any such debate, let alone a handful of anecdotes.
Thank you. I have not seen this series (don't have HBO), but I watched "Toxic Beauty" documentary...which is focused on talk and parabens.👍
Ugh yes, that one was terrible as well and used some of the same sources 😒
There was a lot of asbestos in kindergartens, schools and general workplaces and now found as insulation in homes. There’s extremely high standards of getting rid of of it and removing it and dumping it is strictly controlled and it is supposed to be wrapped thought, PPE, every measurement possible. It’s horrific that asbestos is treated so lightly.
Hmmm during medical school I was told that when used in powders for chafing, it was found to have a correlation with Ovarian Cancer.
Only anecdotal but I used to used talc powder and I have had ovarian cancer...
When I saw a trailer for this documentary, I immediately hoped you'd make a response. It seemed to me like it would be touching on some really important issues relating to medical bias/inequality of access, particularly for people of colour. But at the same time, alarm bells were going off around the clean beauty rhetoric. So yeah, really glad to have you here to explain the good and bad points! Thank you!
The opening gives communitychannel and I love it so much 😭😭
Hahaha I will gladly take that compliment 😊
Thank you! I thought about what you would say to me the whole time I was watching the docuseries! I will admit, I almost threw everything away but then I thought, what would LMBS do. Thank you for making this video!
Thank you for such balanced, science based discussion
I purposely didn’t watch this documentary because I could tell it was all fear mongering. Just the fact that people on TikTok were throwing out mass amounts of makeup because of this documentary was a big red flag 🚩 to me. Glad you made this video to show the biases in this documentary. Confirmed I made the right choice not watching it.
oh man I’m SOOO happy to see this one! I think it’s from my parents but asbestos is like one of my biggest fears in general (hello popcorn ceiling). Can’t wait to hear your information
As an Australian, fear of asbestos is part of our national psyche (and justifiedly too) 😩
It’s really interesting how ingrained this is within so many people. It’s also like that here in the US.
Thank you for making this. Asbestos freaks me out prior to watching and I then naively watched the documentary. I didn’t throw out my makeup but I was considering it.
Michelle, thanks so much. My Mom is one of those people who fears for her life from talc in makeup. I'm so happy to share these facts with her and hopefully quell her fears. We're a very science based family, so you'd think she did her research, but she probably just heard about the lawsuit instead. Thanks for stating facts and busting some myths. Love you!
Subscribing to your channel was one of the best decisions of this year. Thank you for speaking out!
Thanks Michelle. I was literally concerned this week because I inhaled some mineral foundation and thought I was going to die a painful death!
Oh no. Lol
Your nose hair probably caught most of it, and you sneezed it out later. 😉
@@ambergerhelper7852 No it went into my lungs because it made me cough
That's why I don't use loose powder makeup, even though it looks nice. I know it gets into your lungs and that can't be good. Using pressed powder should lessen exposure, or hold your breath when you apply it and step out of the room until it dissipates.
small little detail but i greatly appreciate the "kalm" and "panik" memes you used in this lol
Speaking of talc you reminded me of a question I had and kept forgetting to ask you 👀 are dry shampoos with butane and propane good, or not really? I keep hearing mix opinions. What I usually hear:
- thats nothing wrong with them
- they're bad for the environment
- they're bad for you overall
- they're only bad for you if you breathe them in so use thsm outside
So... which is which? If anyone knows, I'd be very grateful to know... I recently got bangs and they get oily so fast that I really need to get my hands on some dry shampoo 😩.
I have been thinking about the same questions 🧐
Klorane botanicals spray dry shampoo doesn't have butane etc. It's rice and oat starch with clay powder. I bought it at Ulta. Works great
….but the FDA’s sample is not market-representative either. I live in Europe btw and we have had asbestos shockingly found in huge brands such as Douglas and Hema makeup. Which is most likely black label. Which makes you wonder where else it is. And there is no safe exposure level to asbestos according to authorities. Meaning one product in your lifetime is already too high. The way forward clearly is talc-free. Not because asbestos is in every product containing talc, but because it is in SOME and we do not know which.
As mentioned in the video, it isn't market representative since it was a biased sample, and biased in favour of a higher result. I also explained the "no safe exposure" part from 9:09 - yes it would be better to have zero asbestos, but the chance of developing mesothelioma from makeup use is vanishingly small.
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience did you read my comment? 🤔 I am responding to what you said in your video regarding the sample size not being representative, and countering with the fact that the FDA’s sample is not market representative either. I am an experimental scientist as well, I am well aware how sampling bias works. According to health authorities (thus not fear-mongerers or people with an agenda) there is no safe level for exposure to asbestos (as for example there are safe levels of impurities in food and supplements, such as acceptable levels of mercury in fish oil). Finally, how do you calculate how small the risk is for a user? By assuming that the way they use makeup is as intended? Have you seen how beauty users (who in turn copy YT beauty gurus) apply setting powder? It creates *clouds*. When were the presumed safe ways to use makeup thought up? When everyone used the sponge-tip applicators that came with shadow and did not disturb the product enough to lift and create kick-up? Before people used brushes thus? Brushes that they then tap-tap-tap to remove excess product creating more mini clouds? And if there is no safe level of asbestos why risk consumer health at all? There are plenty of acceptable bulking agents to mix with pigment, such as zea mais starch, kaolin clay, etc. I appreciate your educating the public about how skewed and sensationalist certain documentaries can be, but if you too are a scientist, then you must know that you would need a longitudinal study comparing two groups to make a pronouncement on how infinitesimal or not the chances are.
YESSSS i’m so glad you’re covering this series!! i was imagining some of your responses as i was watching it ❤️🖤
I'm kinda worried about how talc is sourced. I've heard that there are issues with people who mine the talc getting exposed to asbestos and it's hard to know whether the people mining it are protected eg child labour in developing countries
That's a good point.
There's mixed evidence for cosmetic talc miners getting mesothelioma, with most studies seeming to lean towards not - but I don't know if that's the same case for places with poor workplace protections. I think it's worth noting that risks to workers don't correlate with "clean" vs "dirty" - either way, probably a good idea to avoid child labour regardless!
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience agreed with 'clean' vs 'dirty' I'd rather my products last longer and have fewer irritants than natural products. It's a relief to know mesothelioma isn't guaranteed with talc mining.
Thankyou so much for making this video, I know over the years there have been articles about asbestos being found in a small number of beauty products, but those brands have received a lot of backlash from consumers. If it was more common then more brands would be named and shamed like Claires has been.
@@sylvain123 so you don't wear fast fashion? (Most are made by underpaid workers in third world countries) you don't buy apple products or shop from amazon?
Thanks! Chem Eng here and when I watched the documentary and I was like “mhhh” this sounds too extremist. I do believe those patients suffered! But how many of all the ppl that wear the products get the same issues? Probably couple out of the million of users.
My grandma -who was 96- used that talc her entire life (we are form southamerica). Everybody used to get the talc for literally everything xD
Good luck to the lady removing AAAALLL the talc from products😬
I'm super excited to see you addressing this series! I couldn't be bothered to get HBO Max to watch this (and I don't want them to get more views lol), but I used to watch the influencers who were interviewed for the Hair episode. To say that tensions ran and are still running high when it comes to Devacurl is...an understatement. 😬
Regardless, I look forward to Nails and Skin break-downs as well!
I'm dreading the hair episode a bit 😬
I'm really glad and proud to be a Lab Muffin Beauty Science sub!!
Waiting for Netflix to get Michelle her own documentary.. I would love for it to be called “skin is BUMPY” regardless of the actual content of the documentary
Also there’s been a great “Skeptics in the Pub” talk about how to find junk science in journal papers.
Talc is in almost all my makeup and powders, I find that almost the high end and luxury brands use talc in their powders (ABH, Fenty, Pat McGrath, Chanel, the super popular Laura mercier powders etc.) I find powders with talc more matte than the ones that are talc free and hence never bothered about talc since my favourite brands all use it, but I am seeing more and more talc free powders now. NARS have also reformulated their powder to be talc free, and ELF, Rare beauty and Saie have marketed their powders as being talc free
Loved the intro! 😍😂 Anyway, thanks for exposing unethical practice to cherry-pick content in such documentaries. It’s really so frustrating to see how big production companies just don’t care bout facts and truth anymore, this is just pure fear mongering.
I’d be interested to know who funded this documentary. That clip about the clean beauty apps looked like straight up ads.
Your work is so appreciated! I love having this as a reference. Thank you!!
YÂSS!!!
Queen!!!
My goodness! Not only makeup related but also learned how to watch out for miss information.
Much love!!!
I'm so glad that people like you and Sarah Ingle exist on the Internet 😊
I’m really enjoying this new goofy editing!
The same kind of fearmongering happens in the nutrition industry... Some documentaries insist that fat is the devil, or it's really sugar that's the worst, when in reality it's really the dose that makes the poison. It's not really beneficial to omit either of the categories (unless maybe trying a keto diet, but I'm not 100% sure). In fact, my mom's sister who is a dermatologist recommended one of those documentaries, but I'll never really be sure why. I guess documentaries show that if you're clueless enough about a topic but bring enough cherry-picked evidence to the table, you can convince anyone. It has caused me to trust documentaries less and less and to take their positions and points with a grain of salt, which is rather disappointing because documentaries used to be entertaining for me. Now they're just annoying.
The keto diet can severely damage hearts. Highly recommend the episode of the podcast Maintenance Phase on the keto diet for a deep dive on the history and research on the health effects
Outstanding yet again !!
I worry though that teens {of whom are sooo highly influential)
and everyday pple whom are not into fact checking and reading
science journals like many of us do....that they will not pay attention
to i.e. this long video explaining all such important points and
bringing facts to the table.
Yeah... I'm going to make some short-form videos on it too, but it's always hard trying to condense it to that sort of length without losing a ton of accuracy!
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience I hear ya and being one of whom is entrenched within science you of course want to ensure we have allll the important 'deets.
Thank you so much that video. You are an unbelievably important voice in the beauty community.
Thank you for taking the time to shine light on this, Michelle. As a beauty creator who also has a background in film I was really disappointed in how the filmmakers used their talents to make these stories seem like facts to produce fear. Gives documentarians a bad name. 😞
Thank you so much for this breakdown. 💗 Super informative, I will be sharing with friends who watched that doc.
The only "clean beauty" concept I accept is that clean, polished makeup style with neutral colors used hehehe great content as usual Michelle
I've never been concerned that talc products contain asbestos and cause cancer. I agree, the facts just aren't there. But I have found, after trial and error, that talc in eye makeup is really irritating to my eyes. When I use products with talc, my eyes are more prone to itching and redness. So, I use some "clean" eye products not because I believe all the hype, but simply because I think I have a mild allergy/sensitivity to talc. I'm thinking that may not be uncommon.
Thank you for reminding people that many older homes were built with asbestos in the walls. Corrin, the MUA was born and raised in a small town just west of New Orleans and the risk of asbestos exposure is much higher in many parts of the South in the US because of hurricanes and hurricane cleanup. If she has spent most of her life up until the documentary at least living in Louisiana I would not be surprised that she caught a mesothelioma diagnosis living literally just off the Mississippi River during multiple hurricane seasons. Her love of makeup and her profession just cover up the fact that the United States has poor storm and flood infrastructure and is insulting to victims of natural disasters in underserved parts of the country,
Exelent overview of scientific review at the start. Explaining the complex simply is definitely a skill you have!
Michelle you are truly amazing!
Thank you SO MUCH for this valuable information. You a rare logic voice in this crazy world. I appreciate your work!!!
The opening was AMAZING!! LOVE LOVE LOVE your humor!! Speaking of… would it be possible to do just one video compilation of all your funny sketches? 🤔
Love the skit at the start! Fear-mongering documentary makers should be stopped. And how is this documentary when it is so biased and have so much misinformation? HBO should be ashamed of themselves for paying for this "documentary".
Thank you! I've been wanting skincare and dermatological scientists and professionals to speak up with their perspectives.
I would love a sort of public viewing party with you, Steven, et al to witness your live reactions that the lay person may not have when viewing content like this. I know that's a reach but we can dream!
We did have one but it was a bit impromptu, we should've publicised it more! The recording is here: www.theecowell.com/podcast/nspreaction
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience If you ever decide to do something like that again I'm sure there are others that would love your live reactions/perspectives. You all are such an asset to the beauty/cosmetics space.
I've watched with delight as your subscriber numbers have grown and grown over the years. It's so important that we have people talking sense about science, and debunking as many beauty myths as possible. I have a science-based degree too, (plus have always had a huge cynical streak) and have still occasionally been fooled, so it must be very hard for people with no scientific background to sort truth from spin or outright BS. Thanks Michelle ❤
Thank you! I hope everyone who watches the doc watches your video! I was particularly appalled in the Skin episode how clearly cherry picked the experts were and how they never even touched on how topical products could get to the bloodstream, but nevertheless draw conclusions about the risks of phthalates in skincare from studies where mice were directly injected. Not one dermatologist or skin science expert included, and two clips from interviews of outside sources stating opposing viewpoints are immediately branded as apologists and then discredited. And yet… if I didn’t know anything about the industry, I don’t know if I would have realized how manipulative and skewed it all is.
Been waiting for this🙌🏻 the opening scene🤌🏻😂
Thank you for such rational, balanced and objective content. You are a beacon of good reasoning!
The videos of throwing the makeup and the fear mongering annoyed me so much thank you for the video
Thank you so much for this video! ❤️ I'm not gonna lie; I checked all my own and especially my daughter's makeup after watching the documentary, and we stopped using the products with talc... Happy we didn't throw them out right away! 😄
Just from the initial sketch alone, I love you
Thank you for doing this video Michelle 💙🤗
I was so frustrated when I watched this documentary. It is offensively popular. I couldn't believe that it has such an audience by inflicting terror on people.
However, one of the most annoying things for me, besides the content of course! was the dramatic tone of the narrator. Unbearable 😅