I’m being shunned and I’m not even disfellowshipped or disassociated. I’ve just stopped going after questioning the whole 607- 1914 doctrine that I’ve scripturally exposed as unworkable . I’ve been given no satisfying explanation other than “Leave it with Jehovah” , as if Jah has now got the burden to clarify why the GB are teaching unscriptural doctrines Great vid . Well Thought out like the others . Well done and thanks for your hard work .
@glenfinch1468, I’m fascinated with my research of the Jewish exile to Babylon. Watchtower has changed the dates by 20 years in THEIR publications just to uphold Nebuchadnezzar desolation Jerusalem in 607. He didn’t even become king until 605 after the death of his father Nabopolassar of that same year. They cannot change real history, and that’s why they forbid the witnesses to do ANY research outside of the watchtower library. Because if they did, they would find out the real truth. Jerusalem was destroyed in 587BC.
In addition to what you presented, the "Organised to Do Jehovahs Will" book states that the disfellowshipping announcement, "So-and-so is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses", alerts congregants to no longer associate with that person. So, they shun based on an announcement, not on personally weighing up the facts of the case and acting upon their own conscience.
@@preachfromthehousetops2167Molte volte nei commenti dello studio torre di guardia, ho sentito commenti che si riferivano a fratelli che venivano classificati POCO SPIRITUALI di prendere le distanze da questi ,e questi commenti mi davano molto fastidio ,perche predicano l'amore poi prendono le distanze, quando realizzai che era solo propaganda ,decisi che era venuto il tempo di uscire e che questa falsa organizzazione provocava solo sofferenza, da L'ITALIA.
You do know that is scriptural right? 1 Timothy 5:19,20 New Living Translation 19Do not listen to an accusation against an elder unless it is confirmed by two or three witnesses. *20Those who sin should be reprimanded in front of the whole church; this will serve as a strong warning to others.* 1 Timothy 1:3,18-20 New Living Translation *Warnings against False Teachings* 3When I left for Macedonia, *I urged you to stay there in Ephesus and stop those whose teaching is contrary to the truth.* *Timothy’s Responsibility* 18Timothy, my son, here are my instructions for you, based on the prophetic words spoken about you earlier. May they help you fight well in the Lord’s battles. 19Cling to your faith in Christ, and keep your conscience clear. For some people have deliberately violated their consciences; as a result, their faith has been shipwrecked. *20Hymenaeus and Alexander are two examples. I threw them out* and handed them over to Satan *so they might learn not to blaspheme God.* 1 Corinthians 5:3-5 New Living Translation *3Even though I am not with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit.b And as though I were there, I have already passed judgment on this man* 4in the name of the Lord Jesus. *You must call a meeting of the church.* c I will be present with you in spirit, and so will the power of our Lord Jesus. *5Then you must throw this man out* and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyedd and he himselfe will be saved on the day the Lordf returns. As the Apostle Paul showed discipline is done before the whole church/congregation. They doesn't mean all members know the details because the details are disclosed only to 2 or 3. But the outcome is known to all. Paul had authority to "throw [ones] out." He reminded Timothy he had that authority to remove one's too. And in Corinthians he reminded those taking the lead that too should throw ones out that blatantly did wrong... Jesus said similar... Matthew 18:15-18 New Living Translation 15“If another believerd sins against you,e go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. 16But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. *17If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won’t accept the church’s decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector.* *18“I tell you the truth, whatever you forbidf on earth will be forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permitg on earth will be permitted in heaven.* Jesus showed that severe matters could be brought before the ones taking the lead in the congregation...and they could then remove the person and enforce non association with that person. That decision would be accepted/supported by Jesus and God in heaven as long as proper procedure was followed...
This video is exactly what happened to my little brother who was disfellowshipped over 2 decades ago. 😳 our parents are pioneers and shun 2 of their 3 children.
Wow; A Simple yet, powerful video. Hope this falls into the hands & ears of the Right People. Looking forward to your follow-up video on the 'Australian Royal Commission' Vancouver 🇨🇦
I do appreciate your videos! They always use the example of Korah, and apply it wrongly. How does Korah’s rebellion against the appointed priesthood have anything to do with the boy wanting to leave a haven lies? Ironically, there IS a rebellion going on by the elder body against the “royal priesthood”, the anointed in Christ. 2002/8/1 wt - “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the world. Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders!” So who is really rebelling? The anointed, who may question the move by the elders to “secure the priesthood” as the article calls Korah's rebellion; or, is it the elder body whose fake power over the anointed cannot be challenged? Num 18:7;2 Chron 23:6-7; Ezekiel 44:6-9; Dan 11:31; Matt 24:15-16; 2 Thess 2:3-4; Rev 11:1-3; 13:1-2,7,18 Anointed - 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16-17; 1 Cor 6:19-20; Eph 2:20-22 Said in the video - “We might wonder whether those with a measure of authority in Jehovah’s organization really act according to Jehovah’s direction or their own”. There is no measure of authority blessed by God in this organization. It never was His to begin with. (Matt 24:24-25; Col 2:8; 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 13:10) The only interest God has in it, is for everyone, the anointed and those with them, to “get out”…now. Rev 18:4-8; 14:6-12. 4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2023/11/disfellowshipping-and-shunning-is-it.html
Thank you. I’ll give some thought to what you said about the appointed but non anointed elders. The Bible is clear that all Christians are anointed. But according to their doctrine, members of the great crowd would have authority over anointed Christians which would be contradictory.
Great video! That shunning video is horrendous, just like the Sonia Ericson one. I believe these were both produced in the same year. 2016, and are still current. The Sonia Ericson "Loyally Uphold Jehovahs Judgments " shunning video is in the currently used "Enjoy Life Forever Interactive Bible Study Course", (lesson 57) which is peddled on literature carts around the world and can be studied online. Lesson 58 contains this gem, "what if someone we know has decided that he no longer wants to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses? It can be heart breaking when someone close to us does this. That person may force us to choose between him and Jehovah. We must be determined to remain loyal to God above all else. So we obey Jehovah's command not to associate with such individuals. " Of course these "spiritual gems" are revealed at the end of the book when the hope and expectation of the GB is that the reader has already progressed to baptism (lesson 60). Disgusting.
Out of fear their members will learn the truth about the truth Watchtower has to make them choose between loyalty to Jehovah and loyalty to a family member that leaves the religion. As if it can’t possibly be both, similar to Jesus response to the Pharisees about paying taxes. I haven’t explored the Enjoy Life Forever interactive study but I’ll take a look at this lesson. Thanks!
@@preachfromthehousetops2167 I made two videos about it on my channel. In the past the WT has shyed away from such explicit statements in publications intended as bible study aids for new recruits . I'm quite glad they put the Sonia Ericson vídeo in the new book as it graphically depicts, for the first time, the reality of shunning..what it looks like in practice. There are so many disturbing things in that video which a normal person would find extremely unflattering (heartless, cruel, insensitive) toward the organisation. And that paragraph in lesson 58! Wow! It seems a person doesn’t even have to be df'd or da'd to be shunned. I wonder how many jws actually realise these are in this book. It has been studied at midweek meetings but we know most PIMI jws don't pay much attention .
Religious freedom is RESTRICTED to the confines of the dogmatic doctrines of the WTS (WICKED TOWER OF SINS). You are FREE to join Jehovah's Witnesses but not free to leave without punishment. Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses believe in Religious freedom if it SUITS THEM and THEIR agenda.
The jws cry when someone is disfellowshipped, or at least the mom did. But at a loved ones death they dont cry., because of their HOPE in the resurrection. ?????CRAZY!
@@preachfromthehousetops2167because they thinks if you’re out of the organization you have no salvation. Salvation is by and through Christ Jesus alone. The witnesses salvation is by and through the governing modern day Pharisees body, their assisting and upholding the governing body and NOT Christ Jesus.
They BELIEVE a lot of ridiculously obvious man made dogma. They are no experts on anything, they just like to make idiotic claims. It's pathetic that so many are fooled by their stupidity and just follow along like a bunch of cult people, because they are just that.....stepford people. It's sad.
Interesting you should say that. They just did in court in Norway. Watchtower tried to say that witnesses choose to shun and they exposed them for lying.
Answer is yes and no. The organization from the top values thier religious freedom but no one else’s. When they said you have a right to examine your religion and leave they were speaking of other religions. In fact you can say I believe all the doctrine but I want to leave with no axe to grind. You will be treated the same as a disfellowshipped unrepentant adulteress.
@@preachfromthehousetops2167 I have not either. However once you say you officially don’t want to be a witness reason does not matter. You will be treated same as a disfellowshipped unrepentant person.
This video is good in one sense however the comparing of religious freedom against the exclusion of those that desire to leave or disfellowshipped is totally not the same. It is constitutionally written in the Governments laws to worship freely and those rights were being denied, whereas they are following the bible which is there set of rules, principles and commands to follow and therein God has laid out past actions on how He has handled situations and wants them handled by humans.
@@preachfromthehousetops2167 Just to be clear, I never said this explicitly or implicitly. A JW who outwardly demonstrated dedication to Jehovah by baptism is disfellowshipped for practicing sin and showing no signs of remorse, wanting disassociation and has expressed so or continually disrupting the peace of the congregation, becoming an apostate, et al Throughout the bible from the Hebrew/Aramaic to the Greek scriptures there are accounts and outcomes of those that were in opposition to God's commands and principles and ways of doing things. God's worship is to be holy just as he is holy, therefore, keeping the congregation and worshippers clean is a high priority. They are entitled to do what they want including being an atheist, agnostic or otherwise but none shunned simply for attending another church. All imply you no longer want to uphold your dedication to Jehovah as a JW.
@@jahtruthdefender While outlining the Watchtower organization’s policy toward unrepentant sinners, the video discussed two things. First that shunning is not left for individual witnesses to decide but mandated and enforced by the organization with penalties imposed on those that disagree. Second, that those leaving the organization for matters of conscience are to be treated in the same way as those unrepentantly living in sin. Can either position be supported scripturally? While the freedom of religious organizations should be protected under the constitution, the rights of individuals to freedom of worship should also be protected. A religion should not be allowed to disregard the human rights of its members.
@@preachfromthehousetops2167 That's correct regarding biblical doctrine "is not left for individual witnesses to decide" Or do you believe it should be optional as to whether one followers the commands or principles of the bible and still be considered a follower of Christ? Does God, the Father force anyone to worship Him? Are there serious consequences not fearing God and keeping his commands?.God does not force anyone and neither does he want those that feel they are forced to believe Yes it is totally up to the individual to follow the directive or not. The JW video gave a good example of Korah and his sons. Numerous times the bible tells us what happened to the dedicated nation of Israel when they left God. Punished by banishment, death, enslavement, etc. Secondly the video stated unrepentant sinners. Your version I know is an unmarried man and woman that live together. Anyhow there are numerous scriptures that support shunning or disfellowshipping. This list is by no means exhaustive - 1 Cor 5:11,13,; 2 John 9,10; Titus 3:10, 11; Matthew 23:38; 1 Thessalonians 5:14; Acts 19:9; You say "A religion should not be allowed to disregard the human rights of its members" Of course not and they don't. End of the day if you worship God you must be holy as He is holy by following His commands and principles. (Matthew 10:37)
@@jahtruthdefender Before going further could you please answer the questions in my response? Forgive me if I didn’t get it. First that shunning is not left for individual witnesses to decide but mandated and enforced by the organization with penalties imposed on those that disagree. Second, that those leaving the organization for matters of conscience are to be treated in the same way as those unrepentantly living in sin. Can either position be supported scripturally?
*Is that religious freedom...or religious suicide?* All men have the right to worship the God they so choose... *but would it make sense to endorse worship of false gods?* Remember there is only ONE true God...there are many false gods. They false gods are represented by religions....false religions. Exodus 20:3 New Living Translation *“You must not have any other god but me.* Exodus 34:14 American Standard Version (for thou *shalt worship no other god:* for Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God); 1 Corinthians 8:5,6 New Living Translation 5There may be so-called gods both in heaven and on earth, and some *people actually worship many gods* and many lords. *6But for us, There is one God, the Father, by whom all things were created,* and for whom we live. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created, and through whom we live. False gods/religions are promoted by a source. Behind false gods are real demons/wicked spirit beings... Deuteronomy 32:17 New Living Translation *They offered sacrifices to demons, which are not God, to gods they had not known before,* to new gods only recently arrived, to gods their ancestors had never feared. 1 Corinthians 10:19,20 New Living Translation 19What am I trying to say? Am I saying that food offered to idols has some significance, *or that idols are real gods? 20No, not at all. I am saying that these sacrifices are offered to demons, not to God.* And I don’t want you to participate with demons. **So the true God Jehovah gives people a choice but he doesn't promote freedom of religion...** John 17:3 New Living Translation 3And this is the way to have eternal life-to know you, *the only true God,* and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth. There is only *ONE* true religion that is acceptable to God, not many.... James 1:27 New Living Translation *Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God* the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you. Ephesians 4:5 New Living Translation 5There is one Lord, *one faith,* one baptism, Joshua 24:15 American Standard Version And if it seem evil unto you to serve Jehovah, *choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites,* in whose land ye dwell: *but as for me and my house, we will serve Jehovah.* Micah 4:5 American Standard Version For *all the peoples walk every one in the name of his god; and we will walk in the name of Jehovah our God for ever and ever.*
The question is: where does Jesus say we should shun those of another religion? Where does he say that shunning should be used as a tool to force persons to stay in a particular religion that claims to be the only true one?
@@preachfromthehousetops2167 First of all explain the word "Shun" biblically.... and then ask yourself *what work/activity are Jehovah's Witnesses known for....?* Matthew 24:14 New Living Translation And the *Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it;* and then the end will come. Acts 1:8 New Living Translation 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. *And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere-in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”* Romans 10:14,15 New Living Translation 14But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? *And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? 15And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent?* That is why the Scriptures say, “How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!”h 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 New Living Translation 19Even though I am a free man with no master, *I have become a slave to all people to bring many to Christ.* 20When I was with the Jews, I lived like a Jew to bring the Jews to Christ. When I was with those who follow the Jewish law, I too lived under that law. Even though I am not subject to the law, I did this so I could bring to Christ those who are under the law. 21When I am with the Gentiles who do not follow the Jewish law,e I too live apart from that law so I can bring them to Christ. But I do not ignore the law of God; I obey the law of Christ. 22When I am with those who are weak, I share their weakness, for I want to bring the weak to Christ. *Yes, I try to find common ground with everyone, doing everything I can to save some. 23I do everything to spread the Good News* and share in its blessings. Do you think Jehovah's Witnesses preaching to *all people of all religions* is part of shunning them?
@@mo2874 Watchtower uses the word shun to describe what Paul admonished the Corinthians to do. 1 Cor. 5:11-13. Have Jehovah’s Witnesses ever taught falsehood? Is it possible they are teaching falsehoods now? To use shunning to prevent a person from leaving a religion that teaches falsehoods is a violation of his right to freedom of religion.
@@preachfromthehousetops2167 Your question was and I quote "Where does Jesus say we should shun those of another religion?" Paul clearly disfellowshipped those who did not hold to Christians standards and refused to change... those ones were removed and shunned (as shown in previous scriptures). They are ones who have chosen to be in the organisation along with its standards and then later refused to live by those standards... We don't shun those of other religions...we shun those that leave ours as the bible tells us to... 1 John 2:19 New Living Translation *These people left our churches, but they never really belonged with us; otherwise they would have stayed with us. When they left, it proved that they did not belong with us.* People can leave directly or indirectly (through being disfellowshipped/shunned).
I’m being shunned and I’m not even disfellowshipped or disassociated. I’ve just stopped going after questioning the whole 607- 1914 doctrine that I’ve scripturally exposed as unworkable . I’ve been given no satisfying explanation other than
“Leave it with Jehovah” , as if Jah has now got the burden to clarify why the GB are teaching unscriptural doctrines
Great vid . Well Thought out like the others . Well done and thanks for your hard work .
@glenfinch1468, I’m fascinated with my research of the Jewish exile to Babylon. Watchtower has changed the dates by 20 years in THEIR publications just to uphold Nebuchadnezzar desolation Jerusalem in 607. He didn’t even become king until 605 after the death of his father Nabopolassar of that same year. They cannot change real history, and that’s why they forbid the witnesses to do ANY research outside of the watchtower library. Because if they did, they would find out the real truth. Jerusalem was destroyed in 587BC.
@@planeclassic7129 exactly my friend . Have you read Gentile Times Reconsidered?
In addition to what you presented, the "Organised to Do Jehovahs Will" book states that the disfellowshipping announcement, "So-and-so is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses", alerts congregants to no longer associate with that person. So, they shun based on an announcement, not on personally weighing up the facts of the case and acting upon their own conscience.
Great point!
@@preachfromthehousetops2167 Thanks.
@@preachfromthehousetops2167Molte volte nei commenti dello studio torre di guardia, ho sentito commenti che si riferivano a fratelli che venivano classificati POCO SPIRITUALI di prendere le distanze da questi ,e questi commenti mi davano molto fastidio ,perche predicano l'amore poi prendono le distanze, quando realizzai che era solo propaganda ,decisi che era venuto il tempo di uscire e che questa falsa organizzazione provocava solo sofferenza, da L'ITALIA.
"...speak consolingly to the depressed souls, support the weak, be long-suffering toward all. (1 Thessalonians 5:14)
You do know that is scriptural right?
1 Timothy 5:19,20 New Living Translation
19Do not listen to an accusation against an elder unless it is confirmed by two or three witnesses. *20Those who sin should be reprimanded in front of the whole church; this will serve as a strong warning to others.*
1 Timothy 1:3,18-20 New Living Translation
*Warnings against False Teachings*
3When I left for Macedonia, *I urged you to stay there in Ephesus and stop those whose teaching is contrary to the truth.*
*Timothy’s Responsibility*
18Timothy, my son, here are my instructions for you, based on the prophetic words spoken about you earlier. May they help you fight well in the Lord’s battles. 19Cling to your faith in Christ, and keep your conscience clear. For some people have deliberately violated their consciences; as a result, their faith has been shipwrecked. *20Hymenaeus and Alexander are two examples. I threw them out* and handed them over to Satan *so they might learn not to blaspheme God.*
1 Corinthians 5:3-5 New Living Translation
*3Even though I am not with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit.b And as though I were there, I have already passed judgment on this man* 4in the name of the Lord Jesus. *You must call a meeting of the church.* c I will be present with you in spirit, and so will the power of our Lord Jesus. *5Then you must throw this man out* and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyedd and he himselfe will be saved on the day the Lordf returns.
As the Apostle Paul showed discipline is done before the whole church/congregation. They doesn't mean all members know the details because the details are disclosed only to 2 or 3. But the outcome is known to all. Paul had authority to "throw [ones] out." He reminded Timothy he had that authority to remove one's too. And in Corinthians he reminded those taking the lead that too should throw ones out that blatantly did wrong...
Jesus said similar...
Matthew 18:15-18 New Living Translation
15“If another believerd sins against you,e go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. 16But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. *17If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won’t accept the church’s decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector.*
*18“I tell you the truth, whatever you forbidf on earth will be forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permitg on earth will be permitted in heaven.*
Jesus showed that severe matters could be brought before the ones taking the lead in the congregation...and they could then remove the person and enforce non association with that person. That decision would be accepted/supported by Jesus and God in heaven as long as proper procedure was followed...
Great video!
Can’t wait to share
Thank you
This video is exactly what happened to my little brother who was disfellowshipped over 2 decades ago. 😳 our parents are pioneers and shun 2 of their 3 children.
Sorry he has to experience that.
Wow; A Simple yet, powerful video.
Hope this falls into the hands & ears of the Right People.
Looking forward to your follow-up video on the 'Australian Royal Commission'
Vancouver 🇨🇦
Very well explained. Thank you 🩵
Watchtower is DANGEROUS RIP Raymond Franz
We couldn't talk to anyone ever if everyone has to be perfectly living to "Christian standards"
I do appreciate your videos! They always use the example of Korah, and apply it wrongly. How does Korah’s rebellion against the appointed priesthood have anything to do with the boy wanting to leave a haven lies?
Ironically, there IS a rebellion going on by the elder body against the “royal priesthood”, the anointed in Christ.
2002/8/1 wt - “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the world. Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders!”
So who is really rebelling? The anointed, who may question the move by the elders to “secure the priesthood” as the article calls Korah's rebellion; or, is it the elder body whose fake power over the anointed cannot be challenged?
Num 18:7;2 Chron 23:6-7; Ezekiel 44:6-9; Dan 11:31; Matt 24:15-16; 2 Thess 2:3-4; Rev 11:1-3; 13:1-2,7,18
Anointed - 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16-17; 1 Cor 6:19-20; Eph 2:20-22
Said in the video - “We might wonder whether those with a measure of authority in Jehovah’s organization really act according to Jehovah’s direction or their own”. There is no measure of authority blessed by God in this organization. It never was His to begin with. (Matt 24:24-25; Col 2:8; 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 13:10) The only interest God has in it, is for everyone, the anointed and those with them, to “get out”…now. Rev 18:4-8; 14:6-12. 4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2023/11/disfellowshipping-and-shunning-is-it.html
Thank you. I’ll give some thought to what you said about the appointed but non anointed elders. The Bible is clear that all Christians are anointed. But according to their doctrine, members of the great crowd would have authority over anointed Christians which would be contradictory.
Great video! That shunning video is horrendous, just like the Sonia Ericson one. I believe these were both produced in the same year. 2016, and are still current. The Sonia Ericson "Loyally Uphold Jehovahs Judgments " shunning video is in the currently used "Enjoy Life Forever Interactive Bible Study Course", (lesson 57) which is peddled on literature carts around the world and can be studied online. Lesson 58 contains this gem, "what if someone we know has decided that he no longer wants to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses? It can be heart breaking when someone close to us does this. That person may force us to choose between him and Jehovah. We must be determined to remain loyal to God above all else. So we obey Jehovah's command not to associate with such individuals. " Of course these "spiritual gems" are revealed at the end of the book when the hope and expectation of the GB is that the reader has already progressed to baptism (lesson 60). Disgusting.
Out of fear their members will learn the truth about the truth Watchtower has to make them choose between loyalty to Jehovah and loyalty to a family member that leaves the religion. As if it can’t possibly be both, similar to Jesus response to the Pharisees about paying taxes. I haven’t explored the Enjoy Life Forever interactive study but I’ll take a look at this lesson. Thanks!
@@preachfromthehousetops2167 I made two videos about it on my channel. In the past the WT has shyed away from such explicit statements in publications intended as bible study aids for new recruits . I'm quite glad they put the Sonia Ericson vídeo in the new book as it graphically depicts, for the first time, the reality of shunning..what it looks like in practice. There are so many disturbing things in that video which a normal person would find extremely unflattering (heartless, cruel, insensitive) toward the organisation. And that paragraph in lesson 58! Wow! It seems a person doesn’t even have to be df'd or da'd to be shunned. I wonder how many jws actually realise these are in this book. It has been studied at midweek meetings but we know most PIMI jws don't pay much attention .
Religious freedom is RESTRICTED to the confines of the dogmatic doctrines of the WTS (WICKED TOWER OF SINS).
You are FREE to join Jehovah's Witnesses but not free to leave without punishment.
Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses believe in Religious freedom if it SUITS THEM and THEIR agenda.
The jws cry when someone is disfellowshipped, or at least the mom did. But at a loved ones death they dont cry., because of their HOPE in the resurrection. ?????CRAZY!
That’s because they believe unless you get reinstated you will die forever.
@@preachfromthehousetops2167because they thinks if you’re out of the organization you have no salvation. Salvation is by and through Christ Jesus alone. The witnesses salvation is by and through the governing modern day Pharisees body, their assisting and upholding the governing body and NOT Christ Jesus.
They BELIEVE a lot of ridiculously obvious man made dogma. They are no experts on anything, they just like to make idiotic claims. It's pathetic that so many are fooled by their stupidity and just follow along like a bunch of cult people, because they are just that.....stepford people. It's sad.
They say and BELIEVE a lot of crap.
My other comment was deleted. Hmmmmmmm.
Those disfellowshipping videos are very triggering. Why doesnt someone play them in court?
Interesting you should say that. They just did in court in Norway. Watchtower tried to say that witnesses choose to shun and they exposed them for lying.
Answer is yes and no. The organization from the top values thier religious freedom but no one else’s. When they said you have a right to examine your religion and leave they were speaking of other religions.
In fact you can say I believe all the doctrine but I want to leave with no axe to grind. You will be treated the same as a disfellowshipped unrepentant adulteress.
Interesting. I have never heard of that happening
@@preachfromthehousetops2167 I have not either. However once you say you officially don’t want to be a witness reason does not matter. You will be treated same as a disfellowshipped unrepentant person.
This video is good in one sense however the comparing of religious freedom against the exclusion of those that desire to leave or disfellowshipped is totally not the same.
It is constitutionally written in the Governments laws to worship freely and those rights were being denied, whereas they are following the bible which is there set of rules, principles and commands to follow and therein God has laid out past actions on how He has handled situations and wants them handled by humans.
Where does it say in the Bible that those who leave one Christian church to attend another should be shunned?
@@preachfromthehousetops2167 Just to be clear, I never said this explicitly or implicitly.
A JW who outwardly demonstrated dedication to Jehovah by baptism is disfellowshipped for practicing sin and showing no signs of remorse, wanting disassociation and has expressed so or continually disrupting the peace of the congregation, becoming an apostate, et al
Throughout the bible from the Hebrew/Aramaic to the Greek scriptures there are accounts and outcomes of those that were in opposition to God's commands and principles and ways of doing things.
God's worship is to be holy just as he is holy, therefore, keeping the congregation and worshippers clean is a high priority. They are entitled to do what they want including being an atheist, agnostic or otherwise but none shunned simply for attending another church. All imply you no longer want to uphold your dedication to Jehovah as a JW.
@@jahtruthdefender While outlining the Watchtower organization’s policy toward unrepentant sinners, the video discussed two things. First that shunning is not left for individual witnesses to decide but mandated and enforced by the organization with penalties imposed on those that disagree. Second, that those leaving the organization for matters of conscience are to be treated in the same way as those unrepentantly living in sin. Can either position be supported scripturally? While the freedom of religious organizations should be protected under the constitution, the rights of individuals to freedom of worship should also be protected. A religion should not be allowed to disregard the human rights of its members.
@@preachfromthehousetops2167 That's correct regarding biblical doctrine "is not left for individual witnesses to decide" Or do you believe it should be optional as to whether one followers the commands or principles of the bible and still be considered a follower of Christ? Does God, the Father force anyone to worship Him? Are there serious consequences not fearing God and keeping his commands?.God does not force anyone and neither does he want those that feel they are forced to believe
Yes it is totally up to the individual to follow the directive or not. The JW video gave a good example of Korah and his sons. Numerous times the bible tells us what happened to the dedicated nation of Israel when they left God. Punished by banishment, death, enslavement, etc.
Secondly the video stated unrepentant sinners. Your version I know is an unmarried man and woman that live together. Anyhow there are numerous scriptures that support shunning or disfellowshipping. This list is by no means exhaustive - 1 Cor 5:11,13,; 2 John 9,10; Titus 3:10, 11; Matthew 23:38; 1 Thessalonians 5:14; Acts 19:9;
You say "A religion should not be allowed to disregard the human rights of its members" Of course not and they don't. End of the day if you worship God you must be holy as He is holy by following His commands and principles. (Matthew 10:37)
@@jahtruthdefender Before going further could you please answer the questions in my response? Forgive me if I didn’t get it. First that shunning is not left for individual witnesses to decide but mandated and enforced by the organization with penalties imposed on those that disagree. Second, that those leaving the organization for matters of conscience are to be treated in the same way as those unrepentantly living in sin. Can either position be supported scripturally?
Keep Exposing Watchtower LIES
*Is that religious freedom...or religious suicide?* All men have the right to worship the God they so choose... *but would it make sense to endorse worship of false gods?*
Remember there is only ONE true God...there are many false gods. They false gods are represented by religions....false religions.
Exodus 20:3 New Living Translation
*“You must not have any other god but me.*
Exodus 34:14 American Standard Version
(for thou *shalt worship no other god:* for Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God);
1 Corinthians 8:5,6 New Living Translation
5There may be so-called gods both in heaven and on earth, and some *people actually worship many gods* and many lords.
*6But for us, There is one God, the Father, by whom all things were created,* and for whom we live. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created, and through whom we live.
False gods/religions are promoted by a source. Behind false gods are real demons/wicked spirit beings...
Deuteronomy 32:17 New Living Translation
*They offered sacrifices to demons, which are not God, to gods they had not known before,* to new gods only recently arrived, to gods their ancestors had never feared.
1 Corinthians 10:19,20 New Living Translation
19What am I trying to say? Am I saying that food offered to idols has some significance, *or that idols are real gods? 20No, not at all. I am saying that these sacrifices are offered to demons, not to God.* And I don’t want you to participate with demons.
**So the true God Jehovah gives people a choice but he doesn't promote freedom of religion...**
John 17:3 New Living Translation
3And this is the way to have eternal life-to know you, *the only true God,* and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.
There is only *ONE* true religion that is acceptable to God, not many....
James 1:27 New Living Translation
*Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God* the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.
Ephesians 4:5 New Living Translation
5There is one Lord, *one faith,* one baptism,
Joshua 24:15 American Standard Version
And if it seem evil unto you to serve Jehovah, *choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites,* in whose land ye dwell: *but as for me and my house, we will serve Jehovah.*
Micah 4:5 American Standard Version
For *all the peoples walk every one in the name of his god; and we will walk in the name of Jehovah our God for ever and ever.*
The question is: where does Jesus say we should shun those of another religion? Where does he say that shunning should be used as a tool to force persons to stay in a particular religion that claims to be the only true one?
@@preachfromthehousetops2167 First of all explain the word "Shun" biblically.... and then ask yourself *what work/activity are Jehovah's Witnesses known for....?*
Matthew 24:14 New Living Translation
And the *Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it;* and then the end will come.
Acts 1:8 New Living Translation
8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. *And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere-in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”*
Romans 10:14,15 New Living Translation
14But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? *And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? 15And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent?* That is why the Scriptures say, “How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!”h
1 Corinthians 9:19-23 New Living Translation
19Even though I am a free man with no master, *I have become a slave to all people to bring many to Christ.* 20When I was with the Jews, I lived like a Jew to bring the Jews to Christ. When I was with those who follow the Jewish law, I too lived under that law. Even though I am not subject to the law, I did this so I could bring to Christ those who are under the law. 21When I am with the Gentiles who do not follow the Jewish law,e I too live apart from that law so I can bring them to Christ. But I do not ignore the law of God; I obey the law of Christ.
22When I am with those who are weak, I share their weakness, for I want to bring the weak to Christ. *Yes, I try to find common ground with everyone, doing everything I can to save some. 23I do everything to spread the Good News* and share in its blessings.
Do you think Jehovah's Witnesses preaching to *all people of all religions* is part of shunning them?
@@mo2874 Watchtower uses the word shun to describe what Paul admonished the Corinthians to do. 1 Cor. 5:11-13. Have Jehovah’s Witnesses ever taught falsehood? Is it possible they are teaching falsehoods now? To use shunning to prevent a person from leaving a religion that teaches falsehoods is a violation of his right to freedom of religion.
@@preachfromthehousetops2167 Your question was and I quote "Where does Jesus say we should shun those of another religion?"
Paul clearly disfellowshipped those who did not hold to Christians standards and refused to change... those ones were removed and shunned (as shown in previous scriptures). They are ones who have chosen to be in the organisation along with its standards and then later refused to live by those standards...
We don't shun those of other religions...we shun those that leave ours as the bible tells us to...
1 John 2:19 New Living Translation
*These people left our churches, but they never really belonged with us; otherwise they would have stayed with us. When they left, it proved that they did not belong with us.*
People can leave directly or indirectly (through being disfellowshipped/shunned).
@@mo2874 where does 1 John 2:19 say they should be shunned?