Hands down the best video ive seen for installing fuel injection spot on down to the sealants to use and this video is 11 years old and this guy knocked it out of the park even if you're not installing fuel injection just to watch the video is incredible what this man did thank you
This is the finest instructional video I have ever seen, and I have watched a zillion of them on various subjects. Just impeccable editing, lighting and camera work, no waste of our time, everything shown just right. Plus no ego. Plus lots of knowledge and tradecraft shown. Take a bow!!
Dud u are a class act I enjoyed watching your videos!! I was thinking to myself this guy has to be the editor for TV shows is really what I was thinking
This gentleman's a teacher/professor what a informative carefully planned video Kawasaki could not have done it any better I really liked your turn signal video as well but way beyond my technical abilities as I am noob without tools Thanks
Great work with the brackets but the only note I can make is that you shouldn't keep the fuel filter clamped in this angle as it won't bleed properly and you will have big issues priming the pump or when going low on gas.I have the exact same fuel filter and it cuts off if it has a bubble and it sloshes a bit...In this angle you will never lose the bubble.
Thanks. The kit will work on 08-12 bikes, but the installation will be slightly different because of the different bike geometries. The Throttle body module is the same as the pregen. However, the kits made in 2013 have a different fuel pump that does not have a bubbler line. This makes the module a lot simpler, but the routing of the intake fuel hose is now critical when it wasn't before. The newgen and pregen kits come with different wiring harnesses.
Wonderful, couldn't keep my eyes off the video till the end. Hats off brother. Many thanks. Hope I could assist you with these types of improvisation. My best wishes
i think you should be working on a better rocket / space ship. Your wasting your brain. YIPES. I wonder what you would sound like when you get excited? Like the late Pat Paulsen. He was hilarious. Maybe before you time. :-)
Epic video bro .. I don't even have this bike just watched for the heck of it , i learned a lot . I could learn a lot form you .. wish we was neighbours lol . I wonder if they make kits like this for old Triumph bikes .. I will sub you
Teflon pipe tape will be fine with any fuel. There are submersible fuel pumps sold for replacement on BMW F- G 650 and K bikes About $35 for the kit This simplifies the plumbing...no bubbles, but you must get wiring into the tank.
after installing the efi kit (converted from carburator to efi), how about your bikes performance & fuel consumption. i would like to know the result.. thanks for sharing
Better performance on the low end, slower top speed, Normally effortless starts, no choke. Gas mileage is about the same or a little worse. The problem with finding the perfect fuel pump location has not been completed. If you get the ecotrons kit, think of it as a box of parts that will get you ahead on your own conversion.
1 Year ago I was excited to buy an ecotrons kit for my motorcycle to solve my carb problems and go injection reliable. So I bought 34mm injection kit and started with worse problems than my carb that was design and programming problems, after contacting support and I finally solve all the problems by myself. 1 Year past now I’m experiencing problems again. Check and try all alternatives before you even think to proceed.
Marios Papadopoulos I think you might be talking about a different kit. This video is for the Ninja 250 conversion and it uses a 28mm throttle body and not a 34mm. The Ninja 250 kit is well debugged at this point. That may or may not be true of other kits. In your case, if it worked well at one point, and now suddenly its not, then something happened to mess it up. The first thing I would do is hook up procal and see if all the sensors look normal. If so, then I would suspect a clogged injector. You may have tubing that is not alcohol resistant which can clog the injectors since most gas these days has alcohol in it. The tubing that came with my kit was not alcohol resistant so that may be an indication that yours wasn't either.
n4mwdHello,I have to tell you that the efi kit brand new doesn't start and when it started keeps rpm up and down around (5,000 rpm). For a month the same problem and nothing, they can't find the problem or the solution. I did found the the problem is the iacv doesn't works. After a really long time they believed me that this is the problem and finally they sent a new one and was working and keeping rpm right.But if you give some throttle and let it, the engine stalls. They told me that I have to reset the ecu because the tps is not 0% this works only for a day after the same problem returns and the engine stalls. I did find by myself the solution to fix the problem I have to make the holes on the throttle body of the tps bigger for the tps move freely to 0% and stay there. After that the engine works good when I let the throttle keeps high rpm for a while and then goes down to the idle and I think that is ok.But after a few months the same problem the engine don’t keeps idle or stay only at high idle and all this time I had some small problems with efi.( doesn’t start, keep wrong rpm, stalls)I hook up the the ecu with procal the ecu looks ok at the numbers but if you remove the iacv from the throttle body and leave it connected you can see that it doesn’t works ok. The iacv doesn’t moves as suppose to be.Now some times works some times doesn’t.
Marios Papadopoulos Like I said, you have something other than a Ninja 250 conversion. There is no idle air control motor on the twin throttle body on the Ninja 250 kit. In general, my experience with Ecotrons is that they usually stand by their kits. In general, the firmware on the ECU is not tolerant of not starting at 0%. So you may be on the right track in looking for a mechanical reason why its not returning to 0%. Its also possible that the TPS could be bad. I suggest you pull the connector and use a meter to test the resistance. It should show a smooth transition as you move the throttle. Other than that, I don't think I can help you much since you have a different kit.
No, I haven't. It all depends on how its tuned. Tuning is done on the PC and downloaded to the ECU. One guy reported that he got it up to 110 mph (indicated) on the track with his pregen. My gut feeling is that the top end is about the same as carbs. However, it definitely has more torque on the lower end.
really nice video, amazing! I do have a question... could you use only one injector to supply gas for both of the cylinders? ie ... a single point efi system. will that work well?
@@n4mwd I found a kit called FAI efi system. this kit cost less than 300 bucks and it works perfectly for single cylinder engines. I wonder whether this will work for a twin.
@@n4mwd But I think if the bike has only one carb, replace it with only one fuel injector will result in a performance which is similar to the original.
You don't have a Ninja 250 if you only have one carb. I can only speculate if the single cylinder kit will work on a twin cylinder engine. Obviously, with a twin, you have two spark plugs and will come up short if the kit only supports one. With multi-cylinder single port EFI, the injector isn't really pulsed like in a real efi engine. The injector is simply modulated with the throttle. I suggest that if you want to make something good, that you replace the single carb with dual injectors and a dual throttle body and go with a real EFI system like megasquirt or something similar. One thing to bear in mind is that motorcycles tend to be non-standard in the way they pick up the crank position. The Ninja 250 is radically different from the Ninja 300. So whatever you go with, you need to make sure it will work with your crank position sensor.
Where can I get these EFI kits? I have a Kawasaki GPZ500S twin cilinder which I would like to fit one. Congrats for the excellent tutorial and professional work. Thank you
The kit is not available any more and it was only for the Ninja 250. Just guessing, but it might be possible to retrofit a stock EFI system from a Ninja 300 or 400 or 650 to your bike.
That's just where he gets his mail. I think he works out of his garage. All I can say is that several people have bought kits from him in the past and he has shipped all of them. The older kits had lots of problems, but the newer ones seem right on target. If you have a pregen and you install the kit exactly as I have done in the video, your bike will run fine. If you have other mods, like area P and pods, then you might have to tinker with the fuel maps.
Super install! MPG with eco mode? Instead of zip ties which might not last long with vibration, use safety wire, hose clamps, 3M tape or Velcro depending on the location, heat etc.
Its been a long time, but I think the eco mode switch only functioned to take the O2 sensor out of the circuit. Open vs close loop. The MPG really sucked with this kit and was only around 50 mpg. We were getting 70 mpg on a long trip with the carbs. The EFi gave better performance on the high end. Fine tuning the maps would have given better performance and mpg.
Hi There; Its a very helpfull video that you have made,I would like to install a kit to my Kawasaki Vulcan 1994 500cc,would you be so kind so recomend me what kit should I use. Many Thanks for your help!!!!
Excellent video. i respectfully suggest drilling the o2 exhaust holes using a bimetal holesaw (which are available down to 9/16"). a major peeve I have my CV carb 900 ninja is dealing with the airbox and as a Constant Vacuum design ,won't carburete properly with K&N individual air filters.(I love the Yoshimura 4 into 1 pipe I installed). i'd love to trash the airbox since it takes up so much space and impedes access to other components. will your EFI retro kit work with individual airfilters and no airbox ?
Thanks, this is not my kit. It was sold by a company called Ecotron. I do not recommend buying this kit anymore, however I think it's still available for sale for about $900 us. Last I checked it was no longer being supported by the manufacturer. Also, it only works on a Ninja 250. In your case, I think you could probably pull together enough recycled parts from newer bikes to bring yours into the EFI world. On my 250, I left the air box is in place. The kit will work with airpods, but you have to reprogram the ECU.
Very nice. Where wiring is against metal, a wrap of inner tube rubber allows it to be tie wrapped and not fail later. any bracket edge can be protected this way, using glue to attach the rubber. Like to see some riding and economy info W6WUH
I know this is an old video, but I still want to comment as info on EcoTrons kits is sparse. As others have said, excellent video, 2 thumbs and 2 big toes up! I have an EcoTrons kit on a DRZ400 that I bought. People need to realize that these are NOT plug and play kits. They are not optimized by the vehicle manufacturer, and as such things are not optimal. Duh. There are lots of things that need to be figured out, and that's even separate to the tuning. I am learning day by day more and more about my kit, but it's daunting. Some points I want to make: - Thanks for the info on the different fuel pumps. I have a pump without the bubbler, and it is mounted near horizontal. According to you this is not ideal. Thanks, noted. - You mention that excess wiring should not be coiled, as then a transformer is potentially created. Thank you, noted (I am guilty of having done this and will rectify it). - You mention a loss of about 10mph top speed. I noticed two big no-nos in your install. First, you dumped the IAT (intake air temperature) wire down the airbox intake. Whenever you have a shaped air snorkel, and you dangle something length-wise down it, laminar air flow can be majorly disrupted. If a reverberation sets up in the wire as the intake charge rushes past it the wire will move back and forth interrupting the air flow MORE than if it were simply taped along the inside of the snorkel. I learned this in practice when a customer ran his tank bag straps under the front of the gas tank of his VF750F Interceptor. The airbox openings were right in that area, and the bike was unable to accept more than 1/2 throttle (it would bog), the straps got sucked into and started vibrating in the intake snorkels. By themselves they minorly obstructed the snorkels, but once the air flow picked up their motion shut down things rather dramatically. I got blamed as I had just done the tuneup on the bike, but as soon as I removed the tank the cause was easily visible. The customer picked up the bike after I'd worked on it and then attached his tank bag for the ride home and so forth. Fascinating lesson. Secondly, the whole O2 sensor installation is problematic. There aren't any real guidelines on how far the sensors should protrude into the headers, because most aftermarket exhaust sensors are for auto applications, and those have much bigger diameter piping, where obstructions aren't as problematic. For your eeny Ninja 250 headers, and indeed for most motorcycle headers, the sensors need only JUST poke into the exhaust stream. If they are installed too deep they will indeed cause flow restrictions. Both of these factors would become most apparent at higher throttle openings, indeed, at top speed, hence I'm thinking both of these are quite plausible causes of the 10mph drop in your top speed. On another note I will further say the placement of the sensors is problematic, because the O2 sensors from EcoTrons are 4-wire sensors, meaning they are indeed heated. Unheated 2-wire sensors need to be mounted close to the exhaust valves, heated sensors should be mounted further downstream. This is contrary to what EcoTrons recommends. My setup the sensor is over 20" downstream from the exhaust port, and the bike runs fine. If the bikes run fine either way, what's the point? If I had to choose a place to put an obstruction into the headers I would want it further downstream; closer to the exhaust valves there will be a greater detrimental effect on flow. Finally, some have asked what the point is regarding these kits when the fuel economy isn't improved. The EX250 is a cold-blooded bike, hence the difficult starting. It is jetted lean from the factory. When you have bikes that are lean from the factory improving fuel economy is a challenge and iffy. You get more control with an injection kit, and you can improve driveability, but you need a lot more control than a basic EcoTrons kit to really improve on economy over a bike that's lean from the factory.
Some of the ecotrons kits were set to run too lean and ended up burning holes in pistons. The O2 sensors are narrow band. I wouldn't want to try leaning it up too much without a wideband somewhere in the system. I don't think the ecu actually supports a wideband. The O2 sensors I had are 2-wire and the bung nuts are the perfect size so they don't let the sensor stick into the pipe more than about 1/8 inch. They are about 6 inches below the clamps. I've never had a problem with them not getting hot enough quickly enough. The Ninja 250 has too small of an alternator to be able run the system with heated sensors. It barely has enough current to run without them. I haven't worked on it in a while, but I will rectify the Air intake sensor issue when I resume. Before EFI, I put some stick on foil insulation under the seat. Suddenly, some of it loosened up and started blocking the intakes. I got about half throttle just like you said. Ran fine when I removed the foil completely. i never found a good place to mount the fuel pump. My next step is to mount a metal tube through the airbox and put the fuel pump inside that. Everywhere else, it just gets too hot. I actually designed my own ECU, but life distracted me and I haven't been able to get started back on it again. There are several unusual and unorthodox things about the 250 that make general purpose ECU's like microsquirt problematic.
@@n4mwd Thanks for all that info. If you have 2-wire O2 sensors, then your mounting location makes sense. 1/8" intrusion is quite minimal, I can't see that being an issue. According to EcoTrons manual (the one I have may be old) wideband sensors are supported, it's supposed to be wired into the Eco/Rich switch. Supposedly. Kind of ridiculous that a main problem for you has been fuel pump location. That must be very annoying. When you had the original pump in its horizontal position under the throttle bodies, were you getting vapor lock? What does that manifest as? That the bike just doesn't want to run, because there's no fuel flow? I hear you on the ecu. Currently I have a DynaTek cdi, and the EcoTrons ecu gets its ckp+ (crank position sensor) signal from the tach wire output of the DynaTek. It works. I haven't tried tying into the actual coil wires coming off the stator; the original owner tried that at one point and can't remember how/why he ended up with the current setup. But the ideal would be to have one ecu handling both the injection and the ignition.
@@peedee4065 The problem I had here with the fuel pump is that in the summer the engine gets very hot and causes vapor lock in the fuel pump. As long as its running, it does ok because the constant circulation of the cold fuel keeps the pump cool. In the nearly horizontal position like in the video, its behind the engine, getting all the heat, but no air. When I would ride it to a store, come back out, then the engine would not start. Without the constant circulation, the gas just turns to vapors with all that heat. My current version is with the pump on the side of the engine. Its a little better, but still has problems. The Ninja 250 has a modified tooth signal that most ECU's don't support. Instead of a bunch of teeth with one missing, it has long ones, short ones, big gaps and little gaps. The advantage is that you don't need a full rotation to figure out where the crank is.
@@n4mwd O.k. thanks. Haven't had non-start issues after stopping, but I feel my engine puts out a lot of radiant heat. I'm familiar with the tooth/pickup issues. EcoTrons is limited in what it can see. My DRZ is simple in that it has one long tooth and one short tooth, both within 90 degrees of each other, which according to the manual I have is the most complicated setup EcoTrons can support. However, as I said above, my ckp+ input is actually the tach wire of the Dyna. Not supposed to be that way, but it works. I may or may not fiddle around with it.
@@peedee4065 Depends on where you live. My bike ran fine in the winter, but vapor locked in the summer. Its pretty hot behind an engine in south Florida in the summer. The ecotrons ecu worked fine with the 250 big/little tooth system. I don't think the microsquirt ECU kits can handle it though. Maybe with some reprogramming. The one I designed had spark and fuel control in one unit. I designed all the circuit boards, but never had a chance to build it. I'll probably redesign it again before its all over.
Thank you so much for sharing your genius. I'd love to buy a kit but I'm skeptical of the company. The 411 operator says there's no business listed at the 19875 w 12 mile rd. address in Southfield Mich. Also there is no phone contact listed on the econtrons web site. This as of March 11, 2013.
This kit doesn't include or doesn't use any CKP sensor? Because I want to convert my Keeway Superlight 200 with a kit from Aliexpress but im worried about if the CKP sensor is really needed, and since my bike is carburated I have to do modifications to adapt a crank wheel and the sensor
The Ninja 250 has a built in crankshaft sensor. The kit simply connects to it. There is no camshaft sensor. The kit uses a vacuum sensor to distinguish stroke 1 from stroke 3. Can you post a link to your EFI kit on aliexpress?
Yes, I would. The top end may be a little less than the carbs, so if that is that important, then no. But on the lower end there is noticeably more power, so you have slightly faster take offs and don't have to downshift as much when going around corners. Even still, one guy got his up to 110 mpg (indicated) with a lot of fiddling on the computer with the parameters. My main reason for upgrading was simply that I hate carbs. In 40F weather, you just push the starter button and it comes to a nice steady 1500 RPM and you just ride off. Not so easy with carbs. Plus on the pregen the carbs are always giving me trouble. I have two pregens. I plan to upgrade the second one soon pending finances. As far as the parameters, I recommend leaving them factory unless you know exactly what you are doing. Too much gas gives rotten mileage, too little burns holes in pistons.
E Flanagan Nickname for the 1988-2007 models. Pregen = "PREvious GENeration" - The 2008-2012 models are "NewGen" and the Newer 300cc models are simply called 300's. The EFI is especially good in cold weather where it starts effortlessly and comes to a steady 1500 RPM.
I think it was ecotrons.com but last I heard he had the price jacked way up so that it's no longer feasible. Don't expect any support after you buy it. A 2013 ninja 300 was stock EFI and a much better deal.
In your diagram at 6:23 you connect a line from the fuel pump bubble'r to a Tee. What would happen if a check valve was introduced to the bubble'r line? What effect would it have on the fuel pump and/or fuel pressure regulator?
The newer fuel pumps don't have a bubbler line. I don't think a check valve would help. The bubbler line was originally recommended by the kit manufacturer, which is why I included it, but its no longer used. The bubbles are just gasoline vapor, not air. So when they get to the high pressure side of the pump, they turn back to liquid. However, if the pump isn't positioned correctly, the heat from the engine can build up in the pump, especially when you turn the engine off, and cause a vapor lock. That is why the location of the fuel pump in this video turned out to not be ideal. I have not had a chance to change it, but the only fuel pump location that would work properly is inside the air box.
@@n4mwd Thank you for the information! Inside the airbox sounds interesting, probably 2nd best to inside the fuel tank I would think. Great job on the video!
Thanks, Inside the tank is definitely the best, but getting it in there is a bit of a problem. For the 2008-2012 ninja 250, it might be possible to make something work by altering the tank to accept a ninja 300 fuel pump. No chance for a 250 older than 2008 though. That said, if you have the 2008-2013 250 you might be able to buy a european tank and fuel pump.
I don't think so, or at least I have never heard of it. The kit did seem to give a little more acceleration power on the high end, but the top speed was about 10 mph lower. Some people were able to tune the EFI parameters to their own body weight and size. Last I heard he was charging $800 for the kit, but when I just went there now, there are no prices and no way to order.
Do you work for NASA? :-) Me too. I don't have a motorcycle, just wanted to see the best efi system. This guy is amazing and a great teacher. thanks Dennis. Oink Oink. :-) Man, your some rocket scientist for sure. You should be a teacher. I want to get a honda scooter but not a new one. Was thinking about it with the carbs.. but have not seen any good efi kits for them. I'm sure they have better ones than this by now. Thanks.
No, I have never worked for NASA. I'm currently working on a new EFI controller for a Ninja 250 from the transistors up. It ill be open hardware/source when I get done with it. Not sure if I will make a video as its a bit technical.
It has a new fuel pump these days that makes the plumbing a little easier than the version I installed. You need to buy EFI hose clamps because they don't come in the kit, but other than that, its possible to install it without brackets or a fuel pressure test port. Things will dangle and flop around a bit though. There are worm clamps that come with the kit, but don't use those.
No. It has too high of a power draw. The bike needs to have an alternator. The Ninja is just barely able to power it. I don't recommend this kit, but if you just want to experiment, its a good starting point. At $800, its a very expensive kit.
The fuel tap that replaced the old petcock came with the kit. It was machined out of aluminum and had two copper tubes glued inside. I don't recommend the kit at this time since there are better options available now.
@@kalloe5090 Scavenging parts from junkyard Ninja 300's would be my first choice. I am using a Euro 250 throttle body on my next conversion. I'm pretty sure that Ninja 300 parts can be used on a 250 with some modification. I seem to recall a video posted of a guy that did that but I don't have the link handy.
+Pickle2drjetta I wouldn't know anything about the turbo, because I don't have one. I have read online that they are difficult to set up though. The Ninja 250 EFI conversion is fairly mature at this point so the ECU doesn't usually require additional programming, but you can if you want to.
im looking for the bracket CAD file i got a used kit that powers up from ebay and it is also a California bike 2007 ninja 250. carbs are all clogged up and barely idles on full choke. its my only carbed vehicle and i miss riding it but i hate the warm up times and having to clean the carbs every year.
Unfortunately, the single package idea didn't work out. The fuel pump, when located behind the engine, got too hot and lost prime. I moved it to the side with the new mount and it did much better, but still wasn't perfect.
It started failing about 5 years ago. There is no practical way to diagnose it with the EFI controller. So the bike has been sitting until I have time to figure it all out.
@@statendrei5 Me too. The problem is intermittent so the problem is next to impossible to diagnose without an EFI controller that can self diagnose or at least provide reasonable logs. To fix it I will have to design a new EFI controller that has the proper diagnostic capabilities.
With ECO I am seeing about 60-65 mpg. That is comparable with carbs with my riding style. I tried RICH one time, but I didn't see any significant decrease. It all depends on how you have your variables set up in the tables.
My riding style is very aggressive, high rpms, and fast takeoffs, also trying to get into stunting, would you advise for me to not even waste my time with the O2 sensors untill i absolutely need them?
Rusty Fox The O2 sensors make the initial programming easier, that is, you don't have to program anything, but it is not impossible to run without them if you don't mind tinkering with your maps for hours on end. Not using O2 sensors can simplify mechanical installation because there wouldn't be any welding required. So if welding the sensors in is a major problem, then you can run without them in RICH mode.
@@EmoFox9 I'm sure you've long since figured this out, but use the o2 sensor. Take it to a welding shop and have them do it if necessary, but especially if youre not a pro at tuning dont try tuning it without o2.
GREAT VIEDO!! You could try: Permatex 85420 for the thread sealant. I don't think you can get Hylomar any longer which is what I would normally recommend.
I am told that Permatex purchased the Hylomar company and came out with the 85420 which is essentially the same product or at least heavily based on it. I don't know if it will work or not, but it must be both gasoline and alcohol resistant.
n4mwd According to the Permatex website (trimmed down description) it is resistant to fuel and Ethanol: With an operating temperature range of -60° to 500°F (-50° to 260°C), this compound resists common engine fluids, including oil, gasoline, ethanol, water and anti-freeze and prevents contamination from moisture and dust. - See more at: www.permatex.com/products-2/product-categories/gasketing/gasket-sealants/permatex-permashield-fuel-resistant-gasket-dressing-flange-sealant-detail#sthash.I9HHAMFH.dpuf
n4mwd I have a classic 250r. How is the system working now you been running it for over a year (besides the fuel pump problem)? Did you get it professionally tuned? If not would you consider it? Thanks
sammydag I'm not sure if it can be professionally tuned. I'm not entirely sure if the software used by the kit is compatible with that the professional guys expect. Its free, and a lot of guys tuned it themselves with no problem. To be honest, I haven't gotten in to the programming of the kit myself because it worked good enough out of the box - but there is definitely room for improvement in some areas. Out of the box, mine had more power at the low end but less power at the top. Some guys have been able to adjust the programming on theirs to increase the power on the top end to about equal to the carbs. There's no need for compromise on the kit because its programmable - so those guys ended up with more low end power and the same high end power as the carbs. I did have a vapor lock issue with mine and I haven't had a chance to move the fuel pump to the side so that its in the air stream. Factory EFI bikes have the pump in the tank so that it stays cool, but they don't have full circulation once it leaves. Thus the factory bikes also suffer from vapor lock on occasion.
I think they were about $1000 last I checked and I don't think they are supported any more. Its not a good option right now given the availability of Ninja 300-400 factory EFi bikes.
Are far as the efi it works flawless I emailed them and the just told me to turn up the global enrichment but that wonk help for different amounts of boost at different rpm I was wondering how to do that so everything will jive and you seem like the only person I could find anywhere with any type of knowledge about this system. Everything is all hooked up and good to go they sent me the correct kit with the bigger injector to supply enough fuel. It will not run very well on Eco mode only rich
+Pickle2drjetta I agree. You are going to need to go to the maps and tinker with them. Depending on the version, you might be able to save the existing maps to a file and then edit them there and then reload from the file. That way you can keep track of what works and what doesn't. Global enrichment isn't going to work.
You can email ecotrons and see if they have anything compatible. If not, they might have something you can make to work, but it will require a lot of fiddling.
I found your video interesting and informative. However I was expecting at least a little excitement in your voice when you started it up for the first time. You sounded so bored! lol
can't believe it fired right up immediately. Like... when does that ever happen to anyone. I've seen a few efi retro fit kits and they seem like junk or they have problems galore with the. Surely they can't be this complicated in 2018.
+gutterziswin After I posted the video, it became obvious that it was a bad design so I pulled the video. I'm currently working on a new way too install it. I hope to have have a new video soon.
+n4mwd I think there may be a problem with the new fuel pump. I got it to work and maintain pressure at idle, but it doesn't produce enough volume under hard acceleration. I am going to try to contact Matt at Ecotrons about it.
+n4mwd I found that the problem was that the new pump has significantly greater suction than the old pump. The flow restriction caused by the quick disconnects caused a partial vapor lock. The bottom line is that the quick disconnects had to go and were replaced with a ball valve. I hope to have a new video soon.
ah ha....see, that is all I have seen is problems problems with these aftermarket efi kits. How does it work at the factory but not if you put it in a box separately?
The 250 factory EFI is not available in the US. last I heard. You could probably import enough EU parts to make a Newgen work though. Pregens like this one have to be hand modified.
Hands down the best video ive seen for installing fuel injection spot on down to the sealants to use and this video is 11 years old and this guy knocked it out of the park even if you're not installing fuel injection just to watch the video is incredible what this man did thank you
Thanks, I appreciate the comment.
This is the finest instructional video I have ever seen, and I have watched a zillion of them on various subjects. Just impeccable editing, lighting and camera work, no waste of our time, everything shown just right. Plus no ego. Plus lots of knowledge and tradecraft shown. Take a bow!!
Thanks, you might also like:
Luggage rack ruclips.net/video/KGYLvTQ9-iY/видео.html and
Removing carbs ruclips.net/video/AD5br8HCfn0/видео.html
Dud u are a class act I enjoyed watching your videos!! I was thinking to myself this guy has to be the editor for TV shows is really what I was thinking
Sadly I can only give 1 like for this video. This is amazing!
Thanks :-)
This is impressive. You provided just the right amount of detail and the work is quality! Thank you for creating this.
This is unbelievably good video. What a dedication, professionalism... Wonderful.
Thanks, I appreciate the comment.
This gentleman's a teacher/professor what a informative carefully planned video
Kawasaki could not have done it any better I really liked your turn signal video
as well but way beyond my technical abilities as I am noob without tools
Thanks
Amazing sir. I do not have the bike but still watched it to learn. Thank you. Amazing production and content quality.
Thanks.
Thank you. very professionally made video too!
Outstanding ! 👍🏼 GREAT thorough detail, that any reasonably competent DIYer can follow. 🤓
Great work with the brackets but the only note I can make is that you shouldn't keep the fuel filter clamped in this angle as it won't bleed properly and you will have big issues priming the pump or when going low on gas.I have the exact same fuel filter and it cuts off if it has a bubble and it sloshes a bit...In this angle you will never lose the bubble.
Phenomenal video! I love the detail and layout. I wish all videos could be this good.
Thanks. The kit will work on 08-12 bikes, but the installation will be slightly different because of the different bike geometries. The Throttle body module is the same as the pregen. However, the kits made in 2013 have a different fuel pump that does not have a bubbler line. This makes the module a lot simpler, but the routing of the intake fuel hose is now critical when it wasn't before. The newgen and pregen kits come with different wiring harnesses.
good job...very well designed and professionally executed !!!
Wonderful, couldn't keep my eyes off the video till the end. Hats off brother. Many thanks. Hope I could assist you with these types of improvisation. My best wishes
Thanks. I'm currently working on a new homebuilt EFI system that is made from the transistors up. IT might be another video if I ever get it working.
i think you should be working on a better rocket / space ship. Your wasting your brain. YIPES. I wonder what you would sound like when you get excited? Like the late Pat Paulsen. He was hilarious. Maybe before you time. :-)
Thanks. There are a couple of youtube videos of Pat Paulsen. He was funny.
Epic video bro .. I don't even have this bike just watched for the heck of it , i learned a lot . I could learn a lot form you .. wish we was neighbours lol . I wonder if they make kits like this for old Triumph bikes .. I will sub you
Have you made some sort of a dyno run to see what additional power the EFI makes and do you have some estimate of the fuel savings?
Teflon pipe tape will be fine with any fuel. There are submersible fuel pumps sold for replacement on BMW F- G 650 and K bikes About $35 for the kit This simplifies the plumbing...no bubbles, but you must get wiring into the tank.
after installing the efi kit (converted from carburator to efi), how about your bikes performance & fuel consumption.
i would like to know the result..
thanks for sharing
Better performance on the low end, slower top speed, Normally effortless starts, no choke. Gas mileage is about the same or a little worse. The problem with finding the perfect fuel pump location has not been completed. If you get the ecotrons kit, think of it as a box of parts that will get you ahead on your own conversion.
n4mwd so it's essentially pointless?
Or am I missing something (other than slightly better low end)?
Take a shot every time he says bung nut.
Great video, thanks you!
1 Year ago I was excited to buy an ecotrons kit for my motorcycle to solve my carb problems and go injection reliable. So I bought 34mm injection kit and started with worse problems than my carb that was design and programming problems, after contacting support and I finally solve all the problems by myself. 1 Year past now I’m experiencing problems again. Check and try all alternatives before you even think to proceed.
Marios Papadopoulos I think you might be talking about a different kit. This video is for the Ninja 250 conversion and it uses a 28mm throttle body and not a 34mm. The Ninja 250 kit is well debugged at this point. That may or may not be true of other kits.
In your case, if it worked well at one point, and now suddenly its not, then something happened to mess it up. The first thing I would do is hook up procal and see if all the sensors look normal. If so, then I would suspect a clogged injector. You may have tubing that is not alcohol resistant which can clog the injectors since most gas these days has alcohol in it. The tubing that came with my kit was not alcohol resistant so that may be an indication that yours wasn't either.
n4mwdHello,I have to tell you that the efi kit brand new
doesn't start and when it started keeps rpm up and down around (5,000 rpm).
For a month the same problem and nothing, they can't find
the problem or the solution. I did found the the problem is the iacv doesn't works.
After a really long time they believed me that this is the problem and finally
they sent a new one and was working and keeping rpm right.But if you give some throttle and let it, the engine stalls. They told me
that I have to reset the ecu because the tps is not 0% this works only for a
day after the same problem returns and the engine stalls. I did find by myself the
solution to fix the problem I have to make the holes on the throttle body of
the tps bigger for the tps move freely to 0% and stay there. After that the
engine works good when I let the throttle keeps high rpm for a while and then
goes down to the idle and I think that is ok.But after a few months the same problem the
engine don’t keeps idle or stay only at high idle and all this time I had some
small problems with efi.( doesn’t start,
keep wrong rpm, stalls)I hook up the the ecu with procal the ecu looks
ok at the numbers but if you remove the iacv from the throttle body and leave
it connected you can see that it doesn’t
works ok. The iacv doesn’t moves as suppose to be.Now some times works some times doesn’t.
Marios Papadopoulos Like I said, you have something other than a Ninja 250 conversion. There is no idle air control motor on the twin throttle body on the Ninja 250 kit. In general, my experience with Ecotrons is that they usually stand by their kits.
In general, the firmware on the ECU is not tolerant of not starting at 0%. So you may be on the right track in looking for a mechanical reason why its not returning to 0%. Its also possible that the TPS could be bad. I suggest you pull the connector and use a meter to test the resistance. It should show a smooth transition as you move the throttle.
Other than that, I don't think I can help you much since you have a different kit.
n4mwd Thank you for you messages and for your suggest
No, I haven't. It all depends on how its tuned. Tuning is done on the PC and downloaded to the ECU. One guy reported that he got it up to 110 mph (indicated) on the track with his pregen. My gut feeling is that the top end is about the same as carbs. However, it definitely has more torque on the lower end.
Does all this apply for 08-12 also ? Cause I see your doing it on a 07 ... Awesome video by the way, very informative
Very nicely done; wonder how the tuning aspect of this project went?
Fantastic video.. very professionally done. Thanks for taking the time to do make this video.
really nice video, amazing!
I do have a question... could you use only one injector to supply gas for both of the cylinders? ie ... a single point efi system. will that work well?
Probably, but it would be a lot more work and would have poorer performance.
@@n4mwd I found a kit called FAI efi system. this kit cost less than 300 bucks and it works perfectly for single cylinder engines. I wonder whether this will work for a twin.
@@n4mwd But I think if the bike has only one carb, replace it with only one fuel injector will result in a performance which is similar to the original.
You don't have a Ninja 250 if you only have one carb. I can only speculate if the single cylinder kit will work on a twin cylinder engine. Obviously, with a twin, you have two spark plugs and will come up short if the kit only supports one.
With multi-cylinder single port EFI, the injector isn't really pulsed like in a real efi engine. The injector is simply modulated with the throttle. I suggest that if you want to make something good, that you replace the single carb with dual injectors and a dual throttle body and go with a real EFI system like megasquirt or something similar.
One thing to bear in mind is that motorcycles tend to be non-standard in the way they pick up the crank position. The Ninja 250 is radically different from the Ninja 300. So whatever you go with, you need to make sure it will work with your crank position sensor.
Where can I get these EFI kits? I have a Kawasaki GPZ500S twin cilinder which I would like to fit one. Congrats for the excellent tutorial and professional work. Thank you
The kit is not available any more and it was only for the Ninja 250. Just guessing, but it might be possible to retrofit a stock EFI system from a Ninja 300 or 400 or 650 to your bike.
Fantastic video! Answered so many of my problems!
So many Kudos to you for this video!
That's just where he gets his mail. I think he works out of his garage. All I can say is that several people have bought kits from him in the past and he has shipped all of them. The older kits had lots of problems, but the newer ones seem right on target. If you have a pregen and you install the kit exactly as I have done in the video, your bike will run fine. If you have other mods, like area P and pods, then you might have to tinker with the fuel maps.
Nicely done
Super install! MPG with eco mode? Instead of zip ties which might not last long with vibration, use safety wire, hose clamps, 3M tape or Velcro depending on the location, heat etc.
Its been a long time, but I think the eco mode switch only functioned to take the O2 sensor out of the circuit. Open vs close loop. The MPG really sucked with this kit and was only around 50 mpg. We were getting 70 mpg on a long trip with the carbs. The EFi gave better performance on the high end. Fine tuning the maps would have given better performance and mpg.
Hi There; Its a very helpfull video that you have made,I would like to install a kit to my Kawasaki Vulcan 1994 500cc,would you be so kind so recomend me what kit should I use. Many Thanks for your help!!!!
Excellent video. i respectfully suggest drilling the o2 exhaust holes using a bimetal holesaw (which are available down to 9/16").
a major peeve I have my CV carb 900 ninja is dealing with the airbox and as a Constant Vacuum design ,won't carburete properly with K&N individual air filters.(I love the Yoshimura 4 into 1 pipe I installed). i'd love to trash the airbox since it takes up so much space and impedes access to other components. will your EFI retro kit work with individual airfilters and no airbox ?
Thanks, this is not my kit. It was sold by a company called Ecotron. I do not recommend buying this kit anymore, however I think it's still available for sale for about $900 us. Last I checked it was no longer being supported by the manufacturer. Also, it only works on a Ninja 250. In your case, I think you could probably pull together enough recycled parts from newer bikes to bring yours into the EFI world. On my 250, I left the air box is in place. The kit will work with airpods, but you have to reprogram the ECU.
Hello. Why do you don't recommend it anymore? After sales maybe?
What does this cost? Can't find the price anywhere
Very nice. Where wiring is against metal, a wrap of inner tube rubber allows it to be tie wrapped and not fail later. any bracket edge can be protected this way, using glue to attach the rubber. Like to see some riding and economy info W6WUH
amigo, habra alguna oportunidad en la cual puedas subir el video traducido al español?
me interesa mucho.
very nice and clean
I know this is an old video, but I still want to comment as info on EcoTrons kits is sparse. As others have said, excellent video, 2 thumbs and 2 big toes up! I have an EcoTrons kit on a DRZ400 that I bought. People need to realize that these are NOT plug and play kits. They are not optimized by the vehicle manufacturer, and as such things are not optimal. Duh. There are lots of things that need to be figured out, and that's even separate to the tuning. I am learning day by day more and more about my kit, but it's daunting. Some points I want to make:
- Thanks for the info on the different fuel pumps. I have a pump without the bubbler, and it is mounted near horizontal. According to you this is not ideal. Thanks, noted.
- You mention that excess wiring should not be coiled, as then a transformer is potentially created. Thank you, noted (I am guilty of having done this and will rectify it).
- You mention a loss of about 10mph top speed. I noticed two big no-nos in your install. First, you dumped the IAT (intake air temperature) wire down the airbox intake. Whenever you have a shaped air snorkel, and you dangle something length-wise down it, laminar air flow can be majorly disrupted. If a reverberation sets up in the wire as the intake charge rushes past it the wire will move back and forth interrupting the air flow MORE than if it were simply taped along the inside of the snorkel. I learned this in practice when a customer ran his tank bag straps under the front of the gas tank of his VF750F Interceptor. The airbox openings were right in that area, and the bike was unable to accept more than 1/2 throttle (it would bog), the straps got sucked into and started vibrating in the intake snorkels. By themselves they minorly obstructed the snorkels, but once the air flow picked up their motion shut down things rather dramatically. I got blamed as I had just done the tuneup on the bike, but as soon as I removed the tank the cause was easily visible. The customer picked up the bike after I'd worked on it and then attached his tank bag for the ride home and so forth. Fascinating lesson. Secondly, the whole O2 sensor installation is problematic. There aren't any real guidelines on how far the sensors should protrude into the headers, because most aftermarket exhaust sensors are for auto applications, and those have much bigger diameter piping, where obstructions aren't as problematic. For your eeny Ninja 250 headers, and indeed for most motorcycle headers, the sensors need only JUST poke into the exhaust stream. If they are installed too deep they will indeed cause flow restrictions. Both of these factors would become most apparent at higher throttle openings, indeed, at top speed, hence I'm thinking both of these are quite plausible causes of the 10mph drop in your top speed. On another note I will further say the placement of the sensors is problematic, because the O2 sensors from EcoTrons are 4-wire sensors, meaning they are indeed heated. Unheated 2-wire sensors need to be mounted close to the exhaust valves, heated sensors should be mounted further downstream. This is contrary to what EcoTrons recommends. My setup the sensor is over 20" downstream from the exhaust port, and the bike runs fine. If the bikes run fine either way, what's the point? If I had to choose a place to put an obstruction into the headers I would want it further downstream; closer to the exhaust valves there will be a greater detrimental effect on flow. Finally, some have asked what the point is regarding these kits when the fuel economy isn't improved. The EX250 is a cold-blooded bike, hence the difficult starting. It is jetted lean from the factory. When you have bikes that are lean from the factory improving fuel economy is a challenge and iffy. You get more control with an injection kit, and you can improve driveability, but you need a lot more control than a basic EcoTrons kit to really improve on economy over a bike that's lean from the factory.
Some of the ecotrons kits were set to run too lean and ended up burning holes in pistons. The O2 sensors are narrow band. I wouldn't want to try leaning it up too much without a wideband somewhere in the system. I don't think the ecu actually supports a wideband. The O2 sensors I had are 2-wire and the bung nuts are the perfect size so they don't let the sensor stick into the pipe more than about 1/8 inch. They are about 6 inches below the clamps. I've never had a problem with them not getting hot enough quickly enough. The Ninja 250 has too small of an alternator to be able run the system with heated sensors. It barely has enough current to run without them. I haven't worked on it in a while, but I will rectify the Air intake sensor issue when I resume. Before EFI, I put some stick on foil insulation under the seat. Suddenly, some of it loosened up and started blocking the intakes. I got about half throttle just like you said. Ran fine when I removed the foil completely. i never found a good place to mount the fuel pump. My next step is to mount a metal tube through the airbox and put the fuel pump inside that. Everywhere else, it just gets too hot. I actually designed my own ECU, but life distracted me and I haven't been able to get started back on it again. There are several unusual and unorthodox things about the 250 that make general purpose ECU's like microsquirt problematic.
@@n4mwd Thanks for all that info. If you have 2-wire O2 sensors, then your mounting location makes sense. 1/8" intrusion is quite minimal, I can't see that being an issue. According to EcoTrons manual (the one I have may be old) wideband sensors are supported, it's supposed to be wired into the Eco/Rich switch. Supposedly. Kind of ridiculous that a main problem for you has been fuel pump location. That must be very annoying. When you had the original pump in its horizontal position under the throttle bodies, were you getting vapor lock? What does that manifest as? That the bike just doesn't want to run, because there's no fuel flow? I hear you on the ecu. Currently I have a DynaTek cdi, and the EcoTrons ecu gets its ckp+ (crank position sensor) signal from the tach wire output of the DynaTek. It works. I haven't tried tying into the actual coil wires coming off the stator; the original owner tried that at one point and can't remember how/why he ended up with the current setup. But the ideal would be to have one ecu handling both the injection and the ignition.
@@peedee4065 The problem I had here with the fuel pump is that in the summer the engine gets very hot and causes vapor lock in the fuel pump. As long as its running, it does ok because the constant circulation of the cold fuel keeps the pump cool. In the nearly horizontal position like in the video, its behind the engine, getting all the heat, but no air. When I would ride it to a store, come back out, then the engine would not start. Without the constant circulation, the gas just turns to vapors with all that heat. My current version is with the pump on the side of the engine. Its a little better, but still has problems. The Ninja 250 has a modified tooth signal that most ECU's don't support. Instead of a bunch of teeth with one missing, it has long ones, short ones, big gaps and little gaps. The advantage is that you don't need a full rotation to figure out where the crank is.
@@n4mwd O.k. thanks. Haven't had non-start issues after stopping, but I feel my engine puts out a lot of radiant heat. I'm familiar with the tooth/pickup issues. EcoTrons is limited in what it can see. My DRZ is simple in that it has one long tooth and one short tooth, both within 90 degrees of each other, which according to the manual I have is the most complicated setup EcoTrons can support. However, as I said above, my ckp+ input is actually the tach wire of the Dyna. Not supposed to be that way, but it works. I may or may not fiddle around with it.
@@peedee4065 Depends on where you live. My bike ran fine in the winter, but vapor locked in the summer. Its pretty hot behind an engine in south Florida in the summer. The ecotrons ecu worked fine with the 250 big/little tooth system. I don't think the microsquirt ECU kits can handle it though. Maybe with some reprogramming. The one I designed had spark and fuel control in one unit. I designed all the circuit boards, but never had a chance to build it. I'll probably redesign it again before its all over.
Great video.
I have not had a problem with this version, however, the new version of the fuel pump requires the filter to be in a near vertical position.
Jeez. This is a serious task
Very. I was in the process of making my own EFI controller when I got distracted by family problems.
Thank you so much for sharing your genius. I'd love to buy a kit but I'm skeptical of the company. The 411 operator says there's no business listed at the 19875 w 12 mile rd. address in Southfield Mich. Also there is no phone contact listed on the econtrons web site. This as of March 11, 2013.
Well done, great video 👍
Thanks!
Excellent...!!!
This kit doesn't include or doesn't use any CKP sensor? Because I want to convert my Keeway Superlight 200 with a kit from Aliexpress but im worried about if the CKP sensor is really needed, and since my bike is carburated I have to do modifications to adapt a crank wheel and the sensor
The Ninja 250 has a built in crankshaft sensor. The kit simply connects to it. There is no camshaft sensor. The kit uses a vacuum sensor to distinguish stroke 1 from stroke 3. Can you post a link to your EFI kit on aliexpress?
@@n4mwd If the url doesn't show, just look by "efi kit" on aliexpress, I'm looking to buy a 200cc kit
would u recommend this as an upgrade? benefits? better power? Very interested in it
Yes, I would. The top end may be a little less than the carbs, so if that is that important, then no. But on the lower end there is noticeably more power, so you have slightly faster take offs and don't have to downshift as much when going around corners. Even still, one guy got his up to 110 mpg (indicated) with a lot of fiddling on the computer with the parameters. My main reason for upgrading was simply that I hate carbs. In 40F weather, you just push the starter button and it comes to a nice steady 1500 RPM and you just ride off. Not so easy with carbs. Plus on the pregen the carbs are always giving me trouble. I have two pregens. I plan to upgrade the second one soon pending finances. As far as the parameters, I recommend leaving them factory unless you know exactly what you are doing. Too much gas gives rotten mileage, too little burns holes in pistons.
n4mwd
What is a Pregen ? thanks,Ed
E Flanagan Nickname for the 1988-2007 models. Pregen = "PREvious GENeration" - The 2008-2012 models are "NewGen" and the Newer 300cc models are simply called 300's. The EFI is especially good in cold weather where it starts effortlessly and comes to a steady 1500 RPM.
where did you get the kit i have a 2012 ninja 250 i like to convert it
I think it was ecotrons.com but last I heard he had the price jacked way up so that it's no longer feasible. Don't expect any support after you buy it. A 2013 ninja 300 was stock EFI and a much better deal.
In your diagram at 6:23 you connect a line from the fuel pump bubble'r to a Tee. What would happen if a check valve was introduced to the bubble'r line? What effect would it have on the fuel pump and/or fuel pressure regulator?
The newer fuel pumps don't have a bubbler line. I don't think a check valve would help. The bubbler line was originally recommended by the kit manufacturer, which is why I included it, but its no longer used.
The bubbles are just gasoline vapor, not air. So when they get to the high pressure side of the pump, they turn back to liquid. However, if the pump isn't positioned correctly, the heat from the engine can build up in the pump, especially when you turn the engine off, and cause a vapor lock.
That is why the location of the fuel pump in this video turned out to not be ideal. I have not had a chance to change it, but the only fuel pump location that would work properly is inside the air box.
@@n4mwd Thank you for the information! Inside the airbox sounds interesting, probably 2nd best to inside the fuel tank I would think. Great job on the video!
Thanks, Inside the tank is definitely the best, but getting it in there is a bit of a problem. For the 2008-2012 ninja 250, it might be possible to make something work by altering the tank to accept a ninja 300 fuel pump. No chance for a 250 older than 2008 though. That said, if you have the 2008-2013 250 you might be able to buy a european tank and fuel pump.
Dude sounds like ron swanson I love it
Excellent video ! Thank you very much :-)
excuse me,May I ask a question?? where did i can buy it??thank you
pb111 You can take a look at the ecotrons.com website at www.ecotrons.com/products/kawasaki_ninja_250cc_fuel_injection_kit/
Amazing ... Wonder if anyone has done a before and after Dyno run .. I'm sure the efi would extract more power ..
I don't think so, or at least I have never heard of it. The kit did seem to give a little more acceleration power on the high end, but the top speed was about 10 mph lower. Some people were able to tune the EFI parameters to their own body weight and size. Last I heard he was charging $800 for the kit, but when I just went there now, there are no prices and no way to order.
Do you work for NASA? :-) Me too. I don't have a motorcycle, just wanted to see the best efi system. This guy is amazing and a great teacher. thanks Dennis. Oink Oink. :-) Man, your some rocket scientist for sure. You should be a teacher. I want to get a honda scooter but not a new one. Was thinking about it with the carbs.. but have not seen any good efi kits for them. I'm sure they have better ones than this by now. Thanks.
No, I have never worked for NASA. I'm currently working on a new EFI controller for a Ninja 250 from the transistors up. It ill be open hardware/source when I get done with it. Not sure if I will make a video as its a bit technical.
it seems you did a lot of extra stuff, but can one complete the installation with parts that came wit the kit?
It has a new fuel pump these days that makes the plumbing a little easier than the version I installed. You need to buy EFI hose clamps because they don't come in the kit, but other than that, its possible to install it without brackets or a fuel pressure test port. Things will dangle and flop around a bit though. There are worm clamps that come with the kit, but don't use those.
n4mwd well thank you
can i use this system in a kick start bike if i ad a battery?
how much did your system cost and how many hours did you spent?
No. It has too high of a power draw. The bike needs to have an alternator. The Ninja is just barely able to power it. I don't recommend this kit, but if you just want to experiment, its a good starting point. At $800, its a very expensive kit.
Where did you get that dual port fuel tap? I do not see it listed in the parts list for the efi conversion kit.
The fuel tap that replaced the old petcock came with the kit. It was machined out of aluminum and had two copper tubes glued inside. I don't recommend the kit at this time since there are better options available now.
@@n4mwd what is a better option
@@kalloe5090 Scavenging parts from junkyard Ninja 300's would be my first choice. I am using a Euro 250 throttle body on my next conversion. I'm pretty sure that Ninja 300 parts can be used on a 250 with some modification. I seem to recall a video posted of a guy that did that but I don't have the link handy.
I need help programming mine for vz21 turbo on my 150cc scooter this kit programming is very hard to tune with.
+Pickle2drjetta I wouldn't know anything about the turbo, because I don't have one. I have read online that they are difficult to set up though. The Ninja 250 EFI conversion is fairly mature at this point so the ECU doesn't usually require additional programming, but you can if you want to.
im looking for the bracket CAD file i got a used kit that powers up from ebay and it is also a California bike 2007 ninja 250. carbs are all clogged up and barely idles on full choke. its my only carbed vehicle and i miss riding it but i hate the warm up times and having to clean the carbs every year.
I put the link above in the description.
@@n4mwd thank you very much looking forward to the conversion i like the single package idea a lot.
Unfortunately, the single package idea didn't work out. The fuel pump, when located behind the engine, got too hot and lost prime. I moved it to the side with the new mount and it did much better, but still wasn't perfect.
does anyone know where or who I can make a conversion kit for my Jet Board? The jet board motor is much different and need an expert.
Thank you...
Hi we're i can find those inyector but i wan for xt 600e very Nice vídeo
Ecotrons used to sell generic kits, but they are very hard to install.
@@n4mwd thanks Man i have some experience with inyector but i have a proyect with this motorcicle a Will show You wen i finished
Any update on how you like the efi?
It started failing about 5 years ago. There is no practical way to diagnose it with the EFI controller. So the bike has been sitting until I have time to figure it all out.
@@statendrei5 Me too. The problem is intermittent so the problem is next to impossible to diagnose without an EFI controller that can self diagnose or at least provide reasonable logs. To fix it I will have to design a new EFI controller that has the proper diagnostic capabilities.
whats the MPG difference between ECO and RICH modes?
With ECO I am seeing about 60-65 mpg. That is comparable with carbs with my riding style. I tried RICH one time, but I didn't see any significant decrease. It all depends on how you have your variables set up in the tables.
My riding style is very aggressive, high rpms, and fast takeoffs, also trying to get into stunting, would you advise for me to not even waste my time with the O2 sensors untill i absolutely need them?
Rusty Fox The O2 sensors make the initial programming easier, that is, you don't have to program anything, but it is not impossible to run without them if you don't mind tinkering with your maps for hours on end. Not using O2 sensors can simplify mechanical installation because there wouldn't be any welding required. So if welding the sensors in is a major problem, then you can run without them in RICH mode.
@@EmoFox9 I'm sure you've long since figured this out, but use the o2 sensor. Take it to a welding shop and have them do it if necessary, but especially if youre not a pro at tuning dont try tuning it without o2.
GREAT VIEDO!! You could try: Permatex 85420 for the thread sealant. I don't think you can get Hylomar any longer which is what I would normally recommend.
I am told that Permatex purchased the Hylomar company and came out with the 85420 which is essentially the same product or at least heavily based on it. I don't know if it will work or not, but it must be both gasoline and alcohol resistant.
n4mwd According to the Permatex website (trimmed down description) it is resistant to fuel and Ethanol: With an operating temperature range of -60° to 500°F (-50° to 260°C), this compound resists common engine fluids, including oil, gasoline, ethanol, water and anti-freeze and prevents contamination from moisture and dust. - See more at: www.permatex.com/products-2/product-categories/gasketing/gasket-sealants/permatex-permashield-fuel-resistant-gasket-dressing-flange-sealant-detail#sthash.I9HHAMFH.dpuf
How do you know you are low on fuel? (just pop the fuel cover to check you level)
On the pregen I usually just fill up at 200 miles and set the trip meter with each visit to the gas station. The newgen and 300 have fuel gauges.
n4mwd
I have a classic 250r. How is the system working now you been running it for over a year (besides the fuel pump problem)? Did you get it professionally tuned? If not would you consider it? Thanks
sammydag I'm not sure if it can be professionally tuned. I'm not entirely sure if the software used by the kit is compatible with that the professional guys expect. Its free, and a lot of guys tuned it themselves with no problem. To be honest, I haven't gotten in to the programming of the kit myself because it worked good enough out of the box - but there is definitely room for improvement in some areas. Out of the box, mine had more power at the low end but less power at the top. Some guys have been able to adjust the programming on theirs to increase the power on the top end to about equal to the carbs. There's no need for compromise on the kit because its programmable - so those guys ended up with more low end power and the same high end power as the carbs.
I did have a vapor lock issue with mine and I haven't had a chance to move the fuel pump to the side so that its in the air stream. Factory EFI bikes have the pump in the tank so that it stays cool, but they don't have full circulation once it leaves. Thus the factory bikes also suffer from vapor lock on occasion.
How much are thies kits?
I think they were about $1000 last I checked and I don't think they are supported any more. Its not a good option right now given the availability of Ninja 300-400 factory EFi bikes.
Are far as the efi it works flawless I emailed them and the just told me to turn up the global enrichment but that wonk help for different amounts of boost at different rpm I was wondering how to do that so everything will jive and you seem like the only person I could find anywhere with any type of knowledge about this system. Everything is all hooked up and good to go they sent me the correct kit with the bigger injector to supply enough fuel. It will not run very well on Eco mode only rich
+Pickle2drjetta I agree. You are going to need to go to the maps and tinker with them. Depending on the version, you might be able to save the existing maps to a file and then edit them there and then reload from the file. That way you can keep track of what works and what doesn't. Global enrichment isn't going to work.
what did you pay for the kit?
About $500 back around 2011.
i have bashan 200 1cylinder where can i buy efi kit for cheapest
You can email ecotrons and see if they have anything compatible. If not, they might have something you can make to work, but it will require a lot of fiddling.
but to witch email
He's not a witch, he's Chinese. You can probably get ahold of him through his website ecotrons dot com.
sry but my english is not perfect but im 15 and im searching beacouse i need this for races carb is not enaught now
and i need something i can map like car s i can run E85
can i get them prints?
What prints?
I found your video interesting and informative. However I was expecting at least a little excitement in your voice when you started it up for the first time. You sounded so bored! lol
+Loren Husky More like tired. I had to replace the fuel pump recently and will be posting a follow up video soon.
can't believe it fired right up immediately. Like... when does that ever happen to anyone. I've seen a few efi retro fit kits and they seem like junk or they have problems galore with the. Surely they can't be this complicated in 2018.
Bad practice to connect un-fused wires to battery. Inline fuse in hot lead at battery is cheap insurance.
I didn't k kw Ron Swanson rode a ninja. Interesting
Fuck that each get you a racing ecu and a vz21 and then you'll be making real horsepower
If anyone would like to see how I installed my new fuel pump, I have a new video here:
+n4mwd I would love to see this video, but when I clicked on it, it said it was listed as 'private'and therefore I couldn't watch it :(
+gutterziswin After I posted the video, it became obvious that it was a bad design so I pulled the video. I'm currently working on a new way too install it. I hope to have have a new video soon.
+n4mwd I think there may be a problem with the new fuel pump. I got it to work and maintain pressure at idle, but it doesn't produce enough volume under hard acceleration. I am going to try to contact Matt at Ecotrons about it.
+n4mwd I found that the problem was that the new pump has significantly greater suction than the old pump. The flow restriction caused by the quick disconnects caused a partial vapor lock. The bottom line is that the quick disconnects had to go and were replaced with a ball valve. I hope to have a new video soon.
ah ha....see, that is all I have seen is problems problems with these aftermarket efi kits. How does it work at the factory but not if you put it in a box separately?
now there fuel injected from factory anyway lol
The 250 factory EFI is not available in the US. last I heard. You could probably import enough EU parts to make a Newgen work though. Pregens like this one have to be hand modified.
@@n4mwd oh ok i did not know that thanks for the info mate
@@n4mwd I wonder if someone could import the replacement components for the factory EFI for a 2012 model...
@@NeoIsrafil I think people were using parts from ninja 300's to make the 2012 250's into EFI. A lot of salvage parts can be bought off ebay.