Imagine telling someone “Hey, you being a die-hard tjlc fan and harassing people who disagree is not okay” and your immediate response being “she basically called me a war criminal”
@@haileygiabiconi8830 I think it was maybe more resentment than true malice. That Sherlock was bigger than him than him as a writer. I think people seem to assume fanatical fandoms only happened due to internet. When in reality “crazy” fandoms have always existed. They also tend to put a strain on their creators see game of thrones or Star Wars as further examples.I think eventually George Lucas said something like “Star Wars was my destiny” but it took him years to get that point of acceptance.
@Najawin how would you defend him mocking fans of his work then? And I'm not just talking about johnlock fans, just his penchant for humiliating the people who enjoy his work?
@Najawin he doesn't actually have to be great, he can just have someone hint at his unimaginable greatness that can't be paralleled so he never has to actually demonstrate it himself.
Meanwhile, in another fandom, it's been joked that the Attack on Titan author followed up a controversial manga ending that "divided the fanbase" with an epilogue so terrible that *everyone* hated it.
@@vitoc8454Not only that, but a part of the fandom (myself included) thought that the chapters leading to the Rumbling where a collective illusion created by Eren's Founding powers, much like with Sherlock's secret episode. Not as much because they were narratively bad (the following chapters would be far worse) but because they were plagued with inconsistencies so obvious that even seemed intentional, such as Gabi casually riding a horse despite having thrown a tantrum about not knowing how to ride a horse just some episodes prior. None of those theories eventually amounted to anything lol
@@cortneyperfume_madness480 I know that this is a joke but, if people were so invested in my minor role in production, I would knowingly do shit to mess with them.
Then he's an idiot. That's not how set design works. Everything in the set is supposed to reveal some meaning or reflect the characters and their inner lives. So saying I just like elephants is either a complete lie or this guy doesn't understand set design.
i stopped watching sherlock after i broke up with the girl who introduced it to me so the biggest impact it ever had on my life was that every time i plug in my phone and miss the charger hole, i think about how sherlock would call me an alcoholic
i'm pretty sure i only ever watched the first season but LORD the charger thing has been living in my brain rent free for like six fucking years now and i don't think i can escape it
when she said people shipped johnlock before the show adaptation I legit started imagining two teenage girls from the 1800's whispering excitedly about a forbidden love between Sherlock and John and how they'd have to sneak around and all the adventures and mishaps that would ensue.
@Chrissy K I mean, that's a counter example. I've never heard of anyone trying to pretend the GoT finale wasn't the real one and that a secret good finale would come out anytime! It was however a finale so bad it retroactively made the last 2-3 seasons bad and unwatchable for a lot of people.
@@jaimeerindy4573 It's SO bad. It's just kind of an... "THAT is what they're going with?" Ending. I choose to believe it was all a dream, because oh my god it was bad.
ruclips.net/video/LkoGBOs5ecM/видео.html Fake-Feminism, Fake-Intellegence and Fake-Characterization. Here's a video that lists it all. This show was extremly bad and has nothing smart about it. It depowers woman (and men too) as Irene Adler is an infinitely inferior version of her book-self. Among other problems.
Imagine you were dismissed from your job for bogus reasons, suspiciously soon after your employer found out you were part of a protected category under civil rights law. You get your big day in court, where you’re going to stick it to the bastards that took away your livelihood. All is going well, you’re even feeling confident when you take lunch. And, halfway through your soup, you look over.... and your civil rights lawyer is cyber bullying pre-teens on the internet because they don’t agree with her interpretation of how modern-day incarnations of Arthur Conan Doyle’s characters have sex. Just think about that.
@@IceQueen975 well, i mean, the entire first episode was definitely something. and then the little nuggets scattered in every other episode. it wasn't cool for them to do that but how rabid the fans became was not cool either.
@@IceQueen975 Man, I watched the show with no interrest in shipping, never shipping any sherlock characters, not a part of the community, never read any fanfiction and never interracted with the community and even I was taking the piss out of how much the writers were clearly queerbaiting other people. The word gay is used more often than the word mystery.
Imagine if the theory was real. *Imagine* heading to *Picadilly Circus* to watch the presidential inauguration of Donald J Trump and it's The Secret Good Fourth Sherlock Episode. I think that would have instantly killed every human on earth
Imagine if they accidentally aired the Sherlock Finale, again, instead of Apple Tree Yard episode 1. There are just so many ways the BBC could've fucked with Sherlock fans for no reason other than shits and giggles. Of course, none of the bureaucrats in charge of the BBC have ever had a shit or a giggle.
If I worked at the BBC I'd broadcast the finale 4 times on the 4th of April and then say "sorry but you missed it" as the only explanation. At this point if they fall for it it's their fault
To be fair, it would’ve been the funniest shit if Mofftiss and the BBC had faked the entire 2016 presidential election for the Secret Good Fourth Episode.
@@shiloha5646 you're so right. i loved how in elementary, they showed sherlock holmes and joan watson (lucy liu) actually stay up late at night reading files and investigating crime scenes because that's exactly how crime solving should be. because of that, i could actually also try to logically solve the cases and managed to do so for a few episodes. it felt satisfying watching the show because i felt like i was helping out (and ofc i love watching lucy liu in a smart suit being a smart badass investigator haha)
@@TheAbigailDee i rewatched the show and i noticed that lucy liu actually gradually changes her fashion style. she started with more casual clothes during the first season. as she spent more time with sherlock, she started in incorporating more formal clothing, until she finally fully embraced the suit outfits and almost exclusively only wears suit outfits in the later seasons.
November 6th, 2020: After Destiel is made canon, rumors begin spreading about a fifth season of Sherlock. My palms are sweating. My hands shake as I type. I can't do this. Not again. Superwholock II is coming.
Given his own fans basically *forced* him to keep writing Holmes adventures & he hated his own character with the burning passion of a thousand suns… I think the only part that would surprise him is that anyone would talk about homosexual relationships so openly.
I just think it's weird so many young fans seem to want a "fandom mom". For me, fandom was where I expressed myself without my mom hovering over me and I was taken seriously by adults who weren't sure of my age because I didn't advertise it. I also think it's weird how young fans these days *do* actually openly talk about their age, and are then shocked when someone they've been interacting with is a predator. The early days of the internet was _all about_ lying about your age. I claimed to be 14 starting when I was 12, then I claimed to be 16 when I was 14, and I always claimed to be 18 whenever porny fanfiction websites said "you must be 18, click this pop-up that says you're 18 to proceed." God, sometimes I miss the early internet, those were the days.
@@erraticonteuse I think there's this idea of wanting mentorship and life advice from someone who "gets it"--not really a mom, but more of a protective older sister. Given that a lot of young fans have difficult relationships with their families I think it's understandable that some of them would seek that out, but then there's the question of power dynamics and influence and "fandom moms" not actually being mature or self-aware enough to recognize the consequences of their actions...idk, I was active in bandom for a couple years and while the older fans I interacted with were respected, there was definitely a lot of mistrust around them
@@peonylarkspur645 I do get that, but where really falls apart for me is when they call _themselves_ "fandom mom". It's one thing for their younger fans/friends to say, "haha you're my fandom mom" and for them to just smile and move on, but it's another thing entirely to self-appoint themselves as "fandom mom". Even aside from the weird power dynamics, it's just cringy. I mean, it's basically the same thing as Amy Poehler's "I'm not a regular mom, I'm a cool mom" in Mean Girls.
I'm not too familiar with fandom moms myself thankfully, but from what I understand it's usually a very specific type of person (typically a woman, but you never know) above the usual age range of the fandom. People like fujoshis who refer to men in relationships as their "sinful gay babies". They portray themselves as a "Fandom Mom" because it gives them an image of credibility and presents an easy in with vulnerable teenagers who might not have the best home life of their own. They groom minors into thinking that all their toxic behaviors (usually along the lines of pedophilia, incest, etc.) are Completely Fine Actually, and turn their "children" into little content factories as well as their own personal defense squad.
Because they wanted to build a fanbase of men in their 20s but ended up with one of mostly teenage girls, and our society absolutely despises everything teenage girls like.
Honestly? It probably comes down to how rabid the fanbase was and how much it was pissing off every other fandom on the internet. Moffat saw his opening to continue a show where there was no conceivable explanation for the survival and he took it.
@@riley8385 My guess is that Moffat&co were trying to cater to the anti-hero trend that characterized “peak tv” at the time. But more of the depth shows that focus on a singular character and their importance. Breaking Bad’s Walter White and The Soprano’s Tony Soprano come to mind. These have followings of young men who buy into the power fantasy of being a powerful, asshole-ish, anti-hero. Moffat looked like he was trying to do this with Sherlock Holmes. He missed tho. Got the Tumblr fangirls instead. He’s been seemingly salty about it ever since.
My diagnosis would be that they didn’t start out that way. If you look at any of their interviews it becomes very clear that they see the show as a highly intelligent mystery/crime drama. The fans, meanwhile, very clearly see/saw the show as a soap opera. All of the GIFs/theories/fanfics/speculation/everything are about the characters and their relationships and feelings, not about the mysteries or plots. I think their contempt is largely from resentment that the fans were ‘watching it wrong’ and focusing on the ‘wrong things.’
I'm a grown ass adult now and could not care less about Sherlock, but I'm still so salty that probably every episode has some reference to a character picking up on a romantic relationship between John and Sherlock, but then when fans called out queerbaiting the creators were like, 'there was never any hint that they might be together, grow up.' Like ahh sir you yourself wrote your own characters picking up on romantic subtext but when your audience does the same suddenly we're stupid? Okay so yeah I'm still mad
This was always one of my favorite things about the show. The characters in the universe reacted in a similar way to the events, as the people watching the show. It made it feel more real, that the characters acknowledged how wild and over the top planned out Sherlocks and Moriartys plans were. And that was also what made me believe Johnlock would be canon eventually. The characters noticed the sexual tension, so it clearly was deliberate. I wasn't even into the whole TJLC stuff and the in depth analysis, I just actually thought all the jokes were a way to set up John and Sherlock having feelings for each other but being oblivious/in denial and eventually confronting their feelings. It's a massive dick move to deliberately write it in and then pretend like the fans were over analyzing (which the creators encouraged them to be), not to mention all the queer bating.
SAME. i’ve been getting into sherlock again recently and i realized there are SO many people who make jokes about it or infer it. like i seriously thought i made up johnlock in my head and then i went back and watched and i was like damn it’s actually pushed in the show by the writers.
Yeah, I can't accept the idea that the showrunners aren't to blame. Yes, the conspiracy group got out of hand, but it only existed and got so extreme in the first place because the show and its creators encouraged it.
The fact they not only never solved the reichenbach mystery conclusively, but went *out of their way* to mock people who tried and confirm that they were never going to provide answers, tells me that Moffatt never actually had an answer and just threw a bunch of details at a wall to get more audience engagement during the hiatus.
@@merri-toddwebster2473 as someone who has never watched a single episode of Sherlock and doesn't give a shit about doing so, I'm blaming the boomerang.
When I hear the words "fandom mom" I immediately feel a full body shudder. I have more trust for fandom nsfw artists who instablock anyone below 18 trying to follow their blog than UwU fandom moms who try to drag kids into their cults of personality.
i understand completely! curating your account that best you can to make it so it’s for a space for designated people is a lot more responsible than trying to act like some fandom spokesperson.
As someone in their (early) 20's who still regularly is involved in some smaller tumblr fandoms, don't touch self-proclaimed "fandom moms" with a 40-foot pole.
gotta love how the children's show Gravity Falls was more cleverly written and had more subtle mysteries and codes to solve that actually tied into the series' biggest reveals than the big budget BBC show "for adults"
Because the people behind Gravity Falls actually cared about what they put out there unlike with BBC Sherlock. In fact, after the show ended, Alex Hirsch created a worldwide treasure hunt that was connected to the show via puzzles, codes and etc. If you want a whole video on it, check out Blameitonjorge. He made a video documenting the whole event back when it happened.
I *loved* being in the Gravity Falls fandom. I'm pretty sure half the audience were adults but I didn't notice if they were up to no good. The "Stan has a secret brother" theory was buck wild but the payoff was glorious. And the finale was great, imo Some parts of the fandom is still kicking around but a lot have moved in with the Owl House.
i was just thinking about that- like the vibe from sherlock is like if Hirsch had planted just as many clues but had no idea who the author was actually supposed to be
@@Alex-jg2bc as someone who was fairly heavily involved in the warriors fandom (or at least, in the fanfiction/forum roleplay side of it) back in the early 2010s, the warriors fandom could get surprisingly toxic at times But yeah, watching this really made me realize just how mean-spirited Sherlock got? Then meanwhile, Alex Hirsch actaully encouraged fan theorizing and actaully gave fans some kind of payoff for it. Weird how the kids show handled it better. Edit: I feel like I should mention that the majority of the drama took place on the youtube/animation side of the warriors fandom and kind of trickled out to the rest of the fandom. My personal experience was actaully fairly positive.
Which is more important: The head of state for the most powerful government on Earth, or fandom conspiracies? (Please consider the perspective of a teenager who has spent _way_ too much time reading arguments about fandom conspiracies.)
It's broadly in the same camp as Dr Who weirdos who hoped the 2012 Olympics would have David Tennant in full The Doctor regalia be the one to light the torch or whatever. Fandoms are wacky and adorable
In the case of that particular US president, it was almost a distinction without a difference. What else was the Drumpf presidency, if not a massively deluded cult of personality?
Seriously, a thirty year old former Gleek declaring herself "fandom mom" and trying to police forum posts to control content about character shipping is the single most early 2010's Tumblr shit I've ever heard in my life.
I died when Sarah said "Just be an adult and use your judgment" about 30-year-olds who were harassing other people on Tumblr and IRL at conventions over a ship from a freaking tv show. Clearly there are people out there who have too much time and money on their hands.
@@martaszabo465 And when people guessed correctly that the author was Stan's twin brother, they referenced the twist in a subsequent episode, but not in a "the fans are fucking stupid for trying to solve the mystery I encouraged them to solve". Alex Hirsch is great.
I definitely appreciated rewatching it, and that Hirsch didn't change plot points just to stay a step ahead of people who had correctly guessed some of his story points
Anyone here remember when there was an allegedly leaked frame of Old Man McGucket writing the journals, exposing the fandom to a bunch of evidence that he could be the author (Most notably that his cast could have been hiding the injury of a missing sixth finger), and then this was seemingly confirmed at the start of an episode only to then reveal that he was only working for the author? And then it turned at that Alex Hirsh himself had been responsible for the alleged leak as an attempt to throw the fans off the scent of the actual reveal! What a legend.
Ahhhh I remember watching your video on this show when I was in high school! I remember you said something like “a gay writer probably won’t do something as harmful to the community as queerbaiting”
The amount of active racism and fetishisation of gay/queer men is such a staple of that era of tumblr. I remember the amount of uncomfortable questions and comments about being 'so cute' for being LGBT. It also really turned me off of the most prominent fandoms at the time.
Bro this legit still gives me creeps. Being a child at the time who didn’t understand the attraction of queer ships, the whole superwholock situation gave me chronic paranoia against anyone who exclusively ships gay characters.
The icky part of it for me was moreso how they tried to frame it as somehow being social justice to engage in slash fandoms. And that the primarily straight cis people participating were somehow helping the cause of gay representation. To be clear, I have no issue with slash fics. But like, cmon. Just admit that it’s motivated by wanting cute boy to kiss. There’s nothing wrong with liking cute boy kiss. But recognizing when you are indulging in a kink is a pretty important part of engaging with some kinks responsibly and respectfully. Don’t conflate queer identity and co-opt any sort of social power from the common ground of liking cute boy kiss
"this quickly boiled into the powerpuff girls making public plans to crash some of these creators' panels, namely the toplockers at the later foodissex con" ...i never thought this would be a sentence i'd hear in my life
The anti-Moftiss is Jonny Sims, who said in Magnus Archives Q&As that he kept an eye on a specific subset of fans who were really into theorizing and analysis. If they were picking up the breadcrumbs he was dropping, he knew he was doing his job right. If they weren't at all, then he knew the foreshadowing he was doing wasn't effective and he needed to be more deliberate so the show's big reveals wouldn't just come out of nowhere. (Also the fact that, by the end, most fans had figured out more-or-less where the show was going, because it was so well telegraphed and foreshadowed up until that point. There were still some surprises, but nothing felt out of place or like a cop-out because Jonny actually wanted us to engage with the mystery.)
yes!! tma is the most involved I've ever been in a fandom, and I really remember that there were SO MANY theories all with very reasonable connections to characters' actions and dialogue lines. I didn't know what exactly would happen in the finale but I had a general idea and it felt cool to figure out what actually happened!
Not to mention a well set up, canonical, and affectionate romantic relationship between the canon biromantic asexual protagonist and another man, as well as a WLW relationship between two supporting characters, and several gay, trans, and nonbinary characters who pop up over the course of the show. It's not tacked on, it's not an afterthought or a joke or subtext, it's just... Queer people existing
Jealousy. MArtin Freeman reads the fanfic and appreciates the fan art- even the explicit ones. He admits that a lot of it is intelligent and well thought out. So seeing Moftiss (well Moffat, mostly) get so pissy about it is fucking weird.
It's odd how people were so angry at Elementary, especially when the creators of Elementary were adamant Holmes and Watson would never have a romance. What we got was a really wonderful friendship between a man and a woman that was loving and supportive. Not to mention, there were SO MANY gay and bisexual characters portrayed in Elementary in a very positive light. Mrs. Hudson, although demoted to a guest character, was played by a trans woman (THE Candis Cayne).
elementary was a good show and even in 2013 era fandom time i just couldn't get why sherlock fans hated it lol. the success or failure of elementary would have no bearing on bbc sherlock anyways. why couldnt both co-exist? why couldn't it be like the 'same hat' meme? i was always kinda sad the elementary fandom was never as big or involved as bbc sherlocks. where is my joan fanart yall?? elementry was fresh and funny and had lucy goddamn liu, not to mention it had, you know, actual crimes and mysteries to solve. The point when i fell off the show was ****spoilers i guess?**** when joan slept with sherlock's brother. it just felt so completely out of character for her, i kept thinking it was some kind of joke. but that was a while ago now, i really should go and finish the show considering how much i liked it to begin with.
... honestly, I half-shipped them. Like, I wanted them to be in a relationship. I didn’t care if it was romantic or platonic. I just wanted them together.
Reminds me of when Hal Prince asked Andrew Lloyd Webber about what the deeper meaning behind the Broadway show Cats was and Andrew replied: “Hal...It’s about cats...”
Still thinking about the one time I brought up queerbaiting in a conversation with my sister, only to realize that she had absolutely no idea what it was, and so I said "you watched Sherlock right?" and immediately she said "Oh I get it" and the conversation ended
To be clear, I was fully intending on using Sherlock as a case study, partially because of how infamous it is, and partially because she's actually watched the show and would know what I'm talking about. I'm still cackling at the fact that the mere mention of the show's name was enough for her to wrap her head around the concept in the space of a couple seconds
Not to mention that Joan and Sherlock in _Elementary_ have no romantic chemistry whatsoever-the whole ‘sober companion’ thing was introduced precisely so that they could live together without heteronormative viewers assuming they had to be a couple.
These comments about Elementary made me not want to watch it for a long time. Then I watched it and, ignoring the fact that Sherlock Holmes is a buff cishet (I'm sorry, I just needed to joke about it lmao), it is a surprisingly good portrayal of the characters and it has less plotholes than BBC Sherlock. Not only that but it seems wayyy less offensive, so even though I do not like some writing choices - such as what they did to Irene Adler - I like it a lot.
@@herlocksholmes-uv5qwwhat did they do with Irene Adler? cant be worse then what the BBC one did. also, Sherlock is definitely buff, he was an expert wrestler
All of the stars looked like they were gonna align but then you realize you’ve been looking at it wrong and the constellation forms into a hand flipping you off
Or if you don't have the excitement to convince you that it will totally be fine no really, it's like excitedly watching a Skywriter at work when you realise they are just spelling out a slur in the sky and have to watch it to conclusion out of sheer shock that they're doing it.
Avid Elementary fan here. How bizarre their hatred for Liu given that her Watson never has any romantic sub-plots with Sherlock. Their really just friends and coworkers who respect each other and can relate to each other on a different level.
@@zinkheroofyoutube8004 I see it as Sherlock has never been closer to anyone (on-screen) than Joan so any words of affection or hugs he initiated would be romantic to any other pairing of a straight woman and man, friends or more. Joan constantly tells people they're not sleeping together in season one...almost as frequently as John says he's not gay lol. They always gave platonic life partners TO ME
I'm not a fan of the show but i think I've read somewhere that the director of the show really wanted to make Sherlock explicitly queer in elementary but wasn't allowed to so
The sheer, unadulterated *nerve* of Steven Moffatt making fun of fans analysing unexplained clothing changes to try and catch his foreshadowing - given that he literally did *EXACTLY* that in Doctor Who (the Doctor's jacket changes, as shown by his sleeve, in one of his episodes with the weeping angels, and it allowed fans to deduce correctly what was going on before it was revealed much later). Honestly one of the most pigheaded, ungrateful, mind-bogglingly arrogant attitudes I've seen from any creator in the modern day. He's not even that good at plotting or writing. He uses three or four words to death ('clever', 'brilliant', and the dreaded 'sexy'), he's nowhere near as imaginative as Russell T Davies, and his endings suck. AND he keeps insisting on trying to tell me how awesome The Doctor or Sherlock or whoever is, every other bloody story ends with a 'don't you know who I am???' monologue and it's BORING. Boo to you, Moffatt. Boo to you. I don't know what that means about MGatts either, which is the bummer for me. I was a big, big fan from his TLOG days, which had such a cult following I would have expected him to appreciate his fans - maybe not though. Boo.
There is something almost funny about how he was surprised fans of a DETECTIVE SHOW wanted to solve a mystery by looking at clues. Like, dude, the whole fun of the novels was trying to figure out the mystery before the reveal,
He literally egged on people too! Asked them to speculate and look into the show carefully. He prided himself on putting easter eggs and little clues in the background and having it all tie in to one huge important mystery. Also the blatant disrespect to the queer audience that he built. He made a lesbian straight for sherlock obviously queerbaited the hell out of a relationship that was already know to be more than just friends. Also not to mention that he turned doctor who so weird and confusing that I stopped watch because I couldn't follow his convoluted plot lines.
Oh god, not the "don't you know who I am???" monologue, that takes me right back to being a Whovian in the Moffat era...thank god I was more into the classic series so I didn't get into AS much Moffat discourse. I never really got into Sherlock either. I remember I watched the 1st season.
I've always wondered whether Gatiss maybe cared more about being in the show than writing it. He struck me as a real Sherlock Holmes nerd, and he ended up casting himself as Mycroft, who has always been referred to as the smarter Holmes brother (Don't get me wrong, I thought he played Mycroft really well, but it ironically looks like the move of a fanfiction writer putting themselves in the story.) And when the show wasn't being Moffat-y, it was constantly throwing out references to the original books, a lot of the time for no purpose other than to go, "Look, an Arthur Conan Doyle reference!" Then again, being an OG Sherlock Holmes fanboy could also have soured him on the influx of new fans being teenage girls who had crushes on Cumberbatch (Not like we haven't seen *that* reaction in fan communities before.)
_google_ Apparently this is a Supernatural thing? If only someone recently released a video about the Supernatural finale that could explain what was going on.
As someone who works at a law firm, I just realized that a 30 year old lawyer is probably just an associate. Not a partner. A baby attorney fresh out of law school who stays late to do the senior lawyers’ bidding on cases. Her behavior suddenly makes a lot more sense. (I’ve watched this video numerous times, and as I near 30 myself, I can totally see someone my age getting up to the shit that Blossom did.)
Yeah, there’s a special kind of immaturity you only get by spending your twenties going straight from college to grad school without any break for life experience in between.
as a person who was DEEP in the sherlock fandom at its prime, i can honestly say that elementary was the superior modern sherlock adaptation. they handled how sherlock dealt with complex emotions and addiction and his relationships so much more maturely than bbc sherlock, and ACTUALLY portrayed how a deep and significant platonic friendship between holmes and watson could look like without ever baiting us with romance between them
I mean, elementary is more a procedural crime drama like CSI, which gets kinda boring after a few seasons. So I wouldn't say either are the best modern sherlock adaptation. But after reading and watching videos as part of the bbc sherlock fandom i was kinda anti elementary and thought every one who said it was the better adaption was a conan doyle purist and probably homophobic :D So yeah, i was pretty surprised how cool it is. I like the sick boy/mr knightly actor and lucy liu is amazing. And I shouldn't say that so far down in a rant, but GENDERSWAPPED WATSON and NO ROMANTIC ENTANGELEMENT are just - chefs kiss. You'd think they'd genderswap her for easy het relationship drama, but they didn't. I do think thats actually the best aspect, how they subverted my expectation that romance was gonna happen eventually but they just had the best friendship.
American remakes of popular British shows were pretty common at the time (Being Human, Life on Mars,) and they had all been hollow cash-ins that basically stripped away what had made the show popular in the first place and replaced it with something more typical to American TV. Elementary was a show that actually benefited from that, because the stuff that made Sherlock popular was the very stuff that eventually made it implode on itself and outed the series as not being nearly as clever as it had pretended.
you're so right, i feel like people defend sherlock bbc so frickin much like please go watch the whole show. except for a few good episodes the whole thing kinda....flopped crazy plot twists everywhere for no damn reason and yeah elementary was definitely better
Elementary is excellent and you should say it. The friendship between Sherlock and Joan is absolutely amazing. I'm so happy they didn't go down the romance route.
@@SarahZ tangentially related: I would love to see a deep dive in the history and popularity of "Twist and Shout"/Destiel in general. I know you did a video about queerbaiting, but I'm interested in more of the details about that ship and massive fanfiction specifically (it even has a Goodreads page) (and I have read all of it, yes)
I am creeped out by adults fighting with literal children over shipping characters in a fandom. How tf did Blossom get a law degree with such a childish and unprofessional personality?
If it makes you feel better, she’s probably usually unemployed and not actually working on cases; and/or is just a secretary or something at a law firm. Actual practicing attorneys don’t have that much free time to yell about fandom discourse online.
Moffat's got an obsession with semi-villainous imposing women who make special exceptions for the male lead, and who are like superficially "strong" despite being smothered in gender roles in all the dialogue and always getting outplayed by the male lead
Remember when River Song who was greatly implied to be this cool action hero woman (and was later characterized as such) was given all of the books ever written to live out her life in and chose to be a boring ass house wife? I'm pretty sure he's actually had an interview where he says that he thinks all women deep down actually want to be moms. He's such a pig
@@Zorae42 i knew the moment i clicked 'view reply' that i was gonna see River's name lmao she was such a beautifully badass character, Moffat's just a misogynist and doesn't know how to write women in stories without his shitty views on women. and people wonder why every fandom hates him.
okay he definitely was an ass in all that you guys are talking about but what about bill? idk if y’all have seen season 10 but she seemed like a good lesbian character written by moffat
@@karen-sm4gw [SPOILERS] he still ended up killing Bill off at the end of the one season she was on. she was a great character imo, but he still contributed to the hundreds of other lazy writers out there who just kill off their LGBT+ characters when they don’t know what else to do with them.
The thing that kills me about this is I’m an attorney and former Glee fan, and your take could not be more correct 😂 (I am not blossom, nor do I have the misfortune of knowing her)
The main thing I've learned in all these fandom drama post-mortems is that it's always a rogue 30-something fan dedicating their whole ass life to being toxic online, not teenagers being shitty.
They also always seem to be someone with a good job and even a family, i.e. someone who has real responsibilities and has absolutely no business putting so much effort into gaining internet clout.
@@PassTheMarmalade1957 I'd say it's the opposite. The fact that they're wealthy is a big reason why they can dedicate so much time and mental capacity to insignificant things. You think someone worried about if they'll meet rent this month has time to be upset about meaningless shit like a fictional non-canonical couple?
i feel like it's because they're older that they manage to leave a huge impact, like a teen would lose interest or not have the ambition or just make some mistake so they fade into obscurity before causing this level of disaster. or they straight up back out when the pressure mounts/their family catches on an pulls the plug. but a 30yr old has more confidence, more understanding of how to manipulate a crowd, something like that. i'm sure there's exceptions though, if this is even true in the first place.
I'm married to an asexual person So the concept that Sherlock being Ace would make Johnlock impossible is sorta hilarious to me. Not all ace people want to be in romantic relationships but it's not unheard of.
Based on the fact that these people went on crusades against those who wanted Sherlock to be a top instead of a bottom, you can safely assume that the sex part was all they really were interested in.
@@ScavengerKing has it right. For people like blossom (het adult women) it was all about fetishising gay men in highly sexual “dirty sin boykissing” ways
@@ScavengerKing I could write a whole thing on versatility and the idea that strict adherence to the dichotomy is just reinforcing gender roles but that's too much effort for this
As a former Sherlock fan who gave up after the horrendous third season, I got all the validation I needed from following along Gravity Falls. It had all the same pieces Sherlock claimed to have with small inconsistencies that seemed to have deeper meaning, leaked fake screenshots created by Alex Hirsch himself and a real life treasure hunt across the globe. The only difference was that it actually delivered in every way it promised it would.
@@joseaguilar3323 oh they openly teased and hinted at doing shit like this- that mysteries can be solved by the audience and then they made them feel dumb for doing what they said.
@@slamacat9866 "They openly teased and hinted at doing shit like this" Can you tell me how? Because as someone who enjoyed the first three seasons and was (and is) heavily involved in the Sherlock Holmes fandom (as in the books and other adaptations) I saw none of that. It always seemed like an expectation coming exclusively from Tumblr.
@@joseaguilar3323 sorry for the late reply. I'll start off easy- they had a background social media based arg going on (no not the season 5 rumour) which had offical accounts for sherlock and john and character who was meant to be stalking them basically, this story went no where despite having a lot of info put into iy. Then there are also a lot of interviews with moftiss and other crew members saying that people CAN solve these mysteries themselves (y'know before they made fun of them for doing just that) and they of course kept saying stuff like "there are no coincedences" in regards to legit plot holes. It should also be mentioned that most of the people who were making theories and such were teenagers who had respect for this show- they fully believed what was being said and felt they were doing what was expected and havkng fun with it
They also took a character pretty widely accepted to be Autistic, amped up his Autistic traits a ton, had John _literally use the word Aspergers in relation to Sherlock_ at some point, then stuck with the "High Functioning Sociopath" narrative and got super defensive in interviews when the Autistic-coding was pointed out. Almost like it's a pattern with these people..... (Wanna know who else does this? The writers of the Big Bang Theory. Apparently Sheldon Cooper is not Autistic. Because if he was, they'd have to confront how horrible and mean-spirited the jokes about him are.)
The high functioning sociopath things pains me so much, like Moffat look at canon Holmes. Do you see his special interests, his "i want to be alone", his *STIMMING WHEN HE GETS EXCITED*? You seeing that Moffat? Sociopaths are different; they are usually trauma-made and- and they don't feel as much regret Sherlock Holmes shows to feel- they even end to manipulate more and YES Holmes manipulates people in canon as well - agatha from charles augustus milverton per say.. - but doesn't have any other screaming symptom of sociopathy. It annoys me
This could be word for word replaced with Mofftis opening their Dracula with the sentence "did you have sex with Dracula" and then sneering in interviews that Dracula is 'just bihomicidal'. They literally do not change, ever. When oh when will the BBC put these men in the bin
Lol I had a creative writing teacher give me this advice once. 'Write about this identity but don't explicitely say the character is that thing, then you don't have to take responsibility if you do a shitty job (a.k.a perpetuate harmful stereotypes)!'. Glad I didn't take it.
my favorite part of this is that everyone involved in this was in full improv mode. when someone proposed one nutty theory nobody would ever say “no that’s nuts” they would always say “yes! and..”
Plot twist: this is a coded message funded by Mofftis that reveals the location of the secret episode making Johnlock canon. Watch for the light/white dot appearing above her right shoulder. Put together the words said corresponding with the dots, run through google translate three times, arrange according to memory palace logic, and the url will be revealed to you, true TJLC believers.
fun fact, my mother, who is almost 60, was and is one of the more well-known Sherlock fanartists. She has done ship art of Johnlock, and at one point shipped them herself, though she was never part of TJLC, to my knowledge. She's also one of like 8 people who still go to Sherlock conventions, and meets up with a group of Sherlock fans every month (or, she did back when that was still a thing).
ruclips.net/video/LkoGBOs5ecM/видео.html Fake-Feminism, Fake-Intellegence and Fake-Characterization. Here's a video that lists it all. This show was extremly bad and has nothing smart about it. It depowers woman (and men too) as Irene Adler is an infinitely inferior version of her book-self. Among other problems.
@@slevinchannel7589 I appreciate you spreading the video, but why under this comment? I’m talking about it so I’ve clearly already seen it, plus the video above even links “Sherlock Is Terrible” in one of the info tabs of the video
What I find most baffling about this whole affair is Blossom's angry reaction to the Roland Barthes/Death of the Author analysis of tjlc; its not trying to "kill the fun" of the ship, its just observing the nature of tjlc running opposed to Death of the Author theory, and despite being bloated with overwritten run-on sentences, the observations do technically make sense. Then Blossom tries to claim that her LAW degree is comparable to that poster's MEDIA degree, and thinks that because she's a lawyer, she can spot errors in a media essay? What? OP wasn't even decrying tjlc as much as voicing an academic interest in the phenomenon.
"Blossom is a lawyer. She's not stupid." As a former attorney law librarian allow me to say - *BOLD* assertion. Truly bold. Most lawyers aren't stupid. Some lawyers raise questions as to how they passed the LSAT let alone the Bar.
In my experience, people using their profession or studies as proof of their intelligence (especially when they throw it into completely unrelated conversations) is a big red flag to take everything they say with a heap or two of salt. I don't know why people do it so often, other than to impress people with the letters they have after their name - I've met doctors that I wouldn't trust to calculate a tip
@Harlequin Doe I wholly agree. I think the more morally questionable side of scientific curiosity is a different thing entirely however. I can imagine there are areas with important research to be done; where perception of that research can either prevent or discredit it, once enough people complain. Sadly some research that shouldn't have been done (don't need to give examples) has had a massive benefit on humanity as a whole. Other than that, its ridiculous when people think their education makes them knowledgable in a "less complicated" field. Especially when they disregards experts in that field. I don't care what someone knows about physics, doesn't mean they're an authority in political discussion for anything unrelated to their field. Some kind of generalised Dunning-Kruger effect I guess
Just adding medical doctors to the list of "dont assume theyre not stupid" pile - quite a few have practically attempted to murder people through being bullheaded, outright stubborn, or just plain stupid.
@@Xeronoia my first Stepcousin once removed’s pregnancy doctor (not sure the word) might as well have been named Fuckup McDumbass. His poor judgement is the reason why my stepcousin (her son) is in a wheelchair and will never have a job/family and will live at home-because his umbilical cord got caught around his neck. Fortunately my First Stepcousin once removed and her husband were (are) lawyers and were able to sue and get a shit ton of money
i don’t usually think “saying benedict cumberbatchs name weird” jokes are funny but something about the casual way sarah delivers those lines just completely throw me off and makes me lose it
Ikr, that happened once with my father saying something like "bandersnatch cucumber" in a casual sentence and I was just so thrown off guard. Like how do you know that meme lmao
In regards to the, "Mark Gattis must secretly be straight otherwise he wouldn't have queerbaited the audience" idea. Ursula K LeGuin spoke in interviews about how despite creating the Earthsea books to be more inclusive and diverse than the fantasy being published at the time, and today, the early books had her female characters in either background or stereotypical roles and she didn't give it much thought until later in the series. It's not cause she was secretly misogynist, just that the women in the fantasy works that inspired her were written that way so she ended up replicating it in her own work without thinking. I'd guess that it's a similar thing with Gattis. I mean, no homo jokes or baiting were pretty common in a lot of media both British and American, so he might have just included them or gave the go ahead to Moffat to include them without realizing what he was doing. Given how flimsy the storytelling of the show was from the get go, wouldn't surprise me.
The Earthsea books are so good though! I love them so much! And the second book has a female main character who's written so well. Tenar's struggle makes the second book my favorite out of the whole series (Of the first four anyway, I haven't gotten to the last two yet)
I'd guess Gattis doesn't really care and is perfectly fine with queerbaiting if it gets a viewerbase for his series. he's not a queer media pioneer, he's a rich man who happens to be gay.
@@luckystriker842 i dont think thats the argument, i think thats just the explanation. someone can be gay and participate in making media that queerbaits.
leguin actually reflected on her own work though, and made an effort to course correct down the line. gattis seems...less introspective, more combative.
The horrible truth about Mofftis is they disrespected their fans, disrespected the mystery genre by MOCKING their fans for trying to solve the mystery that yes “they made us care about” - this season made me think “oh ok cool they don’t give a shit about us”
As cringy as I found the fandom, and it was so cringy, it was absolutely assholish from the creators to be so disdainful of their fans. And they didn't have the excuse of being young teens.
I definitely stopped watching the show completely when I watched the first episode after Sherlock escapes death and they both refuse to explain how he did it and mock people for trying to figure it out. That's the moment that I looked back at the rest of the show and realized how contrived it was.
@Najawin Are you seriously claiming that a Sherlock Holmes story can be anything BUT a mystery story? How disgustingly insulting to an English institution.
I was a fan back when I was 15 so the scenes where the show runners outright mocked the fans just went over my head completely, like I thought the Moriarty/Sherlock kiss was fanservice for example. It only dawned on me that it was mockery all along after I stopped being a fan
@Najawin Erasing Sherlock is a story that takes place around Holms. It isn't a Sherlock Holmes story and the same goes for the Book of the Enemy. Referencing terrible Doctor Who media doesn't buttress your claims to speak with any authority on literature or authorship. Also what amounts to fanfiction of Holmes still involves a mystery because.... that's what a Holmes story is. A mystery.
I am not sure if it is her scariest topic so far. I only knew about the Onceler debacle for about two seconds and from the outside. Finding about the whole "oncest" have scarred me for life...
But legitimately though, I do really really wish there was more male/male gay representation in shows of any kind, especially mystery/adventure ones. If anyone knows like any examples at all of this (not just token gay dudes, I mean relationships) please please tell me. As a gay dude I feel unrepresented
watching House as of reading this. You are coming with a very valid point. I also love how they don't even try to hide it, example being Dr. Watson. Just makes the show that little bit better
Yes but House MD had no fragile connection to Brandywine Cummerbund so they of course they ignored it. IMHO at the true heart of this hysteria there wasn't any kind of attachment to the IP or even the character of Sherlock Holmes, it was just extreme concentrated thirst for Bandersnatch Cabbagecorp. It was never about the characters, it was about them being hyper defensive of a thing that they could thirst over him in, and hating anything that they saw as a rival or inferior version of it.
I watched House from childhood through to when it ended. Then I eventually picked up Sherlock in 2013. I spent most of my teen years in the Sherlock fandom (was not a shipper though, I tried to avoid most drama). After all that, I can now safely say that House is the superior adaptation... even though it technically isn't an adaptation... but technically is? I can still enjoy House, I cannot say the same about Sherlock.
I wish I had had this video to explain everything to me when my daughter was 12 and watching BBC live streams night and day, hoping to be there when they suddenly dropped the real final gay episode of Sherlock. It was literally weeks before she eased off of that fixed belief, and I could not wrap my brain around what was happening. This helps retroactively at least.
fun fact, sherlock fandom got into beef with the transformers fandom after the finale happened. see, sherlock fans started shortening "the final problem" into "tfp". this is all well and good... except that a very, VERY popular transformers series that began airing in 2010 and had ended in 2013 was named transformers prime... this included the shortened tag "tfp". transformers fans were a little befudded when the still VERY active tag for the transformers prime show began getting a deluge of sherlock related imagery, rants, the works. they asked for sherlock fans to, maybe, um, get another tag name please? and instead the sherlock fans said no and told the transformers fandom to stop using the "tfp" tag they'd been using for the past 7 years. someone apparently even posted an eviction notice for the transformers fans. what resulted was apparently a mass-spamming of transformers fanworks, to spite the sherlock fans using the tag aggressively.
I got a lot of hate for that because I was part of the transformers fandom at the time. I had to leave Tumblr and never really came back. Best thing that ever happened since that is such an absolute hell site
Imagine spending months or years writing a book, it gets published, it gets picked up for a BBC adaptation, and then people are just complaining that it's not a secret good Sherlock episode.
Oh buddy you don't even know. I recently decided to get into an older show, then decided "haha I will now consume some fanworks :)" and these MFs were still using "Yaoi" and "BL" and "BoyLove" in the year of our Lord 2021.
“Sherlock fans migrated to It‘s Always Sunny in Philadelphia.” My jaw dropped. I had no idea that was a thing. I mean, I suppose it makes a kind of sense? If you’re burned out on a dumb show that pretends to be smart, move on to a smart show that pretends to be dumb, I guess.
Also, there's sort of a similar dynamic with MacDennis where there's enough There in the show to make you think they'd at least hook up. I mean, "Mac and Dennis Move to the Suburbs" is essentially them trying their best to make a relationship work (and failing miserably).
This was around the time Mac came out. TJLC people wanted a new endgame to believe in and migrated to believing Mac and Dennis were going to get together at the end of season 12. The MacDennis Conspiracy.
@@SingleMadoka Oh my god. I get that we want gays and we want them now, I get that Dennis is hinted-bi-or-at-least-happy-if-it-gives-him-attention, I get shipping toxic pairings (I'm not even a Hannigram fan, I shipped Gideon/Chilton, babeeeyyy), but unless Dennis gets therapy and meds, the only way for Mac to have a happy ending is if Charlie discovers he's at least a one on the Kinsey scale
@@misterbadguy7325 While Mac is obviously in love with Dennis I cannot imagine a worse fate for him (or anyone) than being in a romantic relationship with Dennis Reynolds.
She also had a deeply meaningful and respectful but 100% platonic relationship with Sherlock and i wish people realised that was a thing that can happen
As someone working in fandom studies, seeing Johnlock as literally an intentionally cultivated thing through the BBC 'Fanagement' document is eerie. Basically, the action of the showrunners was not 'oopsie doopsie, we didn't know we were affecting our fans like this,' it's LITERALLY part of an internal BBC document about 'how to exploit fans' and includes information like 'make the show gifable.'
I think it’s pretty disgusting how almost an entire all male team (writers, actors, etc - but especially moffat) belittled teenage girls for liking something in their own way. Like imagine being a 40 something man and bullying a 15 year old.
Listening to the acephobia part of the video while drawing a pride themed illustration of Jonathan Sims, canonically ace protagonist of The Magnus Archives, gives of the same feeling as the janitor that keeps mopping the floor during a fight scene in an action movie.
This is the second TMA comment I’ve seen and how I wish I could just tell every young queer kid during the finale’s air that a horror podcast is going to do so much more than any big budget show for any amount of representation they could possibly dream of. I’d have lost my fucking shit if I discovered it back in 2017. Side note: I demand to see Jonny fanart.
@@biancamlf288same, it's the second tma comment I see here and it tells me that we're all healing our Sherlock related trauma with horror. But jokes aside TMA is so many levels higher than Sherlock, plot-wise and in the way they write characters (especially queer ones). Nature is healing
@@7Mushrooms7 its a podcast! its a horror tragedy that starts off as an anthology but slowly spirals (this is a pun btw) into an overarching plot where you realize everything was connected all along and start screaming. it recently got a "sidequel" as the writer calls it, The Magnus Protocol, so its a really good time to get into those! highly recommend, it has taken over my life :D
Rule of thumb: if something looks like bad writing... it's probably just bad writing. I've heard multiple stories of fanbases that bend over backwards trying to claim that something is 'bad on purpose', because it's part of a conspiracy, or the creator is trying to stick it to the higher ups, or the narrator was a troll this whole time so of course they gave you a shitty clichéd ending, and just decide to play 4D chess with themselves rather than consider the possibility that the content was actually incompetent. People just don't put that much hard work into making things that are 'bad on purpose'
@@anawithonen4489 right? Intentionally bad parodies obviously do exist but they're usually one-offs, the thing that makes My Immortal so wild is just how much effort was put into making it intentionally bad
_Gravity Falls_ is the fan involved mystery show that Sherlock wishes it was, Alex Hirsch is the real "throw everything at them and see if they can solve it" king, lol.
"the powerpuff girls weren't the first people to theorize that john and sherlock would be endgame" never thought i would hear that sentence but here we are
As someone who: - Never had a Tumblr account - Wasn’t on the internet until I was around 16-17 - Has never engaged in fandom culture until very recently - Still generally doesn’t engage in shipping content I was still pretty convinced that BBC Sherlock was written to be queer coded. I watched BBC Sherlock upwards of four times back in its peak. Never participated in the fandom once. I never knew any of this was happening. Even with that it mind, I just assumed that BBC was intentionally queer-coding Sherlock and John Watson and just couldn’t pull the trigger on making in canon. I assumed it would either happen eventually, or the series would ambiguously hint at it then end. It’s absolutely written in a way that leads the watcher to believe so, whether they’re in the fandom or not. Learning about all this nonsense now, it’s so boggling to me that the show runners: A) Never had any intention of queer coding the show B) Actively mocked and pushed back against fans for the shipping culture that sprung out of it This channel’s content has been so fascinating to me. It’s like looking up and realized you just barely dodged a train hitting you, over and over again, for years. 10/10 👍
I wasn't there when this happened. I heard a out sherlock and people shipping johnlock but only recently watched the show and had no idea about the drama. And wasn't involved in fandom. And still I legit thought it was gay coded on purpose with the intent of giving it romantic subtext. I'm baffled that the creators now act like it was all in the fans' imagination.
My nonexistent ship was Molly/Irene. Molly deserved better than Sherlock BY FAR and I thought Irene would treat her with the respect and kindness she deserved. Irene would know how much it sucks to have.... anything with Sherlock and the two of them would help each other heal, go on cute dates, and scheme together.
Aww, I really love the sound of that! I would watch a full series with those two as the lesbian leads :3 Agreed that both Molly and Irene deserved better
I have read all 30 fanfics of molrene in ao3, I'm that desperate for molrene content. As a fellow Sapphic, I was upset when they hinted things about Irene being in love with sherlock. And TBH, Molly deserved better.
The whole vitriolic hate against Mary is one example in a long list of female characters/actresses getting thrown under the bus by a fanbase due to getting in the way of an otp when will it end....
And that's fcked up, bc I think there were valid, not hateful reasons to dislike Mary. They made her have this elaborate secret identity for no reason and it was cliche as hell, so much so she didn't feel like a full character to me, but a plot device. And then they offed her in the least climactic way possible with her doctor husband not doing a damn thing about it.
@@ShersterQ Honestly Mary was also done dirty, at the end it felt like she was there just to give John and Sherlock a baby for totally straight reasons
It's really pathetic that Martin Freeman even had to threaten to quit and never do Sherlock related stuff ever again if the fandom didn't leave his partner alone. The vitriol the actress got for daring to star in a role that ruined people's fanfics was disturbing
@@lois7956 That's horrible, I think I checked out of fandom stuff before seeing how bad it had gotten. I thought it was so cute they were an IRL actor couple being Mary and John Watson like come on. This is why we can't have nice things
I'm not in the supernatural fandom and don't plan to be, so I felt kinda bad for laughing when I saw that scene on twitter. Ik some fans were grieving, but I couldn't get over the guys face as the other guy was confessing. He looked like he was ready to punch the gay away during that confession. And the other guy getting sent to super hell right after? Yeah I wheezed. I've never seen a gay love confession be so homophobic😂
@@ashleym6044 i know a lot of ppl are saying that but it's usually just for the reason you stated. you haven't seen the show. dean is one of the most like repressed characters. he hardly shows emotions cause he grew up with a horrible dad who was one of those ones that would be like "boys don't show emotion" and stupid shit like that. no one has ever told him something like that before in that moment. sure, his parents and brother have said i love you before but usually that's it and hardly ever. he doesn't know how to act. that confession just came out of nowhere and he's shocked, confused and scared and doesn't know what to do because his best friend of 12 years is literally telling him he's the most amazing person he ever met while dean hates himself like in every way. the acting in that scene is subtle and it's gets me everytime. if you just pay attention to his eyes, the way his head moves and the way you can see him holding back tears. he doesn't know what to say and do in that moment, and i think most people would do the same. if my best friend suddenly came out with something like that i would probably just be frozen bc no one has ever said something so meaningful and you know that this is a goodbye. the reason why dean didn't say much is because he didn't know what to say, and he's trying to show it instead even if it's subtle. the way he says "don't do this cas," i know a lot of ppl said it's like kind of homophobic but its' not at all. he's not the best with words and he's trying "not like this." because he knows he doesn't have time to say anything back and frankly he doesn't know what to say. there's lots of tumblr posts with the gifs and it goes into full detail but i just wrote this as quickly as i could, so some of my wording sucks. sorry, that was really long but i've seen so many ppl say his reaction was like homophobic and it just annoys me cause they usually haven't seen the show or watched it in years. so i just had to vent
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
update: blossom is back on tumblr now and sarcastically said that i basically called her a war criminal. war never changes
Just ignore her.
You hate to see it 🤣
We live in the funniest, and dumbest, timeliem
@@wdalbright i'm not mad lol, it's just wild
Imagine telling someone “Hey, you being a die-hard tjlc fan and harassing people who disagree is not okay” and your immediate response being “she basically called me a war criminal”
imagine resurrecting sir conan arthur doyle and explaining this to him.
He didn’t like Sherlock fans when he was alive can’t imagine what he would think of all this
@@jupiterisaak1004 really?
@@jupiterisaak1004 ooh I heard about he revived Sherlock because of the fans but I didn't think there was any malice!
@@haileygiabiconi8830 I think it was maybe more resentment than true malice. That Sherlock was bigger than him than him as a writer. I think people seem to assume fanatical fandoms only happened due to internet. When in reality “crazy” fandoms have always existed. They also tend to put a strain on their creators see game of thrones or Star Wars as further examples.I think eventually George Lucas said something like “Star Wars was my destiny” but it took him years to get that point of acceptance.
the poor guy would crawl back into his own grave and ask to be reburied lmao
SECRET GOOD FOURTH SHERLOCK EPISODE
I expected this comment, but not from the man himself
But can we agree the line "Get out, I am in my mind palace." is a good line
Also Hi Hpbomberguy-
Have a good evening buddy!
eat my beans
HE HAS BEEN S U M M O N E D
The one clue that fans missed is that Steven Moffat hates everyone who watches his shows.
true. the pond era is my era of doctor who, but other than that, i try to avoid everything he touches.
@Najawin how would you defend him mocking fans of his work then? And I'm not just talking about johnlock fans, just his penchant for humiliating the people who enjoy his work?
Fans should have pretended to hate JonLock and he'd make it canon out of spite
Blech
@Najawin he doesn't actually have to be great, he can just have someone hint at his unimaginable greatness that can't be paralleled so he never has to actually demonstrate it himself.
It’s been so many years and I still can’t get over the fact that Moffet wrote an ending that was so bad the fandom was convinced it was bad on purpose
Meanwhile, in another fandom, it's been joked that the Attack on Titan author followed up a controversial manga ending that "divided the fanbase" with an epilogue so terrible that *everyone* hated it.
@@vitoc8454Ah did they expand on the Code Geass rip ending beyond the Mikasa ending or am I missing something?
@@vitoc8454I actually quite liked the epiloque ending 😅
@@vitoc8454I liked the epilogue.
@@vitoc8454Not only that, but a part of the fandom (myself included) thought that the chapters leading to the Rumbling where a collective illusion created by Eren's Founding powers, much like with Sherlock's secret episode. Not as much because they were narratively bad (the following chapters would be far worse) but because they were plagued with inconsistencies so obvious that even seemed intentional, such as Gabi casually riding a horse despite having thrown a tantrum about not knowing how to ride a horse just some episodes prior. None of those theories eventually amounted to anything lol
That poor set designer, just trying to do his job and express a love of elephants.
He just wanted to make some nice sets with pretty apple tree wallpaper 😂
@Tangential_Tangine Nangi would have issue with that statement, if she cared enough.
He knew what he was doing....
@@cortneyperfume_madness480 I know that this is a joke but, if people were so invested in my minor role in production, I would knowingly do shit to mess with them.
Then he's an idiot. That's not how set design works. Everything in the set is supposed to reveal some meaning or reflect the characters and their inner lives. So saying I just like elephants is either a complete lie or this guy doesn't understand set design.
i stopped watching sherlock after i broke up with the girl who introduced it to me so the biggest impact it ever had on my life was that every time i plug in my phone and miss the charger hole, i think about how sherlock would call me an alcoholic
i'm pretty sure i only ever watched the first season but LORD the charger thing has been living in my brain rent free for like six fucking years now and i don't think i can escape it
RELATE
this comment
I’m so glad others also cant forget this oh my god
OH GOD YES
when she said people shipped johnlock before the show adaptation I legit started imagining two teenage girls from the 1800's whispering excitedly about a forbidden love between Sherlock and John and how they'd have to sneak around and all the adventures and mishaps that would ensue.
That would make for a work of fiction that BBC Sherlock could only dream of beign as complelling... in the right hands of course
"Edith, m-maybe, Sherlock and John are.. homosexuals??"
"Scandalous Theodosia"
Then they fall in love abababab
@@charliejones3272 this is actually brilliant I love you
And then later it turns out they're lesbians. I would write that. More likely I'd just read it though.
TJLR: The overall reading comprehension on this site is piss poor
Blossom: How dare you say we piss on the poor
what the hell is does tjlr mean
"I mean you're right, but how dare you say it?"
I can't believe you'd accuse the Powerpuff girls of being Sherlock fans
Blossom needs a Snickers.
@@Eutrofication tbf I've seen it multiple times and I still read it just now thinking they meant TLDR for a bit
Imagine writing a finale so bad that fans refuse to believe that it's actually the end lol
Danny Phantom enters the chat...
@Chrissy K I mean, that's a counter example. I've never heard of anyone trying to pretend the GoT finale wasn't the real one and that a secret good finale would come out anytime! It was however a finale so bad it retroactively made the last 2-3 seasons bad and unwatchable for a lot of people.
*Voltron LD has entered the chat*
I couldn't believe it the day it came out and I still struggle to believe it now. HOW CAN IT ACTUALLY BE THAT BAD?!? HOW???
@@jaimeerindy4573 It's SO bad. It's just kind of an... "THAT is what they're going with?" Ending.
I choose to believe it was all a dream, because oh my god it was bad.
Imagine being hate crimed but you don't win your lawsuit because you think Sherlock is a top.
Lmao, that was the most shocking detail in this whole video, still reeling 😂
I think that would be fair
@@CelinaBruennert are you joking?
ruclips.net/video/LkoGBOs5ecM/видео.html Fake-Feminism, Fake-Intellegence and Fake-Characterization. Here's a video that lists it all.
This show was extremly bad and has nothing smart about it.
It depowers woman (and men too) as Irene Adler is
an infinitely inferior version of her book-self.
Among other problems.
@@moltendiamonds1567 yes yes don't worry
The writing was so bad that my man really said “there isn’t a fourth episode” and people still didn’t believe him 😂💀
I knowww lol like really imagine being him
man those were some fucking crazy times back then :D
Imagine you were dismissed from your job for bogus reasons, suspiciously soon after your employer found out you were part of a protected category under civil rights law. You get your big day in court, where you’re going to stick it to the bastards that took away your livelihood. All is going well, you’re even feeling confident when you take lunch. And, halfway through your soup, you look over.... and your civil rights lawyer is cyber bullying pre-teens on the internet because they don’t agree with her interpretation of how modern-day incarnations of Arthur Conan Doyle’s characters have sex.
Just think about that.
The writing was so bad that I wished there was a fourth episode
At least shows like Lost, Heroes, SuperNatural and others had the writter's strike to blame for shitty writting and missing episodes
Pro-tip for anybody in fandoms. If someone calls or considers themselves a "fandom mom", fucking RUN.
LITERALLY
Why is it so bad?
@birds i can see how the bad version of that can go....
“Fandom mom” is a title that cannot be self-conferred.
Fandom grandmas on the other hand? Sweeter then honey
"Heterosexuality and Ice Powers"
A new YA novel coming to a bookstore near you
Every fantasy book I read as a 13 year old except the ice powers is replaced by any other power ever
But didn't Addisson Cain invent heterosexuality in books? She'll sue for plagiarism in short order.
That would be A Song of Heterosexuality and Ice Powers
I'd read it
There are already four of those at minnimun, I garantee you thay
maybe the real queerbating was the friends we made along the way
nah at least some of the gays who were involved in this shitshow actually ended up in a relationship
It was never queerbaiting. Y'all were just desperate and that's not the producer's or writer's fault.
@@IceQueen975 well, i mean, the entire first episode was definitely something. and then the little nuggets scattered in every other episode. it wasn't cool for them to do that but how rabid the fans became was not cool either.
@@IceQueen975 Man, I watched the show with no interrest in shipping, never shipping any sherlock characters, not a part of the community, never read any fanfiction and never interracted with the community and even I was taking the piss out of how much the writers were clearly queerbaiting other people. The word gay is used more often than the word mystery.
I AM YELLING AHHAHA
Plot twist: this is actually the secret good fourth Sherlock episode.
The runtime checks out
Note: I hadn’t seen hbomberguy’s comment when I made this one, so I didn’t steal from it. Not on purpose anyway.
The real secret good fourth Sherlock episode was the friends we made along the way.
clowns, magpies and fish
@@theenglishman Based on the times, this one was posted first. You're in the clear.
Imagine if the theory was real. *Imagine* heading to *Picadilly Circus* to watch the presidential inauguration of Donald J Trump and it's The Secret Good Fourth Sherlock Episode. I think that would have instantly killed every human on earth
Imagine if they accidentally aired the Sherlock Finale, again, instead of Apple Tree Yard episode 1.
There are just so many ways the BBC could've fucked with Sherlock fans for no reason other than shits and giggles. Of course, none of the bureaucrats in charge of the BBC have ever had a shit or a giggle.
If I worked at the BBC I'd broadcast the finale 4 times on the 4th of April and then say "sorry but you missed it" as the only explanation. At this point if they fall for it it's their fault
To be fair, it would’ve been the funniest shit if Mofftiss and the BBC had faked the entire 2016 presidential election for the Secret Good Fourth Episode.
I guess johnlock is the 14 year old girl equivalent of q anon 💀 random dates and events that never happen. And involving Trump? Wtf lmao
@@IncredibleMD haha probably true
imagine thinking Lucy Liu was the "worst thing about Elementary"... dude, she was straight up the whole reason I watched the show
🍂🌟🌷Racism🌷🌟🍂
her wardrobe ALONE was reason to watch the show
As a fashion lesbian.... she and her wardrobe were the reasons for me to watch Elementary
@@shiloha5646 you're so right. i loved how in elementary, they showed sherlock holmes and joan watson (lucy liu) actually stay up late at night reading files and investigating crime scenes because that's exactly how crime solving should be. because of that, i could actually also try to logically solve the cases and managed to do so for a few episodes. it felt satisfying watching the show because i felt like i was helping out (and ofc i love watching lucy liu in a smart suit being a smart badass investigator haha)
@@TheAbigailDee i rewatched the show and i noticed that lucy liu actually gradually changes her fashion style. she started with more casual clothes during the first season. as she spent more time with sherlock, she started in incorporating more formal clothing, until she finally fully embraced the suit outfits and almost exclusively only wears suit outfits in the later seasons.
ah yes, the two genders: heterosexuality and ice powers.
I don't know why I found this so funny but it really cracked me up haha Cheers!
I have no idea what this about, but I can’t wait to find out...
@@ChandaurRoshini elsa.
@saint wifi your pfp is godly
@@eatgods i agree
November 6th, 2020: After Destiel is made canon, rumors begin spreading about a fifth season of Sherlock. My palms are sweating. My hands shake as I type. I can't do this. Not again. Superwholock II is coming.
Oh my god so much going on
And Hetalia is back. Holy shit, it’s 2012 2.0.
we got homestuck epilogues earlier this year, too
I saw a Rise of the Brave Tangled Dragons post getting traction in twitter and honestly had to take a nap.
Not to mention that David Tennant is returning to Doctor Who in the form of a companion.....2012 Tumblr really IS coming back.....
Could you imagine explaining all of this to sir Arthur Conan Doyle and him knowing this is what his legacy has come to
Given his own fans basically *forced* him to keep writing Holmes adventures & he hated his own character with the burning passion of a thousand suns… I think the only part that would surprise him is that anyone would talk about homosexual relationships so openly.
there were literally rallies in the streets after he killed off sherlock 😭😭
If there’s an afterlife I’ll be sure to tell him
He'd probably be pissed that Sherlock Holmes is still popular
No. Please no. Leave the poor man alone. I beg you.
why is it always people who want everyone to call them "the mom friend" or want to be seen as "the fandom mom" who end up being Like That
people like blossom are the reason so many teens and young adults don't trust older fans
I just think it's weird so many young fans seem to want a "fandom mom". For me, fandom was where I expressed myself without my mom hovering over me and I was taken seriously by adults who weren't sure of my age because I didn't advertise it. I also think it's weird how young fans these days *do* actually openly talk about their age, and are then shocked when someone they've been interacting with is a predator. The early days of the internet was _all about_ lying about your age. I claimed to be 14 starting when I was 12, then I claimed to be 16 when I was 14, and I always claimed to be 18 whenever porny fanfiction websites said "you must be 18, click this pop-up that says you're 18 to proceed."
God, sometimes I miss the early internet, those were the days.
@@erraticonteuse I think there's this idea of wanting mentorship and life advice from someone who "gets it"--not really a mom, but more of a protective older sister. Given that a lot of young fans have difficult relationships with their families I think it's understandable that some of them would seek that out, but then there's the question of power dynamics and influence and "fandom moms" not actually being mature or self-aware enough to recognize the consequences of their actions...idk, I was active in bandom for a couple years and while the older fans I interacted with were respected, there was definitely a lot of mistrust around them
@@peonylarkspur645 I do get that, but where really falls apart for me is when they call _themselves_ "fandom mom". It's one thing for their younger fans/friends to say, "haha you're my fandom mom" and for them to just smile and move on, but it's another thing entirely to self-appoint themselves as "fandom mom". Even aside from the weird power dynamics, it's just cringy. I mean, it's basically the same thing as Amy Poehler's "I'm not a regular mom, I'm a cool mom" in Mean Girls.
I'm not too familiar with fandom moms myself thankfully, but from what I understand it's usually a very specific type of person (typically a woman, but you never know) above the usual age range of the fandom. People like fujoshis who refer to men in relationships as their "sinful gay babies". They portray themselves as a "Fandom Mom" because it gives them an image of credibility and presents an easy in with vulnerable teenagers who might not have the best home life of their own. They groom minors into thinking that all their toxic behaviors (usually along the lines of pedophilia, incest, etc.) are Completely Fine Actually, and turn their "children" into little content factories as well as their own personal defense squad.
7 years and Im still so confused why the creators of a mystery show got so angry about their fans trying to solve a mystery
Because they wanted to build a fanbase of men in their 20s but ended up with one of mostly teenage girls, and our society absolutely despises everything teenage girls like.
@@riley8385 That makes so much sense
Honestly? It probably comes down to how rabid the fanbase was and how much it was pissing off every other fandom on the internet. Moffat saw his opening to continue a show where there was no conceivable explanation for the survival and he took it.
@@riley8385 My guess is that Moffat&co were trying to cater to the anti-hero trend that characterized “peak tv” at the time. But more of the depth shows that focus on a singular character and their importance.
Breaking Bad’s Walter White and The Soprano’s Tony Soprano come to mind. These have followings of young men who buy into the power fantasy of being a powerful, asshole-ish, anti-hero.
Moffat looked like he was trying to do this with Sherlock Holmes. He missed tho. Got the Tumblr fangirls instead. He’s been seemingly salty about it ever since.
My diagnosis would be that they didn’t start out that way. If you look at any of their interviews it becomes very clear that they see the show as a highly intelligent mystery/crime drama. The fans, meanwhile, very clearly see/saw the show as a soap opera. All of the GIFs/theories/fanfics/speculation/everything are about the characters and their relationships and feelings, not about the mysteries or plots. I think their contempt is largely from resentment that the fans were ‘watching it wrong’ and focusing on the ‘wrong things.’
I'm a grown ass adult now and could not care less about Sherlock, but I'm still so salty that probably every episode has some reference to a character picking up on a romantic relationship between John and Sherlock, but then when fans called out queerbaiting the creators were like, 'there was never any hint that they might be together, grow up.' Like ahh sir you yourself wrote your own characters picking up on romantic subtext but when your audience does the same suddenly we're stupid? Okay so yeah I'm still mad
Yup, if it was ever possible to gaslight a whole fandom, Mofftiss did it.
Its like white supremacists saying something inflammatory and extremely racist, then calling their detractors "snowflakes" and shit
This was always one of my favorite things about the show. The characters in the universe reacted in a similar way to the events, as the people watching the show. It made it feel more real, that the characters acknowledged how wild and over the top planned out Sherlocks and Moriartys plans were. And that was also what made me believe Johnlock would be canon eventually. The characters noticed the sexual tension, so it clearly was deliberate. I wasn't even into the whole TJLC stuff and the in depth analysis, I just actually thought all the jokes were a way to set up John and Sherlock having feelings for each other but being oblivious/in denial and eventually confronting their feelings. It's a massive dick move to deliberately write it in and then pretend like the fans were over analyzing (which the creators encouraged them to be), not to mention all the queer bating.
SAME. i’ve been getting into sherlock again recently and i realized there are SO many people who make jokes about it or infer it. like i seriously thought i made up johnlock in my head and then i went back and watched and i was like damn it’s actually pushed in the show by the writers.
Yeah, I can't accept the idea that the showrunners aren't to blame. Yes, the conspiracy group got out of hand, but it only existed and got so extreme in the first place because the show and its creators encouraged it.
The fact they not only never solved the reichenbach mystery conclusively, but went *out of their way* to mock people who tried and confirm that they were never going to provide answers, tells me that Moffatt never actually had an answer and just threw a bunch of details at a wall to get more audience engagement during the hiatus.
Either that, or someone actually figured it out correctly and Mofftiss were so angry they refused to admit it.
@@merri-toddwebster2473 No, it was definitely the other thing. Those guys are quintessential mediocre white men
@@merri-toddwebster2473 as someone who has never watched a single episode of Sherlock and doesn't give a shit about doing so, I'm blaming the boomerang.
@@daemonspudguy that's valid
not just that, they encoraged people to obcess over this and then mocked them for doing the exact thing they'd been leading them to do for over a year
When I hear the words "fandom mom" I immediately feel a full body shudder. I have more trust for fandom nsfw artists who instablock anyone below 18 trying to follow their blog than UwU fandom moms who try to drag kids into their cults of personality.
i understand completely! curating your account that best you can to make it so it’s for a space for designated people is a lot more responsible than trying to act like some fandom spokesperson.
As someone in their (early) 20's who still regularly is involved in some smaller tumblr fandoms, don't touch self-proclaimed "fandom moms" with a 40-foot pole.
Honestly, yeah.
Tbh if an nsfw acc instablocks any underaged people that tries to get on their page it kind of makes me respect them more
Yup.
gotta love how the children's show Gravity Falls was more cleverly written and had more subtle mysteries and codes to solve that actually tied into the series' biggest reveals than the big budget BBC show "for adults"
Because the people behind Gravity Falls actually cared about what they put out there unlike with BBC Sherlock. In fact, after the show ended, Alex Hirsch created a worldwide treasure hunt that was connected to the show via puzzles, codes and etc. If you want a whole video on it, check out Blameitonjorge. He made a video documenting the whole event back when it happened.
I *loved* being in the Gravity Falls fandom. I'm pretty sure half the audience were adults but I didn't notice if they were up to no good. The "Stan has a secret brother" theory was buck wild but the payoff was glorious. And the finale was great, imo
Some parts of the fandom is still kicking around but a lot have moved in with the Owl House.
i was just thinking about that- like the vibe from sherlock is like if Hirsch had planted just as many clues but had no idea who the author was actually supposed to be
Gravity Falls had an amazing fandom. I can't remember being in a less toxic fandom if I tried (maybe the warrior cats fandom)
@@Alex-jg2bc as someone who was fairly heavily involved in the warriors fandom (or at least, in the fanfiction/forum roleplay side of it) back in the early 2010s, the warriors fandom could get surprisingly toxic at times
But yeah, watching this really made me realize just how mean-spirited Sherlock got? Then meanwhile, Alex Hirsch actaully encouraged fan theorizing and actaully gave fans some kind of payoff for it. Weird how the kids show handled it better.
Edit: I feel like I should mention that the majority of the drama took place on the youtube/animation side of the warriors fandom and kind of trickled out to the rest of the fandom. My personal experience was actaully fairly positive.
Imagine having to explain to John Locke (the philosopher) that this is what I think of when I hear his name
That’s how you transform him into a Hobbesian philosopher.
This is an underrated comment
@@outofhere2534 I dispise hobbes and even I am close to switching sides
@@dag1407 did Hobbes pounce on you when you came home once and resented it?
O
Imagine thinking the BBC would skip playing the inauguration of a US president by playing a secret gayer episode of a tv show.
Which is more important: The head of state for the most powerful government on Earth, or fandom conspiracies?
(Please consider the perspective of a teenager who has spent _way_ too much time reading arguments about fandom conspiracies.)
They wouldn't but they definitely should. I actually want to watch the gays, I'm tired of politicians.
The level of self-centered delusion that can only be created by obsessing over something that's never going to happen lol
It's broadly in the same camp as Dr Who weirdos who hoped the 2012 Olympics would have David Tennant in full The Doctor regalia be the one to light the torch or whatever.
Fandoms are wacky and adorable
In the case of that particular US president, it was almost a distinction without a difference. What else was the Drumpf presidency, if not a massively deluded cult of personality?
Seriously, a thirty year old former Gleek declaring herself "fandom mom" and trying to police forum posts to control content about character shipping is the single most early 2010's Tumblr shit I've ever heard in my life.
It's crazy right?!
I died when Sarah said "Just be an adult and use your judgment" about 30-year-olds who were harassing other people on Tumblr and IRL at conventions over a ship from a freaking tv show. Clearly there are people out there who have too much time and money on their hands.
I have GOT to read some of her case files.
It really, really is, isn't it?
Also, blessed (cursed?) 666 likes.
I didn't even get to the 1 minute mark in the video and I see this comment: ah yes, typical Tumblr.
Meanwhile Alex Hirsch orchestrated a worldwide treasure hunt for the end of Gravity Falls.
Right? Lol
And there were actual, tiny mysteries every episode for kids to solve.
@@martaszabo465 And when people guessed correctly that the author was Stan's twin brother, they referenced the twist in a subsequent episode, but not in a "the fans are fucking stupid for trying to solve the mystery I encouraged them to solve". Alex Hirsch is great.
I definitely appreciated rewatching it, and that Hirsch didn't change plot points just to stay a step ahead of people who had correctly guessed some of his story points
Anyone here remember when there was an allegedly leaked frame of Old Man McGucket writing the journals, exposing the fandom to a bunch of evidence that he could be the author (Most notably that his cast could have been hiding the injury of a missing sixth finger), and then this was seemingly confirmed at the start of an episode only to then reveal that he was only working for the author? And then it turned at that Alex Hirsh himself had been responsible for the alleged leak as an attempt to throw the fans off the scent of the actual reveal!
What a legend.
Oh god
HAHAHAHA
Ahhhh I remember watching your video on this show when I was in high school! I remember you said something like “a gay writer probably won’t do something as harmful to the community as queerbaiting”
Love your videos dude!
hey thanks for watching!!! sorry about the lsit DMCA stuff
Omg I'm wheezing
The amount of active racism and fetishisation of gay/queer men is such a staple of that era of tumblr. I remember the amount of uncomfortable questions and comments about being 'so cute' for being LGBT. It also really turned me off of the most prominent fandoms at the time.
It was fucking annoying. Goddamn fujoshis.
don't forget the misogyny among those, the amount of female characters being hated on becasue they were in the way of gay ships was scary!
fujoshits are wild my man
Bro this legit still gives me creeps. Being a child at the time who didn’t understand the attraction of queer ships, the whole superwholock situation gave me chronic paranoia against anyone who exclusively ships gay characters.
The icky part of it for me was moreso how they tried to frame it as somehow being social justice to engage in slash fandoms. And that the primarily straight cis people participating were somehow helping the cause of gay representation.
To be clear, I have no issue with slash fics. But like, cmon. Just admit that it’s motivated by wanting cute boy to kiss. There’s nothing wrong with liking cute boy kiss. But recognizing when you are indulging in a kink is a pretty important part of engaging with some kinks responsibly and respectfully. Don’t conflate queer identity and co-opt any sort of social power from the common ground of liking cute boy kiss
"this quickly boiled into the powerpuff girls making public plans to crash some of these creators' panels, namely the toplockers at the later foodissex con"
...i never thought this would be a sentence i'd hear in my life
Sentences to explain to a 15th century monk
@@myettechase could you imagine finding this about 500 years in the future
r/brandnewsentence
One way or another Cassandra Clare always ends up being involved...
Clare is on her way to becoming a fandom Odin.
@@ahniandfriends123 But Odin was cool
@@beeaggro2593 And talented.
I have a theory that all fandom drama is at most only three steps of seperation away from Cassie Clare, somehow.
@@rambletash Probably.
"The Powerpuff Girls were not the first people to ship John and Sherlock together..." - an actual sentence that was just said aloud in 2020
Everyone needs to know that there were Sherlock Holmes fanfiction clubs in the 1800s. Some of the writers must've shipped them.
The anti-Moftiss is Jonny Sims, who said in Magnus Archives Q&As that he kept an eye on a specific subset of fans who were really into theorizing and analysis. If they were picking up the breadcrumbs he was dropping, he knew he was doing his job right. If they weren't at all, then he knew the foreshadowing he was doing wasn't effective and he needed to be more deliberate so the show's big reveals wouldn't just come out of nowhere. (Also the fact that, by the end, most fans had figured out more-or-less where the show was going, because it was so well telegraphed and foreshadowed up until that point. There were still some surprises, but nothing felt out of place or like a cop-out because Jonny actually wanted us to engage with the mystery.)
And also Alex Hirsch (created Gravity Falls and really did make a secret fake leak to lead the fans off a trail for a while).
yes!! tma is the most involved I've ever been in a fandom, and I really remember that there were SO MANY theories all with very reasonable connections to characters' actions and dialogue lines. I didn't know what exactly would happen in the finale but I had a general idea and it felt cool to figure out what actually happened!
Not to mention a well set up, canonical, and affectionate romantic relationship between the canon biromantic asexual protagonist and another man, as well as a WLW relationship between two supporting characters, and several gay, trans, and nonbinary characters who pop up over the course of the show. It's not tacked on, it's not an afterthought or a joke or subtext, it's just... Queer people existing
Say what you will about the ending of TMA, it was very much well planned and well thought out
MAGNUS ARCHIVES FAM
There's something funny about the show creators making fun of the fans who were actually writing fanfiction that made more sense than their show.
Jealousy. MArtin Freeman reads the fanfic and appreciates the fan art- even the explicit ones. He admits that a lot of it is intelligent and well thought out. So seeing Moftiss (well Moffat, mostly) get so pissy about it is fucking weird.
@@asaoded2384 aw, that's real nice! I'm glad he appreciates it at least.
@@asaoded2384 omg, really? I appreciate Martin uwu
It's even funnier considering the show in itself was basically a fanfic
Moffat is 100% completely overrated as a writer and show runner lol. He completely ruined Dr. Who as well.
“The Powerpuff Girls are manipulating us” is not a sentence I expected to hear tonight
Mojo Jojo was trying to save us.
HIM was right smh
Buttercup: Girlboss
Bubbles: Gaslight
Blossom: Gatekeep
And I thought the reboot was bad.
There were a lot of good sentences in this video.
I think the most offensive part of this entire thing is that people think john watson could top. Mary pegged him daily
"But how do they have kids when his wife exclusively gives him the strap?" -An ancient tumblr post about Beto O'Rourke but tbh also about John Watson
@@eikawithac BETO- ASDHJKSJFSLKJ LOOOOOOOOOL LMFAO I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE BUT BETO DOES SEEM LIKE A BOTTOM X'D
Mary pegs them both dvfdddd
Sknmajfna this is my favourite comment
this SENT me
Turns out, the "one key detail" fans were missing about the death faking mystery, was that the writers didn't give a shit
I'm just replying so you can see how much likes you got
@@afellowpotato potato
“Your honor, my client believes that Sherlock Holmes is a bottom, which proves that he is innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt.”
This really sounds like something Saul Goodman would say lmao
But sir, your client is accused of running a bus into a group of elderly people
@@Summertimeislife i’m serving as the entire jury of this case and i rule him innocent
@@Summertimeislife they were TopLocks, your honour
@@stankyratman5685 Its true I was the gavel
"The Powerpuff girls were manipulating us" was not a sentence I thought I'd hear today, but here we are.
It's odd how people were so angry at Elementary, especially when the creators of Elementary were adamant Holmes and Watson would never have a romance. What we got was a really wonderful friendship between a man and a woman that was loving and supportive. Not to mention, there were SO MANY gay and bisexual characters portrayed in Elementary in a very positive light. Mrs. Hudson, although demoted to a guest character, was played by a trans woman (THE Candis Cayne).
elementary was a good show and even in 2013 era fandom time i just couldn't get why sherlock fans hated it lol. the success or failure of elementary would have no bearing on bbc sherlock anyways. why couldnt both co-exist? why couldn't it be like the 'same hat' meme? i was always kinda sad the elementary fandom was never as big or involved as bbc sherlocks. where is my joan fanart yall?? elementry was fresh and funny and had lucy goddamn liu, not to mention it had, you know, actual crimes and mysteries to solve. The point when i fell off the show was ****spoilers i guess?**** when joan slept with sherlock's brother. it just felt so completely out of character for her, i kept thinking it was some kind of joke. but that was a while ago now, i really should go and finish the show considering how much i liked it to begin with.
Also, Elementary's Moriarty
@@peeperooni-and-cheeza as a former sherlock fan. its because holmes is into women openly. i wish i was joking
@@peeperooni-and-cheeza You fell off the show in s2? That's pretty sad, considering it has like what, 7 seasons? I think s4 is fantastic
... honestly, I half-shipped them. Like, I wanted them to be in a relationship. I didn’t care if it was romantic or platonic. I just wanted them together.
Blossom is the epitome of “Look at my lawyer dog I’m going to jail.”
Think you mean dawg, not dog lol
@@ettaetta439Lawyer Dog: superhero.
Listen, the elephant conspiracy with the answer being that the designer just really liked elephants is absolutely hilarious.
Occam's razor
Reminds me of when Hal Prince asked Andrew Lloyd Webber about what the deeper meaning behind the Broadway show Cats was and Andrew replied: “Hal...It’s about cats...”
What the elephant were supposed to mean in the TJLC, Anyway ? That Sherlock and Watson really loved peanuts ?
@@vfvfq1279 no, it supposedly meant that Sherlock and John being attracted to each other was an obvious elephant in the room
@birds man it was a joke
I know TLDW stands for Too Long Didn't Watch but everytime I see it my stupid little brain goes "Too Long Didn't Wread" rip
Don’t worry you’re not alone 😂
Honestly same
TLDW: The Lohn Dock Wonspiracy
Now I’m just thinking of those owo texts. Sowwy mistah pwesident I didn’t wead, it was two wong! OwO (why did I do this)
@@jamesbriggs4165 Two Long Didnt Wead UwU
I'm, like, 92% convinced this video causes Destiel
Sarah doesn’t know the power she wields
Yeah she jinxed it
How does it feel to be a prophet?
It's a butterfly effect, I don't quite know how to connect the dots but I just know it.
But only in Spanish
Still thinking about the one time I brought up queerbaiting in a conversation with my sister, only to realize that she had absolutely no idea what it was, and so I said "you watched Sherlock right?" and immediately she said "Oh I get it" and the conversation ended
To be clear, I was fully intending on using Sherlock as a case study, partially because of how infamous it is, and partially because she's actually watched the show and would know what I'm talking about. I'm still cackling at the fact that the mere mention of the show's name was enough for her to wrap her head around the concept in the space of a couple seconds
literally made my day
oh my god 😭😭😭 that's hilarious
_Elementary_ being criticized by _Sherlock_ fans for its supposed homophobia because it cast a woman (Lucy Liu) as Watson was certainly-something.
Not to mention that Joan and Sherlock in _Elementary_ have no romantic chemistry whatsoever-the whole ‘sober companion’ thing was introduced precisely so that they could live together without heteronormative viewers assuming they had to be a couple.
There was also a lowkey racist thing going on the reactions to the character...
@@maffieduran lowkey? they literally called her a dog 😑
These comments about Elementary made me not want to watch it for a long time. Then I watched it and, ignoring the fact that Sherlock Holmes is a buff cishet (I'm sorry, I just needed to joke about it lmao), it is a surprisingly good portrayal of the characters and it has less plotholes than BBC Sherlock. Not only that but it seems wayyy less offensive, so even though I do not like some writing choices - such as what they did to Irene Adler - I like it a lot.
@@herlocksholmes-uv5qwwhat did they do with Irene Adler? cant be worse then what the BBC one did. also, Sherlock is definitely buff, he was an expert wrestler
All of the stars looked like they were gonna align but then you realize you’ve been looking at it wrong and the constellation forms into a hand flipping you off
skdksdskdsk this is the best description. like it's kinda funny but also it kinda sucks, and mostly you're just confused??
This is the best comment I’ve ever read
I had the same, but with the Reichenbach mystery. Like mentioned in the video, I was disappointed as well.
Or if you don't have the excitement to convince you that it will totally be fine no really, it's like excitedly watching a Skywriter at work when you realise they are just spelling out a slur in the sky and have to watch it to conclusion out of sheer shock that they're doing it.
Lmao dude I'm at work trying to be secretive, don't make me laugh.
Avid Elementary fan here. How bizarre their hatred for Liu given that her Watson never has any romantic sub-plots with Sherlock. Their really just friends and coworkers who respect each other and can relate to each other on a different level.
The show drops a few semi-romantic moments between the two, but never an actual relationship
@@zinkheroofyoutube8004 I see it as Sherlock has never been closer to anyone (on-screen) than Joan so any words of affection or hugs he initiated would be romantic to any other pairing of a straight woman and man, friends or more. Joan constantly tells people they're not sleeping together in season one...almost as frequently as John says he's not gay lol. They always gave platonic life partners TO ME
I'm not a fan of the show but i think I've read somewhere that the director of the show really wanted to make Sherlock explicitly queer in elementary but wasn't allowed to so
The sheer, unadulterated *nerve* of Steven Moffatt making fun of fans analysing unexplained clothing changes to try and catch his foreshadowing - given that he literally did *EXACTLY* that in Doctor Who (the Doctor's jacket changes, as shown by his sleeve, in one of his episodes with the weeping angels, and it allowed fans to deduce correctly what was going on before it was revealed much later).
Honestly one of the most pigheaded, ungrateful, mind-bogglingly arrogant attitudes I've seen from any creator in the modern day. He's not even that good at plotting or writing. He uses three or four words to death ('clever', 'brilliant', and the dreaded 'sexy'), he's nowhere near as imaginative as Russell T Davies, and his endings suck.
AND he keeps insisting on trying to tell me how awesome The Doctor or Sherlock or whoever is, every other bloody story ends with a 'don't you know who I am???' monologue and it's BORING. Boo to you, Moffatt. Boo to you.
I don't know what that means about MGatts either, which is the bummer for me. I was a big, big fan from his TLOG days, which had such a cult following I would have expected him to appreciate his fans - maybe not though. Boo.
There is something almost funny about how he was surprised fans of a DETECTIVE SHOW wanted to solve a mystery by looking at clues. Like, dude, the whole fun of the novels was trying to figure out the mystery before the reveal,
He literally egged on people too! Asked them to speculate and look into the show carefully. He prided himself on putting easter eggs and little clues in the background and having it all tie in to one huge important mystery. Also the blatant disrespect to the queer audience that he built. He made a lesbian straight for sherlock obviously queerbaited the hell out of a relationship that was already know to be more than just friends. Also not to mention that he turned doctor who so weird and confusing that I stopped watch because I couldn't follow his convoluted plot lines.
Oh god, not the "don't you know who I am???" monologue, that takes me right back to being a Whovian in the Moffat era...thank god I was more into the classic series so I didn't get into AS much Moffat discourse. I never really got into Sherlock either. I remember I watched the 1st season.
Moffatt sounds like a fucking tool, judging by all this.
I've always wondered whether Gatiss maybe cared more about being in the show than writing it. He struck me as a real Sherlock Holmes nerd, and he ended up casting himself as Mycroft, who has always been referred to as the smarter Holmes brother (Don't get me wrong, I thought he played Mycroft really well, but it ironically looks like the move of a fanfiction writer putting themselves in the story.) And when the show wasn't being Moffat-y, it was constantly throwing out references to the original books, a lot of the time for no purpose other than to go, "Look, an Arthur Conan Doyle reference!"
Then again, being an OG Sherlock Holmes fanboy could also have soured him on the influx of new fans being teenage girls who had crushes on Cumberbatch (Not like we haven't seen *that* reaction in fan communities before.)
i can't believe sarah manifested the homophobic destiel confession
edit: she also manifested the finale
Ugh her power
She's grown too powerful
sarah z? more like clairvoyant z
*laughs in spanish*
_google_
Apparently this is a Supernatural thing? If only someone recently released a video about the Supernatural finale that could explain what was going on.
"The Powerpuff Girls weren't the first people to theorize that John and Sherlock would be endgame" is such a beautiful sentence
Or cursed, depending on how you look at it
@@Shadowplay4Cats Curses can be beautiful.
@@Shadowplay4Cats It's "blursed".
As someone who works at a law firm, I just realized that a 30 year old lawyer is probably just an associate. Not a partner. A baby attorney fresh out of law school who stays late to do the senior lawyers’ bidding on cases. Her behavior suddenly makes a lot more sense. (I’ve watched this video numerous times, and as I near 30 myself, I can totally see someone my age getting up to the shit that Blossom did.)
Yeah, there’s a special kind of immaturity you only get by spending your twenties going straight from college to grad school without any break for life experience in between.
She sounds like she thought Ally McBeal was a documentary series.
"Blossom is an actual lawyer, she's not stupid."
Lawyers can be really dumb, especially when they are blinded by their egos.
Talk to any professor at a law school to instantly shatter the belief that all lawyers are smart and good people.
@@martaszabo465 I doubt anyone ever believed lawyers are good people, tho.
Lawyers are just people. And some people are stupid. There for, some lawyers are stupid.
College degree =\= Intelligence.
High int doesn't correlate to high wis
@@joshkaid Especially law school, to which a lot of rich people go just to buy a degree. Close second to "business school".
as a person who was DEEP in the sherlock fandom at its prime, i can honestly say that elementary was the superior modern sherlock adaptation. they handled how sherlock dealt with complex emotions and addiction and his relationships so much more maturely than bbc sherlock, and ACTUALLY portrayed how a deep and significant platonic friendship between holmes and watson could look like without ever baiting us with romance between them
I mean, elementary is more a procedural crime drama like CSI, which gets kinda boring after a few seasons. So I wouldn't say either are the best modern sherlock adaptation. But after reading and watching videos as part of the bbc sherlock fandom i was kinda anti elementary and thought every one who said it was the better adaption was a conan doyle purist and probably homophobic :D So yeah, i was pretty surprised how cool it is. I like the sick boy/mr knightly actor and lucy liu is amazing. And I shouldn't say that so far down in a rant, but GENDERSWAPPED WATSON and NO ROMANTIC ENTANGELEMENT are just - chefs kiss. You'd think they'd genderswap her for easy het relationship drama, but they didn't. I do think thats actually the best aspect, how they subverted my expectation that romance was gonna happen eventually but they just had the best friendship.
American remakes of popular British shows were pretty common at the time (Being Human, Life on Mars,) and they had all been hollow cash-ins that basically stripped away what had made the show popular in the first place and replaced it with something more typical to American TV. Elementary was a show that actually benefited from that, because the stuff that made Sherlock popular was the very stuff that eventually made it implode on itself and outed the series as not being nearly as clever as it had pretended.
you're so right, i feel like people defend sherlock bbc so frickin much like please go watch the whole show. except for a few good episodes the whole thing kinda....flopped crazy plot twists everywhere for no damn reason and yeah elementary was definitely better
I always preferred it. It was much better than the BBC one.
Elementary is excellent and you should say it. The friendship between Sherlock and Joan is absolutely amazing. I'm so happy they didn't go down the romance route.
Sarah three videos ago: "I swear this isn't a tumblr history channel"
Sarah now; for the past three videos:
my immortal ain't tumblr!! that's livejournal babeyyyyyyy
@@SarahZ tangentially related: I would love to see a deep dive in the history and popularity of "Twist and Shout"/Destiel in general. I know you did a video about queerbaiting, but I'm interested in more of the details about that ship and massive fanfiction specifically (it even has a Goodreads page) (and I have read all of it, yes)
@@SarahZ frankly tumblr history in itself is. Interesting especially for having to live through it and have it explain it.
I’m loving tumblr history rn
@@SarahZ nevertheless here for it
I am creeped out by adults fighting with literal children over shipping characters in a fandom. How tf did Blossom get a law degree with such a childish and unprofessional personality?
If it makes you feel better, she’s probably usually unemployed and not actually working on cases; and/or is just a secretary or something at a law firm. Actual practicing attorneys don’t have that much free time to yell about fandom discourse online.
Have you met a lawyer? That was the most believable thing about it for me
Diploma mill, probably
Moffat's got an obsession with semi-villainous imposing women who make special exceptions for the male lead, and who are like superficially "strong" despite being smothered in gender roles in all the dialogue and always getting outplayed by the male lead
Remember when River Song who was greatly implied to be this cool action hero woman (and was later characterized as such) was given all of the books ever written to live out her life in and chose to be a boring ass house wife?
I'm pretty sure he's actually had an interview where he says that he thinks all women deep down actually want to be moms. He's such a pig
@@Zorae42 i knew the moment i clicked 'view reply' that i was gonna see River's name lmao
she was such a beautifully badass character, Moffat's just a misogynist and doesn't know how to write women in stories without his shitty views on women. and people wonder why every fandom hates him.
It's always kinda awkward when you can figure out a creator's kink.
okay he definitely was an ass in all that you guys are talking about but what about bill? idk if y’all have seen season 10 but she seemed like a good lesbian character written by moffat
@@karen-sm4gw [SPOILERS]
he still ended up killing Bill off at the end of the one season she was on.
she was a great character imo, but he still contributed to the hundreds of other lazy writers out there who just kill off their LGBT+ characters when they don’t know what else to do with them.
"Blossom, an attornery and former Glee fan" so the true villain reveals herself in the most unsubtle of ways.
The thing that kills me about this is I’m an attorney and former Glee fan, and your take could not be more correct 😂 (I am not blossom, nor do I have the misfortune of knowing her)
The main thing I've learned in all these fandom drama post-mortems is that it's always a rogue 30-something fan dedicating their whole ass life to being toxic online, not teenagers being shitty.
They also always seem to be someone with a good job and even a family, i.e. someone who has real responsibilities and has absolutely no business putting so much effort into gaining internet clout.
There’s athenadark in the teen wolf fandom
@@PassTheMarmalade1957 I'd say it's the opposite. The fact that they're wealthy is a big reason why they can dedicate so much time and mental capacity to insignificant things.
You think someone worried about if they'll meet rent this month has time to be upset about meaningless shit like a fictional non-canonical couple?
its always struck me as weird, and ik this sounds mean but really pathetic
i feel like it's because they're older that they manage to leave a huge impact, like a teen would lose interest or not have the ambition or just make some mistake so they fade into obscurity before causing this level of disaster. or they straight up back out when the pressure mounts/their family catches on an pulls the plug. but a 30yr old has more confidence, more understanding of how to manipulate a crowd, something like that. i'm sure there's exceptions though, if this is even true in the first place.
1:12:00 The "You brutes!" is not random. That's how one woman notoriously opened her letter to Arthur Conan Doyle when he killed Sherlock. Nice touch.
I'm just replying so you can see how much likes you got
@@afellowpotato*many
I'm married to an asexual person
So the concept that Sherlock being Ace would make Johnlock impossible is sorta hilarious to me.
Not all ace people want to be in romantic relationships but it's not unheard of.
Based on the fact that these people went on crusades against those who wanted Sherlock to be a top instead of a bottom, you can safely assume that the sex part was all they really were interested in.
@@ScavengerKing has it right. For people like blossom (het adult women) it was all about fetishising gay men in highly sexual “dirty sin boykissing” ways
Am ace, can confirm :)
I’m ace and I’m Constantly Pining For A Relationship lmao
@@ScavengerKing I could write a whole thing on versatility and the idea that strict adherence to the dichotomy is just reinforcing gender roles but that's too much effort for this
As a former Sherlock fan who gave up after the horrendous third season, I got all the validation I needed from following along Gravity Falls. It had all the same pieces Sherlock claimed to have with small inconsistencies that seemed to have deeper meaning, leaked fake screenshots created by Alex Hirsch himself and a real life treasure hunt across the globe. The only difference was that it actually delivered in every way it promised it would.
Sherlock never promised any of that, you were mad at the show for not delivering something no one in the production intended on doing.
@@joseaguilar3323 no but it sometimes seemed like that was what they were trying to do
@@joseaguilar3323 oh they openly teased and hinted at doing shit like this- that mysteries can be solved by the audience and then they made them feel dumb for doing what they said.
@@slamacat9866 "They openly teased and hinted at doing shit like this" Can you tell me how? Because as someone who enjoyed the first three seasons and was (and is) heavily involved in the Sherlock Holmes fandom (as in the books and other adaptations) I saw none of that. It always seemed like an expectation coming exclusively from Tumblr.
@@joseaguilar3323 sorry for the late reply. I'll start off easy- they had a background social media based arg going on (no not the season 5 rumour) which had offical accounts for sherlock and john and character who was meant to be stalking them basically, this story went no where despite having a lot of info put into iy. Then there are also a lot of interviews with moftiss and other crew members saying that people CAN solve these mysteries themselves (y'know before they made fun of them for doing just that) and they of course kept saying stuff like "there are no coincedences" in regards to legit plot holes. It should also be mentioned that most of the people who were making theories and such were teenagers who had respect for this show- they fully believed what was being said and felt they were doing what was expected and havkng fun with it
They also took a character pretty widely accepted to be Autistic, amped up his Autistic traits a ton, had John _literally use the word Aspergers in relation to Sherlock_ at some point, then stuck with the "High Functioning Sociopath" narrative and got super defensive in interviews when the Autistic-coding was pointed out. Almost like it's a pattern with these people.....
(Wanna know who else does this? The writers of the Big Bang Theory. Apparently Sheldon Cooper is not Autistic. Because if he was, they'd have to confront how horrible and mean-spirited the jokes about him are.)
The high functioning sociopath things pains me so much, like Moffat look at canon Holmes. Do you see his special interests, his "i want to be alone", his *STIMMING WHEN HE GETS EXCITED*? You seeing that Moffat?
Sociopaths are different; they are usually trauma-made and- and they don't feel as much regret Sherlock Holmes shows to feel- they even end to manipulate more and YES Holmes manipulates people in canon as well - agatha from charles augustus milverton per say.. - but doesn't have any other screaming symptom of sociopathy.
It annoys me
This could be word for word replaced with Mofftis opening their Dracula with the sentence "did you have sex with Dracula" and then sneering in interviews that Dracula is 'just bihomicidal'. They literally do not change, ever. When oh when will the BBC put these men in the bin
Sheldon Cooper is probably one of the most blatantly offensive stereotypes I've seen on modern TV that everyone seems to just be okay with.
@@herlocksholmes-uv5qw I think they at least move it slightly more towards the sociopath direction by revealing / hinting it was trauma made.
Lol I had a creative writing teacher give me this advice once. 'Write about this identity but don't explicitely say the character is that thing, then you don't have to take responsibility if you do a shitty job (a.k.a perpetuate harmful stereotypes)!'. Glad I didn't take it.
my favorite part of this is that everyone involved in this was in full improv mode. when someone proposed one nutty theory nobody would ever say “no that’s nuts” they would always say “yes! and..”
TJLC was just a mad libs game gone horribly wrong.
As a fnaf fan I can confirm this
@@afellowpotato potato
All "Yes and ho!" and no "You idiot, that's fucking mental!".
@@ciphergacha9100potato
Plot twist: this is a coded message funded by Mofftis that reveals the location of the secret episode making Johnlock canon. Watch for the light/white dot appearing above her right shoulder. Put together the words said corresponding with the dots, run through google translate three times, arrange according to memory palace logic, and the url will be revealed to you, true TJLC believers.
OMG TYSM I JUST WATCHED THE REAL FINALE OMG YOU WERE RIGHT, I KNEW MOFFIT WROTE THIS VIDEO!! GENIUS!!!
Sara Z is such a well written character it will be sad to see her retire after fulfilling her final duty XD
lmaooo
@@aazhie ikr
Pffft. XD
fun fact, my mother, who is almost 60, was and is one of the more well-known Sherlock fanartists. She has done ship art of Johnlock, and at one point shipped them herself, though she was never part of TJLC, to my knowledge. She's also one of like 8 people who still go to Sherlock conventions, and meets up with a group of Sherlock fans every month (or, she did back when that was still a thing).
Oh hell yes
That's pretty cool. Can I find her art page or something? I'm always interested in finding new artists.
Aww that's so sweet
@@cyncynshop bluebellofbakerstreet on tumblr
@@CountessJid Oh! I know her! Like, not personally, but I've seen her art!
The only worthy successor to “Sherlock is Terrible, and Here’s Why”
I watched that 2 hour video and I'm watching this 1,5 hour video and I've never watched BBC Sherlock but I live for the drama surrounding it
ruclips.net/video/LkoGBOs5ecM/видео.html Fake-Feminism, Fake-Intellegence and Fake-Characterization. Here's a video that lists it all.
This show was extremly bad and has nothing smart about it.
It depowers woman (and men too) as Irene Adler is
an infinitely inferior version of her book-self.
Among other problems.
@@slevinchannel7589 I appreciate you spreading the video, but why under this comment? I’m talking about it so I’ve clearly already seen it, plus the video above even links “Sherlock Is Terrible” in one of the info tabs of the video
@@ChestersonJack To spread the link, just for that.
@@ChestersonJack What about your original comment though.
Did you meant the link i meant or a whole other video?
What I find most baffling about this whole affair is Blossom's angry reaction to the Roland Barthes/Death of the Author analysis of tjlc; its not trying to "kill the fun" of the ship, its just observing the nature of tjlc running opposed to Death of the Author theory, and despite being bloated with overwritten run-on sentences, the observations do technically make sense. Then Blossom tries to claim that her LAW degree is comparable to that poster's MEDIA degree, and thinks that because she's a lawyer, she can spot errors in a media essay? What? OP wasn't even decrying tjlc as much as voicing an academic interest in the phenomenon.
I'm just replying so you can see how much likes you got
@@afellowpotato potato
"Blossom is a lawyer. She's not stupid."
As a former attorney law librarian allow me to say - *BOLD* assertion. Truly bold.
Most lawyers aren't stupid. Some lawyers raise questions as to how they passed the LSAT let alone the Bar.
In my experience, people using their profession or studies as proof of their intelligence (especially when they throw it into completely unrelated conversations) is a big red flag to take everything they say with a heap or two of salt. I don't know why people do it so often, other than to impress people with the letters they have after their name - I've met doctors that I wouldn't trust to calculate a tip
@Harlequin Doe I wholly agree. I think the more morally questionable side of scientific curiosity is a different thing entirely however. I can imagine there are areas with important research to be done; where perception of that research can either prevent or discredit it, once enough people complain. Sadly some research that shouldn't have been done (don't need to give examples) has had a massive benefit on humanity as a whole.
Other than that, its ridiculous when people think their education makes them knowledgable in a "less complicated" field. Especially when they disregards experts in that field. I don't care what someone knows about physics, doesn't mean they're an authority in political discussion for anything unrelated to their field. Some kind of generalised Dunning-Kruger effect I guess
My dad got disbarred for forging signatures on legal documents. The fact that he ever became a lawyer in the first place is astounding
Just adding medical doctors to the list of "dont assume theyre not stupid" pile - quite a few have practically attempted to murder people through being bullheaded, outright stubborn, or just plain stupid.
@@Xeronoia my first Stepcousin once removed’s pregnancy doctor (not sure the word) might as well have been named Fuckup McDumbass. His poor judgement is the reason why my stepcousin (her son) is in a wheelchair and will never have a job/family and will live at home-because his umbilical cord got caught around his neck. Fortunately my First Stepcousin once removed and her husband were (are) lawyers and were able to sue and get a shit ton of money
i don’t usually think “saying benedict cumberbatchs name weird” jokes are funny but something about the casual way sarah delivers those lines just completely throw me off and makes me lose it
the way it’s some gibberish “and Martin Freeman”
wait what....
i have legitimately not noticed she said gibberish
Ikr, that happened once with my father saying something like "bandersnatch cucumber" in a casual sentence and I was just so thrown off guard. Like how do you know that meme lmao
“Heterossexuality and Ice Powers” Wow, Elsa is finally gonna tell her coming out story
Thematic username
In regards to the, "Mark Gattis must secretly be straight otherwise he wouldn't have queerbaited the audience" idea. Ursula K LeGuin spoke in interviews about how despite creating the Earthsea books to be more inclusive and diverse than the fantasy being published at the time, and today, the early books had her female characters in either background or stereotypical roles and she didn't give it much thought until later in the series. It's not cause she was secretly misogynist, just that the women in the fantasy works that inspired her were written that way so she ended up replicating it in her own work without thinking.
I'd guess that it's a similar thing with Gattis. I mean, no homo jokes or baiting were pretty common in a lot of media both British and American, so he might have just included them or gave the go ahead to Moffat to include them without realizing what he was doing. Given how flimsy the storytelling of the show was from the get go, wouldn't surprise me.
The Earthsea books are so good though! I love them so much! And the second book has a female main character who's written so well. Tenar's struggle makes the second book my favorite out of the whole series (Of the first four anyway, I haven't gotten to the last two yet)
I'd guess Gattis doesn't really care and is perfectly fine with queerbaiting if it gets a viewerbase for his series. he's not a queer media pioneer, he's a rich man who happens to be gay.
@@zakhawker344 Is there anything wrong with that? Does he have to be a queer media pioneer?
@@luckystriker842 i dont think thats the argument, i think thats just the explanation. someone can be gay and participate in making media that queerbaits.
leguin actually reflected on her own work though, and made an effort to course correct down the line. gattis seems...less introspective, more combative.
The horrible truth about Mofftis is they disrespected their fans, disrespected the mystery genre by MOCKING their fans for trying to solve the mystery that yes “they made us care about” - this season made me think “oh ok cool they don’t give a shit about us”
As cringy as I found the fandom, and it was so cringy, it was absolutely assholish from the creators to be so disdainful of their fans. And they didn't have the excuse of being young teens.
I definitely stopped watching the show completely when I watched the first episode after Sherlock escapes death and they both refuse to explain how he did it and mock people for trying to figure it out. That's the moment that I looked back at the rest of the show and realized how contrived it was.
@Najawin Are you seriously claiming that a Sherlock Holmes story can be anything BUT a mystery story? How disgustingly insulting to an English institution.
I was a fan back when I was 15 so the scenes where the show runners outright mocked the fans just went over my head completely, like I thought the Moriarty/Sherlock kiss was fanservice for example. It only dawned on me that it was mockery all along after I stopped being a fan
@Najawin Erasing Sherlock is a story that takes place around Holms. It isn't a Sherlock Holmes story and the same goes for the Book of the Enemy. Referencing terrible Doctor Who media doesn't buttress your claims to speak with any authority on literature or authorship. Also what amounts to fanfiction of Holmes still involves a mystery because.... that's what a Holmes story is. A mystery.
it's fitting that the scariest topic you've covered was uploaded on halloween
Terrifying really. And so fitting. This gave me chills
Look at the bitterness
@@TheFFilipp huh?
I am not sure if it is her scariest topic so far. I only knew about the Onceler debacle for about two seconds and from the outside. Finding about the whole "oncest" have scarred me for life...
But legitimately though, I do really really wish there was more male/male gay representation in shows of any kind, especially mystery/adventure ones. If anyone knows like any examples at all of this (not just token gay dudes, I mean relationships) please please tell me. As a gay dude I feel unrepresented
It's funny that they were offended that Elementary was a modern, american interpretation of S.Holmes when House M.D. had JUST been a thing.
watching House as of reading this. You are coming with a very valid point. I also love how they don't even try to hide it, example being Dr. Watson. Just makes the show that little bit better
Yes but House MD had no fragile connection to Brandywine Cummerbund so they of course they ignored it. IMHO at the true heart of this hysteria there wasn't any kind of attachment to the IP or even the character of Sherlock Holmes, it was just extreme concentrated thirst for Bandersnatch Cabbagecorp. It was never about the characters, it was about them being hyper defensive of a thing that they could thirst over him in, and hating anything that they saw as a rival or inferior version of it.
I watched House from childhood through to when it ended.
Then I eventually picked up Sherlock in 2013. I spent most of my teen years in the Sherlock fandom (was not a shipper though, I tried to avoid most drama).
After all that, I can now safely say that House is the superior adaptation... even though it technically isn't an adaptation... but technically is?
I can still enjoy House, I cannot say the same about Sherlock.
ohhhh so it was ✨racism✨ and ✨misogyny✨
I NEVER REALIZED OH MY GOD
I wish I had had this video to explain everything to me when my daughter was 12 and watching BBC live streams night and day, hoping to be there when they suddenly dropped the real final gay episode of Sherlock. It was literally weeks before she eased off of that fixed belief, and I could not wrap my brain around what was happening. This helps retroactively at least.
I'm just replying so you can see how much likes you got
@@afellowpotatopotato
@@Ringothetankengine-qy1vl potato
I spaced out for 1 second and suddenly she was comparing the JFK assassination to the Sherlock finale
fun fact, sherlock fandom got into beef with the transformers fandom after the finale happened. see, sherlock fans started shortening "the final problem" into "tfp". this is all well and good... except that a very, VERY popular transformers series that began airing in 2010 and had ended in 2013 was named transformers prime... this included the shortened tag "tfp". transformers fans were a little befudded when the still VERY active tag for the transformers prime show began getting a deluge of sherlock related imagery, rants, the works. they asked for sherlock fans to, maybe, um, get another tag name please? and instead the sherlock fans said no and told the transformers fandom to stop using the "tfp" tag they'd been using for the past 7 years. someone apparently even posted an eviction notice for the transformers fans. what resulted was apparently a mass-spamming of transformers fanworks, to spite the sherlock fans using the tag aggressively.
ASHSKSJAJ I REMEMBER THIS
Autobots, transform and roll out! We have some Johnlock shippers to piss off.
I got a lot of hate for that because I was part of the transformers fandom at the time. I had to leave Tumblr and never really came back. Best thing that ever happened since that is such an absolute hell site
It's so funny
Who new there was such a thing as Tumblr Tag Colonialism
Living Tumblr through Sarah's experience is something else.
How are you not only everywhere, BUT ALWAYS ONE OF THE FIRST
@@bolloggfisch1100 I am a youtube junkie :-)
She is the only person that had a VERY similar experience to me, that's literally the main reason I love her
@Dylan Rodrigues More of a crossover between military history and Tumblr drama than you might think
@@AtunSheiFilms oh shit oh fuk
Imagine spending months or years writing a book, it gets published, it gets picked up for a BBC adaptation, and then people are just complaining that it's not a secret good Sherlock episode.
the word "boykissing" made me break out into full body shudders
Same
Oh buddy you don't even know. I recently decided to get into an older show, then decided "haha I will now consume some fanworks :)" and these MFs were still using "Yaoi" and "BL" and "BoyLove" in the year of our Lord 2021.
@@magpie8351 thats because BL is just a japanese term for gay content whats wrong with it?
It sounds like the exact thing youd expect from a cishet woman who fetishises gay men- like an entire stereotype summed up in one word
@@truebornseeker9767 they have been doing that since the popular height of late 2000s and beginning of 2010s.
“Sherlock fans migrated to It‘s Always Sunny in Philadelphia.”
My jaw dropped. I had no idea that was a thing.
I mean, I suppose it makes a kind of sense? If you’re burned out on a dumb show that pretends to be smart, move on to a smart show that pretends to be dumb, I guess.
lmao thank you i couldn’t make sense of it in my brain but you summed it up perfectly
Also, there's sort of a similar dynamic with MacDennis where there's enough There in the show to make you think they'd at least hook up. I mean, "Mac and Dennis Move to the Suburbs" is essentially them trying their best to make a relationship work (and failing miserably).
This was around the time Mac came out. TJLC people wanted a new endgame to believe in and migrated to believing Mac and Dennis were going to get together at the end of season 12. The MacDennis Conspiracy.
@@SingleMadoka Oh my god.
I get that we want gays and we want them now, I get that Dennis is hinted-bi-or-at-least-happy-if-it-gives-him-attention, I get shipping toxic pairings (I'm not even a Hannigram fan, I shipped Gideon/Chilton, babeeeyyy), but unless Dennis gets therapy and meds, the only way for Mac to have a happy ending is if Charlie discovers he's at least a one on the Kinsey scale
@@misterbadguy7325 While Mac is obviously in love with Dennis I cannot imagine a worse fate for him (or anyone) than being in a romantic relationship with Dennis Reynolds.
"There is ONE detail YOU MISSED according to Steven Moffat"
It's the fact that he hates you
god irene was such a good book character, smarter than sherlock. not one single adaptation gives her a proper character
Probably because of the "Smarter than Sherlock" thing.
Wishbone did
She also had a deeply meaningful and respectful but 100% platonic relationship with Sherlock and i wish people realised that was a thing that can happen
@@Gossamerstrands truly the superior adaptation
what about "the adventures of Sherlock Holmes" (1984) with Jeremy Brett? I think that Irene had really proper character in this.
There WAS a secret fourth episode at one point, but the hard drive holding it was hit by a boomerang. So without budget to re-do it, they dumped it.
A boomerang did it?!?
IT WAS A FUCKING BOOMERANG
Is this a joke
@@hotsauceenjoyer2000 Hbomber Sherlock review joke.
The boomerang did the fucking world a service that day
As someone working in fandom studies, seeing Johnlock as literally an intentionally cultivated thing through the BBC 'Fanagement' document is eerie. Basically, the action of the showrunners was not 'oopsie doopsie, we didn't know we were affecting our fans like this,' it's LITERALLY part of an internal BBC document about 'how to exploit fans' and includes information like 'make the show gifable.'
@@ealusaid the document also explains how using fanwork (like fan compositions of Dr Who music) can 'induce feelings of ownership!'
@@TalenLee for real?
@@bean8672 Yep. Its literally where the term 'fanagement' was coined, as a response to the 70s idea of 'fantagonism'
Fandom studies? Is it a branch of sociology? Anthropology? More history based?
@@gmc5618 it's connected to media studies (at least, that's how I'm connected to it)
I think it’s pretty disgusting how almost an entire all male team (writers, actors, etc - but especially moffat) belittled teenage girls for liking something in their own way. Like imagine being a 40 something man and bullying a 15 year old.
KJO Really compelling argument against a legitimate point. Go on.
.
"Imagine being a 40 something man and bullying a 15 year old" could literally be a resume of some parts of the internet. And that's sad.
By the way these teenage girls are smarter that this overhyped falsely intellectual twat ruining franchise after franchise.
@@kjo1849 Imagine being pissed at someone for saying that an adult bullying a teenager isn’t acceptable. Grow up snowflake.
Listening to the acephobia part of the video while drawing a pride themed illustration of Jonathan Sims, canonically ace protagonist of The Magnus Archives, gives of the same feeling as the janitor that keeps mopping the floor during a fight scene in an action movie.
This is the second TMA comment I’ve seen and how I wish I could just tell every young queer kid during the finale’s air that a horror podcast is going to do so much more than any big budget show for any amount of representation they could possibly dream of.
I’d have lost my fucking shit if I discovered it back in 2017.
Side note: I demand to see Jonny fanart.
Im literally a janiter listening to this video lol
@@biancamlf288same, it's the second tma comment I see here and it tells me that we're all healing our Sherlock related trauma with horror. But jokes aside TMA is so many levels higher than Sherlock, plot-wise and in the way they write characters (especially queer ones). Nature is healing
What is TMA? Is this a book?
@@7Mushrooms7 its a podcast! its a horror tragedy that starts off as an anthology but slowly spirals (this is a pun btw) into an overarching plot where you realize everything was connected all along and start screaming. it recently got a "sidequel" as the writer calls it, The Magnus Protocol, so its a really good time to get into those! highly recommend, it has taken over my life :D
Rule of thumb: if something looks like bad writing... it's probably just bad writing. I've heard multiple stories of fanbases that bend over backwards trying to claim that something is 'bad on purpose', because it's part of a conspiracy, or the creator is trying to stick it to the higher ups, or the narrator was a troll this whole time so of course they gave you a shitty clichéd ending, and just decide to play 4D chess with themselves rather than consider the possibility that the content was actually incompetent.
People just don't put that much hard work into making things that are 'bad on purpose'
The author of "My Immortal" laughs at you.
@@d.tsukuyomi1869 that's the exception not the rule
@@d.tsukuyomi1869 tbf I said 'people', whatever ageless being of chaos and cruelty was responsible for My Immortal is excepted from that
@@anawithonen4489 right? Intentionally bad parodies obviously do exist but they're usually one-offs, the thing that makes My Immortal so wild is just how much effort was put into making it intentionally bad
Hanlon’s Razor
If it’s not evil it was probably PURE STUPIDITY
XD
_Gravity Falls_ is the fan involved mystery show that Sherlock wishes it was, Alex Hirsch is the real "throw everything at them and see if they can solve it" king, lol.
Bro the Bill Cipher ARG that happened after the finale was one of the best examples of the creators engaging with the fandom I've seen
True, true
I am still convinced that Gideon is a vampire.
Gravity Falls isn't a fan involved mystery show, Gravity Falls is just the same shitty joke over and over.
@@lukesterling2276
You haven't watch all of Gravity Falls have you?
"the powerpuff girls weren't the first people to theorize that john and sherlock would be endgame" never thought i would hear that sentence but here we are
Maybe this is what Doctor Strange meant
Tumblr:endgame
It IS a very interesting sentence.Also i can't help but think of "Avenegrs: Endgame" whenever i hear it so, that probably doesn't help.
As someone who:
- Never had a Tumblr account
- Wasn’t on the internet until I was around 16-17
- Has never engaged in fandom culture until very recently
- Still generally doesn’t engage in shipping content
I was still pretty convinced that BBC Sherlock was written to be queer coded.
I watched BBC Sherlock upwards of four times back in its peak. Never participated in the fandom once. I never knew any of this was happening. Even with that it mind, I just assumed that BBC was intentionally queer-coding Sherlock and John Watson and just couldn’t pull the trigger on making in canon. I assumed it would either happen eventually, or the series would ambiguously hint at it then end. It’s absolutely written in a way that leads the watcher to believe so, whether they’re in the fandom or not. Learning about all this nonsense now, it’s so boggling to me that the show runners:
A) Never had any intention of queer coding the show
B) Actively mocked and pushed back against fans for the shipping culture that sprung out of it
This channel’s content has been so fascinating to me. It’s like looking up and realized you just barely dodged a train hitting you, over and over again, for years.
10/10 👍
I wasn't there when this happened. I heard a out sherlock and people shipping johnlock but only recently watched the show and had no idea about the drama. And wasn't involved in fandom. And still I legit thought it was gay coded on purpose with the intent of giving it romantic subtext. I'm baffled that the creators now act like it was all in the fans' imagination.
My nonexistent ship was Molly/Irene. Molly deserved better than Sherlock BY FAR and I thought Irene would treat her with the respect and kindness she deserved. Irene would know how much it sucks to have.... anything with Sherlock and the two of them would help each other heal, go on cute dates, and scheme together.
me and my best friend at the time made a facebook page in 2013 called We ship Molirene for this ship!! We got a whopping 7 likes lol
Aww, I really love the sound of that! I would watch a full series with those two as the lesbian leads :3
Agreed that both Molly and Irene deserved better
Can I recommend you The Harley Quinn animate show? For what you just said I think you would love that show.
everybody shut up. except you Katie. You keep talking.
I have read all 30 fanfics of molrene in ao3, I'm that desperate for molrene content. As a fellow Sapphic, I was upset when they hinted things about Irene being in love with sherlock. And TBH, Molly deserved better.
The whole vitriolic hate against Mary is one example in a long list of female characters/actresses getting thrown under the bus by a fanbase due to getting in the way of an otp when will it end....
I was so made by how they wrote Sally Donovan in the show.
And that's fcked up, bc I think there were valid, not hateful reasons to dislike Mary. They made her have this elaborate secret identity for no reason and it was cliche as hell, so much so she didn't feel like a full character to me, but a plot device. And then they offed her in the least climactic way possible with her doctor husband not doing a damn thing about it.
@@ShersterQ Honestly Mary was also done dirty, at the end it felt like she was there just to give John and Sherlock a baby for totally straight reasons
It's really pathetic that Martin Freeman even had to threaten to quit and never do Sherlock related stuff ever again if the fandom didn't leave his partner alone. The vitriol the actress got for daring to star in a role that ruined people's fanfics was disturbing
@@lois7956 That's horrible, I think I checked out of fandom stuff before seeing how bad it had gotten. I thought it was so cute they were an IRL actor couple being Mary and John Watson like come on. This is why we can't have nice things
Coming here after destiel's homophobic confession scene is such a time
The whaaaaaat??
it wasn't homophobic, jeez
@@eleven-hopper i’d say getting sent to superhell specifically because ur a man confessing ur love to another man isn’t great
I'm not in the supernatural fandom and don't plan to be, so I felt kinda bad for laughing when I saw that scene on twitter. Ik some fans were grieving, but I couldn't get over the guys face as the other guy was confessing. He looked like he was ready to punch the gay away during that confession. And the other guy getting sent to super hell right after? Yeah I wheezed. I've never seen a gay love confession be so homophobic😂
@@ashleym6044 i know a lot of ppl are saying that but it's usually just for the reason you stated. you haven't seen the show. dean is one of the most like repressed characters. he hardly shows emotions cause he grew up with a horrible dad who was one of those ones that would be like "boys don't show emotion" and stupid shit like that. no one has ever told him something like that before in that moment. sure, his parents and brother have said i love you before but usually that's it and hardly ever. he doesn't know how to act. that confession just came out of nowhere and he's shocked, confused and scared and doesn't know what to do because his best friend of 12 years is literally telling him he's the most amazing person he ever met while dean hates himself like in every way. the acting in that scene is subtle and it's gets me everytime. if you just pay attention to his eyes, the way his head moves and the way you can see him holding back tears. he doesn't know what to say and do in that moment, and i think most people would do the same. if my best friend suddenly came out with something like that i would probably just be frozen bc no one has ever said something so meaningful and you know that this is a goodbye. the reason why dean didn't say much is because he didn't know what to say, and he's trying to show it instead even if it's subtle. the way he says "don't do this cas," i know a lot of ppl said it's like kind of homophobic but its' not at all. he's not the best with words and he's trying "not like this." because he knows he doesn't have time to say anything back and frankly he doesn't know what to say.
there's lots of tumblr posts with the gifs and it goes into full detail but i just wrote this as quickly as i could, so some of my wording sucks. sorry, that was really long but i've seen so many ppl say his reaction was like homophobic and it just annoys me cause they usually haven't seen the show or watched it in years. so i just had to vent
Creators: “not gonna happen”
Fandom: “THATS CODE FOR YES”
It's a reverse "AND THEN I DIDN'T"