12tons vs Head Studs Using Time-Sert, Heli-Coil, J-B Weld & More
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- Опубликовано: 23 май 2024
- Perma-Coil: amzn.to/39GJ8Mu V-Coil: amzn.to/3QtQfIK J-B Weld: amzn.to/3zLb904 We shot this 3 weeks ago after we said we would test thread repairs in this video: • Home Depot LS Head Bol... and you guys leaving brand suggestions. So no we didn't copy Project Farm, but his video is great as well and in aluminum. So definitely worth a watch.
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We announced we'd be testing these last month and you guys provided brand suggestions. That said make sure to check out some great testing on these in aluminum here which is good data to have as well: ruclips.net/video/jknMrFOGMOQ/видео.html Our testing of head studs and mention we'll test thread repairs can be found here: ruclips.net/video/VlfVt1wqr40/видео.html Unfortunately we have full time jobs and can't edit videos and visualizations to get episodes out as quick as we'd like to sometimes. More testing and more sources is always better though, regardless of how our fragile ego might feel - we all need 10X the channels doing stuff just like this!
He's even using the "Let's Settle This!" from your titles going way back now too. PF also used Grade5/8.8 bolts for some reason, which unsurprisingly all the insert results faired the same: the bolt broke each time.
You both represent the ultimate in actual no BS testing, not only sharing, but probably collaborating would be the best options.
Hell get buck wild and actually visit each other to improve and share knowledge knowing that everything you share with each other gets passed to us, the viewers.
Keep on keepin on with this stuff. Great work as always.
At first I thought it was a coincidence PF beat you to the punch but then I thought about it and I believe Todd realized after following your channel that he never thought to test threaded inserts, his channel has been around a long time and testing helicoils would have been in line with the early low budget testing videos he did. He was probably kicking himself for never thinking to test them earlier
You definitely need to test cal-van inserts, they're usually used for spark plugs, ans I've been told they make helicoils and tine-serts look like paper!!
Might try using a lever on the dial indicator to stop ruining them. Interesting tests!
TTC AND Project Farm testing Heli-Coils on the same day? Collab coming when? 😉
Was about the same thing. Some coincidence.
We shot this 3 weeks ago after you guys listed thread repair brands you wanted to see tested in our Head Stud video where we said we'd test thread repairs. But we may not be saying what we test next in the future. Two points of data are always better than 1 though!
Yeah, the upload was within minutes of each other.
@@ToolDemos They both schedule their uploads for 10am on Sundays, not the first time to my knowledge.
I just watched project farms vid lol wtf.
Gotta admit, it's pretty cool to see 2 different channels post videos about similar products on the same day. I know there wasn't anything intentional about that, but in the future it'd be cool to see a collaboration between you guys and Project Farm. I have a lot of respect for both channels since you guys don't bullshit anything in your tests.
i've noticed a lot of review channels of similar types will all do groups of products like this at the same time. i think they do it to help send viewers to each other and make their viewership go up.
I think it's mostly coincidence; trends of the times, per se. They had the equipment ready and it wasn't a thoroughly tested thing before so the niche was filled with whoever had the time.
Yeah that was pretty wild that they posted minutes within each other!
I really like that both videos tested them in very different ways. Two trusted opinions are better than one.
Project Farm is a great channel for average stuff, but he has made some whoppingly bad calls when it comes to highly technical and precise stuff like this for the simple fact that he doesn't fully understand the physics or engineering behind it. No disrespect meant to 99% of the great tests he has run, but you can't be an expert at all things.
You can adjust your pump pressure +10% with no drama. Sometimes it just takes a few extra beans to get that happy ending.
You're spot on about that. This 12ton ram is 12tons at about 8700 psi so already poking it with a stick. Today we got it up to 9880 on a new special sauce head stud. Cheeks clench mode: engaged.
@@TorqueTestChannel There's only one way to find out...
@@arduinoversusevil2025 how has no one else replied to the legends?? I'm surprised this is the first reply I thought it was locked from outside comments for a moment lol
Engage saftey squints and giver hell
@@jacobwebb8818 Maybe some of us know how to keep our dick in a vise.
The PF and TTC testing methods were complementary. I appreciated watching both back-to-back. Surprisingly interesting for a product category I wasn't that knowledgeable about.
I suspect TTC doesn't like the timing, but I suspect more views than you would have gotten otherwise, as the audiences overlap a great deal and PF is one of the biggest.
Honestly, I probably wouldn't have watched TTC's video if it wasn't for PF. His brought me here. I wanted to see the difference and if the results lined up.
Someone has a mole 😅
The fact that they were posted on the same subject, and within an hour of eachother is kinda crazy though.
@@zacklangley951 I assume that they had it ready to go, and quickly released it once they saw PF's video in order not to be undercut (from their perspective), but I think it worked out just fine. I suspect that the same people/ persons who watched TTC discussion about these, suggested it to PF a couple weeks ago and he decided it was a good idea.
Just watched both your video and the one from Project Farm and fully appreciate both data sets. The fact that you both posted at the same time and had similar results from different approaches and products was pretty fantastic to be honest. Keep up the amazing work! And trust me when I say, even if somebody gets a similar idea, you guys to a fantastic job of presentation and filming. If I see somebody trying to replicate your tests, I would still watch all your videos because they are so well done.
There’s a conspiracy in there somewhere
It’s kinda crazy that we can have this kind of information for free these days. I’m sure professional mechanics/engineers develop an understanding of what products really work over time with experience, but with multiple presumed independent data sets, anyone can make an informed decision on day one now. I even feel better now about the JB weld I keep in my 4x4.
@@mrlt1151 It’s not free. These channels have ads and ads increase the cost of every product we buy so we pay for the information. 😁
I think those locking inserts didn't play nice with cast iron. Those keensert-type inserts usually warn you against using them in brittle materials because those locking keys are trying to displace material when you drive them in. The other inserts just required cutting new threads, which when the insert is installed, doesn't exert a ton of stress into the receiving material. The damage on the failed billet look like it's exclusively in the material rather than the insert itself. I've also seen those inserts used in a lot of aerospace parts, but they're generally aluminum as you mentioned, which has enough ductility to make it work
I'd love to see this redone but with cast aluminum instead of cast iron... At least in our shop we don't often run into cast iron blocks losing their head bolt threads but we run into aluminum block issues all the time...
Project Farm did his test on aluminum bars.
@@jaredhuang2225 He used cheap hardware store bolts though so the bolts broke long before the inserts would ever fail.
IN aluminium it is normal to use much longer inserts to match the lower strength materials
The Time-Sert option looks like the best choice for an assembly that has to be frequently bolted and un-bolted. The locking insert is like the faster and less critical version. I've always liked using properly installed Heli-Coils, but you can never say that too loudly or else the "Time-Sert or nothing" crowd comes out of nowhere and starts yelling. Finally some real data to quiet them down on coil inserts being supposedly for hacks.
Exactly. Nevee know til you test. Ill be saving money not using time serts.
@@jacksmith2315 We hate helicoils because they don't lock in correctly and come out after one use. If you are a "one and done" kind of person then helicoils will work great. If you plan on taking it apart, be prepared to have the helicoils come out with the bolt their threaded into! Not saying their bad! But there is way more to an insert then strength. The helicoil being stronger doesn't really mean anything since, WHEN TF are you gonna torque something to the point where it would break a grade 8 bolt with a timesert? What matters is that the tread is permanent and doesn't come out during disassembly.
TIME SERT OR NOTHING YOU HACK!!!🤣🤣 Honestly though, during my stealership days, we used time serts to repair cylinder head bolt holes, rocker arm holes, etc. Now I find out that not only would a helicoil work, but was actually stronger??? I'm sitting here like, wtf right now. The one thing about the time serts is that they will be able to be taken apart again, and helicoils usually come out with the bolts when you disassemble the parts.
@@jdmking4776 I'll take the stronger option considering I used them to mount a new upper control arm on my car lol. Less likely for an oh shit moment on the highway .
@@jacksmith2315 the issue here was the base material... Brittle stuff doesn't like the deformation of TimeSerts. An EZ Lok is the better choice for iron blocks, TimeSert is king in aluminum blocks.
also, coil inserts like to come out, and are notorious for allowing leaks when the bolt hole pierces a fluid gallery.
Manufacturing/machining job worker here: The Helicoil install tool is typically best used for making sure the coil doesn't cause scratching on your part, and helps align and keep it set right for tightly-machined threading. Most of the reasons we use it at my job is because we're working fairly soft aluminum, and these tools keep them from screwing the threads or chromate up, and help prevent possible cross-threading.
Some of the helicoils are 7/8", and those ones come loose enough to slide over 1" insert tools.
Some small metric sizes are prone to cross threading, or skipping a thread on install without the compression tool. The pneumatic installation tools and collated helicoils are where it is at for production.
I worked for a company where we put in 0-80 x 1.5L tangless inserts on a particular part. It was a bitch trying to keep the tool engaged with the notch. had to keep it under tension when repositioning your hand.
This is by far the most hilarious series you have done. Something about dial indicators flying like a blown man-hole cover just cracks me up. Sadly I have a broken rib, so this is also by far the most painful series you have done.
I use Perma coi and Heli coil at work and have never had an issue. We’re usually using them in spindles or knuckles for suspension mounts or caliper bolts. I can confirm that at least once, that I’m aware of, one of my techs forgot righty tighty lefty losey, and wound up snapping a 14mm bolt, 19mm head, for a caliper bracket in half. It was only after I managed to get the bolt out that I realized it was a hole that we had previously repaired with a Perma Coil. The coil was still in perfect shape and is still in that vehicle today. That was the day I learned just how strong coil type repairs can be. I’m actually happy to know that it wasn’t a fluke. Thanks for the awesome video!
Would’ve preffered to see the jb weld left to cure with the head stud left in the hole rather than drilling and tapping threads. Ideally just shoved straight into damaged threads and bolt shoved in after.
If it was a stud and not a bolt that would work.
@@FishFind3000 it was a stud in their video?
I think even just drilling it and letting it cure another 8hrs before tapping would have been beneficial. Cured JB weld doesn't feel "gummy."
@@9HighFlyer9 I agree entirely, needs 36hrs or better ! I thought we’d all learnt that lesson with epoxies years ago.
JB weld sucks for thread repair in metal, period.
I love myself some Project Farm, but why he chose to use a class 8.8 / Grade 5 bolt for his tests perplexes me. His results for the inserts all looked the same because the bolt broke every time, isn't that lost data? This video took that variable out by using the L19 stud and we saw the difference.
I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, and I found myself asking that as I was watching the PF video. I was like, how does the value at which the bolt breaks test the insert?
Yes the repair data is only as good as the bolts used. PF These test used better bolts and found the pump limit.
@@chrissmithz314 I think that he realized that as well and that’s why he didn’t draw any conclusions on what thread insert is best. He typically ends the video stating what product(s) he liked the best for one reason or another, but this time he did not do that.
I also think that he used grade 5 because it is the most realistic bolt grade you would find while working on a car. About 90% of the bolts on a car/truck will be grade 5 or the metric equivalent while higher grades would be used for things like connecting rod cap bolts, head Bolts, crank bolts, etc.
Eh, not really. Showing that all the inserts are stronger than the task they would most likely end up preforming is valuable data. In the same way that showing adhesives are stronger than the material they attach is valuable.
amazing how projectfarm released the same test on the same day within minutes of each other lol
Thank you for another tremendously useful video. You can imagine the horror of stripping the threads out of the drain plug hole in a cast aluminum crankcase and the subsequent elation of fixing it with a Heli-coil. I still remember how much more smoothly the plug screwed in to those stainless steel threads 40 years later.
You should use a simple lever to save your indicators. As long as the sides are equally distant it will turn the upwards motion into downwards of the same intensity and when the bolt breaks the lever moves away from the indicator instead of just putting the indicator in the line of fire.
THIS!!!
Or the lever could be sacrificial like a Haimer tip.
He touched the L19! It's going to melt n turn into a molten pile of platinum! Excellent and definitely relevant video, cant believe how well the JB weld did! I haven't seen anyone test thread repair options much less so thoroughly, well done..
That is till project farm posted one yesterday lmao, the more info and testing the better fellas
Won't lie, I was giddy to watch both of y'alls videos. I had a rude welcome to Heli-Coil kits when I first bought an ATV. The really thin metal that is threaded to hold on the skid plates rusts out super quick, so I had to use a kit on it and learn to cover that thing in oil/grease.
Fast forward to next ATV, it came with a broken bolt that holds on the exhaust shroud and instead of messing with Yamaha warranty, etc. I just used the same Heli-Coil kit from the other ATV as it was the same size bolt. Installed with red loc-tite and its been good since about 2007.
There is another YT video of a machinist comparing the helicoil versus time-sert. Similar result where time-sert was worse than helicoil.
I then asked PF to compare various methods of thread repair last year.
Interesting results. I've always thought Time-Serts were the gold standard as far as thread repairs are concerned. They are often recommended in place of Heli-Coils / other similar coil repair brands for things like engine block threads where the cylinder head bolts down to. The cylinder head fasteners are exposed to tremendous lifting forces from combustion trying to blow the head off, so I would definitely consider another option than Time-Sert if clamping loads were a concern.
As far as people in the comments section worried about a coil-type insert backing out compared to a Time-Sert? Not sure if I buy that, especially when you use high-strength thread locker to secure it. I've never had a problem with them backing out, even on fasteners that are routinely broken loose and retorqued. Very informative video. Keep up the good work.
R.I.P. to all the dial indicators who gave their life in the line of duty.
The issue was the base material... Using Timesert/Keensert-style inserts with a brittle material like cast-iron is a NO-GO. The install process is trying to plastically deform both the insert and the base material, and the process gets wonky on things like compacted graphite cast-iron.
To be fair, 1 isn't a good data set. It could have been a faulty insert. I would like to have seen a couple extra tests to rule that out.
Wow...pretty impressive what cheap little thread repairs can withstand. Wasnt expecting those results. Even more shocking the time serts didnt do as well. You always hear those are the best. Just goes to show you never really know until you actually test them...for science. Thats what makes your channel stand out over all the others, the proof is in the pudding, cant just listen to what someone tells you thats never tested the stuff before. Great vid bud. Keep up the awesome work for the gearhead community...and science haha
Time-Sert appears to work the same as heli-coil in (shallow) aluminum, which PF shows well
Project farm is another great channel. Ya thats great if you're working on aluminum. But if you listened to old man dave at the shop or uncle bob when and used s time sert in your cast iron block or head, youd be spending way more money for a repair thats not as strong as the cheaper options, which im sure is more common in the diy. Or since you said shallow aluminum, id assume used still be better off with the cheaper options in an aluminum head or block
helicoil and other "spring types" can distribute that load more evenly, just imagine what happens to "hard" threads when they start to give up....one lap at time, you lose your threads because there is lot more load in first lap than second or third...but anyway, nice to finally see some testing on these :=D
Project Farm just posted the same test minutes ago. What are the odds ? The cool thing is that you tested different aspects of the same products. 😀
LET'S GO!!!🏁
I bought a used car as a work car and a couple months after I bought it it spit a spark plug out at me I used the Heliocoil tap. And a Plug Saver from Fix-a-thread (Alcoa Fastening Systems) to fix it... that was 6 years ago I still drive that car hard..I used red Loctite and "pinged" the edges very critical to tap lightly the material around the hole to move it slightly to "tighten " the hole...no problems since...
Excellent video..excellent info...👍
You should re-do the JB weld test, similar to that of a Heli-Coil.
Drill out the old threads with the oversized Drill, then run the larger tap to create new threads.
This gives the JB-Weld something to grab on. The Oversized threads.
Fill the Hole with JB-Weld, let it cure.
Then Drill on Size for the Bolt size, and tap new threads.
Tough luck that Project Farm beat you by 15 minutes. Still two great channels and I’ll watch both videos.
Right but i watched both and to be fair i dont watch project farms as much anymore. I watched this one 1st was cool to compare the two videos
Project farm is a copy cat stealing their content. TTC announced they would be testing these a while ago.
TTC said they will no longer be talking about their videos ahead of time because of project farm sniping the idea
@@BrokeWrench this isn't the first time he did this either. Pure nonsense does have the creativity to come up with his own content.
Project Farm did a similar test with many of the same products and fond E-Z LOK to be the best all around with the Heli Coil design all showing well but his test were in Aluminum 2" flat stock. The E-Z LOC came in a complete set with drill, tap & insertion tool included & the inserts already had red Loctite on them. In his testing the bolts were the common failure point rather than the inserts.
"The OTHER name in..." is such a hilarious company motto. 🤣🤣
Back in 1986, a machine shop felt it was best to install heli-coils for the spark plug threads into my remachined VW cylinder heads (didn't ask me). Then about a decade ago one of the helicoils came out with the plug when re-doing plugs. I installed a solid threaded insert (not a name brand) from CarQuest, red Loctite on the outside of the insert and never seize lubricant on the spark plug threads; fine for a decade now.
This and the PF tests made me feel okay about the relatively cheap set I bought. I wanted something which had most things I was likely to need, but since I've only needed a few of these things in my lifetime (so far), I didn't want to spend hundreds of dollars on a set. Thanks for another interesting video.
The thing that make heli-coils so strong is the fact they are flexible. With inserts like time-sert the load really only puts pressure on one or two threads. With heli-coils the load is more evenly spread out.
TTC and project farm, great job to both for showing different failure modes.
I've been watching you guys since your channel started and you've easily made it into my top 3 for sources of genuine information on these types of things! I appreciate all the hard work and effort you guys go through to keep my dollars from being wasted! Thanks 100x for all you do and keep up the excellent work!
the JB Weld did indeed do remarkably well!
Machinist checking in. It is always better to use lube when tapping regardless of material. With cast iron you can get away with it because it is so short chipping. However, some people think cast iron chips act as lubrication because of the graphite nodules. They do not. They are abrasive. Cast iron actually wears cutting tools rapidly. Also, the reason you use timeserts over helicoils is because threaded inserts like timeserts hold up better to reinstallation than coils do.
HeliCoil has cheapened their sets from what I'm familiar with using in the 1960s. I still have the first one I purchased to repair 7/16 head bolts in a small block Chevy. Those sets came with the drill, tap and the installation tool was a threaded tube the size of the bolt with a crossbar that doubled as the handle as well as the tool to break the tang. The insert was threaded into the hole so the top thread of the insert was one thread into the hole. The installation tool was left in the insert, the handle was removed, inserted into the center of the installation tool and tapped with a hammer to break the tang without bending the bottom thread or pulling it out of place as the installation tool held it firmly in place. Then the installation tool was removed and the thread in the hole was staked just at the end of the coil using a punch. This prevents the coil backing out when a bolt is removed that has had thread locker used.
When their Patent expired in 1969, several other companies got into the market. Those kits usually didn't include a drill bit, they used a cheaper, shorter tap and didn't have a full thread installation tool. If the hole isn't tapped deep enough, the lower part of the coil will be in the tapered area of the tapped thread and wedge onto the bolt which is why the threaded installation tool is important so the installer can tell if the threads are deep enough. Many people installing coils don't break the tang off and just screw the bolt in to let the bolt break it off which will either wedge the thread or drive the coil deeper into the tapered thread and wedge the bolt. The taps included with the cheaper kits were of a lower quality steel and would be dull after installing the inserts that came with the kit while the early Helicoil taps could be used for many additional inserts.
Between you guys and project farm, RUclips is definitely a golden resource for me! Love the content, especially when you guys coincidentally do the same tests in your own formats. Best two channels on here in my opinion
We use thread inserts at work for aluminum molds that go through a bunch of heat cycles. Hand tight will work for most parts and the one's with a torque spec are pretty low, so they work when used in that scenario. Though people like to impact them down with Dewalt 20v Atomics.... So they don't hold up very well....
On the locking insert, it looked like the cast iron failed before the insert. I mean, a failure is a failure but maybe worth a re-try unless there was something that we didnt see that showed the insert failing. In my opinion, the locking insert would shine in the example you gave, where something was repeatedly screwed and unscrewed from it. I'm betting it would resist backing out better than the rest of the test group.
My thought is on something like cast iron where it is so dense and breaks or cuts in little pieces, those locks put a heavy uneven load and start it breaking around the insert. Those will probably work very well in aluminum or steel as they have some give in the material instead of fracturing
Came here directly from PF. it is interesting to see such good testing from two seperate but similar testing channels.
Wow..... I'm very surprised that a helicoil out performed the time serts. At the dealership we used time serts to repair cylinder head bolt homes, rocker arm holes, etc. Now I find out that not only could we have used the El cheapo helicoils, but they were actually better?
A decent comparison of the products and like others have said, application plays a huge part in selection of the correct repair. As a Tool and Die Maker, I cringed a bit when I saw the preparation of the sample. Whenever drilling in a vise like that and then tapping by hand, the threads are likely to be less than ideal (round stock like that begs for a lathe). Even a slight bias of the tap will cause an early failure since the stud only loads on a small area first. Especially in cast iron, there isn't any internal yield to 'set' the threads, they just crack.
A good Heli-Coil type thread repair is functional in a spot that won't be taken apart often, if at all. Where solid inserts really shine is their ability to be assembled and disassembled multiple times without pulling the insert out of the base material. Also, in cases where the holes are elongated slightly larger than the coil inserts, solid inserts are the go to.
Great summary, and classy response to your friendly competition. Regarding the Timesert, I wonder if it might have done better if the bolt was threaded right down to the bottom of the hole. The way it broke suggests the bolt may not have used all the threads, breaking away where the tip of the bolt ended.... Even so, it sounds like a good real world comparison, since we try to never thread a bolt all the way down, leaving a little room for debris and variance in length and depth.
Good question, the stud was threaded into and past the 5/8" worth of time-sert. There is something to be said about a blind hole the bolt can bottom out in and provide an even pre-load against the threads though.
As he mentioned the bottom of the time sert is thicker, im sure he threaded it all the way through, it just did what most things do when they fail and give at the weakest spot, which is before the bottom where it got thicker. He also mentioned it was difficult to remove it which shows it was threaded through it was because it broke and distorted that made it hard to remove
I repaired a starter bolt hole on an LS1 engine block w/ JB Weld and it has lasted over ten years w/o issue. The "ear" for the bolt actually broke off the block and I re-formed it w/ the JB Weld, then re-tapped it. The starter just crapped out on me and I was nervous about the durability of the repair . . . and was pleasantly surprised to find the repaired thread in perfect condition and merely did the minimum required to eplace the starter. Yea!!!
Cast iron doesn’t necessarily require cutting oil because the high carbon content $ crystal structure leads to numerous graphite crystals in the material. When you cut into the material, the graphite acts like a lubricant.
Gonna need a dial indicator memorial in the background somewhere
"In memory of" and then a picture and a mini bouquet 😄
Just my two cents on why the coil inserts performed as well as they did; by the nature of the loading between the bolt and the threads the insert is in, you are trying to squish/shear the 304, which if memory serves it resists very well in contrast to it's tensile strength. Not to mention with your standard thread form, it acts like a set of wedges between the insert, the bolt, and the parent metal, trying to expand the coil outwards, so in something that has a lot of resistance to expansion from within (like a big cast iron blank) it will hold itself in extremely well, if you tried that in a much thinner or softer blank, I bet you would see different results with the coil pulling out due to some elastic deformation of the hole it was in, in which case the insert types like the time sert would perform better. Just a heavy physics day for me I guess.
I like this guy's sense of humor! 😅👍
I use Time-Serts when there is a fluid passage involved. Heli-Coils in most other things. Main reason is that the solid inserts seem to seal better.
Helicoil type inserts are great for Briggs & Stratton cylinder head fastening. When you are racing go-carts, you take the head off frequently. Put inserts in the block, and life is good from then on...
This video has definitely got me thinking that I would love to see a video on Rivnuts.
Simpsons did it! Seriously, funny that both of you did the same video on the same day. Project Farm has their own style. I've always used Helicoils, but I've had issues with that little tab breaking off where it doesn't need to be. Some compressed air and a needle tip usually does the trick.
Thanks for the interesting information 👍. I didn't know that the inserts would be that strong and never would have thought that JB weld would hold up as that well.
Simply put you guys ROCK. You are so very helpful & produce extremely important information for mechanics & DIY'ers. I subscribed to your channel on the recommendation from CP the Tool Addict. Thank you for taking time to help me. Your friend Larry C
It would be great to see this same comparison done with aluminium, I think you would likely see different results when comparing solid mild steel inserts vs stainless coil type, I used to use recoil or helicoil but lately tool pro has saved me some money
The durability and strength of thread inserts is sensitive to the hole size and taper. Anything drilled (and a drill that's the biggest recommended size)by hand will derate these quite a bit in my experience. Great test and good info.
Dang man you are very talented between making the inserts work, testing the stuff, and actually having editing skills to make us this video wow nice
I'm most impressed with the jb weld repair. I had no idea it could be that strong. I have tried epoxy repairs but it was a lot of years ago and I did not have good luck with them. I guess they've improved on the compounds some.
Perfect timing! I just discovered 3 of the oil pan bolt holes on my engine block are striped out. Can't wait to see what I'll be buying to repair those threads!
For oil seals, a solid insert like time-sert is best. Less potential for leaks
Helicoils have saved my ass on multiple occasions and have never had a problem
You guys just keep getting better and better! Thanks, I loved it
I bought a V-coil set size M6 once to repair a thread for a valve cover. after one user error it worked totally flawless. I honestly took it for the price alone, never expected any real quality.
Lightweight simple spring -looking dealio ... that really needs to be part of of Perma-coil's next ad campaign.
1:53 oh my god that's a genius way to open that god awful packaging how did I never think of that!
The JB Weld did a heck of a lot better than I was expecting, to be honest! I wonder if driving the locking pins down into the cast iron started fractures that weakened the threads. I'd be really interested to see a similar run, but in mild steel instead of cast iron.
as a heavy duty diesel mechanic and using time serts for head bolt repair and "helicoil" for all others I've genuinely always wondered how strong the threads would be and this test really contradicts what everyone in the shop has said that it's weaker, makes me feel better using these products!
The only thing is though, that the helicoil will most likely come out with the bolt when the next guy has to disassemble it. I hope you're not one of those "fuck the next guy" mechanics.
What i dont like of coils is after many years with bolt rust,thermal expansion, etc, when you try to remove the bolt it binds and pull thr coil like a wire.
@@mandytuning Then you just put in a new one. I've installed them purposly for that reason.
@@Spike-sk7ql Then just install a new one, no sweat.
I've been mix and matching wire insert brands for well over 30 years, using Heli-Coil, Re-Coil and Western Threading Systems taps, tools and inserts with each other.
The only times I've had problems or failures have been due to either my own error in failing to drill or tap square or due to insufficient support metal. (Re-threading engine sump drains is often problematic when they only have a thin wall spot welded plug thread.)
Never tried a Time-Sert as I generally have to do my thread repairs in awkward to access locations and often have to get creative in how to get a drill bit into the location.
A tip for others: As I'm often running an insert into an engine in place, I have made up a couple of tools that I can use to slip over the tang of the insert and snap them outwards rather than knocking them off into the cavity.
Man, Project Farm AND Torque Test doing thread repair videos... is it my birthday?
You could mount a lever on the indicator stand and use the indicator on the outward stroke if you want to save a few bucks on cheap indicators.
JB Weld takes almost a week to fully harden.
Bravo sir. Thanks for your time investigating these inserts. As a budget maintenance mechanic at home I've always wondered who's the harware boss in "cross your fingers thread repairs".. I've also been thankfully lucky a handfull of times with JB weld.
always had good luck with helicoil. and we have used JB weld as a hail mary, with a helicoil and it worked actually very well and is still going to this day (non critical M6 fastener)
really interesting result on the time sert... I used to work for honda and there were a few engines that were known for pulling head bolt threads... timesert was the ONLY repair method authorized by them, I installed hundreds.... sort of has me questioning that result now.
Project Farm posted a thread repair video minutes before TT did. Crazy.
Thought I would give you a helpful suggestion. You can get tap handles that have a rotating top that can be installed in a drill press. Thus after you drill out the hole to be tapped on the drill press you install the tap rotating collar into the drill press. Then bring down the drill press head onto the slip fit of the tap handle. Perfect alignment. Use the drill press (motor off) to apply down ward pressure while the other hand is used to screw the tap in and out.
I was thinking the JB weld would work best without drilling out the hole. Just re-tap to clean up the threads a bit, apply JB weld and insert bolt. With the bit of original threads left I think it would hold better. I inserts really surprised me. The head bolts were a cool test to do. Over all fantastic video and great job.
Been wanting something like this for years. Thanks for doing this for us.
I always love watching you videos, subscribed a while ago. Back in my automotive tech days ( 45 years worth ) we used a time-sert type of insert ( can’t remember the brand) to repair striped spark plug holes. A spark plug needs a flat or conical sealing surface at the top depending on the plug design. A coil type insert will leak compression past the larger new threads and damage them. When you need to seal something ( compression, oil, coolant etc ) a sleeve type insert would be best.
A spark plug has a sealing washer or conical seat which is a larger diameter than the OD of the Helicoil insert, therefore there is no leakage. I do like Timesert inserts but Helicoils are much cheaper and don't require the comparatively large counter bore that the flange on the Timesert requires.
I have a similar amount of years in the auto repair/race/engineering world.
Pretty awesome and of course i had to watch both videos. Great content
Interesting results but not surprising. I’m not really in the machining industry but I’ve been made aware that coil type inserts are the gold standard, and the other fancy stuff isnt better. Glad to see it put to numbers
Jb weld seals holes in radiators pretty well. Works even while it’s still leaking
The Time-Sert installation tool is a rolling tap/roll-forming tap. They work way better with softer materials than cutting taps.
Very cool! The shop I work at uses Time-Serts for spark plug thread repairs on aluminum heads and they work excellent.
Those locking inserts have a special feature that make them extremely useful. Drilling or grinding out the internal threads and using a punch on the locking tabs allows you to remove the insert in 4 pieces without damaging the threads in the work piece. We use the inserts in a Zap-lok press (hydraulic pipeline press). Any thread wear or damage occurs in the insert instead of the press casting.
Catapillar hydraulic breakers come with stainless coil inserts brand new from factory.
Awesome video! It also matches the results seen in the Project Farm tests. The Time-Serts were also underwhelming compared to the cheaper competition. Great confirmation for what to purchase.
Thank you! You and guys like Project Farm, AvE, and others are doing gods work, providing a great library of useful facts for the rest of us.
Ever think of using a wire edm to cut stuff like this in half and get a better look at the failure ?
That is an awesome idea. Thumbs up worthy
Awesome test. Helicoil makes sense, since it's a round coiled insert with the same diameter throughout. The double threaded insert didn't have a consistent wall thickness due to the inside and outside thread position, so it makes sense that it failed at a lower point than the coil inserts.
What amazed me is the strength of JB Weld. Goodness, that stuff is strong!
Great to watch these videos. I actually bought a Rigid high torque 18V wrench due to your testing and I'm thoroughly pleased - make that more than pleased.
Thank you.
Great test set - thx. JB is amazing stuff, and confirmation on my assumption of spring coil strength is happy days !!!
Good to know JB weld can get you to a proper shop in a pinch. But for $35, that european brand is a steal for the tap alone
Man I can't wait till the next episode of dial indicator death row!! Totally full of "edge of your seat" info. Very riveting! Lol
All thread coils are stronger than you think. I have some hand-me-downs from a machinist and they're all different brands. If it mattered much it would only be one. He worked on giant presses that shook the ground all the way out in the parking lot when they struck. Whatever seemed more than adequate. You've proved it.
What I’ve done with the Time-Sert’s while using them, is put red loctite on the outer threads so to cement it further. Maybe to try that with another thread insert video, but using red loctite on the outer threads for each install.
He did use red locktite on the outter threads didnt he? I know he did on most, and he reused thr same l19 stud for almost everything so i dont thing he used it on the inside threads
the timing is great! I love y'all both (don't worry, you're still my favorite) I got my coast headlamp cuz of y'all and still use it daily, love that thing
Would be nice to figure out a way to save dial indicators when something blows out. Perhaps disposable sacrificial element between dial and tested piece that snaps when there's too much of a shock?
Finally some question from many forums has been fulfilled. Some say that I am idiot using helicoils, I should use serts. I have used helicoils for exhaust manifolds and some various threads in the engines except cylinder head studs(never had to though). And one very big plus from helicoil style inserts is - of you screw it up you can pull it out and start again.
When I was in trade school our instructor really bent our ears about the superiority of time-serts. Now after all these years our sneers and jeers are vindicated!
Helecoils are great for fixing striped out AL threads. I put one in my high end DSLR after the 1/4 thread wore out. The fix was stronger then new.
Need some kind of lever arm set up for your dial indicators so they are offset from the exploding bolts and dont get taken out each time.
Had to buy our company a 1-1/2” Heli-Coil kit decades ago. Over $600, but it came in a steel suitcase.