Big Bible Error! Gold Can Rust?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- 🙏 DONATE: inspiringphilo...
A common objection is that James 5 claims that gold and silver can rust, but is this what James said?
PATREON: / inspiringphilosophy
RUclips MEMBERSHIP: / @inspiringphilosophy
LOCALS: inspiringphilo...
MERCH: michaelinsprin...
If people critique the bible like this, I expect them to react to "You are rude, as if your heart is as hard as a stone" with "Urmmm aksually hearts aren't made of shtone ☝️🤓"
🤓
Don't give them any bright ideas.
You're cold hearted, dude.
"Umm akchually, hearts cannot be cold and continue to be alive, as they require heat, so maintaining homeostasis is vital 🤓🤓🤓"
It's not even a joke, I already saw a Spanish atheist meme using that "argument". 😵💫😭🤣🤣🤣
"Wouldn't one expect the supreme intelligence behind the creation of the universe to be logical and precise? I'd expect a supreme intelligence, as such, to *utilize* language in a way that there would be no *utilization* of infererior communication devices *such* *as* anecdotes or silly metaphors that you mere Humans *utilize* in your mundane ramblings amongst your ape-like selves." - 🤓
"that metaphor fell flat"
"Lol, metaphors arent affected by gravity, u so ignorant!"
"My phone battery crapped out."
People in 2,000 years: "This guy thought batteries pooped. He was so dumb."
If a phone's battery crapped out that doesn't mean it defecated, it means that it died.
If a phone's battery died that doesn't mean it underwent the biological process of death, it means that it ran out of charge.
Someone playing the skeptic and being hyper-critical of a text doesn't do anything to discredit the text.
@@LawlessNatethat was the joke brother thanks for explaining it
@@LawlessNateI thought you were expanding the joke. I kept waiting for the punchline...
Now I am absolutely and utterly dissatisfied😅😅
@@lordfishsticksthegreat829 I was expanding on the concept he presented.
Lol
Matthew 13 13 , This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
That's like saying "Our society is rotten" it's not literally people rotting. Or "Brain Rot Content"
I can't believe this is a real contention
Exactly
Tell the nitpickers that they do actually tarnish. They will site umpurites in them do. Then say, Exactly, thus the silver and gold is made lesser because of it.
this is easily one of the contradictions of all time
I suspect that they are mocking those that insist Genesis must be taken as literal scientific fact.
@@PremiumBlank Pure gold won't tarnish, but pure silver reacts with sulfur in the air and becomes coated with a silver sulfide film.
IP: The metaphor went over your head
Bible critics: Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are too fast, I would catch it
They're also invisible if they move very very slowly
Love the Guardians of the Galaxy reference 🤣
It's too bad "raining cats and dogs" wasn't around for the Noah discourse. Imagine the objections for that.
😂😂 U SEEE !
No problem, as long as it was raining🐈🐈⬛ and 🦮🐕🦺.
☁️☁️☁️ ☁️☁️☁️
🐕 🐈
🐕
🐈
🐈
🐕
“”b-but Michael, Ur just making excuses!! My erroneous interpretation right because the Bible must be wrong!!””
Anyone who has owned silver and gold jewelry can tell you that these do take on a corroded patina when not taken care of. That’s why we have to “polish the silver” every holiday, and why there are gold and silver jewelry cleaning solutions. It’s not “rust” but it is ugly.
May i ask why polishing silver and gold must be done every holiday? Why not every other day?
@@darnit1944because on holidays you have guests over and need to display thr silverware. On a regular day it's better to use something less pricy.
^Also polishing is different from cleaning.
The original commenter went from speaking about jewelry to speaking about eating utensils, and serving dishes used for formal occasions. Such dishes are only brought out for use a few times a year or once a year for a very special holiday or life event. They're then cleaned after their use and then wrapped and put safely in storage. Because silver naturally will tarnish because of exposure to oxygen it needs to be polished before its next use.
@@bufficliff8978
Soo...
Technically...
Exposure to oxygen...
If given enough time will break down into component parts?
@@nathanielalderson9111 Yes. basically, most metals want to return to being an ore so given enough time it will break down. I always use the James quote when I start a talk about cleaning silver (I am a restorer) Most gold is alloyed with another metal, usually silver to give it strength as pure, 24 carat gold is too soft. Hence 18ct, 15ct etc.
Bible critics when figures of speech exist, and aren't purely exclusive to modern society
Yeah, I think Atheist stick with fundamentalist way to view the Bible and think every Christian believes that. Why I think that is because the amount of times I have to explain what poetry is to someone is stupid.
@russellcash6088 pop atheist apologist don't anything above fundamentalist theology, so it makes sense
Metaphors aside, Roman coinage was also debased at many points in history. A regular person could have come across a lot of coinage that showed signs of tarnish, decay, or "rust," that demonstrated a currency that should be worth more is now proven to be worth less by corrosion.
"Gold doesn't rust"
Yes, that's the point.
That's why it's so terrifying.
At least that's how I understand the verse.
Cool profile pic!❤
@JesusWillRescue She's an Original Character for a story idea of mine.
There are people that actually think this is an error? That's pretty sad.
If I say that my wife is the sunshine of my life, that must mean that she is a stream of photons being emitted from a gigantic hydrogen fusion reactor in outer space.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson will bust through your door and say "NO SHE ISN'T!! THE SUN IS A STAR NOT A PERSON"
I mean, you married her for a reason. I'd say that being the literal sun is a good one.
Me: Let's see what sceptics are doing this time.
IP *Quotes the passage that sceptics are complaining about*
Me: Yep, it's a metaphor.
People are so skeptical on the Bible but are never skeptical on what they’re biased to
The fact that you showed me the verse and I immediately recognized it as a metaphor made me laugh.
Skeptics are getting desperate.
As an agnostic, it's obviously metaphorical. And given that gold and silver doesn't rot it's a terrifying one.
Agreed, just want to add. Silver tarnish is corrosion, and Gold is rarely pure 24 karats containing other elements that can degrade over time, true best to store up where there is no rust, vermin or thieves.
plus people in ancient times were already knowledgeable about gold not rusting, that one of the reasons gold was used to represent and storing wealth
Impure gold and silver will tarnish though.
Pure silver will tarnish too.
Gold can also can dissolve if pure. Corrosion apparently is supposed to refer to any oxidation process. It will not do that if pure. Nitric acid and hydrochloric acid will break it down though. Probably wouldn’t occur naturally.
@@chickenmonger123 That's not rusting or tarnishing, though.
@@LawlessNate Yes it is. Read his comment again.
Love the videos IP keep it up ❤
Wow, people really scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one 😂 Keep up the great work, IP!
1:05 “Fun fact:” corrosion by oxidation is literally slow-motion burning. I don’t ascribe any theological significance to this point, just a bit of trivia.
People seem to think that because ancient people didn't know the earth revolved around the sun that they must have all been idiots. These people had gold! They had silver! They knew what these things were! They knew what happened to them and what didn't!! Sheer chronological arrogance; but guess who the dumb one is in this case?!?!
Sigh while holding a coffee mug intensifies.
Always first ask, "Would this writer have known better?" If the answer is "No," it's probably not meant the way you think it is. (People back then were exposed to metals all the time. I don't think being low class would change that.)
The fact that you have to explain what is clearly a figure of speech demonstrates just how desperate some people really are.
I think it's more of not having been taught how to think mixed with autism.
@@bufficliff8978 ???
I think it’s simpler just to assume he was referring to mixed gold objects since pure gold is seldom used
I always start a talk about silver cleaning with the James quotation. He would have known that silver tarnishes and gold alloyed with another metal will also tarnish. 'Rust' is technically only for Iron but everyone uses it for most metal tarnish and corrosion products.
People always throw out metaphorical language when reading the Bible🫠
But cLeArLY this is proof the bible is unscientific ☝️🤓
And then they use "it Metaphor" to tear apart the Torah
@@JonCrs10 And label fundamentalist anyone who disagrees with them.
Great video, and an excellent push back against naive literalism.
Exactly. When a play-by-play announcer at a baseball game says the catcher gunned down a runner trying to steal second base, I doubt anyone would take that literally (at least I hope not).
I don't think it is naivete. Its performative. These people don't seem to have any problems at all recognizing all manner of literary devices when it comes to any other body of literature.
DR FALK THE GOATTTTT!!!!
Merry Christmas IP!! 🎉🎉🎉
Very interesting, thanks IP!
Proverbs 23:5 "Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven." Money can't grow wings! Checkmate theists.
Very funny.
Also salt can't lose its saltiness. I think it's more clearly meant to say that "since you have rusted/lost your saltiness you weren't ever real gold or salt to begin with" - they are lukewarm - claiming to be rich, yet are poor (spiritually). It's a parable meant to inform those who understand it to repent and trust in Christ and not their own tarnished "riches" that aren't really riches at all - they just appear to be riches in their darkened eyes. It reminds me of Revelation 3:14-22.
If you need ideas for a new series I would love to watch and learn about everything we know about each individual apostle. This could be a series that has one short video on each of the apostles and just tells us all that we know about them. 😊
Gold and Silver DO tarnish over time. The impurities cause this.
Pure silver tarnishes.
Beautifully explained Mike ❤ God bless you 🙏
Gold jewelry can actually corrode because it's alloyed with other materials. This may have been what he was referring to. Egyptians started doing this in 1200 B.C. and it was noticeable and required repair when it happened. Even today, gold jewelry can have similar issues.
Love your videos man ❤ keep it up
Even if we do grant a literal interpretation of this phrase, impure gold and silver (which would have been common at the time of writing, since they lacked modern knowledge/methods and technologies to make completely pure gold/silver) does indeed tarnish with time, similar to how iron rusts, or copper oxidizes. It's why people polish their silverware, or gold jewelry to keep it shiny and pristine.
But this all ignores the fact that nitpicking the verbiage is completely misunderstanding the entire point of the verse, what message/point it's trying to get across.
"Do you love your family with all your heart?"
"Erm... ur heart isn't where love comes from 🤓"
"...answer my question."
it's so obviously an ironic statement, why on earth would someone living between mesopotamia and the mediterranean after 5000 bc think that gold was capable of rusting
"Actually when the government passes a massive spending bill it isn't literally using a printer to make more physical dollars so it's erroneous to say they're printing money."
We'd be *hard-pressed* to argue your point. 😁
@@petermadany2779 It's a mint metaphor, to coin a phrase.
Hi Michael Jones from InspiringPhilosophy, one of my Muslim friends believes they've proven that the claim to Muhammed being evil due to marrying Aisha is wrong. Please reply and I'll send you images of the discord conversation on whichever platform you prefer.
Hey IP! If you need a video idea I have a suggestion of a topic that personally I have a lot of trouble understanding. Could you please explain why the Biblical Canon is considered Scripture and Infallible. And why do the different churches have different canons? When I read the Bible sometimes I have doubts that some of those books should be considered scripture and I wonder why the other apostles didn’t write any books. It would be greatly appreciated if you would make a video on this topic. 😊
Gold will most certainly corroded depending on the alloy content. It's unlikely that James was talking about pure 24 karat gold.
Much gold of the time period was probably actually electrum.
Bonjour!!! 😉
Can you make more responses to Mindshift? I would love to see that 😁
If I call someone I love "sweetheart" that must mean their heart is literally sweet I guess
This... this is a joke, right?
This can't be a real issue to someone, right?
Meanwhile the books of proverbs, song of Solomon and eclessiastes in the Bible be like: "y'all gonna take us literally too? 🙄"😅
Gold at that time can rusted. 99,9% gold only invented in 19th century & 99,99% pure gold in 20th century.
Even if James is mistaken....it makes quite literally no difference on any level. Please don't tell me an atheist unironically used this as a critique...
In the mind if a 1st century layman, tarnish and corrosion would be put in the same cartegory as both, in the abscence of modern jewlery restoration, would effectively destroy it's value permanently.
Oh, you haven't seen "Aron Ra" making a spectacle of himself, have you....
I haven't heard this one specifically, but "um ackshually mustard isn't botanically a tree" made the atheist rounds a few months ago
I was told that is called a drash.
Silver does tarnish, which is not nearly as damaging as rust, but enough cleanings could reduce the value of silver objects. Gold can erode. When I visited the fountains and statues known as "Samson Tearing Apart the Jaws of the Lion" in Peterhof, St. Petersburg, Russia, I was confused as to why they needed to re-gild the statues since gold neither rusts nor tarnishes. The tour guide explained that the minerals in the water wore away the gold every few years. Even pure gold and silver can be damaged by the elements.
Yes it oxidize with other materials mix in
3:14 Say that again just the way you said it.
It may not be rust, but silver does tarnish. Plus, a metal getting oxidized is colloquially referred to as rusting, even if it's not iron turning into iron oxide.
But most importantly, yes it's a metaphor.
Silver doesn't get oxidized since it reacts with sulfur-containing gases, but I agree with your point.
@petermadany2779 thank you. I didn't realize that. I always thought tarnish was an oxide.
I have old silver sets and they do in fact corrode
That is not an intellectually honest critique. These people hate the Word so much that they have to level any critique they can, even when they are baseless.
clearly this guy doesn't understand metaphors
In James day, very little of the gold and silver would have been as consistent and refined as the gold and silver today. The impurities amalgamated with the precious metals would indeed show rust and corrosion.
His people understood him perfectly.
RUST is iron oxide. The other metals also oxidize. Never heard of tarnished silver? It’s covered with a layer of silver oxide. That’s why it needs to be polished. Oxidation is a real process. Almost every substance will oxidize.
I do wonder about impure silver or gold. Are there such alloys that do rust (and not just tarnish like silver)?
If so, James' statement would adhere to material science while still giving James a strong theological point (similar to that of Exegetical Commentary): what you thought was pure gold is in fact impure and will rust away.
This would also be a similar sentiment expressed elsewhere in the Bible: wealth can be easily stolen or lost (even if it can't rust) and is thus not as secure as you may think.
Also, does the Greek term even distinguish between rusting and tarnishing?
If you dilute silver or gold with some cheap metal such as copper, it would rust… I believe he is pointing out that the coins they used, being made of diluted gold and silver, were rusting and corroded. Anyone who looks at the economy of Rome during the time this letter was written would have known this.
IP will you ever do another historical argument for the Resurrection?
@ji8044 there is and it's on this channel
There can be three views actually, the metaphoric, the present tense literal, and the nonunderstanding confused version. Though in times passed pure precious medals could not corrode paluted or mixed metals can. Furthermore, in today's economy that was the replacement supposedly for such precious medals can also corrode not just thereself but the people who posses them. So like all scripture it's deeper and not restricted to time as we may treat it.. this is part of why everytime someone truly reads the text they find something new that is revealed to them..
I'm 17. I'm a believer. Last night, I was looking for videos on different translations of the Bible. Next thing I know, I find myself down a rabbit hole of videos by a guy named dan McClellan. Are the things he says true? How do I defend my faith? What if what he's saying is true? What do I do?
I've heard he is a Mormon which does seem to explains his channel.
Everybody be thinking they brilliant until the Creator of all reality is staring them in the eye. 😢
0% hermeneutics
0% leniency
I just want to add: Gold can become oxide (like rust) when exposed to oxygen plasma.
As a chemist, silver does oxidize (rust) naturally and the same goes for gold but with chemical reactions. So either he was a super smart chemist or God did lead him ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
This is NOT the meaning of corrosion here. The word corrode goes back to the Latin “corrodere”. Cor(expressing intensive force) + rodere “gnaw”. Which is perfect if you think about what Jesus said about how hell is full of weeping and gnashing of teeth. When we get lost we are caught in One of Satans devices to deceive which in turn begins “rusting,degrading,destroying and blinding our hearts to the Truth. In the end this world will perish. ” God is good! Christ is Lord.
You could also interpret the verse as saying that the rich people's wealth, by corroding, has proven itself not gold and silver but some other worthless metal. Like it's still metaphorical, but it's playing off of the knowledge that gold and silver don't corrode, not based on an ignorance of that fact
St. James was a fisherman lol.
This is one of the most ridiculous "errors" of all time. Pretty much all money in the known world was gold and silver (except for small change). Everyone had them, and every one of them knew it didn't rust. It'd be like me telling you that dollar bills rust!
-An Economist
It should be obvious to everyone that it's allegorical but in all fairness, Eastern Philosophy (i.e. Chinese Philosophy) is a lot more painfully obvious. An Eastern fortune cookie version would be like:
"He who chases treasures, loses himself along the way"
As soon as the verse was read I knew it was speaking metaphorically. I think whoever made this claim is just trying to find stuff.
People actually use this as a contradiction? Anyone with a speck of common sense should understand what James was ACTUALLY trying to say here.
What happens to gold when you leave it a sulphuric acid solution?
Silver does corode and tarnish. Gold rots away in a flesh eating acid
Silver does actually tarnish. More so nowadays due to sulfur levels in the air from the industrial revolution
Sulfur air pollution hasn't been much of a problem for years.
@ its still in the air though in higher levels
Silver does corrode (though quite slowly when compared to iron), when it reacts with sulphur. It'll turn black to form silver sulphide.
Gold doesn't corrode, but it can be dissolved in aqua regia (a mixture of nitric acid & hydrochloric acid).
TL;DR- Read Matthew 10:28
Can you do mark 16:18? Because the interpretations on this really confuse me.
This is really kind of a moot point.
Silver does corrode.
While pure gold is non-reactive, most jewelry is made from gold alloys which do corrode. Coins at the time of the Bible being written were also made from gold alloys, not pure gold. They too would have corroded as evidenced by the ancient coins that survive today.
Gold and silver can't rust, but it can tarnish
Can you please re post your video exposing the priest with all the false info. Or atleast make a video with similar info without calling him out? I appreciate all your videos, you’ve opened my eyes. God bless.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics is still going to effect them somehow, eventually.
would you make a video on Amun-Re. i see people all the time, my cousin included claimed that he is the reason we say Amen, so i’ve tried doing my own research but it would help tremendously if you could explain the validity of this.
These types of critiques and charges of biblical inaccuracies are silly because they imply that people didn’t know how things worked back then. Like they didn’t know gold doesn’t rust… like that’s not one of the inherently valuable properties of gold.
It’s similar to people saying they thought a virgin conceived because they didn’t know how babies were made. It’s meme level silliness.
Exactly, the modern contempt for the ancients has always irked me. That's the same thing that causes the "aliens had to have built this structure" trash you see thrown around.
@ Yup. I’ve been saying this regarding that subject for years. It’s very disrespectful and condescending to our ancestors to minimize their accomplishments especially the unimaginable cost many paid for those accomplishments.
More like it's them being disingenuous liars.
Hey Michael, I remember you making a video about a supposedly drown pharoh mentioned in the Qur'an. Can you link it for me? I can't find it on your channel.
When I hear skeptics make points like this it kind of disappoints me. Such trivial inconsequential critiques makes me think there are no serious and heavy critiques. Sometimes I think people want to take the "Top 500 reasons Christianity isn't true" route instead of understanding you only need one truly good reason not to believe in Christianty. If skeptics dropped lines of questioning like this I think it would be great so I can see the arguments they take the most serious or are the most consequential. I don't want to go through 500 arguments just to find 5 great ones to engage with.
Hi Man!
Would you be able to talk about Messiah 2030?
All the best
They can tarnish.
I think this is overthinking the writing. Gold and Silver items, especially during the time periods these books and letters were written, were almost never pure by modern standards.
The return of the king
I thought saltwater can corrode gold and silver though.
Also gold coins can lose its value by mixing it with lesser metals like copper. Which is a theological point also and a reoccurring theme.
I'm 17. Just started reading New Evidence That Demands a Verdict. Is it a good book to study from?
I understand ur a philosopher and not a Chemist. Depending on the purity of the Gold in question, it could most definitely rust and tarnish. People have used easily extractable metals for thousands of years to bind Gold, and to later purify the Gold. SILVER DOES INFACT TARNISH AND CORRODE.