Fool for Love: Buffy the Vampire Slayer 5x07 Reaction
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2023
- Fool for Love: Buffy the Vampire Slayer 5x07 Reaction
#buffy #reaction #dakara
I watch all of these on Patreon in their extended form, I am much further ahead on Patreon so if that interests you click the My Links below and come and join the Dak Pack!
Video edited by Purple Nurple, show her some love - channel linked below:
/ @purplenurplespn
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @dakarajayne
⭐️*My Links*⭐️ - linktr.ee/DakaraJayne
📦*MAIL*📦 - Send me a nice lil surprise if you wish? :)
Dakara
PO Box 1400
WARRINGTON
WA4 9XH
🙏*Amazon Wish List*🙏 www.amazon.co.uk/hz/wishlist/...
My Moderators ► Toad | Darynidia | Dolores | Fernando | Angel | Liam | Sharon | Venice | Exazee | Butterfleaz
Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favour of fair use. 
Развлечения
One of my favorite all time episodes. Spike's history lesson is brilliantly done. But the very end is just the cherry on top. Especially that tiny moment when Buffy realizes that Spike is genuinely comforting her.
I adore this episode, the editing and camera work in the subway is fucking magic. I've also been in love with spike since his first scene (except for an episode that won't be named), he's my favourite vampire ever.
I would agree, but I stan pretty hard for Drusilla.
When they were in China, the Boxer Rebellion was going on. Someone could have driven a tank through the city of Peking and no one would have noticed. I liked this episode because it gave a little glimpse into Spikes history. It was a bit of a surprise to see Spike as a sensitive poet. but if you remember, -I forget which season it was- Spike was alone with Joyce for quite awhile, and all he did was pour out his heart about Drucilla, and drink some hot chocolate.
Season 3 is when Spike comes back to town after Dru broke up with him and he asks Joyce for the little marshmallows for his hot cocoa
EVERYTHING was on point in this episode. Writing, acting, camera work, editing, scene transitions, dialogue, fucking EVERYTHING. and then that final scene, you can see James acting the shit out of his lines. "What's wrong? Is there something I can do?"
I laughed out loud at the Dru impression. "But SPIIIIIIIIKE....."
It's really good!!
"I am shooketh."
Was excited to see this reaction, and I am not disappointed!
I always see the clothes the Scoobies are wearing in the graveyard with Riley as the costume designer's subtle homage to Scooby Doo... Willow is wearing a bucket hat like Shaggy, Xander is wearing a gold colored sweater like Velma and Anya has a red scarf like Fred. Buffy is of course Daphne but she's not in the scene.
Great reaction as usual.
About Spike's nature.
Just a liitle quote from Dopplegangland episode:
(might be a minor spoiler)
Willow: It's horrible! That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.
Buffy: Willow, just remember, a vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person it was.
Angel: Well, actually... That's a good point.
This is often considered one of the best episodes of the whole show (though there are a couple still to come that give it a serious run for its money). And you can see why!
The editing is some of the best in the entire show, especially when it goes back and forth between Spike fighting Buffy and fighting the other slayer
The show does have a few episodes imo including this one. I would put Hush up there as well
@@dylanburton4955spike’s transformation is really interesting and kind of tragic
No it's not! Dont need to gaslight her, not cool, dude.
@@Patriciobuenisimo85 ugh no. Hush is so overrarted. It's good but nowhere near as good as this one or many other episodes in season 5
My single favorite episode in the whole Buffyverse.
I am not even a big Spike fan, but I have always considered this the best episode of the show. How this episode didnt get awards for directing, editing etc is beyond me
Buffy saying "you're beneath me" is very good but it also cracks me up because, like, obviously the entire flashback stuff is visually for us the viewer, one would assume he probably didn't literally say all the dialogue from them for Buffys benefit. Unless he did.... perfectly describe the extremely humiliating moment the woman he fancied destroyed him. If he did then did he also say "oh so the first slayer, when she was about to die, said something in chinese so I said "sorry love, I don't speak chinese!"" and then look very proud of himself in the Bronze?
I think we can assume that what he's actually telling Buffy doesn't line up with the flashbacks 100%, since we know what the Chinese Slayer said, and Cecily is giving out serious "I've tried politely hinting that I'm not interested dozens of times and he still isn't getting it" vibes that I don't think he'd be self-aware enough to include.
I do think he actually told her that he got lucky in his fights with the Slayers, though, because it's part of the central thesis of his lesson.
I always imagined Buffy just said that of her own accord, not because she knew Cecily said it to him before. That's what makes it so powerful, she's not trying to throw the line in his face, she actually means it.
@@stephaniebarker472 100%. And also "Spike" is partly his response to how William was treated, it's a defence mechanism. Buffy saying it _independently_ of Spike leaves him nowhere to hide.
@@stephaniebarker472 This exactly. I'm shocked to think anyone could have interpreted this as Buffy intentionally "repeating" Cecily's words.
Maybe Spike understood what the Slayer said in Chinese and just wanted to be a dick 🤷🏼♀️
And also, I could see him describing that experience with Cecily, he was using this as an excuse to tell Buffy all about his history and how he became him. He probably said something like "Bitch thought I was beneath her" and then maybe some kind of threatening comment about what he's about to become 🤷🏼♀️ I could see him telling her a lot of the details im the story. He was enjoying drawing that "date" out with her.
Since day 1, Spike has been an interesting character whom I felt there was always more to him than meets the eye. Love that we got more backstory to him and were shown who he was prior to becoming a vampire. So many layers to him!
Also, never would I have ever imagined that he was a good son who thought of his mother and worried about not arriving home on time. It's weird that this is Spike we're talking about. Very cool to see.
Spike and Buffy interacting is just good stuff there. He's a vampire and she's a Slayer. Both meant to kill each other and yet they seem to find some middle ground and at times help each other out. I love seeing them in the same scene. This was another great episode between the two.
“Who he was prior to becoming a vampire”
Again… if it’s really demonic possession, this line of thought makes no sense. There is no “who he was” if he is just a random demon possessing a human’s dead body. He is not the entity that died so it’s not “who he was”. Rather it’s “who he has assumed the identity of.” It’s absolutely pointless to tell Spike’s backstory if it’s NOT actually Spike’s backstory. But rather some dead human’s Spike has taken possession of. That he has set up shop in because he is just a demon.
None of this makes narrative or thematic logical sense if we operate under the interpretation that vampirism is demonic possession. This episode proves it isn’t.
@@Girl4Music It does become interesting when considering if the demon has to deal with the brain of the body it is in, or for a more metaphysical perspective if the demon forms its identity from the person it was made in, as opposed to an already existing being taking over a body like with for instance Buffy and Faith body swap.
Angle does provide useful information both almost commenting that there is a connection between who a vampire is and who the human was before when Vampire Willow was discussed and with the example that in this setting the soul exists, and a human with a soul, a vampire without a soul and a vampire with a soul are all different, even if they share a number of characteristics.
@@KarlJeager MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD.
WILLOW: “It's horrible! That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.”
BUFFY: “Willow, just remember, a vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person it was.”
ANGEL: “Well, actually...
*gets a look from Buffy*
That's a good point.”
Can we discuss how ‘Doppelgängland’ presents a study case for Vampire Willow being like human Willow if Willow was suddenly missing an internal moral compass? I talk about Willow’s repressed sadism a lot and some overwhelming evidence for it is that there exists a vampire version of her in canon that’s a literal sadist and is just as evil as Angelus is. That enjoys inflicting torture and pain purely for fun. That has a good old time being indisputably sadistic.
Dark Willow - even though she has a soul and is human - thrives in the killing and the torturing of Warren and Rack. Yeah, she’s corrupted by black magic and feels nothing but vengeance, anger and hate. And yes, the people she does end up actually killing deserved it. But the point is that this is what she can be like even when HUMAN, even when ENSOULED. So Vampire Willow is interesting because that’s a Willow that isn’t either human or ensouled and how sadistic and evil she can be without an internal moral compass and without her humanity is reminiscent of Dark Willow.
And so I can’t help thinking that maybe that vampire has nothing to do with the demon that “possesses” Willow. Maybe the reason why that particular vampire is “so evil… and skanky… and kinda gay” is because that’s the human that the vampire is informed by. That it’s because it’s Willow why Vampire Willow is like that.
And I know it’s just for jokes why they had Angel start to say what he did in response to Buffy’s comment to Willow in trying to reassure her that that vampire is just an evil demon and has no bearing on her character at all… But I really wish we had got to hear what he was going to say. If I had to guess I feel like he was going to say something like “Well, actually… that’s not quite true. A vampire’s personality is still informed by the human that died even if it is not the person it was.”
But with Vampire Willow… the question is just how much of alternative human Willow informs her and how much is really just a demon from the ethers “possessing” the body of the alternative human Willow that died? You would think adding this particular situation on to the soul lore would be in support for it being demon possession… but I’m not so sure that that is so when much of the Willow that we see later on is what we get with Vampire Willow.
See for me, ‘Doppelgängland’ comes off more as foreshadowing than it does in being an addition to the soul lore that provides evidence for the perspective that vampires are a demon possession of a dead human because it does the entire opposite in telling and showing that to be the truth as they give us a significant look in to what Willow would be like both without a soul and without her humanity - which for me don’t mean the same thing because I don’t think of the soul that way. See, I have a very specific understanding of what a “soul” is and I don’t think of it as the human itself or as the person itself. I think of it as an internal moral compass for the human or person.
Which then further means if that human or person is suddenly bit by a vampire and dies - it doesn’t come back as a vampire because its body is possessed by a demon. It comes back as a vampire because IT IS a demon. A newly created or newly born demon in a human body that is informed by both the demon AND the human respectively. That’s why and how it can’t be a possession by the demon or human because possession means it’s an entirely different entity from the demon or human. And a vampire isn’t because it’s a half-breed of both the demon and the human. So it is still the same entity that died all the while becoming a newly created entity. It is, essentially, a resurrection or reincarnation of the human or person that died but just with personality traits and qualities that are only evil and sadistic in nature depending on what the human or person could be capable of that the newly created demon exacerbates in them with abandon.
Vampire Willow is a very interesting study case for this because what she is depends on whether human Willow can be capable of being that evil and sadistic all the while being a human. And… she can… as Dark Willow eventually and inevitably shows us. Yes, for her to get there it required the themes of power corruption, addiction and vengeance… but the point is that she was still capable of it. And, for me, it only just proves that if somebody that pure can become that evil and sadistic as a human… then so could we all.
Vampire Willow is not a study case for vampires being entirely different from their human counterparts. It’s a study case for learning that they are or can be alike if they’re missing an internal moral compass and therefore their emotions or desires were not being repressed. Vampire Willow is an uninhibited entity. They make that very clear in the writing when using it in juxtaposition with human Willow’s inhibitedness. Willow even acknowledges that both her and Vampire Willow feel like the world’s “no fun” anymore but then recedes that acknowledgement in the final scene, realizing that being “reliable dog geyser person” isn’t so bad. That she could actually be the entire opposite to that and she never wants to be like Vampire Willow if this is the pain and damage that she could cause.
So Vampire Willow truly is what we would get if human Willow was completely free of all constraints on her good character. If she suddenly believed that she didn’t need to be the good person she always is and could do what she wants without any thought for the risks or consequences of her actions and choices and without any concern for any pain or damage she may cause through her carelessness and recklessness. It is very much in her capability and nature to become what we see of Vampire Willow’s appearance. And I think that if Xander had not have been able to save Willow in ‘Grave’, this is precisely what Willow would have become. Not simply just Dark Willow. But Evil and Sadistic Willow. She would have lost her humanity.
Fortunately… she still possessed an internal moral compass and so her humanity won over the battle and Vampire Willow remained just a fantasy in fan-fiction. But it does give me pause to realize that Willow’s selfishness, arrogance and entitlement in Season 6 would still inform everything that Vampire Willow is precisely because she is the human psyche for her.
Great reaction to a fantastic ep and a great feature for Spike and James M, showing his unexpected origin story going from the sensitive but challenged poet and how the demon in him changed him to the Spike that he is well known for, but surprisingly a lot of the sensitive poet still exists in him. Like you said, the transitions between Spike's stories and present day were well done and written . And then the quiet support he showed Buffy at the end when he was angry and ready to kill Buffy, but then seeing that she was in pain and struggling with her current situation, to give up his angry revenge and do the decent thing.... what a powerful and understated scene... Loved finding out the origin of Spike's coat as well.... a trophy perhaps, but a stylish one.... a CTU for you and like always, keep em coming!
(the show more section contains SPOILERs) I think that's the key up until the chip spike despised the human that had once had his body, interacting with Buffy and the scoobies made him be willin to accept that he has those memories.
This of course sets him on that eventually leads him to restore the soul.
@@DaDunge Please try to not to post spoilers, especially spoilers for seasons ahead. I'll keep this one up as Dakara is on 7x03 on patreon now, she only found out about the soul last week.
@@PurpleNurpleSPNOh shit I did not realize I had messed up the spoiler tag.
This episode... ✨👌💖
Omg My favorite Episode!!! Spike Origin Story and why he is the way he is🤘 I have so many stories James has told me about this with are chat's fun fact The Slayer from The Boxer Rebellion actress is one of the deadly person ever! She is one of the last Family members of Bruce Lee and still teaches to this day Ming Lee☯️🙏 The 1977s Slayer fight they filmed on a Real Train bought in the studio, and on the episode William was a poet and just wanted Love after turning into Spike Turned into a Anarchy Rebel and even stood up to Angelus!! But at the same time kept that Love deep, And that Look in the alley pure Rage after what Buffy said Legendary Acting! And that Ending right ;) Stay awesome Dakara 🤘
In this episode, you also get to see William slowing evolving into the Spike of that time. First, he picks up the new name and accent, then he get's his facial scar from the Chinese slayer and then gets the hair and finally his jacket from the NY slayer.
So his transition from William to Spike is gradual then. More like an evolution.
He does not immediately stop being William the moment he turned into a vampire. He is simply just William without a soul.
The original lore states that as soon as the soul leaves the body, the demon comes in and repossesses that of which belonged to its human host. It doesn’t belong to the demon - the demon takes it for its own pleasure.
And that of who the human was before they died is no longer relevant. It is now just a demon and nothing more. The human should not inform the demon because it’s NOT it.
@@Girl4Music I would say that 'rule' about demonic possession was inaccurate - it did come the Watcher's council (via Giles), and they're useless lol. I wouldn't put much stock in one line in the second ever episode.
@@PurpleNurpleSPN lots of people do though.
But yes, I agree. I see it as demonic corruption. Not demonic possession.
Great call Jayne (Sharon) whoever chose the thumbnail for the upload. One of great emotional scenes in a show with many great emotional scenes, Brilliant!
Thumbnails are all Dakara, I just edit the episode. It is a good thumbnail!
Reading all the comments to this reaction, you can see why this episode is so highly regarded in the show. It’s so polarising with the different ways in which people interpret what happens in it.
Is Spike using manipulation?
Is Spike being genuine?
Is Spike just all kinds of fucked up and doesn’t actually know what it is he wants or feels? It’s anyone’s guess really.
But one thing I’ve seen that is unanimously agreed upon for this episode alone at least.
William’s story IS Spike’s backstory.
These are not just memories given to Spike now he possesses the body of William. They are HIS memories. He IS William. Spike IS the human that died.
Buffy isn't using the "You're beneath me," line against Spike. Spike never told Buffy that part of the story. We the audience are being shown what really happened but if you listen to what Spike says before the cut to the flashback during the earlier parts of the story, "I've always been bad," and, "I had to get myself a gang," there's no way he went on to tell Buffy about how he was mocked and rejected at a party and then chocked and chastised by Angel. He just made up something cool sounding to tell Buffy during those sections of the story. Buffy saying, "You're beneath me," while hurtful to him is coincidental on her part.
My theory is that the weekly vampires are new, and we don't have much time with them. And Drusilla, the cowboy vampires, and Harmony all also have unique ways of relating to humans and humanity. While Spike plays with humans a lot more, some of the empathy we're seeing is probably part of vampires still being social creatures, and since he has a chip, he has to relate to the scoobies to be part of the gang. He definitely has unique qualities, but maybe there's other vampires out there with complex personalities
It was Interesting knowing so much about spike's past this episode is really good
“I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that prior to being Spike he was mocked, he was laughed at, he was teased for showing how much of an emotional guy he was, how much heart he had and how sensitive he was. So because he was teased for that, I feel that he’s got that little gremlin inside his head now that’s like “I’m bad. I’m bad to the bone. I’m someone to be feared. And don’t laugh at me. I’m tough.” I think having this chip put in his head has kind of reverted him back to his true feelings. Not this facade that he puts on. I could be totally wrong. He could be this soulless thing and that’s it. It could be very black and white. But to me, what I’ve seen so far is that he has shown a lot more empathy and understanding to humans than what other vampires have. Like these vampires that just get staked left, right and center have no soul. Their empathy is non-existent. Emotions are non-existent other than anger and hunger. But the only other vampire that we’ve seen like this is Angel and he’s got a curse on him. He’s been given that soul. Spike seems different. He seems kind of special to the others.”
You are a very insightful reactor. The thing with Spike’s arc - especially this entire episode - it completely contradicts the original vampire/demon lore where when the human dies, a random demon “sets up shop” inside the human body and it walks and it talks like you but it’s not you. You’re gone.
That clearly isn’t the truth with Spike. It might be the truth with Darla or Druscilla, but even that’s not really clear with their own arcs either since the human entity they apparently “possess” very much informs them too when it shouldn’t if it is actually possession. I propose it isn’t. I don’t believe possession is ever what is actually going on. I believe it’s corruption. Therefore the demon is created. That is the vampire and that is the exact same entity as the human that died. And episodes like ‘Fool For Love’ seem to be validating that interpretation over the demonic possession one.
The demonic possession interpretation seems to be a misunderstanding by people that actually don’t have firsthand experience of being a vampire. And they’re passing judgement because it’s easier for them to believe a vampire is just a thing rather than still a person. Not human. But still a conscious being with free will. With emotions and qualities and skills that of which THEY had when THEY were human.
Of course - the problem with this interpretation however is it makes us question whether the Slayer is a murderer. And we can't have that can we? But I stand by it being transformation and corruption and not possession and identity theft because I think it makes more logical sense with what we are shown than what we are told. I don't give a fuck. The original lore is too inconsistent with this new lore.
Spike is evil.
@@volourn9764 and?
Great ep and a pivotal one in lore. Buffy's renewed emphasis on training since the enjoining spell has given rise to a certain amount of overconfidence and cockiness(One purpose of the brutal Cruciamentum is to nip that in the bud).
Being nearly killed by a random vampire is a dark reminder of the chancy, split second nature of combat. Then Spike's penetrating observation about the nature of the Slayer and the endlessness of killing to just stay alive illuminates both Buffy's strength in her friends and family...and the inevitability of her violent death.
Buffy's vampire opponent looked like he was part of Motley Crue instead of Kiss.
A really good episode. I wish we had more Spike and Dru scenes, maybe the whole "angry mob in Prague" part but that's not the point of the episode. It is interesting that Spike seemed to be thinking about Buffy during Season 2 which definitely contributed to Dru leaving him
Great ep. I did find it interesting that spike really just got lucky in both of his battles with slayers. He just keeps pounding forward and if he gets lucky in the fight, he's there for the kill
A bit like Buffy a lot of times if it wasn't for her friends.
It's how I play most video games😅!
I think you got it exactly right about Riley & Buffy. She may love him but she's not IN love with him. She doesn't realize it but she's using him; he helps her move, helps fight vamps, is there when she needs companionship. He's a good man that deserves more.
Riley needs a girl who will make him the center of her world because that's how he loves, but being the Slayer will always be the center of Buffy's world - and she proved when she killed Angel to save the world that no one will come before her duties. Riley and Buffy have love for each other, but they're just too incompatible to be endgame.
17:00 the funny this is, he had his moment, Buffy as distracted and weak and he could easily have killed her there, but he hesitates and realizes he doesn't want to and the next moment the next part hits him why is Buffy so out of sorts.
It wasn't an accident, But Spike was about to be dusted by the Slayer if it weren't for that explosion going off at the right time and turned the tables. So he did get lucky.
While the numbers were nowhere near 16, which would be incredible/unbelievable, I always felt they should have made it 3 Slayers that he killed instead of 2. Since we know Slayers have notoriously short life spans, they obviously all get killed. I would suspect the majority being by Vampires. So a Lot of vampires can be credited with killing one Slayer. As shown here with the ordinary vamp almost getting Buffy, and Spikes getting lucky and his note on Slayers "death wish" Most slayers that were killed were likely by normal ordinary vampires than say The Master or Angelus or something. So killing one Slayer is a big deal but not wildly as many ordinary vampires did. Killing 2 now, that is extra. But for a vampire that lived for ages and "Sought them out" just one above so many ordinaries....... I think even just one more would make it a bigger deal while not being unbelievable.
He got lucky but it fits with him saying he always has his weapon
Slayers have secret identities which is why it takes him so long to track them down like nicki. Also if they reboot buffy can we have a nicki the vampire slayer show i would prefer that. Also its about assessing when the slayers have their death wish its abiut timeing
Given that they seem to say most slayers are not expected to live past the age of 18, I’m gonna take a guess that most slayers probably die from that watchers test when they remove her powers, that’s what I always figured anyway and would explain how spike would be such a legend for killing two of them. Also shows how sinister the watchers council really are.
My eleventh overall favorite episode/comics issue among both shows and canon comics, but my sixth overall favorite for the BtVS series.
I love the editing in the NYC slayer fight as well. There's a similar fight in Arrow s2 that cuts between two fights five years apart that's also well done.
Spikes Slayer trophys: The scar on his eye brow by her sword in 1900 and the coat from the one in the 70s.
And i like that that with the railroad spike was adressed again. In S2 Giles told the others that Spike tortured his victims victims with those spikes.
Drusilla wasn't that kind of insane, since the attack on her in "Prague" (?) - which was the reason for this restoring ritual with her and Angel - was later.
William was a poet, and since Doppelgangland we know that a vampire stays close to his former personality (except for lack the impulse control, responsebility and remorse), so his different behavior compared to Angel(us) is understandable.
Most vampires also lack empathy though we've seen that Spike at least is capable off it.
Fool For Love is an exceptional episode this why IMHO S5 is by far the best season. The flashbacks are superb we can see where William/Spike is the way he is. He has been treated appallingly by women through the ages Cecily/Drusilla/Buffy. He was a gentle person as a human as opposed to Liam/Angel was an awful human. The scene in The Boxer Rebellion where Drusilla, Darla, Angel and Spike are walking away from the fire and Spike jumps in the air is one of the most iconic ever. This scene is exactly replicated in Angel episode called 'Darla' S2 E7 for those watching the watchlist of both shows in order. The fight on the train too with Spike in 70s where he steals the slayer's coat was brilliant. Buffy repeats Cecily's words 'you're beneath me' there is just so much foreshadowing in this episode it's amazing. A truly brilliant episode in S5 without doubt the best season, Fool For Love is definitely in top 10 episodes of whole series. This is one of the best episodes of the series so far, but there are two more in this Season that even better than this! S5 blows all the others away. Incredible writing!
One of my favorites
Cecile's rejection isn't actually unusual.
She COULD have said I'm flattered (etc)
But honestly... that's not how it works much of the time.
Most women I've approached (not even asked out or professed attraction to. Simply talked to) have been unpleasant, rude or outright cruel.
The excuse I see most often is that this is a defence mechanism to discourage persistence.
Honestly, I just think it's cruelty for its own sake. A failure to understand how difficult it is to break the ice or "make a move" coupled with the privilege of not actually needing to do it.
Hell, I've been mocked for nerves by girls so shy they wouldn't even talk to me when we first met.
Definitely a scene ahead of its time, even if Spike is somewhat the butt of the joke.
I remember feeling acute empathy even at the time, having experienced VERY similar situations. 20~ years on, the bad still outweighs the good significantly.
I can honestly say that the few times I've been rejected with kindness and a modicum of empathy... I've really appreciated it and felt nothing but warmth and respect for them. Rather than the immediate sense of disgust I feel for casual cruelty that makes me wary to talk to anyone for extended periods.
I certainly modelled my own conduct after that fashion. The handful of times I've been propositioned by men, I've thanked them for flattering me and simply told them I wasn't into them. I've had zero issues. Back when I was 17 and it happened, I was shocked and silent, had to be rescued by my uncle and developed a minor case of homophobia that lasted a few weeks (teenage boy insecurity)
Kindness is always preferable. It's not weakness. It doesn't encourage anyone. It's just simple decency. Anyone that was going to be persistent (or worse, become abusive/obsessive) would do so no matter what you do. Because they're the problem.
I think you're spot on about how William's experiences informs Spike's personality.
Not only his inclinations being mirrored in the demon, but also the hurts and insecurities driving the creature he would become.
Compelling and subtle storytelling imo.
As a woman, I can say that many of us have tried the nice route of turning someone down only to find that it doesn't work and the guy won't go away. After multiple instances of being nice not working, we have to change tactics to see if anything will work. Eventually it leads us to sounding too blunt or down right rude, in hopes the guy will just stop
@@colleenmarin8907
Thing is, that doesn't come from nowhere.
It's a consequence of women's own preferred communication style.
If you've ever talked about sending a guy "signals" you're part of the problem you complain about.
Direct is fine. Be direct.
Being MEAN is not necessary.
And trust me when I say MANY women become mean. And not, as you suggest, without cause.
For the guy, it might be the only woman he's approached in weeks. Months. YEARS. He might read kindness as an invitation, bc he's been told he has to "pick up signals" his whole life. And women really aren't all that kind to men, in general. (for the reasons you describe, I'm sure)
And then he gets crushed with a rude, demeaning rejection.
Because he's the third guy that day to bother her and not take the hint.
Fact is, even women suck at knowning what "the signs" are from other women.
Every time they run the experiment women are no better at identifying it than men. Which is strange, as it very much is a female behaviour pattern... but the thing is, every woman is different. What to one woman is a CLEAR signal or invitation is just "being nice" to another. What is a CLEAR sign of disinterest for one woman, is a test for another ("to see how he handles it. To check he's really interested")
If people would just COMMUNICATE these things would get better.
And I'd suggest you TRULY consider how it would feel if the shoe were on the other foot.
If you were really getting on with a guy and started to catch feelings, you approached him about it and he became "blunt and rude" to shut you down.
Consider: Women will OPENLY trashtalk their OWN intimate partners for a lack of enthusiasm, let alone rejection. I do not think they would react better if they were "brave enough" to do the asking. Bc we all know that leads to more "men are trash" thinking and claims that men are shallow and judgemental. Typically bc the women doing it are all approaching men who HAVE lots of options :P
@@DmGray You make it sound like the guys who wouldn't leave me alone after I politely said, 'Sorry, I'm not available' were justified because they don't understand social norms. I'm not sure what signals you mean, but I never taught anyone to read between the lines. I say what I mean and yet my words are not respected? I was taught not to smile at men because they might think I'm flirting, and yet not smiling doesn't work either. What would you have me do?
@@colleenmarin8907
YOU are not the entire society we are raised in.
YOU are subject to behaviours that are inspired by the actions, inactions and inability to communicate of others.
There is no perfect solution.
Only appreciation that sometimes... stuff just sucks.
Hell, even saying "i'm taken" (which shouldn't be necessary, but should be accepted and respected) is something many women say JUST to "get rid" of a guy.
And guys know this.
YOU say you "tried the nice route" as if that juistifies being an arsehole in the future.
Honestly reflect on that as a choice.
Try asking whether you would accept that justification from somebody else. "well, OTHER people didn't respond to kindness, so now I'm treating you like an arsehole, just in case"
So, kindness didn't work, rudeness didn't work... but you'll just CHOOSE rudeness?
Rather than appreciating that some subsection of men are just trash and nothing you do will change that.
ALlowing the trash to dictate your behavious simply lowers you to their level. And is the EXACT reasoning given by manisphere types to treat women the way they claim to (and rarely actually do, imo. Most of them are simps who want to pretend they're not for clout)
So, again:
It sucks to be hit on and have people ignore rejection or become angry. Totally awful and shouldn't happen.
But it ALSO sucks to flirt with somebody, or ask them out, and be treated like a piece of shit.
Neither of those things makes the other okay.
And that is not a difficult thing to grasp imo.
@@DmGray 9 out of 10 men not taking my polite no as the final answer is "some subsection"? Do you enjoy victim blaming? I no longer give any response because nothing I say to these men is respected. I'm not going to continue playing nice, when that obviously doesn't work, because that would be a sign of insanity
Remember Cecily.
Any one else think the Hellmouth may be emitting something like an SEP field? I don’t see anyone wearing peril sensitive glasses so my guess is when something Sunnydale weird happens their brains filter it out as “Somebody Else’s Problem,” and go about their day.
Buffy's "You're beneath me" is very different from Cecily's. Cecily said it because she's a bitch. Buffy said it because Spike had just basically told her that the SECOND she wants to die, he'll be the one to do it, so she was angry and afraid.
Such a great origin story...I mean, sweet jacket
5:00 Remember thay it was said that Spike got the name Spike by torturing a victim with a railroad spike. Well i think its fair to say we found the person.
You were so distracted by punk Spike's hotness, you didn't twig onto his leather coat being a slayer trophy? But yeah, that scene was well done.
Nice!!! So excited to watch this after work! Definitely in my top 5 episodes of the entire series.
1:05 The way you make the word Riley actually sound like the word disappointment. 😅
19:00 Yes he was, and he tortured those people to death upon becomming a vampire, Giles mention the incident in one of the early Spike episodes in season 2.
Slayers have died before Buffy, probably mostly due to vampires, so it should be no surprise that Buffy can't kill every vamp she faces. Injuries come along with being the Slayer.
Such an awesome episode! I love seeing the origins of our sensitive soft boi vampire
This is one of my favorite episodes.
This is one of my favorites as well
I think it’s a sweet story too. I think Spike went there angry and then genuinely changed. Some people think he is exploiting her but I don’t. I don’t get the impression that’s what the writers want to convey at all. It’s clear to me this is meant to be a sweet moment not Spike saying “aha! Now I can get what I want!” I have never thought that it just doesn’t fit at all
She made him mad then he wasn’t mad anymore when he saw her. It seems simple enough to me
Oh there was a moment of now I can get that one good day, followed by "Do I really want Buffy dead" and "Wait why is she out of sorts?"
Spike and Buffy are the cuttest ❤
I adore this after-show commentary, and this is one of my episodes. The a ting from JM and SMG in the last scene certainly steps it up a notch, as does the camera/directing of this episode. I'm sure you'll be ahead on patreon but I can't wait to see your reactions to the next few episodes.
Thanks for the time!
One of my favourite eps, James marsters doesnt get the credit he deserves x
In his own twisted and demonic way Spike is right about slayers having a death wish. But for as observant as he is, he still doesn’t understand dying for something.
Funny how Spike speaks an obscure demon’s language but doesn’t understand some very common words in Mandarin.
''Spike is a demon, incapable of love, but I guess they use lust and possessiveness for them thinking that is what love is
So he’s crying when she tells him that he is beneath her because she doesn’t sleep with him and not because it genuinely cut him? Hmmmm idk about that
@@Patriciobuenisimo85that’s where the possessiveness part comes in, he just wants to have her
@@Davidscomix I can’t respond to this without spoiling future episodes
Actor playing is Amazing in this show! The better is coming!
Minor Spoiler:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Remember Cecily!
YES!
Oh how I've missed your dru impersonations dak 🙂
Posting my BUFFY REWATCH recap for ‘Fool For Love’. May contain spoilers.
This episode doesn't have Tara in and Willow is barely in it at all so this recap isn't going to be about them but rather about Spike's character development.
In 'Fool For Love' we are given Spike's backstory narrated by Spike himself through a series of events in which he went after and killed 2 Slayers. One before Buffy arrived in the 1970's and one in the 1900's during the Boxer Rebellion in China. Once learning about The Slayer, he immediately became obsessed with them: seeking them out to attack them when most newborn vampires would just stay away because they knew they'd lose.
Spike wanted the challenge of defeating a Slayer and his philosophy as to how he was able to defeat 2 of them, to answer Buffy's question, was due to them having a death wish. But it could be argued that the reason why Spike even wanted to battle a Slayer at all was because HE actually had a death wish.
"You're beneath me" - Cecily/Buffy
His rejection by Cecily, his rejection by Druscilla and finally his rejection by Buffy alludes to the assumption that Spike conflates love with death, passion with violence and sex with cruelty. As a soulless vampire - all these emotions and experiences live in his head rent free and he can't differentiate one from the other. They all sort of just mix together - which tells us why when he tries to kiss Buffy, it's after a particularly heated "dance" with her in which he felt he had her on her toes - he was winning because he was scaring her... Until she took control and turned it back on him.
You see, goading her to hit him and her following through with it would prove to him that she wanted it and that he would be right about her wanting it because she's a Slayer. But for her to stand there before him showing him it wasn't worth her time or energy because he was nothing to her, hurt him. Her rejecting him is much more painful than anything else Buffy could do to him. In fact - anything else would be pleasurable because she's just showing him that she's just as heated by the "dance" between them as he is. And she is - she just won't let herself admit it because "The Slayer" doesn't do that... But the human animal does.
'Fool For Love' is a good episode for learning and understanding that the desires of a soulless vampire and a greater good Slayer are one in the same. They both have a death wish. Spike under the guise of being evil and Buffy under the guise of being good.
19:45 Spike can show empathy to humans yes but remember they are the humans he know and care for, he is very willing to kill random humans.
And that matters why?
Just because he knows them shouldn’t make a difference to how he feels for them if he is a soulless demon possessing the body of a dead human. He shouldn’t give a shit about any of that. He shouldn’t be capable of those feelings. He is just a random demon.
@@Girl4Music true but if we move beyond pure evil demons and look at evil people the most evil people who have ever lived have had a tendency to spare some people they liked. Hitler for an exampel protected the family of the jewish phycisian who had treated his father. It been said that every nazi leader had a few jews under their personal protection.
Dr Who also mentions this in the episode boom town:
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new. Every now and then, a little victim's spared because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions. Because once in a while, on a whim, if the wind's in the right direction, you happen to be kind."
This is where I really started to lose the plot with Spike for exactly the reasons you described: he's just inexplicably different from other vampires. There's a reason for it with Angel. There's no reason for it with Spike, and that seriously bothers me. Spike should simply not be capable of feeling some of the things he clearly feels.
All that aside, Spike was half right about what he said regarding slayers: they _do_ want to die, but it's not out of the perverted sense of curiosity he thinks it is. It's because they all eventually get tired. They're out risking their lives all the time because nobody else can. They didn't ask for this responsibility; it was thrust upon them. Even if they start out like Faith and enjoy the power and the killing, eventually, they're going to get worn down and tired of it, if even only on a subconscious level.
Vampires shouldn’t be capable of empathy, selflessness, truthworthiness, grief - all the things you would typically correlate with the theme of love. And yet - he, as a soulless vampire, is. It cannot be demonic possession.
At the end of the day Spike is a vampire like any other vampire without a soul; HOWEVER, that vampire has the memories of the person who came before. To me that influences who they are as a demon. Does that make him good? No; however, with this behavioural chip in his head for the past year, it allows/forces the demon to behave in a way that is contrary to their base demonic instincts. William was a good man; passionate, articulate, and considerate and we see all those traits in Spike. On another note, it's very unusual for vampires to have life partners. We saw it with Darla and Angel but that was built from a mutal love of violence and carnage. With Drusilla (who also as a human had a strong empathic and gentle side) Spike had a long 'loving' relationship since the time he was created. Their bond was extremely strong, caring for each other when the other was on deaths door. This is all influenced by what came before. Again, they are souless demons, but there's something there that influences their decisions. Lastly, i noticed how many commenters say how Spike was lucky in those fights with the Slayers. Spike is an incredibly good fighter and, unfortunately, with him coming back into the show they had to dumb him down a bit. Anybody can get 'lucky' in a fight - including Buffy - that doesnt take away from how good of a fighter he is. To have gone after who knows how many slayers and survived (because there's likely more than two) and successfully killing two of them shows how capable he is. Add in to that back in The Harsh Light of Day when he and Buffy faced off against each other they were a pretty similar match. And considering she's stronger than him naturally, that's saying something.
especially since it's not some preexisting demon that possess the body, it's a brand new demon, and the memories are all they have to althc on to so they often see themselves as a continuation of the person, even though that's not strictly speaking true.
oh geez, is this how far behind you tube is from patreon? I assumed it was like 2-3 episodes behind not 2 seasons :D
16 slayers would have been a hell of a resume. Like 1 every 12 years. Would make killing a slayer a bit of a typical weekend.
What do you mean? How long did Kendra make it? I dont get your point. Its told several times in this show that Slayers dont get very old. Just think of the 18th Birthday ritual. They said it doesnt happen very often.
@Smido83 for 1 vampire to kill 1 slayer every 12 years and you don't think that would make a slayer pretty run of the mill? Yes Kendra died but she was the only slayer Dru killed. She didn't kill 16. She didn't kill 2. Spike stands out as the only one to kill more than 1.
@@russellward4624 I still dont get the point? Of course Spike would be the biggest baddest vamp ever. But technically ist more then possible.
The thing I HATE about this episode is he's just explained in detail how he killed 2 young girl slayers and kept ones jacket as a trophy, but the writers want me to believe Buffy would let him sit next to her and put his hand on her after he just done that AND tried to force a kiss on her. Its repugnant.
Spike is more human than other vampires and even some people with a soul. This soul thing in Buffy is overrated. Lot of people have it and they are awful or even terrifying. You can't just devide them by vamps or not vamps. Like if they are not vamps then it should be ok.
Spike, always looking for love and falling for women who treat you badly. Poor baby.
It really is overrated on Buffy in some parts of the fandom. There's other shows and other franchises where having the soul makes you generically good, or generically bad, but that's not Buffy. I don't know if "poor boy" is the way to describe him, but as a demon he has mostly good qualities.
It seems that having a soul was originally intended to be a good thing, as that is what changed Angel. Since then, who knows what it means anymore?
@@alicequinn505 yes, I agree. And he is kind of a wrong demon. Other ones would laugh at him for the way he is now. So for me, not generally but for me he is a poor baby in moments like here. When I want to pat him on the head. All this you're beneath me is not just some characters saying it, that's the show's opinion.
@@ronfehr7899 the problem is that they keep using this soul logic with everyone after Angel. He was the complete opposite character with the soul and without it.
But now they write another story, Spike is not like that but at the same time they still use this soul idea with the way they treat him. Because for Buffy he is mostly a 'thing' if he doesn't have a soul. Only sometimes in rare moments she let him be beside her, really close and not scream about it.
And that is why I ship Buffy and Spike way more than her with Angel.
Why because she's disgusted by him and he's obsessed with her?
@@MrSupertallblackman Yup... some people are just perverted...
might just be the fact that spike is not a boring simp like Angel 🤣🤣🤣@@MrSupertallblackman
Maybe cause teen-buffy/angel was kinda creepy ?
@@MrSupertallblackman Name one *single* scene of Angel not stalking Buffy, watching/spying Buffy, talking about Buffy, looking for Buffy, or otherwise obsessing over her. Not to mention, Spike spends the majority of his energy *fighting* his feelings for this person - cause they're wrong given who they are - while Angel barely resisted having a relationship with a young teenager (feelings that are infinitely more wrong).
I see a lot of people misinterpret things here with Spike at the end of this episode. Spike doesn't suddenly change his mind on killing Buffy out of the goodness of his heart. He sees her weak, wounded, and his scumbag predator vamp instincts pop up and he thinks, "Oh, this is a way back in!"
He is a vampire. He is incapable of feeling empathy for Buffy. Everything he does, he does in pursuit of self.
He wants to get with Buffy, she shuts him down, he then immediately resorts to "Okay, she said she'll never be with me so I guess I'll murder her." Then when he shows up and sees that there might be another way to weasel in there, he takes it because it's easier and serves his interests. That's all.
Vampires cannot act selflessly or feel selfless love, empathy, or compassion. That's just cannon in this show and every action any vampire ever takes reinforces that. As well as statements from Angel explaining why he thought he loved Darla but realized after getting a soul that it wasn't love because vampires are incapable of love.
Spike thinks he loves Buffy, but he literally CANT love Buffy. And that's why we see him turn to actual murder here against someone he supposedly "loves" the second he is rejected. Because his only thought process is "ME ME ME" like all vampires.
It’s hard to respond to this without spoilers but she does seem to legit hurt his feelings when she says he is beneath her
You’re gonna say the sad piano music at the end was meant to stir up an emotion of “oh Spike you damn weasel!” I don’t buy it. Sorry I just don’t buy it. There’s something else going on.
@@Patriciobuenisimo85yeah, I don’t buy it either. I know we all have different ways of seeing and interpreting events that happen in this show but the writers weren’t trying to convey Spike manipulating and tricking Buffy here. They’re conveying it as a genuine change in him. And it makes sense when you consider a future episode and the events that happen there. He is empathising with Buffy for the situation she is going through.
It’s true. He shouldn’t be capable of feeling empathy - but he clearly does.
So 🤷♀️
We can’t just dismiss what the writers are conveying to us in this scene even if it makes no sense because he is a soulless vampire.
@@Girl4Music I agree and like you said I can’t explain it. And honestly I kind of like that in a way. I like Spike and I like that I don’t totally understand him. I may never understand Spike completely. I don’t wanna say spoilery things so I leave it there
@@Patriciobuenisimo85 yeah. I like when there is blurred lines with the characterization be it human or not, ensouled or not, protagonist or not. I think the show is far more compelling that way than the black and white GOOD VS EVIL and HERO VS VILLIAN tropes. Blurring the lines makes things so much more interesting than when they’re not.
So if I’m saying bye bye to the original lore with this episode - then so be it. It works for me. I find the demonic possession interpretation very poorly explained anyway. Makes far more sense if it’s demonic corruption. As in - the entity that is the vampire is still the entity that was the human.
First things first his name is James MaRsters not Masters. Second my problem with the who Buffy and Spike relationship is highlighted in the last scene. I dont much care for the idea that of "oh he's such a bad guy but he's nice to me and has heart of gold." I find stuff like gross and weird and worst of all cringe.
Having a soul does not dictate everything about who the vampire is. Angelus isn't like Spike who isn't like Darla who isn't like Harmony. It's not "something special" about Spike they're unique in their own way and it comes down to who they were as humans. As Darla "it's who we were that informs everything we are."
I disagree with that deterministic view on people, people can change, and Spike is basically suffering from a disability because o the chip in his head, that alone forces him to look at the world anew. And seeing the struggle in another person and being capable to relate to them is in my opinion a very fruitful ground for any relationship. You might look at that as cringe, well, I find your views similar view to be cringey too.
She said Marsters just without overly stressing the r.
@@philipmcfarlane That's not how the name is pronounced.
@@MrSupertallblackman she has an accent, you’re going to have to deal with that.
@@Drudenfusz No see the problem is that right before that he was planning on going to her house and blasting her head off with a shotgun because she hurt his feelings and then we're supposed feeling good about the fact that he decided not to do that. That's the gross part Spike's problem isn't cute or romantic it's creepy and toxic. If the show reenforced the toxic nature of it that would be one thing but it doesn't the show frames it as wow isn't Spike such a good care person because he didn't kill the person he says he loves.
I do find it interesting that after he kills the slayer, Angelus says “I guess that makes you one of us” even though he’s never killed a single slayer ever. Other than being feared cuz of his sadistic way of dealing with humans, the comment doesn’t make much sense with he isn’t even on spikes level in terms of a slayer.
You were so distracted by punk Spike's hotness, you didn't twig onto his leather coat being a slayer trophy? But yeah, that scene was well done.