@@jasonbenfield1484 Same. It definitely makes more sense for it to be after ALtTP, but the idea of a Zelda game happening inside another Zelda game is pretty fun.
@@finnheisenheim8274 I have a theory, what if each game basically branch the timeline, everything will make more sense than only ocarina split. It’s more of a tree and tears of the kingdom might not be that far from Skyward Sword.
Basically went from no timeline kind of like Final Fantasy (each game is it's own universe) to then shoehorning in timelines because of fan service. It was never the original goal save for specific titles. Then they kind of got sloppy with it, reconned some things, and now it's kind of a singularity reset of sorts with BOTW to end the timeline complexity. TOTK throws a wrench into everything because as best I can tell, it was never planned to happen. They saw how profitable BOTW was and didn't want the hype to die, so they rushed it out without sticking to the original plan of "fixing" the timeline problem.
@@finnheisenheim8274 I'm pretty sure what they meant was botw was the inevitable endpoint of all timelines. Like no matter what anyone does breath of the wild will always be the outcome, So breath of the wild could technically be In ANY of the timelines. While it still doesn't make sense, it certainly makes more sense than the timelines fusing somehow.
@@finnheisenheim8274 I mean BOTW still has that one item description about the world being covered by the Great Sea so either the three timelines have a great sea or it has to happen after wind waker
And what’s even funnier, is the fact that the one who knows better about Zelda story and lore, is Yoshiaki Koizumi, but he never says anything at all. XD
I always personally speculated that the reason Ganondorf has the triforce already during his execution is because Zelda sent Link back to the child timeline after he’d already obtained the triforce of courage, so the triforce of power and wisdom went to ganondorf and Zelda automatically the same way it did when ganondorf touches it in Ocarina. This could also explain why you find the triforce shattered in the Wind Waker and have to repair it.
That doesn’t explain why it’s shattered. The King of Red Lions specifically says it’s because The Hero of Time went on an adventure away from Hyrule that separated him from the aspects that made him a hero. It was talking about Majora’s Mask.
That's basically actually what happened. The king only believed Link's claims about Ganondorf BECAUSE he bore the Triforce of Courage. Otherwise he would've probably brushed it off as some kid spouting BS.
@@ElFreakinCid he also knew about the master sword, the gems, the ocarina of time, the sacred realm, and knew Zelda's Lulaby and the Song of Time. Link had plenty of proof with him
That's exactly right. This is evident by the fact that Link bore the Triforce mark on his hand in the ending scene of Ocarina of Time in both the original and remake - not a mistake, a deliberate choice. The interesting part is that this technically isn't the SAME Triforce he had in the Adult Timeline. Like you said, you have to find the shards of the Triforce in Wind Waker; the King says that the Hero of Time was "separated from the elements that made him a hero" (in the Japanese version he's explicitly referring to the Triforce), which occurs when Link is sent back in time by Zelda. However, the Triforce still "belonged" to him; therefore, he automatically gained the Triforce from THAT timeline (the newly created Child Timeline), and thus the other two pieces were automatically given to Zelda and Ganondorf. This is what the sages in Twilight Princess refer to as a "divine prank" - the reason Ganondorf has the Triforce in that timeline for apparently no reason.
I mean, the fact they even came up with a timeline is because of what fans were doing in the first place. I think the most interesting part is that they couldn't think of where to put the first four games, so they dumped them off in a theoretical branch of the timeline. You'd think that wouldn't be needed.
Nintendo's team did excellent work quashing the social contagion of ultrafan "canon", as stories should be the priority. Let's hope everyone else does it too.
A timeline wasn't necessary. Fans wanted one. The series only had a few direct sequels aside from that the games were more an anthology any time a previous games events were relevant they'd tell us that. WW had the opening, TP had the story from the sages. No timeline was needed.
Ngl Tears of the Kingdom and Breath of the Wild only make sense in its own pocket universe. It has zero connection to other games except maybe reference to Skyward Sword.
i mean it completely makes sense from the point of view of just trying to make a game with very little concern for the larger pore and more just like "ok so it will fit in with the last one me made, and that's good enough. whatever."
@@cunnyman BOTW and TOTK have references to basically every Zelda game. It really doesn't make any sense and it's probably it's own universe. Also, both of these games won't answer my biggest burning question: WHERE IS THE TRIFORCE!? There is Triforce symbols EVERYWHERE and it's isn't mentioned ONCE! What's up with that!? So yeah, BOTW and TOTK don't make any sense.
As he told maybe in breath of the wild, the other two timeline are myths, will it be because the timeline information have been lost and only the player(us) knew the timeline. What zelda is telling is misled by the myths that have many flaws
I'm of the opinion that, while making botw, a bunch of the important Zelda people sat down and were like "we're all tired of this timeline stuff, let's make it not a thing anymore" so they added stuff from every timeline and when totk came around they went "seriously? Was it not clear enough? We're going full reboot"
Just chuck it out the window. This is a shame because I was so happy to seeTwilight princess (favourite game) and skyward sword references ( I loved it, but it was too long) in BOTW
@@juanarocha8629 references can exist without continuity. Continuity is only valuable if every work in the continuity benefits. And the Zelda timeline offers no benefit to the games.
The “Zelda Timeline Document” that Aonuma and Miyamoto keep referring to has to be some damn bar napkin that now has so much pen ink and drink stains on it from continued amendments that it is now incomprehensible, leading to each new screwed up timeline retcon.
This is definitely the case. The development team went out on one of those post-work bar hangout sessions Japanese business men do and decided to have fun with their players' obsession.
@@DavidRPitt Pretty clear WIld and Tears are simply a new timeline. Maybe split somehwere before Hyrule's founding and when Ganondorf first appears, but definitly new.
It’s kinda funny that in the timeline, before Windwaker, there was only one Link and he had to kill Ganon like 20 times cause the sages could never seal him form more than a month
Honestly it would be funnier if this was the timeline, every game happening within a month of each other because Ganondorf cannot be kept sealed for long by the sages. It would collapse everything into a single timeline and just have ridiculous Zelda lore be chaotic and incomprehensible.
I’ve been championing the refounded Hyrule theory for weeks now. It works in the continuity while also giving the Zelda team basically complete freedom going forward
Totally agree. Plus it plays into the cyclical apocalypticism of Demise’s curse and how no matter how many thousands of years pass, there will always be another incarnation of malice, spirit of the hero and blood of the goddess to fight in this endless battle.
if this would be true maybe the Zonai are descendants of New Hyrule (like WAY after) and wanted to reclaim their old home land and unflood the old destroyed Hyrule using their advance technology and secret stones.
@@jalixfontin10 Yeah, seems that after TP the kingdom collapsed. The royal blood survives in Sonia until she marries Rauru and, we can guess they have a child. And if not, probably a brother continued the bloodline.
My understanding of BotW’s timeline placement was always that the events 10,000 years ago, didn’t happen like a thousand years after the other games, but that there were like 50,000 to 100,000 years in between. The calamity is mentioned as a repeating cycle as far as I remember, so I don’t think it only happened twice.
Yes, because gameplay couldn't exist if there were a story getting in the way. How that even make sense in Shigeru's head is beyond me. Oh, I know, because he's a liar, too lazy to write a cohesive story. And that's all it is.
@@Arcessitor I don't think Miyamoto is lazy, I think he's just an old stubborn man stuck in his ways. He has a very strict philosophy when creating games and he refuses to change what he thinks works. I just wish he would learn to embrace good story telling because it can elevate a good game to heights he couldn't imagine. It's possible to have BOTH fun and engaging gameplay alongside a great story. He just needs to step aside and let the young blood take over. He's killed the Mario RPG'S to the point where I actually lost a lot of respect for him.
@@Arcessitor You can't call a man who made one of the most successful series in gaming lazy. Do you know how much work goes into developing a video game? Especially games as big and complex as Zelda games? It's not a job for "lazy" people. He probably had to sleep in the office sometimes because he had so much work to do. He probably didn't care as much for the story because his brain was fried through all of the hard programming, developing, and meetings he had to endure. It's easy for us to care about the story because we aren't the ones having to do the work.
True, but in this case its actually the STORY of the games that are mucking up the timeline, not the gameplay... i mean they could have the same gameplay, but have a completely different story
@@MonteCreations Shigeru Miyamoto, is not a story teller, he doesnt care about story telling.... That doesnt mean he is afraid that story will ruin the gameplay, he doesnt want the story mess up his creative process, himself. so he keeps things vague so he can have a free out of jail card for his new ideas. They now wanting robots as enemies and earth shattering magic abilities.... Where were the Zonai in previous Zeldas? Who was Rauru? Nowhere and noone where the answers to these. they just created them on the whim.... That drags down some franchises more than others.It is fine in Mario (although Princess Peach has been kidnapped so many times it breaks any sense of verrisimilitude) but it destroyed the Paper Mario spin off and it kinda convolutes TLoZ unesserily much.
Incredibly well made! I also personally like the "Refounding" theory. They gave themselves SOOO MUCH room to work with after BOTW and they still had to mess with the old timeline, it blows my mind.
I just think calling it 'the imprisoning war' again is a bit on the nose, even for a series known for reoccurring names. OP also forgot that a new Hyrule had already been established a century after Wind Waker in Spirit Tracks, so his point about Hyrule having to be re-founded again in at least one timeline is invalid. I prefer to assume the Tears of the Kingdom references are actually about the Imprisoning War from A Link to the Past and the original founding of Hyrule pre-Minish Cap, and are simply told very inaccurately since after tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of years the stories no doubt have been distorted. The paintings themselves could very well have been made thousands of years after the fact, when the story had changed a lot. I haven't played the game yet, so I'm hoping nothing else in it will invalidate this idea.
@Affront to Humanity I did read it. I'm confirming something to a game you claimed you haven't played, and you preferred to assume an idea of a game you haven't played. I felt it warranted a response. If you didn't want responses, maybe you shouldn't be posting publicly, then acting like a dick. 🤡
I like the idea that Hyrule Warriors royally messed up the timeline, and Tears of the Kingdom's flashbacks are what the history of this horribly stitched together world is now, with elements from a whole lot of different bits of history all thrown together. It also explains some of the whole "fairytale thing", if they are stories passed down from the people who were pulled across from other timelines, but that didn't actually happen in this one.
This was my theory as well, it just fixes SO many issues. It even explains how the worship of Hylia returned in BotW after literally never being mentioned in any other games since the very start of the timeline. But because Fi crossed over during the Hyrule Warriors event, now everyone knows that Hylia exists.
I always just treat the franchise as an anthology: there’s some direct sequels but the whole continuity of the series is the shared vibes. Done. Answers like the entire thing 😂
I think of lot of nerds fail to realize that art is subjective and has subjective meaning. You can interpret things different than the artist intended. It's not actual history to be discovered. They are stories and that's it.
I'm glad I'm not the only person that feels this way. I was always perfectly content for Zelda games to stand on their own, united by their common themes and central legend that transcends worlds and histories. No timelines, no branching paths, no "what if the hero failed" alternate universes. Just The Legend of Zelda. And fans are then welcome to make their own connections where they see fit. I'm okay with the idea that some of the games take place in the same world, but forcing them into a rigid timeline feels far too restrictive for my tastes.
What I’ve always believed since BOTW, and TOTK only served to reinforce, is that after years upon years of timeline-related questions and the higher ups realizing just how convoluted their own lore had become, BOTW was meant to be an effective reboot of the series. Do away with split timelines and tell a singular story that reinterprets all the significant events that came before in a newer, simpler way. That was necessary for them as creatives so as to not drive themselves insane dealing with the mess of their poor planning, but they know a lot of long time fans will be pissed if they admit that basically nothing from any of the previous games is canon anymore, so they can’t just come out and say it.
Sure. But then, the easiest way to achieve this is stating that BotW and TotK take place after every previous one, after a timeline mixing (which would be nice to be explained by the way), and that this is a new Hyrule founding, and that events are bound to happen again and again (new Ganondorf, new Zelda, new Link). But they need to be consistent from here on. Which I suspect they just do not give a fuck
I think it would be really cool if there was a game that revolves around the mixing of the timelines. It would tie everything nicely together, while simplifying the story in the future since all the timeline timetravel chaos would be resolved.
It's not a reboot of anything, and it doesn't "do away with" anything. It's so far after everything that whatever happened before doesn't need to affect what happens here. And frankly, I'm sick and tired of people claiming every attempt at a new direction, reimagining, etc. with a long-running series is the creators wiping everything else from canon.
"Poor planning" is a strange way of looking at it IMO, video games are massive projects that frequently change their scope throughout development and the story has traditionally (I say that because obviously games have become way more cinematic over the past two decades and motion-captured cutscenes require planning) taken a backburner to the development of gameplay systems and testing/QA. Who would have believed you in the early 80s, when the gaming market had cratered, that in 30 years people would be demanding a consistent story across three decades of development teams with hundreds of different employees.
I love the theory that Hyrule Warriors converged the 3 timelines, and after that came Breath of the Wild, despite Nintendo saying that Hyrule Warriors was non-canonical, it's still the best way to merge timelines, since there, we have the mixture of all of them
I feel like the only reason why people react this way to TotK's many retcons is because we went over 10 years of safe places in the timeline. Nintendo always stated that changes in history/retcons can and will happen eventually. That's why they never really canonised anything in the first place. But we just got used to a fixed narrative over time. *Edit:* Hyrule Historia has this to say about Zelda's lore: "This chronicle merely collects information that is *believed to be true at this time,* and there are many obscured and unanswered secrets that still lie within the tale. As the stories and storytellers of Hyrule change, so, too does its history. Hyrule's history is a continuously woven tapestry of events. *Changes that seem inconsequential, disregarded without a shrug, could evolve at some point and hatch new legends and, perhaps, change this tapestry of history itself."* Zelda lore was always meant with retcons in mind. Only now this statement really took effect. Just treat Hyrule Historia as a bunch of "historical conjecture", how it was always meant to be.
Yeah I'm starting to see just how right they were in saying "we don't want to recognize the zelda timeline as canon cause it limits our ability to be creative" trying to stitch zelda games together in some cohesive history is painfully hard. Harder than teaching someone fnaf lore. It's better to look at it like all the games are different retellings of the same events. Skyward sword is the start of the timeline, TOTK is probably the end of the timeline, that's all that is concrete.
@@cesarsuarez7538 That's interesting. Because the book you're referencing has also this to say: "This chronicle merely collects information that is *believed to be true at this time,* and there are many obscured and unanswered secrets that still lie within the tale. As the stories and storytellers of Hyrule change, so, too does its history. Hyrule's history is a continuously woven tapestry of events. *Changes that seem inconsequential, disregarded without a shrug, could evolve at some point and hatch new legends and, perhaps, change this tapestry of history itself."* Hyrule's lore was always meant with retcons in mind. And only now that statement really took effect.
@@cesarsuarez7538 And I don't believe that to be true. Nintendo simply had this cool idea of making the Zonai so important to the lore that they created Hyrule itself. So they just retconned it that way. Simple as that.
@@pacebro0119 well did you notice the map from Zelda 1 in Zelda 2 and how Spectacle Rock (the 1st game's 9th dungeon) gives you a heart container or something in Zelda 2
Honestly, that makes perfect sense. That's why it's called "Adventures of Link," as it contains all the other games comprising all of Link's adventures. :3
Brilliant video. Very funny and informative in equal measure. I hadn’t come across most of the Miyamoto and Anouma quotes before. You’ve got to wonder if they’re legitimately trolling us at this point!
That last dungeon image is called a manji. In Buddhism it represents internal/external harmony and is typically the icon used to mark Buddhist temples or shrines on older maps
Oh of course. 1939 germany was just buddhist. Symbols are resignified, that thing has a different meaning today for the world than it did to buddhists i dont know how many hundreds or years ago
@@brenomanhaes9322 They flipped it backwards. The Buddhist symbol faces opposite to that of the Nazis and had been around thousands of years before the 1930s and 40s.
Japan has a HEAVY Buddhist roots. Symbols yes change meaning, but on the place it was used for so long, it still have it's original meaning.The Zelda series/ Nintendo, and any asiatic developer has a pass to use it (giving it have connections with the religious motif)
I get what y'all are saying, but the reasons you provided are the reasoning actual n*zis often use to do what is famously known as dog whistling. That symbol's presence in japanes pop culture, like in anime, most of the time has nothing to do with buddhism, but the mangaka thought "it looks cool" and "yeah lets fight the system", which doesnt make them any less guilty for disseminating nazi propaganda
This video is so insanely entertaining and well edited. Please keep stuff like this coming. It's the kind of stuff I sub too. Also Miyamoto probably has a panic attack everytime someone asks him about the timeline.
My favorite thing about Zelda Timeline videos is that it's starting to mirror real-life archeology/ancient history - we have multiple differing accounts, each of which claims to be true and has evidence to support it, some key events keep coming up but are described differently, and there's no single theory that unites them all.
Really enjoying this! Btw, just in case you didn't know, the swastika symbol is not just a Nazi thing. From Wikipedia: "The swastika (卐 or 卍) is an ancient religious and cultural symbol, predominantly in various Eurasian, as well as some African and American cultures, now also widely recognized for its appropriation by the Nazi Party and by neo-Nazis.[1][2][3][4] It continues to be used as a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism.[5][6][7][8][1] It generally takes the form of a cross,[A] the arms of which are of equal length and perpendicular to the adjacent arms, each bent midway at a right angle."
Yeah I had to have a whole argument with my teacher over this crap because I was doing a report on Jainism, a religion that uses this symbol with great importance, so when I had to go over it as part of my project she got mad at me for the picture in my PowerPoint. I had to sit their and explain while she stared at me in disgust the actual meaning of the symbol and how nazis many many years later bastardized it by rotating it 45 degrees and calling it theirs. In retrospect I actually kinda had fun with that because I got to insinuate that she was ignorantly intolerant of another religion when the entire point of this project was to open our minds and explore the religious culture of other nations.
I always like to imagine that breath of the wild and tears of the kingdom are their own separate thing, with all the events happening before simply games that don’t exist.
How could you forget about Link‘s Crossbow Training? 😱 Also, irony aside, keep in mind that Breath of the Wild‘s Hyrule Warriors spin-off Age of Calamity is apparently also official canon, thus introducing yet another Timeline split 😅
@@Ultranger let me turn it around: where did they say it’s not? It’s obviously not against Zelda canon like, say, the first Hyrule Warriors or Link, Zelda and Ganondorf’s appearances in Super Smash Bros., so without them explicitly stating it’s not canon I’m gonna accept it as such. Since it’s an alternate timeline anyway, it doesn’t matter to either BotW or TotK anyway.
@user-dj3ei7kp1r it is a prequel of sorts, but it starts to split into an alternate timeline from the moment the little robot jumps back in time. So its events no longer lead into BotW.
@@sirblankface7607certainly there can be. That would be the timeline we see play out in Breath of the Wild, if I recall the beginning of Age of Calamity correctly.
Honestly I kinda like the myth theory. It makes the past games feel more fun knowing you’re playing in some passed-down story about an old hero who saved Hyrule
Before I discovered Zelda theory videos it was crystal clear to me that this was the intention. In the game you're playing the other games are myths or LEGENDS. I mean every game builds it's own backstory, they only directly connect back to a previous title in very few exceptions. And that's brilliant! It allows them to develop the themes, to "know" characters you technically havn't met and if they would lean into this, they could even make some kind of philosophical commentary with it.
there was no timeline planned. it was a ploy by Nintendo to sell timeline books. the first timeline book was completely reorganized in the second version.
If you really think about it it becomes obvious that every game in the series is actually just a dream had by the wind fish and takes place during the loading screen between west and east hyrule in Zelda II
between the ranch ruins, the slate at the bottom of the royal secret passage, and the rito/zora EXISTING IN THE SAME PLACE, I like the in-universe explanation that the old games are myths, almost like a greek or norse epic that got told and told and changed and told some more, but the irl explanation that it's a hard retcon/reboot makes the most sense to me.
I think there are two very easy ways to place Rauru's Hyrule founding in the timeline: 1. After the events of skyward sword, the remaining humans on the sky evolved into the zonai, then descended and founded Hyrule 2. After a still unknown event, the timelines did merge, but the fact that there were 3 different landmasses on top of eachother with 3 different histories and 3 different times made everything such an utter chaos that the zonai, who were made by the goddesses specifically for this occasion, had to descend to rearrange and refound Hyrule
Honestly, in a 4th timeline branching from skyward sword that takes place so far into the future it’s after all the other zelda games (or at least similar adventures) Is the best theory imo
It makes sense too because demise died in two separate timelines and the one where he died as the imprisoned is where Zelda and link found hyrule and the timeline where he dies as demise skyward sword can’t happen or doesn’t need to happen because demise is already dead meaning that hylias reincarnation might not be Zelda at all and may have been Sonia or hylia didn’t reincarnate at all making it so things fundamentally occur differently
@@cavemanbuddyolpal And so when ganondorf still appears in this alternate SS timeline, Link isn't around to defend Hyrule, and Zelda can't do much as her concerns are with the master sword and trying to get back to the present day. Also I don't see why Hyrule needs to have been immediately founded after SS, to my memory it wasn't stated as such and the people of the sky would have to take a fair bit of time to integrate with the surface world.
@@Jenna_Talia also it makes sense that some people stayed in the sky and mutated into the zonai, since they don't have hylia's protection anymore they biologically would need to change
@@cavemanbuddyolpal Yeah, Skyward itself has time-travel shenanigans, so the time-line can branch right there (instead of branching in Ocarina of Time). It was foolish for Nintendo to mention twilight, sky and time in a story cutscene tho, that creates needlessly confusion. Seems obvious they didn't had a BOTW sequel planned, BOTW looked like a continuation, the imprisoning war that was mentioned in previous games, Calamity Ganon could be a previous Ganon that was sealed, he almost resurrected at full power but Zelda stopped it, etc.. it's still confusing and messy, but the entire series is messy, so whatever. But TOTK basically erased all the possibilities of BOTW being connected, this game looks lie a 4th time-line indeed
Well I can tell you that Hyrule as a kingdom was founded in between the very first Zelda and the second one, which despite their differences in styles are basically one of the direct sequal groupings in the games. Which is a little detail that's often ignored. So even getting to the third game causes some disconnect problems between the two stories about when it was founded and where let alone anything else. So there really isn't a simpler time even when you get just 3 games in. Just a whole lot less pieces to convolutedly try to stick together. Along with other issues like the Master sword not existing in the first two games along with a few other things.
Random theory a friend and I came up with, what if the Zonai are time travelers and went back in time to insert themselves into Hyrule's history for some reason or another. This theory is based on no evidence and a lethal dose of Zonai =Twili copium. Nintendo pls give us DLC to clarify this mess.
I hope we get a third game in the newest Hyrule that creates a time loop back to the beginning of the timeline just to make people explode from frustration
My idea was a Prequel to Botw that focuses on the Calamity 10,000 years ago, in which we get a completely new and retconned origin of the Master Sword lmao Also furry Link
@@HeterosexuaI No, Hyrule Warriors 1 us not canon and Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity (Which one can argue it's also not canon to an extent) is about the events 100 years before BotW, not the ones 10,000 years before
Personally I like the idea that each of the oracle games take place on different timelines but that the events were similar enough that the were able to converge. If we wanna get meta us using the code for the extra content is what fuses those timeline together.
All they need to do is make the original Hyrule Warriors canon. It solves everyone's problems by treating each series as alternate spacetime realities that can relate to each other but don't necessarily have to. In short, the Doctor said it best, "It's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff."
Did you not notice the MAAAAASIVE similarity of the Dragon's Tears memories to Dr. Who? The whole thing is like the video tapes in Blink, and then Zelda hanging on to the master sword for 10s of millennia was similar to programming the sonic screwdriver to work on decrypting something and then using the same screwdriver that was 400 years older right next to him.
13:35 If you look very closely when Link meet up with Zelda after he goes back in time at the end of oot he has the Triforce on the back of his hand so logically that would mean the other two pieces went to Zelda and Ganondorf respectfully and they kept them until the events of TP
My guess would be that the triforce exists beyond time. Since the triforce splits and goes into the trio in the adult timeline, the same had to happen regardless of the altered events in the child timeline.
@@bgmarts1320 Both the Tri-Force aswell as the Master Sword can ascend and overcome time itself. So yeah, you're absolutely right. Also the reason, why there is actually no split after Skyward Sword (aside of the blue bracelet proving the timeline is linear), because Demise was beaten in a realm unaffected by time itself. Beating him there had the implication, that the timeline was put back in order (eventho logic still says otherwise, as Demise was pretty much pulled out of existence, eventho there is an Imprisoned, but Nintendo and a logical timeline was never a working pair lolz)
So the "Founding of Hyrule" explained in Tears of the Kingdom is supposed to have been just prior to the first Calamity, based on some things you find out in this game's Memories. It's not the first time that they've shown that a new version of Hyrule was founded on the ruins of the old one.
But then surely the other games wouldn’t have been too far off from that point eh? Rauru claims to never have heard the name Link before, but then they end up calling their kingdom “Hyrule”, the same name used over and over again for other kingdoms. Surely titular figures such as Link and Zelda would have also carried over.
@@Ace_Angelo I don't think Link's name ever survives in the history books. Anytime Link is mentioned in a historical context, he was always referred to as "the Hero of _____". So Rauru may know of Link but only knows Link as "the Hero of Time" or "the Hero of Winds" because Link's titles are the only things that survive.
@@IHateGenericCereal Well, they are canonically, it's just that history isn't kind to them and the name never seems to be remembered. As was pointed out above, even the games themselves only have people remember them as "the Hero of x".
One interesting theory that I heard is that after spirit tracks, four swords adventure, and Zelda II the timelines merge together due to Zelda being the sage of time creating a brand new timeline that shares similarities to all three timelines. This theory also explains how you can find tunics belonging to Zelda 1 link, twilight princess link, and wind waker link in the same game
This was such a good synopsis. I am definitely in the camp of TOTK revealing how their modern iteration of Hyrule was founded, not the Ocarina/Twilight Princess Hyrule. After such a ridiculously long history, I think it would only make sense that it would have to be founded again and I have no issue thinking of Sonia as having the blood of Hylia. Even Ganondorf showing up in the same way he did in Ocarina points to Demise's curse still going strong. Just like Link is born again and again with the same blondish hair, blue eyes, and left-handedness (*silent tears*), now we have all the evidence I need to see that Ganondorf does the same. He was reborn as a Gerudo warrior with similar features but isn't a 1:1 copy. Honestly my biggest lore gripe with BOTW and TOTK was Hylia herself no longer being connected to Zelda, that screws with me. Good vid!
I was so sure that this had to be posted by a huge channel, the quality and editing were on point! Great video, will definitely be watching whatever comes next
My personal theory is that there was a full timeline merger rather than a convergence. Sort of like a canon in-lore reboot. In the gap between the age of myths and breath of the wild every timeline was smashed together into one combined one, with past events reshuffling details around to make as much sense as possible. The Zonai are like a weird combination of all the elements of the sky people and magic tribes like the Twili. I also think the Depths are sort of a weird divine dumping ground where the gods crammed their unwanted leftovers after the merger, which is why lost souls, monsters, and demons end up there but also artifacts from previous games that didn't really fit into the new merged world and its history. That also explains how we got formerly mutually exclusive elements from the fractured timelines together at the same time, like having both the Rito and the Zora coexist despite the Rito previously originating FROM the Zora.
So they basically did a Crisis on Infinite Earths on the Zelda timeline? I actually really like that and might steal your theory. Thank you for your contribution
Well game theory already made a video that just explains why Hyrule warriors should be canon as the whole timeline merging plot of that game can lead into botw
In defense of Princess Zelda, you seem to be expecting omnipotence. Wisdom is knowing what to do with the knowledge you have. She had no idea when Ganondorf would start his attack, that the Master Sword would put Link to sleep, or that Ganon would eventually rise again.
any explanation is good as another. makes as much sense that despite ganondorf having the "power", link always just straight up beats his ass, and despite zelda being the "wisdom", ganon always outwits her, and even tho zelda tends to fail a lot, she has the "courage" to keep on trying.
@@AL-nv4gk Like how, unlike her father, she can tell Ganondorf has evil intentions. Or teaching the Hero of Time how to warp. Or knowing how to keep Ganondorf off her trail for seven years.
Honestly I really like the idea of Hyrule Warriors being what brings the timelines together as it brings together heroes from all three timelines. It would honestly make a lot of sense
New theory. BotW and TotK are a reboot, but the reboot actually started with skyward sword. ALBW and TH are still old canon though. Also the Four Swords games are banished to their own canon too. This means that all games within a canon are now related by direct prequel/sequel status except BotW and SS (Also links awakening, but that doesn't influence anything anyway.) It also means one Ganon/Ganondorf per canon, and thats cool.
Honestly, the skyward sword split 4th timeline is probably the one that makes the most sense considering the writer of skyward sword Hidemaro Fujibayashi, is the director of this game and botw.
My personal theory on the convergence of timelines leading to Breath of the Wild, is that it's Farore's doing. Din, Nayru, and Farore are each the goddesses of power, wisdom and courage respectively. The mind/body/spirit triad of the Triforce which should be clear to anyone. I believe Breath of the Wild is the third Oracle game we never got, a quest for Farore, the spirit portion. In Ages, you solve puzzles, displaying wisdom, and time travel, working with the internal logic of the world. In Seasons you fight hard, displaying power, working with the physical nature of the world. Each game involves, if you link them, Ganon's mind and his body. In Breath of the Wild, Ganon's spirit is a literal malevolent cloud hanging over Hyrule. The Calamity. The world is without hope, everyone is depressed and just subsisting. Your goal is to restore the _courage_ of the previous champions, overtly, and the world at large as you quest around Hyrule. See, I think, when the timeline split, Nayru was all "more time, more good!" She'd love complexity there. More time, more possibility of thought across the timelines, more history, more knowledge, more wisdom as different permutations play out. Din, more timelines more bodies, more power, she's cool with that, too. Farore, on the other hand, would have been tortured by the split, with souls being torn across the timelines and having to be reintegrated and ripped apart on every reincarnation cycle (reincarnation definitely being a thing in Zelda). I think she deliberately reassembled Ganon's spirit (and thus Link's and Zelda's, too, thanks to Demise's curse linking them all), and drew all three timelines together. She inflicted the Calamity on the world because it was the only way to reunite everyone's souls. Everyone's souls being reassembled at this point is why historical accounts fit all three timelines. Because it IS so far in the future that it could all be legend, but subconscious memories from every historian and archaeologist trying to explain Hyrule's past have primed their thinking. Salt here? Oh that must be from the great flood! A war against darkness in our past? Oh that was the Imprisoning War! They don't overtly "remember" these events, but just get a sense of them feeling true, because their souls remember.
Hmmmm, I like the way you think. I haven't heard a theory quite like this yet, thank you for imparting such wisdom with powerful writing and having the courage to do it hehehehe
Great video! A good friend of mine once said that observing the Zelda timeline feels like playing a game of Telephone. After finishing TotK, I'm personally in support of the hard retcon/reboot theory. Stories in Nintendo games are always afterthoughts (albeit some great ones that can stand on their own), meant to flesh out or explain away in-game mechanics. It's why major story elements in games were confined to game manuals back in the old days. Link, Zelda and Ganon(dorf) are well-established so they get recycled from game to game. Demise's curse was an excuse for Nintendo to keep doing that. This franchise is so derivative and iterative, you start to see through the "timeline" nonsense.
So I'm just gonna say this: it's not in the timeline we know. This is its own stand-alone timeline. Talking about the botw and tokt games. I'd say everything in past games happened, but very differently. These 2 games are more themed around technology. Tears and breath are in a different timeline from past games. It's the only explanation
If Nintendo really wants to make the timelines confusing they should canonize every game with tine travel shenanigans as making a timeline split and introduce some magic doodad that lets different timelines talk to eachother.
Great video! Something I noticed that makes things make some more sense is realizing that there have been 3 different main creative directors throughout the series history. Up to OoT makes sense because Miyamoto was in charge. But after that he gave the series to Aonuma, who only began work on the Series with OoT which is why his games seemingly ignore the rest of them. Then, Fujibiyashi took over as creative director with Skyward Sword, and as you said, Skyward Sword up to TotK have no timeline discrepancies, in isolation
What I’m trying to say is that the directors only care about how “their” games fit together, and not the whole series. So if you split them up based on who was in charge, the timelines actually make pretty good sense
Well I wouldn't say no discrepancies with SS, sonias ears being noticeably larger and the clothing style being noticeable ancient when compared to skyloft is difficult to really put together
And actually, for tears of the kingdom they brought in a completely new writer who never worked on the "main" zelda titles before. And the first female writer too (that i know of).
Btw Botw and Totk are ocurring some time after Hyrule Warriors where EVERY SINGLE TIMELINE combined in a friciking messy Hyrule, where the zonaans existed in the past of this fourth timeline where everything combined but didnt stop the other timelines from expanding and making Hyrule Warriors occur 100 years and more before Botw. So basically They teleported link and others to an existing timeline created where Link didn't even exist as well as Zelda *I think* to the present of that timeline AND also combined pieces of every timeline into that one and making that timeline one where Zelda and link just appear and have their triforce power
I have two possible theories on how Breath Of The Wild and Tears Of The Kingdom fit with the rest of the Zelda timeline: Theory 1: Hyrule was founded twice. Either TOTK and BOTW happened first and then something went very wrong and the surviving hylians moved to the sky before eventually Skyward Sword happened and the rest of the timelines followed, or the other games happened first and then something happened in one of the timelines that wiped out enough of Hyrule for it to no longer be considered a kingdom, and then it was re-founded by Rauru and Sonia before BOTW and TOTK happened Theory 2: Breath Of The Wild and Tears Of The Kingdom are in a separate timeline from all the other games, but BOTW/TOTK Zelda, as the sage of time, can see and possibly even visit other timelines. And maybe on a few of these visits, some things crossed over, bringing with them the evidence of other timelines. Maybe the koroks came from the Wind Waker timeline (maybe they brought a seed from the great deku tree, or even just outright cloned it by planting one of its branches), and maybe the blupees were once the minish/picori from the Four Swords timeline (which would explain why they drop rupees when you hit them), and maybe Wolf Link from the Twilight Princess timeline crossed over as well (which could be represented by the fact that we can summon him with amiibo in BOTW) Both options are extremely convoluted, and I don’t know how well either of them would hold up against actual scrutiny (I’m not even sure which one I think is more believable), but they make about as much sense as anything else Nintendo has done recently
I personally believe it makes most sense for TOTK and BOTW to simply be set so far in the future that in the intervening time between them and the era of legend where the other games are, the kingdom of Hyrule was destroyed and then reformed by Rauru. This makes the most sense imo, doesn’t contradict any previous games, and plays into the the endless cyclical apocalypticism of Demise’s curse. No matter how many thousands of years pass, no matter how many times the kingdom of Hyrule falls or the blood of the hero and spirit of the goddess defeat the incarnations of malice, Demise’s curse keeps them eternally bound and unable to win.
My understanding of how BotW fits into the timeline was always that, through these cycles of reincarnation, so many tens of thousands of years have passed that the events of all three timelines have managed to play out in every timeline, essentially converging them before the time of the Great Calamity. Now with Tears of the Kingdom, I'm convinced this must be the case, where Hyrule itself had time to be forgotten and re-founded, the Triforce was forgotten besides being a symbol of the royal family, and Ganon was able to actually permanently die and be reincarnated as a new Ganondorf instead of just resurrected like usual.
My personal theory for TOTK’s story is that it still takes place after all the previous games and isn’t a retcon or 4th timeline. I believe the two major talking points (the imprisoning war and Hyrule’s founding) can be explained. The imprisoning war of TOTK is merely a different imprisoning war from the one we were told about in ALTTP, they’re just called the same thing because… man gets imprisoned lol. As for Hyrule’s founding, I think we need to look at the ending of skyward sword in a different context. We see that link, Zelda, and some other humans go down to the surface. Before TOTK, we all assumed that link and Zelda founded the royal family and Hyrule itself, but I like think that’s not actually true. When Raaru and the other zonia come down from the heavens, people and towns already existed. I like to believe that skyward sword saw the events of humans coming down to cultivate the “land” of Hyrule and that TOTK saw the events of the founding of the “kingdom” of Hyrule.
Additionally, (spoilers though you are already on a Zelda theory vid) only two Zonai were left during the imprisoning war - Rauru and Mineru, and importantly Sonia wasn’t a Zonai. She was a person from the land, not the sky. All of this lends credit to your idea that Skyward Sword just had people come to land, but didn’t establish a kingdom, while the Zonai were still in the sky and created a lot of tech, then finally came to land. The problem is that Ganon is supposedly imprisoned all this time. Unless there could be other Ganons while this one is sealed, other games cannot happen in between
To add to this Rauru and Mineru did not land they could be the first born on land but i think it is a few generations past bc those other zonai were sealed to the twilight realm aswell the 100% shrine reward makes it really confusing.
Something else to consider that might support the idea of this not being a retcon: the Rito. Unless they retconned that as well, this should be evidence of Wind Waker's flood, so maybe they just founded Hyrule again at some point, either in a new land or on a newly flushed Hyrule. Perhaps Spirit Tracks' magic trains are the precursor to the Sheikah tech.
The Rito are interesting in all of this because in Wind Waker it’s implied that they evolved from the Zora who seem to be more or less extinct in Wind Waker. It’s possible some Zora survived long enough to re-emerge as a separate entity from the Rito but it’s unclear how this would have happened (or why the fish people would have all died off in a massive flood to begin with)
I think every event shown in breath of the wild and tears of the kingdom happens so far in the distant future compared to other games, none of them effect the current timeline at all. We’re simply seeing history repeating itself over and over, as is demise’s original curse and Hylia’s plan to stop him, the spirit of the hero, the goddess hylia’s mortal reincarnations and demise’s demon king spirit are in an infinite loop in every sense
Uh. Hold on, a thought occurred. What if Tear of the Kingdom's imprisoning war wasn't the one from Ocarina of Time, but was from the first few years since Hyrule was established? If that's the case, then the Ganondorf in this game is the FIRST reincarnation of Demise. That would also explain he knows Zelda and doesn't know Link; at the time he took action, Link was never born yet, so he only ever met Zelda.
I've seen this idea a couple times. This Gannandorf is undeniably a new incarnation from the one depicted in other games. But if the past sequences of TOTK happen during the first founding of Hyrule and the other games aren't being retconed out of existence, then there'd have to be 2 Ganondorfs existing at the same time, one that was sealed until TOTK and a second that's carrying out the acts seen in every other appearance up until now. That's totally something Nintendo could make cannon, but it seems like a bad option when there's a couple of ways they can make TOTK happen without any retcons.
@@OnADock i actually think that the ganondorf in tears of the kingdom has to be from a previous era, the gerudo in botw have pointed ears because of mixing with hylians, but ganondorf shown in tears of the kingdom has rounded ears like the ones shown in past games like ocarina of time. Even the gerudo shown in the founding of hurtle in tears of the kingdom have pointed ears in the same shot that show ganondorf with round ones. I think this proves that the ganondorf in tears of the kingdom HAS to be the same as in previous games
@@OnADock There is no way to make the timeline without a retcon without that happening. Zelda has been a dragon above the cloud barrier for 10s of thousands of years as well, so every Zelda from every possible timeline would have to exist while this Zelda was in the sky as a dragon, which is the same as having the sealed Ganon under the Castle and another Ganon. Likewise there were 2 Zelda's in Zelda 2 as well. Also just an interesting tidbit, if you go under Hyrule exploring you can find a stone slab that says they built Hyrule Castle there on top of the Sealed Ganondorf. So the Castle was built after his defeat by Rauru.
@@OnADock The idea that it's a different reincarnation is definitely deniable. My take is that it is in fact the same Ganondorf from OOT and TP that broke away from his seal in the Sacred Realm after Hyrule's destruction (meaning his seal got weaker), eventually breaking free when a new Hyrule, founded by Rauru and in its weakest state, was formed. Then, the events of TOTK happen.
@@jasonbenedetti5499 I like to think this castle was built for a dual person: 1) As a memorial to the ancient Hyrule and their kingdom. 2) To seal Ganondorf.
It's not **totally** gone. We see it invoked twice (sort of), both times in conjunction with "Sacred" or 'Light" powers. The first is the obvious one in BotW T-100y, when Zelda awakens her power and partially seals the Calamity. The second is in TotK T-?????y when Rauru uses his Light power to blast the Molduga - he makes a triangle-shaped sign with his hands. While not an explicit Triforce reference (hence why I say "sort of") it doesn't feel like a coincidence to me that that particular shape is used in conjunction with the Light power.
@@BlueAmpharos not exactly. Lorule has its own version of the triforce which they destroyed and that caused their world to start dying. Since Lorule and Hyrule have their own triforces they only apply to their respective worlds so lorules destruction of their triforce has no effect on Hyrule
@@waltuh2412 I don't know if the triforce being destroyed is a spoiler for Tears of the Kingdom or not but I was trying to avoid spoilers of that game. I added the last part of this video to its own spoilers playlist to finish watching it until after I've played the game, I hope it wasn't a massive spoiler. And if anyone says a spoiler after this post I'm deleting my contents so I won't get notified again.
Let's be real here, there is no actual timeline, with the exceptions of: - direct sequels - whatever they decide is neat iconography or easter eggs to carry over - whenever they decide that "official timeline" is a good merch idea Mute Elf Man Stab Big Bad, Save Macguffin Princess. It's not like their character motivations have much more nuance to them than that these days anyway.
Talk about souless Sheiks theme? singing tunes on the ocarina shit used to have a bit of aubstance an feel to it. Keep me away from wierd goat/dog animal implied to make love to a woman as the King of Hyrule please!! Why did they add this facet that ruins the series for me 🤬🤮
With totk I have given up on Zelda lore. I was so excited when corpse Ganondorf first mentioned the name Rauru, thinking that Nintendo was finally starting with consistent, cross-game lore. Then just moments later all that excitement was crushed with the absurd Zonai founding of Hyrule. Besides, how the hell is nobody talking about Zelda apparently completely forgetting about her sealing power? Her struggle of unlocking her divine abilities was essentailly what the whole story of botw was about and she was basically the most powerful being in existence at the time botw ended. The 7 (or so) years later at the time of totk she has fully regressed and is a helpless damsel in distress again? Why? Why was this necessary, Nintenod? God how much I would've loved to see a fully powered up Zelda fight Ganondorf, but we weren't granted such a fantastic spectacle. UGH
There's a very simple solution to the timeline, due to reckless time travel and temporal weapons, the timeline is highly unstable and damaged so you'll never have a simple answer. If the cannon is really confusing and they have access to time travel, just take the Doctor Who approach.
I like to think that after OoT, where ganondorf is sealed in the sacred realm, Rauru (OoT Sage of light) literally goes in with him to make sure he doesn’t gather his power and bust out. It covers a lot that isn’t explained in TotK but I’m sure it’s littered with holes
If you look at hyrule historias timeline the creation of Hyrule by settling the surface in Skyward Sword happens, then the fight over the sacred realm by the interlopers(hint future twili ) and the Sealing of the sacred realm by Rauru, creates the Temple of time. Then the next event is the founding of the Kingdom of Hyrule. Hyrule likely existed before Sonia and Rauru just not as a centralized Monarchy.
That could work ,something similar to how Westeros was before Aegon's Conquest. Rauru and Sonia just go to each region to make peace with every race until the Gerudo oppose their reign.
I had always though that almost every game is just separated retellings of basically the same story and not a messy timeline with confusing prophesies that keep repeating itself. The main plots in Zelda games themselves usually aren't that unique and rather simple since they aren't really the focus as the gameplay, mechanics and world building.
"I only saw 1 cutscene" Yes, in that cutscene you saw Adult Zelda left behind (Timeline A) as Link traveled back to his childhood era (Timeline B) Thus, 2 "endings" for each character
As I started playing TotK and the imprisoning war was mentioned I was stoked! Seeing as how a link to the last was one of my favorites…. Well then the rest of the story happened 😂 still love the game though
Except they always stumble over previous statements and constantly re-affirm that timeline integration is not a priority for new Zelda games, they just look at the finished product that is good on its own, and go “alright find some place to shove it the fuck into on this bs timeline so we’re done with it and let them reeeee about it”
Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. Cuz in Wind Waker, the Rito were an evolution of the Zora who had pretty much gone extinct, while they coexist in BOTW, but it makes sense for them to coexist if they converged in Hyrule Warriors
My opinion always was that BoTW came later in the child timeline where Hyrule were properous enough to thrive, then after TP Sheikan culture revived because Link basically passed the book that held their legacy, not only that but the people that remained in the sky along with their tech were found leading to the creation of the guardians and all of that.
I honestly kind of like the theory that all previous Zelda games can be looked at as tales lost to time and TOTK is us experiencing the events as they really happened. It doesn’t necessarily retcon the previous games or branching timelines, it just kinda cleans everything up and gives us a new “definitive” story to go off of.
I agree. I feel like most of the old games really happened in botw!verse, but the games we played are how the story was told. That's why the series is called LEGEND of Zelda. We're playing legends/folklore/mythology, not historical fact. I think some games, like OOT and LTTP and LOZ are pretty close to fact, while games like LA and MM are mostly folklore, and other games like SS are a bit half and half. In fact, if these legends are stories told in botw hyrule, it could be that certain legends come from certain regions. Like i imagine LA would be told around Lurelin village, MM in tabantha bc it's close to foreign lands that no one has been to, etc The hero was even venerated in botw hyrule in the forgotten temple, though by botw it's obviously been forgotten. It's kind of like how we conceptualize ancient greece, and how they in turn conceptualized Mycenaean greece.
One small issue with Queen Sonia and King Rauru founding Hyrule and the royal bloodline, they didn't have any children. Kind broke their own lore immediately with that one, and it would have been so easy, Zelda going back in time could have inspired the Zelda name in a weird paradox too. Was really expecting to see their child peeking thorugh the window when Ganondorf 'took the knee' in the teardrop memory.
Sonia said they shared blood. They might not have had children, but the direct blood relatives of Sonia might have kept the kingdom going. They left it pretty wide open to fill in any holes later.
There was no timeline, originally. They were stand-alone, franchised adventure games for a hand-held "entertainment system" in 1986. The idea of video games being franchised was in itself a brand-new idea, let alone the idea that those franchises should/could have overlapping, inter-connected plots. The entire idea that ever individual Zelda game can be connected on a single timeline, branching or otherwise, is in itself a retcon.
I love Zelda lore, epecially if it comes to the fun exercise of trying to put it all into one coherent story. I think it's fun. That's it. They set out to make fun games with engaging mechanics, but people tend to _want_ stories and if there is no story to begin with, people will make up their own with the few morsels of lore they got. People like puzzles too and if you got a few hints to what the bigger mystery is, people will try to fit those pieces together as a whole just don't take it too seriously, or you will be driven crazy, it's still all just games, not a real world where everything actually happened (I'm not trying to disencourage anyone from trying, still love it all and those silly game theories with their flaws are still fun after all)
totk gave me a headache on my first playthrough, I was constantly trying to piece the events together. After hearing Rauru's name in the prologue I got super hyped about OoT's events being directly addressed... But that didn't exactly happen
same i was like "HOLY SHIT RAURU?? IS THIS THE FALLEN TIMELINE?" cause he mentioned rauru putting his trust in link like how in oot rauru put his trust in him but he dies in the fallen timeline from ganon. and then when ganon reawakens he recognizes link and zelda from oot
@@eddiej788 Even to this day I did not finished Ocarina, so the name Rauru did not draw my attention, it flew over my head... but I did played Wind Waker, so that initial scene had me intrigued. Ganon knows? He is aware about Link and Zelda, just like WW Ganon... so this is a continuation of that time-line? Hyrule was "re-founded" after the flood went away (or it's a separate time-line were Ganon makes his wish to the triforce). But naah, seems like the BOTW time-line is detached with all the others, it's a fourth branch from Skyward
@@slipperykorn144 The plot it's very messy, honestly. Zelda usually struggles with that, but BOTW and TOTK are specially messy. The "present" story, showcasing Link, Zelda, the champions (then sages), Ganon to some extent.. it's good. But the background is confusing, thousands of years, crazy technology that never shows up again, triforce is nowhere to be seen, etc.. it's a goddamn mess
Nintendo didn't wait until the third entry to create a "cohesive timeline." Zelda 2 is a direct sequel, chronologically, to Zelda 1. It says so in the game manual that was originally released with the game. And A Link To The Past's game manual states that it is a prequel to Zelda 1.
Why can’t Nintendo just say “Look guys Zelda BotW and TotK are just another universe (like the comic book multiverses) - and any mention of places/events/items from previous games is because those exist as folk tales of alternative versions of Hyrule.” This way nothing gets overly complicated and they can still nod to the other titles as much as they want.
dude , good video by the way but , there is a possibility that link's awakening was always implied to happen after a link to the past , the reason for this is that if you pay attention to the final boss , he change him self to different forms of bad guys depending on link's memories , one of them is agghanim him self from a link to the past , in fact , when you take a link to the past art work regarding the game boy advance version , and compare it to his design from those animated cut scenes from link's awakening's re make , you'll realize that they are so similar that it could the same link , i hope this helps
Honestly, I forgot about Agghanim being in Link's Awakening. I didn't even see it mentioned when i was looking up where the game was supposed to be in the timeline originally either. That's a great point. I guess that game wasn't originally up in the air.
A theory I really like that could explain how the timeline came together is that what is known as a Dragon Break occurs , which is a concept in the original Elder Scrolls where every possible result of an event happens and creates a new timeline ( in ES1's case the game's 6 endings ) and eventually those timelines coming back together after said events , and the theory is that a Dragon Break occured in the Zelda timeline , with the 2 Sages of Time Zelda being responsible for it , Ocarina of Time's SoT Zelda causing the separation and ToTK's SoT Zelda causing the timelines to merge back together . The 3 separated timelines still happened but the characters in ToTK don't know so all of the contradicting information we see in ToTK is how the people in the new timeline rationalize the event . I know I have done a poor job at explaining it so I am just going to direct you to where I got the theory , that being Thinking at Max Vollume's video on it : ruclips.net/video/Uc9aFb6FVsE/видео.html
I never looked for a timeline in the Zelda franchise. they all felt like their own game so I just treated them as a new story told within that universe.
most of the games don't relate to each other beyond ocarina of time, majoras mask, wind waker, and twilight princess. Wind waker and twilight princess having the same ganon as ocarina, and majoras mask being an obvious direct sequel. Also breath of the wild having a direct sequel in tears of the kingdom
Complaining that the triforce wasn't a thing until the third game is like complaining that Zonai wasn't a thing until Breath of the Wild "and then they had to retcon them into being people from the sky in the next game." Yeah, that's how lore works, it gets built upon over time.
I think the past totk still takes place in the timeline. Just far in the future and I think the Zonai are hyleans that stayed in the sky. I don’t think it was ever confirmed in the game that the ruins, like the temple of time, weren’t in the past of totk so it’s possible the founding of hyrule was a refounding.
Makes sense, with the Zonai and Hylians being able to produce fertile offspring. That and in the flashbacks we see, the Rito were around during the founding of BoTW and TotK Hyrule, and they literally didn't exist until Wind Waker. I think most people are freaking out over nothing when it comes to the supposed retcons in TotK.
i agree my head cannon is that they came as a way to reintroduce the goddesses blood back into the royal family. Maybe that’s why our Zelda was struggling with her powers, the holy blood had spread too thin after so many years
My personal theory is that BOTW/TOTK take place in a NEW timeline created when Link time travelled to kill Demise in the past in Skyward Sword. Although that still raises the question of, where the hell did the Zonai come from if Hylians lived in the sky at that point. Unless they are even earlier, from before the war with Demise, and most were wiped out. It'd be interesting if they are the source of the more advanced technology that Lanayru used to make robots.
Cackling in my corner with a 4th interpretation of totk time travel where it is placed firmly in an actual timeline between skyward sword and minish cap. The reason Rauru is an owl in oot is the lingering desire to return to form (being mostly animal) What do you mean im crying its cackling. It makes sense. I swear it does.
I gotta continue oot tbh that game looks mad fun! I also already know double what I knew before this video through this video sothat tells you everything about how educated I am on the series...
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
Cringe millennial humor made this completely unwatchable. My god the cringe killed me
Whats wrong with it
Okay and?? Lol
cringe millennial humor made this completely unreadable. My god the cringe killed me
Bro, you're not an airplane. You don't have to announce your departure. Just leave.
Liked it. Enjoy each generation’s creativity and humor. Quit being a fuddy duddy, buddy.
I love that at one point it was canon that Link’s awakening took place through one black loading screen in Zelda II
i would like... but you're at 69
I honestly kinda like that version of the timeline better tbh, i think it's a cool little detail.
Can you please explain where you saw this information?
@@batofdestiny 8:12
@@jasonbenfield1484 Same. It definitely makes more sense for it to be after ALtTP, but the idea of a Zelda game happening inside another Zelda game is pretty fun.
I love how they eventually gave up and told us to come up with our own timelines
They were pretty vague with BOTW being at the end of the timeline. Like there are three separate timelines so does that mean all of them merged?
@@finnheisenheim8274 I have a theory, what if each game basically branch the timeline, everything will make more sense than only ocarina split. It’s more of a tree and tears of the kingdom might not be that far from Skyward Sword.
Basically went from no timeline kind of like Final Fantasy (each game is it's own universe) to then shoehorning in timelines because of fan service. It was never the original goal save for specific titles. Then they kind of got sloppy with it, reconned some things, and now it's kind of a singularity reset of sorts with BOTW to end the timeline complexity. TOTK throws a wrench into everything because as best I can tell, it was never planned to happen. They saw how profitable BOTW was and didn't want the hype to die, so they rushed it out without sticking to the original plan of "fixing" the timeline problem.
@@finnheisenheim8274 I'm pretty sure what they meant was botw was the inevitable endpoint of all timelines. Like no matter what anyone does breath of the wild will always be the outcome, So breath of the wild could technically be In ANY of the timelines.
While it still doesn't make sense, it certainly makes more sense than the timelines fusing somehow.
@@finnheisenheim8274 I mean BOTW still has that one item description about the world being covered by the Great Sea so either the three timelines have a great sea or it has to happen after wind waker
It's pretty funny that Eiji always tries his best to clear up the timeline while Miyamoto always just finds a way to mess it up again
And what’s even funnier, is the fact that the one who knows better about Zelda story and lore, is Yoshiaki Koizumi, but he never says anything at all. XD
Well Miyamoto is the same guy that messed up Paper Mario with Sticker Star and made that stupid “Mario Mandate”.
@@Zelink108 you must be new to the Internet
And then Eiji messed it up with ToTK. Hopefully he can redeem himself, but his interviews make that seem… unlikely.
I always personally speculated that the reason Ganondorf has the triforce already during his execution is because Zelda sent Link back to the child timeline after he’d already obtained the triforce of courage, so the triforce of power and wisdom went to ganondorf and Zelda automatically the same way it did when ganondorf touches it in Ocarina. This could also explain why you find the triforce shattered in the Wind Waker and have to repair it.
That doesn’t explain why it’s shattered. The King of Red Lions specifically says it’s because The Hero of Time went on an adventure away from Hyrule that separated him from the aspects that made him a hero. It was talking about Majora’s Mask.
Made alot of sense to me tbh
That's basically actually what happened. The king only believed Link's claims about Ganondorf BECAUSE he bore the Triforce of Courage. Otherwise he would've probably brushed it off as some kid spouting BS.
@@ElFreakinCid he also knew about the master sword, the gems, the ocarina of time, the sacred realm, and knew Zelda's Lulaby and the Song of Time. Link had plenty of proof with him
That's exactly right. This is evident by the fact that Link bore the Triforce mark on his hand in the ending scene of Ocarina of Time in both the original and remake - not a mistake, a deliberate choice.
The interesting part is that this technically isn't the SAME Triforce he had in the Adult Timeline. Like you said, you have to find the shards of the Triforce in Wind Waker; the King says that the Hero of Time was "separated from the elements that made him a hero" (in the Japanese version he's explicitly referring to the Triforce), which occurs when Link is sent back in time by Zelda. However, the Triforce still "belonged" to him; therefore, he automatically gained the Triforce from THAT timeline (the newly created Child Timeline), and thus the other two pieces were automatically given to Zelda and Ganondorf. This is what the sages in Twilight Princess refer to as a "divine prank" - the reason Ganondorf has the Triforce in that timeline for apparently no reason.
It's always fun when fans realize Creators spend less time thinking about their creations than the fans do.
I mean, the fact they even came up with a timeline is because of what fans were doing in the first place.
I think the most interesting part is that they couldn't think of where to put the first four games, so they dumped them off in a theoretical branch of the timeline. You'd think that wouldn't be needed.
You seem like a bootlicker of Nintendo
Nintendo's team did excellent work quashing the social contagion of ultrafan "canon", as stories should be the priority. Let's hope everyone else does it too.
Let me fix that for you: Creators spend less time thinking about shit that doesn't matter than their weirdo fans do.
A timeline wasn't necessary. Fans wanted one. The series only had a few direct sequels aside from that the games were more an anthology any time a previous games events were relevant they'd tell us that. WW had the opening, TP had the story from the sages. No timeline was needed.
I love how every game mostly makes chronological sense in relation to the one before it but then over 30 years it becomes a big pile of time spaghetti
Ngl Tears of the Kingdom and Breath of the Wild only make sense in its own pocket universe. It has zero connection to other games except maybe reference to Skyward Sword.
i mean it completely makes sense from the point of view of just trying to make a game with very little concern for the larger pore and more just like "ok so it will fit in with the last one me made, and that's good enough. whatever."
@@cunnyman BOTW and TOTK have references to basically every Zelda game. It really doesn't make any sense and it's probably it's own universe. Also, both of these games won't answer my biggest burning question: WHERE IS THE TRIFORCE!? There is Triforce symbols EVERYWHERE and it's isn't mentioned ONCE! What's up with that!?
So yeah, BOTW and TOTK don't make any sense.
And ocerina of time… and majoras mask, and wind waker, and plenty of other games
As he told maybe in breath of the wild, the other two timeline are myths, will it be because the timeline information have been lost and only the player(us) knew the timeline. What zelda is telling is misled by the myths that have many flaws
I'm of the opinion that, while making botw, a bunch of the important Zelda people sat down and were like "we're all tired of this timeline stuff, let's make it not a thing anymore" so they added stuff from every timeline and when totk came around they went "seriously? Was it not clear enough? We're going full reboot"
Sounds like what Disney did to Star Wars
So that's why they've released an updated timeline a year after Botw. Makes sense
Just chuck it out the window. This is a shame because I was so happy to seeTwilight princess (favourite game) and skyward sword references ( I loved it, but it was too long) in BOTW
@@juanarocha8629 the references are still great
@@juanarocha8629 references can exist without continuity. Continuity is only valuable if every work in the continuity benefits. And the Zelda timeline offers no benefit to the games.
The “Zelda Timeline Document” that Aonuma and Miyamoto keep referring to has to be some damn bar napkin that now has so much pen ink and drink stains on it from continued amendments that it is now incomprehensible, leading to each new screwed up timeline retcon.
This is definitely the case. The development team went out on one of those post-work bar hangout sessions Japanese business men do and decided to have fun with their players' obsession.
It was fine before botw and totk
I love how in this context, every new zelda game is like a massive new burden 😂
Hahaha yep. But at least he's not one of the Zelda youtubers desperately trying to say Tears doesn't retcon anything.
@@DavidRPitt Pretty clear WIld and Tears are simply a new timeline. Maybe split somehwere before Hyrule's founding and when Ganondorf first appears, but definitly new.
It’s kinda funny that in the timeline, before Windwaker, there was only one Link and he had to kill Ganon like 20 times cause the sages could never seal him form more than a month
How many times do I have to teach you this lesson, old man?
@@unosocongorra5779 Beat me to it lmao
Honestly it would be funnier if this was the timeline, every game happening within a month of each other because Ganondorf cannot be kept sealed for long by the sages.
It would collapse everything into a single timeline and just have ridiculous Zelda lore be chaotic and incomprehensible.
Okay but let's be honest, Zelda Monopoly is the most important game in the timeline.
What about the wand of gamelon?
Reggie, take notes!
what about the time-break?
@@TheKaiserhaller but what if I want them to be
What about Link’s Crossbow Training?
I really like the old canon of Link's Awakening being in the middle of Zelda 2 its creative
I’ve been championing the refounded Hyrule theory for weeks now. It works in the continuity while also giving the Zelda team basically complete freedom going forward
Fr. Hyrule was definitely destroyed at some point.
Totally agree. Plus it plays into the cyclical apocalypticism of Demise’s curse and how no matter how many thousands of years pass, there will always be another incarnation of malice, spirit of the hero and blood of the goddess to fight in this endless battle.
if this would be true maybe the Zonai are descendants of New Hyrule (like WAY after) and wanted to reclaim their old home land and unflood the old destroyed Hyrule using their advance technology and secret stones.
@@pirategamer6630 my guess is a few hundred or thousand years after Twilight Princess.
@@jalixfontin10
Yeah, seems that after TP the kingdom collapsed. The royal blood survives in Sonia until she marries Rauru and, we can guess they have a child. And if not, probably a brother continued the bloodline.
My understanding of BotW’s timeline placement was always that the events 10,000 years ago, didn’t happen like a thousand years after the other games, but that there were like 50,000 to 100,000 years in between.
The calamity is mentioned as a repeating cycle as far as I remember, so I don’t think it only happened twice.
"see that? That was links awakening." I laughed so hard, you got my subscription.
Shigiru Miamoto is known to not let a good story get in the way of gameplay and actively ignoring story when he wants to.
Yes, because gameplay couldn't exist if there were a story getting in the way. How that even make sense in Shigeru's head is beyond me. Oh, I know, because he's a liar, too lazy to write a cohesive story. And that's all it is.
@@Arcessitor I don't think Miyamoto is lazy, I think he's just an old stubborn man stuck in his ways. He has a very strict philosophy when creating games and he refuses to change what he thinks works. I just wish he would learn to embrace good story telling because it can elevate a good game to heights he couldn't imagine. It's possible to have BOTH fun and engaging gameplay alongside a great story. He just needs to step aside and let the young blood take over. He's killed the Mario RPG'S to the point where I actually lost a lot of respect for him.
@@Arcessitor You can't call a man who made one of the most successful series in gaming lazy. Do you know how much work goes into developing a video game? Especially games as big and complex as Zelda games? It's not a job for "lazy" people. He probably had to sleep in the office sometimes because he had so much work to do. He probably didn't care as much for the story because his brain was fried through all of the hard programming, developing, and meetings he had to endure. It's easy for us to care about the story because we aren't the ones having to do the work.
True, but in this case its actually the STORY of the games that are mucking up the timeline, not the gameplay... i mean they could have the same gameplay, but have a completely different story
@@MonteCreations Shigeru Miyamoto, is not a story teller, he doesnt care about story telling.... That doesnt mean he is afraid that story will ruin the gameplay, he doesnt want the story mess up his creative process, himself. so he keeps things vague so he can have a free out of jail card for his new ideas. They now wanting robots as enemies and earth shattering magic abilities.... Where were the Zonai in previous Zeldas? Who was Rauru? Nowhere and noone where the answers to these. they just created them on the whim.... That drags down some franchises more than others.It is fine in Mario (although Princess Peach has been kidnapped so many times it breaks any sense of verrisimilitude) but it destroyed the Paper Mario spin off and it kinda convolutes TLoZ unesserily much.
Incredibly well made! I also personally like the "Refounding" theory. They gave themselves SOOO MUCH room to work with after BOTW and they still had to mess with the old timeline, it blows my mind.
I just think calling it 'the imprisoning war' again is a bit on the nose, even for a series known for reoccurring names.
OP also forgot that a new Hyrule had already been established a century after Wind Waker in Spirit Tracks, so his point about Hyrule having to be re-founded again in at least one timeline is invalid.
I prefer to assume the Tears of the Kingdom references are actually about the Imprisoning War from A Link to the Past and the original founding of Hyrule pre-Minish Cap, and are simply told very inaccurately since after tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of years the stories no doubt have been distorted. The paintings themselves could very well have been made thousands of years after the fact, when the story had changed a lot.
I haven't played the game yet, so I'm hoping nothing else in it will invalidate this idea.
@@DaveGrean The Imprisoning War is just a reference by name only. Completely different war than that from A Link to the Past.
@@J01789 Why did you reply to my comment without even reading it, lmao? Why would you randomly assume this needed to be explained to me, lmao
@Affront to Humanity I did read it. I'm confirming something to a game you claimed you haven't played, and you preferred to assume an idea of a game you haven't played. I felt it warranted a response. If you didn't want responses, maybe you shouldn't be posting publicly, then acting like a dick. 🤡
Also the zonai living in the sky makes sense if the ground was flooded
I like the idea that Hyrule Warriors royally messed up the timeline, and Tears of the Kingdom's flashbacks are what the history of this horribly stitched together world is now, with elements from a whole lot of different bits of history all thrown together. It also explains some of the whole "fairytale thing", if they are stories passed down from the people who were pulled across from other timelines, but that didn't actually happen in this one.
this theory actually slaps
But hyrule warriors isn't cannon
@@ezequielocegueda It's still the one piece that pieces everything together.
@@theextremeanimator4721 THE ONE PIECEEEEE THE ONE PIECE IS REALLLLLLL
This was my theory as well, it just fixes SO many issues.
It even explains how the worship of Hylia returned in BotW after literally never being mentioned in any other games since the very start of the timeline. But because Fi crossed over during the Hyrule Warriors event, now everyone knows that Hylia exists.
I always just treat the franchise as an anthology: there’s some direct sequels but the whole continuity of the series is the shared vibes. Done. Answers like the entire thing 😂
I dig this attitude haha
Wholeheartedly agree
This is how it always should've been.
I think of lot of nerds fail to realize that art is subjective and has subjective meaning. You can interpret things different than the artist intended. It's not actual history to be discovered. They are stories and that's it.
I'm glad I'm not the only person that feels this way. I was always perfectly content for Zelda games to stand on their own, united by their common themes and central legend that transcends worlds and histories.
No timelines, no branching paths, no "what if the hero failed" alternate universes.
Just The Legend of Zelda.
And fans are then welcome to make their own connections where they see fit.
I'm okay with the idea that some of the games take place in the same world, but forcing them into a rigid timeline feels far too restrictive for my tastes.
What I’ve always believed since BOTW, and TOTK only served to reinforce, is that after years upon years of timeline-related questions and the higher ups realizing just how convoluted their own lore had become, BOTW was meant to be an effective reboot of the series. Do away with split timelines and tell a singular story that reinterprets all the significant events that came before in a newer, simpler way. That was necessary for them as creatives so as to not drive themselves insane dealing with the mess of their poor planning, but they know a lot of long time fans will be pissed if they admit that basically nothing from any of the previous games is canon anymore, so they can’t just come out and say it.
Sure. But then, the easiest way to achieve this is stating that BotW and TotK take place after every previous one, after a timeline mixing (which would be nice to be explained by the way), and that this is a new Hyrule founding, and that events are bound to happen again and again (new Ganondorf, new Zelda, new Link). But they need to be consistent from here on. Which I suspect they just do not give a fuck
I think it would be really cool if there was a game that revolves around the mixing of the timelines. It would tie everything nicely together, while simplifying the story in the future since all the timeline timetravel chaos would be resolved.
It's not a reboot of anything, and it doesn't "do away with" anything. It's so far after everything that whatever happened before doesn't need to affect what happens here. And frankly, I'm sick and tired of people claiming every attempt at a new direction, reimagining, etc. with a long-running series is the creators wiping everything else from canon.
@@ElFreakinCid you literally just described a reboot
"Poor planning" is a strange way of looking at it IMO, video games are massive projects that frequently change their scope throughout development and the story has traditionally (I say that because obviously games have become way more cinematic over the past two decades and motion-captured cutscenes require planning) taken a backburner to the development of gameplay systems and testing/QA. Who would have believed you in the early 80s, when the gaming market had cratered, that in 30 years people would be demanding a consistent story across three decades of development teams with hundreds of different employees.
I love the theory that Hyrule Warriors converged the 3 timelines, and after that came Breath of the Wild, despite Nintendo saying that Hyrule Warriors was non-canonical, it's still the best way to merge timelines, since there, we have the mixture of all of them
Ironically I first heard that from MatPat, but it actually kind of makes sense and would be hilarious to think about.
I feel like the only reason why people react this way to TotK's many retcons is because we went over 10 years of safe places in the timeline.
Nintendo always stated that changes in history/retcons can and will happen eventually. That's why they never really canonised anything in the first place. But we just got used to a fixed narrative over time.
*Edit:*
Hyrule Historia has this to say about Zelda's lore:
"This chronicle merely collects information that is *believed to be true at this time,* and there are many obscured and unanswered secrets that still lie within the tale. As the stories and storytellers of Hyrule change, so, too does its history. Hyrule's history is a continuously woven tapestry of events. *Changes that seem inconsequential, disregarded without a shrug, could evolve at some point and hatch new legends and, perhaps, change this tapestry of history itself."*
Zelda lore was always meant with retcons in mind. Only now this statement really took effect.
Just treat Hyrule Historia as a bunch of "historical conjecture", how it was always meant to be.
Yeah I'm starting to see just how right they were in saying "we don't want to recognize the zelda timeline as canon cause it limits our ability to be creative"
trying to stitch zelda games together in some cohesive history is painfully hard. Harder than teaching someone fnaf lore. It's better to look at it like all the games are different retellings of the same events. Skyward sword is the start of the timeline, TOTK is probably the end of the timeline, that's all that is concrete.
They didn't have any issue selling books canonizing the bullshit three timelines and making money.
@@Jenna_Talia TOTK happens in another different dimension. It's not related to previous games besides BOTW.
@@cesarsuarez7538 That's interesting. Because the book you're referencing has also this to say:
"This chronicle merely collects information that is *believed to be true at this time,* and there are many obscured and unanswered secrets that still lie within the tale. As the stories and storytellers of Hyrule change, so, too does its history. Hyrule's history is a continuously woven tapestry of events. *Changes that seem inconsequential, disregarded without a shrug, could evolve at some point and hatch new legends and, perhaps, change this tapestry of history itself."*
Hyrule's lore was always meant with retcons in mind. And only now that statement really took effect.
@@cesarsuarez7538 And I don't believe that to be true. Nintendo simply had this cool idea of making the Zonai so important to the lore that they created Hyrule itself. So they just retconned it that way. Simple as that.
The whole legend of zelda timeline should all be contained in Legend of Zelda, Adventures of Link. A missed opportunity if you ask me.
interesting... how does this work exactly?
@@pacebro0119 well did you notice the map from Zelda 1 in Zelda 2 and how Spectacle Rock (the 1st game's 9th dungeon) gives you a heart container or something in Zelda 2
@@CassiusStelar I'm convinced.
Honestly, that makes perfect sense. That's why it's called "Adventures of Link," as it contains all the other games comprising all of Link's adventures. :3
Agreed
Brilliant video. Very funny and informative in equal measure. I hadn’t come across most of the Miyamoto and Anouma quotes before. You’ve got to wonder if they’re legitimately trolling us at this point!
That last dungeon image is called a manji. In Buddhism it represents internal/external harmony and is typically the icon used to mark Buddhist temples or shrines on older maps
Oh of course. 1939 germany was just buddhist. Symbols are resignified, that thing has a different meaning today for the world than it did to buddhists i dont know how many hundreds or years ago
@@brenomanhaes9322 They flipped it backwards. The Buddhist symbol faces opposite to that of the Nazis and had been around thousands of years before the 1930s and 40s.
Japan has a HEAVY Buddhist roots. Symbols yes change meaning, but on the place it was used for so long, it still have it's original meaning.The Zelda series/ Nintendo, and any asiatic developer has a pass to use it (giving it have connections with the religious motif)
@@ElementalAer whats the connection between zelda and buddhism?
I get what y'all are saying, but the reasons you provided are the reasoning actual n*zis often use to do what is famously known as dog whistling. That symbol's presence in japanes pop culture, like in anime, most of the time has nothing to do with buddhism, but the mangaka thought "it looks cool" and "yeah lets fight the system", which doesnt make them any less guilty for disseminating nazi propaganda
Never heard of the theory that links awakening happens during adventure of link...I weirdly like that idea a lot
Doesn’t matter if it’s a theory. The official timeline contradicts it.
Yeah, it was a popular theory once, that Links Awakening happens when Link sails to eastern Hyrule in the middle of Zelda 2.
@Robert It's still fun to think about even if it isn't canon.
I wish they had it as happening in between the Oracle games..
@@Robert-tl2vg the official timeline is not set in stone either
This video is so insanely entertaining and well edited. Please keep stuff like this coming. It's the kind of stuff I sub too. Also Miyamoto probably has a panic attack everytime someone asks him about the timeline.
Every time it's brought up to Aonuma, he laughs like "oh, this again?"
Either that or a migraine
My favorite thing about Zelda Timeline videos is that it's starting to mirror real-life archeology/ancient history - we have multiple differing accounts, each of which claims to be true and has evidence to support it, some key events keep coming up but are described differently, and there's no single theory that unites them all.
B I B L E
Really enjoying this!
Btw, just in case you didn't know, the swastika symbol is not just a Nazi thing. From Wikipedia:
"The swastika (卐 or 卍) is an ancient religious and cultural symbol, predominantly in various Eurasian, as well as some African and American cultures, now also widely recognized for its appropriation by the Nazi Party and by neo-Nazis.[1][2][3][4] It continues to be used as a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism.[5][6][7][8][1] It generally takes the form of a cross,[A] the arms of which are of equal length and perpendicular to the adjacent arms, each bent midway at a right angle."
Minecraft mods shamelessly banning me for putting up symbols of peace and love at spawn:
Yeah I had to have a whole argument with my teacher over this crap because I was doing a report on Jainism, a religion that uses this symbol with great importance, so when I had to go over it as part of my project she got mad at me for the picture in my PowerPoint. I had to sit their and explain while she stared at me in disgust the actual meaning of the symbol and how nazis many many years later bastardized it by rotating it 45 degrees and calling it theirs. In retrospect I actually kinda had fun with that because I got to insinuate that she was ignorantly intolerant of another religion when the entire point of this project was to open our minds and explore the religious culture of other nations.
I always like to imagine that breath of the wild and tears of the kingdom are their own separate thing, with all the events happening before simply games that don’t exist.
How could you forget about Link‘s Crossbow Training? 😱
Also, irony aside, keep in mind that Breath of the Wild‘s Hyrule Warriors spin-off Age of Calamity is apparently also official canon, thus introducing yet another Timeline split 😅
When did they say this was canon?
@@Ultranger let me turn it around: where did they say it’s not? It’s obviously not against Zelda canon like, say, the first Hyrule Warriors or Link, Zelda and Ganondorf’s appearances in Super Smash Bros., so without them explicitly stating it’s not canon I’m gonna accept it as such. Since it’s an alternate timeline anyway, it doesn’t matter to either BotW or TotK anyway.
@user-dj3ei7kp1r it is a prequel of sorts, but it starts to split into an alternate timeline from the moment the little robot jumps back in time. So its events no longer lead into BotW.
@@smintili But if Link dying leads to multiple timelines, who's to say there can't be a timeline where the robot didn't go back in time?
@@sirblankface7607certainly there can be. That would be the timeline we see play out in Breath of the Wild, if I recall the beginning of Age of Calamity correctly.
Honestly I kinda like the myth theory. It makes the past games feel more fun knowing you’re playing in some passed-down story about an old hero who saved Hyrule
Almost like a...... Legend.
@@justdanceparadisearchive3888 yeah where zelda is 99% of the time not the main focus
I'd like to think that each game is cannon in their own sense, while the other games are mere myths in those games.
Before I discovered Zelda theory videos it was crystal clear to me that this was the intention.
In the game you're playing the other games are myths or LEGENDS.
I mean every game builds it's own backstory, they only directly connect back to a previous title in very few exceptions.
And that's brilliant! It allows them to develop the themes, to "know" characters you technically havn't met and if they would lean into this, they could even make some kind of philosophical commentary with it.
there was no timeline planned. it was a ploy by Nintendo to sell timeline books. the first timeline book was completely reorganized in the second version.
If you really think about it it becomes obvious that every game in the series is actually just a dream had by the wind fish and takes place during the loading screen between west and east hyrule in Zelda II
at least, it'd spare them of a lot of death and disaster~
between the ranch ruins, the slate at the bottom of the royal secret passage, and the rito/zora EXISTING IN THE SAME PLACE, I like the in-universe explanation that the old games are myths, almost like a greek or norse epic that got told and told and changed and told some more, but the irl explanation that it's a hard retcon/reboot makes the most sense to me.
I think there are two very easy ways to place Rauru's Hyrule founding in the timeline:
1. After the events of skyward sword, the remaining humans on the sky evolved into the zonai, then descended and founded Hyrule
2. After a still unknown event, the timelines did merge, but the fact that there were 3 different landmasses on top of eachother with 3 different histories and 3 different times made everything such an utter chaos that the zonai, who were made by the goddesses specifically for this occasion, had to descend to rearrange and refound Hyrule
Honestly, in a 4th timeline branching from skyward sword that takes place so far into the future it’s after all the other zelda games (or at least similar adventures) Is the best theory imo
It makes sense too because demise died in two separate timelines and the one where he died as the imprisoned is where Zelda and link found hyrule and the timeline where he dies as demise skyward sword can’t happen or doesn’t need to happen because demise is already dead meaning that hylias reincarnation might not be Zelda at all and may have been Sonia or hylia didn’t reincarnate at all making it so things fundamentally occur differently
@@cavemanbuddyolpal And so when ganondorf still appears in this alternate SS timeline, Link isn't around to defend Hyrule, and Zelda can't do much as her concerns are with the master sword and trying to get back to the present day.
Also I don't see why Hyrule needs to have been immediately founded after SS, to my memory it wasn't stated as such and the people of the sky would have to take a fair bit of time to integrate with the surface world.
@@Jenna_Talia also it makes sense that some people stayed in the sky and mutated into the zonai, since they don't have hylia's protection anymore they biologically would need to change
@@cavemanbuddyolpal Yeah, Skyward itself has time-travel shenanigans, so the time-line can branch right there (instead of branching in Ocarina of Time). It was foolish for Nintendo to mention twilight, sky and time in a story cutscene tho, that creates needlessly confusion. Seems obvious they didn't had a BOTW sequel planned, BOTW looked like a continuation, the imprisoning war that was mentioned in previous games, Calamity Ganon could be a previous Ganon that was sealed, he almost resurrected at full power but Zelda stopped it, etc.. it's still confusing and messy, but the entire series is messy, so whatever. But TOTK basically erased all the possibilities of BOTW being connected, this game looks lie a 4th time-line indeed
I've been looking for a video like this for ages, I was really curious what the story was in the simpler times when there were only 3 games out
Well I can tell you that Hyrule as a kingdom was founded in between the very first Zelda and the second one, which despite their differences in styles are basically one of the direct sequal groupings in the games. Which is a little detail that's often ignored. So even getting to the third game causes some disconnect problems between the two stories about when it was founded and where let alone anything else. So there really isn't a simpler time even when you get just 3 games in. Just a whole lot less pieces to convolutedly try to stick together. Along with other issues like the Master sword not existing in the first two games along with a few other things.
Random theory a friend and I came up with, what if the Zonai are time travelers and went back in time to insert themselves into Hyrule's history for some reason or another. This theory is based on no evidence and a lethal dose of Zonai =Twili copium. Nintendo pls give us DLC to clarify this mess.
If Nintendo gives us a DLC It will probably be another 40 shrines and 4 cutscenes of Zelda and Sonnia drinking tea in the garden.
That's just grasping at straws. Nintendo is just lazy.
@@cesarsuarez7538 actually on point
Everytime someone whishes Nintendo to "clarify this mess", it gets more messy and complicated
@@geminisfl it wasnt horrible before but now its a full reboot
I hope we get a third game in the newest Hyrule that creates a time loop back to the beginning of the timeline just to make people explode from frustration
My idea was a Prequel to Botw that focuses on the Calamity 10,000 years ago, in which we get a completely new and retconned origin of the Master Sword lmao
Also furry Link
@@pancakes8670isn't that what hyrule heroes is
@@HeterosexuaI do you mean Hyrule Warriors?
@@HeterosexuaI No, Hyrule Warriors 1 us not canon and Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity (Which one can argue it's also not canon to an extent) is about the events 100 years before BotW, not the ones 10,000 years before
@@pancakes8670 Sounds like we make Twilight Princess with Botw gameplay
Personally I like the idea that each of the oracle games take place on different timelines but that the events were similar enough that the were able to converge. If we wanna get meta us using the code for the extra content is what fuses those timeline together.
All they need to do is make the original Hyrule Warriors canon. It solves everyone's problems by treating each series as alternate spacetime realities that can relate to each other but don't necessarily have to. In short, the Doctor said it best, "It's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff."
See, if the community could just accept that the Zelda series is actually set in a jerrimy bearrimy timeline, we'd finally have peace
Did you not notice the MAAAAASIVE similarity of the Dragon's Tears memories to Dr. Who? The whole thing is like the video tapes in Blink, and then Zelda hanging on to the master sword for 10s of millennia was similar to programming the sonic screwdriver to work on decrypting something and then using the same screwdriver that was 400 years older right next to him.
13:35
If you look very closely when Link meet up with Zelda after he goes back in time at the end of oot he has the Triforce on the back of his hand so logically that would mean the other two pieces went to Zelda and Ganondorf respectfully and they kept them until the events of TP
My guess would be that the triforce exists beyond time. Since the triforce splits and goes into the trio in the adult timeline, the same had to happen regardless of the altered events in the child timeline.
@@bgmarts1320 Both the Tri-Force aswell as the Master Sword can ascend and overcome time itself. So yeah, you're absolutely right. Also the reason, why there is actually no split after Skyward Sword (aside of the blue bracelet proving the timeline is linear), because Demise was beaten in a realm unaffected by time itself. Beating him there had the implication, that the timeline was put back in order (eventho logic still says otherwise, as Demise was pretty much pulled out of existence, eventho there is an Imprisoned, but Nintendo and a logical timeline was never a working pair lolz)
So the "Founding of Hyrule" explained in Tears of the Kingdom is supposed to have been just prior to the first Calamity, based on some things you find out in this game's Memories. It's not the first time that they've shown that a new version of Hyrule was founded on the ruins of the old one.
But then surely the other games wouldn’t have been too far off from that point eh? Rauru claims to never have heard the name Link before, but then they end up calling their kingdom “Hyrule”, the same name used over and over again for other kingdoms. Surely titular figures such as Link and Zelda would have also carried over.
@@Ace_Angelo Tbh it sounds like you're just nitpicking details
@@Ace_Angelo I don't think Link's name ever survives in the history books. Anytime Link is mentioned in a historical context, he was always referred to as "the Hero of _____". So Rauru may know of Link but only knows Link as "the Hero of Time" or "the Hero of Winds" because Link's titles are the only things that survive.
To add to that, before BOTW none of the Links are actually definitively named Link, since we can change their names.
@@IHateGenericCereal Well, they are canonically, it's just that history isn't kind to them and the name never seems to be remembered. As was pointed out above, even the games themselves only have people remember them as "the Hero of x".
One interesting theory that I heard is that after spirit tracks, four swords adventure, and Zelda II the timelines merge together due to Zelda being the sage of time creating a brand new timeline that shares similarities to all three timelines. This theory also explains how you can find tunics belonging to Zelda 1 link, twilight princess link, and wind waker link in the same game
This was such a good synopsis. I am definitely in the camp of TOTK revealing how their modern iteration of Hyrule was founded, not the Ocarina/Twilight Princess Hyrule. After such a ridiculously long history, I think it would only make sense that it would have to be founded again and I have no issue thinking of Sonia as having the blood of Hylia. Even Ganondorf showing up in the same way he did in Ocarina points to Demise's curse still going strong. Just like Link is born again and again with the same blondish hair, blue eyes, and left-handedness (*silent tears*), now we have all the evidence I need to see that Ganondorf does the same. He was reborn as a Gerudo warrior with similar features but isn't a 1:1 copy. Honestly my biggest lore gripe with BOTW and TOTK was Hylia herself no longer being connected to Zelda, that screws with me. Good vid!
I was so sure that this had to be posted by a huge channel, the quality and editing were on point! Great video, will definitely be watching whatever comes next
He tried to replicate the Clickbait techniques used by larger channels, that’s for sure.
@@Robert-tl2vg how is it clickbait lmao it’s just edited well
My personal theory is that there was a full timeline merger rather than a convergence. Sort of like a canon in-lore reboot. In the gap between the age of myths and breath of the wild every timeline was smashed together into one combined one, with past events reshuffling details around to make as much sense as possible. The Zonai are like a weird combination of all the elements of the sky people and magic tribes like the Twili. I also think the Depths are sort of a weird divine dumping ground where the gods crammed their unwanted leftovers after the merger, which is why lost souls, monsters, and demons end up there but also artifacts from previous games that didn't really fit into the new merged world and its history. That also explains how we got formerly mutually exclusive elements from the fractured timelines together at the same time, like having both the Rito and the Zora coexist despite the Rito previously originating FROM the Zora.
So they basically did a Crisis on Infinite Earths on the Zelda timeline? I actually really like that and might steal your theory. Thank you for your contribution
Well game theory already made a video that just explains why Hyrule warriors should be canon as the whole timeline merging plot of that game can lead into botw
As nice as that theory sounds, the merger/recongervance theory are 100% reliant on one certain game being made canon...
Hyrule Warriors.
@@pirategamer6630 not necessarily
@@pirategamer6630 even then the game ends with everyone going back home to their own timeline so ... still no proof
In defense of Princess Zelda, you seem to be expecting omnipotence. Wisdom is knowing what to do with the knowledge you have. She had no idea when Ganondorf would start his attack, that the Master Sword would put Link to sleep, or that Ganon would eventually rise again.
I think you meant "omniscience", which means all-knowing. "Omnipotence" means all-powerful.
@@Nite-Mite In defense of Game Master, you seem to be expecting omniscience.
any explanation is good as another. makes as much sense that despite ganondorf having the "power", link always just straight up beats his ass, and despite zelda being the "wisdom", ganon always outwits her, and even tho zelda tends to fail a lot, she has the "courage" to keep on trying.
She never shows any wisdom like ever ever though
@@AL-nv4gk Like how, unlike her father, she can tell Ganondorf has evil intentions. Or teaching the Hero of Time how to warp. Or knowing how to keep Ganondorf off her trail for seven years.
Honestly I really like the idea of Hyrule Warriors being what brings the timelines together as it brings together heroes from all three timelines. It would honestly make a lot of sense
New theory. BotW and TotK are a reboot, but the reboot actually started with skyward sword. ALBW and TH are still old canon though. Also the Four Swords games are banished to their own canon too. This means that all games within a canon are now related by direct prequel/sequel status except BotW and SS (Also links awakening, but that doesn't influence anything anyway.) It also means one Ganon/Ganondorf per canon, and thats cool.
Honestly, the skyward sword split 4th timeline is probably the one that makes the most sense considering the writer of skyward sword Hidemaro Fujibayashi, is the director of this game and botw.
I've never heard Miyamoto referred to as "Shiggy" but I love it
Fun fact: “Schiggy” is the German name for Squirtle 😄
My personal theory on the convergence of timelines leading to Breath of the Wild, is that it's Farore's doing. Din, Nayru, and Farore are each the goddesses of power, wisdom and courage respectively. The mind/body/spirit triad of the Triforce which should be clear to anyone. I believe Breath of the Wild is the third Oracle game we never got, a quest for Farore, the spirit portion. In Ages, you solve puzzles, displaying wisdom, and time travel, working with the internal logic of the world. In Seasons you fight hard, displaying power, working with the physical nature of the world. Each game involves, if you link them, Ganon's mind and his body. In Breath of the Wild, Ganon's spirit is a literal malevolent cloud hanging over Hyrule. The Calamity. The world is without hope, everyone is depressed and just subsisting. Your goal is to restore the _courage_ of the previous champions, overtly, and the world at large as you quest around Hyrule.
See, I think, when the timeline split, Nayru was all "more time, more good!" She'd love complexity there. More time, more possibility of thought across the timelines, more history, more knowledge, more wisdom as different permutations play out. Din, more timelines more bodies, more power, she's cool with that, too. Farore, on the other hand, would have been tortured by the split, with souls being torn across the timelines and having to be reintegrated and ripped apart on every reincarnation cycle (reincarnation definitely being a thing in Zelda). I think she deliberately reassembled Ganon's spirit (and thus Link's and Zelda's, too, thanks to Demise's curse linking them all), and drew all three timelines together. She inflicted the Calamity on the world because it was the only way to reunite everyone's souls.
Everyone's souls being reassembled at this point is why historical accounts fit all three timelines. Because it IS so far in the future that it could all be legend, but subconscious memories from every historian and archaeologist trying to explain Hyrule's past have primed their thinking. Salt here? Oh that must be from the great flood! A war against darkness in our past? Oh that was the Imprisoning War! They don't overtly "remember" these events, but just get a sense of them feeling true, because their souls remember.
Hmmmm, I like the way you think. I haven't heard a theory quite like this yet, thank you for imparting such wisdom with powerful writing and having the courage to do it hehehehe
Great video! A good friend of mine once said that observing the Zelda timeline feels like playing a game of Telephone. After finishing TotK, I'm personally in support of the hard retcon/reboot theory. Stories in Nintendo games are always afterthoughts (albeit some great ones that can stand on their own), meant to flesh out or explain away in-game mechanics. It's why major story elements in games were confined to game manuals back in the old days. Link, Zelda and Ganon(dorf) are well-established so they get recycled from game to game. Demise's curse was an excuse for Nintendo to keep doing that. This franchise is so derivative and iterative, you start to see through the "timeline" nonsense.
So I'm just gonna say this: it's not in the timeline we know. This is its own stand-alone timeline. Talking about the botw and tokt games. I'd say everything in past games happened, but very differently. These 2 games are more themed around technology. Tears and breath are in a different timeline from past games. It's the only explanation
If Nintendo really wants to make the timelines confusing they should canonize every game with tine travel shenanigans as making a timeline split and introduce some magic doodad that lets different timelines talk to eachother.
Your editing skills are god tier, you are so underrated bro
its basic editing what
@@OctoMaple many large youtubers arent as good as this
@@howlerr08 idk what kind of youtubers ur watchin but feels p basic to me. Not saying its bad i'm just saying calling it "god tier" seems a bit much
@@OctoMaple yeah I kinda over exaggerated it
Great video! Something I noticed that makes things make some more sense is realizing that there have been 3 different main creative directors throughout the series history. Up to OoT makes sense because Miyamoto was in charge. But after that he gave the series to Aonuma, who only began work on the Series with OoT which is why his games seemingly ignore the rest of them. Then, Fujibiyashi took over as creative director with Skyward Sword, and as you said, Skyward Sword up to TotK have no timeline discrepancies, in isolation
What I’m trying to say is that the directors only care about how “their” games fit together, and not the whole series. So if you split them up based on who was in charge, the timelines actually make pretty good sense
Fujibiyashi was also the director of Minish Cap and Phantom Hourglass prior to Skyward Sword
Well I wouldn't say no discrepancies with SS, sonias ears being noticeably larger and the clothing style being noticeable ancient when compared to skyloft is difficult to really put together
And actually, for tears of the kingdom they brought in a completely new writer who never worked on the "main" zelda titles before. And the first female writer too (that i know of).
And im not saying that in a negative way. Im just saying that bringing in a female writer is bound to shake things up.
Btw Botw and Totk are ocurring some time after Hyrule Warriors where EVERY SINGLE TIMELINE combined in a friciking messy Hyrule, where the zonaans existed in the past of this fourth timeline where everything combined but didnt stop the other timelines from expanding and making Hyrule Warriors occur 100 years and more before Botw. So basically They teleported link and others to an existing timeline created where Link didn't even exist as well as Zelda *I think* to the present of that timeline AND also combined pieces of every timeline into that one and making that timeline one where Zelda and link just appear and have their triforce power
I have two possible theories on how Breath Of The Wild and Tears Of The Kingdom fit with the rest of the Zelda timeline:
Theory 1: Hyrule was founded twice. Either TOTK and BOTW happened first and then something went very wrong and the surviving hylians moved to the sky before eventually Skyward Sword happened and the rest of the timelines followed, or the other games happened first and then something happened in one of the timelines that wiped out enough of Hyrule for it to no longer be considered a kingdom, and then it was re-founded by Rauru and Sonia before BOTW and TOTK happened
Theory 2: Breath Of The Wild and Tears Of The Kingdom are in a separate timeline from all the other games, but BOTW/TOTK Zelda, as the sage of time, can see and possibly even visit other timelines. And maybe on a few of these visits, some things crossed over, bringing with them the evidence of other timelines. Maybe the koroks came from the Wind Waker timeline (maybe they brought a seed from the great deku tree, or even just outright cloned it by planting one of its branches), and maybe the blupees were once the minish/picori from the Four Swords timeline (which would explain why they drop rupees when you hit them), and maybe Wolf Link from the Twilight Princess timeline crossed over as well (which could be represented by the fact that we can summon him with amiibo in BOTW)
Both options are extremely convoluted, and I don’t know how well either of them would hold up against actual scrutiny (I’m not even sure which one I think is more believable), but they make about as much sense as anything else Nintendo has done recently
I personally believe it makes most sense for TOTK and BOTW to simply be set so far in the future that in the intervening time between them and the era of legend where the other games are, the kingdom of Hyrule was destroyed and then reformed by Rauru. This makes the most sense imo, doesn’t contradict any previous games, and plays into the the endless cyclical apocalypticism of Demise’s curse. No matter how many thousands of years pass, no matter how many times the kingdom of Hyrule falls or the blood of the hero and spirit of the goddess defeat the incarnations of malice, Demise’s curse keeps them eternally bound and unable to win.
My understanding of how BotW fits into the timeline was always that, through these cycles of reincarnation, so many tens of thousands of years have passed that the events of all three timelines have managed to play out in every timeline, essentially converging them before the time of the Great Calamity. Now with Tears of the Kingdom, I'm convinced this must be the case, where Hyrule itself had time to be forgotten and re-founded, the Triforce was forgotten besides being a symbol of the royal family, and Ganon was able to actually permanently die and be reincarnated as a new Ganondorf instead of just resurrected like usual.
My personal theory for TOTK’s story is that it still takes place after all the previous games and isn’t a retcon or 4th timeline. I believe the two major talking points (the imprisoning war and Hyrule’s founding) can be explained. The imprisoning war of TOTK is merely a different imprisoning war from the one we were told about in ALTTP, they’re just called the same thing because… man gets imprisoned lol. As for Hyrule’s founding, I think we need to look at the ending of skyward sword in a different context. We see that link, Zelda, and some other humans go down to the surface. Before TOTK, we all assumed that link and Zelda founded the royal family and Hyrule itself, but I like think that’s not actually true. When Raaru and the other zonia come down from the heavens, people and towns already existed. I like to believe that skyward sword saw the events of humans coming down to cultivate the “land” of Hyrule and that TOTK saw the events of the founding of the “kingdom” of Hyrule.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS
TOTALLY AGREE
Additionally, (spoilers though you are already on a Zelda theory vid) only two Zonai were left during the imprisoning war - Rauru and Mineru, and importantly Sonia wasn’t a Zonai. She was a person from the land, not the sky. All of this lends credit to your idea that Skyward Sword just had people come to land, but didn’t establish a kingdom, while the Zonai were still in the sky and created a lot of tech, then finally came to land. The problem is that Ganon is supposedly imprisoned all this time. Unless there could be other Ganons while this one is sealed, other games cannot happen in between
To add to this Rauru and Mineru did not land they could be the first born on land but i think it is a few generations past bc those other zonai were sealed to the twilight realm aswell the 100% shrine reward makes it really confusing.
OoT has Raaru show up. He isnt a furry. It is a retcon for furries.
Something else to consider that might support the idea of this not being a retcon: the Rito. Unless they retconned that as well, this should be evidence of Wind Waker's flood, so maybe they just founded Hyrule again at some point, either in a new land or on a newly flushed Hyrule. Perhaps Spirit Tracks' magic trains are the precursor to the Sheikah tech.
I like the idea that spirit tracks is the fundament to all that shiekah tech!
THANK YOU! FINALLY! Someone talking about The Great Sea draining! I’d personally love a game focused on that if they did it right.
The Rito are interesting in all of this because in Wind Waker it’s implied that they evolved from the Zora who seem to be more or less extinct in Wind Waker. It’s possible some Zora survived long enough to re-emerge as a separate entity from the Rito but it’s unclear how this would have happened (or why the fish people would have all died off in a massive flood to begin with)
@@shoegazeagenda8106 Well to be fair, freshwater fish can't survive in saltwater and vice versa so maybe the mixtures of water caused the zora to die
@@narutosbelievin I can see that happen, you seen the underground???? massive
I think every event shown in breath of the wild and tears of the kingdom happens so far in the distant future compared to other games, none of them effect the current timeline at all. We’re simply seeing history repeating itself over and over, as is demise’s original curse and Hylia’s plan to stop him, the spirit of the hero, the goddess hylia’s mortal reincarnations and demise’s demon king spirit are in an infinite loop in every sense
Uh. Hold on, a thought occurred. What if Tear of the Kingdom's imprisoning war wasn't the one from Ocarina of Time, but was from the first few years since Hyrule was established? If that's the case, then the Ganondorf in this game is the FIRST reincarnation of Demise. That would also explain he knows Zelda and doesn't know Link; at the time he took action, Link was never born yet, so he only ever met Zelda.
I've seen this idea a couple times. This Gannandorf is undeniably a new incarnation from the one depicted in other games. But if the past sequences of TOTK happen during the first founding of Hyrule and the other games aren't being retconed out of existence, then there'd have to be 2 Ganondorfs existing at the same time, one that was sealed until TOTK and a second that's carrying out the acts seen in every other appearance up until now. That's totally something Nintendo could make cannon, but it seems like a bad option when there's a couple of ways they can make TOTK happen without any retcons.
@@OnADock i actually think that the ganondorf in tears of the kingdom has to be from a previous era, the gerudo in botw have pointed ears because of mixing with hylians, but ganondorf shown in tears of the kingdom has rounded ears like the ones shown in past games like ocarina of time. Even the gerudo shown in the founding of hurtle in tears of the kingdom have pointed ears in the same shot that show ganondorf with round ones. I think this proves that the ganondorf in tears of the kingdom HAS to be the same as in previous games
@@OnADock There is no way to make the timeline without a retcon without that happening. Zelda has been a dragon above the cloud barrier for 10s of thousands of years as well, so every Zelda from every possible timeline would have to exist while this Zelda was in the sky as a dragon, which is the same as having the sealed Ganon under the Castle and another Ganon. Likewise there were 2 Zelda's in Zelda 2 as well. Also just an interesting tidbit, if you go under Hyrule exploring you can find a stone slab that says they built Hyrule Castle there on top of the Sealed Ganondorf. So the Castle was built after his defeat by Rauru.
@@OnADock The idea that it's a different reincarnation is definitely deniable.
My take is that it is in fact the same Ganondorf from OOT and TP that broke away from his seal in the Sacred Realm after Hyrule's destruction (meaning his seal got weaker), eventually breaking free when a new Hyrule, founded by Rauru and in its weakest state, was formed. Then, the events of TOTK happen.
@@jasonbenedetti5499 I like to think this castle was built for a dual person:
1) As a memorial to the ancient Hyrule and their kingdom.
2) To seal Ganondorf.
The fact that they have just obliterated the Triforce all together still boggles my mind!
It's not **totally** gone. We see it invoked twice (sort of), both times in conjunction with "Sacred" or 'Light" powers. The first is the obvious one in BotW T-100y, when Zelda awakens her power and partially seals the Calamity. The second is in TotK T-?????y when Rauru uses his Light power to blast the Molduga - he makes a triangle-shaped sign with his hands. While not an explicit Triforce reference (hence why I say "sort of") it doesn't feel like a coincidence to me that that particular shape is used in conjunction with the Light power.
Isn't destroying the Triforce what caused Lowrule in Link Between Worlds to start dying?
@@BlueAmpharos not exactly. Lorule has its own version of the triforce which they destroyed and that caused their world to start dying. Since Lorule and Hyrule have their own triforces they only apply to their respective worlds so lorules destruction of their triforce has no effect on Hyrule
@@waltuh2412 I don't know if the triforce being destroyed is a spoiler for Tears of the Kingdom or not but I was trying to avoid spoilers of that game. I added the last part of this video to its own spoilers playlist to finish watching it until after I've played the game, I hope it wasn't a massive spoiler. And if anyone says a spoiler after this post I'm deleting my contents so I won't get notified again.
@@BlueAmpharos don’t worry, what I wrote has nothing to do with Botw or Totk it’s from a Link between worlds
I could listen to you talk about anything for hours on end your voice is just so nice
Let's be real here, there is no actual timeline, with the exceptions of:
- direct sequels
- whatever they decide is neat iconography or easter eggs to carry over
- whenever they decide that "official timeline" is a good merch idea
Mute Elf Man Stab Big Bad, Save Macguffin Princess. It's not like their character motivations have much more nuance to them than that these days anyway.
Talk about souless Sheiks theme? singing tunes on the ocarina shit used to have a bit of aubstance an feel to it. Keep me away from wierd goat/dog animal implied to make love to a woman as the King of Hyrule please!! Why did they add this facet that ruins the series for me 🤬🤮
With totk I have given up on Zelda lore. I was so excited when corpse Ganondorf first mentioned the name Rauru, thinking that Nintendo was finally starting with consistent, cross-game lore. Then just moments later all that excitement was crushed with the absurd Zonai founding of Hyrule. Besides, how the hell is nobody talking about Zelda apparently completely forgetting about her sealing power? Her struggle of unlocking her divine abilities was essentailly what the whole story of botw was about and she was basically the most powerful being in existence at the time botw ended. The 7 (or so) years later at the time of totk she has fully regressed and is a helpless damsel in distress again? Why? Why was this necessary, Nintenod? God how much I would've loved to see a fully powered up Zelda fight Ganondorf, but we weren't granted such a fantastic spectacle. UGH
There's a very simple solution to the timeline, due to reckless time travel and temporal weapons, the timeline is highly unstable and damaged so you'll never have a simple answer. If the cannon is really confusing and they have access to time travel, just take the Doctor Who approach.
I like to think that after OoT, where ganondorf is sealed in the sacred realm, Rauru (OoT Sage of light) literally goes in with him to make sure he doesn’t gather his power and bust out. It covers a lot that isn’t explained in TotK but I’m sure it’s littered with holes
If you look at hyrule historias timeline the creation of Hyrule by settling the surface in Skyward Sword happens, then the fight over the sacred realm by the interlopers(hint future twili ) and the Sealing of the sacred realm by Rauru, creates the Temple of time. Then the next event is the founding of the Kingdom of Hyrule. Hyrule likely existed before Sonia and Rauru just not as a centralized Monarchy.
That could work ,something similar to how Westeros was before Aegon's Conquest. Rauru and Sonia just go to each region to make peace with every race until the Gerudo oppose their reign.
That contradicts Royal family daughters being named Zelda.
I just found this today I love your channel nothing funnier than poking fun at the ever changing zelda timeline
I had always though that almost every game is just separated retellings of basically the same story and not a messy timeline with confusing prophesies that keep repeating itself. The main plots in Zelda games themselves usually aren't that unique and rather simple since they aren't really the focus as the gameplay, mechanics and world building.
"I only saw 1 cutscene"
Yes, in that cutscene you saw Adult Zelda left behind (Timeline A) as Link traveled back to his childhood era (Timeline B)
Thus, 2 "endings" for each character
I saw the link dies cutscene many times so we don't have to worry about that one
As I started playing TotK and the imprisoning war was mentioned I was stoked! Seeing as how a link to the last was one of my favorites…. Well then the rest of the story happened 😂 still love the game though
Felt the same about OoT when they mentioned Rauru at the beginning
you know you've made a good timeline when most of the evidence for when something happens have to be told to us by the devs
Except they always stumble over previous statements and constantly re-affirm that timeline integration is not a priority for new Zelda games, they just look at the finished product that is good on its own, and go “alright find some place to shove it the fuck into on this bs timeline so we’re done with it and let them reeeee about it”
"Can you tell us a little bit of trivia about TLoZ timeline?"
Miyamoto-san: "I dunno! I just work here!"
LOL
I like the theory that the Warriors games are actually how the timelines converged, resulting in BotW and TotK existing on a new timeline at the end
Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. Cuz in Wind Waker, the Rito were an evolution of the Zora who had pretty much gone extinct, while they coexist in BOTW, but it makes sense for them to coexist if they converged in Hyrule Warriors
@@data_expunged97 wolves and dogs still exists tho
Problem being that Age of Calamity already introduced yet another timeline split 😅
My opinion always was that BoTW came later in the child timeline where Hyrule were properous enough to thrive, then after TP Sheikan culture revived because Link basically passed the book that held their legacy, not only that but the people that remained in the sky along with their tech were found leading to the creation of the guardians and all of that.
I honestly kind of like the theory that all previous Zelda games can be looked at as tales lost to time and TOTK is us experiencing the events as they really happened. It doesn’t necessarily retcon the previous games or branching timelines, it just kinda cleans everything up and gives us a new “definitive” story to go off of.
So kinda like FNAF help wanted (but not really cause it was a cover up)?
I agree. I feel like most of the old games really happened in botw!verse, but the games we played are how the story was told. That's why the series is called LEGEND of Zelda. We're playing legends/folklore/mythology, not historical fact.
I think some games, like OOT and LTTP and LOZ are pretty close to fact, while games like LA and MM are mostly folklore, and other games like SS are a bit half and half. In fact, if these legends are stories told in botw hyrule, it could be that certain legends come from certain regions. Like i imagine LA would be told around Lurelin village, MM in tabantha bc it's close to foreign lands that no one has been to, etc
The hero was even venerated in botw hyrule in the forgotten temple, though by botw it's obviously been forgotten.
It's kind of like how we conceptualize ancient greece, and how they in turn conceptualized Mycenaean greece.
One small issue with Queen Sonia and King Rauru founding Hyrule and the royal bloodline, they didn't have any children. Kind broke their own lore immediately with that one, and it would have been so easy, Zelda going back in time could have inspired the Zelda name in a weird paradox too. Was really expecting to see their child peeking thorugh the window when Ganondorf 'took the knee' in the teardrop memory.
They could have has children off screen from the flashbacks we got
People keep saying this but its never implied that they didn’t. It’s heavily implied Zelda is related to them
@@Aristocratic13 not just implied, sonia straight up says it
@@ttmfndng201 Yes exactly. We don’t know how long Sonia and Rauru have been ruling when Zelda met them. Could of have been years.
Sonia said they shared blood. They might not have had children, but the direct blood relatives of Sonia might have kept the kingdom going. They left it pretty wide open to fill in any holes later.
There was no timeline, originally. They were stand-alone, franchised adventure games for a hand-held "entertainment system" in 1986. The idea of video games being franchised was in itself a brand-new idea, let alone the idea that those franchises should/could have overlapping, inter-connected plots. The entire idea that ever individual Zelda game can be connected on a single timeline, branching or otherwise, is in itself a retcon.
I havent laughed this hard in a while. This was so well done.
I love Zelda lore, epecially if it comes to the fun exercise of trying to put it all into one coherent story.
I think it's fun. That's it.
They set out to make fun games with engaging mechanics, but people tend to _want_ stories and if there is no story to begin with, people will make up their own with the few morsels of lore they got. People like puzzles too and if you got a few hints to what the bigger mystery is, people will try to fit those pieces together as a whole
just don't take it too seriously, or you will be driven crazy, it's still all just games, not a real world where everything actually happened (I'm not trying to disencourage anyone from trying, still love it all and those silly game theories with their flaws are still fun after all)
totk gave me a headache on my first playthrough, I was constantly trying to piece the events together. After hearing Rauru's name in the prologue I got super hyped about OoT's events being directly addressed... But that didn't exactly happen
same i was like "HOLY SHIT RAURU?? IS THIS THE FALLEN TIMELINE?" cause he mentioned rauru putting his trust in link like how in oot rauru put his trust in him but he dies in the fallen timeline from ganon. and then when ganon reawakens he recognizes link and zelda from oot
@@eddiej788 yeah, totk's story has a lot of untapped or missed potential but what we got was solid on it's own
@@eddiej788 Even to this day I did not finished Ocarina, so the name Rauru did not draw my attention, it flew over my head... but I did played Wind Waker, so that initial scene had me intrigued. Ganon knows? He is aware about Link and Zelda, just like WW Ganon... so this is a continuation of that time-line? Hyrule was "re-founded" after the flood went away (or it's a separate time-line were Ganon makes his wish to the triforce). But naah, seems like the BOTW time-line is detached with all the others, it's a fourth branch from Skyward
@@slipperykorn144 The plot it's very messy, honestly. Zelda usually struggles with that, but BOTW and TOTK are specially messy. The "present" story, showcasing Link, Zelda, the champions (then sages), Ganon to some extent.. it's good. But the background is confusing, thousands of years, crazy technology that never shows up again, triforce is nowhere to be seen, etc.. it's a goddamn mess
Nintendo didn't wait until the third entry to create a "cohesive timeline." Zelda 2 is a direct sequel, chronologically, to Zelda 1. It says so in the game manual that was originally released with the game. And A Link To The Past's game manual states that it is a prequel to Zelda 1.
Why can’t Nintendo just say “Look guys Zelda BotW and TotK are just another universe (like the comic book multiverses) - and any mention of places/events/items from previous games is because those exist as folk tales of alternative versions of Hyrule.”
This way nothing gets overly complicated and they can still nod to the other titles as much as they want.
dude , good video by the way but , there is a possibility that link's awakening was always implied to happen after a link to the past , the reason for this is that if you pay attention to the final boss , he change him self to different forms of bad guys depending on link's memories , one of them is agghanim him self from a link to the past , in fact , when you take a link to the past art work regarding the game boy advance version , and compare it to his design from those animated cut scenes from link's awakening's re make , you'll realize that they are so similar that it could the same link , i hope this helps
Honestly, I forgot about Agghanim being in Link's Awakening. I didn't even see it mentioned when i was looking up where the game was supposed to be in the timeline originally either. That's a great point. I guess that game wasn't originally up in the air.
A theory I really like that could explain how the timeline came together is that what is known as a Dragon Break occurs , which is a concept in the original Elder Scrolls where every possible result of an event happens and creates a new timeline ( in ES1's case the game's 6 endings ) and eventually those timelines coming back together after said events , and the theory is that a Dragon Break occured in the Zelda timeline , with the 2 Sages of Time Zelda being responsible for it , Ocarina of Time's SoT Zelda causing the separation and ToTK's SoT Zelda causing the timelines to merge back together . The 3 separated timelines still happened but the characters in ToTK don't know so all of the contradicting information we see in ToTK is how the people in the new timeline rationalize the event .
I know I have done a poor job at explaining it so I am just going to direct you to where I got the theory , that being Thinking at Max Vollume's video on it : ruclips.net/video/Uc9aFb6FVsE/видео.html
I never looked for a timeline in the Zelda franchise. they all felt like their own game so I just treated them as a new story told within that universe.
most of the games don't relate to each other beyond ocarina of time, majoras mask, wind waker, and twilight princess. Wind waker and twilight princess having the same ganon as ocarina, and majoras mask being an obvious direct sequel. Also breath of the wild having a direct sequel in tears of the kingdom
@@bobowon5450 I figured ocarina and Majora’s were connected but didnt even think about the others
Complaining that the triforce wasn't a thing until the third game is like complaining that Zonai wasn't a thing until Breath of the Wild "and then they had to retcon them into being people from the sky in the next game."
Yeah, that's how lore works, it gets built upon over time.
awesome video that I had been hoping for for a while! and I totally agree with your opinion about totk’s timeline placement
I think the past totk still takes place in the timeline. Just far in the future and I think the Zonai are hyleans that stayed in the sky. I don’t think it was ever confirmed in the game that the ruins, like the temple of time, weren’t in the past of totk so it’s possible the founding of hyrule was a refounding.
Makes sense, with the Zonai and Hylians being able to produce fertile offspring. That and in the flashbacks we see, the Rito were around during the founding of BoTW and TotK Hyrule, and they literally didn't exist until Wind Waker. I think most people are freaking out over nothing when it comes to the supposed retcons in TotK.
i agree my head cannon is that they came as a way to reintroduce the goddesses blood back into the royal family. Maybe that’s why our Zelda was struggling with her powers, the holy blood had spread too thin after so many years
My personal theory is that BOTW/TOTK take place in a NEW timeline created when Link time travelled to kill Demise in the past in Skyward Sword. Although that still raises the question of, where the hell did the Zonai come from if Hylians lived in the sky at that point. Unless they are even earlier, from before the war with Demise, and most were wiped out. It'd be interesting if they are the source of the more advanced technology that Lanayru used to make robots.
Cackling in my corner with a 4th interpretation of totk time travel where it is placed firmly in an actual timeline between skyward sword and minish cap. The reason Rauru is an owl in oot is the lingering desire to return to form (being mostly animal)
What do you mean im crying its cackling. It makes sense. I swear it does.
I gotta continue oot tbh that game looks mad fun! I also already know double what I knew before this video through this video sothat tells you everything about how educated I am on the series...
The messiness of your corkboard really brings out the clarity of the timeline.