Yes sorry to freakazoid, but shroud getting 4 1 taps in a pug against people who dropped out of 6th grade will be infinitely less impressive than s1mple winning a 1v4 against prime liquid in Katowice, or the what he did to G2 during the major, or literally any of his other 100+ clips hit against top 5 teams. Only thing shroud can do that s1mple can't is maintain a negative raiting for his entire career
@@mrm95 At least Scream had a career against tier 1 teams for many years. Shroud had 1 series in 1 even that c9 lost where he looked like a tier 1 player.
@@rm2124 Amen brotha. Entitiled, spoiled, stuck up ass holes. The high school ego of these people never goes away. Unlucky thes are the players representing our region :/. Shame too, freak used to be a chill dude, but his takes recently have been something else, the tren must be melting his brain
The idea any cs fan would even entertain this question is outrageous.. Just shows you how much the fan base have changed from ppl who actually love and watch the game to just little kids supporting whoever their favorite streamers is.
He literally gave c9 their most notable run in c9 history prior to them winning after his retirement? 🤔 Oh and his aim also transfers seamlessly from game to game while he earns millions and worldwide recognition. Cry.
his aim is great no doubt and his ability to adapt to new games is notable but we are talking about CS here and Shroud was nowhere near S1mple at any point of his career not even in same league as other top pros at that time@@GeronimoEskinozpas
I'm from the US and a Liquid fan but I admit I enjoy when Richard calls out these egotistical NA players and their delusional fans. Stewie literally sabotaged EG and all his fans excused his immaturity smh
shroud is an amazing player when there is zero pressure on him (i.e. some complete non-stakes 10 man, pug, or online game). On LAN you couldn't even call his performances 'mediocre'--they were usually worse than that. Some people just don't handle pressure well. That's okay, he's clearly found his wheelhouse in streaming. But a true CS star he was always far from
Also worth noting his peak is still way lower than S1mple. If he always played that well he'd be extremely good but he STILL wouldn't be on S1mple's level lol
That wasnt the issue the issue was that his aim literally his trade mark skill wasnt even consistent what he was the best at in the world and kinda still is one of the best at is instant long flicks with insane accuracy buuuut that was it his just aiming outside of that was mediocre (for pros) that style of aiming creates insane fucking highlights were u kill 4 ppl in 0,2secounds once ever 10th game thats not good for a pro player that needs to perform every single round
If PUBG didn't arrive to propel his popularity by dunking on plebs, he'd have been just one of those other 3-5k viewer Ex Pro streamers. But he fortunately got gifted a personality clout cult through that game.
8:06 absolutely mental take. How can this guy compare the GOAT with the meme that is shroud? how can someone take any opinions about anything from this guy seriously after this take?
Shroud was absolutely notorious for playing decent/well in online tournaments. But then any time a LAN came around, especially majors, dude was BOTTOM FRAGGING out of his mind... as an American I have never understood why everyone believes he's some FPS god...
Shroud definitely did things s1mple never could. S1mple could never bomb out of a major that early or take entire majors off via not even qualifying for them to begin with.
That point about why BIG is the team that discovered the bug are so apt, genuinely can't remember any game changing details/tricks that are discovered by NA
Its crazy how similar this is to Pokemon With Pokemon, the popular people got there by lying and cheating but the no moral Pokemon community is so fake they will still suck up to the bad actors for clout
As a Canadian, Im insulted by the thought that Shroud was even a above average CS pro. Not only is/was Jonathon "Fatal1ty" Wendell a more gifted gamer, but also a better CS player.
@JONNY M well the discussion was never about prize money, it was about skill. Prize money is irrelevant. In the strong runs C9 ever made he was middle of the pack, playing AVERAGE in every big win. 1.02 rating vs top 20 teams (and it only goes lower vs top 10 and top 5 teams) is not an exceptional player, just average. No one is debating if he had talent or not, just not exceptional talent.
@JONNY M Stats may not be a perfect system, but it is way better system then money earned. Stats are individual, prize money is shared amoung the team. I below average player can be carried into prize money but cannot be carried to decent stats. IE Hooxi.
I'm from NA, and I literally thought Shroud was massively over hyped. He was good, and always great against players who aren't coordinated (pugging) but against a real team with real strats he crumbled, and sucked.
Let's be real. Shroud was mainly an onliner. He's had issues on LAN with some tidbits of genius that was enough to overlay his general mediocrity. He's an great shot but lacked the mentality and drive to be a top tier pro which is why he's way better now as a streamer.
I think he had the mentality to try really hard. The main problem for Shroud was never accepting (except in 2015) to be an entry. Which is backwards logic to me when considering flick accuracy and movement we're the strongest aspects of his game.
Popularity has had a weird effect in the decline of society through social media derangement. Objective metrics about skill have just been thrown out, same for people seeking skillful content. Its all "well... I like that person more"
When initial reactions started to bubble after that stream, I thought “will shroud try to humblebrag and gaslight us into thinking that his talent was up to par but he just wasn’t serious” and you bet he did say it on Twitter
The ONLY reasonable debate for GOAT (there isn't one but the only conversations I will entertain) are dev1ce if you only care about championship totals above all else, or Niko if you hate AWPERS and still pretend the AWP is overpowered despite it being the hardest role to consistently play on tier 1 LAN.
what a joke. its literally like comparing balotelli with messi and its disrespectful. i thought launders really knows about csgo and most of the time i was trusting his input but when it comes to NA, copium is hitting hard i guess
Valorant the same. NA teams won the first masters and since a while European and South American pretty much dominate. EG at Champions being the sole exception. It really shifted
Yeah in every videogame I follow I always feel like the NA scene overhypes themselves and the personalities they have are not really interested in becoming the best they could but instead have a goal of franchising themselves on twitch as the ex pro gamer who now stomps people in other games with less competitive playerbases
Yeah, and it seemed that shroud was just trying to protect his brand by saying what he did. If anything, shroud is one of the goat streamers and a marketing genius, for building his reputation, while not having accomplished much in CS and having no charisma. Dude can sell anything.
Always thought Shroud is the most overrated player of all time. In a 3 year career he had 5 good events (Summer of C9 triple (ESL, DH, ESWC), ESL One Cologne 2014 debut, ESL Brasil). That's it. Biggest onliner of all time, apart from maybe joelz
There are 3 LARGE things i want to hit on in this video, because these kids really never payed any attention. It even escaped you and Thorin so let's dive in deeper. The thing i've hated the most about Shroud, has been how inept he has been with the CS settings and computers. It all ties together by the way. From when he started streaming, he got it into his mind to run max ultra graphics constantly. This has objectively ruined him every damn time whenever he went to lan, because ALL those PC's were either a bit or a LOT weaker. This is just the start, it gets worse. So there has been quite a few lans where you used to watch him on stream ultra-react and melt people in the most absurd ways possible, on HIS ULTRA EXPENSIVE SMOOTH HOME PC. Then we move over to lan, he was like a wet towel. Stung once and then he must re-wind entirely. I remember him talking about how the LAN PC's lagged and him having to adjust his settings, as if some royalty that had to downgrade and turn into a peasant - that's the vibe you got from him. In this respect, he is a perfect Canadian. But he is still a dude and got his pride like any other, so this slipped out of him maybe only ONCE after it happened and that's why it stuck in my mind. It's not what i expected from his all cheery personality. The second one, happened on stream after he played a nuke game and their team got wrecked. The dude admitted to being extremely nervous. That's aside from how he didn't play old nuke with any real confidence (probably direct correlation to that nervousness), and it also always used to be a big tell if he was gonna suck, when his reaction times were non-existent VS what they used to be. Way back, i only watched him every now and then. But his form when he was at home was extremely consistent. Some of the basic plays he did were honestly absurd. But that's when you think "what the hell is really going on here?". This is where i found myself to be the perfect guy to at least poke at that mystery. I've played an inhuman amount of FPS games myself for fun, skill, etc. So i couldn't square the circle in how the hell all of his skill or his edge just vanished when on lan. And go figure. He is not a tactician. We always saw him snagging the latest graphics cards, upgrading to a 2k monitor ASAP, getting the latest 144, 240Hz monitor soon as possible. Ignoring the price, because he could afford it. So you are blatantly right in how the NA mindset sucks, many of them have commented on how ugly the game the EU players look like, but that's because freaking 150fps VS 600fps actually make the game silky smooth and hickups/lag/delay is annihilated. AND. Even if the LAN PC suck massive arse, then you still get 300FPS and you can play to your skill level. Poor teamwork, idiotic game settings that ruined him, nervousness, less self-capability with strategy made him hit a wall that he just couldn't circumvent. Had he listened, taken note of, or even moved to EU, maybe over time, he could have overcome a lot of these problems. Some, with ease. Others with dedication. I myself used to get explosively nervous just playing for fun, trying to clutch. But eventually you adapt, that is what serious drive at the top level over long time also do to a top player. But you see my good man, these are notes i picked up from watching Shroud's stream after that one lan years and years ago by now. I am technically minded, so i know it mattered a whole lot. There was also some larger talk about how the PC's as that one lan sucked but i can't be bothered to research it. The stream-notes are probably only stuff an idiot like me would remember, because the VOD's are for sure long deleted and gone. But i will say that the general plays he did were actually absurdly great, it's the reason for why so many many many people started to believe. But me on the other hand? I wanted it to be tested, properly. And GO FIGURE, he flopped so hard when the seemingly home-bodied man had push come to shove. But as you said, this all fit that NA mentality. It make a sort of stagnation-mentality thrive, because they evidently neglected the end-game entirely. And along all this, i got so provoked and even a bit mad, I've never watched him again. This was like, 2016? At first you are just curious, but giving in like this? With such simple things to take care of? ARE. You. Having. A. Laugh? Last note to add. At the time when he played, the true impact of top-level PC hardware actually mattered a whole lot more than what people know about. Objectively, scientifically. The frame times and internal perceived lag was extremely reduced if you had the money to build a top tier PC at the time. This makes pub stomping or even domination a breeze VS even great players that got just decent or bad computers. So of COURSE he became a pubstomping scrim star, the dude had the only available pay2win method going for himself. Ontop of practicing and streaming the game every day, against great players. But he set his own limitations in the end. And maybe the most sad part? All those PC upgrades meant nothing in the end. The dude's rich off of streaming anyways. If one got great tools and use them ineffectively, it doesn't mean anything at all. So now big boy Richard, you can see that i mostly agree with you. But it's in a way better & a whole lot worse than what people think. What i will wonder about in the end though. Is to what degree his skills could be applied into the game in the end. On paper, he would never be as good as simple. But also, he should have been a good player. But we'll never know, another day in NA.
Holy what a read... I agree that if shroud actually put the work in on a European team, without the great PC all the time, he may have had a better career. But he was NEVER, EVER going to be the best CS player, not even the bet NA CS player. He was at the very best, equivalent to lets say RPK from vitality, and even thats a very generous comparison IMO
@@PlanarianCheraldShroud was mechanically and mentally worse than Boros when he got kicked from Falcons, he wouldn't be able to operate in an EU org when a player better than him couldnt and was memed to death for it
@nikaabuladze3105 Yeah I was strictly comparing to his CSGO record, which is still more impressive imo than shroud. I will never understand why people think shroud was the NA S1mple...
the gap between shroud and simple, is unironically the same as the gap between a regular player and shroud, lol dudes a pubstomper and thats fine. we also forget shroud tried and failed to go pro in valorant, a game full of former b-tier cs players.
The problem with NA esports is that when players reach the top they start to think they are so invincible. However they forget there is an entire plethora of countries and players that are much better than them. This egoistic attitude is often the hinderance to more growth for many of these players.
For me, the only proof I need is that i missed shroud play and only heard about him as a streamer. I missed s1mple play in Flipside and Liquid and I STILL saw highlights, heard stories, the graffiti it goes on and on.
Can someone get an AI to merge pics of Richard and thorin? Creating the greatest bald ginger man, the first person in esports to host eleague pulling a beak face consistently throughout!
I felt like an evil person laughing so often throughout this video, i loved it though, love it when people back up their arguments with evidence like statistics which are objective and measurable data. Bro this video was so good, i subbed after mid way through it.
The numbers speak for themselves. NA CS is abysmal and it's not because the rest of the world is just so much better at the game, there are other mechanisms at play. NA CS culture is ill. Comparing someone who isn't even active in the game to one of the greatest players of all time illustrates how far gone this mans box is.
Shroud was better at adapting to new games quickly than playing CS. I used to love Freakazoid but he's felt out of touch for a few years now. You don't need to be a media student to see how condescending the Shroud tweet was lol.
Shroud is probably the biggest narcissist to ever disgrace the scene. And by probably, I mean definitely. I cannot understand why people like him. I can also distinctly remember shroud underperforming in every important tournament, bottom fragging consistently.
Well actually english people got taught during William the conqueror's occupation how to speak anglo-norman which is an old french dialect so they speak english now ;)
I don't even know why cs people would even back shroud at this point... he's taken every opportunity possible to talk shit and basically diminsh cs... I as someone from NA of course used to cheer for and generally mess with shroud as a player... but never understood why people liked him so much as a "personality" super overrated when it comes to that as well.. the idea of even comparing him with simple is funny... even tho they did practice together alot back in the day... But S1mple is the goat of cs and shroud was like maybe a top 10 NA player...
i agree. people at the top of their fields have something special more than just hard work. I'm sure mike tyson worked hard, but he was also naturally talented. i mean, he's 55 now, and look at him sparring. i don't think any amount of passion can have u close to that guy at that age.
25:10 this is funny, untill the bug breaks the integrity of the game causing everyone to lose their shit out of fear of losing their job and then creating the huge shitstorm that is the coaching scandal... i mean, the bug was equally available for all teams to find...
Not only did he not play with S1mple, but he says "You haven't seen what Shroud can do, I have". Like, it doesn't matter what he can do vs random pugs, what matters is what he can do vs pros when it matters, and that we all have seen. Sure, Shroud is good, but he isn't even in the same tier as S1mple, it isn't even close.
Shroud in his prime was one of the best NA players pretty much after Ska and Stewie. But s1mple in his prime was the best player on the planet. Wasn't even close. Even non-prime s1mple was better than prime Shroud on his best day. NA fanboys are delusional. S1mple is the messi of cs.
Valorant seems to be breaking that 18 month NA thing. It'll be interesting going into the future. The reality is esports is still incredibly young. Be fascinated to see what it is in 20 or 30 years. What kind of titles we are playing then even.
I used to really like shroud and this statement pissed off. How to even put shroud and simple in the same sentence, one failed at everything he tried in cs and the other is the undisputed goat of cs
Shroud is not in the same stratosphere as S1mple, this is 100% true. But the take that NA is somehow less committed to whatever competitive scene is wildly off the mark. NA CS is garbage and always has been. But as a region, NA is as competitive as any other region across all esports. Anyone who cares about comp in America don't see Shroud as anything more than a content creator with good aim. This is all hot garbage.
Jesus Christ Richard, calling us Canadians: Americans, kills me 😂 but when Shroud tweets that……. I guess there’s not much of a difference really is there 🤣🤣
that video your using in the begging hes making a point... there is a huge difference to playing with these guys... his point was NO MEET THEM IN PERSON you can tell... you can tell.. ill bring up my shroud to fatality comparison again. CONTEXT is important.. the dude very cleary made his argument based in his personal experiences IN PERSON .. not from behind a keyboard or watching.. its his real life in person point and he made it clear.. I dont disagree with you take on NA players stalling. we got destroyed
yeah, that tweet is smelly. "almost anybody that has a bit of passion can grind his way into playing lalafunte against me. and see that i am really just a humble guy. the debate is silly." would be a sincere reply
extremely based video. epecially the part about talent. people will cope and cry about never being the best after dedicating their whole life to something
the DELUSION that TWITCH brings to actual GAMERS is funny AF! sure Shroud was "PRO" but he's nowhere near close to any of the best CS GO players of ALL TIME!
Yes sorry to freakazoid, but shroud getting 4 1 taps in a pug against people who dropped out of 6th grade will be infinitely less impressive than s1mple winning a 1v4 against prime liquid in Katowice, or the what he did to G2 during the major, or literally any of his other 100+ clips hit against top 5 teams. Only thing shroud can do that s1mple can't is maintain a negative raiting for his entire career
Exactly. If 1 taps in pointless streams are the point of measure, Scream would be the GOAT. 😂
@@mrm95 At least Scream had a career against tier 1 teams for many years. Shroud had 1 series in 1 even that c9 lost where he looked like a tier 1 player.
Freakazoid represents everything I despise about NA CS
@@rm2124 Amen brotha. Entitiled, spoiled, stuck up ass holes. The high school ego of these people never goes away. Unlucky thes are the players representing our region :/. Shame too, freak used to be a chill dude, but his takes recently have been something else, the tren must be melting his brain
@@mylesG23 shroud had 3 months in 2015 where he was a legit top 10 player. Never even remotely close to simple though
The idea any cs fan would even entertain this question is outrageous.. Just shows you how much the fan base have changed from ppl who actually love and watch the game to just little kids supporting whoever their favorite streamers is.
Well just shows that personality > performance. The best actors aren´t the most popular either.
@@Spinexus best actor not the most popular??? RDJ, Leonardo DiCaprio, etc???
@@FatedVillain555 you just proved tge point
FPS games in general ill take shroud. CS ONLY ill take S1mple.
@@FatedVillain555 Good then that we are talking about CS and not some other random shooter???
Shroud was so ahead of s1mple he got cut and C9 won a major in 6 months
He literally gave c9 their most notable run in c9 history prior to them winning after his retirement? 🤔 Oh and his aim also transfers seamlessly from game to game while he earns millions and worldwide recognition. Cry.
@@GeronimoEskinozpas Because Cloud 9 had existed so long before Shroud joined them. A notable run giving them one tournament win? Damn
@@GeronimoEskinozpas this is not about bank accounts its about cs go go back to school please
@@GeronimoEskinozpas why did he place last at the CoD LAN then? It's almost like he cheats...
his aim is great no doubt and his ability to adapt to new games is notable but we are talking about CS here and Shroud was nowhere near S1mple at any point of his career not even in same league as other top pros at that time@@GeronimoEskinozpas
I'm from the US and a Liquid fan but I admit I enjoy when Richard calls out these egotistical NA players and their delusional fans. Stewie literally sabotaged EG and all his fans excused his immaturity smh
The next score esports documentary about csgo.
Shroud - The unbearable weight of massive talent
Weighed down not only by talent but word on the street is shroud has a fat cock
i wish the score esports would just delete their youtube page
Deperate haters cant just handle emotions whenever shroud's name is heard😂😂😂
@@iwx4021 that wouldn't be profitable tho, and that's all that matters to soulless husks like that. Oh wait, that's like 99% of NA...
“Don’t worry … it’s not a loading error.”
Straight fire. I actually laughed out loud.
Richard was on fire in this clip lol
as a colorblind person ty richard for explaining that lil joke
shroud is an amazing player when there is zero pressure on him (i.e. some complete non-stakes 10 man, pug, or online game). On LAN you couldn't even call his performances 'mediocre'--they were usually worse than that. Some people just don't handle pressure well. That's okay, he's clearly found his wheelhouse in streaming. But a true CS star he was always far from
Yeah he found his level stomping on noobs in pug games in random fps's with his ex pro friends.
Also worth noting his peak is still way lower than S1mple. If he always played that well he'd be extremely good but he STILL wouldn't be on S1mple's level lol
That wasnt the issue the issue was that his aim literally his trade mark skill wasnt even consistent what he was the best at in the world and kinda still is one of the best at is instant long flicks with insane accuracy buuuut that was it his just aiming outside of that was mediocre (for pros) that style of aiming creates insane fucking highlights were u kill 4 ppl in 0,2secounds once ever 10th game thats not good for a pro player that needs to perform every single round
If PUBG didn't arrive to propel his popularity by dunking on plebs, he'd have been just one of those other 3-5k viewer Ex Pro streamers. But he fortunately got gifted a personality clout cult through that game.
shroud is just an american ScreaM@@Haitch12341
"Freak never played with s1mple" God this was the most obvious PepeLaugh ever.
“Let’s take a look at the GOAT that never was…don’t worry, it’s not a loading error” 😭😭😭😭
8:06 absolutely mental take. How can this guy compare the GOAT with the meme that is shroud? how can someone take any opinions about anything from this guy seriously after this take?
Shroud was absolutely notorious for playing decent/well in online tournaments. But then any time a LAN came around, especially majors, dude was BOTTOM FRAGGING out of his mind... as an American I have never understood why everyone believes he's some FPS god...
It's 2022 and I did not think I'd hear Richard Lewis name drop WingsOfRedemption
i remember Richard Lewis saying "I can't take this shit no more man" in another video and it was gold
One of the best thumbnails ever.
Shroud definitely did things s1mple never could. S1mple could never bomb out of a major that early or take entire majors off via not even qualifying for them to begin with.
That point about why BIG is the team that discovered the bug are so apt, genuinely can't remember any game changing details/tricks that are discovered by NA
gotta love being labeled a 'hater' for explicating a shroud tweet.
Comparing shroud to s1mple is like comparing Nicklas Bendtner to Messi.
Bendter_1_blast_messi_0_blast
@@d4n1g 😂😂
Honestly I don't think shroud under-performed at all, that is just his peak
this is 100% true what richard is saying, you can even see in shrouds CSGO video titles (THE KING IS BACK) camon man, you were never the king of csgo
Its crazy how similar this is to Pokemon
With Pokemon, the popular people got there by lying and cheating but the no moral Pokemon community is so fake they will still suck up to the bad actors for clout
Anyone that says shroud is better than s1mples favourite map is de_lusional
As a Canadian, Im insulted by the thought that Shroud was even a above average CS pro.
Not only is/was Jonathon "Fatal1ty" Wendell a more gifted gamer, but also a better CS player.
@JONNY M Money has VERY little to do with skill, NA pros have always been extremely overpaid compared to higher skilled European counterparts.
@JONNY M well the discussion was never about prize money, it was about skill. Prize money is irrelevant. In the strong runs C9 ever made he was middle of the pack, playing AVERAGE in every big win.
1.02 rating vs top 20 teams (and it only goes lower vs top 10 and top 5 teams) is not an exceptional player, just average. No one is debating if he had talent or not, just not exceptional talent.
@JONNY M
Stats may not be a perfect system, but it is way better system then money earned. Stats are individual, prize money is shared amoung the team.
I below average player can be carried into prize money but cannot be carried to decent stats. IE Hooxi.
@@JONNYM-ox4bonice coping
@@JONNYM-ox4bo Using your logic here, Xyp9x is the 2nd most skillful player of CS:GO history.
I'm from NA, and I literally thought Shroud was massively over hyped. He was good, and always great against players who aren't coordinated (pugging) but against a real team with real strats he crumbled, and sucked.
It's the same in his stint in Valorant. He has and has always had good aim, but he's just not good enough generally to be really up there.
Let's be real. Shroud was mainly an onliner. He's had issues on LAN with some tidbits of genius that was enough to overlay his general mediocrity. He's an great shot but lacked the mentality and drive to be a top tier pro which is why he's way better now as a streamer.
I think he had the mentality to try really hard. The main problem for Shroud was never accepting (except in 2015) to be an entry. Which is backwards logic to me when considering flick accuracy and movement we're the strongest aspects of his game.
Shroud is still good enough to play for EG.
Popularity has had a weird effect in the decline of society through social media derangement. Objective metrics about skill have just been thrown out, same for people seeking skillful content. Its all "well... I like that person more"
When initial reactions started to bubble after that stream, I thought “will shroud try to humblebrag and gaslight us into thinking that his talent was up to par but he just wasn’t serious” and you bet he did say it on Twitter
The ONLY reasonable debate for GOAT (there isn't one but the only conversations I will entertain) are dev1ce if you only care about championship totals above all else, or Niko if you hate AWPERS and still pretend the AWP is overpowered despite it being the hardest role to consistently play on tier 1 LAN.
multikill % per round. s1mple 26,6% shroud 24.8%
so statistics say that s1mple is the better multifragger.
Wait so Shroud had 1/4 rounds with multikills?
@@saratchandrab4384 according to his 2+ round kills yes.
But shroud has mostly played against other NA teams that are tier 2-3. S1mple has mostly played against other tier 1 teams in majors.@@nykxssss
@@theodorebagwell420 yea so that supports s1mples claim of being the superior multifragger even more no?
The UK is an island and it produces something.
Fish'n'Chips. Mainly.
Shroud has decent aim by CSGO pro standards but absolutely cannot perform under pressure. He is a god when nothing is on the line.
Shroud and Scream should have a duel for most overrated player in CSGO history.
what a joke. its literally like comparing balotelli with messi and its disrespectful. i thought launders really knows about csgo and most of the time i was trusting his input but when it comes to NA, copium is hitting hard i guess
Did launders say it? Wasnt it just freak
the only reason why shroud is good bcuz he plays in NA servers lol
Shroud had moments of sick play. S1mple at his peak, was unmatched by anyone.
Valorant the same. NA teams won the first masters and since a while European and South American pretty much dominate. EG at Champions being the sole exception. It really shifted
Fuck me was Cluj-Napoca really that long ago. Christ.
Yeah in every videogame I follow I always feel like the NA scene overhypes themselves and the personalities they have are not really interested in becoming the best they could but instead have a goal of franchising themselves on twitch as the ex pro gamer who now stomps people in other games with less competitive playerbases
Only getting 4 kills against that big lineup is actually criminal it's actually just tabsen and 4 bots
freakazoid is still mad at s1mple, but put on fire poor shroud with his stupid take))
Yeah, and it seemed that shroud was just trying to protect his brand by saying what he did.
If anything, shroud is one of the goat streamers and a marketing genius, for building his reputation, while not having accomplished much in CS and having no charisma. Dude can sell anything.
"Don't worry, its not a loading error" 🤣
Always thought Shroud is the most overrated player of all time. In a 3 year career he had 5 good events (Summer of C9 triple (ESL, DH, ESWC), ESL One Cologne 2014 debut, ESL Brasil). That's it. Biggest onliner of all time, apart from maybe joelz
How was this even a debate to begin with. It's insane to me that this is even a question.
There are 3 LARGE things i want to hit on in this video, because these kids really never payed any attention. It even escaped you and Thorin so let's dive in deeper. The thing i've hated the most about Shroud, has been how inept he has been with the CS settings and computers. It all ties together by the way. From when he started streaming, he got it into his mind to run max ultra graphics constantly. This has objectively ruined him every damn time whenever he went to lan, because ALL those PC's were either a bit or a LOT weaker. This is just the start, it gets worse. So there has been quite a few lans where you used to watch him on stream ultra-react and melt people in the most absurd ways possible, on HIS ULTRA EXPENSIVE SMOOTH HOME PC. Then we move over to lan, he was like a wet towel. Stung once and then he must re-wind entirely. I remember him talking about how the LAN PC's lagged and him having to adjust his settings, as if some royalty that had to downgrade and turn into a peasant - that's the vibe you got from him. In this respect, he is a perfect Canadian. But he is still a dude and got his pride like any other, so this slipped out of him maybe only ONCE after it happened and that's why it stuck in my mind. It's not what i expected from his all cheery personality. The second one, happened on stream after he played a nuke game and their team got wrecked. The dude admitted to being extremely nervous. That's aside from how he didn't play old nuke with any real confidence (probably direct correlation to that nervousness), and it also always used to be a big tell if he was gonna suck, when his reaction times were non-existent VS what they used to be. Way back, i only watched him every now and then. But his form when he was at home was extremely consistent. Some of the basic plays he did were honestly absurd. But that's when you think "what the hell is really going on here?".
This is where i found myself to be the perfect guy to at least poke at that mystery. I've played an inhuman amount of FPS games myself for fun, skill, etc. So i couldn't square the circle in how the hell all of his skill or his edge just vanished when on lan. And go figure. He is not a tactician. We always saw him snagging the latest graphics cards, upgrading to a 2k monitor ASAP, getting the latest 144, 240Hz monitor soon as possible. Ignoring the price, because he could afford it. So you are blatantly right in how the NA mindset sucks, many of them have commented on how ugly the game the EU players look like, but that's because freaking 150fps VS 600fps actually make the game silky smooth and hickups/lag/delay is annihilated. AND. Even if the LAN PC suck massive arse, then you still get 300FPS and you can play to your skill level. Poor teamwork, idiotic game settings that ruined him, nervousness, less self-capability with strategy made him hit a wall that he just couldn't circumvent. Had he listened, taken note of, or even moved to EU, maybe over time, he could have overcome a lot of these problems. Some, with ease. Others with dedication. I myself used to get explosively nervous just playing for fun, trying to clutch. But eventually you adapt, that is what serious drive at the top level over long time also do to a top player.
But you see my good man, these are notes i picked up from watching Shroud's stream after that one lan years and years ago by now. I am technically minded, so i know it mattered a whole lot. There was also some larger talk about how the PC's as that one lan sucked but i can't be bothered to research it. The stream-notes are probably only stuff an idiot like me would remember, because the VOD's are for sure long deleted and gone. But i will say that the general plays he did were actually absurdly great, it's the reason for why so many many many people started to believe. But me on the other hand? I wanted it to be tested, properly. And GO FIGURE, he flopped so hard when the seemingly home-bodied man had push come to shove. But as you said, this all fit that NA mentality. It make a sort of stagnation-mentality thrive, because they evidently neglected the end-game entirely. And along all this, i got so provoked and even a bit mad, I've never watched him again. This was like, 2016? At first you are just curious, but giving in like this? With such simple things to take care of? ARE. You. Having. A. Laugh?
Last note to add. At the time when he played, the true impact of top-level PC hardware actually mattered a whole lot more than what people know about. Objectively, scientifically. The frame times and internal perceived lag was extremely reduced if you had the money to build a top tier PC at the time. This makes pub stomping or even domination a breeze VS even great players that got just decent or bad computers. So of COURSE he became a pubstomping scrim star, the dude had the only available pay2win method going for himself. Ontop of practicing and streaming the game every day, against great players. But he set his own limitations in the end. And maybe the most sad part? All those PC upgrades meant nothing in the end. The dude's rich off of streaming anyways. If one got great tools and use them ineffectively, it doesn't mean anything at all. So now big boy Richard, you can see that i mostly agree with you. But it's in a way better & a whole lot worse than what people think. What i will wonder about in the end though. Is to what degree his skills could be applied into the game in the end. On paper, he would never be as good as simple. But also, he should have been a good player. But we'll never know, another day in NA.
Holy what a read... I agree that if shroud actually put the work in on a European team, without the great PC all the time, he may have had a better career. But he was NEVER, EVER going to be the best CS player, not even the bet NA CS player. He was at the very best, equivalent to lets say RPK from vitality, and even thats a very generous comparison IMO
@@PlanarianCheraldShroud was mechanically and mentally worse than Boros when he got kicked from Falcons, he wouldn't be able to operate in an EU org when a player better than him couldnt and was memed to death for it
@@PlanarianCherald hes very far away from likes of RPK who is a literal undisputed GOAT of CS Source lmfao.
@nikaabuladze3105 Yeah I was strictly comparing to his CSGO record, which is still more impressive imo than shroud. I will never understand why people think shroud was the NA S1mple...
Jesus Christ, there is absolutely no way they genuinely believe Shroud was that good, he was a pubstomper and bottle job on LAN at best.
Shroud is a few reincarnations short of touching S1mple's toes.
Shroud is a lot like TenZ. Nice aim, great pug star, can't make it past Tier 3 because they sucked at everything else.
true
Shroud fans huffin COPIUM
"No! He's clearly better than simple"
the gap between shroud and simple, is unironically the same as the gap between a regular player and shroud, lol dudes a pubstomper and thats fine. we also forget shroud tried and failed to go pro in valorant, a game full of former b-tier cs players.
even more outrageous than pita saying that hooxi is better igl than cArn lmao
But HooXi be hooxin'!
The problem with NA esports is that when players reach the top they start to think they are so invincible. However they forget there is an entire plethora of countries and players that are much better than them. This egoistic attitude is often the hinderance to more growth for many of these players.
jks wins one event and suddenly hes not the most overrated player
no one ever touched shroud for that title really, he's the GOAT of overrated CS players
I never said he was the most overrated player. I said he was the most overrated player by Reddit. That's still true based on posts after G2's win.
Shroud is not the best in anything. Maybe at complaining bout games
Shroud during his peak: 1.03 rating tier 1 event
S1mple during his peak: 1.33 rating on major
Enough said...
1.47 not 1.33 xd
For me, the only proof I need is that i missed shroud play and only heard about him as a streamer. I missed s1mple play in Flipside and Liquid and I STILL saw highlights, heard stories, the graffiti it goes on and on.
shroud didnt even have a 1 champion trophy let alone major, this comparison is like messi vs harry kane
The so called "NA hype", no esport to my knowledge has ever escaped it. Starcraft, WC3, CS, Valorant, LoL, Dota 2, HotS, OW etc...
Can someone get an AI to merge pics of Richard and thorin?
Creating the greatest bald ginger man, the first person in esports to host eleague pulling a beak face consistently throughout!
I felt like an evil person laughing so often throughout this video, i loved it though, love it when people back up their arguments with evidence like statistics which are objective and measurable data. Bro this video was so good, i subbed after mid way through it.
Still going on, saw Asmongold telling his stream that Shroud was the best player in CS lmfao
The numbers speak for themselves. NA CS is abysmal and it's not because the rest of the world is just so much better at the game, there are other mechanisms at play. NA CS culture is ill. Comparing someone who isn't even active in the game to one of the greatest players of all time illustrates how far gone this mans box is.
the cloutium joke had me cackling out loud. cheers as always
Shroud was better at adapting to new games quickly than playing CS. I used to love Freakazoid but he's felt out of touch for a few years now.
You don't need to be a media student to see how condescending the Shroud tweet was lol.
28:20 mental wingsofredemption reference there real tawk
Shroud is probably the biggest narcissist to ever disgrace the scene. And by probably, I mean definitely. I cannot understand why people like him. I can also distinctly remember shroud underperforming in every important tournament, bottom fragging consistently.
Well actually english people got taught during William the conqueror's occupation how to speak anglo-norman which is an old french dialect so they speak english now ;)
I don't even know why cs people would even back shroud at this point... he's taken every opportunity possible to talk shit and basically diminsh cs... I as someone from NA of course used to cheer for and generally mess with shroud as a player... but never understood why people liked him so much as a "personality" super overrated when it comes to that as well.. the idea of even comparing him with simple is funny... even tho they did practice together alot back in the day... But S1mple is the goat of cs and shroud was like maybe a top 10 NA player...
i agree. people at the top of their fields have something special more than just hard work. I'm sure mike tyson worked hard, but he was also naturally talented. i mean, he's 55 now, and look at him sparring. i don't think any amount of passion can have u close to that guy at that age.
Thank you for this video Richard, this shroud topic was a farce.
Straight bars about the jump bug
if flash is starcraft, s1mple is conter-strike
Thank you for helping keep cs alive richard!!!! Much ❤ to you and your family
i couldn’t watch this video past 10 minutes because i just couldn’t believe how awful freakazoids take was
"at best turned water into piss" fucking killed me
25:10 this is funny, untill the bug breaks the integrity of the game causing everyone to lose their shit out of fear of losing their job and then creating the huge shitstorm that is the coaching scandal... i mean, the bug was equally available for all teams to find...
OH YEAH BUT I SAW SHROUD DO A 180 SPIN WALLBANG HEADSHOT DEAGLE THROUGH A SMOKE ON NUKE IN RANKED ONCE SO I'D SAY IT'S PRETTY EVEN.
Great video, made me think a lot. Also laughed a lot love your channel
Richard, Ryan did play with s1mple. Maybe not on a team but they played together.
When, at best, you turn water into piss😂😂😂
I don't usually get the time to drop in on the stream but I stopped by one day and saw this. I thought I was having a stroke.
Not only did he not play with S1mple, but he says "You haven't seen what Shroud can do, I have". Like, it doesn't matter what he can do vs random pugs, what matters is what he can do vs pros when it matters, and that we all have seen. Sure, Shroud is good, but he isn't even in the same tier as S1mple, it isn't even close.
Shroud in his prime was one of the best NA players pretty much after Ska and Stewie. But s1mple in his prime was the best player on the planet. Wasn't even close. Even non-prime s1mple was better than prime Shroud on his best day. NA fanboys are delusional. S1mple is the messi of cs.
Rich, do you have blue light filter on your glasses?
Shroud better than S1mple ? Someone hit their head.
Valorant seems to be breaking that 18 month NA thing. It'll be interesting going into the future. The reality is esports is still incredibly young. Be fascinated to see what it is in 20 or 30 years. What kind of titles we are playing then even.
Simple is 10 times the player Shroud was and thats me being nice to Shroud
I used to really like shroud and this statement pissed off. How to even put shroud and simple in the same sentence, one failed at everything he tried in cs and the other is the undisputed goat of cs
The Starcraft 2 equivalent would be claiming that Idra is better than Serral.
Shroud is not in the same stratosphere as S1mple, this is 100% true. But the take that NA is somehow less committed to whatever competitive scene is wildly off the mark. NA CS is garbage and always has been. But as a region, NA is as competitive as any other region across all esports. Anyone who cares about comp in America don't see Shroud as anything more than a content creator with good aim. This is all hot garbage.
Jesus Christ Richard, calling us Canadians: Americans, kills me 😂 but when Shroud tweets that……. I guess there’s not much of a difference really is there
🤣🤣
You're americans
@@aelix56 sadly truth 😂
You and Mexico are Americans that don't know it yet. Soon.
USA and Canada makes up North AMERICA. So technically you are American, just not from the USA.
that video your using in the begging hes making a point... there is a huge difference to playing with these guys... his point was NO MEET THEM IN PERSON you can tell... you can tell.. ill bring up my shroud to fatality comparison again. CONTEXT is important.. the dude very cleary made his argument based in his personal experiences IN PERSON .. not from behind a keyboard or watching.. its his real life in person point and he made it clear.. I dont disagree with you take on NA players stalling. we got destroyed
It's an audacity some NA plebs are even implying this.
9 min and on is beautiful where he starts comparing the European discipline with America YOLO warfare
This is amazing Richard, cheers!
yeah, that tweet is smelly. "almost anybody that has a bit of passion can grind his way into playing lalafunte against me. and see that i am really just a humble guy. the debate is silly." would be a sincere reply
extremely based video. epecially the part about talent. people will cope and cry about never being the best after dedicating their whole life to something
Bro doesnt hold back 😭😭😭
the DELUSION that TWITCH brings to actual GAMERS is funny AF! sure Shroud was "PRO" but he's nowhere near close to any of the best CS GO players of ALL TIME!
i have been a shroud hater since 2017 and im NA guys an absolute tool.