Bringing back a film format for my Al Vista 3B
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- This video is about some of the things I had to do to cut, roll, load, and photograph using Kodaks original format, type 101. I mainly did this for my AL-Vista 3B. A Format that Kodak stop manufacturing 68 years ago back in 1956.
Printables developing Reel www.printables...
Thingiverse developing Reel www.thingivers...
Etsy www.etsy.com/s...
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Flickr Album www.flickr.com...
Agfa Aviphot Pan 200 Data Sheet www.agfa.com/s...
Al-Vista 3B Brochure www.pacificrim...
Small 720nm IR Filter Ebay shorturl.at/5x8ag
Black Paper Amazon shorturl.at/Ov9ZB
Use Rodinal 1+25 for 8 minutes at 20°C, yields glorious results with this film! ( Meter at 200 ISO)
This is great news. I’ll have it a go. What would you rate the iso when shooting with an Infrared filter?
@@Socialmocracy Im using an ISO of 6 with an RG 715 filter (similar to an R72)! Thank you very much for this experiment with the aviphot! Your post on reddit pushed me over the edge and I also bought one of those, im also cutting the film with a nightvision scope, although this one is a military model. I achieve illumination of my darkroom by an external 940 nm IR flashlight. I also did a fogging test, 30 minutes under direct exposure at a distance of 30 cm to the IR LED leads to a significant fogging! So be aware with the IR LED. I Illuminate the wall and therefore the darkroom, and by using this indirect lighting, it is possible to work with the film for long periods of time without fogging it. The OD of the fog of my roll is at 0.15, in rodinal, which is so damn low. I think that the roll behaves as a "fresh one".
@@codysergeant1486 that’s awesome! I’m happy to have inspired you. May I ask when you film date of expiration is?
@@Socialmocracy Its Oktober 2014!
@@codysergeant1486 I have a diy spectrometer. I’m going to see what parts of the spectrum my NV goggles emit. It might not pick anything up. I made it for laser light. I do remember it showing some spikes around 808nm when I used my IR lasers.
These are so cool! Awesome video! Just got my first 6x17 and am getting into pano film photography.
@@markmoodywv That is great! Happy to see more people getting into panoramic film photography.
You can always try epoxy enamel appliance paint. Really hard once it dries very resistant to flaking.
I cut these rolls of Aviphot 200 in 18x24, 13x18, 10x12 (almost 4"x5") and 12x16,5 (half-plate) with a roller cutter, excepted for the 13x18. For this I hand cut with a template the length of a 120 roll film: a long cardboard folder of that length and 18cm width, with stainless steel construction ruller glued with cyanoacrylic all along the edge. I have a cutting mat under and I use an utility knife with a fresh blade, positioned tight against that metallic edge,, in order to cut lengthwise. So after tha first cut i have a 120 film for use with my MF cameras, and the remaining stripe of this Aviphot is now 24cm - 6 cm = 18cm width, this I cut every 13cm, either with the roller cutter or with a 13x18cm template done same way (a fold of cardboard with a glued metal ruler by the top edge, an cut with utility knife). I get so 6 sheets 13x18 and one roll of 120 with marginal loss.
Works nice, of course have to cut slow so not to have the blade skid off and butcher the fingers pressuring the ruler...)
@@minutte sounds similar to what I do. The glass plate was a thought because I was lazy. The shop I work for has a partnership with an auto glass repair shop. The plate was very cheap. But what you described sounds like it would be even cheaper and just as efficient. Thank you for sharing.
this is so cool! nice work
Very nice job. I have so many (dark) visions of cutting film for other formats but have mainly been worried about keeping my fingertips and not scratching film.
The night vision goggles really helped. I am working on a jig that can cut the film as I pull it through. I think that will cut my waste down and decrease my time cutting and rolling.
Awesome walk-through! I’d love to see a follow up of you using and setting this up in the field. It’s inspiring me to do something similar with my Cirkut. It’s really teaching me to see and compose in a whole new way. I’m sure the Aviphot from India is variable from seller to seller and year to year, but I’ve had good luck with Pyrocat-HD (1:1:50) and Legacy Pro’s HC-110 (dilution B). Tube developed for about 10 minutes. I hand rotate about 50-60 rpm, tipping end-to-end and reversing direction every 5 resolutions. I find it rates around ISO 64. With this method, the fog is only reads around 0.17 on my densitometer, which is pretty good for 10-year old film.
I’ll try the higher concentration. That might help. The NV goggles will let me develop by inspection. I only have manual development tanks. It sounds like constant agitation is key. I saw on Matt’s large format Friday he was using pyrocat to great success with this film. Thank you for the help.
Thank you for the advice. I was able to develop an image with the concentration you described above. I also used agitation similar to E-6 film developed. Pyrocat HD FTW!
@@Socialmocracythat’s good to hear. Glad it worked. Looking forward to seeing more from your adventures with the Al-Vista. Great results so far.
Thanks a lot for your in-depth explanation.
such a interesting way to take a panoramic photo
Very much so. I do enjoy using this camera.
Dang this project is super impressive! I would totally watch a multi hour video on this topic 😆
What an absolutely glorious device, congrats on reviving it and thanks for sharing!
This is a very cool project, thank you for sharing! I would love to see the entire process of getting it ready, loading film taking an exposure or two and prepping a roll.
Thank you! I’ll be working on a video this week. Setting up the camera in my house and trying to photograph some rooms.
Seems like a film slitter would work well for this. You could cut the film to whatever length you'd like that way.
@@ArthurFellig I am working making one for both the Agfa film and 10 inch roll film. I recently found out about this. Thank you for the comment.
@@Socialmocracy For sure! Thanks for sharing your findings and your artwork. I've watched all your films just today. I'm looking forward to seeing your future videos!
Aerial photography is still the way councils get their map data - its usually cheaper than tasking satellites and the council also own the images.
Where I live the regional council has aerials flown avery 5 years - these are shared to the land information department of central government and has an open use license. Its a much higher resolution than what you can pull from open source satellite or google maps.
Edit to add: this is now done digitally. But there is an archive of all film images, the regional council paid to have this orthorectified into a digital point cloud which is epic
Wow I didn’t know about this. Makes sense, I’m sure there is something similar all over the world. Thank you for sharing.
Time to time travel with the film photos and photogrammetry/NERFs/gaussian splats
I'm impressed! I can understand why some owners don't expllre the possibilities of this camera, so kudos for your perseverance and ingenuity
Love this man! You've inspired me to buy an Al-Vista 4b 😍😍 any recommendations on how to get film into it? Looks like it takes 103 and there's someone who 3d prints adapters for 120 on eBay, is that the best way to go would you say?
Hey there, I’m glad I inspired you. Unfortunately you can’t just use 120 or any other film format with adapters. The film plane is curved as well as the film gate. You have to make it ride in that gate. You can cut sheet film and load single shots. I did this with some black construction paper and x-ray film to test that cameras function. Bring a dark bag and change the film in the field. With something like the 4B you can order the large roll of aerial film and cut it in half with some excess waste. This would give you two rolls with every cut. I describe some of this in the next video on my channel if you are interested.
FYI: I'm spooling 4 1/2 inch Aviphot for a Kodak 4A Folding camera and using black photo sweep paper as my backing paper. It's totally opaque and I can cut a 4 1/2 inch strip off the front end of the 9' paper roll. Probably isn't archival but spool my film the day before I shoot. It's an inexpensive way to do it especially if you already have a roll. It comes in 48 inch lengths as well.
@@mehoshcommercialphotograph1877 Thank you for the information. I’ll order some now.
Recently brought a Huttig Merkur camera from 1900'ish back to life. 9x12 format & 10 drop plates. For its age I was really surprised how sharp the lens was. Used a telescope finder scope to reposition the lens for infinity. For plate loading with film I use a thermal imaging camera + phone mounted in a plastic VR viewer. IR I found fogged films and decided to go completely passive. - Also helps to load the Jobo 2905n which fills up the swear jar rapidly!
@@picnet I made a second video talking about the film and the NV goggles I am using. For some reason they don’t fog the film. Maybe they are very narrowband emitters maybe very low power or could be I lost some sensitivity to the film because of age and how it was stored.
Did you make a video on that camera? I would very much like to watch it. I love how sharp even 120+ year old cameras are. It really has opened my eyes.
@@Socialmocracy I used to upload quite a lot and deleted my content due to dwindling views. Unless the title is "restored an old camera and nearly burned the house down doing so", e.g negative they dont get many views. The camera looks similar to the detective cam in this video: ruclips.net/video/-1SRPOVwVOA/видео.html except the detective camera plate mechanism was different & didn't work as well as the one in the Merkur.
@@picnet I feel ya on the views. I think all them channels saying stuff about getting lots of views and followers is easy is just more click bait. I’m enjoying the grind atm so I’m going to keep up with it. I need to fix my box cameras. Should try and make something out of that.
I inherited a Kodak 3A, Camera, Patient on the shutter said 1903 (from memory), similar to your one. Mine has a black bellows and an f3.5 lens. I think the shutter speeds T, B 1/25, 1/50 and 1/100 of a second. It took 220 film.
Many years ago I blocked red the counter inspection hole, and put a sheet of Tri-X 4x5” film it. Exposure was judged by an old Sekonic Spot Meter and I soup it in D76. All came out as expected.
That was the last time I used it to make a photograph.
I want to work on a backing paper for mine. I have only used it for dry plates. About a year ago, I had a bunch of glass cut for it. It will be a future project for sure. Thank you for sharing.
This is so cool, well done and well solved.
And a cool idea to use night googles
@@O.Persson Thank you, it was a very fun project. I’m glad to see there are more people than just myself interested in this camera.
Great! Now I have to hunt down one of these and buy it. :(
@@MezeiEugen Unfortunately I think I may have had a hand at draining the market. About a week ago there was 10-12 units on eBay. Mostly baby AL-vistas the 120 versions. This morning I checked and there was only 4 left. 😞
Nifty, i'm interested in what moving the camera during the lens sweep is gonna do. I'll have to get my paws on one of these one of these days. Thanks for doing cool stuff and diving deep.
If you are interested in something that takes an easy and accessible film format a Baby Al-Vista and Panoram-Kodak No.1 both take 120 film. The Kodak one took 105 film but it is the same width as 120 but not as long. Using the 6x9 numbers its frame 2-6-10-14 making 4 6x18 negatives and the baby al-vista I believe is a 6x17 same numbers as above.
The main difference between the two is the Al-vista has fans to control and change speed as well as Waterhouse stops for aperture and the Kodak has only two different speeds and no aperture control.
Cartoon Color Company sells black paper used in animation...for backing paper that I used.
Thank you. I will look into this.
Do you have a link? I’m currently looking for backing paper for 120/220
@@mcb187 The paper I used is in the description. The Cartoon Color Company stuff I couldn’t find anything online. Looks like there is a store but only brick and mortar. Hopefully @MichaelCarter will come to the rescue. I have been re-spooling 122 and 101 backing papers to have something daylight loadable.
@@mcb187 I get mine from a local lab. They save it for me rather than throwing it away.
@@Socialmocracy See my reply above.
i had one chance to buy a kirkut camera and never seen one since
@@daledanowski9962 well there are a few on eBay atm.
Couple of questions about the Avipho, is it emulsion out, and is there a leader?
I have a couple of rolls for my aerial cameras, one mapping camera 9"x9" image size and the other reconnaissance 9"x18" image size, and have not yet opened the boxes of film.
I also have a "Morrison" developing tank for the full length 9 inch rolls when I finally get around to getting the power (and vacuum) to these cameras.
It is emulsion inward facing. It’s all film no leader. That sounds like a really nice size image to work with. What I got was an all black tube and in the tube was a black bag in that was the film.
Would be great to use some of the modern "deep black" coatings for the aperture, and even to refinish inside the body, or in the lens, if you're brave... this would drastically reduce flair or light leak spreading... Just a thought.
Im still working the camera. Coatings is on the list. I am going to do some brass blackening on the Waterhouse stops soon. I have used some musou black as well as some new felt on parts that needed it.
I have seen some photos of the OEM Waterhouse stops and none of them look like they were ever coated raw brass all the way. I’m sure the one that I have painted has increased the contrast and sharpness. Thank you for the advice. Always nice to talk about this stuff.
Can you not use the black paper used to pack photographic paper? Larger formats should have enough surface to make one baking paper strip. Or maybe the paper used to pack rolls of photo paper that is used in commercial labs. Although most of those are in a black plastic bag/tube, some come wraped in black paper.
@@MezeiEugen I’m sure you can try. I don’t have anything like that. Mostly because I haven’t tried. I know you could also buy new old stock of 122 rolls. That backing paper fits perfectly and is light tight.
I know this won't help you for another year, since the Ilford ULF orders closed 1st of June, but they list a 9cm wide 50ft roll of FP4 in the ULF catalogue. About 200 gbp per roll and global MOQ is 12 rolls, global order amount must be divisible by 12. Don't know if they managed to fill that pretty restrictive order count for this size, but maybe next year?
P.s. very nice camera. I have the Horizont, pretty run of the mill as swing lenses go. Try photographing a moving subject going either along or against the swing of the lens, I made a stubby short commuter train on mine :D
I placed an order this year for two rolls of 90mmx50 foot. I got refunded yesterday for that because the global minimum was not meant. Sucks 😞 but on a positive note someone is sending me 100 foot of Ilford FP4 10 inch! Can’t wait for that. Should be here today. Probably someone’s old cirkut camera film stock.
I wanted to grab a Horizont or even the older FT-2 I like how wide that FT-2 makes and image it’s like the Viscawide-16 but not as wide as that 5:1 aspect ratio. Thank you for sharing. I have yet to try moving the camera while it’s making an exposure.
@@Socialmocracy you have to save up and order 12 rolls next year... and probably win the lottery beforehands.
I haven't gone all Jeff Bridges and moved the camera either, I meant the camera was stationary and I took the exposure while the train was moving past me "against the swing" which made it very short. The Horizont takes so many images per roll, there is more room to experiment and be silly than your 6 shots per roll :)
@@cabbelos yeah no lie. $500 for two rolls. Idk how I could afford 12.
Oh?! That sounds interesting. Capture moving traffic and pan. Hmm 🤔 interesting. I know what you mean. That shot of George Clooney is so awesome. It shows how well Jeff knows his camera and the results shows.
Very cool camera -- At least as interesting as the modern versions made for 120 or 135 format !!
But my question goes more towards film stock. What will you use when old no more produced material is running out? Any plan/thoughts ?
FYI: i use right Fuji Xray material for 9x12cm, being in the building phase of an ULF camera. -- I for myself thought in case that even xray material becomes difficult and/or expensive to get, that I can still use paper inkl. color paper
@@FrankTitzeArt I have been work on and off with making my own emulsions. I have successfully made a 20ish iso emulsion for glass plates. But an issue comes up. I have been unsuccessful at using the off the shelf optical polyester plastic available online. I’m having trouble with the emulsion not sticking and lifting off during development. Separately, I was working on a 14x36 inch ULF camera till I ran into issue with woodworking. I’m having trouble making a usable film holder. So I started working on this project and put a hold on both the emulsion and ULF camera. I have a lens most of the camera built and bellows.
Do you have any post about your camera online? How did you make your cut film sheet holder?
@@Socialmocracy I have the base construction for the back standard and the base for the 30x40cm. The front is an ordinary Toyo standard for all movements I'd like to have.
I am not yet yet ready to share a lot., but it is a serious project as I purchased sever lenses for that design, a 75 and 90mm repo-camera shutter (24V DC) for which I just programmed a shutter,, lacking housing. And I have several parts like focus screen and fresnel and other stuff laying around. Bellows is missing.also. The whole construction is made by 20x20 X-profiles and so will be the holders outerframe.
Yes, the tricky part is still indeed the film holders. Here I changed several time my design.due to reasons: cost, weight, build-ability, flexibility.
Right now I plan for black fiber plate as the base plate. Likely 3 mm, the darkslides will be 1mm.
I plan not loading like any normal holder, but from the "exposing" side. using a frame to hold down the sheet on all sides with 1cm frame. The pressure shall come from magnets. I consider still also the feature to have with help of reduction frame also 24x30cm material or even others also optional loaded in the same 30x40cm holders. 24x30 is the max size for single sided mamo x-ray films and it offers more flexibilty with lenses.
Plan is to have the camera ready to use for next Spring.
The idea with the magnets I saw here, despite that the rest of my holders is different and also two sided: ruclips.net/video/l2XBu0WjeK4/видео.html
BTW: I also consider ways to develop the xray films scratch free.. While I as considering tanks for a while, I will try to got to trays but have the film in a frame under tension. Background: So far I was only successful with the xray films (9x12) in Rodinal..... But being a 1-time developer, it produces a lot of chemical waste. So I have to minimize the volume as far as possible. One element will be the punching of office binder holes in my 1cm sheet frame hold the sheets in frames.
Reason is obvious: I do not plan to make just a a few pics and then give up..With current xray film sheet costs in Germany for 24x30 (Mamo(1,30 $/EUR) or 30x40 (dual sided 0,90 $/EUR) is the film material itself (not the chemistry, archive sheets,...) in the ballpark of medium format picture costs (Ilford/Kodak).
As indicated, it is too early to claim victory..., but I'll try further to get it done. And in meantime, I still need to find time to shoot still fullframe digital(BW/color) and analog (BW in in MF and LF).
@@FrankTitzeArt I had similar issues when building my 14x36 inch. The X-ray sheets here in the USA is $75 for 25 sheets or about $3 a shot. But at 504 square inches. It is the largest film you can buy. Ethan’s 20x24 inch is legendary. That dude had it all figured out.
I got my base, front and rear standards built. As well as the bellows and back. I need to complete the ground glass and film holder as well as lens board. I got two lenses so far. A very wide angle 500mm and a 1070mm. The 500mm somewhat covers it. The corners are soft not as sharp. Unfortunately I have yet to find single sided x-ray film in the 14”x 36” inch size. I have developed with glass in the tray and my 8x10 shots have had no scratches. Flat bottom or add a piece of glass should help. Also dip and dunk tanks. I was using Kodak Dektol 1+5 for 2-3 minutes at room temperature. This got me about 20 sheets of 8x10 developed. I only changed it because I saw hairs and other debris in the liquid. Otherwise, I don’t think I would’ve needed to throw it away.
I’ll add a link to my album here if you are interested in the progress www.flickr.com/gp/197703301@N08/271427P5A0
@@SocialmocracyYou found an Apo Ronar 1070mm,, thst was also on my search list. I found 800mm Apo Tessar for a bargain price and was already happy... But meanwhile I got also a bargin a 900mm Apo Tessar and I could not resist, despite I do not expect practical differences Anyhow are with f9 are both so heavy that I need an extra robust front standard in addition.
For normal use I hope to become successful with my short lenses from Rodenstock, Staeble and Konica. Especially for the last two brands reap. their lenses are spec sheets not existing.
Correction : The 800mm is an Apo Ronar, not Tessar
5:21 I'm guessing no if it's all metal internals, moving parts being greased or oiled can go a long way, adding too much may make every exposure time slightly slower but it will protect it.
Since your shafts have wallowed out the holes a little I would recommend either putting some bushings in or using a thick oil/grease.
I talk about oiling them in the video. When I received my camera it was stuck not moving.
@@Socialmocracy I'm aware, you may want to get some bushings for that or get thicker oil to help take up the slop.
@@deltacx1059 Unfortunately the bushings are that top and bottom plate. I would need to make a replacement plate or use some punches to close the gap. Both require disassembly of the spring motor assembly. About a day or so ago I finally found some patents for this line of cameras. But unlike the panoram Kodak patents the patents I found don’t have detail motor drive assembly. I’m still looking into it. If I find a way to probably do a fix I’ll make a video on the process.
@@Socialmocracy it looked to me that there was starting to be enough room for a small flanged bushing to be slipped on but that could have just been the lighting making it look that way.
Either way hope you get it sorted.
@@deltacx1059 you know I might look at something for watch making. Anyways if I figure it out I’ll post a video
Nice!
Thanks!
Ingenious!
I had similar troubles hunting down a backing paper for my film. I have a 122 Graflex 3A and desperately wanted to use it in its intended format. Ive had luck hunting down expired 122 film from around the 50s & 60s then once ive shot and developed those rolls id reuse the backing paper as they are really solid and light tight.
Also quick question about your 101 developing reel, would it fit 122 film? im struggling to develop my 122 stuff and resorted to taping Patterson reels together which isnt ideal
I have a few Kodak folding brownies 3A cameras. I want to get them up and running as well. The problem I had with buying new old stock was the cost. I believe it’s about $60 a roll on sites like eBay.
If you give me a hour or two I’ll make a new file to add to my posting. I’ll make the space between 3.25 inches. They are not the best. You will need to round the edge of the film so it doesn’t get caught going in. I don’t have the time atm to fix the design but they will work for now.
@@Socialmocracy Yeah it is a problem trying to locate rolls, I got lucky finding 5 122 rolls for about $75, I probably waited about 3 months though for someone to list a roll for cheap.
And thanks a lot mate! I appreciate it. And dont worry about the loading issues anyway, ive found these larger roll film formats have those issues regardless because of how much the emulsion curls. Looking forward to future videos though, Ive really enjoyed watching someone who has gone through similar issues with older cameras.
@@ClementinesCoins Well it took me less time than I thought. Print it out test it and let me know. I have yet to make anything for 122. Something for a future project. Anyways you will still need the top part from 101 reel. Let me know how it works. It’s all available in the same posting.
@@Socialmocracy Thank you! ill see if i can print and test it within the next month or two. I really appreciate the help!
Interesting.
It probably would have been worth opening and closing the video with examples of final images you got from the camera. RUclips kinda just dropped me into this video without ever showing anything else from your channel first.
You are right. I’m still learning. I will do better next time. Thank you for your comment.
@@Socialmocracy any time. I partly just wanted to warn you that RUclips was sending people here first.
Now that I look at your videos, that was probably pretty obvious to you lol.
Looks like you have a decent start. I wish you luck in building the channel!
You can get aviation film from tasma, they still produce type 25 and type 42 stocks, which are approximately 100 and 400 iso. But it's probably gonna be hard to source...
Hey thanks for the information. You wouldn’t happen to know the approximate cost?
@@Socialmocracy i bought my 30 m spool of type 42 (135 film) for approx. 70$. That's without shipping.
@@Robinzon544 Thank you for the information
@@Socialmocracy you're welcome