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One Villainous Scene - "To Be Worthy" | RWBY Volume 8
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- Опубликовано: 10 авг 2021
- Volume 7 and 8 made Cinder one of my favorite RWBY characters. I analyze her arc from Volume 8 in this video essay. This is my entry for the "One Villainous Scene" event created by Nando v Movies.
Please check out the rest of the videos here: • One Villainous Scene
I do not own RWBY, which is the copyright of RoosterTeeth. I also do not own any clips from the other shows used in this video.
Others have pointed this out, but at the scene when Cinder is threatening Watts, they Emphasize her slippers, wich were based on the Madames. Showing that Cinders whole Persona is an attempt to emulate people like the Madame.
This is before Watts speech, afterwards, we finally get a glimpse underneath the mask, and we're shown who Cinder truly is, a Scared, sad little girl who's just desperate to not feel like this.
Very well said, I hadn’t picked up on the slippers bit!
@@meganintenbro thanks bud
to bad they ruined right after at the end of the volume
@@52leveler How?
@@erickamakeeaina1649 even though i can see the reasoning behind her betraying both wats and neo, that just show she just puts on a mask and its gona end up getting reckt by the power of friendship again, had she really mature she will had save neo and go back for wats
I’m personally really impressed with Christopher Sabat’s performance of this speech.
He did a really great job!
Yeah as much as I hate the guy, he did a pretty good job here
Imagine getting dunked on by *All Might.*
@@mrshadow4007 and vegeta too
Dude, It’s Chris Sabat, dislike of him as a person aside, it’s Chris Sabat
I'm just glad the British character got at least one "bloody" in
Right?! 😆
I'm not very good at literally analysis, but when Cinder showed legitimate sadness, I thought, "holy heck, there's still a person underneath all that hate."
That was very well put, I hadn't considered it exactly like that. It was a great moment of humanization for her.
Yeah you hear the rebuttal to the dichotomy between humans and monsters of something to the effect of humans being monsters as well but you never really see it like that.
holy heck, there's still a character underneath all that hate*
A very warped and broken person who sold her soul to the devil (Salem) just to gain power.
There always had been, I kept saying ever since I heard her mentor say that's all you'll ever do. What he should have done was give her hug and she never would have been a villain
Ah yes. The scene where Watts took in the power of the almighty Bully McGuire.
You’ll get your powers when you FIX THIS DAMN DOOR!
Watts is Bully McGuire apprentice
About the "checkmate":
Note that all Volume 8 episode titles are one word each, except for the finale, which is titled, "The Final Word".
And what is the final word of the volume? Cinder's "Checkmate". Thus revealing the true title of the finale.
Now about her not killing Ironwood. In chess, checkmate is achieved when the king is threatened and cannot prevent his own demise, and the game ends without the threatening piece actually killing the king.
One thing I love about this scene that I don't see anyone talk about is that Watts is partially wrong. During his speech he mentions two specific events where Cinder failed but what he gets wrong about them is the reason why she failed. He talks as if Winter and Penny were able to defeat Cinder but they didn't, the only reason she failed to gain the winter Maiden powers at that moment was that Fria still had some fight left in her and Ruby showed up during a key moment. As for Raven while it is true that Cinder lost that fight, the only reason there was even a fight was because of misinformation. In other words had Cinder known who the true Maiden was, Raven would have been killed before she ever got a chance to draw her sword.
So what does all this mean? Well consider Watts' role at the audience surrogate, it's no lie that we along with him had a pretty low opinion of Cinder at this point, we underestimated her and she took us all by surprise because we just like Watts foolishly assumed that we've seen all she has to offer. Mark my words, her rise to power has only begun.
This is a really cool viewpoint as well! I hadn't considered that he partly underrated her just like the audience has! That's super cool.
Still that’s because Watts doesn’t know the full story. The last time they met was when Cinder made a deal with Raven
@@BlueBlazeKing You're absolutely right, the man is all too willing to assume the absolute worst about Cinder despite not actually being there. He is completely underestimating her, you just need to listen to his opinion about Beacon to know what he really thinks of her.
@@artisticcannibalism1350 I disagree with you, Cinder let her emotional side cloud her judgments, that's why Winter able to land hit on her grim arm twice, Penny was interrupting her and Cinder underestimated Fria there. If she's smart, she would've one shot like she did with Amber in Beacon. Her reckless and aggressive behaviour prevent her from thinking rational and logically.
Edit : She did great job in beacon, also in haven but the target was different person, in Atlas she gloating like an idiot instead of going for kill.
@@kingraplhmativo5178 Cinder absolutely shouldn't have gloated, but let's keep in mind that the target was a woman who already had one foot in the grave.
A wonderful analysis. It's rare to see positivity for RWBY on youtube, this is a breath of fresh air.
Thank you for the kind words! I should have another rwby video up sometime this week!
Positivity towards Cinder is even rarer
Yes! So refreshing to the people who do still care. I hope to see more analyses like these without any hate or trash-talk ^_^
considering that rooster teeth fucked over rwby by throwing away all the progress it made and by literally throwing monty's notes
@@icicle_ai where’s your proof? Show me evidence of them not following “Monty’s vision”. If you have no evidence, stop spewing lies because you don’t like the direction of the series.
As far as I’m aware, Monty didn’t have a “vision” for the series, he even admitted he couldn’t write it by himself that’s why he got Miles and Kerry to help. They’ve been working with him since the beginning, they were friends as well.
I love how absolutely *right* watts is about cinder, but I love even more just how hypocritical it is of him. The only difference between them is that Watts served his role as a villain better by enacting his plans *first* and pursuing his personal petty revenge *after.* He only fights with Ironwood and gets angry at him when he's forced to do so, and by then he's achieved his main goal. But ultimately he's no better a person than the one he's critiquing.
But then again, I love it even more because he almost certainly doesn't give a shit. Why should he? He's been better at his job than Cinder for a long time and he's a single drop away from death. So what if he's no better as a person? At least he gets to rant about how much of a failure Cinder has been. He's just that petty and dramatic and its great.
Best of all: Cinder learned a lesson in villainy, but she learned the *wrong* one. She's getting a W on the level of the fall of Beacon, but she's leaving herself vulnerable and not thinking about the end goal. She removed Neo for threatening her and Watts for the same, but with Emerald going turncoat and Mercury no longer under her command, she has no more allies. Cinder has won, but she's completely alone now. Salem smirks when Cinder mentions using the staff to "add to the fires in atlas." She didn't hear anything about Watts and he isn't showing up. Salem definitely understands the reality of Watts and Neo's fates but just doesn't care. Cinder secured both relics and "killed" all of team RWBY. So what if she didn't get the winter maiden powers? They have the staff. So what if the lamps last question is used? They have it and Salem is eternal if needs be.
Salem has won as much as Cinder, but she still has Tyrian to command, who will follow her into death itself. Cinder has nothing. What will her fate be when the maiden powers become not only redundant to Salem's goals, but even moderately dangerous to her without their main purpose? What will she do when she's lost her purpose and has no allies in her corner willing to stand by her when the time *inevitably* comes for Cinder to face death?
She's won and grown as villain, but she hasn't grown in the right way. She's got herself favor, glory and victory in the short term, but she's dooming herself in the long-term.
I really, really hope this all blows up in her face.
Another is Cinder does not realize she sealed her fate by allowing Grimm to be grafted onto her. Grimm is slowly taking over her body. I wonder when she realizes she is about to become a Grim Hound for her hubris.
Remember Salem can't use the lamp anymore because of cinder using the last question and without that she can't locate the other remaining relics or use the staff of creation because the staff can't create life only a soulless copy and the thing you want to create has to have blueprints to work while cinder won one battle she weakened the war with Salem because of her actions
@@christianthrasher8677 As the person said, Salem is eternal. The lamp isn't permanently used up, it is simply at a rest for a century. Something that is hardly an issue to a being who will live forever, even if she hates that. She's spent likely thousands of years alive, what is a century to have her questions answered and end the world like she has wanted to? Especially at the massive progress she has made in that goal by getting the staff, along with the destruction of Atlas, a place that was at risk of becoming an impenetrable fortress to her. No place on Remnant is out of her reach now, which means that, to her at least, her victory is simply a matter of time.
I’m so glad you talked about this, because while Watts’ roast to Cinder was amazing and while people are upset that Salem got sidelined near the volume’s later end, I feel like a lot of fans are not taking into account the overall theme of this volume and how it makes sense that Cinder reigned supreme in the end. This was HER volume, she literally has the first scene (which sets up her arc nicely) and the last line. Cinder scrubbing the floors but then getting checkmate against Ironwood shows the message that ANYONE, even those from nothing backgrounds, have the power to become great things. Except Cinder didn’t become a huntsman that would aid humanity, she became a villain that would work for her own desires. Cinder was a nothing pawn that became a Queen piece by the end of the volume.
Salem may be the big bad, but Cinder is the main antagonist. As team RWBY grows and become stronger, so will Cinder. She’s the villainous mirror to them. Salem’s battle may be the one to end the show, but Cinder’s battle will be the one to test team RWBY and everything they learned.
This was a wonderful comment and I loved all that you said! I also agree that Cinder is like a mirror to Team RWBY. RWBY all deal with Trauma that stems from some sort of neglect- be it Parental or Societal. Cinder feels both of those kinds of neglect for sure.
See, the thing about that is, they didn't NEED to bring Salem here. She did not need to be in this volume that is Cinder focused. Yeah, the volume achieved its goal of building cinder up, but if to build up one villain you have to knock down another, arguably more important, villain, then it's still bad writing because there were dozens of different ways they could've built Cinder up.
@@kylecyrus9457 I don't really think they knocked Salem down all that much. It took Ozpin's one-time nuke (He likely won't have enough time to store power to that level again during the run of the show) to take her out of the equation for just a few episodes. Having Salem in the Volume was important because it showed us how Cinder's relationship with her is so similar to Cinder's relationship with her stepmother.
@@meganintenbro It's not the defeat that knocked her down, it was her management skills that knocked her down. Two of her people defected, one is undermining her in secret, her smartest guy got killed by the one undermining her, her most competent servant got killed retardedly because she sent him to the place with the one person who has eyes that instantly beat him, the lamp slipped out from right under her nose, and majority of the people in atlas/mantle get away, and yes, that she got blown away by Ozpin's pocket nuke, not because it killed her but rather because she should know what his semblance is and taken better precautions against it. She came into the volume with a large advantage over the opposition but suffered massive losses for no good reason. Even if those losses don't really affect her and she doesn't care, it's still very sloppy leadership, which is what the show has been building her threat factor around. We can very easily assume that Salem is extremely powerful, but what the show has been using to show her menace is her interactions with her crew. The way she always seems to be in their head, how she pushes and pulls at their motivations to get them to move as she wishes, how she acts almost motherly at times, the way she talks about dividing her enemies rather than stomping them out, it all sends a message. It conveys that she, despite having great power, is someone who ultimately depends on her brains and personality to eat, yet, seeing her incompetence in handling her resources this volume shatters that image. She might still be the most powerful threat the heroes will ever face just based on her raw strength and immortality, but I'll personally never be able to really buy that she's at all competent every again, and that downgrades her quite a bit in my books. Before she felt like Mom from the promised neverland, smart, strong, manipulative, and intimidating as all hell, now she feels more like Kayaba Akihiko from Sao, dumber than they think they are and not that impressive once their God hacks are turned off.
@@kylecyrus9457 I think the biggest problem here is how much the show tries to paint Salem as this big threat in remnant, yet every time they get the chance they make cinder the final boss. They can’t have their cake and eat it. They wrote themselves in a corner too cause Salem’s too important now, so they can’t just get rid of her for cinder.
Ah, cool to see a RWBY one. I love Watts.
Same, he was a great character!
@@meganintenbro w a s
@@meganintenbro that Was hit hard man
@@meganintenbroWatts is dead?! WTF?!
it's always good to see someone else who realizes that Cinder was the deuteragonist of V8. It is to such an extent that her leitmotif is even present in V8's opening.
All of your reasons are listed out wonderfully and you are exactly right. Cinder learns to be a better villain, a more evil, manipulative lady than before. It's clear in V1-3 she was "playing the part" of what she thought an evil conniving villain would be, V4-5 showed us a more bullying type of personality, someone who relished too much in the previous destruction they had caused and played too much with her food. V6-7 showed her getting back on her feet and using some legitimately clever circumstantial tactics to break Ironwood and her constant presence throughout V8 allowed the audience to better understand her and made the volume's ending worth it.
The only question to answer now is why Cinder wanted revenge against Ironwood particularly? Did she blame him for her early lot in life? Did she blame Atlas itself, thereby getting rid of the man at the top would satisfy that hunger?
Thanks for watching, I really liked your breakdown of her arc across the volumes as well! It is interesting to think about what was Cinder's beef was with ironwood. Was it a general distaste for the Atlus elite? Maybe just because it was her job? I didn't think it was revenge, but more like just that he was on her list of people to intimidate.
@@meganintenbro It was probably also a strategy. Think about it, Ironwood is very vulnerable, especially after the Fall of Beacon, and ESPECIALLY during V8. We see as the volumes pass as Ironwood becomes even more paranoid, and in the recent ones, more unstable. Why do you think Watts freed Ironwood? To take advantage of his instability, of course! His recklessness, while understandable(not saying it's justifiable), helped the antagonists a LOT. And they noticed. Just a single, little, chess piece, was enough to send him into an extreme state of fear and paranoia. One that had symbolism, and meaning to him and the antagonists. But in the end, it wasn't much. Cinder could've very well remained quiet and kept herself discreet. But she didn't, because intimidating and scaring Ironwood was more advantageous. He fell right into the villain's hands, and it's kind of tragic. I love the characters the past two seasons.
I think maybe Cinder takes pleasure from sending Ironwood into a fit of paranoia. I mean, as said before fucking over the guy at the top was probably satisfying for her, because she could hurt her symbol of Atlas elite, who ruined her from the beginning. Even if Ironwood doesn't seem to be directly involved, he's a symbol. Remember her speech to Winter? Yeah. Damn, RWBY is good with foreshadowing.
To add to your points, I remember reading an analysis on Cinder that mentioned her view on destiny. Because she had gone through the suffering, her skewed view on destiny lead her to believe that her suffering will be compensated with great power or other means of great reward; only for that view to be shattered by Watts' points being "suffering isn't enough" and "you can't just be deserving, you have to be worthy". After the reality check, Cinder realises that not only has she been failing her job as the villain, but also that her suffering was really for nothing, and even if it would have lead her to something greater, she wouldn't have been worthy of it.
Though I personally been critical of RWBY for how it's told it's story this scene is very good. The one detail I enjoyed is how Watt's processes through Cinder's Threat: First attempting to talk her down as though he isn't intimidated, he is trying to save his life. But seeing that Cinder would be so focused in her own obsession, and was ready to kill him, he decided "Well if I'm going to die, at least going to vent my frustrations"
It was a clip of this scene that made me watch RWBY in the first place. So glad to see somebody analyzing it.
I hope I did it justice!
My favorite villainous scene in RWBY has to be in v7 ch11. Salem presenting herself through the seer grim and announcing that all the heroes efforts so far was meaningless, she was on her way and everyone knows she can’t be stopped. And then when our main heroine Ruby takes a stand to defy her Salem completely unravels her positive outlook just by mentioning her mother Summer. As amazing as all with Salem is it’s purpose is set up the real antagonist of v7 and v8, General Ironwood, my personal favorite character in the show. The ending scene of v7 ch11 is one of the best in a show I’ve ever seen. Ironwood choosing to abandon Mantle to save Atlas seems cruel yet also the rationally smart thing to do, I remember how divided the fandom was about it, there were threads of arguments back and forth all over the place about who was right and who was wrong. Ironwood never was an evil villain like Salem or Cinder but he was definitely an antagonist, staying so focused on preserving Atlas that he was willing to sacrifice anything and everything to ensure it’s safety. And while trying to save Atlas, the forefront of military/technological/dust innovations and development, not to mention the maiden power and relic of creation, is certainly a worthy cause at what point does it stop mattering when you’re willing to sacrifice every other life around you to achieve your goal. Is it really a victory if you’re the only one able to relish in it? I love Ironwood’s character in v7-v8, he had been set up so perfectly as the paranoid untrusting general who finally opened up only to have his worst nightmare come true proving him right in his mind and setting him along his narrow focused path towards the inevitable demise that happens when you sacrifice anyone and have faith in no one
This was a wonderful comment, I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on your favorite villainous RWBY scene, and on Ironwood!
I like to call this scene “Cinder gets burned”. Anyway, subscribed for the rare RWBY positivity!!
Haha, that works well! And thank you, I'll definitely be covering RWBY again sometime in the future. My next couple of videos will likely focus on different topics, but I love this show too much for this to be the last I talk of it.
If there could be one serious swear word in all of RWBY, I would want it to be, "all you have ever been, is a FUCKING MIGRAINE!"
Nah, Watts swearing would felt completely OOC
I think it was a great scene just because Cinder finally had to admit that shattering realization to herself because she couldn't deny it anymore. All the mistakes, misjudgements, overestimations she'd made in the course of trying to fulfill her ambitions kept screwing up not just her own plans, but those of the individuals she essentially wanted recognition from, wanted respect from. And recognizing that kind of broke her. She couldn't bluster past it with anger and power, because it was Truth. As hard to take as it was, she couldn't deny it anymore.
For a few moments, I felt sorry for her as she sat down on that rooftop like a sad, scared little girl. Cuz in a way, that's what she was at heart, and what she was always trying to get away from.
Watts' call-out to Cinder was glorious, but at the same time *very* ironic & overall pretty hypocritical of his part. For those who don't know, the reason he became an antagonist is because Ironwood chose Pietro as his main scientist & picked his project over Watts'
Edit: Another factor. Watts calls out Cinder for being self-entitled, but before Watts became a baddie, he had EVERYONE a person could want. He was an Atlesian Noble, one of the greatest scientific geniuses on the planet. He was lucky the moment he was born due to how much being born in Atlas benefits a person... But the moment Ironwood choose Pietro's PENNY Project due to being something more impressive, Watts throws ALL of that away purely out of pettiness because he wasn't chosen as the best by Jimmy... Watts is the *embodiment* of self-entitlement
Unfortunately, most people don't see the scene in the ways i describe & moreso see it as *"Someone finally put Cinder in her place"* due to how hated of a character Cinder was by the fanbase... Mainly out of mysoginy, to be honest
Indeed. He's even more privileged. And Cinder regressed. She took the wrong lesson and she'll fall even harder
@@ryanmoore6259 Yup
So basically Watts is Dr. Wily (only better) and Pietro is Dr. Light.
@@LunaP1 No, Wily is better than Watts in more ways than one. Wily's responsible for the Maverick wars later in the X series since *he* created the Maverick Virus, as well as Zero, who'd prove to become the most busted Reploid in existence... Watts never made anything like that, he's more of a hacker than a creator
okay first of all, literally yesterday i was watching vids on this "one villainous scene" and literally thought 'someone really should mention rwby bc it got great villains and scenes of them', so finding this on my feed was a gift. and v8!! someone who still talks positive things in v8!! really, thank you, i'm truly happy to see that
and your analysis was amazing. you lined up the whole final sequence with this moment and i havent realized yet how connected they are. her arc in this volume was really one of the best points of it, and seeing it in big picture like this (in contrast with the small portions scattered through the episodes) makes it clear.
also, kinda unrelated, but i really loved the way you talked about penny's choice and how it was the only loss for cinder since it came from something she'd never understand. i shed some tears at it (penny is my fave character, so.... yeah you can imagine how the finale made me feel)
Thank you for the wonderful comment! It made my day. I'm glad you really enjoyed this video. I really enjoyed Penny's scenes in Volumes 7-8. And I'm really glad you liked the way I compared her arc with Cinders! I didn't have that part in the original script for this video, but once I realized the connection, I had to include it!
I am not going to lie, Watts speech was the moment I connected that the VA was also the VA for Vegeta
Hold the fuck up
@@plgrn8r683 in my defense, I have never really watched a lot of Dragon Ball beyond Abridged and some highlights on RUclips
This is fantastic! We need more people talking about the cool things in RWBY, even if it’s only a scene.
Thanks for the kind words :) I'll definitely be talking about more RWBY in the future!
Ah yes, the scene fans and critics alike got up and applauded for. A good Cinder scene that shows some real character, and a wonderfully cathartic blow-up roast from Watts that everybody just reveled in.
A bit late to this, but I love this analysis. Cinder is my favorite RWBY villain and one of my favorite RWBY characters, only beat by Yang and Weiss.
It’s pretty interesting to see a villain not only get character development but also a character arc. Usually that means it’ll lead to a redemption arc or a last ditch heroic sacrifice (like Hazel). But they chose to make her a better villain. It make me more invested in the character as a whole as they can take her in any direction they want, at least in my opinion.
Though as a Cinder fan, I do hope she has something good happen to her. It doesn’t have to be redemption, but get that damn Grimm arm off of her.
I'm glad you enjoyed this video! I also really like Cinder's character, I'm very invested in her story after V8 as well. I can't wait to see where they take her in the future.
I am thinking about Cinder using The Crown of Choice and I am not spoiling what the relic does.
This scene kind of reminds of the interrogation scene in Batman Dark knight.
Batman couldn't intimidate The Joker with threats or pain.
Amazing analysis! And I complete agree with everything you said about Cinder and Watts here! For Cinder it wasn't about becoming a better person or realize that she sucks, but it was about her becoming worthy. Honestly I love Cinder's character and how depht Volume 8 decided to give her. Considering her devastating win in the finale, it makes me really curious of her story will continue in the future. Especially now that Team RWBY is gone, the morals of our other heroes are heavily weakend, while Cinder's were only strenghend by that lost. Excited for her return in Volume 9/10.
Thanks for watching the video! I also agree with everything you just said, the depth Cinder got as a villain in Volume 8 was so well done!
Wow. This adds more light to things. Gives more depth. It was clear she was gonna remove Neo and Watts. Especially the latter as he would counter what Cinder told Salem. This volume was Cinders'. She got a massive high horse after Beacon and thought she was all she needs to get what she wants. That's not the case.
Here's hoping Rooster Teeth don't dropped the ball moving forward.
😬 *coughs*
As far as the post-monty seasons go, this is my second favorite volume after V4 and this scene helps with that
You brought up a lot of good points when it comes to Cinders role in the story, not to mention the chess theme they were playing around Ironwood that I haven't realized after watching this video.
This was one of the best monologues of all time. Tears in the rain who?
Fantastic work tying all of this together, this was awesome!
Thanks for all the kind words!
I'm *completely* agree with you here. While Cinder isn't my favorite character (but in top-5 kinda), I still consider her as the most interesting one for me - her look, her role, her fights, motives, past and future... And indeed it was a great scene on the roof for both her and Watts... BUT - " this scene made her grow as a villain, but she did not grow as a human being" - absolutely... While I have always liked her as a character, she's still a complete monster as a person. Before V8 finale I was still hoping that she would become a neutral side, a third side in the show, with her own clique, like it was back in V2-3... But nope, doesn't looks like. Villains like that never end well...
With that ALL my favs in the show are gone. Hazel is out, Ironwood.., oh god, I'm so disappointed with his destiny, he deserves much better... And my precious Emerald "died" in this volume as well, with her "side changing". And if Cinder is also wouldn't be an interesting and complicated villain, then I have nothing to do here...
But a good video, yeah :)
thank you!
Ironwood NOOOOOOOOOOOO
at least we get to make jokes now about him coming back as Atlas
(sorry, had to make a Bioshock joke)
Okay this is hard to explain but I’ll try. This is moment Cinder went from remembering her past to learning from it. She had turned into Madame. Constantly threatening and berating people to get what she wanted. When Watts was telling her off, she started realizing that she is failing. She then thought back to her past on how she beat Madame. She didn’t win by being defiant, belittling, or lashing out. She did it by being patient and using people to give her what she wanted. How did she do that? Give those people what they want. For Madame is was an obedient girl she could torment. For Rhodes it was a sympathetic, helpless, and vulnerable daughter-like figure he would train. Once she gotten what she wanted, the death of Madame and her daughters, she realized Rhodes was now no longer useful and had to be eliminated. This is exactly what Cinder goes back to doing. Gives Watts and Neo what they wanted (Ruby and access to Atlas’ computers) which happened to help her, and once the she got what she wanted (RWBY dead, the lamp, the staff, and Atlas destroyed) she didn’t need Watts and Neo so she eliminated them. This is the difference between knowing your past and learning from it and it was this wake up call that did it her.
So all she needs to do now is get rid of her new Madame, Salem. I wonder if CRWBY has always planned Cinder to be the final villain of the story. It would be fitting since she has been in the story since day one.
You make it sound like Cinder didn't have any emotional connection to Rhodes, but I don't think that's true. She showed cleared signs of sadness when he was about to fight her, and after she killed him.
Careful Watt, you're Vegeta is showing.
I really enjoyed this analysis. I wish I could be as succinct and yet so thorough. Excellent work!
Thank you :)
Still can't believe they murked Watts.
I absolutely loved watts in this scene too, it's a shame that they killed him off in such an impersonal way, I loved watts as a villain in the atlas arc
He was honestly the only villain that was worth a damn and was actually good at his job.
Very well done! Love that Scene.
Thanks for watching!
Fully agree
Nice analysis! You broke down this scene really well, and it's one part of why Volume 8 is really a masterclass in villainous character development imo. I was so excited to see RWBY in the One Villainous Scene playlist, and you delivered!
I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the video!
Great video
It's so awesome to see someone saying good things about RWBY. Thank you for this!
You're welcome! I'd love to make more RWBY video Essays, but I'm currently working on a couple of Game Development Projects. If I'm lucky, I'll hopefully have another RWBY video essay up before Volume 9
Thanks for giving me a new appreciation for this scene, I had a pretty negative view on this volume but it makes slightly more sense now.
I’m glad my video was able to give you a new appreciation for the scene! Always so glad to see comments like this.
It’s an analysis like this that can change a lot on a person’s opinion of another. I knew Cinder was becoming a better villain thanks to Watts’ speech, but it really hits home here on how much she grew as a villain.
Thank you for this analysis. It actually makes me appreciate Cinder as a villain now, and in this community, that’s an accomplishment. Well done. 👏🏻
Thanks for the kind words, I’m glad you enjoyed the analysis!
Brilliant insight
Finally someone gets this scene.
Realmente escuchar a alguien que hable bien de RWBY es realmente un buen respiro para la comunidad, espero que sigas analizando de esta manera mi amigo ;)
Gracias!!
She had a change in brute force to thinking, now she needs the massive needs a change of heart
Season 7 and the latter half of season 8 are bringing RWBYs quality back up to its season 3 glory. I hope they can keep up with this roll they’ve put themselves on.
great job
Thank you!
just love when the nerd character outclasses th ebrute. i mean he jsut didnt give a shit at tha tmoment jsut chewing herout
This scene is amazing because the fans have been shitting on Cinders habit of screwing herself and her faction over out of short sighted power lust for a few seasons now and here we see the writers taking advantage of that to make her a much better more fleshed out and competent character.
My thoughts exactly! It all seems very purposeful and was well executed.
How to redem a villain who's been completely shit on the writers room for 5 seasons?
Have another villian humble them so hard they have to get good.
Awesome
It’s really sad Watts ends up dying because of this, at least he was one of the few to point how much of a fuck up Cinder truly is.
I wonder if this Villainous Scene thing will be giving us more gems throughout the year?
I am eager to find more!
i love this scene
Me too!
This isn’t a RWBY villainous scene but I haven’t seen anyone talk about it and I feel compelled to do so
MHA season 5: League of Villains vs Meta Liberation Army: Twice goes plus ultra
I’m the scene in question Twice, the resident Deadpool of the LOV, is carrying the unconscious body of his fellow teammate Himiko Toga as he is being chased down by clones of himself created by the MLA in order to make him join them.
In the past, Twice used his quirk “double” to create copies of himself to serve as servant to him but they rebelled and fought one another leaving twice with a damaged psyche and him going insane if he was the real deal or not. As a result he refuses to make clones of himself and is afraid to take damage(the max one of his clones can take is a broken limb before turning to goo)
Back to the scene Twice is being held down by the dark clones as two of them begin to twist Toga’s neck. Just as they are about to snap her neck, one of the evil twice’s breaks his arm, causing twice to have and epiphany that he is the REAL twice and begins making thousands upon thousands of copies himself in a move called “Sad Man’s Parade”
I think this scene, as well as Toga’s quirk evolving earlier in the story and the scene during Tomura Shigaraki’s fight with Redestro, are some of the most powerful scenes for the villains thus far in the anime as they allow the viewer to see what caused these villains to be villains and that they were just like us, just people who were put into unfortunate situations.
Not to mention that whilst the LOV got some sweet upgrades to their quirks, twice learned how TO USE his quirk to its fullest potential.
In my opinion, the majority of the MHA villain cast can be summed up in one quote(more or less)
“Don’t judge my story by the chapter you walked in on”.
This was definitely a good vid
But here's a thing, you may or may not of thought about.
Back in vol 1. (Or at least, i believed that when it was said.)
Anyway, back then Blake mentioned how the real world isn't like a fairy tail. And that one particular character in one of those stories doesn't get a happy ending.
The monster.
While it could've been referencing adam. But it could also be referencing cinder. Due to what she is becoming with each new volume.
She's literally becoming one. And considering, the way her character is heading.
She'll become a literal monster before she finally dies.
Thank you for the compliment, and I hadn’t considered that Blake line in relation to cinder! Well said
Do you plan on doing more analysis videos like this? This video was quite enjoyable.
I’m glad you enjoyed the video! I have a few more analysis videos on my channel currently, and I’m aiming to have another one out by the end of the year.
that was really something else....
Yes, yes and yes! I agree. This is how I saw it too
Excellent analysis! It remains to be seen whether or not Cinder will continue to take Watts' lesson to heart, or whether her taste of victory will simply reinforce her old bad habits. Certainly she'll need to step up her game before taking on a trained warrior and tactician like Winter Schnee. As for Arthur Watts, I know it's unlikely but I really do hope he finds a way to survive the fall of Atlas. He's far too clever a character, and far too brilliantly played by Christopher Sabat, for this to be the end.
Don't worry. Penny will be come back to life again again again after they raid the Duracell factory.
Sure but it will be the Rei Ayanami problem. It won’t be the same Penny that we have been with so far, and the fear of losing her again will alienate the cast from her.
I was not expecting a RWBY here
I hope it was a pleasant surprise!
@@meganintenbro it's definitely one of the better scenes from the show. They were in rare form
Absolutely love this scene. I may vehemently dislike Sabat as a person, but DAMN he was amazing as Watts. RIP Watts.
I got a series for you once upon a time do you think you can do rumpelstiltskin and what want wrong with him god he's a monster he's almost like cinder love you video mate keep up the good and great work
This was the best scene in the last four seasons bar none and then they (seemingly) kill him
Are you upset they KILL watts
That whole scene was so cathartic and her tears were tasty.😈
How the heck do they write Villain confrontations better than the hero ones. I love RWBY and I'm loyal enough to keep watching but man I wish all scenes were like this.
I noticed that Watt's bruse disappeared for a moment
I don’t believe it did? At what time stamp?
4:12
Hitler's Generals when he invaded Russia:
As much as I hate what the writers did with Volume 8, this is one of the few truly great scenes, and I'm really happy to see that it got featured. Watts chews the scenery like no one else, and just that moment of "what have I been doing with my life" from Cinder is truly gratifying.
Given RWBY's tendencies, however, this volume is the start of setting up a redemption arc for Cinder, so it's kinda ironic that his speech inspires her to be a better villain.
You should check out RWBY vol.3 Torchwick's death. What I find so interesting is how he explains how the real world works.
This is definitely the best scenes to come out of this volume of RWBY despite the show's questionable writing in my opinion.
What I liked about this volume is each episode has one word titles, except for the last episode, as the title is "The final word" and what is the last word spoken not only in this chapter, but in the volume and the last word Ironwood hears? "Checkmate"
This was legit the best part of this volume.
I won't lie but I've been really disappointed with the show, but I still watch to this day because I loved what it used to be and thus I have to see it through to the end.
But even I will admit that rwby is one of those shows that for the most part does do some things extremely wrong but when it gets it right it gets it really right.
Like the reveal of Salem's past is one of my favorite episodes ever in this honestly just a testament to how good the show could be, this scene is another example and that's how kind of I've always felt about Rwby past the first three volumes, it's decent if not bad most of the time but with some amazing moments spread throughout
Speaking of Queen chess pieces,
What if Glynda Goodwitch was Summer Maiden? Given by Ozpin? Salem has her black Queen as Cinder the Fall Maiden, so Ozpin also has white Queen as Glynda the summer maiden? This help Ozpin to diverting and trolling Salem's plan, without Maiden can't open the vault. So, keeping Summer Maiden in different location would be smart move from chess player like Ozpin. Imagine if Glynda was fully realised Maiden guarding relic of choice, fights Cinder or Salem the wicked witch of the west, wizard of Oz reference. 🙆🙆
Edit : I assume her grim arm will crawling throughout her neck and possibly left eye.
Cinder: OK boomer
Volume 8 and especially this scene made me not hate Cinder anymore
V8 hate make me change my mind, she's not to be hated, she's a mentally challenged child
To be fair, I love Cinder in a lot of ways. The biggest peeve I have is Watts' actions are actually counter productive to Salem's goals and would loved to have had Cinder point it out. That fact being, part of Salem's plan is ultimately to have Cinder possess all the maiden powers, that IS an objective of Salem.
So by Watts programming Penny to self destruct that power could become infinitely harder to collect if it randomly goes to someone else, or worse yet could very possibly (considering they are well aware of Penny's relationship to team rwby) that the power could easily be put in the hands of a silver eyed warrior.
Honestly the sad realization Cinder has was ok, but if she had instead brought him in close, pointed out all the things I just did then flung him behind her across the roof, Then she could have walked to the corner and brooded on Watts' points that he made while also returning some of her femme fatal aura that made her so damn popular as a villain in vol 1-3.
Actually no, while it would be helpful to get her the maiden powers in order to open the vaults, Salem's plans do not require Cinder to get any of the maiden powers. As long as the vault is opened and she gets the relic, it really doesn't matter who does it. That's why Watts specifically answers with "I don't work for you." when she was enraged about the maiden powers.
The promising her the maiden powers is how she gets Cinder to do what she wants, and if she happens to succeed like with the fall maiden powers, well then she gets a willing key, if she fails it really doesn't matter. Hell she left Cinder to fend for herself after the fight with Raven completely unconcerned.
Cinder getting bitched at was amazing
Seeing her get screwed over will always be satisfying.
I always thought of cinder as a Saturday morning cartoon villain who squandered her potential. I think it's really cool for a villain to have a character ark/ come to terms with how much of a f*ck up they are. However, cinder is a spycopath and headstrong so it's a bit odd seeing her losing composure in front of a defenseless know-it-all while in the middle of just about everything.
Cinder’s character in volumes 6-8 is something I seriously dislike about RWBY. This show has been one of my favorites consistently since I watched the trailers drop in high school. And Cinder has literally been in the show since episode one. It makes sense that after growing on their journey, cinder would appear weaker by comparison as the protagonist get stronger and a bigger badder antagonist would be necessary to continue the story development. I have no problem with any of that, but it doesn’t explain why a single loss to a legendary power would devolve her character from mastermind strategist to impulsive brute. She had most of her powers since before episode one, so her physical power hasn’t really changed all that much since season 3 but they writers have focused on her hunger for power to the point that it drowns out every other aspect of her character. Ever since season 5 all we see from cinder is an insatiable lust for power that drives her to act foolishly, but what even really sparked that lust? She didn’t have that level of addiction to power before season 3’s finale and hasn’t gotten enough power since then to cause that kind of shift. Don’t get me wrong, if you look past that one aspect of her character feeling a bit off the writing for her character is great but when you really think about this one key detail there’s suddenly an arbitrary shift in characterization that sticks out like a sore thumb…
In my opinion, what sparked her lust for power at the end of season 3 was the fact that she gained full maiden powers and so far their plan was going perfectly, she thought that she had everythig she deserved and, after killing Ozpin, no one (except Salem) would be powerful enough to abuse her anymore, but then this random child appears out of nowhere and is capable of beating her in one hit and leaving her with permanent damage, proving her once more that she is weak (not to mention that Watts probably mocked her for her defeat during her recovery, adding salt to the wound).
Then, when she starts to have everything under control again, she gets defeated once more by Raven. Her entire motivation is to be stronger than others so no one can look down on her anymore and every time she thinks she succeded, she's proven wrong. Basically, in my eyes, the lust for power was always there and as long she is in a position of power she is perfectly fine, but the momemt she starts to loose control over the situation, she doesn't have a way to deal with it and has a meltdown, which is something very common on people that feel like they don't have control over their lives.
Sorry if there is something that doesn't make sense in my comment btw, english isn't my first language and this was quite long.
@@Jane0023 I can see how that could be the case but in season 4 when watts is berating her for losing to a kid while she recovers, she doesn’t show any signs of a lust for power, it’s almost exclusively about revenge for her. She’s very calm (probably not by choice) the entire time she’s recovering so it would seem like that should be enough time for the spark at the end of season 3 to die down. And she starts to focus more on strategy in season 5 when she makes deals with raven, but they aren’t to the degree of strategizing from season 3. I can totally see there was a thirst for power since the start of the show but nothing really pointed to it being able to grow to this extreme so quickly. Based on her attitude in season 5 I’d say it’s more likely the spark for this change is losing the fight against Raven, except when she’s on her own in season 6 she’s very calm and collected while clawing her way back into Salem’s favor, negotiating with shady people and sneaking around. Sure she seems a little agitated on her quest for revenge but it’s not a quest for power or driving her insane. So her behavior in seasons 7 and 8 really feel unwarranted when she’s been through arguably worse and come out of those situations just fine for the most part… So in her case I don’t think it’s as similar to a predictable behavioral breakdown based on severe losses as a spontaneous and unexpected breakdown when you consider the seasons immediately following those losses and her behavior in response to them.
It kinda feels like they’re setting up a redemption arc / separation arc with how they’re handling her character and showing her backstory in a way that makes you sympathize with her past and her beginning to separate from Salem’s direct plan sometimes. Like she’s gradually shifting towards either becoming her own 3rd party or even so far as to be redeemed which I know would never happen if the writers remember anything from seasons 3-5…
Although I like the overall theme of whats provided here I feel like it failed on what happened after. For example Neo and Watts almost instantly trusting Cinder felt really weird. Watts just got dangled off a roof and knows how vindictive Cinder is but almost instantly trusts her, Neo has been getting screwed over by Cinder all these volumes only for her to finally come back to Cinder and distrustingly look at her but give her the only leverage she had against Cinder right back to her. I understand that she gave them what they wanted later but the villains have no way of knowing if she would actually pull through especially not Neo. It felt like they dumbed the villains down for Cinder to betray them, which doesn't sit right with me. If you have to dumb down your characters just to make a story beat happen then your writing poorly. Other than that I liked your view of the scene and the analysis, I always really loved this scene and the only thing that ever irked me is what they did with it.
Thanks for the kind words and I'm glad you enjoyed the video! I personally don't feel like they got dumbed down, and that their actions actually align with the theme of the volume- Trust is a risk.
I think Watts is arrogant enough to think once he's not being held over the building, his talk was enough to snap her out of her delusion and actually work with him. Cinder may be vindictive and a risk to trust, but I don't think Watts would pass up working with her when they're in such a time-sensitive scenario. Had he double-crossed her and lived, how pissed would Salem be if she woke up and saw that instead of working together, her last two subordinates bickered and let everything go halfway across the planet.
And for Neo, I just think she's so focused on her revenge that she is willing to "make a deal with the devil" to get it. Cinder may have been on a losing streak, but just her raw potential as a maiden with all that power is a big enough draw to team with Cinder imo. So yea, I don't really see it as poor writing, I see it as pretty in line with both characters. Not like Watts or Neo really had much time or resources to weigh their options or go with an alternative plan.
@@meganintenbro I can see your point on Watts but not Neo although thematically Neo trusting Cinder again would fit, it doesnt fit when looking at whats happened in the story so far. She's already been getting sidelined by Cinder and used for only Cinder's goals, Cinder has granted Neo nothing and Cinder herself has failed at completing any mission that's given to her. She already reluctantly agreed to team up with Cinder and Cinder didnt do anything for her so why would she do so again? If she's blinded by revenge then we need to see this because up until now all we have seen is Neo being the most competent villain in the series, she singlehandedly stole a relic. We have no reason to believe she would be blinded by revenge cause the creators dont communicate this so if this is the reason then I would still call it bad writing. Neo's goal is revenge but not once do we ever see it compromise her thinking. Also Neo had both the resources and options to go with an alternative plan. She stole the relic from Salem she could have lied to Salem and given it back to her said she stole it from emerald and if she wants brownie points tell her the code by saying she was spying on emerald, express that cinder up until this point hadn't been upholding her end of the deal and instead she wants to work with her directly so that she can accomplish her goal of killing ruby. Salem would for sure take Neo because of how broken Neo is as someone who could infiltrate basically any base with absolute ease and they both get what they want, while still fulfilling the goal of trust being a risk because Neo is choosing to put trust in Salem, and vice versa. Neo at this point had no reason to hand over the relic to cinder cause realistically if Cinder didnt need Neo she could have killed her after Neo handed the relic over. Neo's decision in every aspect seems to be driven by nothing but advancing the plot in my opinion.
@@cosmerodriguez571 I could understand where you were coming from at the beginning but I really don't see Neo taking that roundabout plan to get to Ruby. "Neo's goal is revenge but not once do we ever see it compromise her thinking." I would argue that Neo being this deep into a crew of Remnant's most wanted was not the smartest plan and certainly a lapse in her judgement. Neo's first instinct upon finding Cinder in V6 was also "Kill her" despite Cinder's Maidan powers making that pretty tough.
That said I also don't see Neo teaming with Salem vs teaming with Cinder. Neo just does not seem all that interested in Salem's plans at all, at least with Cinder they both have a common goal of killing Ruby. Sure, Cinder could have just betrayed Neo right after handing over the relic, but would Cinder have benefited from killing Neo there? No, Neo helped her fight RWBY+Penny and did some pretty big damage to their team. I see Neo as pretty impatient at this point and not willing to risk her chances at revenge on Salem agreeing with her little crusade against one huntress (Plus, Ruby has Silver Eyes, so its likely Salem wouldn't want to agree to helping kill her)
@@meganintenbro "I would argue that Neo being this deep into a crew of Remnant's most wanted was not the smartest plan and certainly a lapse in her judgement." Did you forget that Neo helped bring about the destruction of one of the 4 major academies in remnant in an attempt to steal the maidens powers and a relic? She isn't a stranger to the remnants most wanted list and is probably apart of it herself. Neo's first instinct was to kill Cinder because she also blamed her for Torchwicks death and there is no way of Neo knowing if CInder ever got the full maiden powers since she was on a separate part of the mission and never saw her get it. In fact we see evidence that she actually didn't know because once Cinder goes full power she stands down knowing she cant beat her and instead hears her out, this is Neo not letting vengeance blind her the exact opposite of what you are trying to prove.
Teaming with Salem would give her far more resources to use and although she doesn't share goals with Salem, Salems goals would almost inevitably lead to Ruby, we also see that Salem although she has her own goals is willing to satisfy the goals of the people who work for her especially if it helps further her goal. Killing Ruby who has constantly attempted to set her and her plans back (even managing to succeed at times) and also holds oscar who knows where one of the relics is would further Salems goals and Neo's goals so there is no reason for Neo to not work with Salem even if she isn't interested in Salems goals. Also even if Salem asks Neo not to kill her but instead bring her back to transform Ruby into a grimm monster this is a fate arguably worst than death and one could argue that Neo could possibly agree to this since she wants revenge, we have no way of knowing if just death is the only she will accept. I didn't say the Cinder killing Neo point as something Cinder would do but something she could do. The point is that Neo herself does not know this and considering Cinders pettiness to those who betray her Neo should 100% assume this especially with how Cinder has treated her while she was being an asset how would she treat one who just betrayed her? Neo doesn't know this and the consequences of this could be life ending so once again why would Neo ever trust Cinder again when she not only has alternatives but also has time and is never shown to have her reasoning clouded by her revenge
I'm really not a big fan of RWBY any more, but this scene of Watts and Cinder is one of the greatest villainy speeches ever...
Also, can we talk about how Ironwood closes one of his eyes as he aims down the sight of his revolver in the last scene? Something rookies do when taking aim?
Cinder broke him so much he lost his identity of a general, yeesh
Well well well, looks like I've been convinced to pick RWBY back up. Haven't seen it but it feels weird for her to have "killed" Watts and Neo when she's literally just gotten their loyalty doing the things you explained, and could've added to that by saving them, but I'm hoping I'll turn out to be wrong for some reason and it make sense for Cinder to kill them and not just be some impulsive act cos she didn't like them.
Watts entire usefulness was to mess around with Atlas tech which is no longer a concern and Neo going along with this doesn't mean Cinder had actually gotten her loyalty back. Regardless, she did tell a few lies to Salem and those are two people who could have exposed those lies. So it was tying up loose ends really.
I agreed with everything you said until you started to defend the Vol 8 finale
It was a good finale.
@@shadenox8164 did we watch the same finale? What Judgemental Critter’s videos on volume 8 because it starts really positive and then episode 12 happeneds
@@shadenox8164 NO ITS NOT
Watts is right. Cinder thinks she could solo at everything but she always fails. Because she’s so arrogant and over confident.
Cinders backstory was sort of lazily written. It never tells us why she is the way she is just that she has a sad backstory, which we could already have surmised.
I think it's clear in telling us that because she comes from a position of such powerlessness, she has a terrible lust for power that she isn't great at controlling.
@@meganintenbro Exactly, Cinder's life has been defined by people holding power over her and her only being able to gain freedom by gaining power of them, she outlines this to Madame as she kills her. Its an exceedingly toxic mentality, but entirely believable given her upbringing and its why she pursues the Maiden powers so doggedly, she is convinced that once she has them shelly truly be free. All while not realizing a new shock collar has been fastened to her shoulder.
@@vazak11 I totally agree with you, it's so believable thanks to her upbringing, and I don't think Cinder has the emotional maturity to recognize how toxic this mentality will be. She's playing with fire, it can very much be the end of her.
It tells us where Cinders whole mentality comes from
Rhodes basically taught her that the way to become free was to become Stronger.
It also shows Cinder emulating those she views as Strong, she styled her hair in her teen years after Rhodes. And in the present day she mimicks the Madame and Salem.
@@erickamakeeaina1649 nice catch!
I'm going to disagree with you, as the shift from the Watts breakdown to Cinder suddenly becoming super competent and getting her way is jarring and feels almost entirely Deus Ex Machina. Not only that but any buff she gets comes at the cost of the characterization and even humanization of other characters, especially Penny.
After seeing this scene I dropped RWBY cold turkey, and had to make the realization that they were trying to make the worst part of RWBY the biggest part... because every time Cinder appears on screen, she manages to ruin the story and get everyone around her to stop acting as they would/competently so they can push Cinder forward. They basically grab the "idiot ball" so she can shine.
Cinder's had since her reveal to do something, to be something, to make us care about her... and I don't care about her. The watts scene was great in that she finally cracked and started to be a human, I thought she might become this uniting force of a villainess, but no, she just does the same thing: Scream loudly and try to get revenge on everyone that looked at her the wrong way, and in the end she kills a bunch of characters that were interesting and made me care just, and she gets to have a hugo ego about it... which is why she keeps failing.
Yet for some reason, she got rewarded for it this time. Because it was her time to shine. So everyone stopped being themselves, went full moron, and she got her moment. Not because she outsmarted them. Not because she did better. No. Because the script demanded it, so everyone got dumber to accommodate the need for her scene.
By this Point Cinder, Is just the villian, no matter how much they want you to feel empathy for her or take her seriously but like Watts she Is just flat, and falls flat like the the rest of the show has been falling since Volume 5
honestly i hate cinder, watts just said the main points
The thing that I hate about your videos is that we never get to see the scene. Can't the analysis take place before or after the scene is played in its entirety? Aren't we allowed to feel the power of the scene uninterrupted? Can't you allow the audience enough credit or space to evaluate the scene on their own, then add your interpretation?
I like breaking down the points of the scene as they come along because I prefer to learn or analyze things in parts, which reflects in the content I make. I believe if the audience of the video wants to evaluate the scene on their own, they should seek out it in its original form. Also I run the risk of my videos not passing copyright checks if I leave scenes unaltered for too long.
The only good scene in rwby past volume 3