Why Rey Is Not A Mary Sue | The Official Guide
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- The Year is 2020, and the Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy is now over. However, the criticism of its main protagonist has not stopped. Rey has been called a Mary Sue ever since the release of The Force Awakens, and this continued with the releases of The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker. This Two and a Half Hour Video Essay covers me debunking this criticism of Rey being a Mary Sue, while also explaining why I feel Rey is one of the best characters in the Saga. So here is the Official Guide on Why Rey is Not A Mary Sue.
Here are the links to the videos of the music that were used in this Video Essay:
-Solo A Star Wars Story Official Trailer Music Piano Tutorial & Sheets: • Solo: A Star Wars Stor...
-STAR WARS - Rogue One Final Trailer (OrchestralPiano Cover): • STAR WARS - Rogue One ...
-STAR WARS - Rogue One Trailer (Piano Cover) [Beginner]: • STAR WARS - Rogue One ...
-Star Wars The Last Jedi - Trailer Music - Piano: • Star Wars: The Last Je...
-Kylo Ren's Redemption STAR WARS - Ben Solo (Piano Cover) [Intermediate]: • Kylo Ren's Redemption ...
-Star Wars - The Force Theme (Piano Version): • Star Wars - The Force ...
-Star Wars The Force Awakens OST - March of The Resistance Synthesia Piano MIDI RodgerC26: • Star Wars The Force Aw...
-Star Wars The Force Awakens - The Jedi Steps - Piano: • Star Wars: The Force A...
-Rise of Skywalker - Battlefront 2 Trailer STAR WARS (Piano Cover) [+sheets]: • Rise of Skywalker - Ba...
-STAR WARS - Battlefront 2 Trailer Theme (OrchestralPiano Cover): • STAR WARS - Battlefron...
-Star Wars - The Rise of Skywalker Final Trailer (Piano Cover) [+sheets]: • Star Wars - The Rise o...
-Star Wars The Last Jedi - Teaser Trailer Music - Piano (Synthesia): • Star Wars: The Last Je...
-Star Wars The Force Awakens - Trailer Music - Piano (Synthesia): • Star Wars: The Force A...
-Rey's Theme - Star Wars The Force Awakens [Piano Tutorial]: • Rey's Theme - Star War...
#Rey #MarySue #StarWars #sequeltrilogy
For business inquiries please email:
-thegoldmanbusiness@gmail.com
Who else watched through the whole thing
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V
I did!
Working on it!
I’ve never really felt one way or another about this topic because I’m biased towards the Sequels as they’re the first Star Wars movies I’ve seen in theaters (my parents thought the prequels would scare me). I haven’t yet finished the video but I really like the argument you’ve made so far and I like seeing people defend these movies.
I appreciate that, thank you for watching
This is so true for me. I’ll always love the prequels when I remember stuffing my head in a theater seat during the end of Force Awakens.
All parts have their timestamps here your welcome
1: What is a Mary Sue 1:45
2: The Force Awakens 9:00
3: The Last Jedi 1:04:06
4: The Rise of Skywalker 1:35:15
5: External Material 2:14:29
6: Conclusion 2:20:50
Beautiful. I feel like this should be pinned or something.
So garbage meet bb8 bb8 I like rey the act bored the fanon trilogy
I just finished the video... DUDE!!!!!!!!!!🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯✊✊✊✊✊👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
You succeed, gold man. The force will be with you, ALWAYS
I want to point out a few things that are basically the same as I said in my previous comment: we don't need an explanation for Rey's powers. I like how you figured out it was all about the dyad, but even so, her fighting against the praetorian guards isn't THAT weird. Rey already knew how to fight, she trained herself a little bit with the lightsaber in ahch-to, and obviously the force enhanced her abilities. What we were shown is enough to understand why Rey could stand her ground against the guards. At the beginning of the fight, Rey and kylo were blocking the guards' rampage together, but then they got separated, and while kylo was fighting most of the guards himself, Rey was struggling against THREE. Just THREE. That alone shows us how experienced kylo is compared to rey. And obviously the fact that one guard alone stood her ground against her while kylo was fighting more at that same moment... well, already says a lot xd.
So I don't think every skill Rey has needs to be explained by the force dyad. People just overreact about everything she does. But it's just them being toxic. Don't listen to them.
On the other hand, you did good explaining why she could do force lightning, but again, the force dyad explanation was unnecessary. Training in the force doesn't imply that you become stronger or better. It's more about indoctrination on one of its sides. The jedi indoctrinate their students in the light, while the sith in the dark. As yoda points out, the dark side isn’t more powerful, it’s just easier, and that’s why it is easy to fall for it. That’s basically what happened to rey. She fell easily for her negative emotions and did force lightning by accident. And this isn’t even the first time we’ve seen this. Count dooku did force lightning for the first time when he was a jedi, by accident and before meeting sidious. So training is more about indoctrination and perfecting abilities more than to become stronger in those skills. Anyone can use the force without training as we’ve seen multiple time before the sequels.
Just that, you don’t need to relate all of Rey's abilities to the force dyad. Apart from that… BEST VIDEO ABOUT THE SEQUEL TRILOGY I’VE EVER SEEN!!!! 🙌
About the Force calling her to the lightsaber... notice how this happens right after Finn leaves her, an act that reminds her a lot the day her parents left.
Immediatly after, she hears her voice as a child, so... The Force is calling her because she needs to let go of them.
Thats my interpretation.
Also, I never noticed that, thank you for mentioning this. That adds a new layer to this movie for me
An interesting theory. But I feel like this tends to permeate a lot of the defense for these movies. It seems like it needs a lot of workshopping beyond itself to make it consistent with itself.
@@lukefrederiks5906 I don't think it needs. It is just something I've realized watching The Force Awakens.
For all the fans who don’t agree, don’t take personal shots at The Gold Man. He’s one of the few SW RUclipsrs that posts positive videos and it’s refreshing. Now, fans have a right to disagree about Rey being a Mary Sue and should make their points why. But keep it constructive, he’s a good guy!
That only seems fair. I like civil debates.
Yep
Don’t worry, I can handle myself but thank you
The Gold Man it’s always good to have others that look at for you in any case. Allies are a good thing, don’t overlook them. For my ally is the Force and a powerful ally it is.
From the comments so far everyone is being civil.
I seriously doubt anyone who commented negative things actually watched the whole thing.
I love the fact that piratically all of the negative comments are from people who haven't watched the video or people who don't have any arguments. That pretty much tells you everything you need to know about the Rey haters.
@@gavinmyatt5589 Exactly. They go straight to insults. I honestly think some of them haven't even seen the films and want an excuse to hate 'strong women'
I'd go one step further and say a lot of the hate comes from bot accounts that were made by a really sad lonely guy. It might be a bit far fetched, but it helps me sleep at night to think there's not as many braindead idiots out there as the internet makes it seem.
@@GigaDonk99 I'd believe it.
They did too, you're just making assumptions.
I was pretty well convinced before watching your videos that Rey was a Mary Sue. Watching your content however has given me a new perspective. I think your points were well thought out and well stated. I'm actually looking forward to watching the sequel trilogy again. Thank you.
She had some Mary sue moments but there are more canny ones
I think u should reconsider, so many of his points can be refuted it’s just laughable
@@sartajpurewal5429 I like to keep an open mind, so I'd love to learn from you too. What are some examples?
@@FairyKid64 well I’d like to consider his arguement about why Rey can beat kylo, where he shows that force diagram, the more you commit to one side of the force the more powerful you are. This just is not how the force works, otherwise how could mace windu have beaten PALPATINE if this was true ?how could he be a Jedi master, he uses both sides of the force but for good, he used his emotions. Jedi and SITH are just ways of teaching to use the force not the only way to become powerful in it. But consider what he says about kylo, he states that his injury and killing his father makes him conflicted and further towards the light ?but the complete opposite is true, SITH use pain to become stronger, snoke even says killing your father will complete ur training and commit to the dark side, if anything based on his own diagram kylo should be more powerful not weaker, and Rey commits to the force when she doesn’t know what it is in terms of using it?, remember zero traing in using the force.
@@FairyKid64 another point he states is that Rey letting the tentacle monster loose doesn’t end up better for Rey, because rey could have let chewy and solo out and they could have just walked off the ship, and the monster killing the pirates, is well he says “you don’t know that” but we do because we literally see it, it’s like he thinks that if Rey let them go the pirates would also just let them leave.
I’m only 20 minutes in, but thank you so much for doing this. The originals are not perfect and the sequels are not garbage. Each film has value and people are too quick to shit on everything.
My pleasure, thank you for watching
Couldn’t of said it better
The sequels are garbage and you are shitting on the grave of star wars by defending this trash.
@Jibbs I know watch return of the Jedi they say it's the real ending
This video has over 3.5 thousand comments, yet after more than a year The Gold Man still replies to the majority of them is commendable to say the least.
The fact that he is respectful and polite in replying to some of the most hateful comments is why this channel is my favourite Star Wars channel on RUclips.
To The Gold Man: Thank you so much for being a positive example of how to be not just a great SW fan, but a decent person in general! That's a rare find on the internet.
This means so much to me, thank you!
[licks the ratio]
"It's salt."
😂😂😂
@Stripey Arse the FO would also have fleets else where... on top of that, the Supremacy. And on top that (though it never lasted much longer) it acted partially as a factory to manufacture more smaller Star Destroyers.
@@therumtummugger420 the Sequels never told how big the FO is.
@@randomestchannel i estimate at the time just after TFA, ~60 star destroyers, 2-4 dreadnaughts and 1 Mega dreadnaught but it’s hart to be sure. After TLJ it’s much less because of the Holdo maneuver, probably about 40 star destroyers, 2-3 dreadnaughts and ~100 smaller cruisers and frigates
Also consider Kylos emotional state immediately after killing his father
Edit: and so you did 😂
I consider everything
And being hit by chewies bowcaster
45:39 And then Rey did a backflip, snapped the bad guy's neck, and saved the day.
🧐
@@thegoldman25 But is all honesty thank you for putting so much work into this video and ending it with such a generally positive message.
I understood that reference
Whoopsie
@@ncrawford5673 So did I
This video is criminally underrated.
I was one of those people who considered Rey a Mary Sue because I didn't like her at first and because almost everyone else seemed to not like her either. It wasn't until recently that I've finally started getting tired of all the incessant Sequel bashing. This video was like the nail in the coffin.
Beautifully explained points. Not only do I have reason to never consider Rey a Mary Sue again, but I think I also have a lot more respect for the trilogy because of this video.
That means a lot to me, I’m glad you appreciate the trilogy more. Thanks for watching!
This whole channel is underrated
So what are reys flaws?
I think people just use the term "Mary Sue" too lightly, and misunderstand what it actually means. The problem isn't that Rey has no flaws... Its that she never faces any consequences for her actions (like the fake out death with Chewy when she force lightning zaps the ship). She's a great character dragged down by a trilogy with no plan and a lot of flaws that could have easily been avoided.
Yeah she does have some power scaling inconsistencies but besides that that’s all
Yeah, no. She still is one. You guys are just hardcore coping that these films are good when they're trash
@@lapplandkun9273 Buddy the Star Wars films are all very subjective except the first two are good
@@Theagentofchaos-r5q cope. ROTJ was also good. Sorry you can’t admit the sequels have bad writing like the prequels, but at least the prequels didn’t destroy lore. It only had shitty acting. The sequels had shit acting along with a terrible incoherent storyline and bad characterizations
@@lapplandkun9273 now I thought the acting was great in the last Jedi and The force awakens everyone felt like they fit their role and I don’t pay much attention to the Star Wars lore
great video you changed my mind in a lot of things about the sequel trilogy thanks for that
That's so great to hear! I am assuming you mean in a positive way btw
@@thegoldman25 yes in a positive way (sorry not to make it clear)
Now this is the good, wholesome Star Wars content I need more of in my life. Thank you Golden Man!
thank you for the kind words!
I usually do not comment, and do not even "Like" videos, I tend to be a passive user on the platform, and just "share" a content with the people I know if I think it's worth it enough.
Well, this time I had to "Like and comment" not only because you're work is amazing, and this video is splendid, but also because the "Dislikes" are TOO MANY and it doesn't make any damn sense; I'm sure half of these people didn't even watch the video, and it drives me crazy, so i felt the need to compensate, even if with just one small like.
Great content and thanks again for your analysis!
Thank you so much for the support! it really helps me and the video out!
Star Wars fans definitely have a problem with abstract concepts, inferences, characters not telling the absolute truth 100% of the time, and putting themselves in characters shoes.
100%
Thank you for not referring to people as sexist. No one is going to be won over by an argument by first calling someone a name.
When it quacks like a duck....
@@yungmuney5903
Bad writing is Bad Writing no matter the Sex.
This has to be one of the greatest videos about the sequels!
Man I share a lot of your points, and I've been trying to explain this to others but they just don't want to hear a good argument
I've just subscribed, great channel!!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
The sequel trilogy is hot garbage
@@bamaboyz8978 no but i respect your opinion
@@alessandroarboleda1143, I respect yours as well
@Space Jesus, yeah because it sucks, sequel defenders can piss off, they aren’t true fans
The term mary sue has become so commonly thrown around nowadays that people don't even know what it means. Rey certanly is not and I have been saying this since the very beginning. While I'm someone who didn't really like the Last jedi at all, The Last jedi DESTROYED her chances of ever being a mary sue. ALl she does in that movie is fail. great video!
I completely agree, thanks for watching!
I don’t think we watched the same Last Jedi. It like ultra super mega solidified her being a Mary Sue. Though once again, the problem is not her or Daisy. This is Disney and Rian Johnson not creating a clear vision for a character. I see so much potential she could have had but it got squandered.
its a trope it usually was a niche term used in the fanfiction community it only became mainstream because of Rey normies don't know what Marysue means just look at tvtropes or even trace back to the original Marysue whom share many traits with Rey but even Rey makes Marysue look basic in comparison, but in other words don't give your character TOO many traits that make them OP to the point of ridiculous
Could you name a character that _is_ a Mary Sue?
@@eras1066 In my opinion Bella from twilight is a perfect example of a mary sue. I think katniss from hunger games is a bit of a mary sue(which I know a lot of peolpe may disagree with, but whatever). Lestat from the vampire chronicals and Harry Potter are also examples of a gary stu.
As someone that fully believed and was on board the Mary Rey train for all these years. I won't lie.... this video has completely changed my mind and I am excited to watch the trilogy in a different light now. Don't get me wrong I do enjoy the sequel trilogy, despite its flaws. Well made video, thanks for this.
I’m glad to hear it! Let me know what you think upon rewatch
I actually got tired of explaining this to people so I’m happy I bumped into this channel. Now I can just share a link. Great video btw, amazing work!
Thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed it
I'm sure most people you explained it to could cite multiple videos providing far more comprehensive and reasoned arguments to the contrary.
@@doubleyellows6742 yeah but that’s also simply because they aren’t trying to understand the points. Most videos on this topic that are about Rey is a Mary Sue ignore half of all the stuff that proves the opposite.
@@casperderop7676 Only the poorly done ones, the good ones reference the usual defences people make of Rey - and videos like this one actually invent criticisms that hardly anybody is actually making (e.g. Rey using her staff to beat the two goons, which is entirely reasonable) and then respond to them as if that adds to their case. I'd suggest you watch someone like MauLer, who actually knows character writing convention.
@@casperderop7676 what are reys flaws?
A masterful character analysis, worthy of recognition in the Archives of the Jedi Order. Yoda tells Luke that what he takes with him is what's in the in the cave. Qui-Gon says your focus determines your reality. I love Star Wars and I love Rey Skywalker. This analysis has strengthened my love for the Sequel Trilogy, which I already loved. Thank you. May the Force be with you.
Thank you for saying that, it means a lot, I’m glad you enjoyed the vid!
Same
Sad thing is people that need to hear this won't
yep. Smart fans already knew this, it's the dumb ones that need to see it lol.
Sharing always helps!
Franchise Fanatic so by dumb ones, are these the people that disagree?
@@thegoldman25 I've tried and the one I wanted they said
"the arguement is kinda invalid when you need a 2 hrs plus video to explain why she isn't a Sue. Imo anyway"
@@XxAegremxX yeah because they are wrong.
You are the chousen one. You will bring balanse to the fandom... *dies
I will not fail you
*insert padme analin meme* You coming back a force ghost right :)
Right? :I
Interestingly, what a lot of people miss is that the trope namer was actually satire, and the bit about how characters like that should be avoided in any other context was kinda the point. It wasnt enough that its plot had unexpected points, she actually gets away with things that would be illegal both in the federation itself and in the us at the time, and other characters do illegal things to and for her. The original series had had many such characters, but most people miss that because they weren’t main characters.
Literally 90% of Star Wars fans: “I’m gonna pretend I didn’t see that.”
Amazing work though, this must have been a massive undertaking
It was a month of hard work, but I paid off. Thanks for watching!
The Gold Man good for you
Razh 80 yay
considering it's mostly made up the already debunked standard defences for the films, it's not going to terribly convincing
Tristen Bezayiff like how did he make it up it was right there in the video
im rewatching the whole thing you changed my LIFE man
I swear 90% of the dislikes are from the “Star Wars fans” that clicked on the video just to dislike it. Just give it chance jeesh
🤷🏼♂️
Or perhaps they did give it a chance and weren't convinced.
@@TheMasterofDespair this
@@mikejae2889 Thank you.
I can't understand why there is more dislikes than likes
This video is incredible
It's probably just haters who havnt seen the entire video
I appreciate it! I never worry about the “haters”
Thanks a lot for calling me a hatter, just because I think Rey is MaREY sue.
of course, when I say that, I generalize. and I'm not talking about you disagreeing with the idea of the video, you have the right and therefore are not haters. I'm talking about those who put a red thumb without even looking at it in full. so once again I am not targeting anyone specific, you have the right to find that rey a mary sue, and it is good that our opinions differ. I wish you a happy new year and may the force be with you ^^
(Sorry if my english i's bad, I'm French ^^)
@@dangi6516 Luke and Anakin too right?
@@tam2237 I will quote another comment :
"Nor Anakin or Luke are mary sues and here's why. Let's start with Anakin. Now the supposed Mary sue arguments from Rey fan boys is hear the most is him winning the pod race and destroying the droid control ship. First of he's has competed in Pod racing before as it's mentioned in the movie and therefor its safe to assume that he's been practicing so he knows how to drive one. Secondly he barely knew what he was doing during the Naboo space battle. His ship was on autopilot and once he got the ship under control he couldn't even steer and flew right into the thing and shot randomly which caused it to blew up. While it's a dumb moment, it's not a mary sue moment nor does that make Anakin a Mary sue. IF ANAKIN WAS A MARY SUE HE WOULDN'T EVEN HAVE TURNED TO THE DARK SIDE ffs. A characters supposed skill level is not all of it when it comes to Mary sues. Anakin's flaws is what lead him to the dark side.
Now let's talk about Luke then. The common argument i hear there is that he blew up the death star with supposdly no piloting training. This is false and you would have known if you paid any attention to the movie. Luke has flying experience and the film mentions it quite a lot. In one particular moments we know that Luke had a T-16 ship which he flew back home.
T-16 and X-Wings are both manufactured by the same company therefore they are very similar to fly. On top of that he almost failed at his mission if it weren't for Han to intervine the last second. If you still think Luke is a mary sue then how does it come that in the next movie that he gets attacked by Wampa and needed to be saved. Then he went to Dagobath and struggles with training. On top of that later on he disregards both Obi wan and Yoda and goes to face Vader and save his friends which caused him to lose his hand and almost die. Mary sues are always right and it's the characters who question them who is wrong but here it's the complete opposite and Luke have to deal with the consequence of his actions"
.
47:00 actually no, it's just one of the "Mary Sue moments", because the main villain of the film changes his goal, and instead of directly finding the map that is under his nose, he captured Rey, instead of kill her, like he did with the old man at the beginning of the movie, who also saw the map. How, please explain to me (no need, this is a rhetorical device), you can pull out a whole map from a person’s head, despite the fact that she saw it for several seconds, transfer it to a navigation computer with exact coordinates and so that it all turns out to be correct, I think this is 200% failed idea.
Yes, at the beginning of the film, Rey is a likeable character, not that it coincides with the conditions in which she grew up, but this can be forgiven. But then it gets worse, the plot is bending under Rey, the characters grow dumber, weaker, show mercy unusual for them (Kylo), run to hug (Leia), although they see her for the first time, and even trust to such an extent that they entrust the mission, the solution of which was the main goal of first movie. Yeah, there's definitely no reason to consider her a Mary Sue.
This is actually one of the few things that makes sense based off real world knowledge. When a person looks at something their brain actually remembers it completely. It's been shown that sometimes people with seizures can repeat languages they don't think they know because they've heard it before. So kylo looking into her mind to see a map she's looked at before makes perfect sense
@@thegoldman25 ok, imagine he saw the map, what next? How to translate it into coordinates, translate it into a computer and so on? There are a lot of assumptions that do not look convincing. Also, there are still problems with this: why he did not take the droid, instead of this not a reliable method, when he was practically in his hands. And if this is such a reliable method, why not get the map out of Lor San Teka's head? As I wrote before, Kylo altered his goal for no reason and behaved in an totally unusual way only because of bending the plot by Rey's Mary Sueness.
@@alexanderkruglov5199 she could restore the faith in the Jedi which is what snoke is concerned of and she’s showing the show of a emotion which is dot dark side
@@Theagentofchaos-r5q and none of this is in the movie. The viewer should not invent character motivations for the writers.
@@alexanderkruglov5199 I wasn’t making that up it was more of an hypothesis and plus this wouldn’t matter much because Rey used an staff before so she has experience with close ranged weapons and kylo was shot with a Wookie cross bow
I agree with you on a lot of points. I would almost say that Rey is not a mary sue, but there are some things unexplained.
1) Luke, after being trained by Yoda, couldn’t lift up the x-wing. Rey, after leaving Luke, was able to lift multiple tons of rocks. Even Yoda struggled to save a support beam from hitting anakin and obi wan. Yet rey reached out one hand and did it with ease.
2) yes she may have had experience scavenging and what not, but when did she ever learn to pilot a large spacecraft such as the millenium falcon. Luke piloted an x wing but WAS UNABLE to pilot the falcon. Proof is in ANH in the cantina scene, Luke says price is outrageous and he could buy his own ship for that price ‘yeah, but whos gonna pilot it, you?’ ‘You bet I could’ yet they still go to Han and Luke doesnt even assist as copilot.
I agree that Rey DOES have flaws. However, she is also more powerful than reasonable. I dont care that she can force heal. I care that there are no repurcussions for her. She is not even fatigued after force healing either time, yet Kylo dies from it? I want continuity.
I think the reason I hate the sequels so much is a) continuity like mentioned, and b) missed potential, such as Finn. You have such a cool character who is obviously force sensitive, but throw him aside [insert ‘I dont wanna play with you anymore’ meme]
I do think you did a great job articulating your points and they were very clear. Good job!
fair enough, thanks for watching!
1. Kylo died from force healing because he had already had so much of the force taken out of him by Palpatine. It took all the strength he had to force heal Rey.
2. The reason Luke doesn't help pilot the Falcon is because Han definitely would not have let him, and why would he. He already he Chewbacca who was very experienced with the Falcon. The only reason he let Rey co-pilot is because Chewy was injured. I think Luke could have done a decent job piloting the falcon if he was given the chance, just like Rey did a DECENT job. She literally hit five things while taking off
3. I guess the only thing I can say about Rey being able to lift the rocks is: 1. She is a Palpatine. 2. All the Jedi live in her. Rey is just meant to be the most powerful Jedi ever because ALL the Jedi live in her (Yoda, Anakin, Luke). I honestly don't have a problem having her not need as much training as other Jedi since she is the most powerful of them all.
Other than that I really appreciate this comment. It's really nice to just have a normal conversation about the Sequels without name-calling or bullying.
@@thegoldman25 And this is why people like you never learn. You don't even try to argue his points, you just say "thank you" and ignore that this comment was made in the first place.
@@starwarsstudios8877 You've never seen a Star Wars movie have you?
@@bable6314 Seen more than you have buddy....and know a lot more as well
Although I still think Rey is a Mary Sue, your video was genuinely well done and gave me a new perspective. Thank you for the algorithm recommending me this!
I appreciate the respectful response, thanks for watching!
This is a good comment and it’s actually being respectable. What that’s impossible
Great that you can accept other opinions. But why exactly do you still think she is a Mary Sue
This is why I can't take the star wars fandom serious. They ignore prior feats of other films because of nostalgia and make up claims about the sequels.
Ignore context as to why Ray "won" against Kylo in TFA, ignores context on how she "won" in the rise of skywalker, etc. And then circle jeark and downvote ur video to yell.
you are not wrong, thank you for watching!
Or how they ignore how Thrawn comes out completely out of nowhere in Heir to the Empire and starts beating the shit of a lot of people strategically so much that it makes you wonder why the fuck Palpatine did not bring him in the battle of Endor, even if he is a xenophobic prick. (Nothing against Heir to the Empire, it's a good book.)
This a really well made video. I've never thought Rey is insanely overpowered, but your videos alone have made me appreciate the Sequels so much more.
I appreciate you watching this video, I'm glad I changed ur mind on the sequels!
She literally defended a sith lord without any previous training how the hell isn't she overpowered
@@phoenixgray9231 In which fight? With Kylo in TFA, he had just been shot in the chest with Chewie's bowcaster, but in my opinion TROS is kind of just a mess so with that one yeah, nothing really makes sense in that movie to me.
She was able to fly the millennium Falcon as well as weld a lightsaber and defeat a Sith Lord with no training
@@bamaboyz8978 She knew about the Falcon because she worked on it all the time and even then she didn’t do it well. Wait a minute did you even watch the video?
As a new Star Wars content creator, seeing this video was extremely inspiring. I absolutely loved it!
Thank you so much, it means a lot reading comments like that
@@thegoldman25 ruclips.net/video/din23ky_0LM/видео.html
2:25:24 “If this video means the world to one person who loves Rey but is so disappointed by the way she’s been hated upon by this fandom” Please count me as that person! Thank you for expressing those feelings so well and the courage to post them on the internet. Your positiveness is clear and appreciated. The heartfelt thoughts about listening to and respecting others' opinions is so needed at this time. This is an amazing video! A couple questions.
An estimate of how many hours this took to make? Did you have any hesitation, self doubt or ever consider not posting it?
I’m so glad to hear this! I’m glad you love this character just as much as I do! To answer your second question, I had 0 hesitation. No amount of hate can stop me. In terms of how long this took, probably a month or so. Idk how many hours exactly, I’m glad you asked!
Again liking something doesn’t make it good
@@ATalesTruth- and disliking something does not make it bad
@@something7641 I also agree with that, what one thinks doesn’t determine something to be good or bad but the objective factors, in which those factors point rey to being both a bad character and a Mary Sue
I am an hour and three fourths in and I've been seeing some major issues with this video, let's start with the definition of Mary sue.
The wikipedia definition is a weak one, it does not cover what makes a mary sue what it is but rather some of it's symptoms. What actually makes a mary sue is when logic bends around a character to fulfill some kind of task, such as making the character look good, simulating wish fulfillment, etc (Literature devil made a great video on this topic).
These things absolutely apply to Rey, she learns force abilities through nonsensical means that contradict what we know from the star wars canon, she is trusted to go to Luke while having no history with the resistance, and she is able to use the force despite having no training (despite being the chosen one, Even Anakin still needed training to use the force). If you compare her uses of the force to lukes in the first movie of their trilogies she has multiple instances where she uses the force, while Luke only has one instance that supplemented his already great piloting skills (the movie says he was able to bullseye two meter womp-rats with his ship) after receiving training, while she had none.
One of the more detrimental patterns to the videos argumentation is that having flaws disproves the existence of a sue, when in reality a mary sue can have flaws, but they won't suffer meaningful consequences from them. A common method of defending against the sue accusation was to give the character superficial flaws that don't affect the character (such as having a drug addiction but suffering no consequences from it), the same can be said of mistakes the character makes. Sure the six times Rey hit stuff while flying the falcon were mistakes, but they don't damage the ship in any way, the release of the rathtars was also framed as a mistake in the movie and the video, but it leads to the two other factions being eaten and the heroes escaping alive while if the rathtars weren't released they would have much more men with guns and they would be focused on the heroes instead of firing upon the other targets (you can bet there would be more instances of being shot if that were the case).
Something that could have made your point much stronger was to do some research into what others are saying about mary sues or Rey, but surprisingly references to other content creators are absent in the video. Debunking points from Literature devil, Critical Drinker, Mauler, Thor Skywalker, etc. would have definitely improved the video. Although while I reference other content creators, did you really not look into other mary sue stuff on youtube? If you type in mary sue into the youtube search bar trope talks by OSP is the first thing that comes up, I feel like seeing that would have prevented several erroneous conclusions from being made in the video, or it would have made the beginning more interesting, you could point holes into their definiton of a mary sue and try to debunk it.
Anyway, that was some of my thoughts on my first viewing, I'm sure EFAP will cover this in the next few weeks, I am looking forward to their response, I would hope you can come on to their show and talk, and I am looking forward to your response to them and to me, your editing is pretty decent, you have a nice enough voice to listen to, but I hope you could put a little more effort into research next time, you might come out a better content creator for it.
Just a question, why do the consequences need to be negative? She wasted her whole childhood waiting for her parents. That's one major consequence albeit to herself. I too was abandoned by one parent, so I can definitely empathise.
She did release the Rathtars, and got a whole bunch of people killed. She made a mistake and got lucky. Why would she need to lose a limb or whatever. She helped lead the FO to Takodana and had Maz's castle demolished because they were looking for her. That's one negative consequence. Admittedly not directly because it was BB-8 that was noticed, not her. She did get bested by Kylo Ren, but he was interested in training her, not killing her. Plenty of failings and just pure luck.
I'm not sure why you need to have other RUclipsrs opinions to justify your own, that's not how truth is sought. Plenty of people enjoy the ST, me included. Plently hate on the PT, although I love it. I don't get the point in shitting on Star Wars. It's detrimental to everyone and it gets nowhere.
@@grizzkarizz2960 Consequences don't always have to be negative, but when most or all of them aren't it becomes a problem, of course not everything doesn't need to cost life or limb, they just need to be appropriate to the situation.
Sure she had her childhood wasted in a terrible place, but a large portion of that is when she would be a child and likely dependent on Plutt, and even then that isn't relevant to the story at all.
What are you referring too when you say bested by Kylo? Do you mean when she was force pushed into a tree and Finn received a spinal injury that didn't affect him in TLJ? Or are you referring to the battle in TROS where Leia distracted her so she could get the stab in? I would appreciate clarification.
Han was the one who brought them to Maz, so that doesn't apply to her.
Justify my own opinion? These people created great videos on the sequel trilogy as a whole and are much better at getting across what is wrong with them compared to a random youtube commenter who was strained for time. It's fine that you enjoy the prequel and sequel trilogies but to ignore these massive writing issues doesn't do any good, when we can point out these issues we can improve upon them and make better movies.
@@jamesnoonan4243 Just because you have issues with the movies, doesn't mean the issues are there. The fact I can explain away most of your perceived issues should tell you something. Maybe I'm in tune with what the story teller is trying to say, I don't know. You've got to look at the whole picture, the three movies as a whole. Many people, myself included love these movies. That again, should tell you something. It's possible to love them.
Now. Yes, Han was the one who took them to Takodana, but he wouldn't have gone there if he hadn't met Rey. They were after Rey and BB-8, not Han. If Rey had have sold BB-8 to Plutt, Takodana castle would still stand.
Kylo Ren could have killed her on Takodana if she didn't have the map in her head. Kylo on Jakku showed that he had no qualms in killing innocent people, so I think Rey was just lucky or unluckly, depending on how you look at it. He easily knocked her out (which is what I meant by him besting her). On Starkiller Base, Snoke wanted her brought back to him, so Kylo was under direct orders not to kill her. That's why it wasn't a fair fight for Kylo. Imagine a girl is trying to punch you. You defend, even if you do attack, you're not going to do so to cause harm.
You say her time on Jakku isn't relevent to the story, but I disagree. Her abandonment issues, her longing to belong are what motivate her during the trilogy. She finally finds that belonging in the Resistance and finally as a Skywalker with Luke and Leia (something I'm not 100% behind). As someone with a similar childhood, I can empathise. Try looking at things from a different angle.
Rey is powerful. But she's also a Palpatine and part of a force diad. I think people were jumping the gun a bit after TFA and should have waited until the end of the trilogy to form their opinions. Her and Kylo sharing force abilities makes more sense now. Him force healing, her "inheriting" force abilities, albeit not proficient immediately, quickly, but not immediately. I'm pretty sure Sheeve had everything go his way until right at the end, barring the first Death Star explosion (which we can blame on Tarkin), but we don't call him a Gary Stu. He was just powerful and an evil genius.
About MauLer and so on, I watched a couple of their videos. They are disingenuous and trying to profit off negativity. It will make them rich while not changing anything Lucasfilm or Disney does one iota. I honestly don't see the point of it.
She's not a Mary Sue. The notion is idiotic. I doubt I'm going to change your mind, but negativity isn't going to get anyone anywhere. You might wonder why I engage in these conversations, I do so because I learn more about the movies the more I talk about them. If you refrain from ad hominems, I will continue to engage.
I really hope gold man sees and respond to your comment. Well put I agree if you argue for something you should debunk or argue but show the other side like you said it makes the argument stronger. So far he’s only responded from what I can see to people only positive and saying how right he is. Hope that doesn’t say anything
@@grizzkarizz2960 Potentially true, but you would have to point them out to me, which I find all of these (apart from the one I concede) to be fairly weak defenses. It's possible for anyone to love anything, it's only human. But that was never in question, I don't know what gave you the impression I was arguing that people can't love these movies.
True, but I wouldn't consider that a failing on Rey's part. She showed kindness to a droid, which not everyone treats as human in universe, only to be brought into the search for the map for doing that. She had no reason shown at that time to know that the first order are looking for the droid. In Takodana attention was focused onto them by Maz, something out of her control and something she could do little about. Are they negative consequences? Sure, but if you take this into account it's made clear these aren't her failings or flaws causing this but previous events she had no reason to expect their negative effect.
Ok, thank you for clarifying. The stasis ability Kylo uses on Takodana has nothing shown in the film that can nullify it's effect, of course there are many possible explanations like it only works on the weak willed, but that didn't make it into the film. So what was she supposed to do about it? In regards to the fight on starkiller the fight is actually fairly irrelevant considering Kylo has an ability that can stun people from a distance, but he forgot he had that, which would fall under logic bending around a character and fitting my mary sue definition.
I suppose it is relevant then, this is pretty solid reasoning and I concede this point. About your childhood I am sorry to hear that.
Anakin and Luke were referenced as strong in the force in their own movies, but still needed training to use the force, so the argument that Rey is strong with the force would imply that she is miles ahead of Anakin who was concieved by midiclorians, even then she is still breaking a consistent rule in the star wars universe that training grants access to force powers, which is part of my definition. The Palpatine family relation has similar issues. In regards to the dyad, it is mentioned only two times in the entire sequel trilogy, both times in TROS. It's rules and powers are only implied and don't mention anything relating to training faster than others. This explanation for Rey being able to go through training quicker than any other jedi would need to be in the film for it to be valid as a piece of evidence. Large plot points need to be directly confirmed, which is another issue I had with the video in regards to his section on engineering.
On Sheeve being a gary stu, that doesn't apply at all, Sheeve is shown to be very old and experienced in politics, which is logical given his background as a politician. He is shown to be very manipulative and cunning, which are skills that politicians use often. Due to his age and experience it is logical he would know how to manipulate people, recognize who is the most gullible and susceptible to influence (Jar Jar and Anakin) and deal in secrecy. He does all of this without stretching or breaking universal rules and while he doesn't fail much, he is very experienced and likely had failed in his past which he learned from, and his failures do lasting damage to him, when he was shocked by his own force lightning he had to live with that for the rest of his life.
Disingenuous and trying to profit off negativity? In regards to the point about profit and them not changing anything, that same logic can be turned to people like The Gold Man and others who like the sequel trilogy, there isn't much of a point in explaining why these films are good if they don't let Lucasfilm know what they are doing is good right? Of course I don't see it as an issue but you get my point. Secondly, change nothing? Many writing issues have been explored while the sequel trilogy has been dissected and analyzed, which can help many fledgling writers not make the same mistakes these films make, the contrivances, contradictions of universal rules, character assassinations, world building issues, etc. can all be learned from. I've grown a small interest in writing because of these videos and it's become one of my two main choices of a career going forward. I'm sure there are many others who have had a similar experience to me in this regard (a decent chunk of the videos mentioned have over a million views), so I strongly disagree there is no point to the videos.
I always feel like many people just heard that Rey is a Mary Sue and went with it. Even though it doesn’t make any logical sense to call her that
It’s mainly the fact that she managed to accomplish many tricks in an instant that other characters took years to get good at.
@@eoinoconnor5783 Yeah I know but the movie explains it to you why she is that way and also with Luke and Anakin it doesn’t seem to be an issue
Or maybe she suffers no defeat or has any believable character flaws to overcome
@@KafuKemeh yes she has character flaws mainly her self doubt, she thinks she is only worth something if she comes from someone important and thinks she needs other people to show her her way. She has to learn that she doesn’t. She also suffers defeats she gets captured by Kylo, fails to bring him to the light, fails to get Luke of his island, fails to rescue Chewie, fails to defeat Kylo fair and square on the Death Star ruins and i could go on
@@Carlo_ReNews compared to what Luke and anakin went through I doubt that,
At 1:51:30, I totally agree. I loved Rey from the beginning because of the way she treats droids. In the original trilogy and the prequels, most characters, even the good guys, treat droids as if they are, at best, pets. Rey treats droids as if they are people. The way she treats BB8 and asking C3PO the odds show this to be the case.
Yeah that's why the Droid had to beg and guilt-trip her into taking it her with.
So your telling me Anakin Skywalker never treated Droids like they are people or even Clone Troopers
@@RJA_editsexactly. This original comment is completely flawed, just another stretch to try and justify the character Rey.
@@Oioisavaloy I agree even Luke was treating R2, C3PO and Chewbacca like people
If she isn't a Mary Sue then why is she so perfect at everything?
She had no training, she beat the main villain multiple times, she never develops properly, and she earns everything without doing any work.
Take it up with people like G+G, Mindless Ent., WCBs, etc.
Yeah let me talk to the geniuses in the fandom menace 😂😂😂
"She had no training"
Rey: *is trained by Luke for about a week and by Leia for a year while also studying the ancient sacred Jedi texts
@@techno639 well no luke didn’t train rey at all he only gave 2 lesson which doesn’t help her control the force or use a lightsaber and leia is confirmed to not be training her she only gave her advice
@@ATalesTruth- Luke taught her about what the Force truly means along with Jedi history. This is training, Leia is Rey's master so it's obvious she's training under her
You didn’t watch the video did you?
So i just watched this... Wow.... I grew up with the release of the prequels and spent my childhood watching every SW movie back to back every week for literally years, read the movie novels, and so much more: point being, I know Star Wars VERY well. I personally love all of the sequel movies, TLJ actually being my all time favorite SW movie! Ive argued and talked to sooooooooo many sequel haters about so many different things and I really never understood why some people think Rey is a Mary Sue. ive heard all their arguments and reasons, but they always struck me as simply just them either misunderstanding the sequels, or not paying attention. This video PERFECTLY sums up the things ive been saying for years! Awesome video man! Its sad half the people watching this video are haters who, im willing to bet, either didnt even watch any of this video, or are in complete denial based off their own nostalgia and biases. I can understand why some people dont like the sequels, thats totally fine. But as I always say, there is a difference between disliking something and HATING something, and all the haters are very irrational and unreasonable. Edit: You brought up a lot of things I didnt catch that make me appreciate the sequels even more! Awesome job! Its nice seeing people like you on the internet who arent just fat neck beard nerds throwing temper tantrums over some space fantasy movie they didnt like due to their own nostalgia bias and double standards. There needs to be more people like you.
Thank you fir saying all that! In time most people will love this character as we do, I know it
Me too, man!
As to those angry fat neck beards complaining about the sequels.... I say this.... "Darkness rises... and light to meet it"
I grew up with sequels and they're hot garbage
Siiera117 Okay, good for you.
I just find it weird how the term Gary Stu has not been thrown around in SW
That’s something I bring up btw
Who would you say is a Gary Stu?
The point is that no man is called a Gary Stu but women all called Mary Sues all the time
DarthStalkers thrawn
I disagree, he’s just a genius
Still doesn't change the fact that Rey runied Anakin's sacrifice at the end of Episode 6 by defeating Palpatine at the of Episode 9,and my question is is how was Rey able operate/fix a ship that she has never even flied before ? How did Finn got his butt kicked by Kylo while Rey was able to stand her ground ? I don't care what anyone says Anakin is the chosen one not Rey.
Not a single person says Rey is the chosen one. Anakin destroyed the Sith, and so did Rey
@@thegoldman25 I do appreciate the time, craftsmanship,and effort you put in the video though.I would like to see more videos like this, and I do respect your opinion,sorry if you took my comment the wrong way.
@@thegoldman25
Ignored the rest lol
Great analysis. I don't agree with every point but you make a very clear well structured argument. Great video!
Much appreciated!
@@thegoldman25 BTW the scene where Rey uses the wrong eye to sight down the blaster. People naturally close their non dominant eye, which can be left or right. Most people are same side dominant in the eye and hand. Cross dominance is a thing but it makes it harder to shoot. It's still better to use your dominant eye even if you are cross dominant. To determine your dominant eye: point at an object. Close one eye. If you are still looking at the object you are using your dominant eye and vice versa. Hope this helps. Still a great video. I see that many comments are similar to mine. You did an outstanding job!
It’s enough to make a man cry
Your support is enough to make me cry ❤️
Don't really care too much for star wars, but this was a really good, informative video. Can't wait to watch more of your vids ☺️
Clearly...
Thank you so much for all your contents fairly addressing both bad AND good sides of the sequels. Especially a video like this seriously bravely address the hates towards Rey. The point about double standard is literally can be applied thorough the entire argument and every haters have been ignoring it so thank you for logically analysing every scenes.
Thank you so much for watching!
@@thegoldman25 how's the Lucasfilm sponsoring going? KK must be proud of you for your efforts. Or maybe not, people still hate the sequels like always will.
I finally finished it and it is just perfect. Also the ending part where you talk about the fandom is the best and really wholesome
I appreciate that, thank you!
Can't wait to link this whenever I get into an argument also the Klaud cutout is amazing
I love Klaud so much, thanks for the nice comment, I’m glad you enjoyed it!
I really appreciate you and you’re video dude, I wouldn’t say I personally agree on every point but this is way better and by far more well done than that Syfy video where the girl calls anyone who says Rey is a Mary su is sexist
Thank you so much for the kind words
@@thegoldman25 the rey not a Mary sue is a lie she never trains but wins you lie
@@thegoldman25 then rey a gary stue
Rey is a mary sue, you see a Mary sue has the perfect personality and Rey did she never id anything wrong whereas Anakin had a dark personality. Also Rey knew force lightning without learning it and you cant just get it as if you were given it through family and also the worst thing is that she can beat kylo red with no training whatsoever. Also Rey will never be the chosen one.
@@britishvader2438 " Rey did she never id anything wrong " she blew up a ship full of innocent people, try again
I love the video but only have one thing that I found wrong. At one point you say that there is no other examples in canon of people struggling to use a Jedi mind trick but Ezra struggles with it for a little while in Rebels. Other than that I loved the video and love all of the others videos that you make.
that's a good point, thanks for watching!
In defense of Rey, Ezra was often portrayed as bumbling and naive, but that’s a very good point
@@unrealpotato2230 There’s nothing to support your claim that she didn’t know the Force existed.
Very thorough video, I’m halfway through so far so I don’t know if you touch on this, but just from a franchise standoint Rey being able to do force abilities that we’ve seen in the Original Trilogy is literally just the film makers trying to keep the movies fresh. Some fans didn’t want her to be able to Jedi mind trick or force pull the lightsaber without the training, but as an audience these are all things we’ve seen before so it just feels natural for her to be able to do them. The alternative of her having to learn all this stuff from Luke first would make the ST be even more similar to the OT and feel stale for the audience because when someone goes into a new Star Wars movie they expect force abilities and lightsabers.
That’s another good reason
and none of it worked "dadum tsh"
@chaoszieg you cant tell these people anything they will bounce around as much as possible to avoid their chosen trilogy getting shit on
Appealing to the meta doesn't change the content of the writing itself, which is what people are criticizing.
We know Rey was given these God-powers because it was part of Disney's corporate plan to maximize profits. That doesn't make her less of a poorly-written character.
@Jibbs Really because I saved a lot of the Twitter sequel stan garbage especially the Reylo shit you know the shit they thought they hide but werent very good at it
*Sees Video:* Yes!
*Sees Video Length:* YYEEEEEESSSSSSSS
Thanks for watching!
Most pathetic development of a character for a long time... Let's be honest.
i disagree, i think she's one of the best characters in star wars, thats me being honest
@@thegoldman25 I respect that.
As to be honest I really like her on 7, maybe I think knowing about her being Palpatine's granddaughter was just rushed... But Daisy Ridley was very good as Adam driver for Kylo and Jhon for Finn.
This whole hubbub about Rey has just confused me because "Chosen Ones" and simple Force Prodigies have literally always been a thing. Even Sith have Chosen Ones (Bane, Darth Imperius/Nox). There's folks like Darth Zannah who shielded herself from a Thought Bomb as a *child* with no previous signs of Force affinity, while Sith and Jedi Masters all over the planet dropped like flies.
But all of a sudden its a problem when Rey can lift some rocks and beat a horribly injured and conflicted dark side user who then goes on to beat her ass after she trains hard for a year? BS.
Straight facts
Darth Nox and Imperius are a part of a game. It makes sense that their abilities are amped up
@@emperorholocron8278 Yeah I was admittedly a touch hesitant about adding them cause there's Starkiller too, who tends to start all sorts of debates, lol. Still, in game abilities aside and more to lore, that particular Sith is still able to murder/manipulate their way onto the Dark Council within 3 years, has a powerful bloodline and kills more experienced Sith quite above their paygrade with abilities that hadn't been seen in centuries.
Or putting aside the games, there's Nomi Sunrider, who before being properly trained, pulled off a complex kind of mind trick (or battle meditation kind of thing?) to distract two beasts, a sort of skill said to be beyond even some Masters. Or kid Vitiate, who was Force-murdering at six and at ten was ripping apart villages and had hordes of followers already without a lick of formal training.
Sometimes, people in the Star Wars verse are just born _powerful_ and it only takes a small nudge to get them going. Most beings have to work at it a bit, but it doesn't preclude the former folk from popping up now and again. They're the geniuses of the Force, in a way, and I wouldn't call a math prodigy a Mary Sue/Gary Stu because at 10 they could do post-grad math with seemingly little or no effort and most people can't.
Apologies for the babble.
A lot of so-called SW commentators cough Mauler cough don't really know SW so its ignorant posturing. I mean Marka Ragnos is a ghost and insanely powerful - no says they broke the rules with him or he's a gstu. So its a lot of ignorant people using exaggerated rhetoric
@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 So you trying dis Mauler by using Expanded Universe. Shame.
I disagree but I like your editing style
thank you!
Man, these dislikers are pretty much Rey haters and Sequel Trilogy haters who put ammount of dislikes to this thoughtful video that haven't watched the entire video explaining why Rey is not a Mary Sue and needs to understand about the character.
It is what it is 🤷🏼♂️
Ok, this is one of the biggest things I don't agree with.
You shouldn't compare Rey with Luke nor Anakin.
Anakin IS the chosen one. He IS a (very) flawed space Jesus. Would you say Jesus is a Mary Sue? They both endured so many and real difficult hardships in their life even though they were so powerful and gifted.
Luke on the other hand was a whiny b*tch in the beginning. BUT he was relatable to so many people. A teenager who wanted something more in life. An adventure, a purpose, a destiny,...? He failed many times during the movies and had many bad qualities. With each movie, we saw him mature and advance in his abilities becoming the man who will bring back Anakin to the light and taking his part in bringing back the balance (I personally believe it was a group effort but ultimately Anakin fulfilled the prophecy.)
You just can't compare Rey to them because she isn't like any of that.
pretty sure you didnt watch the video
You didn't explain why Rey doesn't have any of those qualities, though. You just said "you can't compare them"even though all three of them are force sensitive people from desert planets who are gifted pilots. Yeah, no comparison whatsoever there.
True the video does a shit job at saying she isn't but there so much evidence that she is able to life mountains of boulders, suddenly over power kylo a guy who has been trained but luke Skywalker himself to a girl who barely knew that the forced existed. Suddenly able to use force mind control with ease and the universe bending backwards to her and with no real character i mean we never actually saw anything change the writers just add "flaws" that would be resolved pretty easily not once i ever thought she was ever in danger
@@budgetbrick5124 Did you not watch the video?
@@calebmurphy9406 did YOU not watch the video
Me: sees the likes and dislikes are equal.
Should I tip the tide?
Join the light side of the force, like the video!
The dark side has cookies
Join me
Give in to the Dark Side !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Darth Dad what type of cookies?
I find it rather ironic how the same people yelling at everyone about “bad writing” are pissed off about a bunch of things they are shown, not told.
Not sure when I'm gonna find time to watch the whole thing, but I'm 34 minutes in and this is great. You earned a sub.
Thank you! Take as much time as you need, I’m honored you’re watching it in the first place
You're literally pulling my thoughts out of my brain as if reading a book 😂😂 excellent video. Points I would like to add to support each section:
*The Force Awakens*
Jakku is completely a survival of the fittest planet. When one of the tie fighters crash you see a bunch of scavengers clamouring towards the wreckage. That's the environment Rey grew up in. Scavengers scrapping over scrap. So of course she knows how to fight. It's a natural bi-product of surviving on Jakku as long as she has.
Rey is on the Backfoot in the Kylo fight the entire time, despite all of Kylos disadvantages (dead dad, bowcaster wound, additional Finn wounds), she only succeeds when she does what Maz Kanata tells her at the Castle _"I am no Jedi, but I know the force. It moves through and surrounds every living thing. Close your eyes. Feel it. The light. It's always been there. It will guide you"_ Notice what Rey does in the fight with Ben, the second he says "I can show you the ways of the force!" she goes "Force?" and then she _closes her eyes_ . She is recalling what Maz said to her. And it guides her final blows as Maz promised it would.
*The Last Jedi*
I read the Rey vs Luke "fight" the same way, Luke backing down when she grabs the lightsaber I never read as defeat, but simply the moment when Luke stopped toying with her. I imagine in his head when she grabbed the lightsaber he went "Oh crap she's serious, I'd better not let this escalate any further".
I think Reys triple kill can be explained quite easily. In TFA she was the one who set the shot up for Finn. Likewise in this scene Rey is only as good as she is because of Chewie. Chewie the experienced Falcon flier keeps setting her up. In a soccer game you could be the best striker in the world, but if your wingman doesn't repeatedly set you up with a perfect crosses into the box the strikers skill is for nought. Rey has the quick reflexes, but it's CHEWIE who keeps lining up the shots for her. All she has to do is pull the trigger at the right time.
*The Rise of Skywalker*
Ahsoka also holds a moving ship in the clone wars finale.
I like to think the TROS Luke lesson "confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi" would have been the Third Lesson in LTJ (Rian Johnson confirmed the deleted scene lesson in that film wasn't the "third lesson", but an extension of the second; The Legacy of the Jedi is failure: The Jedi ran headlong into the Clone Wars without thinking about the consequences or getting perspective on the situation, similarly Rey runs headlong into the village without thinking about the implications or getting all the facts). With LTJ mindset Luke would have tied this true third lesson to the Jedi orders failure as they didn't confront fear effectively like their role as maintainers of balance required. A better solution would have been something new in Lukes warped mindset, but of course TLJ was about learning from failure so his third lesson is clear from this cynicism in TROS.
I would have seen the 'healing' at the end as a Force Resurrection, not a force heal. Saving someone who is injured or dying is different to bringing someone back who is dead. FYI here Ben gets to do the thing Anakin wanted in ROTS (keep the one he cared about, from dying), but Anakin was possessive, he wanted to save Padme because he needed her for himself, but Ben selflessly gave up his life for Rey. Anakin was trying to have his cake and eat it too (stay alive himself and keep Padme).
*External Material*
Quote from Ahsoka Novel Chapter 20 discussing natural potential in the untrained: _"Ahsoka wasn’t too surprised that Hedala could sense something she could not. It happened frequently with younglings. They’d be good at one aspect of the Force and not at others until they were trained. Obi-Wan told her that Anakin had been found by Obi-Wan’s master, Qui-Gon, because of his quick reflexes. It was her ability to sense people’s feelings and intentions that had marked her. Hedala was apparently good at sensing danger from a distance. Not a bad skill to have, untrained, at a time when having any skill at all was enough to make her an automatic target."_
I don't even see this as "external material" because it's just describing what we see repeatedly in all star wars media. Anakin has quick reflexes, Ezra can perform force jumps (feats of unnatural acrobatics), Luke also displayed quick reflexes like his father and was able to levitate the lightsaber in the cave on Hoth. Rey apparently is naturally gifted at the mind trick, and levitation of rocks, even in this instance it will be down to experimentation based on myths, and growing up on a "survival of the fittest" planet means she has to adapt quickly or die, so shes been raised to be a fast learner.
Following this, other external material, forces of destiny shows Rey practicing lifting rocks (and porgs) on Ahch-To which prepares her for the end of the film when she has to lift rocks.
I think people think Yoda's species is naturally stronger is because 1) The species is incredibly rare, every single member of those we have seen, Yoda, Yaddle and now Grogu are all incredibly gifted (2 are council members). We never see a Yoda species in mundane role like mechanic or junk dealer, no regular Yodas. 2) there's the line in TPM "Not even master Yoda has a midichlorian count that high", which implies Yoda is the benchmark for the highest known living midichlorian count (which governs ones natural potential). So we can infer Yodas species is naturally gifted, at least unless his species becomes less mysterious. Star Wars presents Yodas kind repeatedly as special and rare.
*Conclusions*
I feel like this whole issue has given birth to what we can call "Sue Goggles". Like you know how when people date a new person they only see the best things about them they say that they're looking at them with "Rose Tinted Glasses 👓" ignoring all flaws? That double standard you bring up definitely exists causing them to watch the movie with these "Sue Goggles".
It's similar to all the fans being obsessed with who's parents Rey were, so they watched the movies with "Lineage" goggles, filtering every single piece of dialogue as related to this idea. After TFA in 2015 Like when Maz asks "who's the girl?" to Han, people imagined Han and Maz spoke about her secret lineage off screen thinking that they were both privy to information 🙄 when all it literally was was Maz wanting to be brought up to speed on what's happened so far in the movie 😂😂😂 so with the Sue goggles theyre looking for reasons to call her a Mary Sue because that's the conclusion they have already come to. The reasons could literally be as petty as the childish playground "Boys are better than girls" mentality (we've all been there, it's the same as the age old debate "my dad's stronger than your dad" 😂😂😂) it's just manifesting itself in a stupid way in adulthood on a subconscious level. Alternatively as others have said, a subconscious "Anti Disney" mindset could be skewing people's conclusion of the material. There are plenty of legitimate gripes with the sequel trilogy, but "Rey is a Mary Sue" certainly isn't one of them. Its people parroting people who are parroting Max Landis. I make no attempt to be exhaustive of all the possible reasons for people's attitudes (there will be more than this), or to label who is specifically what, or even to generalise and say that all Mary Sue campers are the same. I cannot read everyones individual feelings and motives. it's up to each individual person to examine themselves and determine whether they are being genuine or whether they are projecting preconceived subconscious notions into the material.
Wow, thank you so much for sharing this, I love learning new things
@@thegoldman25 no problem 😂 what'd you think to The Last Jedi triple shot explanation?
Mary sue deffenders: *oK, DoNt CaRe lMaO*
Both Luke and Anakin was pilots since before you know
Yep
They all were it seems like
@@billbutton8468 not really she has flied like once or twice and is better then the recistance best pilot
Rey didn't save the day in the first film like Luke who managed to be on a mission without his abilities being tested and outrunning much more trained pilots.
Poe was the best pilot of resistance and the one with the help of Finn and Han blew up the Starkiller base? Actually, instead of being a hero that saves the day and won a medal, Rey had to be rescued by Chewbacca at the end of TFA.
Excuse me but Luke landspeeder on Tatooine and x wing were made by incom so they had similar controls and he had target practice on Tatooine.
You are a brave man
so many say
Mauler: intense screeching
🤷🏼♂️
You wish.
Mauler is so full of shit.
@@smudboy wishes come true
@@ilikepigeons6101 more like laughing
Yeah, I’m on the same boat as you.
At least someone agrees
@@thegoldman25 I really love Rey.
Me too, I don't LOVE rey but I agree that she isn't a mary sue
This was well put together. I disagree with it, but I appreciate the work you put into it, and I left a LIKE
Thank you! I wish more people had your mentality
@@thegoldman25 ruclips.net/video/OMtJzFpM_BI/видео.html
@STEPH ANIE I'm just curious what did you think of his message he said at the where name calling needs to stop on both sides where people who hate the sequel trilogy need to stop being called racist and sexist and people who loves the sequel trilogy need to to stop being called SJWs
I think the whole Mary Sue argument would be undermined if Rey's actions had more long term consequences
The great thing about the OT and PT is how people get their arms and stuff chopped off
That's a significant consequence since it's permanent
P.S. I never really liked Luke because of his rapid progression
He is a good character though but a bit plain sometimes
His best moments come from his struggle where he genuinely just loses his cool
Agreed
Didn't he mature and choose not to kill his father?
She’s not the greatest character but not bad
I agree
Peoplen just exagerate with all the negative aspects about this movies
Anakin wanted to free slaves but that’s completely forgotten about
Why did he stay with the Jedi between episode 1 and 2
Stop hating on the sequels when they have similar and less worse problems than the prequels
Let me guess, you hate on the force heal in episode 9 but simped for it in the Mandalorian
I’VE BEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNN LOOKINGGGGGG FORWARD TO THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!
😂I hope I don’t disappoint
No it’s great so far, like how you’re comparing Rey to other characters
I’m relived to hear that, thank you
I'm sorry but your defense for Rey flying the falcon is way too long. They literally spell it out to you when she says "I've flown some ships but never left the planet"
Thanks for the heart
A well reasoned argument on sequels that gives deeper context? Must comment to boost algorithm! 👏
thank you so much!
No, he just pointed out the issues with rey and he didn't explain them
It’s still better than most arguments, like most of the “Rey is not a Mary Sue “ argument is basically talking shit to Luke and Anakin and etc
Yeah it always comes down to an issue of definitions. There's just a fundamental gap in the way people understand the terms Mary Sue and Gary Stu. With your first point, you state that Superman is not a Gary Stu because his powers are explained and make sense in the universe. Many sources, most notably TV Tropes, account for the fact that their powers are explained in-universe, but that is not an excuse for their overpowered status, especially if it gives them the agency to be the center of all of the plot and conflict. With your second point, you specify that Mary Sue's do not have flaws, which is just as often accounted for. The problem is not that they are flawless, the problem is that such flaws are typically superficial and don't cost the character anything beyond being sad for a while. Your final point in the opening is also ultimately undermined by your definition as well, since your definition excludes many characters that the term is applied to, male or female. Generally accepted Gary Stu characters are numerous in pop culture, Superman, Harry Potter, and James Bond are a couple of the bigger examples. That and the anecdotal statement doesn't help establish your credibility and immediately exposes bias. Unfortunately I think most of your target audience will be likely to stop watching your video after the introduction is complete, as your definition doesn't address their concerns with the trope and therefore any arguments you make will be ultimately flawed in their perspective. While I agree that Wikipedia isn't a "bad source," it probably would have benefitted you to use additional sources for a more all-encompassing definition to argue against.
Thank you for saving me a lot of typing.
So my best faith response to your statement is to assume that when you read "Generally accepted Gary Stu's," you interpreted that as "approved Gary Stu's." That is not what I said nor intended to imply. My statement could be reworded to "Characters generally considered to be..." I didn't mean to express an opinion that Gary Stu's are acceptable and, even then, I at no point express an opinion on Mary Sue's.
This is a very well thought out and eloquently put comment that encompasses my feelings about the video pretty perfectly.
+Jibbs, try again.
@Jibbs No, they don't need to be verified, they just need to make sense.
I think you make some good points in the video. But I think there is at least one correction that could be made. I think it's more accurate to say that Rey has a mechanical background than an engineering background. Rey understands what the different parts of the ship do and how they work together, but she isn't the engineer who designed the original parts and systems.
The problem is from what we are shown she is a scrap collector.
A scavenger knows what part is what, and what it's worth. We never see Rey repair or build a ship, droid or anything.
Then they depict her magicly knowing a very much one of a kind ship with the falcon. Thats also custom modified.
Meaning even an expirienced Ship mechanic would take a good bit figufing out where what is, and what mods been added.
As onr needs to remember Star wars ships are significantly bigger, more complex and not following the same standartized design as our cars or even Airplanes do.
And not only does Rey imididtly know where to look, and has mechanical skills besides us never seeing her actually do this kind of work. She can fly it better then it's year long owner with tons of smuggling expirience.
Meaning very skillfull risky routes to avoid authorities, even wild chases if caught and escaping with the wares intact. Earning him the Title of the best smuggler.
They could have easily fixed this by depicting Rey working on a small ship, and a passing sentence of a side character like "Are yoh flying again?"
With Luke they were ver, small establishing early on he maintains the droids for his uncle, and trained for years in shooting and flying to join the academy as fighter pilot.
Later we learn he is the best among his friends wich makes the Deathstar shot belivable.
For Rey they skipped this storytelling device wich makes all this skills pop up randomly without any realustic conclusion the audience can make.
You just have to accept that she just did that.
@@TrafalgarWaterDLaw-dl5cm Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. At the same time though, force sensitive people in Star Wars have always had miraculous powers, so is isn't too hard to imagine that the force gave Rey special flying powers or even just really quick instincts - like how it gave exceptionally fast reflexes to 10 year old Anakin where he too beat other much more experienced pilots. And in the case of Anakin, the other alien races even had a biological advantage over Anakin since non-force sensitive humans are said to have much worse reflexes. So it isn't too much of a stretch of the imagination that Rey would fly as good as Han Solo or even better since Han is just a regular human with regular human reflexes. I know Han is a beloved character from the original trilogy, but he definitely is not force sensitive, which is generally a major disadvantage for people in the Star Wars universe.
As far as the mechanic thing, what if Rey installed the Millennium Falcon modification herself? Or was at least present when her slave owner installed it? Han didn't know about it because he hasn't been there when the mod was added. Rey was, so again, it makes sense she would know where the mod was. It's like if someone stole your car 20 years ago, added a small new component the size of a dime to the bottom of the engine, and it makes your car run bad. You get your car back finally, and you notice it runs bad on the freeway. You can figure out what's going wrong, but it will take hours to diagnose everything to find that one tiny modification. But if the person who installed it or at least knew of it told you about it, well, things would move a lot quicker. It's not that Rey is a better mechanic than Han, she just happened to know where to look. 👀
I love Rey so much ! I'm really happy this video exist ✨
I love the character too
@FreedomofSpeech FreedomofThought I thought that I’d heard that Daisy Ridley said she looks up to Rey....
I know this was released like, years ago, but I've been watching alot of your vids, and these sequel ones are really helping me appreciate all that there is to like about ROS
So thank you. I really appreciate this channel and your analysis
Thank you for saying she’s not a Mary sue I always thought Rey was not a Mary sue and I think people calling her a Mary sue is annoying and makes me sick 🤢 I think Rey is a great character and I would dare say the Rey and Kylo dynamic is better than the Han and Leia dynamic don’t get me wrong I think the Han and Leia dynamic is good but Rey and Kylo dynamic is incredible throughout all 3 movies and I love the whole sequel trilogy and yes I love all 3 of them
She is the Queen of Mary Sue's
@@bjrnthebootybanditwhat does that even mean?
@@bjrnthebootybanditIf you think that Rey is the queen of Mary Sue then you have the luck to not know any mediocre story with a black hole protagonist. Or you like when a character is a Mary Sue if you can use said character as a self insert. Or you don't know what is a Mary Sue
2 and a half hours? I gotta grab my popcorn 🍿
Sit down and enjoy!
Fans: The Sequels have no logic and Rey is a Mary Sue
People who actually use their brains: *Able to see the logic and explains the logic in a coherent form to them*
Fans: WhY aRe YoU dEfEnDiNg ThIs TrAsH?
I love this
Well alot of his arguments were subjective and made assumptioms that reinforced his point of view. Not objective, or based in fact, more of head cannon. In the end its all subjective we are all entitled to our views. Great video, perhaps logical in the way assumptions are made, but not logical in regards to using facts
I don’t usually watch long analysis videos like this, but I’m glad you’re on this subject. I’m not the biggest sequel fan (TFA was the one I liked the best), but I never hated Rey nor thought of her as a Mary Sue. You hit a lot of the points I tell people and you also added things I never considered. Well done sir.
Finally somebody who agrees the sequel Trilogy is overhated and not that bad. Rey is my fav character she's not a Mary sue as she does have the occasional moments when she struggles in the fights!
Thanks for watching!
I find it funny how suddenly videos that defend the sequels are "invalid" based on video length according to the detractors, but if it's the opposing party, they totally matter if they're longer than the movies themselves.
The absolute pinnacle of double standards.
So sick of the hate Rey is getting. Disney or not, Rey deserves love, not being called the biggest mary sue in the world or galaxy.
Rey is an awesome character, they need to continue her story!
For years, I really loved Rey. I mean, she's no Anakin, Obi-Wan, or Ashoka, she was still an awesome character. But I eventually gave in to her not being a good character at all. Thank you for restoring my faith in Rey, and for saying all the points that I've been thinking about for years. I was that one kid you defended at the end of this video :))
Why does it have that many dislikes?????
many people just disagree and dislike it without watching the video
@@thegoldman25 or we all watched it and people with common sense see your points don’t add up, for example if you had a conversation with me I could explain why every point you made was inaccurate and based on your own assumptions and implications even you say it’s what you think, rather then pointing out facts
Anyone taht likes this video is going based off their own biases like you rather then looking at Rey’s character as another character, if any other character was like rey let’s say Kirito then you see that any bias fan who defends him is just like you defending rey,
@@ATalesTruth-, alright, I’d be happy to hear your take on the matter.
@@thegoldman25 to do it all in a comment would take to long, and for me to summarize everything he said will take just as long as he did to explain why his points are wrong respectfully, to do it short is a disservice on both ends so I’ll think about maybe showing you other who addresses his points in other videos or I’ll make one myself, I’ll link those videos of people addressing his points at the end of the This comment.
to be honest it comes down to this, a Mary Sue isn’t a perfect character contrary to popular belief, because perfection is unknowable, it’s impossible I achieve, yet it’s right in front of us all the time, it’s not something we can really know to have, a Mary Sue is an attempt to be perfect without earning it and that’s why it’s considered a bad character
A Mary Sue is a character that by its very nature is unrealistic even in the fictional universe, being absolutely morel for no good or established reason, and if they have a flaw it doesn’t end up being a personal defect which then turns to a weakness or leads to any from of consequences(like clumsiness, to caring, or insecurities, if it doesn’t end up being used against them, or If it never hampers their abilities then it’s inconsequential whether or not she has them) , and if they struggle with an outstanding feat the fact they did it with no explanation is still unbelievable so it shouldn’t be given a pass, surpassing even experts as if she was one despite there being no reason
A Mary Sue has 4 things
A weak background
Can accomplish expert level feats with no explanation being better then the experts themselves
Makes no mistakes that end up being consequential
Is to moral to the point she ends up becoming an unrealistic person by doing what’s always right even when she knows she could become evil. In which her motivation is never established for being good
Let’s go down the list shall we
She has no background to explain her abilities in fixing things or being able to pilot something like the falcon which is always co piloted(in which she shouldn’t have been able to get off the ground or fly effectively enough without someone else helping her with the controls since it requires 2 people) and out perform expert pilots. The best we get is she is a scavenger but that’s not an engineer and even if she did pilot a frater at one point, 1stly that’s different from a actual frater and a fighter ship(that be like me driving a garbage truck all my life compared to a sports car from fast and furious), 2ndly if she did pilots a few times that be like asking a new driver to put drive the cops.
She has had no training in the force or a lightsaber yet she can beat kylo in the force struggle 3 times, and she can be half of the 10 Elite guards that perfected snoke who were trained to kill fully trained Jedi knights, yet she is not even on pad wan level
Again the second point being a Mary Sue is somehow better then expert without actually learning, she beat kylo who beat fin a trained solider from birth in combats while he was injured and didn’t struggle at all to subdo him, yet rey a self taught girl beat him in a lightsaber fight, how does that make sense when fin was trained in such weaponry and lost to kylo, how did kylo lose to rey, and how did rey get so good at using a weapon she never picked up before, beat not only kylo, Elite guards and is basically just as good as trained combatants with no training, this would be like asking po from kung fu panda to beat or be better then everyone in the first movie despite no one training him,
As for her force powers be being a descent of palatine doesn’t helped her because Anakin was the chosen one being the strongest force users in Star Wars couldn’t do what she does force lighting or heal without learning how it do them, in fact he turns to the darkside just to learn force heal, how can rey do that when Anakin couldn’t, he did everything in his power to learn that ability, rey didn’t, rey uses force lightening an ability that is confirmed only the most trained Sith Lords can use and it’s only taught by the sith so she did learn it form anywhere, luke skywalker the son of the chosen one should be stronger then rey given skywalkers are stronger then palatines yet luke actually had to train and even after years of knowing he had the force and will only a little training he isn’t even as strong as rey who had none, what does that say
As for mistakes rey makes no mistakes that ends up costing her or end up being a bad thing in the long wrong, for example she went after kylo in TLJ to save kylo and kill snoke and instead of getting in-prisoned or killed this gives kylo the chance to kill snoke and kylo ends up coming back to the light later, so her going their wasn’t risk for her because everything worked out by the end, essentially there is no risk to her, compare that to luke trying to save his friends and beat darth vader, if he was like rey he would have done both even indirectly, the fact is luke actually lost his best friend lost his hand, knew the truth of his father, lost his faith and his belief shaken to his core,
As for morality rey living in a planet al her life fending for herself should have made her bitter and overall out for herself just to survive, so why doesn’t she give up bb8 given he is a droid not a person, and 2 she needs to think about long term on jaku, by all reason she should have given up bb8, there was no reason to keep him given he can’t help her, he is a liability given if he breaks or loses power, why keep him when there is no reason, why does she even want get bb8 to the resistance before she goes back to jaku, why does she want to be a Jedi or help the resistance to begin with when all she cares about is her parents even after the force awakens. What’s her motivation, what’s her reasoning and why is she never tempted by evil and even when she is she is not effected by it and when she thinks she might be tempted she does the right thing and isolates herself to think on it, nothing suggests she will become evil in the films as their is no reason for her to and she is never even tempted by the offers of power of the darkside like luke or vader at least in a way that actually effects them,
Like I said I can go on and on but I can’t do it all in a comment section
By given what I said thus far do you at least have the idea
Here will be some videos to help show the problems
Reaction to Gold man rey is not a Mary Sue
Whole reaction ruclips.net/video/EosOOvP6HpQ/видео.html
Part reactions
ruclips.net/video/lgQnOyeYGwY/видео.html
Continue watching the parts as they come up
Pointing out rey is a Mary Sue ruclips.net/video/OMtJzFpM_BI/видео.html
CBN article saying rey isn’t a Mary Sue ruclips.net/video/CAu98uSiByk/видео.html
Comparing luke to rey ruclips.net/video/z1_ZFLcKlQw/видео.html
If luke was like rey ruclips.net/video/Ha_Fsc3h3w4/видео.html
Why the sequels can not be considered cannon ruclips.net/video/din23ky_0LM/видео.html
There are 3 parts
@black bear g
Um you said that you think that captain marvel is not a mary sue but described what made her a mary sue...
nope
You did though
At 7:10
You are very contradictory
But you wont admit it
Arya Stark spent three seasons training with various mentors. WTF is she doing in your list?
Yeah, this youtuber is just trying to get people angry and cause controversy in order to get more subscribers.
I haven't seen got but she was probably on that list because only a certain amount of people think that she's a Mary Sue
Its funny. All the people saying rey is a mary sue are the same people begging Disney to make starkiller Canon
you're not wrong haha
@@thegoldman25 star killer isn’t a Mary Sue if you actually do your research you clearly didn’t with rey
@@ATalesTruth- starkiller in 2 games is more powerful than Vader in 6 movies, 2 TV shows and more comics than anyone can count
Not really. I don't want Starkiller to be canon and I don't want Rey to be canon either. Stop putting words into the mouths of fans.
@@Crusty783 the second game is terrible and the whole clone thing is bad, I would only consider the first 1 even close to cannon, the second one is just as badly written as the sequels and rey
Just won yourself a subscription 👏
Thank you
@@thegoldman25 I agree with probably 99% of everything said so far, one thing I think you missed about Reys first duel with Kylo is not only was everything you said a factor but he did not want to kill her, he wanted to train her, he even said himself "you need a teacher"
I honestly don’t care what Disney does to Star Wars since I follow the legends timeline. But I’m happy for the people that like this new timeline
I can respect that, thank you for being happy for what I love. I’m happy you love legends
The Gold Man Your comment is really confusing me
Oh shit, I meant to say “I can respect that” that’s a typo, I will fix it. Lesson learned, always reread a comment!
scooty470 at least it’s creative and takes risk
@Spodo bbb so does legends
I hope people actually watch the video and understand both sides before commenting. But I know they won't.
Welcome to the internet
As someone who loves the sequels. THANK YOU!!!!!!
as someone who loves the sequels, thank you for watching!
This is the Rey
The dislikes show the toxicity in the Star Wars fandom. You're not insulting anyone, you're not calling anyone "sexist", you are just exposing solid arguments in a respectful and serious manner. So why the dislikes? I can bet most of those people didnt even watch 5 minutes of the video (yes, it's a long video, but with only a few minutes you can get what kind of video it is). Haters are so closed mind that they dont care about solid arguments, if the title disagrees with what they think they are just going to hate it before watching it.
So you can't disagree with someone now without somehow being toxic?
@@dangerdash4393 If you read the comments, there're people who dislike the sequels but recognize how good the video is and admit that he's right in some points. Thats how a solid and healthy debate begins.
If you dislike a video its usually because you think its a bad video. I understand disliking clickbait videos (like 90% of the Fandom Menace videos) or videos that insult people who think differently. He's not doing anything of that. So why the dislikes? Just because he has an statement different of what some fans want to believe despite he's presenting it in a respectful way with well searched arguments?
thank you so much!
Yes The Gold Man put a great effort into making the video, its very well made and he is well spoken and respectful, and anybody can appreciate that, agree or disagree with him.
The dislikes are because people just disagree, nothing wrong with that. The discourse in the comments from people who disagree are extremely civil for a RUclips video, not to mention a Star Wars RUclips video that can easily devolve into name calling and close mindedness.
I have watched over an hour and the points i agree on, are things i never really questioned in the first place, like her defending herself on Jakku. When he got to points like Kylo v Rey or other instances Rey being a Mary Sue his arguments became assumptions that reinforce his point of view. To sum it up,its just is Confirmation Bias.
@@geckomoriadaimyoofwano7157 Everything you said is fair enough. You're also expressing your point of view in a respectful manner. That's fine. However I'm sure that like 80% (at least) of those dislikes are just people that read the title and already hated the video without seen it. Because I don't see someone watching the video and thinking "oh, that was a good video and you got good points. But I don't agree so you get a dislike". The dislikes on RUclips are commonly use to express disapproval on a video you think is bad because of low quality or something you really hate (The Ghostbusters trailer, for example). If the video was a direct attack on the fans I would understand the dislikes, but its just a analysis done in a respectful manner.
Another cool thing about the ending of TROS was Rey's yellow lightsaber and the symbolism behind it. With all the colours of lightsabers having different meanings such as; green symbolising someone's strength or preference of the force, blue meaning someone's strength or preference in dueling, and so on, I thought it was a good idea to make her lightsaber yellow as (from what I can tell) it symbolises defence and protecting others first and foremost. This fits in nicely with Rey's character being tied to compassion and it atones for the mistakes she made throughout the movie that put her friends in danger, and it's her compassionate actions such as healing the murderous snake and Ben Solo that led her to finding that colour for her lightsaber crystal. Plus the hilt is made up of parts from her staff which ties in her scavenging roots, all in all it shows her journey from being alone to someone with a family to protect. Great video by the way you really understand the characters brought in the sequel trilogy and I enjoyed the whole way through.
thanks for watching!
LETTTTSSSSS GOOOOOOO, time to lock myself in my room for 2 hours.
I hope you enjoy!
Interesting video. As someone who hated the sequels, I'm glad you were able to change my mind on a few points. Even though I still dislike the sequel trilogy, I now have a new look on Rey's character and enjoy the character more. Keep up the amazing work you put in your videos!!
Thank you so much for sharing! I’m glad to hear I changed your opinion for the better :)
To be fair the problem with the sequels are the rights and not the characters (except kylo in 7-8)
Dude u responded to every comment
+Respect
I try my best, thank you for noticing