Precise Scope Adjustments - The Real Gunsmith
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- Опубликовано: 8 авг 2018
- Randy talks about precise scope adjustments especially with long range scopes that have an adjustable turret system. Does your scope really have the click value that is advertised by its manufacturer?
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Thanks for the overwhelming response to this video, as well
as our other videos on The Real Gunsmith Channel! We appreciate your comments
and questions. Due to the volume of the comments and questions, some which
would take some time to answer, we just don’t have the time to respond to them
all. However many of the questions will be answered in future videos. Our first
priority is to our paying clients. Writing out long answers would take time
away from that, and I won’t put them “on hold” to post long answers here. If
you have questions about getting gun work done or a custom rifle built, contact
us at randyselby@randyscustomrifles.com. I have a wide range of prices for
custom rifles so even the “average Joe or Josephine” can get into a custom
package, just as accurate as the higher end rifles. For our detractors, we
appreciate your difference of opinion, too, but I stand by my decades of
experience. To all of you, thanks again for your overwhelming support. Stay
tuned! God bless you all. Randy and Cathy +JMJ+
you have detractors???
After adjusting my scope i hit the back of my rifle a couple of times in an effort to get the erector to move and track better. I will still take at least two or three shots and carefully analyze tracking before going further. Some guys laugh at me at the range asking what am I doing. Hopefully some of these people will watch your video and understand why i knock my rifle and verify erector spring adjustments. Randy Selby is THE MAN !!!.
Forgein made scopes are some of the best scopes you can buy. And usually for a much better price too.
Turret accuracy is one of my favorite parts about the SWFA scopes. A scope with repeatable turrets, a good reticle, and physical toughness for $300! I’ve got two and would buy a third. The glass better than you’d expect at the price too.
I just learned more about a scope then I ever have thank you you’re a very smart man
Good video Randy well explained on scopes.
Thank you Randy for your valuable testaments here. All the Best- Eddy
You're spot on again! The guts of these scopes do indeed have to settle after adjustments. The only scopes that are not included in my experience is the milrad Schmitt and Benders but they are extremely expensive. The 8541s. Semper Fi.
Excellent lesson! Thank you
Very intriguing concept Randy. Thanks for the great info sir.
Good knowledge, thank you...
Brother I’ve been watching and listening to your videos all day long thanks for what you’re doing I am learning so much God bless you
This advice is obviously based on years of experience and the best advice stated was to spend lots of time getting to know one's rifle and equipment. Too many people read and believe what's printed on the side of boxes without verifying the statement in relationship to their particular setup.
Another great piece of advice is to buy a quality American scope. While there are some great scopes manufactured in Europe, good luck with any repairs that might be needed over the years. I've dealt with Leupold and their service department is top notch, bar none, and their lifetime warranty is reassuring too. Yeah, support our American craftsman whenever possible!
Another great video, thanks for sharing your insights!
Thanks Randy, really enjoying your videos, keep em going!
The most honest review online about Long Range. I just took Howa 1500 and started messing with scope to learn best of it. One week i tried distances without messing with zeroed settings at 100 only using scope MIL dots to get a hit ans it was all fine. As soon as I startet messing with settings it all got bad on a target...
Always enjoy watching your videos. Educational as well as relaxing.
Love your videos keep up the great work, your knowledge on guns is priceless
Great videos... Really enjoy your content and knowledge👍
I have learned more about a scope in this video I’ve had guns that for two years are better and they shoot the same until I go out further distance or maybe closer and adjust it , The next day I tried it and it would be off deer season here my father-in-law he has passed But he would have made a shoot a box of shells and he would call it settling in he did not know how to explain it like you thank you for your videos I learned so much from you
This is why I have two Kahles with the AMR reticle and a Leupold with Horus.
Amen...Amen...Amen... Great words thank you for sharing your knowledge!!
the box test tells the tale.
Only if you repeat it at different ranges.
Not always. It depends on a lot of parameters. Temperature, humidity, shocks and so on. When I zero a scope (a second focal plane one) the goal is is to find the point blank range of the gun. Then only if i really want to shoot further more then i adjust the turrets values. When i turn it back to its original zero, it needs to shoot a few rounds to re-adjust the mechanics in it. It rarely comes back to its zero in one adjustment. And i use scopes in a 800/1000 $ range. Maybe 2500$ scopes will do it but i don't put such money in scopes. The riffle is more important to my eyes. Maybe i'm wrong but till now this methodology works. Better to change a scope than a riffle. I wont make reference to brands. What works is good enough for me.
Regards from a French shooter. Yep, we also like and have guns here...
🖖🏻😎🇫🇷😇🖖🏻
@@philippefrater2000 Glad to hear from a French gun owner. Myself, I use holdover.
Does it? At all temperatures?
Yup!
I agree 100% with what you said. I have kept log books for several years using the same loads and always have variances. Went to etched reticular and my log book was cut in half.
So I’m not crazy after all!
Randy, just soaking it all in. Thank you sir for the information you provide the younger generation. Us older guys like me (73) know first hand what you're talking about. One point I would like to make though...I believe the tightness one puts on their scope rings also has an affect on repeatability. Just my opinion but it seems like I have experienced that in my scopes over the years.
Thank you Mr Selby for all of your knowledge. I’ve been hand loading and ground hog hunting since I was 14 years old, I am 55 now and I’m still using the old Redfield 6-18x40 accu track scopes on my 22-250 Rem’s and .243 win’s out to 600 yds they still do fine for me but I’ve always taped on top of the dials after making adjustments. I really like the old Redfield scopes that was made back when they where top of the line.
That's where Don Burris got his start, at Redfield.
Randy, I have an old Weaver 4 power scope that was bought in the late 60s that I still shoot with today and it is probably the clearest, most dependable, most accurate scope I have ever owned and it wasn't a real expensive scope. I have trashed several scopes that were suppose to be good scopes that turned out to be just terrible optics and would never hold position because of poor quality material. And now I use Leopold or Zeiss, however, they can have their problems too. They don't make things like they use to.
People think I’m ocd, but I go to the range and verify accuracy before every hunt. I wasn’t raised with guns, so I had no one to teach me this kind of stuff. When I discovered that my point of impact changed after an 80 degree temperature drop, I started going out every time. The same people that think I’m ocd haven’t verified 0 since the first time they set it, and all of them have missed shots while I have not. There’s something about hunters with big egos, and insecurities, that is way more common than I would have guessed.
*gets a Leupold advertisement on this video
As I've came across this gentleman I like his content. Unabashed. I only got 600 yards to work with and I hit it with nikons, leupold, swfa, ATN, vortex. None more than a 500.00 scope , so why I lust for the mark5 5x25 and Vari x iii 8.5x25, I'll probably won't get to shoot a mile unless I travel
100% accurate. One of the best rifleman I know always says “Don’t touch the dial! Use the etchings!”
I agree I know most people don’t care for Tasco World Class scopes but I own 3 on rifles now. I’ve had great luck with them. I have a Bushnell on my 25-06 it’s 6.5-20-40 ADJ. I really like it. I can’t afford the high dollar scopes don’t get me wrong I’m not putting down any other optics I just like Tasco. Great video sir GOD BLESS.
scope adjustment is basically hit and miss. some trac better than others. Low end scopes work just fine at short distances where one doesn't have to make adjustments. I have always found that, say, if I need to move an inch to the left at 100yds, I would adjust 6 clicks left and then 2 clicks right. This has helped to "settle" the scope better. Then I leave them alone. But I have had scopes that if you moved 2 clicks the POI on the might be 5". Leupold makes great scopes that are reasonably priced. That's about all I use now.
I have a Vortex Razor Gen II on a Savage Model 10 Stealth 6.5 CREEDMOOR and it rarely misses. Only upon operator error does it miss out to 1,500 yards. That includes many many shots beyond 800 yards.
From my point of view, you should spend more on ammon on the range than on the rifle. A cheap rifle will in most cases spread less than the untrained shooter. And, my scopes are mostly more expencive than my rifles. I am from Sweden, and got mostly German or Austrian optics. Finnish rifles. One Remington though, for the range.
I totally agree, those that say they dont need to train, because they are skilled enough, are just cheating themself.
Love your videos Randy!!
thanks awesome
Well said ........ I will summarize ..... quit cranking on the turrents!!!! (Especially cheaper scopes)
I totally agree with you. I like to zero at 200 Meters and use the hash marks for hold over and windage. Also I prefer a first/front focal plane so that way, no matter what magnification I am on or change to, I don't have to do any math to calculate range. I just use the the hash marks or dots and there we go because they don't change when I zoom in or out, and that's one less factor to consider when figuring my shooting solution. And, now that more optics's manufacturers are finally getting on board with first/front focal plane the options are growing and prices are coming down.
I would love to have a Remington 700 SPS Varmint .308win with that beautiful 26" heavy stainless barrel and an Athlon Ares ETR front focal plane. But that's all out of my price range for now. I have to get my old service injury back under control so I can get back to work. Hopefully I will be finally getting my discharge corrected and see a doctor at the VA to get my dissability rating because I'm afraid my injury has decided I'm done. At least they'll pay for my gunsmithing course and I should be able to handle doing that at my own pace and produce some beautiful firearms for my customers.
Great video. Thank you for sharing some of your knowledge and expertise with us. Semper Fi 🇺🇸
I absolutely agree test your equipment most guys i know wanna pick up there riffle a few days before deer season take a couple shots and call it good they probably dont shoot 20 rnds a year out of there riffle
Another issue is weather. A scope that works well may fail mechanically in brutally cold weather -- like the one I had fail on me at only 20 degrees, once. All these problems are nicely solved by fixed reticle scopes, as you mention on your website. I think you're very wise in pointing that out.
From Cathy, The Real Gunsmith's Wife: ruclips.net/video/69RtR-kwg5A/видео.html I took this video a bit over a month ago. The wind was blowing, hard, towards me. Yet watching the clouds move, every which way, got no closer. I found out from a friend that an hour later when she was in the area the formation was the same.
It seemed to me, the more I watched, a good example of what the wind is doing down range [and close range]. We just don't see it. All the apps in the world can't show what these clouds showed that day: Wind is not always one direction, even in the same place.
I ran into this exact problem this week. I made an adjustment and couldnt get it to group after that. Before it was shooting 1" 10 shot groups.
Love your videos, but I love my Weaver Classics V9 and V10.
Hello, nice video and education. Now back in the day the military snipers used fixed scopes whether they be 4X or 8X. They probably agreed with you when saying when adjusting the scope, you are messing with the accuracy.
Thank you.....
Glad I bought a Leupold with CDS, I love their warrantee. Hopefully never need to use it. 😎👍
I do like the etched scopes. I don't see as well thru Leopold as I do Burris or Vortex
Only the S+B scopes used by the usmc on all of their weapon systems has got what it takes for precision shooting regardless. These scopes are the best in the world, and are extremely expensive. My Marines only use the very best optics in the world. The m 82 50 cals have these optics and they're absolutely remarkable, out to 2000 meters.
Glad our service men and women are only getting the BEST! Thanks to all who serve!
older days we took the turret cap off an take a dime an make adjustments with it an when you were done you took the dime an tap on the top of the turret to help try and settle it
Had a Navy SEAL Commander tell me that this is 100% legit solution.
Ryan Poeppel I still have an old weaver K-12 on a 22-250 that I still use the dime on.
100% agreement with everything here. Give me a simple low power accurate scope like a good name like Leupold over an average quality high power scope with all the big selling points that they often come with these days. Less is MORE! I would rather shoot through a good peep sight than one of those in virtually every circumstance. Less is more...
Nightforce scopes are awesome, but their flag ship scope the ATACR is made in Japan not here. There are a lot of scopes out there today that are pretty capable of hanging with a NF too.
So what if it’s made in Japan? Japan makes excellent optics
@@chevyon37s That was my point.
Will you do a video on 30 06 sometime
Not planning to at this time. There has been more written on the 30-06 than any other cartridge and continues to be so.
Thanks for watching.
There's one problem with that buying Scopes me in this country all of the glass of most Scopes are made in China. Most of the Scopes are made in China now even the higher name brands. But some of the other brands have better warranties then the ones that are quote unquote made in the US.Shepherd is one of the few that is made in the US anymore but their glass comes from Japan vortex scopes either are made in China or they are assembled in the US with Chinese glass
I like the idea of the etched reticle, and couldn't agree more with spending range time. Change the elevation, temp. Or any other atmospheric and you MV changes and your drops are now different. My next build will be an etched first focal plane reticle and a tried and true dope chart.
Dope?
G'day Randy. I like your vids & agree with most of what you say however, no man should agree totally with any other man, at least for prudence sake.
On this vid, you spoke about scope tracking accuracy &, I will say that with many scopes, you are correct in your assessment however, there are definitely very high quality military/tactical grade scopes which will absolutely track perfectly & repeatedly.
You mention a 1/4" grouping rifle. Here is where I think some of a large misunderstanding begins.
In reality, there are so few true 1/4" grouping rifles that, I think it fair to to state that, they should be considered almost as rare as hens teeth.
Three shots on target is statistically grossly insufficient to determine a rifles grouping potential.
Rifle ballistic group analyses have been commissioned by many militaries around the world. One of the most thorough being the Chinese military. They have determined that a minimum reliable number of shots to determine group size potential is 4 groups of 5 shots with, 4 groups of 7 shots proving to be statistically ideal with regard to realistic testing parameters. To cut a long explanation short, a 3 shot group of 1/4" will prove to reliably group at about 1.2" to 1.5" for any & all consecutive shots.
For all intents & purposes, the 1/4" rifle exists primarily within the realm of a belief in rocking horse dung.
Maybe You ought to have Randy build You a rifle.
Mr. Selby, What do you think about the Leupold Boone and Crocket reticle…. I do not shoot past 450 to 500 yards on any big game animals……..
The finer sections of the reticle is too fine to see in poor light conditions, otherwise fine.
Thanks for watching.
where i live ive been telling them for years the least scope they should buy for their rifle is a 3-9x40 or 50 varix 3 leupold and they say i only paid 400 for the rifle and that scope costs just as much then they put a 69 buck tasco on it and realize they cant see and or hit where they want to then eventually it ends up with a leupold on it i am referring to rifles for hunting not target shooting but if you spend more for the scope usually you want go wrong
You just described my father in law! He will spend a $1,000. On a gun and put a $69. Scope on it then go hunting and wonder why he can’t see out if it or hit anything he shoots at! Better to spend too much and get what you need then not enough and not be good for anything at all
I don't know if its really helping but I always overshoot a click then come back. if I need to add 5 clicks right I will go 6 right then left 1 then tap on the turrets. shoot a group to let it settle in then a group for record.
Hi there. I just found your channel and subscribed after watching a couple of your videos. VERY informative. You obviously have a great deal of experience. I have a question for you. I keep hearing different opinions on weather or not barrels should be broken in or not. Even the folks who do advocate breaking in barrels can't agree on the procedure of how to do it.
It's frustrating and confusing.
Could you please make a video on that subject? Is it necessary or just a type of myth? If breaking in a barrel to get the best accuracy out of it is necessary, then what exactly is the proper way to do it?
Can it be done with just a boresnake or does it have to be done with cleaning rod, brush and patches?
Does it also have to be done for rimfire barrels as well as centerfire?
Or is it all just a load of cod's wallop?
This seems to be the biggest reason to keep your scope zeroed to a single distance then LEARN the trajectory for the load worked up. Develop ones own DOPE (which does change per wear).
You'd have to read a lot of articles and /or take a lot of classes to learn what Randy discusses in 11min. Thanks ,Randy
Well I can understand what he is saying. If you won't american made leupold has a good scope. Nightforce is made over seas along with other top made optics. There is several scope that will track and repeat like the viper pst that is made in the Philippines or the swfa ss. I have both of those and have never had to settle them. My main scope is a pm2 some people say they are expensive but in reality they are about the same as a leupold mk6. I got to play with some of the new us optics and the glass kinda sucks.
When you buy a higher end scope you pay for quality control. It's all about tracking and your turrets the box test never lies! If you are on a budget, I'd look closely at SWFA's scopes from what I've seen they work, I do have one. I hadn't had any issues with it. For the money It's a lot of scope. It passes a box test and ladder test.
Eggomania86 ladder test? I was under the impression that was for load development and doesn't involve scope adjustments.
swfa agreed the best value on the market
do they pass the stair test? (thrown down stairs and still hold POI?)
Not to make light of scope adjustments, but possition and how it affects recoil, and then understanding how changes in possition and or whether or not you are using a sling and in whether you are prone, sitting, kneeling or standing is vitally important to your point of impact. Sure shooting from bench has less variables, but point of impact can shift considerably, say if the weather is warm and you are wearing a thin shirt, so you tuck the stock in tight to the pocket near your collar bone, and if you're right handed, that can shift your P.O.I. up to 2" left compared to when you were wearing a heavy jacket in much colder weather. Now if you are in the field and attempting a long shot with a sling from the prone or sitting possition, and your rifle dope for long range was developed for a rifle shot only on the bench, and not with a sling, you're probably going to miss high. This is why all position shooting practice, that mimics field shooting is so necessary. JMOFWIW
What’s your opion of vortex scopes as far as adjustable I find no scope retinal moves as described like 1/8. Or 1/4 inch. Adjustments
Leave much to be desired and from feed back from clients that have sprung for them, the customer service on repairs leaves a bad taste.
Thanks for watching.
This may be the case on some scopes but predominately on lower end scopes... Not all scopes actually have 1/4 Moa clicks some are some aren’t they round the click high or low so to speak.. actual 1/4 Moa is .267 inches.. Some manufactures just make it .25 which is t correct at distance. Leupold scopes do settle and that is a pain cause they do not track and correct fully when adjusting. The erector springs and adjustment on many modern high quality scopes track up and down and side to side they way they should it’s the shooter that is the wild card.
Watch the tracking videos on US Optic . It impress me.
Hey randy thanks for the great videos. I have a question, what is your thoughts on anti can’t devices for scopes in somewhat longer range shooting say from 400-700 or so yds?
A good idea, such as a level. Thanks for watching!
Hi Randy, the scope video was so awesome. I want to buy a night force or a ziess scope. I know I've always used top of the line scopes on my rifles I shoot a 338 and I do not need to shoot more than 300 yds 400 max thanks. John danbury wisc
This I think doesn't apply to all scope mechanisms, also checking your guns accuracy at 1000 yards is probably not the greatest way to tell if scope is effecting accuracy. You should shoot 5 or 10 shots then 5 or 10 at your calculated adjustment. To many variables at 1000 yards to compare with a 100 yard shot. Really like your videos.
How long do you have before the scope settles in, if that is a question that could be answered, im not sure it can?
I've found it varies by situation to situation, rifle, and scope. So not a firm answer.
Thanks for watching.
FYI I appreciate all of your info. However all of my NF atacr’s FFP are made in Japan at optical light works; typically I will spend as much or more on my glass and mount versus the rifle alone. A FFP atacr 5-25x56 NF will run about 3300.00 w/ an H59 Reticle. A SCHmidt and Bender PM2 w/ an H59 will run about $3500.00. My Leupolds have all been Mark 6’s 3-18x44 inside a Geissele Precision Mount. While they work well, the turrets aren’t even half as good as the turrets on my NF. For Minute of MAN the Leupold is fine. For 1 MOA at 1000 Yards I will take the NF or the S&B every single time....JMHO
What do you think of vortex scopes
Many of my clients and I have had poor results with them. If they have problems, which they seem to do, getting repair has been problematic. I don't fancy foreign made scopes. I stick with Leupold and Burris.
Thanks for watching.
If you have time ? I have a question about my Remington 700 sendero in 300 win mag. The ocl with a bullet compensater is 3.895 . We load 25 thousands off that . Is there a distance amount that needs to be inside the case neck to be safe . Ps. My friend is the one who is reloading for me I know hardly nothing about it. Also I have had to take my gun in twice now do to bullets getting stuck in the chamber. Remington has paid to get it fixed both times. Now the ammo that gets stuck is all brands not just reloads. Hornady, federal, Remington, and HSM trophy gold.
Randy, I would need to look over your rifle and some rounds of all the brands you are having trouble with. There are just too many variables. And I can't diagnose them without seeing the rifle or ammo. I'd be glad to check it out for you. You can email at randyselby@randyscustomrifles.com.
The Real Gunsmith thank you
Speaking on your 100y to 1000y group comparison.... I think a lot of people dont do load development or check it at distance. They shoot a good group at 100 and never bother to see if it's a load that holds together at longer ranges. I had a load with my 308 that shot .200-.300 at 100, but had an SD of 28 and wouldnt do but 1moa at distance.
Love the videos, keep putting them out!
This is off topic but I was wondering in a future video, if you know anything about the 280 dubiel magnum and if you've ever had any experience with the cartridge. @therealgunsmith
Thanks for the question. And thanks for watching our channel. The .280 Dubiel, performance wise is very near to the 7 Rem. Mag. You could use that load data to start.
Good shooting!
Christmas tree articles in the first focal plane are what every rifleman and hunter should at least familiarize themselves with. You won't go back!
IOR Valdada is ABSOLUTE.
I dunno - I think modern manufacturing has changed this quite a bit. I have low end Athons that track beautifully - shoot tiny groups anywhere I dial them.
Off subject, could I ask you about your fan on your wood stove. I’m interested in getting one . Thanks for your time!
It is one of several styles of Ecofan. It's great all of the time, but especially when we loose electricity, we still have that fan to push heat towards the back part of the house. Just Google it and you'll find them.
Cathy, The Real Gunsmith's Wife.
Thanks Mrs. Cathy, I appreciate your time.
I’d like to come set talk with you sir. You’ve forgotten more than I’ll never know I’m sure.
Hi You have many great videos. Do you think u.s. optics has good adjustment repeat ability?
That is their claim. None of my clients or I use them.
@@TheRealGunsmith hi thank you.
I bought one a year ago, it’s on its 2nd repair right now . Internal parallax post the first time and erector assembly the 2nd. Every400-500 rds the thing shits out on me. Kinda ridiculous for a 2100 dollar optic ....
Shooters watching too many sniper movies think it is cool to spin the turrets like a roulette wheel have no clue. Yes, it can work with $3,000 optics, a spotter, wind indicator and ballistics calculator. Otherwise, makes much more sense to use ballistic reticle w/ range finder.
This is a problem I solve altogether by not having scopes. From 7mm-08 on down I shoot iron sights, don't expect to hunt past my ability for that especially in the East Coast. 150 yds is about the max. for me, and I'd like to keep it shorter if possible. But then again am in the minority according to mainstream American manufacturers, how many offer brands new guns with iron sights? Does the scope industry have an interest that it stays that way? Food for thought....BTW my eyes ain't getting younger either, I'll resist the scope for as long as I can.
Boris Buliak true 1 to 6 scopes are perfect for hunting ranges.
Dindo Nuffin i succumbed to the "tactical" craze years ago. I took my beretta storm carbine in 9mm to a gunsmith because i wanted the sight sighted in an all. Long story short, i should've left it with iron sights. It was more accurate less weight less complications and in the end less hassles with the "gunsmith" . Thank you for the advice tho, i can also visit the ophthalmologist and screw the scope and the whole industry. People hunted 200 yrs ago without one, ill live without one.
Dindo Nuffin i forgot to mention red dot sight
I put the scope with the gold ring on my rifles, the one who backs up their product for a lifetime regardless who owned it before or after! LEUPOLD! and its made in America
Michael Thompson Used to be the "gold standard," but their quality control for anything but the very top of the price range is going downhill *FAST!*
In my 60 years of hunting and collecting rifles you are spot on! Have owned scopes that cost twice what the rifle did but for the average hunter they can do no better then buy at least a middle grade Leupold scope!
Hi, What do you think of the new Valdada scopes?
Mr. Smith, I am humbled that you answer my questions. You and your wife are making great videos. I am sure you manufacture excellent rifles..Your common sense approach to your craft is remarkable.I have watched many "scope review" videos. It looks like the "scope of the day" is just that.Your method of test appears correct.I don't see this method employed by the "experts". I am sure this "method" is too simple for many "experts'.I posted my question after watching many reviews of this scope. I share your bias regarding American made products. I know the Valdada is not an American made product. The PRB ( precision rifle blog) has given it an excellent review.
I am so much wanting to know what you think of this scope. Again Thank you for putting up with me- sam
Every scope has it's pluses and minuses. I don't endorse foreign products. I am a US business and I prefer to use US made products, keeping as many jobs as possible to keep this great country going.
One thing, no matter the scope is it should not be relied on to the exclusion of the accuracy of the rifle or the experience of the hunter. And forget "clubs", which make the rifle unbalanced.
@@TheRealGunsmith hi thanks. What do you mean by "clubs" making the rifle unbalanced?
What do you think about zeiss & Swarovski scopes Mr. Selby?
They are quality scopes. However I don't spend my money on foreign optics. Buy American. I compare them, when they come in on client's rifles, to the Leupold scopes and I'd put the Leupold up to them, any day.
I have heard nightmare stories about Zeiss and Swarovski being sent back for warranty work and taking forever. Never an issue with Leupold.
Thanks for watching and may you and yours stay well and safe.
Thank you for your opinion and response. I have sent 2 zeiss back in for repair. And turnaround time was less than 2 weeks. And happy hunting sir
I own a number of Vortex and Leupold scopes, and have a set of Zeiss binoculars. And the Zeiss binos are absolutely fantastic. I find the Vortex stuff to be GOOD for the money, not great. Good for hunting, target use etc. and my Leupold scopes to be a bit better than Vortex. Mostly due to the build quality of the exterior of the scope, and only a little bit better in actual optical quality. Also having looked through friend’s Swarovski scopes they certainly another step above Leupold in actual optic quality, with an average scope build.
not sure if I understand sir are you talking about tracking or group size. but thank you for the video I will watch it again I may have missed something.
Yogi Bear , kinda both... how once you adjust your turrets it has a minor to abundant effect on the next group size as the adjustments settle in over the next 3 to 5 rounds. Once you move the externals of the scope...it takes a few rounds for them to shake in tight.
Though the expert didnt touch on it, it's been a common practice by a lot of people over the years to " help it along inside " by turning an extra click or 2 past you extended spot the turn back and or wrapping the turrets a couple of times with the dime used to adjust the turrets to mechanically settle the mechanisms.
Kinda wordy but I hope it helps, Crawford out
It's kinda like shooting w your heart beat. For close in shooting it's not very noticable but that 1/16 " at 100yds moves to at least 1.6" at 1000yds. So you try to time triggers pills in between heart beats. 1 bump of the heart pumps blood and fills the veins causing a movement the 2nd bump sucks blood in and cause a movement. You dont see it hardly at all up close but at 1000yds ot 1500yds it's a pretty good bit of movement.
I own several Leupold and Swarovski scopes. The optical quality of the Swarovski scopes are far superior to the Leupold. Leupold scopes are not made in America. They are assembled in America. Some of the components are made in China. I own several Swarovski Z6 2.5-15X44 rifle scopes. To me they are the ultimate rifle scope.
So I am glad that we capturing the anecdotal knowledge but Randy never provides any data. Maybe that is for others to do...take 5 similar scopes, same rifle same ammo and crank them all up, down, right, left and record POI and group size. Let’s do 3 groups for each to allow the scope to “settle”. Then we would actually know something rather than believe something.
I understand this is a lot of effort but for most of us we can still do something similar for our favorite rigs. For me, I run FFP with MOA reticles and as Randy suggests, I often hold off the reticle rather than messing with the knobs.
BTW, my pet peeve with youtube...did Randy get paid for mentioning Night Force and Leupold (twice). Come on, just say it...I got paid or not when you do a product endorsement
From The Real Gunsmith's Wife, Cathy: NO ONE pays Randy to give his opinion, good or bad, on their product. He calls it like he experiences it.
From The Real Gunsmith: Everyone needs to test their own scope system and use it to the advantage [or possible disadvantage]. And Cathy is right. I don't accept payment from any company for a good review. If I think it's good I say so. If it's not, I say so.
God only knows that these days people can get "data" anywhere, in fact you can't escape it. What you can't get anywhere is Randy's experience, which by the way he's sharing for FREE. His integrity speaks for itself in what he does and says and his great following on this channel is the best testament to that.
Do people really not think about this stuff? One would think its common knowledge. Anything mechanically adjusted is going to have some sort of backlash or free movement and things will always need to settle. Especially in a environment where frequent shocks are given to said mechanical equipment.
pwilly7, young folks (less than 45yrs old) don't have a clue. Especially concrete dwellers. They believe the hype.
I sometimes think we must be related. Our experience has led us to the same conclusions. We now have 1 moa rifles for $300. then we put a $2500 scope on it. Scopes are complex optical systems. Rifles are tools. Keep it as simple as possible.
All due respect......... In the last 10 years I’ve made over 25 shots on ground hogs from over 500 yards to 881. Too many to count in the 250-499 yard range. Every single one of them by cranking on the external adjustment (elevation only). Never an issue, never had to send a scope back.
Etched reticles make no changes (obviously!!) for environmental conditions. I have seen a particular setting be right on at 400 yards...... 1 hour later, when the temp drop and the air gets heavy, I’m 2 feet low.
There is NO BETER ACTIVITY to learn your gun/equipment than groundhog hunting. It’s real! Where do you hold an etched reticle on a target at 467????
To anyone wondering-You bring your etched reticle with me on LR groundhogs you’ll be ordering a scope with external adjustments the minute you get home
Btw- I have a Nikon, Burris, and Vortex. Most shots made with the Mexican built Vortex. USA company however!
I certainly don't mean to be disrespectful or anything, but I don't understand this. I mean if you use a piece of shit scope what do you expect? Also have to disagree with him about buying scopes that are made only in the USA. Swarovski Z8, Zeiss Victory, Leica Magnus, Kahles to name a few are far superior.
most nightforce scopes are made in japan ....
nothing wrong with Japanese Glass
Most of the best scopes are made in another country. 🇩🇪
darkstreak Aia Schmidt Bender
US optic all the way
bill adams US optics are great as well I had a scope from US optics mounted on a custom 300 win mag rifle for high power competitions. I just ordered a Kahles 624i my expectations are very high so hopefully it will be worth it.
Primary Arms field test the scope reticles before releasing them to the public. they have very competant engineers designing usable reticles.
Dindo Nuffin , for sure their etched reticles are pretty spot in for the calibers they state. The platinum line is on up there in repeatability of click adjustments also. For the price and application they compete favorably in my opinion
Swarovski no problem in repeatability you get what you pay for .
Why nothing said about schmidt bender optics.
best scopes in the world. Using the best glass
They are one of the best repeatable when cranking on the knobs, but he is speaking the truth.
My Steiner M5xi has better glass than my Bender PMII. My Nightforce ATACR has better contrast than my Bender, also. My Leupold M5 isn't better, but just as good. I like my Bender and plan on keeping it now that I have it, but I doubt I'll ever spend the money on another one.
It's been shown in tests that even the S&B, though excellent in tracking, will not track accurately every single time, though it is better than most. Nightforce had 100 percent tracking on 2 scopes in a test you can find online, and a Valdada as well. If it's a vital shot you're taking (hunting, or LE sniping), you probably would be better off not relying on your turrets, contrary to the oft repeated myth that you can't be as accurate using holdover.
I'm curious what is considered in accurate what is acceptable and what is not. Any thing under 1.% who can dope better than 1.% . If your scope is repeatable to 1.0 % that's less that the thickness of your cross hairs. Or even 2% for that.
Meanwhile, guys like me will sight our rifles ( mine's a 24" barreled .30-06) for 300 yards. I know the dope in 50-yard increments out to 400..although I like a no more than 5" rise/drop window..and once it's sighted in and grouping well, I leave it the hell alone. For slobs, who need to shoot something living at 600,700 even 800 yards..well, who cares what they do, they aren't real hunters
wow. its not 1950 anymore. now a days you can get a scope for 3 400 dollar that repeats perfectly. every time. and with good glass. and no, there are no scopes made in "this country".
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