Brand New Replacement Breakers - FED PAC, PUSH-MATIC, ZINSCO, CHALLENGER-A, & WADESWORTH
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- This episode is an interview I did recently with Connecticut Electric talking about their replacement breakers for old panels such as Zinsco, Federal Pacific, Push-Matic, Challenger Type-A, and Wadesworth.
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Thanks for giving Connecticut Electric the spotlight, I was never sure how they produced breakers; I'm glad to hear they do product development and certification .
im an electrician with nearly 30 years in the trade. as i see it right now , the only people i see you selling to right now are those who dont have the know how to replace their existing panel .with the price of one fed pac breaker at nine times the price of a square d and still not able to guarantee that the existing main breaker or other existing breakers wont fail putting your replacements in an old panel does not sound like a safe idea , nor an economical one. dont get me wrong , i have a federal pacific panel in my 1976 home now which is the reason im here. if you do not sell the 200 amp main breaker for this panel , it makes all the others new and used a mute point . if i cant trust it to trip as a last line of defense if other breakers fail , even if your breakers work while the old ones fail im still taking my chances with a risky panel unless i replace all the breakers . to replace my existing breakers in my panel with your replacements would conservatively cost me around $1000 when i can replace the panel with a square d homeline panel and all the breakers for around $350 . guess ive made my decision. if your prices were more in line with others it might be worth it . but at 3 times the price im not buying your stuff.
I found their cb at around $20, not bad. There are many homes in California that have these panels and the cost to change out a panel is much more than $1k.
The stab lok panel I've seen looked to be in fairly good condition so changing out the breakers seems like a viable option.
I've been a Electric Service Tech since 1984 and have never even seen one of those Push-O matic's!, At least here in my area "Baytown Texas, Near Houston", Lots of FPE and Zinsco still around here!
thanks. just added connecticut electric wadsworth replacement breaker to my shopping cart.
What a beneficial manufacturer interview video post. This was truly informational and I being a home owner discovered that the Sylvania Commander Load Center that is now going on 35 years. Fortunately it is located in a sheltered unheated area. But I did not know such a supplier existed . Now I know a good source for troublesome parts. I have a small collection to get me by.
I've been buying used Federal Pacific breakers on EBay. Didn't know I could get them new. Thanks.
Great job Chuck & Jeff. Very educational.
So do these replacement breakers make an old Zinsko panel safe, and if they are 'upgraded,' how or what are the changes, because I didn't hear one thing about why these new Zinsko breakers are more safe than the old Zinsko breaker that use to melt and fuse together?
We used to call FPE breakers Federal No-Trips. Remember doing a job in an old building with these. There were numerous panels scattered throughout, nothing marked. It would have taken all day to trace all the circuits back to disable them as we depowered a bunch of cord drops. My boss said, I’ll replace your side-cutters, but to speed things up, just cut the cord, it’ll trip the breaker and we can proceed more quickly. More often than not, I would place my side-cutters on the cord cable, turn my head and squeeze the handles, followed by great arcing, sparks, crackling noises until the cord was severed. Put a tester on the remaining cord only to find it still hot, whereas most breakers would trip if you looked at it long enough.
Bchluvr XYZ good story lol
I know this is going to come up with an inspector at some time, so please explain. What is the difference between "ETL tested to the UL Standard" and "UL Listed"? I know I am going to have to be able to answer this question and defend the use of this product, since we all know our installed products must be "UL Listed".
As far as the fpe, just replace the box. These breakers may be fine but if you have a panel from the 70's, or earlier, just put a new panel. Everything has a shelf life and it's a relatively small price to pay to keep you and your family safe. I have wadsworth breakers, which are fine, but going on 60 years old now. It was cost me $600 just to swap my breakers out for new. Maybe for commercial, but not for residential.
I believe it is Eaton makes kits that replace the bussing in existing fpe panelel boxes.sometimes they are in walls where sheet rock or plaster is just to brittle.you destroy a wall removing the actual box.the kits are panel specfic.the bussing itself on old fpe panels and the way the breaker stabbed in ( sloppy) on the buss was a piss poor design.just saying i did like 30 in a 70,s condo complex.worked pretty good.my 2 cents.
Personally I would want to replace the breakers and the box. The Zinsco panels had an aluminum bus bar and the breakers had a curved tension grabber. The grabber would loosen and arc. Modern breakers and boxes are much more reliable.
About half the FPE boxes still out there still have the stainless screw into aluminum thermal expansion problem and should be replaced anyway. More fires from that than from locked breakers.
Do you manufacture AFCI/GFCI/DFCI breakers for these panels?
Not sure of other locations, but per local authorities we are to replace FPE panels if we do any work
Question, why not replace pusho-Matics, fuse boxes, and federal Pacifics instead of replace their breakers
If it is economically viable, this is certainly the best solution, but sometimes, the customer just can't afford it.
@@GeorgeVCohea-dw7ou that’s fair, what of the liability whereby you touched the panel last let’s say replacing a federal pacific breaker (more like funeral pacific am I right) and then a different breaker in the same panel fails and causes fire with devastating results, wouldn’t you be held liable as last electrician in panel and choosing not to replace it? An obsolete and dangerous panel?
@@elijahrector2168
_Rock_ meet *hard place,* you will be best of friends! Seriously, it's sometimes best to pass on these jobs or going behind a specific person's prior work, and they can find someone else with questionable ethics willing to do what they want. Those people are a dime per dozen.
@@GeorgeVCohea-dw7ou ah but you see now, my initial point then? I offer panel upgrade, warn them of the hazard, and wash my hands of it if they don’t want to replace panel. On actual hazardous panels.
Thanks for all these helpful lessons Dustin. On episode 27 can you explain on what you were saying in the end on how to troubleshoot the ballast, high pressure sodium, metal halide and mercury bulbs. Please make a video on how to fix them and see why its not working I would be really glad thanks again.
I found a 2 pole 30 a for pushmatics at Ace. They really bailed me out.
Happy Thanksgiving! How does that square up with the fact that those panels are frowned upon by the AHJ and insurance companies? My liability insurance would how a cow if I did service work on one of those panels.
The FP panels maybe but the pushmatics have been Rock solid for years.
Dustin, Thanks for all you do for homeowners like me. I have an FPE panel with copper wiring in my home. Had the power company come out since my house would strobe/flicker when I was using my washer and my daughter using her hair iron and was told that the lines are all good with no report of fluctuations. His diagnosis was that the main breaker is failing. I don't have the $ right now to replace and upgrade to 200 amp, would you use these if your home had an FPE panel?
You gotta get that FPE garbage out of your house.
Did he measure the voltage across the main breaker under load and see significant voltage drip across it?
I am glad there making breakers but all of the home inspectors are listing those breakers and panels as substandard so what’s the point just replace panel all these new breakers would good for is replacements until the inevitable
Home inspectors are far from being experts in electrical installations, let alone anything else. Literally all you have to do to become a home inspector is take a week long course, and answer a multiple choice, open book exam, and you are a home inspector. In some places they don't even require that much, sort of like the diploma mills, and mail order seminaries that have always been around. All that home inspectors know is what other people have told them.
@@OlegKostoglatov Like one told me one time, although he was an older guy with years experience doing it... "we basically just run down a punch list for you guys".
It's also very very expensive to replace a 3-phase commercial panel I ran into this problem years back with a zinsco panel that was single phasing turned out that the three phase busbar for two main Breakers feeding sub-panels was toasted and one of the 3-phase Breakers was burnt as well in that case I was able to find remanufactured Parts but I would have liked to have brand-new instead the cost of replacing that panel would have been well over $10,000 not necessarily a viable option to a small business
Excellent this is exactly the RUclips I was looking for. I wanted to know if Connecticut breakers were UL improved replacements for Federal which have a reputation for not tripping.
I could replace the whole panel however it is in very good condition being in a bedroom wardrobe. So instead of replacing the whole panel I was hoping to just replace the breakers instead. Plus install a new 60 amp breaker for EV Connector. Does that sound reasonable?
Yeah I had to buy a replacement Zinsco breaker. It was $80.00. WTF!!!!!!
Cheapest 125amp main breaker I can find is $300! 😬 think I'm better off just replacing my panel lol.
Although they have been banned by the NEC since the late 70s for new installations, but does anyone make the odd ball breaker that clamps onto the two bus bars and has a lug for a high leg, which allows for one three phase load, in a single phase box, for replacement use only. From my research these odd ball breakers were somewhat popular in the 50s and 60s, when residential air conditioning was in it's infancy and some of the 5 ton units at that time were made to operate at 240 volts, 3 phase, and some utilities would install an additional transformer on the property to create a high leg delta, just for the new fangled air conditioner, and the rest of the home was 120/240 1 phase.
Can they make ,double pole 240 volt straight rated breakers for less in the standard brands. I run into a lot of 240 volt ungrounded and high leg deltas. And I would like to be able to use 240 volt single phase loads on these systems without having to use a 3 pole breaker.
How do you address issues with worn out panel bars that the Zinsco breakers are attached to?
there are retrofit kits with replacement busbars
I have a older challenger panel no longer insurable and instead of replacing 14" x 33" panel, I would like to replace the breakers since the buss bar should be safe.
I wouldn’t even deal with Zinsco or Federal Pacific panels. Just replace them.
Is it safe to keep a Federal panel at home and change only the breakers in it? Everyone tells me to change the whole thing for a Square D or Siemens panel.
Denis Ouellet as a qualified electrician I personally would not
@@derekstratford7937 Thanks👌👍
Denis Ouellet We commonly refer to Fed Pacific and Zinzsco as "house burners." If you can afford to change it, you should.
@@Enlightn76 Zinsco = ZINSMOKE; FPE = Fire-Producing Equipment.
As a electrician with 33 years in the trade I would tell you to replace the panel. When you have your 4 point or 40 year inspection, or you do any renovations the AHJ or insurance company will make you replace the equipment.
Hey man I looking to become an apprentice. However o am worried about asbestos in the trade. How do you deal with asbestos in service? Is there asbestos in new construction? I would greatly appreciate it if you'd reply.
I had only came across it in older houses 🏡
There are “PPE” protective equipments should be use.
D Sugrim What is the day that they really stop usin asbestos in homes/commercial? Is it just as simple as wearing a mask and maybe some protective clothing and I'll be fine? If I wear ppe will I be fine in 40 to 50 years?
@@erickdafoe2723 As long as you don't disturb it you can generally work around it. Never peel any of it to get at something and if you have to work close to it, spray it with a liberal misting of water so it's non-friable. As always, it's a good idea to wear a mask.
Is there a thickness tolerance for the stab plate that can be field tested to determine if these breakers should be used? 10:40-12:00
I like that you guys are providing product that people are in need of. However when you get asked a question and answer with a bunch of vague stuff it makes your credibility go to the floor. You either, answer the question, tell us you can't answer the question ( due to legal reasons) or simply answer that you don't know.
Are these breakers UL listed to be installed into these panels? If not buyer beware, you might burn your house down.
I'm glad someone noticed that.
Would the new replacement be UL listed insurance company look for this ?
The Federal Pacific thin type breakers will not lock into the panel like the original ones will. The Federal Pioneer type will fit on there correctly.
so good!
I saw a federal Pacific 100 amp double pole breaker for $499.00 . this is outrageous. He said affordable. It's a ripoff.
Dustin you have a federal panel at your house?
Hmmm... any delta breakers? Just curious, nothing more :)
What’s with the introduction music? It’s suppose to be about information.
I heard the whole box and dice was the problem… not simply a matter of swapping out parts and a few wires…
Thanks for the video's first of all. I am replacing a 15 amp Zinsco with a GFCI. Can I replace with a 15 amp no GFCI? I cant seem to find one that is not refurbished and I don't really trust refurbished. Please give me some advice. Also, would it be an issue replacing it with a 20 amp?
Federal Pacific stab loc breakers are dangerous so if they make them at the same standard then are theirs dangerous?
They aren't made to the same standard as back then. They are made to the new UL listings.
@@ElectricianU I recently replaced all our Federal Pacific breakers with Connecticut Electric breakers. The house was built in 61, and we purchased the house in 94. I don't know if the Federal Pacific Panel was original to the home but we never had any problems with the original stab lock breakers. After watching vidios you and others made on the Federal Pacific Panal I decided to replace the breakers. effectually I'm hoping to have the whole house rewired.
Hospitals still using FPE? Good Lord!
My public school board is just now replacing 1960s switchboards and panels.
There won't be as much of a skills gap in the electrical trade in future as compared to the other trades due to its vast popularity.
Is is a-a good-a video.
I have worked 10years as elechicken and once changed broken breaker. ABB breakers are probably just longer lasting
there is no skills gap in the electrical trade. It"s more a pay gap.
Why replace the panel if you don't have to? There are a lot of cheap asses who don't want to replace the panel. Trust me I know.
When people laugh a lot after they say something,they're generally bullshitting you.
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I’m subscribed but if you add up all the ums, it’s time consuming & irritating to listen!
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This guys keeps double talking with every question about redesign. Why cant he just answer the question
Noticed that as well. They probably don't do interviews very often and I doubt any of Dustin's questions were scripted and made aware of ahead of time for these guys to come prepared with scripted answers which was pretty obvious. It also puts them at risk of saying things that might cause negative opinions on their products from viewers or liabilities if they talk negatively/say the wrong thing about one of the companies their products are designed for (this being especially a bad possibility since anyone online can see it on top of Dustin's subscribers) so I'm sure they were mainly just trying to be careful.
@@eds6569 The meat of the answer is simple: if you need to replace a breaker (or add one) in 50yo panel that's no one has made for 30 years, what are you going to do? Replacing the panel isn't an option ($$$$) And eBay is a liability nightmare. CE has stepped up to reengineer and manufacture breakers for these old products. Yes, replacing them with something that meets modern codes would be best, but that's a very expensive and time consuming option. ("What was wrong with the old ones?" No one has made them for decades.)