Cat Motor Grader: Conventional vs Joystick Controls - Toromont Cat
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2013
- Find out why Joystick controls provide 78% less operator movement, provide unmatched visibility, reduce operator fatigue, increase multifunctional capability and improve operator comfort vs conventional steering wheel controls
I've never ran a grader.But have always been fascinated by them.
27yrs running grader I wont trade the "handcontrols" for anything.started out with the old "knuckle buster"levers luved it the 3rd day,loved plowing snow with it also.the hydrolics on my new cat are a tad touchy but am so used to them wont want a joy stick control wat so ever.i would be like playing video games for 12 hrs a day.
10/4 on the old knuckle busters. If they ever got started it took a boot sole to get it stopped!
Only been running a grader for 2 yrs. Started out on a komatsu galeon. Ran it for a year or so than it broke. So while it was down I ran a new Cat 12m. Took about 10 minutes to lear controls and 2 day to learn not to move the joy stick while maintaining county roads. I've changed job but still maintaining roads and now I run Cat 140H. I enjoyed running the joystick Cats but like others on here I enjoy the leavers alot more. You can feel what you are doing alot better.
Hey brother
In my world I most often have to settle for less comfort because I run older equipment that is paid off. I have a Cat 12F...cant afford a $40,000 or $50,000 grader. I use them only on commercial excavation projects. I will run newer excavators and rock-hammers because that's my main service...along with a nice mini-excavator and skid-steer. Been in business 30 yrs. Have out-lasted 75% of others just by being able to be out of debt as much as possible. BUT...I do love admiring new iron.
I loved my 140 H Also.
Reading the comments sounds like something that wasnt broke got "fixed" by a bunch of engineers.
Yea it's so easy now that your muscles cramp up from lack of use. Ask me how I know!
OEMs like electric over hydraulic because it's cheaper to build and more expensive to fix.
Great video!
I'm running an new 872g john deere and wishing I was back on a cat with joysticks I just makes your job so much easier and I love the visibility
First thing I saw was the conventional operator was more tentative to his rear view as opposed to the joystick operator fail completely in general to that respect.
I ran both and after 15 years on G and H's, i found myself far more fatigued on the M series. yeah you might move less but the movement is what keeps you from becoming tired. Running the M made my wrists hurt and having the extra concentration gave me headaches. I would take a steering wheel over a Joystick any day, 78% less movement simply means bigger chance of becoming over weight. Not to mention the lack of hydro feel is gone. Nahh, Cat should have given the option instead of phasing out the old style
I couldn't agree more! CAT would have been better off offering the M series as an option. John Deeres GP model has built in cross slope and a choice of steering options. I've always been a CAT man weather it's a scraper, loader, dozer, trackhoe and until the M series a blade fan.............
Edward Cunningham Cunningham exactly
That's what kills an operator is NOT moving. The body NEEDS to move!
2nd this!
Couldn't agree more, have used both and would take an H over an M any day. M s might be good on maintenance grading and haul roads but working around kerb doing final trim they are not as good as the G or H. Interesting thing is that Cat are bringing out the 140 in the levers and steering wheel again, funny how the wheel turns.
Conventional any day ! More feeling for fine grade not driving it around but making grade . Wheel lean with my thumb.
I like the old style have to hit all those fontrols at different times in rapod succession to do articulated turns and what not made it fun
To the people of Caterpillar I have some advice, if it ant broke don't fix it. This is a dumb design ther was no reason to take the steering wheel out of the machine or to replace the old style controls. Don't tell me something stupid like, you just have to get used to it and then you will like it, because I have been operating a 12m for 8 years and I still don't like it the H model was the best that Caterpillar ever had. Seems like yall are backing up now.
lee grissett agreed and Im only 30 yrs old.
lee grissett .well said,thats why john deere are laughing and cat are still trying to convince themselves they havent made a huge mistake.
Well the steering wheel needed to be modified to be faster other than that nothing was supposed to be changed
And pretty soon every machine cat builds will come with a treadmill so after work you can take a work out
I miss my H.
I agree im a blade hand an the H was best blade cat built I grew up learning on a G still like them .but fu''k the m have put around 1500 hours on one .it sucks bring the H back
At least put pilot lines in the up and down function that's all I ask. Pretty easy to bust curb with that M series junk steering. G and H always first choice
Joystick controls for the win
good video
God how did we ever make it all these years tugging on them heavy levers?. Do any of you old timers remember all the fuses we had to replace when the circle shift would hang up?, ha ha.
I remember the 'fuse' in my elbow if I wasn't serious with it!
Fjnunesaz, never operated no grader with circle shift fuses...? Changed plenty of shear pins though. Call me old. Call me set in my ways, but Cat 12E's and F's were the best graders ever made. Never felt this fatigue or busted knuckles everybody likes to talk about. How in the world would you stand up to operate one of these joy stick "wonders"? Old ain't always worse.
A little exagerated on the hydraulic side for emphasis. It's going to be interesting to see what's not working 10,000 hours/5 years later with all that fly by wire stuff.
A motor grader in general has way to many functional capabilities to be incorporating full joysticks. I prefer the old style this style is going to cause injury a lot more often due to mental fatigue. I hope not but its is highly likely. Levers and a steering wheel fit the grader just fine its just hand eye coordination. But this joystick and 40 button foolery is more hand, eye, mind, muscle, reaction, etc far to much for an operator to even have to imagine thinking about when he or she already has to watch out for there surroundings. Im 30 yrs old and from the video game era if u will, but this is totally out of hand to me. The motor grader is the elite machine in earth moving as far as versatility and importance. It does a lot requires a lot operationally and the old school style was and is not for the discombobulated as is. Now CAT throws this into the equation as if they were creating a more efficient and easy way to operate the grader. Well this is a failed design I can tell you that now. The learning curve to get to optimal operator status on this is going to be through the roof. And if you know like I know companies in this industry dont have time to wait on someone to learn how to get good before they get fast. And that is important with any peace of equipment. But yeah the construction industry is always pressed for time and "good" operators are few in and far in between. Im getting better each day working my way up to the motor grader but if this is what I have to look forward to I will stick with all the other machines. I vote for the H series to come back. As for my company thankfully we have 5 old school motor graders that roar with effortless power so I should be straight for now
I'll never run levers again. The speed and control offered with joysticks are unmatched. Removed the radial tires too on the 140M, as the speed at which the joystick controls offers causes radial tires to hop, causing washboard finish. Not enough fingers on hands to get joystick level production and finesse out of lever controls. Joysticks allow "applying butter to a piece of bread", at 20 klms per hour.
long hours in whiteouts what would the difference be in the graders....... some times 18 hours, I don't think the joystick would be that great.
They aren’t great in snow.
I have been running graders for a few years when I have to, but have never operated a lever machine. I learned with joysticks and currently run a 16M. I'd be lost trying to run one with levers.
Indeed! it's two differents worlds!
LOL, it appears from the video that you don't have to look where you are going or what you're doing with joysticks. I would be much more convinced if the operator would have had his feet propped up and seat reclined with the joysticks.
Dank Cummins i have over 5000 hours operating both styles, since 1992.
With the new M series motor grader, at times I have looked down at my feet on a long run, and realized they are crossed, and propped over to one side. Of course sitting upright with both feet ready is proper way to run this machine, but I can get relaxed in these new blades.
The joystick ones are so much easier. But when you first start, your winrow may look a lot like a snake lol.
hahaha mine sure did
joystick controls are not as functional as conventional controls and every old time operator will tell you the same thing.
leonard seigo I am driving this motor grader
Conventional controls whats the hydralic or what is it connected to.
Try to save yourself when you're pulling a 2 to 1 slope 30 foot down and you may hit a rock then you have no chance with joysticks
Amen fish!
The joy sticks probly nice but as far as mechanical issues go it takes more man hours to tear the cab apart or find a wire harnesses ect. From the conventional hydro over hydro finding the valve that may be stuck or pin play in the sticks better that removal of the seat and dash depending on were the short may be. Joystick good for excavator but in the handles of a grader that alot of problems in one Joystick if problems occur the wire harnesses electric valves ect the conventional you can trace it straight down to the valves under the cab just me but the piano style is what I learned on really not much effort because for a smooth finish your not adjusting much just up or down on one side or the other for a finish cut and forward and reverse right next to you 1 2 3 4 5 gears put in 1st a use the pedal for power and but I didn't like the cat wheel loaders with the forward reverse but on the pilot steering wheel the old lever on the side worked better in my opinion like the older kawasaki Komatsu and cat B and G models just me I guess
Very smoth if joystick
The joystick 🕹 controls are awesome
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Told the shop order me a new 12H today and they told me they didn't make them anymore. I tried the joysticks years back and they won't worth a damn so I guess I will keep the old 12H till it's time to retire
Damn so a month ago you still thought cat made a 12h, but you say you tried a M series. You gotta get with the times man.
P E R F E C T !!! #Like640🚜
have a 1947 212 on the farm... Also run a 140m in La. and Tx . over the past 3years ... Can create the same result with both machines .. lot faster with 140m plus radio and a/c ... But i have never gotten stuck in 212 ... also the 212 will still be running 2047 .... 140m still running a 100 years from now ?.... too many electrical part and jungle humiliate in La and Tx ..
Nowhere for the tuckerbox in the m series 😂
I like conventional
Komatsu have hexangular cab anda típicamente controla,Cat do nota try It????
I had a choice between a brand new Joystick cat or an old cat 160 with conventional controls………I chose the old one and never regretted it.
For Old guys like me stick with what you know. All my years of muscle memory becomes useless in a new machine.
Try managing a coffee, sandwich and a phone while keeping a straight line in an H 😂
شنو السعر مال الكريدر مستبوشي في الدينار العراقي
Cat high quality
78%!........I'm more fatigued trying to run the new model than I ever was after a 12 hr. shift on a G or H model! The M model has been made for the " Nintendo" generation not for those who know how to operate a blade!
AMEN!
I would rather run a pony motor start 12 with the jaw clutches that even THINK about one of those 'game boys'. This is what we get when someone can't leave a good thing alone! Bunch of morons. Computer geeks.
Why wouldn't they make them for the nintendo generation? You and you're H gonna be around in thirty years to build roads and clear snow?
I'm thinking no standing any more, I'm a retired HDR/W Cat mechanic.......
with everything Mechanical /or the later models Hydraulic direct, no fusses....
dunno no fusses.......
I was a sit or stand up operator, Joy sticks are fine, the film was designed around to sell
old school to the new wheel. fight it if one likes, Nothing is ingrained on stone with this
stuff. It is what it is........
Any blade operator worth his salt is smooth & easy going,,,,,,,,, not jumping about,
The other matter with this propaganda BS film, who ever it was who put it out, joy sticks
or lever action the looking around is the same, required no matter what. backing up & sizing things up still remains the same; The film an insult, blowing smoke up peoples back side.
That is one job that doesn't go to just any operator, typically it went to our older operator's.
Nice dog & pony show....... but no cigar...................
Not EVEN a cigar. And what is an older operator with arthritis going to do when you can't feel the little dainty thumb wheels and buttons. Give me a blasted lever that I can GRAB and not worry about which one.
Usando os joy stick seu braços atrofiarão, não conseguirá sustentar seu próprio copo de café.
I operated the Cat 120 grader in the Army in 80's then they went to the Cat 140 G I hated it sitting down. The only thing that I liked was the heated cab for snow removal.
Gredar opeater is my dream and gol
No thanks to the joystick> If that much movement is to much who is doing the hand work. It is me on my grade crew.
I would rather operate the Cat 120 road grader .
Operated a per war Austin western grader, making airdromes ie Fairford Gatwick ect , till fumes made chest bad. Used to put two coins one on top of other, and take top one off with centre blade .
I started on a F model then ran a 12 G for 10 years now I'm running a 12H but the company I work for thought they would upgrade me to a M model after a few minutes I caught on to the controls and I can honestly say joysticks suck the absolute worse day on a grader I've ever had every time I turned my blade would move up or down and at the end of the day my fucking arms were killing me I liked the visibility and the comfort of the cab but but the controls are only good for those that don't know how to run a grader and use GPS
I still slobber on myself when I come across a Grader God!
the one thing that cat got wrong on the old graders no tiller like avelling barford
the only thing I see that I like about the M model is the visibility, I've been a G and H. operator for 31 years I cut my teeth on a old knuckle buster, this joystick shit looks like a pain in the ass but this new generation of so called operators or to be honest seat monkeys and GPS which by the way I work circles around I still use my string, paint and engineers ruler in tenths, at work I turn out more completed work that a 2 man GPS crew and my finish rock is within a 1/4" compared to GPS finish work which is plus or minus a tenth so of the really experienced GPS guys can get it within a half inch, it's nice to know that my worn out eyes out do a million dollars with of the latest and greatest high tech grading systems. Y'all can have the joystick shit me and the rest of the real grader men will stick with our old stuff
More money to fix!!!!
Gerson Albuquerque
Francisco Gabriel Mulato
ENCRENCA
ENCRENCA
GERSON ALBUQUERQUE
DE FORTALEZA DO GABRIEL
Vergonzoso.....si trabajamos sentados......Cat ha revisado y por eso tiene los tamaños comerciales como toda la vida de Dios.......porque no hay muchos que se adapte a algo tan "complicado"
I would Still Would Rather Play The Old Conventional Piano machine, operator friendly not so much computer joy stick an other computer problems
Bet it puts you to sleep running it. I bet you'd wanna trade it in after a few thousand hours ,because I sure wouldn't want to have to fix it. Electric over hydraulic is also slower in reaction time compared to to plain hydraulic. I bet the learning curve takes a month to get it into your head where you can blade without thinking. Wonder if there is a failsafe in case the switches hang or blow fuses. Runaway Cat.
actually it has back-up steering and braking in case of engine failure.
Shane Gurney I thought so too until I stalled the M on a hill. Back up steering did not function
zeke thefishgeek learning curve is only a couple hrs if your good at grading although the M series is a roughing machine not precise like H&G
finish!! pardon me!
Sir mujhe garedar cikhna hai no chahiye
Hola yo llevo 18 años trabajando con motoniveladoras ,una motoniveladora bomag 110 .no la vais a conocer se vendieron pocas unidades ,es parecida a la o&k f106 A lleva mandos tradicionales y dependiendo el trabajo , trabajo con una cat 12g y para mi personalmente, las motoniveladoras me gusta con los mandos tradicionales con los mandos tenemos sensibilidad.con jostics .no la serie m es muy bonita .per con jostics.no me gusta nada. Siempre me ha encantado la serie g la h k la m ,solo por los jostics.ya no me gusta la cat.y seguro que problemas de electrónica tendran y encima no puede arreglarlo un mecanico tradicional tiene que ser un electricista.de Caterpillar.otro no lo quiere tocar. Y la máquina parada. Con la g y h .no tienen ese problema. Me encantaba la Caterpillar . que saco la m. Ahora mismo me gusta mas las nuevas komatsu. Que siguen con los mandos tradicionales. Un saludo.
hard on the hands and wrists from doing it every day but id take that over the old conventional volvos anyday
The joy sticks suck.........40 years on blade 800 plus hours on an M series hate it with a passion.
...And before you know it, that operator will be so fat he cant fit in the cabin. Why this allergy against a little movement ? :D
EXACTLY! To move a little is to stay limber. Hard enough after a day much less sitting and stagnating!
Boeing vs airbus
joysticks = far less fatigued after a 12 hour shift
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100% less feeling on the blade, feeling the blade is unmatched with just seeing if, increased capability of trying to grow a 6th finger to do two things at the same time, improved operator comfort yeah right ask my wrists. JOYSTICK SUCKS!!!! CHANGE MY MIND
H series is the best,,, M series too much problem on steering
PASS.
Get a john deere
je trouve que c est nul les nouvelle série de niveleuse car m
I've run both styles, joy sticks give way better control. I vote joy sticks.
They both do the same job.
ergonomics win everytime in my book... M series is far superior to the H, in every way, hands down!
What a crock of shit...operated G's &H's for 30 years and M's for 7 years...give me a H any day... the H guy (who iz the same kp S the M)...was deliberately looking around for no reason ....vision all round is far better i a H or G than a M......would love a duel anyday with a M operator...batters ...Plateaus..roadworks to levels...drains. Sorry Caterpillar you went backwards with your graders ...