Framer is still at very early stage, once you learn Webflow there's no way going back. Also Webflow helped me to learn HTML & CSS in visual way, now I am able to understand the basics and because of that I was able to learn HTML and CSS now just Webflow. Now I am learning JS to ramp up my Webflow game. But I'd love to see Framer grow and compete against Webflow because competition forces companies to listen community and make changes on regular basis. Webflow is also changing Wordpress and I'm loving this growth of NoCode tools. Although I still believe that learning to code is really important as it enhances the problem solving.
I like this perspective, Pratik!! Webflow is a great tool, but I truly feel that the UX isn't optimised for creativity since it has so many technical thresholds. we'll have to see what happens, exciting future for designers nonetheless! 🤩
I think webflow is good option for most business owners. Still when I try it, it feels like a step back from modern web dev. I have to manage styles directly, rather than create and use components. I don't have version control. Lots of magic in the interface. Websites made it are fine until you do some animations and insane effects and it becomes slow. Also I have an impression that if you really want to customize your website in gets too complicated that you might as well just use html+css I am still undecided if its worth diving to webflow. Can you address my concerns? Also do you have experience with client-firs by finsweet? How good is it?
@@kdme You can definitely create component on Webflow, to manage the style you need create a class which can be reused as well. It does have version control both manual automatic but its very limited as of now. It doesn't get complicated at all, instead it has made complicated process much simpler. Yes it is not like Elementor or Wix where you get premade pages or components (although you can get that too here) Webflow is modern and intuitive but you need to be well versed with basics of Frontend Dev to be able to use it to the fullest. And, no Webflow animations doesn't makes the website slow at all. At lease I've never encountered this issue yet.
@@kdme You are simply not the target client. A more advanced web designer would see Webflow vs Wix the same way as you are seeing Web dev vs Webflow. The biggest issue is the cost, which directly related to the scale of the clients and the complexity of the project.
I really want this competition to beef up. Man Webflow is making their services so expensive for people in third world countries like me to work. Because I can’t afford it.
I agree. I'm from brazil and it is ridiculous the price that they charge for having the option to change the website domain. You need to pay the "plan", the custom domain and even a fee for each website.
@@tegathemenace I don’t want to be limited to two projects. I would like it to be affordable so someone like me can afford it for more projects that makes money. I am not talking about the free one.
Looked into it, webflow is still best for me as I am already a dev. Framer looks cool though and has people who would benefit more from that than webflow for sure! I am more concerned with creating something where I can extract the code as a static website I can then make dynamic inside other cms types. Ultimately if you want to be freelance web professional.. best not avoid the tech and dynamics of how the web works.. i.e. box model , flex, grid and etc... a more intuitive interface might not be best for now.. you can use a package optimised for creativity, such as figma.. maybe.. as the design stage.
Tbh, I'll forever use Webflow because of code export. Most websites are more than fine being simply static, this is where webflow is simply golden! They should dial down with the pricing though...
I think webflow is better positioned to adapt to low-code webapps, not just static websites. Webflow are now releasing a feature where you can write react code in the GUI bullt webflow pages and make them perform like an industry level webapp such as facebook etc. I'm definitely sticking with webflow (graphic designer, frontend developer who utilizes low-code and coded methodolies)
The answer for me has always been Elementor... I can basically build a SaaS product with Elementor. Others can be used for landing page and mini blogs.
I dont like Elementor much, Webflow feels like Vanilla whereas in Elementor one just drag and drop premade components. IDK what's going on Elementor rn because I've left using it years ago. Maybe I'll dive again.
@@theMr.K Bricks Builder with Custom Post Types, Custom Content Types and Custom Fields for me... I can't imagine being tied to a platform. WordPress gives so much freedom, I can literally build a replica of Facebook, RUclips, Twitter, Instagram, Spotify, Amazon etc. The WordPress REST API allows you to create apps of all kinds while using WordPress as your backend, the sky is the limit.
Framer is great, building in react is great. But they force the user to use custom css within styled components rather than stylesheets. There's some limited custom code in the premium settings but that means a user has to pay before they can see if their design even works.
you’re free to create your own custom components and code overrides without the premium plan, that’s usually what I do… but yes, for site wide custom code you need a paid plan. I haven’t needed it so far though!! 😃
As a web developer, i think that The future is being able to design and code at the same time. By the time you finish you should have a fully functional website/webapp. Designer handing over to developer is garbage flow. No designer or developer wants to go through that.
Designers are not leaving Webflow. We're expanding our toolbox. Clickbait titles are so stupid, like: "The Webflow Killer". The only thing that will kill Webflow is their VC pulling all funding. But the likelihood of that is so slim. They have a higher chance of being acquired by Adobe to replace Dreamweaver, than be killed by Framer. Last note: I love using Framer, it has some fantastic features that Webflow doesn't, but they've had to pivot their product so many times because of competition. They used to compete with Figma, till they gave up. Who knows if they'll pivot again? Webflow is a powerhouse, especially when combined with Wized, Memberstack, or Xano. You can't get that yet with Framer, and who knows if you ever will.
totally see what you're saying, the title is for sure shaped to spark people's interest and get the click - but I was using Webflow myself and left because of the reasons I stated. 😃 Webflow is great, and with Framer in the mix, they'll be forced to become even better. win-win!
@@ARNBNDL it's taking a company public. Initial public offering. Doing so would dramatically increase the value and future security of WebFlow. Which would be in contrast to it being acquired privately by a company like Adobe.
personally I think it's great to know and it's helped me a lot in my design career. with that said, I think the future will look a lot different with all the new tools at our hands 😃
I think its just that writing css is a pain in the ass all the time. I would say I understand it fairly well but I just hate writing it. I used tailwind for a while and that it self made it way better.
can you make a video on how to deliver a website to a client in framer? i want to offer that service but i think the domain part actually is kinda confusing
How so? Why? I'm looking to start web design and need the best no code option. Why does Framer feel less solid to you. Please share your experience as I need to make a decision quickly.
@@eingoluqif you are familiar with figma then starting up with framer would be easier. But definitely explore webflow aside, then also learn basics of code. It will unlock more possibilities for you.
My issue with Webflow is they charge a lot of money which is fine, but they are missing so many vital features. And when the community ask for something it takes years to get something so basic. Even there support is terrible and when you pay for the most expensive package you still do not get a number to call.
My main issue with Webflow is not that you need to understand HTML, CSS and JS to work with it, but the fact that you need to work with the complexity of Webflow itself on top of the aforementioned technologies along with it's terrible pricing. I tried using Webflow but when I realized that I preferred to go back to pure code instead. The time that I was going to be wasting trying to understand how to circumvent Webflow's own things I'd rather spend it writing code that gives full control over my project. Not to mention that it would be way cheaper to host the site somewhere else. I'm not a Weflow fan. Framer on the other hand is easier, but currently very limited. Also, I feel you do need to know at least the basics of CSS and HTML to use the platform properly. Otherwise, you'll be completely lost.
Some time ago wanted to start learning to make websites in webflow... Maybe it's good that i didn't start because Framer sounds more fun and easier to learn than webflow👍🏻
In my opinion as a professional webdesigner you have to understand all the web technolgies like html, css and javascript. And if thats the case the learning curve of webflow is not that problem. At this time I have no experiences with framer but Webflow is so powerful with all of its features that offers me as a webdesigner nearly all possibilities to create very custom websites very fast. With all the Web Basics skills you can also make them optimized for Speed and SEO. In the end is that what the client values from.
I agree that knowing the fundamentals of at least HTML and CSS is very beneficial for web designers at the moment, but I don’t think that’s what future web design tools will require. 😃 and I totally agree that Webflow is a powerhouse capable of everything… but I think they have things to think about if they want to keep their market share as big as it is!
Yeah, you can't have so many things and have it simple. From my brief look, there is something to be learned, but it is another platform so that makes sense.
I like Webflow for being more professional. As long as I can’t visualize every single idea I have in my head with custom code, I want to use a tool that allows custom code
All these tools are similar. Focus on one and play around with the other in case tides shift. HTML/CSS and some GSAP animation is not that hard folks. If anything it will make you more valuable. Suceess to all of you!
all I can say is that all these platform are all feels like rpg games. if you jump's in late. you probably can't catch up of what is happening and where the story came from and how it should proceed. you are bombarded by a lot of things and might end up quitting. most of the new peeps I knew doesn't want to touch wordpress. it feels like only GenX people are sticking with wordpress. most millennials are using webflow and figma. framer is probably are for genZ. like I said if you wanted to jumps in to framer. this is probably the best time to do it. while it is too early for them to compete with webflow. it is also easier for you to consume everything about it and learn along with it. on every patch they do.
If community matters to you, you should never use something like Discord where information is siloed and not indexable by search engines. It’s the opposite of open sourcing knowledge.
Thanks for the great overview! I’m a UX designer a long history in the industry and I’m working on rebuilding my personal site. I’ve been considering Webflow, Framer and Squarespace. Some of the things you can do in Framer are pretty compelling, but I’ve been concerned about limited funcitonality, or extra work down the line. It’s a tough decision so I’d be interested to know what other people have chosen for their personal sites, and why.
Hi Jon! I'm just getting started in the field of UX design and I think making websites on webflow can be a good start that kinda aligns with my goals of learning UX design. And it can also be a good source of income. Do you have and advice on that, please?
Bricks Builder with Custom Post Types, Custom Content Types and Custom Fields for me... I can't imagine being tied to a platform. WordPress gives so much freedom, I can literally build a replica of Facebook, RUclips, Twitter, Instagram, Spotify, Amazon etc. The WordPress REST API allows you to create apps of all kinds while using WordPress as your backend, the sky is the limit.
Learning curve is key. Per the goal is wanna to make a web that workable in the normal environment. Webflow providing the full solution with a lot of flexibility for designer who have no much code background, although there is limitation in term of solution could be, but it is enough for general design. And there are a lot of friendly learning material you would found in the internet from starter to advance level. Per my initial study few years ago, Framer was aim to helping designer to create a high quaility design solution that able to handoff to developer and further develop... No doubt, different market. However, that is cool if combined, bye developer...
Such a great video! Remember saying that Webflow was the photoshop of building websites. Just forgot that I don’t use photoshop because it’s too clunky of a tool for 98% of my work haha.
haha, Elias my friend 🤩 happy to have you comment here, I know this video stirs the pot a bit 😅 I think you put it even better than I did - Webflow is the Photoshop of web development. super powerful and you could do anything. but that power comes with the cost of complexity and speed, and in some cases it’s just not the right fit for a project. 😃
I am trying to learn webflow but it is so complex even for the most basic things I am getting frustrated now. I maybe wrong but I have learnt some html and css and I feel like coding is simpler than webflow.
I've been using Framer for years ... and now build rich experiences in the tool with the Mantine Framework .... // Currently been working in Webflow for a couple of projects, and it is so clunky ... .. the only saving grace for the tool for me is its CMS ... though Framer will catch up with theirs ...
digital products you can easily do with Lemonsqueezy and Framer, and subscription you can easily set up with Outseta 😃 in the end, choose whatever tool feels the most fun to use for you!
More Accessibility ≠ More Creativity. If we expanded your logic to other creative tools, we would have to say that Canva is a superior tool to Photoshop simply because it's more accessible and has less friction for the amateur user, is run by a more agile company, and because it deploys more frequent updates. All those things are true but I'm not leaving Photoshop behind any time soon. I think we just need to use the right tool for the right project.
The problem is, Webflow is also not for technical people in many cases. Disclaimer, I tried Webflow for only one Project so far, and I had the feeling that it was some kind so generalist approach that it can do many things, but is optimal regarding nothing, if you are coming from a particular angle. From the DEV View it quickly annoyed me how unintuitive and clunky the CSS Styles worked / would have been much faster to write them on my own, same with other features. Putting my designer hat on, I can relate to what you said, with all the missing freedom, and having a modular system, that makes you pay for anything, it was just too hard to get into, just to design something beautiful. From the Entrepreneur's view, it lacked a lot of features from the start that you would need to build a powerful SaaS application, compared to e.g. bubble. - While making you pay extra for all kinds of basic stuff like form submissions, or CMS items :-D So, I think it is a middle ground that might be perfect for some people, or agencies that are more into generic stuff. But not really something that is for one particular side of the professional spectrum regarding its strengths.
Its made just to make websites..They are a pain to build out.. But no is goign to be using these to build a new app, the time it takes to learn Bubble and such you can learn how to code. I agree with you about this....building sites like this seems unnatural
@@jwoods9659I’m deciding whether or not to start learning bubble and by reading your comment, I just wanna ask that if learning to code is much preferred, can I get the right online resources from you to start learning?
@@CashflowCollective Dude learn how to code. Bubble is good for ideas. BUT your dependent on that platform. The time it takes to learn it you can learn Flutter or JS. I say learn html..flexbox JS then do Svelte/AlpineJs or vue. Build simple things and move on then to React.
bro I really hope framer gives you some commission on your efforts 😄 welll done spot on. I relly love technical stuff but what I love even more is to get things done fast and beautiful
I'm a web developer and I'm currently trying to find something new for myself, and I thought about learning CMS to build sites quicker and land some orders on upwork. What should I study first: webflow or framer?
Yeah but how does the HTML code look. Is it clean? Or is it iWeb garbage. Apple had a tool that's like "You can make websites super easy you don't need to be a developer" but then the HTML was complete trash.
Webflow is pretty much for developers like myself who need to speed run browser compatibility. Way cheaper than a macbook. As a dev squarespace makes me want to die.
they’re so similar, so the learning curve is very small 😃 and unless you’re doing purely web design and very little custom vector work, you will still use Figma!
@@JoJoboiWav I still use Figma regardless because I’m building a bunch of different things (not just websites), but if I was doing just web design I would probably use just Framer in most cases. now, with Webflow, the barrier to express a creative idea is much bigger and thus a combination with Figma is almost always necessary in my opinion 😃
Having had to use Framer for a Uni project last sping/summer, I can only say it's still extremely buggy and unstable. While I can see it gaining popularity and becoming a great tool, I won't use it again until it's much more advanced. Multiple people in our class had the same issues of progress not getting saved, mini-games not working depending on which path one takes towards it, or stuff getting deleted. I remember finishing the project off and making a screen recording for it. 2 days later when I wanted to show my boss at work, nothing worked anymore... This is why I'm turning to Webflow for this new semester
oh, that sucks! i can't say i've run into any of the issues you're explaining, but i'd assume it's because they've updated the tool soooo much since last summer. that's basically when it launched 🤯 nowadays it's super fast and very reliable!
I think that definitely could be a problem if you're looking to just build the website in the builder and then export it, but in many cases you'll want to maintain the website on the platform where you build it 😃
I'm a design post-grad who's used to (due to assignments) design in Figma / Sketch and then have to manually code it from scratch. Therefore, my creativity has been limited, as I only designed websites that I was surely able to implement with HTML/CSS myself. That's why now I'm really looking into stepping up my game by learning either Framer or Webflow. Any recommendation for my case? Can Framer export the website as HTML/CSS?
framer's code export isn't super developed as the tool is made for designers (who most of the time want to stay on the platform to design quickly), however they do have something called "handshake" that you can google. now, vs. webflow it all depends on what kinds of websites you're trying to build. webflow's been in the game for years and thus covers most of the stuff you need, but there's a steep learning curve. framer's on the uprise and they're shipping in lightning speed, but also has great functionality. i'm currently building out a basic ecom for my upcoming framer course, and while it's clunky in some cases it gets the job done!
What about the animations Webflow is loved ? I saw a bit in your video but that just scratches the surface of what Webflow animations can do. Would be really interested in that since I am thinking to try framer out next project.
so its wordpress is old then web flow is the current and freammer is the under dog bro i just mastered word press now i am mastering web flow not framer too
I tried Framer and found out it is still quite limited and buggy. You can't even create or style a decent contact form because they use external apps for that. And that's just one example. Webflow is more established, versatile, logical and technically stable. I will not leave Webflow for Framer any time soon.
😂 waiting your next video from the stairs case 😅 jokes beside, it is the first time hearing about this product, I think it is another tool. And not a huge platform like Webflow, made for professionals
webflow e mai complex dar mai greu de invatat, framer e mai mult pt designer si mai usor de folosit framer e fauct via figma framer te tinte captiv in ecosistem webflow poti sa dai export la code site in alte programe
Framer is still a subscription based Web-hosting company with a webpage editor bolted on. You're still trapped into their system like all the other major players that replaced the freedom of standalone webpage software...for locked-in page builders for the masses.
I'm sorry, but this video is silly: Framer helped companies design their websites for free because, well, that't a strategy to get your tool out there :D And saying that their USP has "amazing community" -- Webflow also has an amazing community lol. We can't forget that websites are not just used by designers, but also marketers, content managers, SEO specialists, developers, etc. Thinking only in design silos -- aka "is this tool easy for me as a designer to use" -- is turning a blind eye on how the project you design will be used by others. Webflow's getting more expensive though -- so unless they figure out their pricing, competition will be popping up.
I dont mind with webflow's learning curve (understanding html & css will help you design better website, imo) but the fact that their free plan only let you create 2 pages is honestly off-putting. I mean a simple company website would at least still require 4-5 pages 😅
Framer is nice but I actually appreciate the extra complexity of webflow. The complexity has purpose and isn't unjustified. What I prefer about framer is the pricing. I think Webflow is unreasonable when starting out. They really should be more generous. Being locked into such high ongoing costs is a problem with webflow. It's fine when you're making lots of money but thats not a given. They should make those freelance accounts dirt cheap or free because freelancers would bring more clients. Yeah I'd consider Framer based on the cost alone. I can see it's not as powerful but it still offers value for what they charge. I think webflow is so big now that they really don't care. The numbers are in their favour. Good for them. Not good for me.
Webflow ux and ui sucks. Those who being somewhat emotional on his perspective need to understand that a professional tool doesn't have to look and feel horrible . I am building a website with webflow and man , the class system that they have is a nightmare !
I can't see Framer taking over from Webflow. I think there's space for both products though, and I think Framer will take more people away from Wix and Square Space than they will from Webflow. A lot of the hype about Framer that I'm seeing at the moment is their AI generation, which I think is completely overblown at the moment. It's just a set of pre-built sections and colour pallets that it randomly chooses, and then just adds some AI-generated text to the Text blocks. Not to take away from the amount of work and talent required for Framer to have built this tool, and it can be helpful, it's just not the end-all tool that some people are claiming. We've only just gotten over having to deal with crypto dipshits, let's not go down that same path with AI.
@@danielss77939 How did you find the change? Have you ever tried Webflow? I come from a coding background so I love webflow, but I totally understand the steep learning curve when learning Webflow if you haven't done much raw HTML/CSS coding before.
i actually think that they will co-exist as well, with framer gradually converting over more and more of the design crowd and webflow keeping the dev-based audience 😃 let's see what happens!
@@TimGabe Can you call APIs to fill dynamically a content? Let's say I want to create a dashboard application for example. Or What if I want to add a user management feature with dedicated spaces for each users ? Or create a map where my client can follow his Taxi fleet in real time.
@@David-xq7ef i haven’t created complex web applications in framer before, so i can’t answer with certainty, but… any of these things should be possible using code components!
@@TimGabe You can't do what you want with code components actually. And some stuff are not at component level. Anyway, "⚠ If you are looking to build a "real app" that creates, updates and lists dynamic data, a simple React application might be a better option for you, or a nocode app builder if you don't know code." I didn't say that, Framer did.
AI has taken my job. All these years doing computers and in the end my journey in trying to be a programmer has been a waste. Check this out. I have just built a website in less than 10 seconds using AI. Now do you understand? Information Technology is replacing people's jobs! What a waste of my time!😔
I get that it feels shitty, but at the same time we're now more capable than ever to create amazing things. more focus on human creativity, less focus on tools and technical thresholds!
Framer is still at very early stage, once you learn Webflow there's no way going back. Also Webflow helped me to learn HTML & CSS in visual way, now I am able to understand the basics and because of that I was able to learn HTML and CSS now just Webflow. Now I am learning JS to ramp up my Webflow game.
But I'd love to see Framer grow and compete against Webflow because competition forces companies to listen community and make changes on regular basis. Webflow is also changing Wordpress and I'm loving this growth of NoCode tools.
Although I still believe that learning to code is really important as it enhances the problem solving.
I like this perspective, Pratik!!
Webflow is a great tool, but I truly feel that the UX isn't optimised for creativity since it has so many technical thresholds.
we'll have to see what happens, exciting future for designers nonetheless! 🤩
I think webflow is good option for most business owners. Still when I try it, it feels like a step back from modern web dev. I have to manage styles directly, rather than create and use components. I don't have version control. Lots of magic in the interface. Websites made it are fine until you do some animations and insane effects and it becomes slow. Also I have an impression that if you really want to customize your website in gets too complicated that you might as well just use html+css
I am still undecided if its worth diving to webflow. Can you address my concerns?
Also do you have experience with client-firs by finsweet? How good is it?
@@kdme You can definitely create component on Webflow, to manage the style you need create a class which can be reused as well.
It does have version control both manual automatic but its very limited as of now.
It doesn't get complicated at all, instead it has made complicated process much simpler.
Yes it is not like Elementor or Wix where you get premade pages or components (although you can get that too here)
Webflow is modern and intuitive but you need to be well versed with basics of Frontend Dev to be able to use it to the fullest.
And, no Webflow animations doesn't makes the website slow at all. At lease I've never encountered this issue yet.
@@kdme You are simply not the target client. A more advanced web designer would see Webflow vs Wix the same way as you are seeing Web dev vs Webflow. The biggest issue is the cost, which directly related to the scale of the clients and the complexity of the project.
Just need Framer to allow exporting websites like Webflow and it'll get my vote, but it doesn't look like they're gonna allow that.
Who is leaving webflow? You and your 3 friends? Please give more data if you make such claims.
I really want this competition to beef up. Man Webflow is making their services so expensive for people in third world countries like me to work. Because I can’t afford it.
yes, let the competition begin!!
I agree. I'm from brazil and it is ridiculous the price that they charge for having the option to change the website domain. You need to pay the "plan", the custom domain and even a fee for each website.
Smh then the competition should beef up.
It's free for me, I'm Nigerian and used student account
@@tegathemenace I don’t want to be limited to two projects. I would like it to be affordable so someone like me can afford it for more projects that makes money. I am not talking about the free one.
Looked into it, webflow is still best for me as I am already a dev. Framer looks cool though and has people who would benefit more from that than webflow for sure! I am more concerned with creating something where I can extract the code as a static website I can then make dynamic inside other cms types.
Ultimately if you want to be freelance web professional.. best not avoid the tech and dynamics of how the web works.. i.e. box model , flex, grid and etc... a more intuitive interface might not be best for now.. you can use a package optimised for creativity, such as figma.. maybe.. as the design stage.
Tbh, I'll forever use Webflow because of code export. Most websites are more than fine being simply static, this is where webflow is simply golden! They should dial down with the pricing though...
I would use Framer if I were able to export to html code.
I think webflow is better positioned to adapt to low-code webapps, not just static websites. Webflow are now releasing a feature where you can write react code in the GUI bullt webflow pages and make them perform like an industry level webapp such as facebook etc. I'm definitely sticking with webflow (graphic designer, frontend developer who utilizes low-code and coded methodolies)
thats all the reason i need to stick with webflow. React is awesome.
that's a very cool thing!
i think that in the end we're going to see both tools thrive since their target users are a bit different. 😃
The answer for me has always been Elementor... I can basically build a SaaS product with Elementor. Others can be used for landing page and mini blogs.
I think Framer will be there sooner than we think!!
I dont like Elementor much, Webflow feels like Vanilla whereas in Elementor one just drag and drop premade components. IDK what's going on Elementor rn because I've left using it years ago. Maybe I'll dive again.
I was a huge elementor fan but stopped using it 2 years ago.
Slows down any kinda website for no reason lol
@@theMr.K Bricks Builder with Custom Post Types, Custom Content Types and Custom Fields for me... I can't imagine being tied to a platform. WordPress gives so much freedom, I can literally build a replica of Facebook, RUclips, Twitter, Instagram, Spotify, Amazon etc.
The WordPress REST API allows you to create apps of all kinds while using WordPress as your backend, the sky is the limit.
Thumbs up for Elementor.
Framer is great, building in react is great. But they force the user to use custom css within styled components rather than stylesheets. There's some limited custom code in the premium settings but that means a user has to pay before they can see if their design even works.
you’re free to create your own custom components and code overrides without the premium plan, that’s usually what I do… but yes, for site wide custom code you need a paid plan. I haven’t needed it so far though!! 😃
you can apply the custom CSS to any element on the canvas
As a web developer, i think that The future is being able to design and code at the same time. By the time you finish you should have a fully functional website/webapp.
Designer handing over to developer is garbage flow. No designer or developer wants to go through that.
totally agree!! looking forward to the future 🤩
I honestly think that both No Code Design and Code and Design tools are the future.
Funny I got an ad for Webflow while watching this video. 😄
Designers are not leaving Webflow. We're expanding our toolbox. Clickbait titles are so stupid, like: "The Webflow Killer". The only thing that will kill Webflow is their VC pulling all funding. But the likelihood of that is so slim. They have a higher chance of being acquired by Adobe to replace Dreamweaver, than be killed by Framer.
Last note: I love using Framer, it has some fantastic features that Webflow doesn't, but they've had to pivot their product so many times because of competition. They used to compete with Figma, till they gave up. Who knows if they'll pivot again? Webflow is a powerhouse, especially when combined with Wized, Memberstack, or Xano. You can't get that yet with Framer, and who knows if you ever will.
totally see what you're saying, the title is for sure shaped to spark people's interest and get the click - but I was using Webflow myself and left because of the reasons I stated. 😃
Webflow is great, and with Framer in the mix, they'll be forced to become even better. win-win!
WebFlow will probably IPO soon enough
@@Nickporter17 what is IPO?
@@ARNBNDL it's taking a company public. Initial public offering. Doing so would dramatically increase the value and future security of WebFlow. Which would be in contrast to it being acquired privately by a company like Adobe.
I use Dreamweaver and love it. It's a shame Adobe has abandoned it.
I don't understand how knowing or understanding html or css is a bad thing. It's not even that difficult to learn...
personally I think it's great to know and it's helped me a lot in my design career.
with that said, I think the future will look a lot different with all the new tools at our hands 😃
Fr its too ez
I think its just that writing css is a pain in the ass all the time. I would say I understand it fairly well but I just hate writing it. I used tailwind for a while and that it self made it way better.
can you make a video on how to deliver a website to a client in framer? i want to offer that service but i think the domain part actually is kinda confusing
thanks for the suggestion, rodrigo 😃
Not gonna lie but framer websites does not feel solid...
How so? Why? I'm looking to start web design and need the best no code option. Why does Framer feel less solid to you. Please share your experience as I need to make a decision quickly.
@@eingoluqif you are familiar with figma then starting up with framer would be easier. But definitely explore webflow aside, then also learn basics of code. It will unlock more possibilities for you.
Lol. You just lied mate.
From what I understood, three of the reasons are that it’s simpler to build websites with.
yes 🤩
What people fail to understand is that Webflow is "visual development tool", not a design tool like Framer. 2 completely different tools.
i consider them both visual development tools, just designed for different kinds of users 😃
Plz help!!!! 🙏
How can I connect my wrbflow login & signup pages to USIP or somewhere else???
My issue with Webflow is they charge a lot of money which is fine, but they are missing so many vital features. And when the community ask for something it takes years to get something so basic. Even there support is terrible and when you pay for the most expensive package you still do not get a number to call.
this I've seen a lot... it's too bad!!
My main issue with Webflow is not that you need to understand HTML, CSS and JS to work with it, but the fact that you need to work with the complexity of Webflow itself on top of the aforementioned technologies along with it's terrible pricing. I tried using Webflow but when I realized that I preferred to go back to pure code instead. The time that I was going to be wasting trying to understand how to circumvent Webflow's own things I'd rather spend it writing code that gives full control over my project. Not to mention that it would be way cheaper to host the site somewhere else. I'm not a Weflow fan. Framer on the other hand is easier, but currently very limited. Also, I feel you do need to know at least the basics of CSS and HTML to use the platform properly. Otherwise, you'll be completely lost.
good points! i think that while knowing HTML/CSS for framer is beneficial, you'll get away with just understanding basics of the box model 😃
Some time ago wanted to start learning to make websites in webflow... Maybe it's good that i didn't start because Framer sounds more fun and easier to learn than webflow👍🏻
i used to be a webflow user, but now it's framer all the way for me 😃
Framer is the future@@TimGabe
In my opinion as a professional webdesigner you have to understand all the web technolgies like html, css and javascript. And if thats the case the learning curve of webflow is not that problem. At this time I have no experiences with framer but Webflow is so powerful with all of its features that offers me as a webdesigner nearly all possibilities to create very custom websites very fast. With all the Web Basics skills you can also make them optimized for Speed and SEO. In the end is that what the client values from.
I agree that knowing the fundamentals of at least HTML and CSS is very beneficial for web designers at the moment, but I don’t think that’s what future web design tools will require. 😃
and I totally agree that Webflow is a powerhouse capable of everything… but I think they have things to think about if they want to keep their market share as big as it is!
Yeah, you can't have so many things and have it simple. From my brief look, there is something to be learned, but it is another platform so that makes sense.
I like Webflow for being more professional. As long as I can’t visualize every single idea I have in my head with custom code, I want to use a tool that allows custom code
Webflow is great!! however, you can add as much custom code as you want in Framer too! 😃
@@TimGabe Alright you got me that’s really cool!
@@TimGabe one last question, maybe you know more about this: Can you also connect it to gohighlevel? That would be very important to us
Soo 🤔 what's the difference between Framer and WP with Elementor?
All these tools are similar. Focus on one and play around with the other in case tides shift.
HTML/CSS and some GSAP animation is not that hard folks. If anything it will make you more valuable.
Suceess to all of you!
I don't believe this isn't a biased opinion.
I use Elementor right now and satisfied with it but interested to try out Framer!
definitely give it a try, my friend 🤩
I love Webflow. Framer not so much.
Thanks for the info, I didn't even know about Framer until now but I'm going to check it out.
can't wait to see you in action with framer, rick!
@@TimGabe Thanks man, can't wait to try it out!
Thank you man. Made me think concerning Webflow
More framer content, please! These videos are lit! ❤️
more upcoming, my friend 😃
and thank you!! 💜
all I can say is that all these platform are all feels like rpg games.
if you jump's in late. you probably can't catch up of what is happening and where the story came from and how it should proceed. you are bombarded by a lot of things and might end up quitting.
most of the new peeps I knew doesn't want to touch wordpress. it feels like only GenX people are sticking with wordpress.
most millennials are using webflow and figma.
framer is probably are for genZ.
like I said if you wanted to jumps in to framer. this is probably the best time to do it.
while it is too early for them to compete with webflow. it is also easier for you to consume everything about it and learn along with it. on every patch they do.
If community matters to you, you should never use something like Discord where information is siloed and not indexable by search engines. It’s the opposite of open sourcing knowledge.
I love the fact that they switched to Circle, but I see your point with the indexing though...
Thanks for the great overview! I’m a UX designer a long history in the industry and I’m working on rebuilding my personal site. I’ve been considering Webflow, Framer and Squarespace. Some of the things you can do in Framer are pretty compelling, but I’ve been concerned about limited funcitonality, or extra work down the line. It’s a tough decision so I’d be interested to know what other people have chosen for their personal sites, and why.
i think for a personal site, framer should be able to take you all the way pretty confidently!
what are you planning on including on your site?
Hi Jon!
I'm just getting started in the field of UX design and I think making websites on webflow can be a good start that kinda aligns with my goals of learning UX design. And it can also be a good source of income. Do you have and advice on that, please?
Well that HTML structure helps you with SEO
definitely does, my friend 🙏
WEBFLOW IS THE BEAST
THAT FRAMER
HOPES TO BECOME
i think they're both beasts in their own areas 😃
Bricks Builder with Custom Post Types, Custom Content Types and Custom Fields for me... I can't imagine being tied to a platform. WordPress gives so much freedom, I can literally build a replica of Facebook, RUclips, Twitter, Instagram, Spotify, Amazon etc.
The WordPress REST API allows you to create apps of all kinds while using WordPress as your backend, the sky is the limit.
Thank you! I love the editing style...great job!
thank you sara!!
Learning curve is key. Per the goal is wanna to make a web that workable in the normal environment. Webflow providing the full solution with a lot of flexibility for designer who have no much code background, although there is limitation in term of solution could be, but it is enough for general design. And there are a lot of friendly learning material you would found in the internet from starter to advance level. Per my initial study few years ago, Framer was aim to helping designer to create a high quaility design solution that able to handoff to developer and further develop... No doubt, different market. However, that is cool if combined, bye developer...
Wow as a Webflow learn-in-practice, when you mentioned Framer can Drag and Drop, my mind blew 🤯🤯🤯
the canvas of framer is what has me so hooked to it... so quick!!
Please make video related to roadmap to freelance web designer
Such a great video! Remember saying that Webflow was the photoshop of building websites. Just forgot that I don’t use photoshop because it’s too clunky of a tool for 98% of my work haha.
haha, Elias my friend 🤩 happy to have you comment here, I know this video stirs the pot a bit 😅
I think you put it even better than I did - Webflow is the Photoshop of web development. super powerful and you could do anything. but that power comes with the cost of complexity and speed, and in some cases it’s just not the right fit for a project. 😃
@@TimGabe you’re the man my man! 👏🙏
@@eliasstravik 💜🤩🕺 you!!
I am trying to learn webflow but it is so complex even for the most basic things I am getting frustrated now. I maybe wrong but I have learnt some html and css and I feel like coding is simpler than webflow.
i really like framer for its ease of use, but if you're not a designer (more of a developer), then maybe pure code is the best option for you!
I've been using Framer for years ... and now build rich experiences in the tool with the Mantine Framework .... // Currently been working in Webflow for a couple of projects, and it is so clunky ...
.. the only saving grace for the tool for me is its CMS ... though Framer will catch up with theirs ...
i think Framer is gonna make waves!!
Phenomenal breakdowns, thanks 🙏🏽
appreciate it, friend 🤩
If im gona develop my website, to incluide a digital products and suscription, Whats the Best? Webflow or framer?
digital products you can easily do with Lemonsqueezy and Framer, and subscription you can easily set up with Outseta 😃
in the end, choose whatever tool feels the most fun to use for you!
More Accessibility ≠ More Creativity.
If we expanded your logic to other creative tools, we would have to say that Canva is a superior tool to Photoshop simply because it's more accessible and has less friction for the amateur user, is run by a more agile company, and because it deploys more frequent updates. All those things are true but I'm not leaving Photoshop behind any time soon.
I think we just need to use the right tool for the right project.
Made by Spline?
not sure what you mean Ryan -- but Spline is a cool tool as well! (no affiliation with Framer)
Framer endorsed this video
lol I left WF for about 7years + now. Happy with Oxygen builder + wordpress.
The problem is, Webflow is also not for technical people in many cases. Disclaimer, I tried Webflow for only one Project so far, and I had the feeling that it was some kind so generalist approach that it can do many things, but is optimal regarding nothing, if you are coming from a particular angle.
From the DEV View it quickly annoyed me how unintuitive and clunky the CSS Styles worked / would have been much faster to write them on my own, same with other features.
Putting my designer hat on, I can relate to what you said, with all the missing freedom, and having a modular system, that makes you pay for anything, it was just too hard to get into, just to design something beautiful.
From the Entrepreneur's view, it lacked a lot of features from the start that you would need to build a powerful SaaS application, compared to e.g. bubble. - While making you pay extra for all kinds of basic stuff like form submissions, or CMS items :-D
So, I think it is a middle ground that might be perfect for some people, or agencies that are more into generic stuff. But not really something that is for one particular side of the professional spectrum regarding its strengths.
Its made just to make websites..They are a pain to build out.. But no is goign to be using these to build a new app, the time it takes to learn Bubble and such you can learn how to code. I agree with you about this....building sites like this seems unnatural
@@jwoods9659I’m deciding whether or not to start learning bubble and by reading your comment, I just wanna ask that if learning to code is much preferred, can I get the right online resources from you to start learning?
@@CashflowCollective Dude learn how to code. Bubble is good for ideas. BUT your dependent on that platform. The time it takes to learn it you can learn Flutter or JS. I say learn html..flexbox JS then do Svelte/AlpineJs or vue. Build simple things and move on then to React.
@@jwoods9659 ay thanks for the reply! And will getting a job be easier after that?
Where are you going guys? Take me there! is there any website else?
going to the moon!!
bro I really hope framer gives you some commission on your efforts 😄 welll done spot on. I relly love technical stuff but what I love even more is to get things done fast and beautiful
I've found webflow nothing but frustrating. After using Framer for the past day I will never go back.
i feel the same! 😃
but does it free? how much limitation does it hold for free account plan?
you can do most things you need for a very basic website on a free plan, but you can't publish it to your own domain
Except everyone is ignoring that Framer has the shittiest code output ever and completely ignores scalable work and accessibility...
i think framer is more for designers who wants to stay in the framer editor 😃
I'm a web developer and I'm currently trying to find something new for myself, and I thought about learning CMS to build sites quicker and land some orders on upwork. What should I study first: webflow or framer?
The CMS API is coming soon to Framer but not their yet, so atm it's very limited
for me, seeing how fast they ship and how community oriented they are, framer is the best bet!
Yeah but how does the HTML code look. Is it clean? Or is it iWeb garbage. Apple had a tool that's like "You can make websites super easy you don't need to be a developer" but then the HTML was complete trash.
what i know is that websites on framer perform really well on google speed rankings!
Nice commercial for framer....
Webflow is pretty much for developers like myself who need to speed run browser compatibility. Way cheaper than a macbook. As a dev squarespace makes me want to die.
interesting, never though of that use case!
How good domens are at Framer?
domains? they're good!
no code export tool...
I already got used to Figma, do you think I can get into web design with Framer?
they’re so similar, so the learning curve is very small 😃 and unless you’re doing purely web design and very little custom vector work, you will still use Figma!
@@TimGabe But isn't web flow combined with figma necessary to make webdesign? That's what I heard about it
@@JoJoboiWav I still use Figma regardless because I’m building a bunch of different things (not just websites), but if I was doing just web design I would probably use just Framer in most cases.
now, with Webflow, the barrier to express a creative idea is much bigger and thus a combination with Figma is almost always necessary in my opinion 😃
Having had to use Framer for a Uni project last sping/summer, I can only say it's still extremely buggy and unstable. While I can see it gaining popularity and becoming a great tool, I won't use it again until it's much more advanced. Multiple people in our class had the same issues of progress not getting saved, mini-games not working depending on which path one takes towards it, or stuff getting deleted. I remember finishing the project off and making a screen recording for it. 2 days later when I wanted to show my boss at work, nothing worked anymore...
This is why I'm turning to Webflow for this new semester
oh, that sucks!
i can't say i've run into any of the issues you're explaining, but i'd assume it's because they've updated the tool soooo much since last summer. that's basically when it launched 🤯
nowadays it's super fast and very reliable!
Wouldnt the tradeoff be that the code might be very messy and unstructured?
I think that definitely could be a problem if you're looking to just build the website in the builder and then export it, but in many cases you'll want to maintain the website on the platform where you build it 😃
I'm a design post-grad who's used to (due to assignments) design in Figma / Sketch and then have to manually code it from scratch. Therefore, my creativity has been limited, as I only designed websites that I was surely able to implement with HTML/CSS myself. That's why now I'm really looking into stepping up my game by learning either Framer or Webflow. Any recommendation for my case? Can Framer export the website as HTML/CSS?
framer's code export isn't super developed as the tool is made for designers (who most of the time want to stay on the platform to design quickly), however they do have something called "handshake" that you can google.
now, vs. webflow it all depends on what kinds of websites you're trying to build.
webflow's been in the game for years and thus covers most of the stuff you need, but there's a steep learning curve.
framer's on the uprise and they're shipping in lightning speed, but also has great functionality. i'm currently building out a basic ecom for my upcoming framer course, and while it's clunky in some cases it gets the job done!
Framer does not offer HTML exporting functionality. 🤨
they have Handshake (www.framer.com/learn/handshake/) which is pretty cool, but not HTML export in the same way that Webflow has it currently
What about the animations Webflow is loved ? I saw a bit in your video but that just scratches the surface of what Webflow animations can do. Would be really interested in that since I am thinking to try framer out next project.
will be doing a lot more animation tutorials in Framer the coming months!!
so its wordpress is old then web flow is the current and freammer is the under dog bro i just mastered word press now i am mastering web flow not framer too
No one is leaving webflow... framer just isnt there yet.
Framer or wix studio??
i haven't tried wix studio yet, so can't give a fair take!
I tried Framer and found out it is still quite limited and buggy. You can't even create or style a decent contact form because they use external apps for that. And that's just one example. Webflow is more established, versatile, logical and technically stable. I will not leave Webflow for Framer any time soon.
😂 waiting your next video from the stairs case 😅 jokes beside, it is the first time hearing about this product, I think it is another tool. And not a huge platform like Webflow, made for professionals
haha, are you referring to the background? 😅
@@TimGabe yes
webflow e mai complex dar mai greu de invatat, framer e mai mult pt designer si mai usor de folosit
framer e fauct via figma
framer te tinte captiv in ecosistem
webflow poti sa dai export la code site in alte programe
How can i add my framer website to google Analytics and google search console?
here's a link:
www.framer.com/learn/how-to-setup-google-analytics/
@@TimGabe thanks but i already found that 😅
"Traditionally" AKA 5-1 years ago
Framer motion in NextJS.
Framer is still a subscription based Web-hosting company with a webpage editor bolted on. You're still trapped into their system like all the other major players that replaced the freedom of standalone webpage software...for locked-in page builders for the masses.
true! it really depends on your needs; but for designers, this is so gold!
So designers went from WIx > Webflow > Framer. They are always leaving for something new.
i guess it's the name of the game... competition!
I'm sorry, but this video is silly: Framer helped companies design their websites for free because, well, that't a strategy to get your tool out there :D And saying that their USP has "amazing community" -- Webflow also has an amazing community lol.
We can't forget that websites are not just used by designers, but also marketers, content managers, SEO specialists, developers, etc. Thinking only in design silos -- aka "is this tool easy for me as a designer to use" -- is turning a blind eye on how the project you design will be used by others.
Webflow's getting more expensive though -- so unless they figure out their pricing, competition will be popping up.
I find framers sites slower
They leave webflow for 3 hours to try it out then realise it just ain’t there yet 😂
I mean... It literally only takes like 2-4 weeks to learn HTML and CSS if you spend 2 hours per day learning.
HTML and CSS is nothing. XD
Hello is Framer free?
hey David! yes, it is until you upgrade to a site plan!
What about Seo? Does it work for framer? That would be killa
yes! they're really optimising for SEO:
www.framer.com/features/seo-performance/
Idk why but in our country, the pricing of framer is not as good as webflow,
really? that's strange!! where are you from?
I dont mind with webflow's learning curve (understanding html & css will help you design better website, imo) but the fact that their free plan only let you create 2 pages is honestly off-putting. I mean a simple company website would at least still require 4-5 pages 😅
valid point!! I think Webflow is great, but I'm soooo much more hyped on Framer for designers like myself 😃
@@TimGabe Hello Tim,
I just started about website, so for new people framer is better? Thanks
Framer’s free account only allows 2 pages as well, a home page and a 404 page
Framer is nice but I actually appreciate the extra complexity of webflow. The complexity has purpose and isn't unjustified. What I prefer about framer is the pricing. I think Webflow is unreasonable when starting out. They really should be more generous. Being locked into such high ongoing costs is a problem with webflow. It's fine when you're making lots of money but thats not a given. They should make those freelance accounts dirt cheap or free because freelancers would bring more clients. Yeah I'd consider Framer based on the cost alone. I can see it's not as powerful but it still offers value for what they charge. I think webflow is so big now that they really don't care. The numbers are in their favour. Good for them. Not good for me.
i think it's great for us users of the tools that webflow finally has fierce competition!
after webflow (i did not like it) i came to "Vev" also an amazing tool love it
after coding websites by myself for some time I feel like webflow is easy hahaha
once you get a hang of it i don't think it's a problem, but if you're looking for quick creative exploration you run into a wall 😅
Webflow ux and ui sucks. Those who being somewhat emotional on his perspective need to understand that a professional tool doesn't have to look and feel horrible . I am building a website with webflow and man , the class system that they have is a nightmare !
So creativity is based on being able to use easy accessible preset functions?😅
I can't see Framer taking over from Webflow. I think there's space for both products though, and I think Framer will take more people away from Wix and Square Space than they will from Webflow.
A lot of the hype about Framer that I'm seeing at the moment is their AI generation, which I think is completely overblown at the moment. It's just a set of pre-built sections and colour pallets that it randomly chooses, and then just adds some AI-generated text to the Text blocks. Not to take away from the amount of work and talent required for Framer to have built this tool, and it can be helpful, it's just not the end-all tool that some people are claiming.
We've only just gotten over having to deal with crypto dipshits, let's not go down that same path with AI.
I actually moved from Squarespace to Framer, after about 10 years...
@@danielss77939 How did you find the change? Have you ever tried Webflow? I come from a coding background so I love webflow, but I totally understand the steep learning curve when learning Webflow if you haven't done much raw HTML/CSS coding before.
i actually think that they will co-exist as well, with framer gradually converting over more and more of the design crowd and webflow keeping the dev-based audience 😃 let's see what happens!
Figma integration with Webflow will be wining combination, I hope AI will reduce gap between Design and Dev
TY 🙏🙏
thank you!
Honnestly, Framer community never solve my problems. When you start doing some complexe app with framer it's not appropriate.
really? tell me more, i think most things are possible in framer!
@@TimGabe Can you call APIs to fill dynamically a content? Let's say I want to create a dashboard application for example. Or What if I want to add a user management feature with dedicated spaces for each users ? Or create a map where my client can follow his Taxi fleet in real time.
@@David-xq7ef i haven’t created complex web applications in framer before, so i can’t answer with certainty, but…
any of these things should be possible using code components!
@@TimGabe You can't do what you want with code components actually. And some stuff are not at component level. Anyway,
"⚠ If you are looking to build a "real app" that creates, updates and lists dynamic data, a simple React application might be a better option for you, or a nocode app builder if you don't know code." I didn't say that, Framer did.
Wordpress: are you joking?
😬
AI has taken my job. All these years doing computers and in the end my journey in trying to be a programmer has been a waste. Check this out. I have just built a website in less than 10 seconds using AI. Now do you understand? Information Technology is replacing people's jobs! What a waste of my time!😔
I get that it feels shitty, but at the same time we're now more capable than ever to create amazing things. more focus on human creativity, less focus on tools and technical thresholds!
What about Figma to Webflow? That’s the future.
we'll see what the future is, but undoubtedly it's going to be interesting!
WHY? Mayor reason "PRICE"