SOUND BATTLE!!! B&W 702 S2 vs KEF R7 (4K HD Audio) And the winner is?
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- Опубликовано: 12 мар 2019
- Hifi Sound comparison between 2 connoisseur-grade Premium class Loudspeakers!
Associated equipment:
GOLD NOTE IS1000 Integrated Amplifier
DENON DCD-1600NE Super Audio cd Player
ORTOFON Reference SPK200 Speaker Cable
#SoundSommelier
#soundcomparison
#KEF 
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![If you can't hear this then you're not an audiophile [See description for link to followup video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/48PxwspDvrE/mqdefault.jpg)
I like both speakers. B&w is detail, forward and bright. I can hear all the instruments. KEF is more rhythmic and warm and I can enjoy the overall sound quality.
I think the S3 version of this will cover all cons of B&W 702 s2 at real listening. The detail presence and overall 3d effect of S3 will win KEFs.
And the winner is .....synergy with your audio equipment and room and, your own personal preference!!
Within the first couple of seconds, the kefs already won it for me. I mainly just prefer the treble of all kefs over all b&ws that I've heard so far. It simply sounds sweeter to me.
KEF bias there......the B&W's treble is far superior! I have no bias toward either brand....in fact I believe a lot of 'high end' speakers are over rated and over priced.....but hey, it feeds the ego's of the rich.
@@Dvw87 WTF? Music and sound quality is subjective mate so it's on the basis that I think the B&W's have far superior treble. Sheese! BTW, it's an opinion not fact. If you don't agree, fuck off.
@@stevemurrell6167 Oh man, that was a class A rant. Love it
@@andrewford80 Thanks.😀
B&W had a very clean bright sound as the KEF had a very clean warm sound. I'd go warm over bright.
It sound warm because mids are almost nonexistent
room doesn't seem ideal though
J Austin Your so right 👍
The KEFs sound great. I went with the 702s after comparing speakers at a local high end audio store. I think all thing considered, including build quality, we have been happy with the purchase. We all love to listen to a wide range of music and the speakers deliver.
Thank you for these kind of videos you are very helpful!!!
The difference is in the representation of the sound stage. I have a pair of these B&W’s and I personally listen to anything ranging from café del mar - chill out through to the carpenters pink Floyd queen and so forth. They always make me smile they are truly very good, but in this example I have to say I think the Kef’s appear more neutral or in some ways flat but I am in no way knocking them in fact in this example I’d go for the KEF’S but I guess the moral of this is to see them side by side using your own ears both are clearly very good, all I can add is in my living room the B&W sound more
Excellent battle, and you know what I appreciate too is you using a track that has a much more broad audience, glad you DIDN'T play elevator jazz or classical, not that there's anything wrong with those genre's. :)
Jazz or classical are WAY better than this if you are intelligent enough to understand
Winner......the first speakers.....which I ASSUME (no indication anywhere except for the video title!) were the B&W's. Second speakers sounded slightly veiled and less 'open'.
I love B&W's as well as KEF and own B&W's. But here I have to go with the R7. On first blush the 702's blow the KEF out of the water, they're just so lively. But I'm hearing more nuance in the relaxed presentation of the R7, as well as a more open and balanced sound overall. I'm hearing a bit more boxiness with the B&W's. Damn, I love that tweeter though, it just goes on forever! Can't go wrong with either if you got the $$$. But very different schools of thought.
This is a good comment.
I’m a b&w owner too and I would say that comparing short passages of the two directly I prefer the b&w, but if I listen to both for the entirety of the song I prefer the kef.
@@SlicedBread1001 Same boat. I have owned several incarnations of the 600 series, from bookshelf to the towers. Like both of you first pass the B&Ws, but in my ears KEFs were smoother more balanced. Little more midrange and bass with the B&W. I'd like to hear the KEF R11. That in my mind would be a more fair comparison to the 702 signatures. Really hard for me to break away from B&W's I always go back to them. Have some Klipsch Forte's and don't get me wrong, there outstanding (truly are) and to my ears there an audiophile level speaker. But I keep wanting to back to B&W's. KEF are tugging at me a little as well.
@@timh4886 coincidentally I have a pair of R7’s and PMC twenty5 23i’s at home which I’m demoing next to the b&w cm8’s.
I’ve not got to the kefs yet but the PMC’s are really nice
I have to go with B&W. It brings out all the details nicely. Although R7 is still a great pair.
i prefer the brightness of the B&W's, thanks for sharing
can I know the microphone you use for recording this? amazing the clarity
Volevo farvi i complimenti perché nonostante i limiti evidenti di youtube ecc.. si colgono comunque le differenze che ci sono tra i due diffusori e ci fanno capire sicuramente di più che le prove audio delle riviste dove i recensori danno la loro personalissima interpretazione che può essere molto diversa da quella di ciascuno di noi, tradotto: ascolta e giudica senza ascoltare gli altri in base ai tuoi gusti personali
These sound incredible through my $20 PC speakers.
And the sound is only $20
Wow! they both sound just like my nice GNP 2 way desk speakers I have on my computer!
KEF R7 more natural and sweet !
KEF for all day listening. B&W more punchy for entertaining
Hallo witch amplifier is good for the KEF R7 whith bass for chill out and deep house music ?
Thank you !
KEF for sure, more natural.
Not really.
Background is very clean.
More analog from it.
That's KEF.
@@johnnyquest6115 Yes really. The B&W 702 S2 measures pretty poorly for such an expensive speaker. And it sounds exactly how it measures. Exaggerated treble and uneven on and off axis performance.The time domain isn't that good either. The KEF measures better and is more neutral than the B&W.
@@vinniethegreat9645 Kef does have much better measurements -fact. But UniQ suffers from distortion at high playback levels the neodymium tiny tweeter heats up fairly quickly -(compare cooling area to say an Esotar or Wavecor tweeter for example and this has not been cured) -its physics -sure if you listen at modest levels but 100 db plus or large room then you can have problems -Stereoplay measured Kef Blade distortion at loud levels and very ordinary
for the vocal sound not so natural then B&W
Awesome song. Superb video.
Hi! Thank you for the review. May I ask what speakers should I go for a large long livingroom, around 60sqm, with big windows on one side. I’m not looking for loud auditions, but moderate to low, looking for that hifi sound, with nice bass even at the low volumes. Right now I have the Monitor Audio Silver 200 (6g) with Rega Elex-R. They are good, but not that hifi. Should I get the R7 or the R11? I’m also looking at the Sonus Faber Sonetto 3. Unfortunately I don’t have the budget to change the amp too, so I will stick for a while with the Elex-R. Any recommendations for the speakers will be much appreciated. Thank you all!
My choise KEF R7 !
Hello is the association gold note with kef a good choice? thank you
B&W always grabs attention with their top end. But for me , extended listening always ends up being to much and fatigue sets in. Between the two the Kef’s keep the ears wanting more.
Yes......wanting more detail. They actually sound veiled, not warm.
Yup, B&W has warm bass and a bit sharp highs...they sound better on short than long term
Yes agreed. I would prefer the kefs to be a smidge more open in the top end, but over all the balance of the kefs is easier to listen to.
@@SlicedBread1001 Spot on. Kept thinking am I the only one who heard that.
Well said! 🎶
I clearly notice (via a youtube video) on my receiver, that the B&W sounds way more "alive".
Hallo can you tell me if the Moon 250i has enough power to drive the KEF R7 ? Thank you !
Como as Sonus Faber Soneto 3(ou as Sonetto 5)se comportam frente as B&W 702S2 e KEF R7?
Depends which amp you are using them with as to which will be best for you. Bright B&W with bright sounding amp will be awful, as would the warm Kefs with a warm amp. Matching equipment is key!
Большое значение имеют личные предпочтения. Мне очень нравится строгое сочетание Arcam и KEF. Детальность звучания великолепная, хотя многим звук кажется скучным, недостаточно ярким. Ну и разумеется немаловажную роль играет жанр музыки: несмотря на то, что Arcam достаточно всеяден, под настроение переключаюсь на ламповый Cary
Hi...i have amp musical fidelity m5si...which of theese two would match better?
Ty
No such thing as a bright amp or a warm amp.
Both are great speakers. Guess it just depends on personal preference. I lean slightly KEF. But would be happy with either.
What's that crome front speaker, at the side?
Can the 702s2 be sufficiently powered by the primaluna evo400 integrated amp? (70w x 2) ?
702 S2 takes a bit of acclimatization because it's so good at separating out distinct sounds.
But then i'm biased as i'm getting the 702 on Friday !
A lot of good speakers (especially British ones) are like that; they have so much midrange information/ clarity that most people take a while to get used to that type of sound.
Beautiful :)
I like the detail and top end of the b&ws but prefer the more balanced kef with it's better midrange.
I like by far the first ones, BW?
The second lacks discrimination, at least through the chain that makes it
Her voice sounds clearer with the bowers but super harsh. They would be fatiguing over time.
100%. Reminds me a bit of the Klipsch horns. I need to hear these KEFs in person now.
@@TH-lo8mq That's the thing with the lively speakers. Often in demos that's what people gravitate towards first. But I've been there and done that. The KEF sounds so balanced in comparison. The R's are at the top of my short list.
Great comment lots of people go to B&Ws because of the super colored top end , very fatiguing on extended listening. Best sounding B&Ws I ve ever listened to. The PM 1s . No longer made. It’s a shame.
Fast. Really fast.
@soundsommelier, how do these compare to the Focal Aria 948s? I am at the verge of getting one of these... Thanks.
On my birthday released / published. I have those B&W 702/S2 now 1,5 year and will upgrade to 804, kef also heave a great sound but less divided compare to the B&W so I think that last ones are a nose length in front.
Bower's sounds a little too metallic and bright but it's bass appears to be tight and defined. KEFs were a little more laid back in the higher frequencies but in a way I like it. However, its bass is more boomy. anyone thinks the same way?
In anycase, definitely the KEFs for me.
Yes I’d agree.
I would worry about how the kefs bass behaves in room when closer to the walls. But from this I prefer kef
I love this channel
Should probably compare the R11s to the 702s. In terms of price point R7s are closer to 703s.
Agreed. R11 would probably have been a better match up?
I love them both for different reasons.
After going back and forth a dozen times I gotta say........B&W
BUT they are both pretty damn good.
i did the same and agree 100%
We will get at least an impression over a good headphone but I think the comparison has some drawbacks. At first, the R7 is more like the 703 since they both have 2 165mm woofers. Thus we see 2 packages which are even in a different price range. My impression is, that the volume level with R7 is slightly lower and we hear a more compressed sound. Or it is even more compressed. I do not know but it does not matter since it is "unfair" because of the 3 drivers on the B&W should produce more dynamics. The B&W sounds here more forward to me.
0:07 vs 3:48, at beginning, both speakers sound awesome...for the price point, I'll take the KEF.
I checked and it's 6000 usd for the B&W and 3600 usd for the KEF.
2:22 vs 6:01...nice violins and depth to compare from both.
I’d have go with the kef. What does it for me is the rendition of the violins. More body and harmonic richness and so more realistic.
Hallo KEF I have the LS50 WIRELESS in my mid size room and they are fantastic ! They are agile , vivid , musical , engaging , with clean bass . I have a suggestion for you if you want make a larger model than LS50 WIRELESS with larger cabinet and UNI Q 6.5 inch for more bass extension for large rooms and for those who listen electonic deep house music ! If you want to make them larger they will be magnificent ! I want a larger model for my large room ! Thank you !
SOLD 702 S2 ! thank you !!
Ah one of those old familiar David foster productions! Nice b&w but will be keeping my b&w matrix 802 series 3😀
The B&W have colored sound, whereas the Kef are more flat as speakers should be so you can really hear the original mastered recording as it was.
But the B&W have the soundstage presence. Yes, it is more revealing but it depends what you play through them.
Tbh they’re both coloured. All speakers are, especially at this price point.
Demoed both these speakers a short while ago and in person neither impressed me as neither sounded natural.
@@SlicedBread1001 yeah, you’re probably right.
Me choose second, it sound better than first
B&W 702 S2 my choice :)
WOW!!! Vanessa Williams!!! I haven't heard this song in many,many years!!!
Oh I would love to se you make a comparison test like the one you did with lov-fi. Not nessesary lo-fi but just to hear the difference between different styles of speaker.
Would also be Nice to se you compare Martin Logan esl electrostat to Dynaudio Evoce 50 to KEF R11 - to focus aria 348 - soo different from eachother.
If you dont have time for this your opinion is enough 😃 This is just a great channel.
It's really a personal choice, don't go by reviews, hear as many as you can before buying. There are so many good speakers in the under 5k to 3k range.
sympa le comparatif mais attention entre la video et le reel, puisqu'il faut faire un choix j'aurais une tendance a preferer les bw pour le coté live et sa largeur de scene qui prend l'espace ,un peu plus rentre dedans aussi, sur les kef le son est plus doux un peu sage à mon gout avec le medium legerement en retrait, l'ecoute semble moins fatiguante sur de longue session mais j'aurais bien aimé etre dans la piece lors de ce duel ;)) merci pour la video
Âm thanh B&W sáng hơn. Nhưng cả 2 điều tuyệt vời. Cảm ơn bạn đã cho chúng tôi những phút giây thật hạnh phúc
Nhieu nguoi chon KEF qua nhi. Ma KEF thi re hon kha nhieu so voi B&W. So với giá tiền thì mình chọn KEF. Nhìn đẹp và ngầu hơn luôn :-)
B&W bright sounding, KEF emphasis on the s sounds of the voice, not as bright as B&W
Can’t wait for my KEF R7s to arrive...
What amp are you going with? I'm thinking of buying them also and dont know what amp to buy.
B&W more dynamic to me, KEF more flat, but doesn't mean it lacks details.
B&W has an exaggerated treble response. It has a big bump/suck out at 5khz depending on vertical tweeter axis. It honestly doesn’t measure very well for a $4500 usd speaker. The KEF is cheaper has better measurements and a more neutral sound. Not knocking the B&W but not sure why you would pick it over the KEF. It really isn’t even close the KEF is the better speaker and $600 usd less.
@@vinniethegreat9645 Yes, I agree that the B&W did sound overwhelming and bright. Not too sure if its the newer materials they use on their drivers. I still prefer their older stuffs, those with yellow iconic Kevlar cones. ;)
@@vinniethegreat9645 The B&Ws -NEED- room treatment (they always do), with the tweeter on top the way it is it can get way outta hand (heard them in real life, where the room/tweeter/angry gods of acoustics thing was worse than here, but it is still very much here...) and the KEF manages seemingly not anger the room acoustics by not trying to make their tweeter an omnipole...
I use an old pair of B&W 802 s2, which sound better to me than the new B&W sound. If I was to purchase a new pair of speakers it would be KEF with its more laid back East coast sound. The B&W speakers might capture your immediate attention, but ultimately they would become too fatiguing and in your face sounding to truly enjoy. Sometimes less is more.
I was able to listen to B&W 702’s vs KEF R11 yesterday (both on sale at same price $2399, each) and, to my ears, the B&W were superior in every piece we listened to…and by a lot, actually. Currently, I own Paradigm Reference speakers and they are excellent. B&W does have a very different sound which is compelling, but when I got home and played the same pieces on my system I simply couldn’t hear such a difference to warrant spending the money. For what it’s worth, in a blind test I think it would be impossible to tell the difference between my 20 year old Paradigm speakers and the new KEF R11s.
You have to be careful making these type of comparisons comments because when you go home and listen to your speakers your mind and your ears quickly make the adjustment back to what you are use to and yes money has is a huge factor as well.
The proper comparison is listening to all three at once, through maybe a switch box or better yet individually in the same acoustic environment and recording the sound, putting what you heard onto a computer and then playing back each one.
The computer won’t lie to you about the music it just plays the music and you decide, but unless one speaker really did something truly different, like had way more bass or treble, your brain will quickly forget and switch back to what you are listening to at that time and if money is a factor, your brain will quickly reason you out of it.
Dealers know this and the best ones that you have built up a relationship with will let you do a home trial because they know that there is a high percentage of times that you will buy the products or tell them to charge your credit card from home after listening in your personal environment, which is why they ask you a bunch of questions first about what equipment you are pairing with, the type of music that you listen to and then they do the demo in their show room to gauge your response before the home trial. The home trial is the icing on the cake.
@@sidvicious3129 thank you for taking the time to respond. I appreciate each point you make.
reading the comments of these videos show why you should audition any speakers you want to buy instead of reviews and pricetags. Audio is the balance of science and art.
100% correct...and most importantly....YOUR OWN EARS lol. I have always felt that someone telling me that "this sounds better than this" as statement of fact is like telling me I should enjoy eating their favorite dish more than my favorite dish because it's a statement of "FACT" that their dish taste better lol. With just about any other of our senses we accept them as being total subjective, but some reason when it comes to hearing music/sound waves...we KNOW what each person should like lol?
Both had their signatures in their sound and it's so easy to distinguish. Somehow sound room for KEF in alto range sound is better, I miss some linear part of the in baritone echo in KEF when that is in B&W. mun... I'll confess my headphone is not so good, so it's unfair to make a judge for me.
Is there a 702 S3 vs R11 somewhere as well?
Which set playing first?
Clearly Bowers. The clarity and fidelity is supreme. KEF is playing throug a dirty cloth
You are old already ;)
kefs are the smoothest speakers on the market. if you're a fan of klipsch or coming from the perspective of Atmos movie theaters they may sound too subdued but they're just really neutral and smooth speakers you can listen to all day and make out all the most subtle details.
something you can't really get from these videos is the major advantage kef has, the Uni Q array which creates the most holographic sound stage.
KEF R7, very pleasant sound, bravo! The B&W sound to me somehow ''boxy'', I don't sense the peace and freedom of sound that the KEF provides...
Please! Faz uma comparação com as Sonus Faber Sonetto 3 e as KEF R7. Valeu!!!
The Key R7s sounded more recessed like the singer was singing from the back of the stage. The B&Ws sounded more up front and sounded more life-like. Little brighter but better, clearer sound.
I've owned both of the speakers and I (and all of my friends and family), can confidently say the KEF absolutely blow the B&Ws out of the water. It's not even close. By comparison, the B&W's sound like they are drowning in mud.
@@thetrumanshow4791 i disagree completly b&w sounds fantastic
@@thetrumanshow4791 Hahaha, an obvious B&W hater!!! Well, keep hating if that’s what makes you feel good…”CAPISCE!”
@@ricardogulpe6328 The R7 in walnut sounds way better than the 702 - just ask any wife:). I own 2 home theaters with B&W speakers but if I purchased a new speaker it would be the R7 and R3 in walnut with the rose gold woofers. The best looking speakers out there for the money.
@@ricardogulpe6328 to me, R7 sounds better in rock music, it depends on the genre. Classic music sounds clearer and better in B&W 702
In the USA the KEF R11 is only $500 more than the B&W 702 S2's. So it's an easy choice. KEF R11.
100x prettier too rather than an ugly tweeter looking like a rat 🐀 on top of a speaker.
Здравствуйте почему у вас часто источник DCD Denon. Считаете это хороший источник
Clearly the B&W.
b&w for me
I love my 702 S2 now but it was a hard way! The problem for most of us are room modes. If you can get rid of them, the 702 S2 will sound sweet.
Bowers always make speakers you have to work with but it's worth the effort. Got my 702's a few weeks ago and they are an amazing set of speakers. Got a great deal because the 702s3's are coming out
Listened using Sony WH-1000XM2 headphones. The BDubs felt like a little too punchy in the mids and bass, whereas the KEF's seemed warmer and much smoother with the vocals. I'm a KEF man, but I'd be happy with either pair, (great British sound engineering in both). Of course, get them both in a room and listen to them live they both will sound much different/better than on RUclips with a set of headphones, LOL.
B&W "fan" & owner but yep the KEFs win this 1 having said that this is not the music I'd listen too. Likely the B&Ws would suit my choice of music.
Shocked I preferred the more spacious, wider, more detailed and dynamic B & W! Soundstage was crazy good as well. I don’t hear what the Kef fans are hearing. B & W is the winner by a lot.
Agree! Deeper bass sound more open
it depends on what amp and pre amp is running the speakers
KEF the king of speakers.KEF is warm and smooth.
That’s for the video, but how you think this RUclips-based comparison shows anything substantial is beyond me?! I own the 702 S2s and they sound phenomenal. I’m sure the KEFs sounds great too, but auditioning from a RUclips video means that you’re listening to the voicing of the speakers with the room, mic, mic preamp, and listening headphones acting as filters. To that, add psychoacoustic audio compression.That’s way too many variables which could alter the intended sound quality. Speaking to the large number of people referring to the B&Ws as “too forward” or “bright”, I assure you than when properly set up, they sound incredibly smooth and effortlessly revealing. The new midrange driver is amazing with female vocals, piano, etc. I owned KEF UNI-Qs in the 90s and ironically the issue I had with them was that their high-end was overly bright and somewhat harsh sounding. How times have changed.
but even with all this variables, which are the same for both boxes, I would choose B&W
B&Ws are transparent and pure, Kefs rolled off on highs and dark
Bowers Bowers Bowers. Though I can see why people like the Kef. At first the Bowers sound threw me off a bit because their treble is so forward and the bass is not overdone but I grew to like it pretty quickly because it was so smooth. Much better than the 6 series IMO. The Kef sounds like the Kef I've known over the years. A bit more laid back....probably not going to enjoy classic rock on it as much as other speakers. Both great speakers but if I have my druthers ...the 702 S2 will be rocking out tunes in my home in a year or so.
If you don't toe in the B&W speaker, it will sound more neutral in the best listening position.
B&W 702S much clean and wider sound! But kEF much sweet and lovely voice ! both good! For me :I like KEF R7 for soft song and Jazz music...B&W For the Rock music and movie sound
Just ordered kef r7. Post listening here
Awesome
Kef is more natural/neutral sounding, while the B&W is more colored/brighter on the (high mids/treble) top end.
The B&W's bright highs over shadows the bass making the bass sound less prominent while the Kefs natural/neutral top end makes the bass sound more prominent due to the frequency being more balanced.
This is reason why there are so many brands... Everyone has it's personality. As i can see some people prefer a brand or other. I prefer sound from Dali. I found it special. Good luck to everyone who like B&W and KEF
I liked the first one best. For a trial song try Walking on the Moon by The Yuri Honing Trio on the album Star Tracks, circa 1996/97.
Very nice track! And wonderful tenor sax (I’m a beginner tenor sax player) Thanks for suggestion 👍
@@SoundSommelier I enjoy your videos. Thank You!
Would you make some multiple speakers test on the same song,please ??? !!!I never heard ELAC VIELA 409 vs B&W 804 D3 (or others B&W) !!!
If you think the 702 S2 is bright, just take a listen to the 804 D3. I was able to compare them, as well as the KEF R11 today at a dealer, and I could not stand to live with the 804 because it is just so bright. The R11 is not clear enough. The 702 is between those two in brightness/clarity and I would have picked the 702.
Can equalizer fix ‘too bright’ ? Thks recently bought 704 s2
Kef for me, just much more cleaner and natural. And if you were to compare the R11 to these B&W it would be a better battle because frequency response is the same on R11 and B&W.
有点不公平，B&W702 S2是7系列的旗舰型号，而KEF R7只是是R系列的中级型号，要对比应该选和B&W702 S2同等级的KEF R11来对比，对于这次的对比我觉得B&W702 S2的声音更饱满 更厚 更结实，KEF R7声音更平衡中性，全频的衔接更平顺，动态更宽，人声更灵活，结像更清晰一点，声音更自然，但声音太清淡了，客观的说B&W702 S2和KEF R7各有各的风格。
Ваш коммент наиболее правдив , неоспоримо . .
اتفق معك جداً.كان يجب المقارنة مع الR11. شخصياً افضل ال B&W عن حيادية الKef.
One is studio sound , The other is stage sound. I choose 0ne in high sensitivity , low impedance. which one was?
I vote the 2nd because it has much warm and rich sound
what the fuck loll b&w eat them FAR AWAY
B&W, made in China ! Can't trust b & W components .
kef also made in china ;)
high end kef and b&w are made in uk... kef start made shit long time ago after they sell their compagny... b&w its recent that produce in china they lost cost model... they was always a british conpagny put these day the economy change and everything now is made in china for cost production... high end b&w are 110% made in uk... not the case of kef they put chinesse stuff in they high end stuff... and how about Q kef speaker who sound like an old fart
also chineese production is not as bad as we think... in the past yes it was... but china produce 80% of things
Kef is one of the few manufacturers that publish the frequency response (on and off axis) of their speakers. The R series measure exceptionally well. Guess if B&W does... answer to who is the winner is straight forward.
It's not easy
So surprising how different two premium speakers sound! They should be closer, high quality systems must sound similar I would say, otherwise high fidelity to what?
Both are great, my choise is Kef.
Listening B&W 70 S2 with B&W C2 earphones, makes me no doubt which one should I choose..
The KEF’s?
@@faizm5607 The KEF's.