That was a great explanation on the subject. I often weigh black powder and substitute charges and have gotten hundreds of angry comments from people about it.
I’ve shot competitive black powder for over 40 years. I always weigh charges when working up a load for a particular firearm on a bench for group. Personal experience has always been that each firearm will group with a specific powder charge, granulation and bullet combination. Once done, no need to change it unless one of those variables change. When loading pre-measured tubes or cartridges, I use a powder thrower set to the specific weight for that arm. I would never use adjustable powder measures because they are so inaccurate.
I'm getting back into muzzleloaders and I appreciate all the info you guys are putting out. I used to do volume charges as I only had one loader with markings so I used the same one to load all my speed loaders. Didn't think much about it back then, but I was able to get decent groups with my Kodiak and powerbelts. I'm lucky to get a 100 yard shot on deer in MI, which is why I like my 30-30, 350L, and 12 gauge so much, but I miss shooting a muzzleloader. Hunting Elk, Moose, ect, is on the bucket list and using a muzzleloader would be great since it's one of the few guns that can take such a huge array of game depending on charge and bullet vs buying new rifles in different calibers. I used to have over 30 guns and different calibers, but I've been down sizing over that last ten years. I'd rather have a few with a lot of ammo, ect, vs many guns with only a box or two of ammo for each. Again, appreciate all the work and info y'all are putting out as it inspires me to want to learn more and do more research.
A bench powder scale is always the most accurate measure . Weight can be precise, and volume measurements are not precise. I use volumetric measurements for my T7 loads and accuracy is good. But a new LRX is in the future and it will ALL be scale weighed.👍thx for the advice
i bought every volumetric black powder measuring device I could find on the market. None of them measure BH 209 accurately dur to the fact the granuals are smaller then black powder so you get more powder in the measuring device. I would pour 80 by the bines on the measurer, then weigh BH 209. The difference was 8 to 12 grains differenc. When weighed the weight was 92 grains my weight when80 grains wa measured. So I weigh all my powder loads now.
Although black powder can be measured by weight, when you measure black powder for black powder Firearms your measuring it by volume. Because a powder flask will measure the same amount of black powder in 2 fg as it will for 3 fg, and the 3fg will still way more even though it's the same volume.
I just purchased some Blackhorn 209 ,went right to my power scale. Measured 120 gn by volume and weighed it for an average of 98.2 gn by weght. According to Hogdon conversion chart it should weigh 94 gn .Weighed 110,100,and 90 gn all way above accordingly. Call Hogdon they told me not to weigh it just use volume it will be more consistent. I do a lot of reloading for long range and I'm just having a hard time accepting that answer. Since you all are the muzzle loader experts I would like you to speak to Hogdon directly and give me your opinion on this. Thanks Frank !
BPI sold me the .45 accura V2 and the V2 LR both with a 1:28 twist then stopped production of the .45 cal power belt bullets except for the ELRs in 45 cal which require a 1:24 or faster twist. A very crappy way to treat their customers. I contacted Thor bullets they are gonna bail us out but it will be late 2023 or early 2024 before the R&D is completed. I bought the B-14 several years ago and I will never buy from BPI again!
A customer service guy for hodgdon told me to never weigh blackhorn by weight only by volume I said that doesn't make much sense since you can measure more accurately then with volume but he kept insisting almost to the point of arguing with me that I was doing it the wrong way and was trying to tell me measuring by volume is way more consistent then measuring by weight which I don't see how I just pretty much ended the conversation there I can't see how volume is more consistent then weigh when I can measure to the 1/100th of a grain with my scale
What about Triple Seven (et al) pellets? I have 30 grain pellets, Can I use them safely as 30 grain loads as in my Uberti Colt Walker revolver? Thanks, good video. Tom KC3QAC
Make your own powder and you don't have to deal with all this. Just compare the weight of a certain volume of factory black powder and match that weight with home made powder. There will be somewhere around a 20% difference. Then add 20% to the load of home made powder and you have your load. My gun powder is much cleaner burning than most sugar based powder you can buy now.
So if I want to use Black Horn 209 for my CVA Wolf what would the weight be if I wanted to use 100 grains of Black Horn 209 by weight and not volumetric
If you wanted to use the weight equivalent of a 100 grain volumetric charge, you would need to use 70 grains of Blackhorn 209 measured by weight. 100 grains of Blackhorn 209 by volume = 70 grains of Blackhorn 209 by weight
I have a good question to ask you. One time I was told I could use 140 grains by weight for my CVA Paramount pro 50 cal when I first got it. I got this information from CVA but I was all sudden they changed amount to 120 grains by weight. I have been using 140 for almost 2 years now. The question is do I stop or do I continue.
The 129 grain max charge is for magnum muzzleloaders the cvs paramount is a super magnum which means it can handle the larger 140 grain loads I even thought I read where a guy was using 160 grains of blackhorn 209 out of his paramount
Watch some videos on what it takes to damage a muzzle loading firearm. I don't believe you will be able to damage the firearm with that amount of powder. I've watched someone fill the barrel with powder and put the bullet on top of it where you could see the bullet. It didn't damage anything when the rifle was fired.
You guys do realize that grains is measured by weight and dispensed by volume right? If you ever reloaded ammo before, you would know this. There is no “volumetric grain”, it’s not the same as comparing fluid ounces to ounce’s in weight. If your volumetric powder measure doesn’t dispense what is shown, then you either aren’t making enough room (like not tapping your powder flash) or your flask’s measurement is wrong.
Density is the key thing you are not understanding. Smokeless is not the same. Different density will fill a volume measurement device to different levels. If you have your volume measurement device set to 50 grains but your powder is not dense lets say home made screened powder vs pressed corned black powder then you're devise would overflow. More dense less room less dense more room. Measuring by weight it does not matter the brand but will fill a specific space un- evenly +or minus.
@@randytricker8585 I forgot about that. I know that there’s a volumetric difference between Goex Black powder and Triple seven because I discovered it myself not too long ago when I was making paper cartridges. I appreciate the correction and I’ll edit my comment so that we don’t get anyone hurt. Now just so we’re clear, I am fully aware that smokeless and black powder are *not* the same and shouldn’t be treated anywhere near as such.
That was a great explanation on the subject. I often weigh black powder and substitute charges and have gotten hundreds of angry comments from people about it.
I’ve shot competitive black powder for over 40 years. I always weigh charges when working up a load for a particular firearm on a bench for group. Personal experience has always been that each firearm will group with a specific powder charge, granulation and bullet combination. Once done, no need to change it unless one of those variables change. When loading pre-measured tubes or cartridges, I use a powder thrower set to the specific weight for that arm. I would never use adjustable powder measures because they are so inaccurate.
Great info Darren. I use Triple 7 and I reduce by 15%. Say a 100 GR load I as 100 x .15= 15 gr So a 100 = 85 gr of triple 7 is 100 gr of black powder.
Thanks! I just got a CVA Accura MR-X with Blackhorn 209 and this information will help!!
I'm getting back into muzzleloaders and I appreciate all the info you guys are putting out. I used to do volume charges as I only had one loader with markings so I used the same one to load all my speed loaders. Didn't think much about it back then, but I was able to get decent groups with my Kodiak and powerbelts. I'm lucky to get a 100 yard shot on deer in MI, which is why I like my 30-30, 350L, and 12 gauge so much, but I miss shooting a muzzleloader. Hunting Elk, Moose, ect, is on the bucket list and using a muzzleloader would be great since it's one of the few guns that can take such a huge array of game depending on charge and bullet vs buying new rifles in different calibers. I used to have over 30 guns and different calibers, but I've been down sizing over that last ten years. I'd rather have a few with a lot of ammo, ect, vs many guns with only a box or two of ammo for each. Again, appreciate all the work and info y'all are putting out as it inspires me to want to learn more and do more research.
Good info. I shoot Blackhorn in my in-lines and use volumetric, but in the cartridge guns with either Blackhorn or black I use weight.
A bench powder scale is always the most accurate measure . Weight can be precise, and volume measurements are not precise. I use volumetric measurements for my T7 loads and accuracy is good. But a new LRX is in the future and it will ALL be scale weighed.👍thx for the advice
i bought every volumetric black powder measuring device I could find on the market. None of them measure BH 209 accurately dur to the fact the granuals are smaller then black powder so you get more powder in the measuring device. I would pour 80 by the bines on the measurer, then weigh BH 209. The difference was 8 to 12 grains differenc. When weighed the weight was 92 grains my weight when80 grains wa measured. So I weigh all my powder loads now.
Although black powder can be measured by weight, when you measure black powder for black powder Firearms your measuring it by volume. Because a powder flask will measure the same amount of black powder in 2 fg as it will for 3 fg, and the 3fg will still way more even though it's the same volume.
I just purchased some Blackhorn 209 ,went right to my power scale. Measured 120 gn by volume and weighed it for an average of 98.2 gn by weght. According to Hogdon conversion chart it should weigh 94 gn .Weighed 110,100,and 90 gn all way above accordingly. Call Hogdon they told me not to weigh it just use volume it will be more consistent. I do a lot of reloading for long range and I'm just having a hard time accepting that answer. Since you all are the muzzle loader experts I would like you to speak to Hogdon directly and give me your opinion on this. Thanks Frank !
I would suggest a long drop tube if you’re not using one?
BPI sold me the .45 accura V2 and the V2 LR both with a 1:28 twist then stopped production of the .45 cal power belt bullets except for the ELRs in 45 cal which require a 1:24 or faster twist. A very crappy way to treat their customers. I contacted Thor bullets they are gonna bail us out but it will be late 2023 or early 2024 before the R&D is completed. I bought the B-14 several years ago and I will never buy from BPI again!
A customer service guy for hodgdon told me to never weigh blackhorn by weight only by volume I said that doesn't make much sense since you can measure more accurately then with volume but he kept insisting almost to the point of arguing with me that I was doing it the wrong way and was trying to tell me measuring by volume is way more consistent then measuring by weight which I don't see how I just pretty much ended the conversation there I can't see how volume is more consistent then weigh when I can measure to the 1/100th of a grain with my scale
What do you consider long range 🤔
We typically are talking about anything 250 yards and beyond and the further the shot, the more dramatic the effect.
What about Triple Seven (et al) pellets? I have 30 grain pellets, Can I use them safely as 30 grain loads as in my Uberti Colt Walker revolver? Thanks, good video. Tom KC3QAC
You bought what would be called a primitive firearm but you want modern powder in it. Learn to make paper cartridges and use them. It's fun.
Make your own powder and you don't have to deal with all this. Just compare the weight of a certain volume of factory black powder and match that weight with home made powder. There will be somewhere around a 20% difference. Then add 20% to the load of home made powder and you have your load. My gun powder is much cleaner burning than most sugar based powder you can buy now.
So if I want to use Black Horn 209 for my CVA Wolf what would the weight be if I wanted to use 100 grains of Black Horn 209 by weight and not volumetric
If you wanted to use the weight equivalent of a 100 grain volumetric charge, you would need to use 70 grains of Blackhorn 209 measured by weight. 100 grains of Blackhorn 209 by volume = 70 grains of Blackhorn 209 by weight
I have a good question to ask you. One time I was told I could use 140 grains by weight for my CVA Paramount pro 50 cal when I first got it. I got this information from CVA but I was all sudden they changed amount to 120 grains by weight. I have been using 140 for almost 2 years now. The question is do I stop or do I continue.
The 129 grain max charge is for magnum muzzleloaders the cvs paramount is a super magnum which means it can handle the larger 140 grain loads I even thought I read where a guy was using 160 grains of blackhorn 209 out of his paramount
Watch some videos on what it takes to damage a muzzle loading firearm. I don't believe you will be able to damage the firearm with that amount of powder. I've watched someone fill the barrel with powder and put the bullet on top of it where you could see the bullet. It didn't damage anything when the rifle was fired.
You guys do realize that grains is measured by weight and dispensed by volume right? If you ever reloaded ammo before, you would know this. There is no “volumetric grain”, it’s not the same as comparing fluid ounces to ounce’s in weight. If your volumetric powder measure doesn’t dispense what is shown, then you either aren’t making enough room (like not tapping your powder flash) or your flask’s measurement is wrong.
Density is the key thing you are not understanding. Smokeless is not the same. Different density will fill a volume measurement device to different levels. If you have your volume measurement device set to 50 grains but your powder is not dense lets say home made screened powder vs pressed corned black powder then you're devise would overflow. More dense less room less dense more room. Measuring by weight it does not matter the brand but will fill a specific space un- evenly +or minus.
ruclips.net/video/IPbC1XvpY3M/видео.html&si=rRCyq5F8kGfsazBA
@@randytricker8585 I forgot about that. I know that there’s a volumetric difference between Goex Black powder and Triple seven because I discovered it myself not too long ago when I was making paper cartridges. I appreciate the correction and I’ll edit my comment so that we don’t get anyone hurt. Now just so we’re clear, I am fully aware that smokeless and black powder are *not* the same and shouldn’t be treated anywhere near as such.
You were doing good until you said a volumetric measurement in grains! Grains is strictly and Only a measurement of weight!