The BlueAir Filter Problem
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- It seems that my first series of videos after returning from my sabbatical are going to be about the numerous problems that I have been having to deal with in the Lab for the past couple months, and the first in this "Problem Series" is a rant about the issues I have been having with my BluAir HEPA filter machines, specifically with the top end activated carbon filters.
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Really like the new opening sequence. Let’s hope blue air comes around...
I don't have - and know nothing about - the Blue Air systems. However I have been using a different brand (Aerus) of air filter system at home for over 10 years. Their filters also have activated carbon and I have never noticed any "off" odor of any kind. Same with aftermarket filters for the units. Just room air in one end and clean air out the other end. We have one in our apartment and one in my workshop office, so I would notice any smell. So I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with the activated carbon itself - but it may be something with other materials or processes used in making them. I'm also mindful that the filters I have are for residential use, not industrial. Just my thoughts, with no comment on the execrable quality of customer dis-service you have experienced.
Given BlueAir's position in the industry and their extensive marketing, and now the negative coverage from multiple people, you'd think they'd want to get to the bottom of this.
I still haven't had a single issue with mine, but I don't run them all day, and I'm in the middle of the burbs with clean air.
IQAIRRRRRRRRRR
its swiss ;)
It sounds like the hallmark of a shit company.
In China we all know these are overpriced and overhyped.
Smartair filters are much better
A quality company wouldn't run away and hide behind corporate BS when customers have concerns about the product and then blame the customer for the company's shortcomings. Working in high tech I've found that no matter how well the products are engineered, if you have douche bags in management that company will always have some problem.
@@oscardb9131 Not so sure what you are trying to say, but just in case, BlueAir seems to be a swedish company. That's Sweeden, NOT Switzerland. Different country and some 1100 miles apart from eachother! :-)
Here is an idea: take one of the sour filters, a cheap 20x20 inch fan, and duct-tape the filter to the fan. This will force air through the filter. If the sour odour persists, then the issue is exclusively with the filter; otherwise it could be the motor in the filter generating ozone or overheating due to poor airflow.
I would definitely suspect the pressure drop of the more restrictive filter is causing hot motor and/or wiring. Enameled motor windings have a distinctive smell when they get hot. The resultant fumes may have even saturated the carbon filters by now so a box-fan test could be misleading.
I'd also try not running the fans on the higher settings. At a lower speed the problem may not occur but you'd have to settle for the lower airflow.
Since you suspect this smell is acidic, if you had some pH indicator paper in your lab, you could tape a tiny strip over an outlet, and another as a control on top of the fan unit say, and _just maybe_ in a few days/weeks it may show some signs - I know it's liable to be very weak, but if you could show more positive evidence of low pH, that might raise the interest from BlueAir a bit, up to 'level 1' say ? :o) Just brainstorming here Fran :o)
Would have to be a narrow range pH paper though, probably one that responds only from pH5 to ph8, and you probably would want to let it run dry for a week, then add a drop of triple distilled water to it to show the adsorbed organic acids if any.
Just watched the video and came to suggest same, measurements beyond just odor seems like the best next step.
Motor windings getting hot? You mention low air flow so back pressure on the motor will be high.
I think you win, the motor on mine gets blazing hot. these machines were not made to be run 24/7 on a lower setting motor heats and off gasses. the heat the motor produces may also degrade the charcoal.
Lol maybe Blueair needs to watch some RUclips videos on engineering.
That was my first thought.
Second thought was how long do they last?
Ignoring your messages is not acceptable. I'd bundle the whole lot back to the company for a full refund.
Can you team up with a university lab or something to analyse the saturation of the carbon pellets in some way?
For a simple test maybe you could send Fran one of your filters which may rule out environmental causes and point towards a manufacturing defect. Though I do think it would be interesting to compare the carbon from differently sourced filters using something like FTIR spectroscopy; as you point out, the main difficulty is getting access to the equipment. If the access problem could be solved, then it's only a matter of comparing suspected-sour and suspected-good filters which could implicate a source (if the carbon component is the problem...).
..... Or send her a filter purchased here ?
(In addition to your previous generosity).
@@robbieaussievic If Dave and Fran can swap filters it should help isolate the problem. Is it something with the filters themselves or is it just something in the environment?
Would guess it is a batch problem, as it is likely the filters are all made from media sourced from a few Chinese suppliers. One of them either had a major problem with production of the media, or it was contaminated in shipping with some organic substance or the other in the same container that broke, but it was not noticed in production (or QA was just a rubber stamp) till the batch was out there.
To decide if it is a filter issue you would need somebody with a GCMS to take a sample of the filter that has a definite odour and wash with first ultra pure water ( ionic compounds) and see the trace elements, and then a second sample from the same filter washed with hexane, to get the non ionic components. Compare with a new filter ( or a sample from Dave) to see the difference, and whay the sour component is.
I would guess it is a thiol, either from a reaction due to the activated charcoal acting as a catalyst, or there is a metal contaminant in the media, likely nickel from stainless steel machinery wear, that is catalysing the degradation. The amount depending on the ambient humidity, the local dew point to get water to adsorb in a thin film on the media surface, and how much has been adsorbed in the carbon film getting released by a temperature change. Sulphur compounds all smell sour, and often they are organic acids as well, or at least can be broken down into them. might also be a chloramine, from reactions that replace a bond with chlorine from the inevitable NaCl contaminants in the environment, as getting anything absolutely sodium chloride free is really hard.
Cody at codyslab has been doing a lot of videos on making activated carbon. His chemistry knowledge would make a good collaboration to find out what is going on.
After reviewing your video's regarding the BlueAir Carbon Filters; I firmly believe the manufacture has a major problem with their product design. From your description and other complaint posting it indicates the filters are not up to standard and should last at least six months to a year depending on use. BlueAir know they have a problem and refuse to address the situation, "personally I would not invest in such deceptive advertisement".
I would hazard a guess that BlueAir was inundated with thousands of complaints around the time of their offer to replace your filters for free, so they decide to just ignore all the complaints and pretend everything is fine with their product.
Once they new there was a problem and the extent was so large in scale that they would have to replace 10's of thousands they probably said Fuk it. Meanwhile they have their lab team reformulating a fix to their faulty science so that the bad filters will be ran through and then once those are gone they can say they dont have a problem publicly and boom. They're in the clear. Just my opinion but sounds legit.
Please considering reporting your problem with Blue Air to Consumer Reports. They have evaluated air purifiers and posted ratings on their website. Many of the CR's reader and subscriber comments mention a terrible smell coming from the filters. Heck, you could even submit this video to them for reference.
Many have. That’s why I am here. I found this video via Amazon reviews on how bad the filters are. It’s all over Reddit as well. They do not. Care.
What will you bet that the filters are being made under contract in China using cheaper materials than the company specs require.
I suspect even if its "made" here who knows where the source products are from and one change in that can have major effects. The whole coconut carbon thing seems weird to me, any organic product that has been turned to charcoal should be as effective as any other as long as the density is the same. The noise/output issues seems pretty on par with what I have seen of similar products lately. Loud, powerful and not designed to adapt to load.
@@richspillman4191 LOL must be why Japan is paying mexican workers 3x the salary instead of investing in american workers.
Thanks for the update. I was strongly considering buying a BlueAir because of pollen, but I really can't be bothered dealing with a company who can't offer good support. I'll pass and keep an eye out for another brand.
@@FranLab try a diffetent brand filtre (or learn to make your own)
I've been using two Coway AP-1512HH filters for a few years and they're good. I even got a cheap particle detector from China and it showed they were effective.
If I owned Blue Air I would be extremely unhappy with my product ,Especially after watching this and other videos on the quality of my product, I'd call in my staff and berate them on what the f**k is going on with my product and take action! That's what people who are responsible for their products should do! Take responsibility!
I use the Winix brand HEPA air cleaners. I also have a Rabbit brand, but I dislike their non-dimmable LEDs (a 5 min delay to shut down as a "children's room night light" is a feature I don't need).
Well, my purchase decision has been delayed (or deleted)...thanks Fran!
Hi Fran, Jessica here from the Blueair team. Very sorry to see that we've made your problem video series. I've connected with our Customer Experience team, and they will reach out to you shortly if they haven't gotten in touch already.
I want to reassure you (and your viewers) that our intension was not to ignore your emails. Our Customer Experience team has experienced a huge influx of calls and emails over the last few months. While we've taken steps to ensure all customer inquiries get addressed in a timely manner, it appears that was not the case with your emails. I completely understand your frustration here, and I'm very sorry for that.
So what is causing this smell? Very disappointing and makes me feel ill. Thought an animal had died somewhere! Help!
Designed for a Lead Guitarist.
Fan Speed: 00=Off, 01=Low, 10=High, “11=ELEVEN”
Smell: New filter= Bar/Smoking Lounge, Used filter= Bar/Smoking Lounge.
Hey, that's even a binary sequence ...
I would highly recommend assembling a carbon filter system from generic components, preferably with a carbon filter that can be refilled with loose carbon.
Any product that uses proprietary filters and where you cannot replace a failed component will be substantially more expensive to buy and maintain, and may simply become useless if any part of it is no longer suitable for your needs. The Blueair systems appear to be designed for basic domestic, low-demand applications. I find the integration of wi-fi connectivity on such a basic product to be quite telling about their priorities.
I would recommend foregoing the electrostatic filter and just getting a cylindrical HEPA filter, an inline centrifugal fan that can accept speed control, and a cylindrical carbon filter with some thickness to it.
Such a setup is easy to assemble since it is all inline cylindrical fittings and having a filter on both sides of the fan dampens the noise, if the fan is still noisy you can wrap some acoustic foam around it covering up to the filters. Most large carbon filters can be refilled even if they were closed with rivets, just be sure the carbon you are getting is appropriate for efficient air filtration, there is little difference between different carbons other than the efficiency, the fine extruded carbon tends to be appropriate.
If you still want electrostatic filtration I believe a dedicated unit would be a better choice than a combined unit, there is little benefit to operating a carbon filter in series with an electrostatic type, and the benefit of any sort of filter after an electrostatic filter is not massive unless the machine is actually using the filter material as the electrostatic precipitation plate which I doubt is the case here.
There is a lot of variation and choice in offerings, leaving me somewhat confused re your suggestion. Any chance you could give some specific examples of what you are recommending?
Thanks!
I had a BlueAir 605 and returned it because they would not answer my questions or phone calls. In a response to an email sent on 25 Jan 2020:
Dear Sirs:
1. I'm disappointed that the device which will make the 605 function in auto is out of stock. Do you have any idea when the Blueair Aware device will be available again? Did I make a mistake of buying a 605 when I should have bought the Pro L?
2. You advertise all over your web site and in your manual the filters last 6 months. The unit has a sticker inside that the filters last 6 months. Why did the Blueair Friend app start counting down from 180 days for filter replacement (see screenshot from iOS app)? Can you tell me why I would choose the particle over the smokestop filter for a replacement? I can't discern the difference between the two filter replacements. I would like to sign up for the filter replacement program but want to make an informed decision before I do so.
3. Can you validate my extended warranty is valid? I have registered it in the app but I do not see it under "My Units" when I log into your website. The unit was purchased on Amazon.com through your Blueair Inc. store. Order number is (redacted). I've attached a screenshot from the mobile app and from your website.
Another email was sent on February 15, 2020:
Dear Sirs:
Thank you for helping me make an informed decision regarding my purchase and that I had made a mistake purchasing from your company. You had over 2.5 weeks to return my email or call my telephone number that I included. Because you have not returned my email nor can I get a hold of any one on your phone system, I have returned the unit in lieu of a IQAir system.
I am highly disappointed. I had better expectations for your company.
----
The fact that they ghosted you is not surprising and is expected. This is an awful company and I will never buy another product from them ever again nor will I recommend their product. I found the air monitor was sold out for months. I also did not like the fact that certain functions like the blue light on the front of the unit could only be controlled by the app on your mobile phone. There was no button to disable it. Likewise their marketing material is awful. You'll get 6 months out of the filter if you run the machine at the 2 lowest "HEPA Quiet" settings. Otherwise, if you run the machine at full speed, you'll only get 3 months out of the filters. No where in the documentation nor printed on the inside of the machines is this stated. This is classic bait and switch.
Another item is this is charges the air attracting the particles (almost like a small scale ionization system). There was no in take filter so the little brushes on the 605 unit inside when they become dirty or dusty will loose their effectiveness. There was no method to keep the bottom of the unit clean other than to take the filters out and drag it to my garage and clean it with pressurized air.
In the end, there was too much marketing hype and I returned it. I bought it for the very same reason. I did the very same research. It all looked good on paper. I'm sorry you're having this issue but I figured I'd respond because I got the very same lack of customer service. I was in dismay that a company which received such high reviews in consumer reports had such poor support for their customers.
My 2 cents: return the units and get your money back. Choose a different company that stands by their customers. Oh yeah, if you order the 3rd party filters you void your warranty on the units so make sure you buy your filters from blueair direct if you care about the longevity of your unit.
I’ll be very honest. I have 3 units and they are awesome. I had an issue with one and customer service responded to my email in one day and had a replacement at my house in less than a week. Im going to buy one more Thai week
3 units running 24/7 combatting 2 cats and 2 dogs (huskies) no issues
If it is ozone, it will be the "electric" smell you find around old style photocopiers. In some places, it is the smell after a thunderstorm.
Run the machine, then take out the filter and smell the duct upstream from the filter. If you smell it there it might not be from the filter itself. Maybe, let the filter sit out for a while (15 min+) and smell it. If you can't smell anything, that might rule out mold.
Reducing the amount of ozone in the air is a reasonable claim. 2O(3) + 3C -> 3CO(2) is the likely reaction. If there is ozone being generated and there is a leak, the ozone might not be destroyed in the filter. If that happens, you won't smell anything in the filter after waiting.
It's possible that this a defect from the filter manufacturer.
Hi Fran. I can't comment on your filters as I don't know anything about them, but I would like to say that it's terrific to see you in an "up" mood and 'Franting'. I was worried about you after your previous video in that you seemed so "down".
This video is the Fran we know and love!
I hope you are able to get some resolution to your filter problems - and soon.
We want you healthy and enjoying working in the lab, not feeling 'blue and having to chase down solutions to problems that you shouldn't be having in the first place!
Hang in there and best of luck and good wishes to you.
Hi, I've worked a lot with AC, and can tell you that 1. it might simply be growth of bacteria in the media it self. 2. You can purchase loose AC granulates and fill them in your self, the media is very cheap. 3. It is expected for these consumer based products not to be up to commercial standard, a 6 week run time of the AC is expected, i can run it for a 2 week period with 2kg of granulates at 80m3/h and get smell to penetrate the AC bed around that time. Big beds of AC is recommended and consumer based filters rarely have that.
Have you tested filters from another company, that will fit the BlueAir Machines??? Testing different filters and getting different results would definitely show that the BlueAir Filters are bad and they should replace them.
there is also a tutorial from NASA if the new filter doesnt fit the machine receptacle with parts you can find around.
@@xiro6 Requires plenty of duct tape I believe.
Blueair: "Let's be an ostrich and bury our head in the sand to make all our problems disappear!"
According to the EPA, "ozone may also increase indoor concentrations of formic acid (Zhang and Lioy, 1994)", if the manufacturer is falsely claiming no ozone is produced, this may be your odor source.
I heard ionization produces a foul order but only a small percentage of folks with a sharp enough nose can detect it. I'll bet thats whats going on. The ionizer may not be active all the time or when the filter soaks up certain elements in the right amounts it goes sour. Maybe a combination of ionization and some elements piled up in the filter or something.
I was wondering if their "no-ozone" was possibly depending on the activated carbon eliminating the ozone? The other thing worth trying to check is the plastic materials in the units, including any frame of the filters. If the ions and/or ozone attack them, the plasizisers might suffer. THEN, and maybe even more -- do they have some silicone RTV in their seals. There are the two kinds, as you probably know. One is humidity curing and the other one uses some sort of acetic acid reaction...Some polyurethane also can "de-cure", turning into nearly a fluid. I have had two unpleasant experiences of that, although I don't recall any acidic smell. But the acetic acid curing smell of silicone RTV is unmistakable.
Hi Fran - the timing of your video is perfect. I had mentioned in your previous video comments that in my lab the activated carbon filters also become sour. Today I installed a fresh filter, and within an 8hr work day (with very little solvent use), it started to smell sour.
At this point I am certain this is a quality issue with the activated carbon. All of my filters are manufactured in China. I suspect most of the world sources their activated carbon from China for cost reasons. It is possible that BlueAir is using this carbon as well and thus you are experiencing the same problems that I am.
I am sure you looked into this but if not any way to turn of the electrostatic part to see if that is causing a reaction?
I bought a Blueair classic 605 last fall and had to return it because it was producing a strong odor. To me it smelled like ozone, or metallic. I didn't buy the fancy carbon filters, just used the standard particle filter. So Fran, you are having a better experience than I did - I couldn't stand the smell even with the regular filters. I was disappointed that I couldn't own a magical machine that makes the air clean (especially given that neighboring towns tend to burn down and pollute the air, in the summer, here in northern California, lately), but I was happy that I could return it and get my money back.
I would so much love to have an air purifier with only washable filters. When fire season comes around this year, maybe I'll buy a box fan and slap a HEPA filter on the intake side.
I love the opening title
Best opening of any RUclips channel I've seen.
@EEVBlog - Really???
Do the carbon filters come in a vacuum sealed bag? I'm thinking, if the vacuum is gone, the carbon might already be spent, so to speak, if they for example have been sitting on a shelf for a few months.
The air purification business is full of companies making junk. I would stick to Honeywell or 3M.
I use a ‘Mountain Air’ carbon filter for my “herbal plants”
But I don’t understand why Fran just doesn’t vent the fumes outside. It’s far more effective and cheaper than scrubbing and recirculating the air.
@@MoebiusUK Then you would have to filter the dirty city air that leaks in the building from the low pressure caused by venting.
@@oswaldjh Fran said her concern were the gases that came from her experiments not the city air.
The city air is what she’ll breathe when she goes outside anyway.
Unless her lab is hermetically sealed she’ll be getting in city air even with her current recirculating sets up ... not least every time a door or window is opened. (I see windows in her lab).
Effective closed-loop ‘recirculating’ systems are expensive and difficult to maintain. and there’s little point setting one up if you’re not actively detecting and monitoring the different gas levels in the air. .... Fran doesn’t know if the air she’s recirculating is cleaner than the city air without testing.
Moebius Outdoor air (makeup air) is also unconditioned air so there is the expense from the increased load on your HVAC to consider when you vent directly outdoors. An EEV helps but, again, at considerable expense.
Had my Honeyells for years! running on medium 24/7 no problems?
It's most likely because the ionizer was reacting to a chemical. Ionizers can produce formaldehyde, if they are producing too much ozone. It's possible some units malfunction and their generators go up full charge. That could be the smell.
Any mileage in sharing carbon filter part nos/datecodes/place of manufacture/other data with Dave Jones' and the Dutch blogger's versions ? They may be different filters from yours of course, but maybe some telltale fact might drop out of the data bucket ?
I worked in carbon for filters company once. Buy the tons. I say that worker or in shipping to filter factory had something spilled or strong chemicals place near the carbon. So they where made and no one knew about it. So corporate has COVID problems with money and can’t afford a loss as big as this. So denial is not just river in Egypt.
I have an original 600 model, purchased back in 2006. I have never used the smoke filters, and I've never had any issues. The model I have doesn't have any kind of ionization ability: Air in, Filter, Air Out. I purchased mine when I found out that they were used by the hospitals in New Orleans to clean the air after the hurricane flooding. I've been very happy, and have considered getting a newer version for the ionization features. I think I will be waiting another year or two until this gets resolved. Thank you for the videos, and hope all goes well!
Sooo glad I searched and found this. Ironically, I watched one of your videos prior to me purchasing my blue air classic 280 and the smaller room version. I too, had filter with funny smell..I too got replacements and had same smell. I was told it might be the carbon. I too....have has respiratory irritation. I think that these machines are emitting ozone or other vocs....I placed my air quality montior on it and it WENT CRAZY. Shot right up to over 2000ppb. Turned the machine off and it started to go down. I think they need to be looked into.
The negative reviews and discussion I've seen on this topic appear to point the finger at badly processed 'coconut carbon' in the filter. The only way to know for sure what is happening to the filter is to get some testing done to see exactly what it's out-gassing.
I bought a 200 series machine several years ago and did not experience any issues with the initial filter. Then I purchased replacement filters which emitted the most foul chemical odor upon opening the package. I left the filters to “breathe” thinking maybe the packaging had caused the odor. The chemical smell took on a life of it’s own over the course of a week- growing to the point of filling a 1200 square foot area and causing severe migraines. I repackaged the filters and contacted BluAir after seeing others had reported the same issue. I never received a response from BluAir and was forced to discard the rather pricey filters after the stench continued to overpower the space and I could no longer bear the discomfort. I now have an expensive machine which I cannot use and I would certainly never recommend BluAir to anyone.
One thing you may or may not be able to try, is to collect all of the complaints you can, then find an attorney or lawyer who will take it Pro Bone ("For the good of the people"), or on a "percentage" basis, (no win=they don't get paid anything), & have them send a letter on their law firms' letterhead mentioning a Class-Action, & see if that doesn't get BlueAir's attention VERY quickly.
I've NEVER heard of a properly made Activated Charcoal filter emitting ANY odors; it MAY have something to do with the overall design, particularly of the proximity of the Charcoal Filter material to the high-voltage ionizing wire(s), as carbon DOES conduct, & if the machines are producing a regular "Zap!" sound, see if it's the normal "blowing out a dust-formed short" in the electrostatic precipitator cell, or if it's actually coming from the high-voltage wire closest to the carbon filter shorting to the filter, causing a partial breakdown of the filtering matrix.
(I've worked with high voltage, ionizers, etc., most of my lifetime, and have never heard of this sort of thing, but I DO know that if the charcoal filters aren't being made properly, a high-voltage "Zot!" through one could, at least in theory, cause a partial breakdown of the carbon matrix.)
That's the only thing I can think of, though I wish I could be of more help! 8(
Good luck with it!
(...And see if a more reputable company, such as 3M, who's been making things like Activated Charcoal Filters for decades, makes an equivalent replacement charcoal filter, as they make replacement filters for furnaces of all shapes & sizes, among other things.)
(I've always gotten my calls to their Engineering Dept. returned, or they'll put someone on the line immediately, who has been there "forever", & "knows their stuff" about the given subject.)
P.S.:
For a much cheaper & probably better product, with a 100% guarantee, look on "geek.wish.com".
There are two sites, I think they're interlinked: "Geek" has a green background logo, while "Wish" has a light-blue logo, but I've seen some air-filtration units on one or both of those sites with very good specs, & when I get something that's "just not right", I take a photo or short video & send it, with my comments about what's wrong with the item, to them, & they've never failed to have the full cost (including shipping!) returned to my account within 48-hrs.
They each have a "search box", where you can specify what you're looking for, since they handle orders from all over the world, & ship almost everywhere as well. I prefer to select the "Expedited Shipping" when available, since it usually means the item is "in-country", or at least they'll get it to you much faster then if it's "drop-shipped" from who-knows-where; the additional shipping fee is worth it, & you can filter for only things with a logo which means "Expedited Shipping Available". (I do NOT work for them, although I AM a loyal customer, so if you wish to go that route, I'll se if I can find a "Referral Code" that'll get you a significant discount on a "New Customer, 1st Order", on top of their usually unbeatable low prices to begin with. I'm wearing items I got from there, my wristwatch is solar-recharged & has never needed any attention after I took it out of the box & set it, & I've been replacing all of the lights in the house with LED-equivalents, all bot one of which have been working perfectly... (I took a short video of the one with a "dead spot", attached it to a note to their Customer Support Dept., & my account was refunded within a day.)
(Also, if I can find a source of the machines I got decades ago, & put one of in my parents' home, (while they were still alive), or my own, (long ago, before my wife died, & I ended up in the mid-west USA, where I didn't plan to be spending my later years, alone), I'll forward it to you, as in my parents' home, after only a week, going INTO the house felt like going outside just after a refreshing brief lightning storm, & they got many comments from friends & neighbors about how "fresh & clean it FEELS" inside, & those units only had a stai8nless-steel washable pre-filter, electrostatic precipitator cell, ionizer, & stainless washable post-filter. Those things never did "wear out"!)
Remember, as John Muir often said, "Perseverance Furthers"!
Phoenix NightOwl Jr.
Is there an update to this issue? Thinking about buying one D:
Franair a new business after frantone and franlab😃!
I bought a Blue Air 411 when my husband had covid. Dr. friend suggested it and told me where to place in the room and open the window. This was in July, in Arizona. Very hot! I had it six months, worked great and bought a new carbon filter from Amazon, but it was a Blue Air, and replaced it and it quit working. Since it was Covid, when I reached a guy there, he said he would just send me a new machine and normally,, I would have to return the first machine, but to not worry about it. I received the new machine and it has been working great. I run it 24/7. I replaced the first filter in December, then at the end of May. Within two weeks, my filter Indicator turned orange. I tried contacting them to no avail. I purchased a new filter from Amazon and installed it yesterday. It is working great. So....I did receiving great customer service during covid, but now, no one has reached out to my email. The filters are now $79.00 from 59.00 and I am wondering if it is worth keeping the machine or replacing with a different brand.....advice would be welcome. Thanks!
oh dang I wa sliterally about to buy some of these, now I have to empty my cart and research different filter options... Thanks for the heads up.
Go with iQair, very old but reliable design, expensive but the filter elements last years.
I recommend IQAir as well.
I noticed the same type of smell with a set of BlueAir Smoke Shop filters. Shame on BlueAir for ignoring your complaint. Thanks for the great video.
Why not just buy (or build) an activated carbon filter and add a good particulate filter before it (intake side). For a carbon filter to work properly you need at least 1 1/2" (75mm) thick of activated carbon pellets. There is very little resistance in this type of filter and the pellets work like a muffler to dampen any air flow noise. For a fraction of the cost you could make much better performing and almost dead quite filters that would likely last at least 2 years before you need to replace the carbon pellet (rather inexpensive). You can buy the cylindrical carbon filters and easily mount super quiet axial fans to them and wrap a particulate filter around the cylinder. My neighbor burns wood in the winter and this type of filter on my gas furnace fresh air intake, eliminates any smoke from entering my house.
My suspicion is that these units are producing ozone and the carbon filters are inadequate to filter out the ozone (at least not for very long). A proper carbon filter should produce almost pure air, because almost everything in the universe wants to readily bond to carbon atoms, due to their molecular structure.
Dear mighty Algorithm. Please bump Frans video.
How can you so tech smart and so street, well, "non-smart"
First, you lodge a complaint with you state's attorney general
Second, you lodge a written complaint with your state's consumer protection agency. Always make the complain in hard written form delivered by REGISTERED MAIL (yeah, it makes a big difference)
Third, find out if they are supplying any state or federal agencies with their machines or the filters
Fourth, you sic your congressman or state Sen.or Rep. On the whole problem...are they supplying any senior citizen facilities in your state?)
Fifth, you begin "shopping" the now developing story to whatever local then broadcast media. But be careful with the foreign made materials angle, a LOT of media is so one world oriented that they will turn off if you push that aspect. Only ask what health safeguard they had in place when they or a outsource made the garbage....
If you do all of the above, THEN there's a Real Penalty for their nonsense, otherwise it's all fun and games.....
i've used the Blueair Blue 211+ and two 411 for a few years now. I've never had a single problem from either model.
I have used BlueAir 600’s for more than 20 years. My issue was asthma, sleep apnea, and dust mite allergies. I am also sensitive to the ozone. I spent way too much time researching indoor air issues.
(1) EPA white paper warns of dirty filters spreading pollutants once they are “full”.
(2) cooking generates the most air quality degradation. And Almost No one uses their hood vent fans.
Have You tried PURPLE AIR monitors ? I bought 2 one indoors an one outdoors. The indoor monitor reports high levels during food prep especially the NAT gas stove top. The outdoor monitor report high levels during commuting times and during house and wild fires. Purple Air has maps of your own and other world wide monitors so you can compare. My city, Encinitas has other Purple Air Installations and I see similer results.
The Purple Air monitor an EPA accepted dual design for better accuracy/reliability. They measure partial though and not VOC’s . Your VOCs may vary and come from furnishings ( though I admit I haven’t seen to many on the videos.) Particle board shelves (formaldehyde), Cheep spray foam insulation some times used to seal window and door frames, Carpet backing, sofa cushions..... I am not the chemist in the family but one of them could help you with that. For my issues I replace ALL the carpeting with hardwood floors ( I see you have narrow old oak floor good choice) Perhaps a heat exchanging fresh air system like the one I had installed for my sisters radon issues. It sucks in fresh air and uses a heat exchanger to warm/cool it to reduce the energy footprint of having to warm up cold or cool down hot air. What’s the humidity like in there. I have to keep the humidity close to %50, much higher and the dreaded scourge of dust mites arrives. Luck
Ps SH Series Heat Recovery Ventilator w/ Fan Shutdown Defrost, 4" Side Ports (up to 1,400 Sq. Ft.)
Glad I found your video, I was considering purchasing this product but their response (or lack of) is a real turn off. I'd be ok if they owned up to it and made it right, every company has it's hiccups but to just ghost you, nope, I won't buy their product.
Wow! You are definitely feeling better. Big difference in your energy level and your outlook.
Hang in there, baby! We all love ya!
Thanks very much for the info, I was just about to pull the trigger on 2 units, I will be researching an alternative. I hope you are on the mend. Keep up the great work.
So is the problem solved ?
I have a few thoughts, having used activated carbon filters in breathing apparatus for years. These thoughts are a bit disjointed so it's difficult to see how they apply or how to draw conclusions for your case Fran, but knowledge is power. Hopefully you and others can build on this information.
1. All methods of activating charcoal are "natural". That word means nothing in this context so it can mean anything that blueair want it to. There are two main methods of activating charcoal: physical activation and chemical activation. Physical activation involves heating in an inert atmosphere to between 600 and 900 Celsius (1100-1650F) and holding it there while the activation completes. Chemical activation involves impregnating the charcoal with an acid, base or a salt (usually phosphoric acid, sodium hydroxide, or calcium chloride) and heating it to 250 to 500 Celsius (480-930F). Chemical activation is usually preferred, because of the lower temperatures required.
2. Carbon filters when new can sometimes give the air a slight smell, presumably due to the chemical used. Since they are used in breathing apparatus and I've never had any reaction (I'm asthmatic) I presume the smell is not in any way injurious. In my experience it's a light, not unpleasant, chemical smell.
3. I've never noticed any significant reduction in airflow when adding a carbon filter. The effect of the carbon filter element on airflow or the ability to draw air though it is slight. Maybe about the same as a particle filter as it nears time to replace it.
4. Activated carbon is the same as normal carbon, but is simply more porous. The process "opens up" the carbon to present a greater surface area. The carbon doesn't need to "filter" anything the way a particle filter does. Instead the molecules in the air are placed in close proximity to the carbon, which attracts and holds things like organic compounds and solvents. It's possible to make a carbon filter that has almost no effect on airflow, except for a "drag coefficient" for the air past the carbon elements.
5. The attraction between the carbon and organic substances and solvents is one of weak molecular adhesion (van der Waals force for example)
6. The 'end of life' for a carbon filter is when a greater number of molecules are knocked off the carbon as others come in contact. Typically, heavier molecules will displace lighter ones, so adhered ozone molecules (if they haven't reacted with something) will mostly likely be displaced by heavier organic molecules.
7. A carbon filter should be protected from being blocked by smaller particles by putting the particle filter first. The particle filter in turn should be protected from larger dust by a replaceable or washable pre-filter. I notice that this is something that a lot of these companies don't get right. Since this is basic knowledge, I can only think it's done intentionally, since it will necessitate more frequent changes of the activated carbon element. A good filter set up will have separate elements for all three, since they can have different maintenance times.
8. bonus fun fact: 450g (1lb) of activated carbon has a molecular surface area of 40ha (100 acres). This is why activated carbon is able to adsorb such a large amount of organic compounds, and why they should last a relatively long time compared to the particle filter, as long as you keep the junk out of them.
I have the experience with 'humidifying' air filters and coolers, that they will take in dust, and that will over time make them smell sour.
The carbon filters should themselves not form a smell, but once they get a certain level of moisture, they will be a good breeding-ground for mold an fungus.
A sour smell would indicate an acidic component, but that might be part of the filter material.
I would hypothesise that the air-flow through the filter is uneven and that you have an AC close by, that cycles on/off. That would allow the filter to cool down when the AC runs, accumulate water when the AC is off and the humidity rises, and store some of the accumulated water in the regions of the filter that does not get good circulation. I daresay that the carbon filters were an afterthought of BlueAir, not a part of the base design.
A simple test would be to place a filter in direct sunlight to dry completely and see if the situation improves.
Dang, that's unfortunate, sounds like something real shady is going on with them just not replying.
I noticed on that screenshot of their site they say the filters are "coconut based", maybe that's the issue. If they're using organic materials in the construction, maybe their preservation techniques have failed and the organics are starting to decay or ferment.
"activated charcoal" or "activated carbon" filters should have had all the all the original organics baked out by the charcoaling process, literally reducing to to pure carbon by being baked at a high temperature which also creates micropores (the "activated" part) all over the charcoal particles.
@@dj1NM3 Good to know, I guess I misread that and thought they used organic fibers in the filter construction. Since only the charcoal is from an organic source maybe their "activated charcoal pellets" are a bit undercooked.
@@dj1NM3 If done correctly, there might be a batch or three around which still has parts contaminated with the remains of the original husk in it, from either stopping the burn early (increase yield) or wanting to get the batch out in a hurry.
I have been running air purifiers of multiple brands for many many years, I think the problem you are having is that with the dual filters with active carbon are causing the motors to pull much harder, and as these filters begin to filter out particles they begin to pull much harder making the motors run warm, I think the smell is coming from the insulation in the fan motor. I experienced this same sort of problem a few years ago with another brand purifier. My fall back is always to my tried and true whirlpool whisper, kenmore progressive air purifiers - filters are reasonable and the darn things just keep going and going and going.
I recently invested in the HealthProtect 7770i because of the stupid RFID filters. I kinda figured this means that they're phasing out the older filters. They have a bunch of bull on their website about how this means the filters can tell you when they need to be replaced but we all know that they're not building RFID chips with a full sensor array for sniffing the out air other than whats already built into the actual unit.
We all know they're just trying to make HEPA printer cartridges.
That being said, the only issue I have had is its sensor array going off line and not adjusting the fan speed with air quality.
Not sure if you'll see this, but how is the 7770i at cleaning the air? I have been looking at it, but have seen some mixed reviews about its effectiveness.
@@SilvioManfredDante it works great!! I love mine but it's pretty loud. My 2x 7470i are much quieter. The filters also don't last more than 6-8 months but blueair is very transparent about that.
I let all three of mine run 24/7 with the germguard on which helps keep the filter sterile.
Only real issue I have is that they frequently disconnect from my wifi network and I have a really nice ubiquiti mesh. I'm also not even close to the only one with this issue. Blue Air responded to a fart joke I made on Facebook but they never got back to me about this Wi-Fi issue that I made a post about. -_-
So happy to see a back to normal video! I’m so excited for more rants
I wanted to buy an "air washer" for my bedroom, to try and address brutally-low humidity in the winter months (and dust). Then, I saw the prices... I ended up getting separate units: a large-reservoir cool-air humidifier (with humidistat) and a Honeywell "medium room" HEPA filter. Granted, my bedroom is 8' X 10', but MAN can I breathe so much better when I sleep! I change the activated carbon pre-filters every 6 weeks, despite being rated for 3 months, because they clog up too quickly. (The carbon is still effective and the room's air still smells fresh at this point.)
I know this doesn't exactly relate to the BlueAir, as obviously a $60 "medium bedroom" consumer unit is nothing compared to a high-end machine - but the Honeywell filters don't get a sour smell, and when paying for a premium product at a premium price, the consumer should get premium performance. If my filters don't stink, yours shouldn't either. In your position, I would not be pleased at all with the product, OR their customer service.
my search turns up complaints over 7 years old and Blueair seems to blame the problem on uncured or under cured adhesives in the filter. one suggestion has been to put the filters in a hot environment for a couple of days to finish the curing, they have suggested putting them outside in the sun for a couple of days. out gassing adhesive would be the issue.
What chemicals are you using in your lab? I've had one of these for years and it's never smelled
These filters are in some way similar to car air conditioning filters: you can find standard or carbon activated ones, from different sources and different origins. Smell source can be first associated with mold, but it's also a common problem with glue used to assemble it, or other chemicals that may compromise integrity. You could choose a local (US) supplier of filters for industrial use, you can always find one that will be pleased to sell you some stuff, and their high performance materials are not that expensive. Best filters are not necessary carbon based, and can integrate a lot of different technologies, from HEPA to diatomea, to silver coated glass beads to extra fine cellulose... Anyway, you can also fight bad smells and PH air balance with the old trick of baking soda, aka sodium bicarbonate, you can dispose in little containers like dishes in front of all ventilator or air filtering machine. It's a pH neutralizer and adsorbant that costs nothing if you buy it in quantity, a 25kg bag top quality can be ordered from Amazon for a few bucks. This works well in fridges, cars, and has many other uses as mild sanding agent, disinfectant, toothpaste, bleaching agent,...and baking powder! You can measure the air pH with a glass of distilled water that will catch contaminants (and check it with swimming pool pH tips), but your nose is best detector: if it stinks, there's a problem! Another point to check is correct grounding of these air filters, as static charges, ionizing agents or ozone can only be neutralized if an adequate discharging plate or grid is correctly grounded. You can notice such things as contact springs in air conditioner filters, and check if present. Most serious air filters also need a special maintenance, and a simple filter change is not sufficient. It's also difficult to find a sustainable system that mix high performance and cheap engine and filters. The sole fact that you loose a great amount of initial air flux with these "bad" filters also means both are not correctly calculated, as you must keep a minimal cfm flux to be efficient! A bad filter lot or a change in the supply policy of a company is always a bad sign. The way these are treating the problem is also indicative of a failed business plan: sounds no good if they face a boycott! The ideal is to find something integrating generic industrial filters... Or at least some alternate solution like car air venting filters (cheap and made by specialists), or filters from other manufacturers you can modify! There's no risk of guarantee loss if your nose tells it works...
This is really interesting - I bought two BlueAir filters about two years ago and had no trouble with them, but about six months ago I bought new filters and they immediately started pumping out a stale sweaty smell. BlueAir has replaced the filters twice at their own expense but they still stink. They must have changed something because the filters I used to buy didn’t have this issue. Bummer. For what it’s worth to anyone reading this now, I’ve had terrible luck with their customer service via email but have had great luck with calling them.
I have been meaning to buy an air purifier for a long time as I don't have a cooking extractor fan and can't easily fit one. I always seem to come to the Blueair machines because they are well stocked locally. For some reason I just will not buy a 680i machine. Thank you for your review. I am tempted by much more expensive medical grade machines that are cheaper to run in the long term, with higher quality internals and better filtration. But as usual, after about 2 hours looking at specs for the 5th time, I'm just as confused as usual and will probably put it off.
Thanks so much for this video. Not am I only having this problem. But it’s actually dangerous. I’ve noticed bad tinnitus since getting this purifier, and other symptoms that have resided since I stopped using the air purifier.
I have a 201 with a smoke stop filter that has not gone sour YET. The filters look straight forward. Maybe the carbon filter can be cut away to get rid of the smell. Then maybe replace the hepa filter with a home made corrugation of hepa vacuum bags. The blueair filters are very expensive and Henry bags are not. It would be interesting to see if a vacuum bag solution was as effective.
I bought a 605 based on your recommendation and my own requirements. Bearing in mind I'm using the standard filters and not the activated carbon ones, it had a bit of a smell to it to begin with which I chalked up to manufacturing processes. It wasn't pleasant but it eventually went away. I'm glad I didn't spend the extra cash on the carbon filters! At present it seems the biggest problem is that I'm now a lot more sensitive to allergens when I go outside as just getting groceries yesterday was enough to really irritate my throat.
Thanks Fran for this info. Because of my COPD I am considering an air filtration system. With the way they responded to you, ( and the absence of ) this company is off the list.
I couldn't sort out the BlueAir story so excluded it in my search, ending up with an Austin Air. Impressive performance overall.
I've had problems before with mold or fungus growing on or in industrial activated carbon air filters. I do not know if this was caused by a contaminated filter or just the environment.
Every avenue I can imagine has been covered by others in the comments. I just want to say I'm pleased to see you looking and sounding much healthier and composed. Some recent videos were quite alarming for how laid low you were. You're cool, you're clever, and you're sweet. Please hang in there Also that was some impressive tongue action in the outtake! 😊
My first night using BAir 211 with reg filter I thought I might need the ER. Starting with intense sneezing right away and progressed to burning sensation in my lungs. I thought I might have COVID but no I did not. Immediately returned unit to Best Buy. Still coughing 48 hours later. I did smell something like electrical right from the start and was a bit concerned but decided to try it in my bedroom that first night. One review on Amazon thought it might be Ozone although company prides itself on educating public on the dangers of that. This product recommended by Good House Keeping and has won every award there is. Now I'm concerned if lungs are permanently injured. I am feeling better today than yesterday. I would love someone to take machine and filters apart and let us know what's going on. This machine is dangerous. PS I don't have respiratory issues. Thank you for this video.
It is 100% ozone. I pulled mine apart today and yuuup!! They've got an ionizer!
Seems like standard "big company" response. If the problem is a one-off, they (usually) have no problem taking care of it. But, if the problem is bigger, especially if it's potentially very expensive to fix, or doesn't have a fix, then they deny and ignore, and hope most people will give up before they have to pay anything out. Of course, now with social media, word gets out pretty quickly that they have a problem and sales should suffer because of it. One would hope they're working on a solution, even if in secret. BTW, have you confirmed the smell is coming from the filters themselves, and not something post-filter in the system that may be caused by the extra load on the blowers from the filters being more restrictive? Maybe something getting very hot and doing some outgassing of its own.
All of your premise for purchasing machines is the same feelings I have for I should say had. To me it seems like they have a masterful marketing strategy and campaign team what have you but doesn’t seem like the product is backing itself up in the long run
I have seen green algae growth on an activated carbon filter from a car! I don't know how or why but it was definitely there, I was considering the use of Automotive activated carbon filters for a DIY setup because they are inexpensive and available everywhere. Definitely much cheaper than what blue air are asking for! Shouldn't be too hard to make, just a box with a fan (could possibly use the thermo fan which is used to cool the radiator with a speed controller because those things can really move air around LoL) and lastly the filters!
If timber is used for the enclosure, you can paint it or give it a few coats of high gloss polyurethane to bring out the beautiful timber grain... You could probably even use the intake filter as a particle block just before the activated carbon filters.. they are also cheap and come in various sizes and shapes... And it would cost you less for the complete DIY setup than what you paid for just one filter!
One possibility is the filters have removed and are holding something like a mold inside the filter. As a test, place one of your filters in an oven say 150 to 275 degF for an hour. this should kill any plant growth or mold infestation. If the smell goes away, this could indicate the problem. Good luck!
Amazed that no one catches these issues during the design phase, - they were actually looking at ,- what? Just doing quality readings, and that's all that matters?
They started losing a ton of money, and just decided to cut losses.Maybe they learned something, but I wouldn't play guinea pig.
Back in the 80's I worked for General Air a well known filtration company in Darby Boro outside of South West Philadelphia. We serviced many large companies and facilities such as the Philadelphia Museum of Art. The HEPA style pleated filter with a carbon filter built in will reduce flow on any system due to the tighter air restriction. Activated carbon filters have been known to produce strange smells when new but this generally goes away, usually if an activated carbon filter is emitting a foul Oder continuously, it's a sign that it is in need of replacement.
Since your filters are rather new you may have a batch of bad activated carbon. You can remove the carbon in these filters and still use them as HEPA filters minus the carbon function. It's very hard to cheat on manufacturing a HEPA pleated filter, but very easy to cheat on the carbon portion. They could be using improperly treated carbon or even mixing used carbon with new. When preparing carbon filters they simply remove old carbon and replace with new, so it's possible something dodgy took place in the manufacturing.
The pessimistic view: maybe the corona from the high voltage is creating nitrogen oxides that react with the water collected by the hygroscopic charcoal to form nitric acid. After some weeks the charcoal nears saturation and some acid escapes into the air.
Hi Fran, my car has a HEPA filter and from time to time the air in the car would stink so much I'd have to open all the windows or risk upchucking. I eventually got a new filter - problem solved.
car filters are prone to bacteria from damp especially after using the air con.
Turning the heat up to max, using recirculate mode, and not being in the car sometimes solves it. The third instruction is important!
If you really need a quality unit, you probably need to buy an IQAir air cleaner. I have had a BlueAir unit in my bedroom for over 10 years, the only reason I would continue to own one would be because they are really quiet on lower speeds. I suspect that the number of air changes they advertise are when used at the high speeds, in this case it's probably as loud most other true hepa units
Blueair is now owned by Unilever, FWIW
Also, make sure that all plumbing vents are well sealed and that the plumbing vent to the roof is not blocked. That’s a classic. If sinks or toilets drain slowly or gargle a lot, that’s a good sign somethings wrong with the vent.
I've bought a Blueair 405 because of Dave. I'm using a huge amount of Isopropanol here and don't have this problem with my Smokestop-Filter yet.
I think unless it has a lot of activated charcoal, they will fill up very fast if your environment has a lot of VOCs or odors. The Austin Air ones you replaced these with have something like 12 lbs of activated carbon so that should last a long longer. The BlueAir sheet style activated carbon filters just don't cut it.
Which Austin Air filters would you recommend?
Austin Air is the filter that has been recommended to me. Have you done a review of it?
Was there ever any update on this?
I own a Blueair air purifier does not smell like fumes at all I’ve had it for A while it does a great job for me 🤷🏻♂️
I use activated carbon to filter laser cut PVC fumes, it works very well and filters out the muriatic acid produced in the process perfectly. The activated carbon will have a different odor profile with the time, however, it does not mean is producing acid or something of that sort. It will be interesting to see the usual composition of the air inside your lab to see if there is anything specific that is causing the problem, but it's not something activated carbon usually does.
I don't know if this will help I had the same situation with 2 activated carbon filters for my furnace that gave off a really sour smell the first time was the carbon filter was old is apparently it was old stock and because of that they activated carbon filter was used up just sitting around the second time it happened I had a furnace repair guy come out and it turned out my fan speed was not fast enough to push the air through the carbon filter I don't know if it'll help
I got some activated bamboo carbon fiber bean bags last year. Instructions are to place them in direct sunlight for a day or 2 once a month to reactivate them. Suggest you try that, what have you got to lose. If it works you'll be back in business.
Love your videos, keep it up.
Hope you get a reasonable response from BlueAir. The initial offer of replacement filter made them sound like a decent outfit, but between them ghosting you and other customer complaints, they sound like their either know and can't fix the issue, or just don't care.
Good luck.
Having a combination HEPA - activated charcoal filter doesn't seem such a great idea to me as one could last longer than the other.
I don't know about activated charcoal air filters but when used for water filtration if not replaced when spent they can dump everything they've collected.
In this case though I'm thinking it's a problem with the glue being used. Maybe just take the filter out and use the HEPA only for a while then try the combo filter again.
Activated carbon gets a sweet smell over time. Needs to be replaced frequently. You can buy your own activated carbon and make your own filters.
I was just about to buy 2 bluer machines and you talked me out of it LOL Customer service is a must for me! I really love the no ozone and I love the look but cannot afford no service. thank you so much:)
Do not worry about a messy lab, you should see my lab, spent half an hour looking for a bobbin of solder which was right in front of me, oh and to make matters worse the lab is also a temporary kitchen where I have to try to cook my food.
I'm probably wrong.
I'm completely guessing it's humidity and mold.
Curious if the problem clears up when used with a dehumidifier or in the winter.
Good luck, Fran.
Alternate versions of the FranLab shirt: “Fight the VxA” or “Fight the I-squared-R”! 😁 (Or even, “Fight the V-squared/R”)
The groove, she is back! Yeah!