The Art of Supersaw: Why the Roland JP-8000 is the reference
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- Whether you like the sound or not: Understanding what Roland's engineers have done in the 1990s is interesting for every synthesizer user, mixing engineer or Trance & EDM-lover.
Because of bitwig.communi... I stumbled upon Adam Szabo's Bachelor Thesis.
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I just found your video, thank you for referencing my thesis about the Super Saw ;)
I remember that paper, for some weird reason... Probably because I've owned an 8080 since y2k. :) I also remember you. Probably because of your unpronounceable name. :)
I'm so happy that Roland implemented lot's of the JPs architecture in the V-Synth.
Yeah, on the V-synth you can have Supersaw on both oscillators and modulate the Supersaw in a way that you can´t on the JP8K. However the envelopes don´t behave the same....so as a true freak I have both :)
People always talk about the supersaw waveform but the real heart of that signature sound is hidden in the chorus+eq+delay section!
YES! And TBH I think I did not really point this out, that the fx-section is a real booster for the raw sound.
What sort of settings do you need to have to mimic it on software
I see the chorus, delay and EQ as the "topping" or booster as Marc said. If you would slap the JP8K FX on a Virus or a Nord or whatever, you would still not have THE sound. Rolands Supersaw just sounds the best still to this day. Google: "An Analysis of Roland’s Super Saw Oscillator and its
Relation to Pads within Trance Music"
@@jamesmurphy8676to achieve supersaw or that wet delay type of trance sound?
Yes, I bought my Nord Lead Virtual Analog is 1995, then my JP-8000 in 1997, a JP8080 in 1999. I also bought a Korg Prophecy and a Z1, great time to be buying synths and making music in that time.
Wow this is great to hear. I'm curious, why had you considered buying a 8080 next to the 8000? Why eg not a Virus?
@@MarcRenton Access Virus was not available at my Synth store at the time, Internet was not what it is today either. Back then I would hit up Pawn Shops all across the American Southwest for my Vintage Gear Fix, yes I have GAS ( Gear Acquisition Syndrome ). I did end up buying a Virus C through Ebay around 2005, I still have it in my collection.
@@SlainGecko Those days of mid to late 90s when you could actually find a cool deal at pawn shops was the best.
Nord was the first to coin the term "virtual analog" with the Nord Lead on 1995 and bring a fully digital synth with loads of controls on the panel, it really was a great thing because though the synth is digital, it feels more analog with the controls.
The JP-80x0 is really an amazing synth, the SuperSaw implementation is still the best ever IMO. Ive heard others argue the AN1X or the Virus sound better, but personally the JP8K is my fav and I own all the above.
I agree something with the phase and the way the filtering is done, add in the delay and chorus, cut some lows, push the highs in the eq and you have "that sound" is a marvel and I absolutely love it! My JP-8000 still works great, snagged an 8080 also a few years ago before prices started getting out of control Hope to keep these for life!
Yes, it still is the best. Roland just got it right from the start and still unsurpassed. I have Virus and AN1X and while sounding very good, you just can´t get THAT supersaw from them (or from anything else). Had to finally give up and fork out for a JP8K. Google: "An Analysis of Roland’s Super Saw Oscillator and its
Relation to Pads within Trance Music" and it will be explained why.
Such a wonderful synth. I fell in love with her back early 2000 but choose the MC505 Groovebox instead and I will always be happy that I did as I was much to young and impatient to truly understand what could be done with this beast.
The 505 teached me the basics and now, 20ish years later the JP8000 is just a mandatory part of my studio, it will never leave my studio again :)
Sadly she is showing her age and I am waiting for a pack of fresh condensators but once fixed I am sure it will sing again for many years to come!
It also goes hand in hand with the Yamaha AN1x.
Your Bitwig preset is amazing. I'd wanted to build something like this in Bitwig for ages, but had no idea where to start to be honest. Fantastic work!
Oh my god this video is incredible, I hope for you that this takes off!! :o
I lost my JP-8000 as a casuality of the great financial crash of 2008. Still miss it.
Thankfully they all weren't destroyed in the crash. I live mine ❤️
Great explanation of the JP-8K. The phase is not random per-se, rather it's free flowing (like an analog synth). This is one of the reasons why riffs and pads sound cohesive and move harmoniously. In fact I must get my JP-8080 out. I've left it far too long! The envelope curves are very linear. They got the oscillators done very well, the filter is unique but not authentic in analogue terms but it has a timeless sound.
Fully agree!
I wish Berhinger could release a new version of this synth with today's specifications.
love that synth
omg love the intro song! barthezz on the moove (i think )
Yes, it is ❤
Thanks for this. WRT tuning... I’ve not done the math, but I think that that bachelor’s (not master’s or doctoral, mind you) thesis simply finds that the detuning on the extra saw waves is internally defined in cents. Little surprised (though only a little) that the author didn’t think of that. (There is no conversion from cents to Hz, the cent is a logarithmic unit of measure for a musical interval, which is why his Figure 8 looks like it does. Those are log curves.) The finding that the fundamental is reduced is good to know. This gives me some ideas about waveforms and wavetables to compute. Anyway, great video, thanks for sharing!
Trance of course do exist also before, but with the Super Saw from the JP-8000 he got his signature sound, which still makes me goosebumps and the reason, why i own one!
sounds like heaven
While the supersaw is great, IMO it was but one item that makes this synth essential. For live performance, the control layout is wonderful. If you need a mod wheel that can be ‘stuck’ (instead of always returning to zero, as the paddle does) you can assign that modulation to the ribbon. And then there’s the low pass filter, which rivals the Moog for openness and aggressiveness.
The one big negative about the synth is the aliasing in the high registers. I avoid that by not spending inordinate time in those registers.
In 1997, I played a JP-8000 in a music store and I thought it was so cool, but I was a broke kid with no money. In 2012, I finally bought one off eBay, but when it arrived, I realized it had a bunch of smoke damage, so... I bought a second one off eBay! I had them for a few years, but eventually had to sell them due to life stuff. It felt good to have those few years where I could take myself back to being a kid in a music store every time I played it.
Great video, I love my JP-8000 more and more each day!
Hi Marc , nice video . How did you make the sounds between 06:00 and 06:40 in this video ?
This is pure Supersaw from the JP8000 with delay and its eq. The arp I programmed in Bitwig and played the bass notes live in the video.
@@MarcRenton thanks for the info and well done !
I love the sound at 6:30, I also have a JP8000 could you tell me how to create this sound please.
This is the pure Supersaw, combined with the onboard EQ and delay. Filter set a little bit lower, so that the Filter Envelope kicks in while the arpeggiator plays the notes. This is what I like about the synth: You get marvellous sounds instantly!
Would that be the Arpeggiator on ‘2 Oct’ and the ‘ARP hold’ on?
Sorry, I’m still learning my way around the JP.
The arp-sequence was programmed and played via Bitwig. Hence, I did not use the onboard arp.
Oh I see, it sounds great. Would love to hear and see more supersaw riffs videos of the JP
Supersaws forever!
Sold mine in 2011. Downsized my studio for travel. Miss it. Am not traveling as much now, have reequipped my studio since. Would buy another JP8000 if I found the right one.
Best digital synth ever
I'm wondering do you have your hands on the Roland GAIA 2 i'd like to see a vs with the JP-8000. The GAIA 2 has a JP8k sub osc in the OSC1 wavetable as well as super saws in OSC 2 and 3.
Unfortunately I don't own one. So if someone could borrow me one, I could do so :-)
@@MarcRenton I mean if you lived in Melbourne AU that would not be a problem 😂😂
@markszili2577 Melbourne or Munich, just a minor distance in between 😅
Bought one last year and sold it to fund another project. Instantly regret it. Found a really clean one recently and picked it up again for my studio partner. It's such a timeless classic now and imo there's no VST that can even come close.
miss mine, Roland please reissue in full size!!!
Yes, that would be a dream. I would buy it again in a heartbeat.
Love mine, but build quality was terrible - try before you buy! Try running super saws through an Aural Exciter - I think it gives a smoother, lusher sound - especially on the higher notes.
Yeah my ribbon controller and modulation wheel is not working. And some knobs glitch around. However, nothing that really stops me from using the sound engine
@@MarcRenton This is why I haven't bought another one. They all seem to have one issue or another. I hate dealing with broken gear.
I used to have a JP-8000. It's a fun little synth, It sounds gritty and plastic most of the time. Little wonder that such a plastic sounding synt would breed the most plastic sounding dance genre :) At the time it really was a dream machine for me though, even if I didn't use it to make Trance. It can be used in any kind of music which requires synth sounds. I'm kind of hoping that a proper software version will be released by Roland at some point.
Anyway I sold mine to finance a System 8, which does most of the stuff a JP 8000 does and then some :) Never looked back really.
Look up the JP6K. It’s a good vst clone
& Ostirus is a perfect virus clone
Wie machst du den Bass ab 0:36?
Hi JP-8000_Junkie (was für ein stabiler Nickname xD ) - so wie du die Lead Melodie hörst, spiele ich da einfach nur den Bass manuell dazu. Das ist also derselbe DYI-Patch, bei dem ich vom Init ausging und mir diesen Supersaw-Patch gebastelt hatte. Bisschen Detune, JP-Delay, Chorus und EQ.
@@MarcRenton OK danke.
Wish roland would have added the control ribbon to the jp8080.
Unfortunately mine is not working anymore. Hence, I never could make use of it. But I'm curious - what would you control with it?
@MarcRenton as an added layer of expression probably route it the pitch bend with filter.
What is better a Waldorf blofeld, Yamaha an1x, behringer deepmind 12 or a jp8000 in terms of trance music production...?
JP-8000, I would say. Never found the supersaw in Waldorf Largo or Blofeld that good sounding, and, the Deepming is an analog synth with rather limited architecture (only one oscillator, for example). Dunno the an1x.
I wouldn't get either of those, and buy a Virus TI though. Much more versatile synth.
Barthezz!
Do you know what is better than a JP-8000? Two JP-8080.
Same engine but the 8080 has a few extra features
@@rabmccudden683 I know. I have two 8080 and I sync them and let go. I could buy a third one playing that way. I have a Quasimidi Polymorph for clock.
@@vjrei shit sorry I read your message wrong 😅. U lucky bugger I’ve never even seen 1 in real life. I’d love 1 😎
Yeah, they’re pretty awesome but line doesn’t work any more properly goes crazy
I hear Robert Miles, RIP
I'm hoping they finally re-release the engine in a new synth instead of using some sampled cycles. Cannot be too hard, c'mon Roland!
the sound engine wasnt developed like todays fully virtual analogue synthes, the sound waves sounded worse, they had less texture
The Roland System 8 and the Summit does it better
ruclips.net/video/NkUqnxhrjZ8/видео.html What are you supposed to make on on an unsynced scope and for some reason you're playing several voices??? What were you even trying to show?
For example show the amplitude-modulation? It was not my intention to show a raw supersaw, if this is your ask.
you cant beat the super saw in the jp8000