Captions are up! This is a companion piece to The Cynic Clinic's video Kishotenketsu, which you can find here: ruclips.net/video/O0RYFLXUKU0/видео.html The Parallax video I mentioned (on Kofuku no Kagaku): ruclips.net/video/hfAtHP_7ypQ/видео.html On another note, there's quite a few KSTK analyses of Attack on Titan, so I am hardly the first one to broach this topic. The subreddit has a lot of interesting analyses, I didn't end up using any of them (since I wanted to keep it simpler at the moment).
Ki-Sho-Ten-Ketsu was originally a concept to explain Jueju/ Chinese poetry, so it was not related to storytelling. It was useful because Jueju consists of four parts. Japanese language education has mistakenly used it as the most basic structure of text for a long time. These days, some academic tutors have to explain to their students why they shouldn't use ki-sho-ten-ketsu in essays. Regarding manga, some creators started using it in the 1920s. Later, Osamu Tezuka wrote in "Manga no Kakikata" that Ki-Sho-Ten-Ketsu is the most basic storytelling method. It was obviously related to 4-panel manga. I guess it was also related to those old manga creators' common career path. Tezuka's ki-sho-ten-ketsu myth was inherited by Tokiwa-so manga creators. Jiro Tsunoda is a typical example.
Sounds like Ki-Sho-Ten-Kentsu was originally of Jueju of China but a country and centuries apart has created its own and fairly distinct usage of the term. Its like how the west uses the term anime. In Japan anime is most any cartoon or animated work but the west has adapted the term for animated work, with its distinctive visuals, as being Japanese made. Its not how its usually used but it has come unto its own usage.
@@adroitws1367 They always write the points and results at the end of the essays, so their readability is very low. You cannot get the point of the text unless you read the conclusions.
Been waiting for this video ever since the insomnia stream. This is the smartest way I've seen Attack On Titan being tackled on the internet, as expected. Now time to come back to it later and take notes. Oh, and the video looks just as *chef's kiss* as ever
@@PauseandSelect Hey Joe. No surprise, but the last good thing about Attack On Titan was your video. Watching this video after 139 makes the humor even better. My respect for you has increased tenfold. Keep up the good work.
Great job to both Joe & Skrullz on this video. It flowed really well and has a nice balance of jokes and serious analysis. 🙏Here's to hoping this one can surpass Jin-Roh.
Joe did all the heavy lifting but thank you for compliment. I think it would be awesome if this video had more views, I think the video is great. ~ Skrullz
As a side note, Kishotenketsu is taught as the basic writing structure in Korean schools as well. It is called 기승전결 (起承轉結, pronounced ki-seung-jeon-gyeol) here and most language arts teachers teach this foremost when teaching children how to write. And with how the web novel and webtoon industries are flourishing, cram schools for storytelling are also flourishing and yes, these cram schools also teach Kishotenketsu structure. As a result, Kishotenketsu structure is prevalent in Korean media. However, the 3 act structure is also often taught and it is also pretty common.
I'm not sure I fully grasped the implication of this kind of structure since I'm not familiar in general with narratology and asian art in general, but the way I see it this kind of plot development is more focused on the relation between the media and the spectator than the classic character evolution. If what is usually called a plot twis is the event that determines the way in which a character or a story must act, react or progress, the ten moment in kishotenketsu revolves more on the way a turn of event changes the way in which the spectator experiences the story itself. It's obviously a way to self reflect on the concept of point of view. This is actually one of the reason why shingeki no kyogin is so compelling, because every new piece of information gives room to a king of change that is not only based on diegetic events but on the general view to give an interpretation on what you see, from the stereotipical hero's journey of the shonen to a mythological universe where every individual seems to be doomed to its future for the semple reason of being born. It's an interesting topic, I'll dig deep on this kind of narrative developments because as you've said its an useful tool for any kind of interpretation. In general I really love you editing, actually it's something i'd love to learn and the fact that you are visually skilled in making your works while having a writing method completely research based makes you one of my favourite creator, evef if most of the time i know almost nothing of what you're talking about. Also I started yesterday to read Debord's La societè du spectacle in which there's an introduction by Pasquale Stanziale where he cites Hardt and Negri's book and seeing you talking about it in the end is one of those coincidences that i can't ignore. I've been wanting to read Negri for a while being italian myself so i'll take this like a personal suggestion. Also 2 this is probably the first time in years that i'm writing in english and this reminds me that it's fucking hard because i'm out of practice and that i should be a little less sociopath even on the internet; so thank you.
I think you actually got it! And yeah, given, AoT's pretty heavy emphasis on conspiracy it really lends itself well to unfurling or unfolding more bits and pieces in this way. I heard there's a new translation of SoS in the works, I'm not sure what exactly is going to happen with it, but what are your thoughts on that?
@@PauseandSelect well, i'm reading it in italian so i'm not really informed but in this edition there're actually two praface written by Debord itself where he literally throw shit on many of the translations made for this book, talking about how even in this case most of the time a translator job is to make his work fast and cheap to follow the wave of the book launch and how his book has remained the same, without changes and correction because it was written from a position that actually got how society and economic interact and how will develop, so that any future event that occured was actually something that could never disprove what was written but actually confirm its depiction of reality. I'd say this is totally a french way of thinking, maybe not totally in a good way, but i can't say that from what I've read I'm not fascinated by the lucidity with which debord description of 1967 reflects on what is today society. The first chapter ends with this thesis that i'll try to translate: Spectacle is the capital to a degree of accumulation that it becomes picture. This is something that actually scares me because at this moment i can't imagine a life, my life, where anything i relate to isn't an image, ergo a product. So yeah, i'm in a phase where it's really hard to not feel fucked up.
@@PauseandSelect thanks, nowadays any kind of support can be helpful! In the meantime I'll try to dig deeper into some of the anime you've talked about to better grasp your older video
Great video as always. I heard about the five act structure before but not a four act structure. I know about the five act kabuki structure because there's a theory that divides the One Piece community of whether the current arc, Wano is going to be a five act. This is the first time I am actually getting a clearer picture of the four act story structure. Attack on Titan and Madoka Magica are great series to analyze about story structure especially since Madoka Magica likes to be experimental.
@@PauseandSelect Yes, the recent arc is very Japanese with the mythology and music and has characters based on Kabuki with Kabuki story structures. The Wano Arc is so far divided into three acts with a curtain opening and closing before and after each act with an orian playing a shamisen. Between each act there is a couple of episodes which are the intermission which reveals what has been going on in the rest of the world. One Piece has a lot of interesting story elements especially the foreshadowing. I would say that Oda, mangaka of One Piece is a master of short-term and long-term storytelling.
@@PauseandSelect Only with the recent Wano Arc. The Wano country is based off Feudal Japan. And Oda being Oda, he weaves as much cultural references as possible suited within the scope of story that he is writing, especially the themes that would be relevant to the arc. And since Wano arc would be the climax of the present super saga(and his most ambitious grand-scale conflict to date), its fitting to use the Kabuki 5 acts structure. The amount of build up during the acts one and two is crazy. And now that we are on the third act, we are bracing for the upcoming "tragedy".
Maybe the best video you have made it talks about an interesting topic, it has great editing and it's exciting. This is a video I will rewatch in future.
I am writing a book write now and I am kinda struggling with it...might be cool to keep this kind of act structure in mind (or at least for my next story). Thanks for the video it was fun to watch!
I'm so glad that I saw this because I've always known that japanese manga and anime just "feel" different but i never knew why, but now i know thank you. AND now i know that they teach how to tell manga stories like damn i never knew that. I need to look that up
3 years ago, a spanish anituber Ememonogatari did a video about kishoutenketsu in My Neighbor Totoro, but unless you understand spanish, nevermind. But I have a "problem" with this video and the one mentioned before, which is: I can't grasp the real difference betwen introduction-conflict-resolution and kishoutenketsu. I first heard about this concept, or rather the chinese equivalent 起承轉合 in chinese highschool, in the context of writting essays, particullarly argumentative essays, and understood it more or less like introduction thesis antithesis synthesis. (dialectics, oh man, am I occidentalizyng things) The thing is, in the context of storytelling you can interpret the structure of introduction-conflict-resolution as ki-shouten-ketsu, or kishou-ten-ketsu, or just shou-ten-ketsu, and the inverse. It is possible to apply the 3 part structure in stories that were designed with the 4 part structure, and vice versa. I guess the question would be, what is the difference between the estructure intro-conflict-res and kishoutenketsu if its posible to translate one format into the other and applying it both ways? what is the benefit/value of using this category (kishoutenketsu)? While writting this response, I started seeing it all coming together and probably understood the point lol. But anyway, I want to see your answer.
So that's why I mention parallax, because while it can flit between different structures, I think it's particularly useful when one structure seemingly "fails." For example, if you use a three-act analysis and it doesn't make sense, hey, make KSTK might! etcetc. In this sense, it's not to say "oh this is better!" but rather this alternative method might give some other kind of insight. I'm not trying to stop someone from applying another form, just throwing it out there like a card in a deck, haha.
When looking at the intro, Ki, Sho, Ten, Ketsu, it reminded me of how in the U.S. we were taught that triangle literary device diagram that had Exposition, Rising Action, Climax, Falling Action, and Denouement/Conclusion _/\_. Of course, both are very different, so the comparison is unfair, but I think it's interesting how different cultures and countries have their own structures. Tbh, I've seen Ki Sho Ten Ketsu, but never thought about it too much. Really nice insight on how it can be used to make reader think more and reorganize their perspectives.
i'm always in awe of the editing on your videos. it's really top-notch stuff. and thank you for making another educational video that can apply to japanese media as a whole! i loved your japan sinks videos because they gave me so much historical context and helped me understand the natural disaster story, one of my favorite sub-genres, from a japanese perspective. i'm definitely gonna be on the lookout for the kishōtenketsu structure in anime and manga from now on, and i have an interesting bit of trivia to throw at my dad next time he brings up the "odd story structure" of an anime ;)
I'm not sure if KSTK applies to Japanese media as a whole, there's definitely holes (haha), but I think it's helpful, and I just wanted to make a mention of it because I didn't see too much on the tubes.
The structure is also ubiquitous in chinese media, though it's interesting to lens it on AoT and realize it's playing with it in folds. One thing that I found myself thinking often consuming media is when the story reaches some sort of twist, how 'convincing' were the build-ups and developments that came before it. Rewatching shows let you chew Ki and Sho differently due to the shift of vantage point you were saying. Very tasty editing as usual!
I've always felt that Nolan's batman movies follow a 4 Act rather then 3 Act Structure and am annoyed that people making Video Essays on them can't seem to figure that out. It's perhaps easiest for my break down with Begins. Acts is everything before Bruce returns to Gotham including the flashbacks. Acts 2 is about bringing down Falcone, Acts 4 is Crane/Scarecrow's part of the film, and then the final act is taking on the real Big Bad Ra's Al Guhl. Now this makes me wonder if Nolan was secretly influenced by some Japanese works no one talks about?
I've got a few resources in the video description. Perhaps a written summary would be better. Likewise, Jayden has a video as well, it's also in the video description.
I've been kinda trying to figure out why I have to watch your videos multiple times to understand what you're talking about. And I realized, aside from me not being smart enough, it's because you don't really give specific examples. You do show the relevant clips while you're talking about certain ideas, but the relationship between the clip and the abstract point you're making isn't spelled out. I get that this is, on a certain level, a personal preference. But I just can't help but feel like the videos would be easier to understand if the examples and abstract points were threaded together more explicitly. Love your insights, hope I'm not overstepping here.
First of all, you're smarter than you're giving yourself credit. Never ever try and soften any critique with "aside from me not being smart enough," you're worth more than that! And second, I think that's a fair criticism, but let's be clear in that I DO give examples - they're the visuals as you mentioned, I just don't outright tell my audience (or don't like to) exactly how that relates. I come from the Kogonada school of editing videos, where you assume that the visuals presented are the evidence, that a person sees something in the TV show, remembers what that incident is about or what happens, and reconciles the argument with the visual example. It gives, in my opinion, the viewer a lot of space to come to their own conclusions, regardless of whether it agrees with me or not. I personally like it, but based on your comment, I can see how someone who isn't from that video approach might not. I'm not a fan of the EFAP school of "explain how everything works in a direct way" because I don't see myself as some sort of pedagogical guy, I only explain things because I have to, my old videos are WAY more cryptic than this because I just assumed that my audience would look it up on their own. I think I can somewhat explicitly mention what happens in the show and then say "see?" But to me, like feels like bloat. Now, to be clear, that's not saying I'm rejecting your advice, I'm gonna mull on this and think about how to go about doing it.
@@PauseandSelect Thanks for the response! After some more thinking, I suppose the main reason for my struggling is because plot details just slough off of my brain within a month of watching a thing. But if I rewatched the first season of AoT again, it should be much easier to follow!
I haven't watched your recent videos but I really hope you got your way reconciling these two "ways of editing", respecting the "show, don't tell" motto while also making it easier to follow to, let's say, people like me who doesn't have the memory to remember the exact piece of a work an analyst is referring to nor the intention to go re-watch it to fully grasp said point. I also know the struggle anitubers have to go through because of copyright claims, etc. so that adds more editing work to the question, but being as masterful as you are with it, I think it would be even more meaningful to the overall quality of your work and not the opposite. (sorry if my English is too bad, I'm still learning)
The moment you described the concept, the first thing that came to my mind was Nintendo (and Mario), haha! This concept explains a good deal of Japanese media (or inspired media) that I consume.
The most impressive thing about Attack on Titan's story is not only does it follow Ki-Sho-Ten-Ketsu within each individual arc, the overall plot spanning 9 arcs is also just one big four-act story: Ki: Fall of Shiganshina arc - 104th Training Corps arc (arc 1-3) Sho: Female Titan arc - RTS (arc 4-7) Ten: Marley arc - WFP till chapter 123 (arc 8-9.5) Ketsu: WFP chapter 123-139 (arc 9.5-9.9) It's rare to see any long running show having an overarching four-act structure like this spanning multiple seasons/arcs, because it requires the author planning out the whole story (including the twist and climax that comes 4 seasons down the line) from the very beginning and sticking to it until the end. But this is exactly what AoT has and why it's a masterpiece from a narrative standpont.
He didn't plan it, he had to scrap the original ending because the manga got popular. Obviously the rushed ending would tell you he just did some stuff.
Well Jo-Ha-Kyu is still in three parts, and I don't think you need to necessarily ditch the three act structure, but I do think knowing about more options can be helpful.
@@PauseandSelect Being honest with you, I'm tired of three act structures. I think we can, and should, go beyond. Shakespeare had his 5 act structure, and Game of Thrones does that thing where the story starts to wrap up, but new conflicts are developed and revealed, and I just don't know. So many possibilities
Captions are up!
This is a companion piece to The Cynic Clinic's video Kishotenketsu, which you can find here:
ruclips.net/video/O0RYFLXUKU0/видео.html
The Parallax video I mentioned (on Kofuku no Kagaku):
ruclips.net/video/hfAtHP_7ypQ/видео.html
On another note, there's quite a few KSTK analyses of Attack on Titan, so I am hardly the first one to broach this topic. The subreddit has a lot of interesting analyses, I didn't end up using any of them (since I wanted to keep it simpler at the moment).
ki
@@TheCynicClinic sho
@@PauseandSelect ten
結
Ki-Sho-Ten-Ketsu was originally a concept to explain Jueju/ Chinese poetry, so it was not related to storytelling.
It was useful because Jueju consists of four parts.
Japanese language education has mistakenly used it as the most basic structure of text for a long time.
These days, some academic tutors have to explain to their students why they shouldn't use ki-sho-ten-ketsu in essays.
Regarding manga, some creators started using it in the 1920s.
Later, Osamu Tezuka wrote in "Manga no Kakikata" that Ki-Sho-Ten-Ketsu is the most basic storytelling method.
It was obviously related to 4-panel manga. I guess it was also related to those old manga creators' common career path.
Tezuka's ki-sho-ten-ketsu myth was inherited by Tokiwa-so manga creators. Jiro Tsunoda is a typical example.
Huh, that transition out is interesting.
Sounds like Ki-Sho-Ten-Kentsu was originally of Jueju of China but a country and centuries apart has created its own and fairly distinct usage of the term. Its like how the west uses the term anime. In Japan anime is most any cartoon or animated work but the west has adapted the term for animated work, with its distinctive visuals, as being Japanese made. Its not how its usually used but it has come unto its own usage.
wow, no wonder I dislike the show and think it's baby-brained garbage
you should've made the video, where's your channel
why academic tutor didnt want student to use kishotenketsu in essay?
@@adroitws1367 They always write the points and results at the end of the essays, so their readability is very low. You cannot get the point of the text unless you read the conclusions.
Loving the green screen humor and text editing in this video
Thanks Eliah!
Been waiting for this video ever since the insomnia stream. This is the smartest way I've seen Attack On Titan being tackled on the internet, as expected. Now time to come back to it later and take notes.
Oh, and the video looks just as *chef's kiss* as ever
There's a lot of really interesting Attack on Titan out there, the subreddit has a lot of interesting stuff last I checked.
@@PauseandSelect Hey Joe. No surprise, but the last good thing about Attack On Titan was your video. Watching this video after 139 makes the humor even better. My respect for you has increased tenfold. Keep up the good work.
I see the one minute AoT vid idea has turned into 22mins, very epic loved it
I keep telling myself "just five minutes" and it becomes a mess.
Whoa whoa whoa holy shit this was so well made! You NEED MORE VIEWS
Thank you for the kind words Admiral Traunt.
HE DOES
Amazing video, as always. The Editing (and the joker) are on point.
Thanks Jeffrey!
Great job to both Joe & Skrullz on this video. It flowed really well and has a nice balance of jokes and serious analysis.
🙏Here's to hoping this one can surpass Jin-Roh.
Joe did all the heavy lifting but thank you for compliment. I think it would be awesome if this video had more views, I think the video is great. ~ Skrullz
"and for my last sentence of the video, this 4 part structure is how Attack on Titan is MORE related to Muv Luv Alternative." *drops mike*
Part 3: Schwarzesmarken!!!
As a side note, Kishotenketsu is taught as the basic writing structure in Korean schools as well. It is called 기승전결 (起承轉結, pronounced ki-seung-jeon-gyeol) here and most language arts teachers teach this foremost when teaching children how to write. And with how the web novel and webtoon industries are flourishing, cram schools for storytelling are also flourishing and yes, these cram schools also teach Kishotenketsu structure. As a result, Kishotenketsu structure is prevalent in Korean media. However, the 3 act structure is also often taught and it is also pretty common.
Damn this editing is top tier
Thanks for your time Amlan!
I'm not sure I fully grasped the implication of this kind of structure since I'm not familiar in general with narratology and asian art in general, but the way I see it this kind of plot development is more focused on the relation between the media and the spectator than the classic character evolution. If what is usually called a plot twis is the event that determines the way in which a character or a story must act, react or progress, the ten moment in kishotenketsu revolves more on the way a turn of event changes the way in which the spectator experiences the story itself. It's obviously a way to self reflect on the concept of point of view. This is actually one of the reason why shingeki no kyogin is so compelling, because every new piece of information gives room to a king of change that is not only based on diegetic events but on the general view to give an interpretation on what you see, from the stereotipical hero's journey of the shonen to a mythological universe where every individual seems to be doomed to its future for the semple reason of being born.
It's an interesting topic, I'll dig deep on this kind of narrative developments because as you've said its an useful tool for any kind of interpretation.
In general I really love you editing, actually it's something i'd love to learn and the fact that you are visually skilled in making your works while having a writing method completely research based makes you one of my favourite creator, evef if most of the time i know almost nothing of what you're talking about.
Also I started yesterday to read Debord's La societè du spectacle in which there's an introduction by Pasquale Stanziale where he cites Hardt and Negri's book and seeing you talking about it in the end is one of those coincidences that i can't ignore. I've been wanting to read Negri for a while being italian myself so i'll take this like a personal suggestion.
Also 2 this is probably the first time in years that i'm writing in english and this reminds me that it's fucking hard because i'm out of practice and that i should be a little less sociopath even on the internet; so thank you.
I think you actually got it! And yeah, given, AoT's pretty heavy emphasis on conspiracy it really lends itself well to unfurling or unfolding more bits and pieces in this way.
I heard there's a new translation of SoS in the works, I'm not sure what exactly is going to happen with it, but what are your thoughts on that?
@@PauseandSelect well, i'm reading it in italian so i'm not really informed but in this edition there're actually two praface written by Debord itself where he literally throw shit on many of the translations made for this book, talking about how even in this case most of the time a translator job is to make his work fast and cheap to follow the wave of the book launch and how his book has remained the same, without changes and correction because it was written from a position that actually got how society and economic interact and how will develop, so that any future event that occured was actually something that could never disprove what was written but actually confirm its depiction of reality.
I'd say this is totally a french way of thinking, maybe not totally in a good way, but i can't say that from what I've read I'm not fascinated by the lucidity with which debord description of 1967 reflects on what is today society. The first chapter ends with this thesis that i'll try to translate: Spectacle is the capital to a degree of accumulation that it becomes picture.
This is something that actually scares me because at this moment i can't imagine a life, my life, where anything i relate to isn't an image, ergo a product. So yeah, i'm in a phase where it's really hard to not feel fucked up.
@@fotogeniacostruttiva I don't have much to add other than that I believe in you fam!
@@PauseandSelect thanks, nowadays any kind of support can be helpful! In the meantime I'll try to dig deeper into some of the anime you've talked about to better grasp your older video
You’re amazing. Just discovered this channel a few hours ago and haven’t regretted it since.
Wow, this stuff is so new to me! I never would've thought of this before, thanks!!
Yeah, I didnt really expect the video to highlight AoT in this way. I think it's pretty interesting. Your video was cool too! ~ Skrullz
Liar.
this is borderline experimental
Thanks lol
love how the video is also in a four act story structure
Great video as always. I heard about the five act structure before but not a four act structure. I know about the five act kabuki structure because there's a theory that divides the One Piece community of whether the current arc, Wano is going to be a five act. This is the first time I am actually getting a clearer picture of the four act story structure. Attack on Titan and Madoka Magica are great series to analyze about story structure especially since Madoka Magica likes to be experimental.
Huh, I didn't know that One Piece might be drawing on Kabuki, that's really interesting. Now I gotta start watching One Piece.
@@PauseandSelect Yes, the recent arc is very Japanese with the mythology and music and has characters based on Kabuki with Kabuki story structures. The Wano Arc is so far divided into three acts with a curtain opening and closing before and after each act with an orian playing a shamisen. Between each act there is a couple of episodes which are the intermission which reveals what has been going on in the rest of the world. One Piece has a lot of interesting story elements especially the foreshadowing. I would say that Oda, mangaka of One Piece is a master of short-term and long-term storytelling.
@@PauseandSelect Only with the recent Wano Arc. The Wano country is based off Feudal Japan. And Oda being Oda, he weaves as much cultural references as possible suited within the scope of story that he is writing, especially the themes that would be relevant to the arc. And since Wano arc would be the climax of the present super saga(and his most ambitious grand-scale conflict to date), its fitting to use the Kabuki 5 acts structure. The amount of build up during the acts one and two is crazy. And now that we are on the third act, we are bracing for the upcoming "tragedy".
@@justaway6901 Ah, gotcha.
one of the best channels on this website keep it up king
I appreciate the kind words!
18 seconds in and I am expecting a reference to the 起承転結 joke from SZS
If it's not there we're having words
a...hahaha....well, I, uh....gotta go!!
@@PauseandSelect 😒
Honestly this channels is worthy of a lot of subscription
Maybe the best video you have made it talks about an interesting topic, it has great editing and it's exciting. This is a video I will rewatch in future.
Thanks Otto! I'm always trying to make my content better, so it's good to know it's getting better!
I am writing a book write now and I am kinda struggling with it...might be cool to keep this kind of act structure in mind (or at least for my next story). Thanks for the video it was fun to watch!
Glad this video could be potentially helpful to you on your narrative journey. ~ Skrullz
Crazy editing man!
Thank you very much for the kind words Shaun!
Thanks for making this vid.
Thanks for watching it!
Slovoj Zizek is a perfect match for this channel! It's something I never expected but as soon as his voice came on it felt so natural.
9:50 knives out
I love all these live action bits and all the little edits in this!!!
woa phone hologram projection at the very start. Doing big things!
Yeah I started abusing the motion tracker lol
You really did a good job with this
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Great work as always
Thanks Ham!
I just lost my attention for one second and suddenly I hear Zizek's voice hell yeah..
heh
Great video as always Joe 💜🐸💜
Thanks for the kind words Bini!
Love your content bro keep going !
Thank you for the kind words 1995yuda
I'm so glad that I saw this because I've always known that japanese manga and anime just "feel" different but i never knew why, but now i know thank you. AND now i know that they teach how to tell manga stories like damn i never knew that. I need to look that up
great job! Cheers from Brazil
Thanks Pedro!
Wow it really is everywhere, gonna think about this 4AS when watching anime in the future.
eyes emoji
3 years ago, a spanish anituber Ememonogatari did a video about kishoutenketsu in My Neighbor Totoro, but unless you understand spanish, nevermind.
But I have a "problem" with this video and the one mentioned before, which is: I can't grasp the real difference betwen introduction-conflict-resolution and kishoutenketsu.
I first heard about this concept, or rather the chinese equivalent 起承轉合 in chinese highschool, in the context of writting essays, particullarly argumentative essays, and understood it more or less like introduction thesis antithesis synthesis. (dialectics, oh man, am I occidentalizyng things)
The thing is, in the context of storytelling you can interpret the structure of introduction-conflict-resolution as ki-shouten-ketsu, or kishou-ten-ketsu, or just shou-ten-ketsu, and the inverse. It is possible to apply the 3 part structure in stories that were designed with the 4 part structure, and vice versa.
I guess the question would be, what is the difference between the estructure intro-conflict-res and kishoutenketsu if its posible to translate one format into the other and applying it both ways? what is the benefit/value of using this category (kishoutenketsu)?
While writting this response, I started seeing it all coming together and probably understood the point lol. But anyway, I want to see your answer.
So that's why I mention parallax, because while it can flit between different structures, I think it's particularly useful when one structure seemingly "fails." For example, if you use a three-act analysis and it doesn't make sense, hey, make KSTK might! etcetc. In this sense, it's not to say "oh this is better!" but rather this alternative method might give some other kind of insight. I'm not trying to stop someone from applying another form, just throwing it out there like a card in a deck, haha.
sayonara zetsubou sensey mentions a fifth hidden secret act - disapointment
lol
Yess, that episode of zetsubou sensei was great
Perfect Videography,the meta way is good
sweat emoji
Amazing
Thanks Chronmi!
Haven’t started the video but that thumbnail is next gen
yes
When looking at the intro, Ki, Sho, Ten, Ketsu, it reminded me of how in the U.S. we were taught that triangle literary device diagram that had Exposition, Rising Action, Climax, Falling Action, and Denouement/Conclusion _/\_. Of course, both are very different, so the comparison is unfair, but I think it's interesting how different cultures and countries have their own structures. Tbh, I've seen Ki Sho Ten Ketsu, but never thought about it too much. Really nice insight on how it can be used to make reader think more and reorganize their perspectives.
thx for the great explaination of Ki Sho Ten Ketsu.
Jeez the editing man.
i'm always in awe of the editing on your videos. it's really top-notch stuff. and thank you for making another educational video that can apply to japanese media as a whole! i loved your japan sinks videos because they gave me so much historical context and helped me understand the natural disaster story, one of my favorite sub-genres, from a japanese perspective. i'm definitely gonna be on the lookout for the kishōtenketsu structure in anime and manga from now on, and i have an interesting bit of trivia to throw at my dad next time he brings up the "odd story structure" of an anime ;)
I'm not sure if KSTK applies to Japanese media as a whole, there's definitely holes (haha), but I think it's helpful, and I just wanted to make a mention of it because I didn't see too much on the tubes.
I can´t get enough of your kind of humour!
Hi, this is really well done. Good Job, keep it up ! ^o^
Thank you hitagi!
The structure is also ubiquitous in chinese media, though it's interesting to lens it on AoT and realize it's playing with it in folds. One thing that I found myself thinking often consuming media is when the story reaches some sort of twist, how 'convincing' were the build-ups and developments that came before it. Rewatching shows let you chew Ki and Sho differently due to the shift of vantage point you were saying.
Very tasty editing as usual!
Bump for analytics!
This is amazing
Thank you Fthan
@@PauseandSelect you're welcome Pause and Select
Very cool Joe, love you Joe
Thank you for watching it Oklanime!
KISHOTENKETSU
KI. SHO. TEN. KETSU
funny man joe has arrived, the competition crumbles.
Banger
Thank you!
Amazing vid
Thank you for the kind words!
great stuff, keep it up
Thanks for the kind words Captain!
Thanks for featuring papa Žižek
Oh man wait until I get to my long rant video about "Interesting does not equal good." It'll be a mess.
@@PauseandSelect I can already hear the hissing and sniffing
Damn, the original Jim Carrey Taiga video was taken down or something...
Don't even like Attack on Titan but loved this video, in part due to the Zizek soundbyte
Haha Thanks Rayan!
Damn you're good
Thank you OtakuEdits
didn't expect to hear zizek here
I've read pretty much every book he's written (in English). For better and worse.
@@PauseandSelect wouldn't expect anything less from you hehe
I was surprised and delighted to hear Slavoj Žižek's commentary
raccoon man
With what do you edit like this? How do you edit like this? Maaan... I need some tutorials haha. I want to be able to do the same.
I want you to put me throu a 40 min AoT video.
What do you think of the ending of the manga? Love your videos btw!
Žižek CAMEO!
Zizek and anime, has there ever been a better pair?
He did talk about eromanga once
94works from Bilibili brought me here
If a 3 act structure had what Westerners call a "plot twist" between the second and the 3 act, how close would that be to Kishotenketsu?
Good stuff as usual. Here's your (You).
I've always felt that Nolan's batman movies follow a 4 Act rather then 3 Act Structure and am annoyed that people making Video Essays on them can't seem to figure that out.
It's perhaps easiest for my break down with Begins. Acts is everything before Bruce returns to Gotham including the flashbacks. Acts 2 is about bringing down Falcone, Acts 4 is Crane/Scarecrow's part of the film, and then the final act is taking on the real Big Bad Ra's Al Guhl.
Now this makes me wonder if Nolan was secretly influenced by some Japanese works no one talks about?
He might not be secretly influenced, but it's totally possible he could've done something very similar. Interesting observation though.
@@PauseandSelect Thank you
I don't see how 4-act structure is not just an expanded view of a 3-act structure. They look identical to me.
I've got a few resources in the video description. Perhaps a written summary would be better. Likewise, Jayden has a video as well, it's also in the video description.
Good stuff man, but i wonder if your friend over there is doing alright.
lol
I didn’t understand the point of the Madoka section... was that it difibitely didn’t adhere to the four act structure?
I've been kinda trying to figure out why I have to watch your videos multiple times to understand what you're talking about. And I realized, aside from me not being smart enough, it's because you don't really give specific examples. You do show the relevant clips while you're talking about certain ideas, but the relationship between the clip and the abstract point you're making isn't spelled out. I get that this is, on a certain level, a personal preference. But I just can't help but feel like the videos would be easier to understand if the examples and abstract points were threaded together more explicitly. Love your insights, hope I'm not overstepping here.
First of all, you're smarter than you're giving yourself credit. Never ever try and soften any critique with "aside from me not being smart enough," you're worth more than that!
And second, I think that's a fair criticism, but let's be clear in that I DO give examples - they're the visuals as you mentioned, I just don't outright tell my audience (or don't like to) exactly how that relates. I come from the Kogonada school of editing videos, where you assume that the visuals presented are the evidence, that a person sees something in the TV show, remembers what that incident is about or what happens, and reconciles the argument with the visual example. It gives, in my opinion, the viewer a lot of space to come to their own conclusions, regardless of whether it agrees with me or not. I personally like it, but based on your comment, I can see how someone who isn't from that video approach might not.
I'm not a fan of the EFAP school of "explain how everything works in a direct way" because I don't see myself as some sort of pedagogical guy, I only explain things because I have to, my old videos are WAY more cryptic than this because I just assumed that my audience would look it up on their own.
I think I can somewhat explicitly mention what happens in the show and then say "see?" But to me, like feels like bloat. Now, to be clear, that's not saying I'm rejecting your advice, I'm gonna mull on this and think about how to go about doing it.
@@PauseandSelect Thanks for the response! After some more thinking, I suppose the main reason for my struggling is because plot details just slough off of my brain within a month of watching a thing. But if I rewatched the first season of AoT again, it should be much easier to follow!
I haven't watched your recent videos but I really hope you got your way reconciling these two "ways of editing", respecting the "show, don't tell" motto while also making it easier to follow to, let's say, people like me who doesn't have the memory to remember the exact piece of a work an analyst is referring to nor the intention to go re-watch it to fully grasp said point.
I also know the struggle anitubers have to go through because of copyright claims, etc. so that adds more editing work to the question, but being as masterful as you are with it, I think it would be even more meaningful to the overall quality of your work and not the opposite.
(sorry if my English is too bad, I'm still learning)
Rip that poor green screen
Fun editing, lots of effort. But I could barely follow this video, and I already know about kishoutenketsu
Sorry to hear that Sven!
I wonder if this story structure could give a logical explanation as to why I like Japanese visual media so much more than western.
Maybe I dunno
it might be a component of why you like certain works, but there are a number of other factors you should probably consider as well.
Obligatory algorithm comment.
Thank you.
The moment you described the concept, the first thing that came to my mind was Nintendo (and Mario), haha!
This concept explains a good deal of Japanese media (or inspired media) that I consume.
Yeah Mario is the big one for sure!
very cool comment
Thanks for the comment!
The most impressive thing about Attack on Titan's story is not only does it follow Ki-Sho-Ten-Ketsu within each individual arc, the overall plot spanning 9 arcs is also just one big four-act story:
Ki: Fall of Shiganshina arc - 104th Training Corps arc (arc 1-3)
Sho: Female Titan arc - RTS (arc 4-7)
Ten: Marley arc - WFP till chapter 123 (arc 8-9.5)
Ketsu: WFP chapter 123-139 (arc 9.5-9.9)
It's rare to see any long running show having an overarching four-act structure like this spanning multiple seasons/arcs, because it requires the author planning out the whole story (including the twist and climax that comes 4 seasons down the line) from the very beginning and sticking to it until the end. But this is exactly what AoT has and why it's a masterpiece from a narrative standpont.
He didn't plan it, he had to scrap the original ending because the manga got popular.
Obviously the rushed ending would tell you he just did some stuff.
Holy fucking shit. I’ve been looking for ways to ditch the 3 act structure
Well Jo-Ha-Kyu is still in three parts, and I don't think you need to necessarily ditch the three act structure, but I do think knowing about more options can be helpful.
@@PauseandSelect Being honest with you, I'm tired of three act structures. I think we can, and should, go beyond. Shakespeare had his 5 act structure, and Game of Thrones does that thing where the story starts to wrap up, but new conflicts are developed and revealed, and I just don't know. So many possibilities
@@hopebringer2348 Yeah I think the more different structures we've got, hopefully the more interesting these stories can be!
@@PauseandSelect Yo I can't stop watching this. It's just so mind blowing. Thank you so much!
@@PauseandSelect 3 months later I came back. Just as amazing
Or old china without the Communist.
0:51 editing is so sloppy. I’m not watching this garbage
Great stuff mate!
Thank you Blue Roman