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They took some liberties with the audience's fore-knowledge of the characters, causing them to be maybe less developed than they could have been. Other than that this movie gave us what many wanted, a look at the actual fight with Skynet, the sort of guts of what Terminator is all about. Sad about the other sequels, but maybe one day we could get another great one.
It wasn’t a bad movie, but it was a bad Terminator movie. The future lost all abstraction. It felt tame and suburban while trying to be the wasteland of the future
@@StayFractalesque And there´s a reason for that. Originally in the final battle John Conner WOULD be killed by the the T-600. Marcus Wright would then have John Conner´s face transplanted onto his and would take up the mantle of John Conner. However the audience reacted negative towards this and so the ending was re shot into what we got.
@@Erikjust fair enough too that storyline sounds stupid. That's like putting a Lamborghini body kit on a Toyota corolla and telling everyone its a legit Lamborghini.
@@Zontar82 Way to read into it from a completely obtuse angle, kiddo. I said I forgot Terminator Genisys even existed, because Dark Fate was so much worse. I grew up with the SNES, Genesis, N64, Gameboy, and PSX, not that it matters to even mention.
Honestly, Salvation was the first and only Terminator film I saw in a theater with my old man, and I liked it the first time I saw it. Now that I've seen what the Terminator series has become, I hold on to Salvation tighter than others...
Much better than either of what came after, and moreso than their original ending would’ve been in replacing John Connor with Marcus which would’ve been awful. Really seems John should’ve been the focus, Marcus not strictly necessary. Focusing on the terminator-human future war was the right call overall - more of that was and is the answer
For me, Salvation is the best Terminator sequel after T2. It has a great aesthetic and finally moves the story into the post-war future while continuing some of the threads from the last one. Whereas all the other sequels keep doing retcon continuations. Christian Bale is great casting for John Connor, with the film choosing to focus on his rise and building up his legend, rather than throwing us into the thick of things. Anton Yelchin is also great as a young Kyle Reese and embodies the character far more than Jai in the next movie. The fan service is also well done, with it referencing things from the past films without being too in your face like most movies now. The biggest problem for me is the focus on Markus as a Point of View Character, which makes sense given the original ending. Though, I'm glad they changed it, because otherwise we would've gotten a fan reaction similar to Dark Fate years earlier. If any Terminator movie besides 2 gets another sequel, I'd prefer this with Bale returning as John Conner at the height of the resistance.
@@ninjanibba4259 For one, compare the future shown and described in T1/T2 to this ridiculous thing in Salvation. That's just on the lore side. More importantly, it undermines the whole genre and style. The writing is extremely puerile and PG-13, it is zoomer oriented and written by. Salvation is not a Terminator movie, it is "YA coming of age fantasy" with robots. Like Transformers. It is superficial and CGI action oriented, not character-driven. It is the opposite of profound.
Genuinely did not mind Salvation because it did not infringe or retcon the first two movies, while expanding on the universe. I would have far preferred if they skipped T3 and went straight to Salvation, sure it didn't approach the first two films, but it had far more potential.
I think Salvation missed the mark by a decade. . . Should have set it for the first few weeks after Judgement Day. . . Before humans realize Skynet is an enemy. . Loss of global communication after nuclear bombs going off. . . Humans not knowing whose flying the drones opening fire on civilians. . . The dawning of comprehension of "what happened" Could have been great.
They should have adapted the SM Stirling novels, which start immediately after T2, into movies. Those would have been brilliant and allowed Ahhhnold to play both terminators and the CIA agent/merc that the 800's were based on, fighting terminators alongside Sarah and young John.
I would never want T3 not to be made - I loved it. T3 is actually far darker than Salvation, I guess the 3 or 4 lines of cheesy jokes were the failed attempt to balance it but just try to ignore those lines and you'll see what I'm talking about....Salvation in fact is not dark at all, except the color scheme but in story, not really just a regular sci-fi, though a good one definitely.
This movie is once again, VASTLY underrated. Thanks for giving us your review of the film. Glad to know this film is getting recognition it deserves. This is one of the best Terminator films and my favorite of the first 4.
I liked this movie. They had really cool designs and finally moved on from the present. I was sick of the formula of having a terminator guardian. It was about the war and John finally accepting his role as leader of the resistance.
The real reason why there wasn't a sequel to this movie, is that it's not the box office performance, but rather the company who made it, The Halcyon Company went out of business and filed for bankruptcy in 2013
I would have loved to see more movies with Christian Bale's John Connor showing his continued rise through the ranks, the technological advancement of weaponry, and the escalation of the war.
Whatever problems Salvation had, it actually continued the story. I would've loved to see that story continued. Instead, the next movie put the franchise on an infinite loop so that the story will never be completed.
I feel the best way to watch these movies is: Number one Number two and then a Choose Your Own Adventure of picking whichever one of the sequels you want to watch after that. Excluding Genisys of course.
@@Conserpov there's only 2 Terminator movies and it's the first 2 there are no others in existence....NONE.... there's a generic sci-fi apoco movie claiming to be terminator and 2 insults also claiming to be part of the series but there are only 2 terminator movies! lolz
The biggest problem was that the Marcus plot twist was spoiled in the trailer. I think most of us would have preferred Marcus’ cyborg reveal to have been a shock to the audience. It also didn’t help that Marcus’ character really doesn’t change. He’s the same person in his prison cell that he is smashing the chair through a Skynet window….we never even find out what his crime was, only that his actions caused the deaths of his brother and two cops. That’s kind of important when the theme of the movie is salvation.
I wouldn't say he hasn't changed. Funny thing, if you read his charges when they are very quickly shown while he's talking to skynet (Helen Bonham Carter) towards the end of the movie it says that he brutally murdered his brother and several cops.
@@joeynova3550I think that what Edward is saying is that, for all that gets said about Marcus pre-becoming a cyborg, nothing is shown to contrast his change at the end. For example it could have been shown early that he was selfish and always just looking after himself, loosening up over the course of the movie as he spends time with Reese. However he was helping others all throughout the movie so, when it comes time to sacrifice himself at the end, it is not out of character at all as he has been doing that all movie. Had a contrast been established between him at the beginning and end of the movie an arc would have been created, rather than just being a flat character throughout.
@@MegaRayland in a way he kind of was, forcing a kiss on the girl with cancer trying to get him to sign the papers. I don't think they made it really obvious but it definitely shows him changing throughout the movie. He was about to leave Kyle and Star to die but then changed his mind at the last minute. The way I saw that was that he was already well on his way to becoming a better person when he's introduced in the beginning of the movie.
Every Terminator movie was spoiled in the trailers. It's a running theme. The Terminator (1984) begins with the expectation that the audience and Sarah Connor don't know which is the terminator, but if you were watching it for the first time in theaters after seeing the trailer, there's no question. _"Arnold Schwarzenegger is The Terminator."_ And every movie since has been betrayed by its trailers.
People often forget that Bryce Dallas Howard was Mrs John Connor here, which is why when she directed episodes of The Mandalorian, the Night of a Thousand Tears looks like a tribute to to the Terminator movies
I also find it interesting that the original ending to the movie was that John’s was carried out but his heart wasn’t holding up. Before he died, he recorded key updates of the future he knew from Sarah along with the rest of the cassettes she had left him. Kate came up with the suggestion that Marcus underwent an operation to essentially wear John’s skin and they don’t tell anyone John had died. Marcus agreed and became the new John Connor which is how he was able destroy Terminators so effectively. Ultimately though, that ending tested poorly with test audiences on the basis they didn’t like the idea of John dying or being turned in to a terminator in any way. It’s ironic that years later they tried both of those concepts in 2 separate movies. Clearly they didn’t learn from Salvations test audience.
I heard they changed the ending just because it got leaked. And because they is dumdums so they'd rather change it to a lesser ending than have a spoiled one.
I can totally understand how distracting it might be to have someone walking around in the background while I’m trying to do a scene. Perhaps the DP was only checking the lights but he was apparently too close.
Little known fact, Christian Bale actually joined a set of freedoms fighters, became their leader, faught a war and time travelled into the future to do this role properly.
Man, I'm right there with ya Dave! I've covered sci-fi film and TV professionally for a decade, went to film school and have sold and optioned scripts in Hollywood and have NEVER understood the hate for Terminator: Salvation. The Director's Cut is killer! The movie has a compelling cast, an interesting story that explains how the John Connor story is really partly a Marcus Wright story, it's got the Harvester robot, cool cycle-bots, and those frightening scenes in the Skynet factory. I have no clue, honestly! Love the T-600s in the desolated streets recoiling after they fire their heavy guns! The score is great, and even Bryce Dallas Howard turns in a decent performance! And how about that boss TRAILER using NIN's The Day the World Went Away?!! We have forgotten how good we all had it.
Fun fact: the entire Marcus story line is a left over from a previous iteration of the script which saw JC die and Marcus surgically alter his face to take over the role of JC in a “the idea of John is more important than the actual guy” twist. The reason they left the story in the final movie was because they had already signed Sam Worthington on behest of James Cameron
This movie had the right idea, but the wrong execution. It cleanly broke away from the whole time travel schtick from the original two films and established a premise set in the future war itself. Problem is, they should've made John the leader of the resistance like he should've been and end the movie with the resistance winning, Skynet sending their first terminator back to 1984 and the resistance sending Kyle. Everything comes full circle.
Exactly. It was the right direction to go but it should have looked more like the awesome future war we saw in flashforwards int he first two films and why on earth was the focus on a character we've never heard of before who then gets killed off at the end anyway! They were never going to make Salvation end with the resistance winning though as that then creates a dead end for the series and they wanted a trilogy at least to carry the series forward.
John Connor became the leader at the end when the resistance refuse the orders given from the military leaders. From my point of view it makes sense that at the beginn of the war the military is in charge (when this movie take place) and not some guy who says he knows what will happen. What i didn't like on salvation is from where does Skynet already know who John Connor is even if he doesn't play a big role in the resistance... And far worse why Skynet knows who Kyle Reese is (The only one who knows how important Kyle Reese will be is John and that should be the reason why he doesn't scream it around)! But in the end i really liked salvation and i wished they had finished the 2 sequels of salvation than genisys or dark fart! And sorry my english isn't perfect so i hope i didn't write complete nonsense!?
@@dukeboomer9282 Since this is a sequel to Terminator 3 I would say that the TX is likely responsible for how Skynet knew about John as she was from the future as well and did interface with the internet of the time to get her target list with that dial up like tone she did on her mobile. It would make sense that at the same time she may have left data packets on the net for the Skynet at that time to find so it could learn how to defeat him.
I just don’t get why they didn’t go for the Cameron future war look. All I wanted was a blue filtered skull littered wasteland with purple laser beams.
They wanted it to look like the Middle East in order to be relevant or something. Hated it. The laser beams were explained though, as Judgment Day happens a decade earlier than it's supposed to which is why Conner is desperate to destroy the new Terminator facility because they don't have the weapons yet that can stop them.
It's in thr same time-line, just far earlier. It's much more realistic as the beginning parts of the war shen humanity still has some jets and submarines... Eventually Skynet will build terminators and develop laser weapons that humans will scrouge up but humans will have been messaged, losing their planes and whatnot.
I think the idea was that they hadn't gotten to that point yet. Maybe this is pure speculation on my part, but it felt like they were trying to go for an in-between point that they intended to build toward with future movies (that never materialized).
This movie has grown on me over the years. I like it. I don't especially think of it as a Terminator movie. More like a stand alone sci-fi movie. It dared to at least break out and do it's own thing.
@SomeNorwegianGuy I'm not sure if these count, but Ad Astra Blade runner 2049, High Life, arrival, annihilation, john wick 2,3 etc ... I agree with your sentiment, though that terminator salvation is a very mediocre film- which is what my original comment was referring to
I always liked this one as it was the first time the war itself took the centre stage but the biggest problem with Terminator is it will always be judged by T2 standards. An impossible bar to beat.
I remember 2009, setting up my pc, Stereo and couch. We watched 1,2 and 3 back to back. Went to the cinema to see 4 and it was so different to what we expected. Years later rewatching it, it was a better experience.
I dont know about that, there are definitely some elements of "THE MESSAGE" in there... Most obvious are the "I need to figure out who I am" plot, and a "diverse" (and disabled AND has a special power!) young girl who presumably represents the future of the resistance
Won't say "just" before, the enforcement levels of wokism I felt happened some time after 2015. Maybe 2017. (Year of the last jedi and CW flash season 3. That was when I felt that the narrative and structure of most of my beloved franchise started to die in favour of "the message")
@@jongodsey8472small, naturally occurring not forced, amounts were fine. Now they’re shoved in everywhere and people are rejecting all of it now. Tried to have “equality”, but that was taken advantage of and abused, now none of it is ok.
Fun fact: the original draft of the script had a twist ending where John Connor actually dies, and Marcus has his skin replaced with John's to assume his identity and lead the resistance in his place.
Maybe there's a way that could have been done well, but that just sounded cheap. I didn't see it for a while after it was in theaters because I heard that was going to be the ending. That's comes off like the same kind of bs that Dark Fate pulled, kill off John Connor and then replace him as the leader saving humanity from the Machines with some random person who has nothing to do with the original. In Dark Fate, it was a woman because girl power, in Salvation, it would have been done because Sam Worthington was the flavor of the month (no disrespect to him because I kinda like him in everything I've seen him in, but that's absolutely why they wanted to make him the lead instead of John Connor). I think they ultimately made the right choice, though I like the idea another commenter had that they should have harvested more than Markus's heart and made John Connor part Terminator in the same way Markus was in order to keep him alive. That would have made some interesting possibilities for the story if they chose to continue that storyline.
I totally agree with the order you ranked the films. There should be a trilogy before 'Judgement Day' and a trilogy after. Genisys and Dark Fate should never have been made. They serve no purpose except to milk the franchise, make the studios more money on a tired tried and tested formula, and 'reimagine the story for a modern audience'. They are not canon, mess up the continuity, and offer nothing original. If Cameron is really going to make another one, Salvation is the movie he needs to go back to and start from it's end.
Salvation is the REAL T3, as the real T3 it continues T2, at worst, it would have potentially ended the franchise, the Sarah Conner Chronicles is AMAZING if you like Terminator and want to see Sarah and John only a few years past T2. T2-Infiltrator is an excellent book.
Agreed. Salvation would have made a far better T3, and explored previously untouched concepts and parts of the franchise. T3 was a mistake. Genesis, honestly probably just as bad and as much of a mistake as T3. Dark fate, I wouldn't even consider bad fan fiction - amateur larping at best.
remove Terminator, make all the robots more generic looking and re-release this and yes it's a decent movie, also change some character names, Conner and Reise mainly.... it'd then just be a generic dystopia movie and it'd be pretty good on it's own! might even launch it's own series that way lol
@@judgedrekk2981 it may have removed some of the mystery and legend of the war between humanity and skynet but it was still decent. Plus, it's still a whole heck of a lot better than the last two terminator films.
Interestingly, there wasn't that much CGI. Austrian bodybuilder Roland Kickinger was a doppelganger for young Arnold. They did a few tweaks to make the face look right, and did a fine job of it.
This is what they should have done with Arnold in the other movies, just make a younger CGI version of him, with his voiceover. The geriatric Terminator storyline was one of the many negatives in Genysis and dark fart
Terminator Salvation should have been the last movie in the franchise. It should have been lasers, battles, learning Skynet's weaknesses, defeating the rogue AI, and ending the film by sending Kyle Reece back in time to save Sarah Connor.
After playing Terminator: Resistance, I developed an appreciation for this film. The whole timeline of the War Against SkyNet is a huge market. If there was a sequel, I really feel like we could have seen the Resistance closer to when SkyNet is destroyed in 2029. That is the visual gap between semi-modern military tech and the jump to plasma warfare.
The movie had great potential and they should have focused more on the relationship between John and Reese but it was 2009, so they had to force insert Sam "zero charisma but Hollywood likes me" Worthington into the film...
It woulda been great if they just focused on Christian Bales John Connor. This movie got bundled into with Hollywoods obsession to push Sam Worthington as the next big star.
@@springwoodslasher79I’m not saying avatar is a well written film but when Sam Worthington reads his lines, it just takes me out of it because of his acting.
I have always liked salvation. No mind blowing or revolutionary movie, as you said, just a good time. Modern movies have often made me go back to older films and give them the Thanos line, “Perhaps I treated you too harshly.” Also the CG in salvation is masterful compared to todays detritus. Yeah CG Arnold is a bit rough but he is still better than floating kid head in Thor 4.
I think the biggest weakness of the movie hands down was the silly Sam Worthington not knowing he's a terminator plotline instead of having John Connor be the protagonist as he's basically a side character in this.
He is a side character though. He's just the leader of his local cell and even the higher ups in the Resistance don't listen to him. He becomes leader at the end and Marcus is dead, so the sequels would have been about him (and I guess Kate since she takes over after his death).
That is MY particular opinion, as well. It was a weaker story, due to the Marcus storyline, and not enough John Connor. The film wasn't tightly written, as were T1 and T2. But... I like it enough to purchase it. I don't even admit to any of the other films.
I thought it was good! Just impossible to stand in the shadow of a perfect film in Terminator 2: Judgement Day. If that film isn't in the top 5 movies of all the time then there's something wrong.
I always really liked Salvation, and never understood why it was so maligned. As you said the Sam W character is weak, but there are lots of pluses that outweigh that. Good video.
The crazy backstory of this movie was about the changing of the ending due to the backlash of a Drew McWeeny article covering the story leak: evidently John Connor was going to die in the original ending. The story then continuing with John Connor's face being transplanted onto that hybrid Terminator. Obviously the fan base went ballistic with the news leak so the powers that be made a last minute change to the story: heart transplant surgery in the middle of a war zone.
It definitely would have had thematic irony. The hero of humanity being a minor nobody in life only to become a legend in death after he’s replaced with a robot. Skynet creating the instrument of its own downfall. In future installments you could over hear people retelling larger than life stories about John Conner’s achievements and writing them off as chuck norris level exaggeration except a robot wearing John conners face totally could lift a truck off some rookies legs, or tank a direct hit from a phase plasma riffle.
That was the great issue back then, as I recall (aside from a few glaring plotholes). Everyone was pissed that they tried to kill off John. A better fix to the script would have been to have John need to be saved by making him a terminator like Marcus vs being replaced by Marcus. Then you have something interesting to work with. Blurring the lines about identity & whether it’s still really John. John leading the Resistance, now with some huge advantages, but with a dark secret in future installments, since no one in the Resistance would trust anyone with any bit of machine in them.
I think everyone wanted the future world depicted in the original movies, laser beams and all. While it wasn't a bad movie per se. The fact that it didn't have that template was deeply disappointing to me
What people forget about is that this was meant to be trilogy, that would have progressed to the flashback scenes. This movie takes chronologicaly quite some time before the future war scenes, and Skynet was evolving.
@@lihkan I know that, but I didn't see a credible progression. And their 2018 didn't really fit with how Reese described Connor breaking them out of the death camps where Reese had been shovelling bodies.
yep! it looked more dangerous and perilous to venture out but also looked so much cooler... the first 2 movies future scenes all cut together is fantastic stuff.....no dialog just score music, I love it, someone actually did this awhile back
My only gripe was A, they didn't have the phased plasma rifles shooting purplish-pink lasers and B, the fact that they spent their time outside in daylight when Reese said in T1 that you stay down by day but at night you can move around; that last one likely changed due to time-travel shenanigans but still it's something to keep in mind, otherwise it was a decent enjoyable film IMHO.
Look at the age of Reese in this film...there's obviously several years to go before you get to the Reese in the first film, so the war situation will have changed by then.
The thing is during this cinematic period we were all spoiled for choice we took movies for granted thinking how much better they can only ever get as the years go on. Oh how we were all wrong…
Previous year we got The Dark Knight and Iron Man. When Salvation wasn't as good as those we said to McG "that's it, you and me, we are done, professionally." But then, we got Genisys and Dark Fate.
@@digitaldazzle5836 in the preview they spoiled that Marcus had a Terminator skeleton. While watching the movie if you didn't know what he was, it might be a surprise when you see the mine stick to his leg for the first time.
That’s kind of a recurring theme in the terminator franchise. You look at the framing of John Conner encountering the t800 and running to the t1000 and it looks like a classic bait and switch for the audience expectations. And guess what scene was in the theatrical trailer. Then of course we can’t forget the John Conner nannite terminator that was revealed in the trailer for genesis.
It would have been awesome if Terminator 3 was in the Terminator 2 future. So it follows John Connor as the human resistance general. There could be some major battle scenes and so forth. The story would also follow Reece and how he climbed the ranks in Connor's army. There would also be scenes how the resistance tries to reverse engineer Skynet's technology. So in the end the human resistance is getting wiped out. Massive casualties. In the last push John and Reece go into Skynet and infiltrate it's time machine. John reveals to Reece he is his father and he pushes him into the machine. While at the same the time portal is still open, two T-800's and a T-1000 sprint through the burning infrastructure and dive in. A dying Connor listens to his ear com. Command's last message comes through in a static broken female voice. They thank him for his service, and they inform him Uncle Bob successfully went through.
I have no recollection of what youre talking about. The terminator story clearly ended with Terminator 2. They couldnt make any more movies after that.
I also appreciated what they were trying to do in T:S as I had been waiting for a movie set in the post-apocalyptic future for decades. My main issue with T:S was that Skynet knew that Kyle Reese was John Conner’s father. Then on top of that, it’s goofy plot to use Kyle as bait to kill John instead of simply killing Kyle and preventing his existence. I just couldn’t get over that.
@@digitaldazzle5836 in the original Terminator, Skynet didn’t know who John’s father was because there were no records on him. Even with Sarah, they only had a name and a city. So the original T-800’s mission was to take out every woman with that name
What I've always commended and respected this film for was the use of real puppets for the humanoid terminators. It makes them feel much more real, tangible and therefore more intimidating. If you watch the behind the scenes, those puppets are so intricately designed with so much detail I can imagine it's honestly scary being near one even when it's lifeless. I don't know why it wasn't the norm to use them in other films. I imagine it would still be much cheaper than relying solely on CGI. It also helps the actors deliver stronger performances when the terminator that's menacingly crawling towards them is actually there on set.
Are we not going to talk about how that giant robot somehow snuck up on the humans at the gas station? No sound to get there, but when it rips the roof off, you hear all its servos whining. No comment about that?
I really quite enjoyed Salvation, personally, even as a huge fan of the earlier movies, and was really disappointed when it was not given a sequel to pad out what it had started... I best remember it though for the irony that it was the second recent (at the time) movie that Christian Bale's performance as the lead protagonist was upstaged by the antagonist (the other being Dark Knight, with the late Heath Ledger's amazing portrayal of the The Joker)...
The timeline does fit. This story fills out the storyline before the first story(1984) is told. This story is one potential future that leads to the 1984 story. The other storylines (T2, Dark Fate, Genesis, etc) are alternate outcomes stemming from the 1984 story, each becoming different realities as a result. The first story leading up to time travel has to occur first before the timelines can be created
The biggest problem the movie has, storyline wise, is that it contradicts what Kyle said in terminator 1 when he tells Sarah that they don't go out during the day
I think that can be easily worked around, though. You could just as easily argue that they stopped going out in the day as the Terminator and HK tech advanced. Just because he said they didn't go out during the day at the time doesn't inherently mean that this was always the case. Is it a contradiction? Technically, yes, but it's not a meaningful comtradiction
Almost exactly what I've been saying since 2009. I love Salvation, even though its main character doesn't belong there. And I thought the T-800 digital 1984 Arnold and fight scene, leaving John's face scarred, was excellent. Didn't need the heart analogy / heart transplant, again not needing Tinman Marcus. I also rank it 3rd live action, but like the original a bit better than T2. Zero is a contender for any of the top 4 slots, and the Sarah Connor Chronicles was better than T3 or those last two.
@@jim405 Probably why his career didn't really go anywhere. He got a few gigs mainly because he worked so cheaply compared to other stars. Then he fizzled out.
I really liked this film because it was set during the war - I just wanted it to cover more of the war campaign than it did to be honest! From the straggler survivors, linking up with Crystal Peak from T3, how they became a proper fighting force etc etc Good stuff but not enough of what really captured my imagination when I saw the opening sequences in T1 and T2.
Salvation, I think is the best of the sequels after T2. It has flaws, such as the addition of Sam Worthington’s character and the lack of an R-Rating but overall the film didn’t annoy me like T3 or T5 with silliness. T6 was a direct insult to the franchise. I wish we got a sequel to Salvation, McG seemed very passionate about the series. Unlike the other directors afterwards who just wanted a paycheck.
I loved it, and I wanted more. The T-600s were really cool. Oversized, and clunky. The T-800 was scary again. It certainly had a misstep or two, but I rewatch it 1-2 times a year
The iffy plot aside, the main issue of the film is it just didn't look or feel like the future war we saw in terminator 1 & 2, which is all we wanted from a film set during the future war.
Probably cause the war we see in 1 and 2 is towards the end of the conflict. Salvation is more towards the beginning of the war, with John Conner just starting to step into the role as leader of the Resistance. The T-800 is literally just a prototype by the time of Salvation.
I really liked the movie when it came out, even more so now... Never understood the hate. I really think they should have kept going with this as a series. If I recall they were meant to make a trilogy? Even a sequel. I think fans and producers are kicking themselves for scraping this with what we got after.
As a friend of my father said about Terminator Salvation: "We got a convoy here!" because some of the plot holes were so big you could drive a convoy of 18 wheelers through them. That being said, it was a fun romp.
It’s funny you’re onto this too. I’ve been revisiting this and frankly kept thinking “ why don’t I like this?” Because I actually do. Turns out I like watching it for all the things they tried to do. I always love the practical effects. And compared to the current state of movies I think it’s quite enjoyable. After much resistance I consider it cannon and happy to call it Terminator 4.
If they were going to make more Terminator movies after T2 they should have all been set in the future timeline before the events of the original Terminator, showing John becoming leader of the resistance, his friendship with Kyle Reese, and the final destruction of Skynet before Kyle and the T-800 are sent back to 1984 and 1995. That could have been a great post-apocalyptic trilogy.
I liked how Salvation portrayed the followers of Conner in a slight, this man knows the future, while also showing the rest of the military leadership as knowing of John, knowing that he gets stuff done but not trusting him and wanting to run things. A major change I would have made to Salvation was, when the humans were going on the final mission with the signal, instead of John getting everyone to stand down, he only got about half and the rest followed through with their orders. That would have sealed the leadership role for John in the next movie if they did one.
Saw this one at a drive-in theater in RI. Was awesome and is still a fond memory for me, while being infinitely better than anything that came afterward.
I definitely felt the same way back then when then movie came out. I wasn't disappointed at all, infact I felt it was better than Terminator 3. The fact we finally had a movie that was set in the future was a big deal to me, it's just a shame it didn't do that well at the box office.
This was the one that Christian Bale got a bad rap for. Apparently, he cused out a stage hand for ruining his performance, over and over again. Or something like that.
It started brilliantly and mostly was pretty damn good. I think it was let down by the massive robot and the ending. However all in all I really enjoyed it, especially the first two thirds.
Genisys and Dark Fate are not cannon in my eyes. T1, T2, T3, and Salvation are the only productions worth note in the franchise. I have a big issue with what they did to Sarah in Fate. Such a lost opportunity for the character. Don't get me started on what was done to John's character; my brain will bleed. :(
I remember really liking it, saying it was a step up in the right direction after T3, and was really hyped to watch a 5th and final film where the actual war would happen.
I remember watching this in the theater and being really disappointed that plasma rifles did not show up. The focus on Marcus was odd. I thought that eventually, towards the end, they find skynets plasma rifles and copy the tech. Never happens. Over the years I've grown to be ok with the film, but not having plasma rifles and not focusing more on John still irritates me
How can you not like this movie? ..back when popcorn summer movies were still a thing.. we didnt know how good we had it back then.. ..back when artists still made films and not activists.. ..hollywood may and well and be truly dead today, but in 2009, that shit was bussin'
Salvation played (to my mind, at least) like a direct sequel to Terminator 3. I did appreciate that they didn't (once again) alter Judgment Day itself. That said, I would have _strongly_ preferred a return of Nick Stahl as Connor. Bale literally _mumbled_ his way through the role. Additionally, Stahl bore a far stronger resemblance, both visibly and audibly, to Michael Biehn, while Bale lends zero 'family resemblance' factor between Reese and Connor.
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an underated film far better than the purposely made garbage new films from disney and others
I like how you avoided mentioning Discovery in the add read ❤ STD is no Star Trek in my book!
Terminator 3: Rise of the Machine was the first Terminator movie I loathed and despised.
James Cameron is working on a new Terminator film.
They took some liberties with the audience's fore-knowledge of the characters, causing them to be maybe less developed than they could have been. Other than that this movie gave us what many wanted, a look at the actual fight with Skynet, the sort of guts of what Terminator is all about. Sad about the other sequels, but maybe one day we could get another great one.
Terminator: Salvation compared to Dark Fate is a masterpiece.
And what do you mean Sam Worthington's story was superfluous? ..hes what the entire story is about.. John Connor is a secondary character, boomer...
Exactly
It wasn’t a bad movie, but it was a bad Terminator movie. The future lost all abstraction. It felt tame and suburban while trying to be the wasteland of the future
@@StayFractalesque And there´s a reason for that.
Originally in the final battle John Conner WOULD be killed by the the T-600.
Marcus Wright would then have John Conner´s face transplanted onto his and would take up the mantle of John Conner.
However the audience reacted negative towards this and so the ending was re shot into what we got.
@@Erikjust fair enough too that storyline sounds stupid.
That's like putting a Lamborghini body kit on a Toyota corolla and telling everyone its a legit Lamborghini.
It has flaws, but I'll take it over Sega Genesis and Dark Fate.
Sega Genesis?
:)
I had no idea what you meant by Sega Genesis, but then I remembered Genisys. Dark Fate was so amazingly bad that it made me forget the previous film!
@@barret-xiii that was the intention. The Sega Genesis was a masterpiece of a console that of course you zoomers don't know
@@Zontar82 Way to read into it from a completely obtuse angle, kiddo. I said I forgot Terminator Genisys even existed, because Dark Fate was so much worse. I grew up with the SNES, Genesis, N64, Gameboy, and PSX, not that it matters to even mention.
I thought it was awesome. I would have far preferred a sequel to this than Genisys or Dark Fate.
Honestly, Salvation was the first and only Terminator film I saw in a theater with my old man, and I liked it the first time I saw it. Now that I've seen what the Terminator series has become, I hold on to Salvation tighter than others...
I thought it was shit. But I agree.
Much better than either of what came after, and moreso than their original ending would’ve been in replacing John Connor with Marcus which would’ve been awful. Really seems John should’ve been the focus, Marcus not strictly necessary. Focusing on the terminator-human future war was the right call overall - more of that was and is the answer
Their is a sequel, but it's a comic
That's a low, low bar.
For me, Salvation is the best Terminator sequel after T2. It has a great aesthetic and finally moves the story into the post-war future while continuing some of the threads from the last one. Whereas all the other sequels keep doing retcon continuations.
Christian Bale is great casting for John Connor, with the film choosing to focus on his rise and building up his legend, rather than throwing us into the thick of things. Anton Yelchin is also great as a young Kyle Reese and embodies the character far more than Jai in the next movie. The fan service is also well done, with it referencing things from the past films without being too in your face like most movies now.
The biggest problem for me is the focus on Markus as a Point of View Character, which makes sense given the original ending. Though, I'm glad they changed it, because otherwise we would've gotten a fan reaction similar to Dark Fate years earlier.
If any Terminator movie besides 2 gets another sequel, I'd prefer this with Bale returning as John Conner at the height of the resistance.
Did you also love The Last Jedi?
@@Conserpovthat movie betrayed the previous movie and the lore, this movie did not
@@ninjanibba4259
It did too, just a bit more subtly.
@@Conserpov how?
@@ninjanibba4259
For one, compare the future shown and described in T1/T2 to this ridiculous thing in Salvation. That's just on the lore side.
More importantly, it undermines the whole genre and style. The writing is extremely puerile and PG-13, it is zoomer oriented and written by.
Salvation is not a Terminator movie, it is "YA coming of age fantasy" with robots. Like Transformers. It is superficial and CGI action oriented, not character-driven. It is the opposite of profound.
It's a shame they never carried forth with Salvation's Trilogy idea. It sounds like it would have been better than what we got.
Love or hate this movie, Christian Bale as John Connor is genius casting.
ohhhhhh, good for you…
Don't shut me up😂@@Sam_T2000
RIP THESE FUCKING LIGHTS DOWN
I thought that young Kyle Reese was the best possible casting this movie could have gotten
His rant was the best thing about this film.
Genuinely did not mind Salvation because it did not infringe or retcon the first two movies, while expanding on the universe. I would have far preferred if they skipped T3 and went straight to Salvation, sure it didn't approach the first two films, but it had far more potential.
I think Salvation missed the mark by a decade. . .
Should have set it for the first few weeks after Judgement Day. . . Before humans realize Skynet is an enemy. . Loss of global communication after nuclear bombs going off. . . Humans not knowing whose flying the drones opening fire on civilians. . . The dawning of comprehension of "what happened"
Could have been great.
PREACH
this movie shit on t3s horrible cheese
it was dark tried to be serious and just did the skynet bots better
They should have adapted the SM Stirling novels, which start immediately after T2, into movies. Those would have been brilliant and allowed Ahhhnold to play both terminators and the CIA agent/merc that the 800's were based on, fighting terminators alongside Sarah and young John.
100% agree - they should have scrapped T3 entirely and put this movie in it's place. T3 was so awful it almost defies belief tbh!!
I would never want T3 not to be made - I loved it. T3 is actually far darker than Salvation, I guess the 3 or 4 lines of cheesy jokes were the failed attempt to balance it but just try to ignore those lines and you'll see what I'm talking about....Salvation in fact is not dark at all, except the color scheme but in story, not really just a regular sci-fi, though a good one definitely.
It also has Michael Ironside doing Michael Ironside things... 🤣
Summarized about as well as could be summarized!
😂 I just assumed that's who he is in real life. Plays the same character in everything and yet he still awesome.
Oh man I forgot Ironside was in it!! Have you watched The Director's Cut?! So good.
YES!!! That is always great.
Always a good thing😎
This movie is once again, VASTLY underrated. Thanks for giving us your review of the film. Glad to know this film is getting recognition it deserves. This is one of the best Terminator films and my favorite of the first 4.
Im thinking of recreating the T 800 scene in SFM, only its Twilight as the Terminator and Sunset as John's role.
@@MLPDethDealr32 That's a nice take for the characters.
Wow no judgement from me but it is incredibly rare when someone says salvation is their favorite terminator movie.
@@calisthenicsmachine9725it is mine too it feels like they’re actually moving the story
I liked this movie. They had really cool designs and finally moved on from the present. I was sick of the formula of having a terminator guardian. It was about the war and John finally accepting his role as leader of the resistance.
Oh hi Yusuke. 👋 (And yes I like this movie too)
Christian Bale was rumoured to have travelled forward in time to 2018 in order to prepare for the role.
😂
Talk about dedication! 👍
He came back and said....there's an infinite number of genders!
@@dixon4184 LOL
The real reason why there wasn't a sequel to this movie, is that it's not the box office performance, but rather the company who made it, The Halcyon Company went out of business and filed for bankruptcy in 2013
That’s too bad, cause a continuation of the film would’ve been awesome
I would have loved to see more movies with Christian Bale's John Connor showing his continued rise through the ranks, the technological advancement of weaponry, and the escalation of the war.
Whatever problems Salvation had, it actually continued the story. I would've loved to see that story continued. Instead, the next movie put the franchise on an infinite loop so that the story will never be completed.
I loved this one.. I never understood the hate... Was hoping at the time to get a whole trilogy set in the future world!
Also, I totally agree with your ranking of the films!
I feel the best way to watch these movies is:
Number one
Number two
and then a Choose Your Own Adventure of picking whichever one of the sequels you want to watch after that.
Excluding Genisys of course.
They should rename it "Terminator: At least it's not Dark Fate"
Terminator: at least it's not the trash movies? lolz
@@judgedrekk2981
Except it is too. Just a tad better than Dark Fate
@@Conserpov there's only 2 Terminator movies and it's the first 2 there are no others in existence....NONE....
there's a generic sci-fi apoco movie claiming to be terminator and 2 insults also claiming to be part of the series but there are only 2 terminator movies! lolz
If they name the next one that, I might be inclined to watch it. At the very least, they would have an understanding of their target audience.
The biggest problem was that the Marcus plot twist was spoiled in the trailer.
I think most of us would have preferred Marcus’ cyborg reveal to have been a shock to the audience.
It also didn’t help that Marcus’ character really doesn’t change. He’s the same person in his prison cell that he is smashing the chair through a Skynet window….we never even find out what his crime was, only that his actions caused the deaths of his brother and two cops.
That’s kind of important when the theme of the movie is salvation.
I wouldn't say he hasn't changed. Funny thing, if you read his charges when they are very quickly shown while he's talking to skynet (Helen Bonham Carter) towards the end of the movie it says that he brutally murdered his brother and several cops.
@@joeynova3550I think that what Edward is saying is that, for all that gets said about Marcus pre-becoming a cyborg, nothing is shown to contrast his change at the end.
For example it could have been shown early that he was selfish and always just looking after himself, loosening up over the course of the movie as he spends time with Reese. However he was helping others all throughout the movie so, when it comes time to sacrifice himself at the end, it is not out of character at all as he has been doing that all movie.
Had a contrast been established between him at the beginning and end of the movie an arc would have been created, rather than just being a flat character throughout.
@@MegaRayland in a way he kind of was, forcing a kiss on the girl with cancer trying to get him to sign the papers. I don't think they made it really obvious but it definitely shows him changing throughout the movie. He was about to leave Kyle and Star to die but then changed his mind at the last minute. The way I saw that was that he was already well on his way to becoming a better person when he's introduced in the beginning of the movie.
Every Terminator movie was spoiled in the trailers. It's a running theme. The Terminator (1984) begins with the expectation that the audience and Sarah Connor don't know which is the terminator, but if you were watching it for the first time in theaters after seeing the trailer, there's no question.
_"Arnold Schwarzenegger is The Terminator."_ And every movie since has been betrayed by its trailers.
true, no character depth
I actually really liked it. Was disappointed we didn't see the rest of the future war.
People often forget that Bryce Dallas Howard was Mrs John Connor here, which is why when she directed episodes of The Mandalorian, the Night of a Thousand Tears looks like a tribute to to the Terminator movies
Great coverage. I like Salvation and my only problem is the older Cyborg tech seems to be more advanced than the later Terminators.
I also find it interesting that the original ending to the movie was that John’s was carried out but his heart wasn’t holding up. Before he died, he recorded key updates of the future he knew from Sarah along with the rest of the cassettes she had left him. Kate came up with the suggestion that Marcus underwent an operation to essentially wear John’s skin and they don’t tell anyone John had died. Marcus agreed and became the new John Connor which is how he was able destroy Terminators so effectively.
Ultimately though, that ending tested poorly with test audiences on the basis they didn’t like the idea of John dying or being turned in to a terminator in any way. It’s ironic that years later they tried both of those concepts in 2 separate movies. Clearly they didn’t learn from Salvations test audience.
I heard they changed the ending just because it got leaked. And because they is dumdums so they'd rather change it to a lesser ending than have a spoiled one.
The one thing I m very grateful to about Terminator Salvation is that it brought to life the infamous and hilarious Christian Bale rant.
I've listened to that many times. "Man your amateur!" 😂
I can totally understand how distracting it might be to have someone walking around in the background while I’m trying to do a scene. Perhaps the DP was only checking the lights but he was apparently too close.
“Oh, gooooooood for you……”
We’ve all had moments where we want to go off the way he did. Just watching someone actually do it is the most hilarious thing ever.
and its subsequent Family Guy parody
Little known fact, Christian Bale actually joined a set of freedoms fighters, became their leader, faught a war and time travelled into the future to do this role properly.
THAT'S dedication.
He's very method
It’s also the movie that Bale lost his shit, with his now famous tirade at some poor lighting rigger.
@@JohnJackson-mn4tsthe lighting rigger that was a royal pain in the arse, bale should have knocked him out instead of reprimanding him
Shame about the accent though.
Man, I'm right there with ya Dave! I've covered sci-fi film and TV professionally for a decade, went to film school and have sold and optioned scripts in Hollywood and have NEVER understood the hate for Terminator: Salvation. The Director's Cut is killer! The movie has a compelling cast, an interesting story that explains how the John Connor story is really partly a Marcus Wright story, it's got the Harvester robot, cool cycle-bots, and those frightening scenes in the Skynet factory. I have no clue, honestly! Love the T-600s in the desolated streets recoiling after they fire their heavy guns! The score is great, and even Bryce Dallas Howard turns in a decent performance! And how about that boss TRAILER using NIN's The Day the World Went Away?!! We have forgotten how good we all had it.
Fun fact: the entire Marcus story line is a left over from a previous iteration of the script which saw JC die and Marcus surgically alter his face to take over the role of JC in a “the idea of John is more important than the actual guy” twist. The reason they left the story in the final movie was because they had already signed Sam Worthington on behest of James Cameron
This movie had the right idea, but the wrong execution. It cleanly broke away from the whole time travel schtick from the original two films and established a premise set in the future war itself. Problem is, they should've made John the leader of the resistance like he should've been and end the movie with the resistance winning, Skynet sending their first terminator back to 1984 and the resistance sending Kyle. Everything comes full circle.
I'd also add that Sam Worthington simply isn't a good actor or leading man material.
@@franohmsford7548 Absolute Rubbish, Sam Worthington is a damn good actor when he's given decent material to work with. 🐁
Exactly. It was the right direction to go but it should have looked more like the awesome future war we saw in flashforwards int he first two films and why on earth was the focus on a character we've never heard of before who then gets killed off at the end anyway! They were never going to make Salvation end with the resistance winning though as that then creates a dead end for the series and they wanted a trilogy at least to carry the series forward.
John Connor became the leader at the end when the resistance refuse the orders given from the military leaders. From my point of view it makes sense that at the beginn of the war the military is in charge (when this movie take place) and not some guy who says he knows what will happen.
What i didn't like on salvation is from where does Skynet already know who John Connor is even if he doesn't play a big role in the resistance... And far worse why Skynet knows who Kyle Reese is (The only one who knows how important Kyle Reese will be is John and that should be the reason why he doesn't scream it around)! But in the end i really liked salvation and i wished they had finished the 2 sequels of salvation than genisys or dark fart!
And sorry my english isn't perfect so i hope i didn't write complete nonsense!?
@@dukeboomer9282 Since this is a sequel to Terminator 3 I would say that the TX is likely responsible for how Skynet knew about John as she was from the future as well and did interface with the internet of the time to get her target list with that dial up like tone she did on her mobile. It would make sense that at the same time she may have left data packets on the net for the Skynet at that time to find so it could learn how to defeat him.
I just don’t get why they didn’t go for the Cameron future war look. All I wanted was a blue filtered skull littered wasteland with purple laser beams.
Exactly. They abandoned that for "generic apocalypse movie".
They wanted it to look like the Middle East in order to be relevant or something. Hated it. The laser beams were explained though, as Judgment Day happens a decade earlier than it's supposed to which is why Conner is desperate to destroy the new Terminator facility because they don't have the weapons yet that can stop them.
It's in thr same time-line, just far earlier. It's much more realistic as the beginning parts of the war shen humanity still has some jets and submarines... Eventually Skynet will build terminators and develop laser weapons that humans will scrouge up but humans will have been messaged, losing their planes and whatnot.
I think the idea was that they hadn't gotten to that point yet. Maybe this is pure speculation on my part, but it felt like they were trying to go for an in-between point that they intended to build toward with future movies (that never materialized).
They had one job!
This movie has grown on me over the years. I like it. I don't especially think of it as a Terminator movie. More like a stand alone sci-fi movie. It dared to at least break out and do it's own thing.
Watch The Director's Cut!! And hope the Harvester robot is not lurking outside!
The next movie could've been 3 hours and covered John becoming leader of the Resistance. Then the end war.
Honestly, the concept of the movie was pretty refreshing and what the series should have continued with instead of repeating itself
The last good Terminator Movie. After that came Genishit and Dark Fart.
Must have missed those. I remember GENISYS and DARK FATE though.
As several other movies from the late 2000s, it was mediocre back then but is now a masterpiece compared to what we get today.
Absolutely. I came here to leave this same comment and you already had.
It's really not that good
@@joshxip Name a scifi/action/adventure movie from the last 6-8 years you think is better. (Please don't say Dune..)
@SomeNorwegianGuy I'm not sure if these count, but Ad Astra Blade runner 2049, High Life, arrival, annihilation, john wick 2,3 etc ...
I agree with your sentiment, though that terminator salvation is a very mediocre film- which is what my original comment was referring to
It's only viewed as a masterpiece compared to other current modern films? Nostalgia bait isn't what makes a film good
I don't mind it. It at least tried to do something different . I rank the Terminator movies exactly as you do.
"It at least tried to do something different" - that excuse is well past it's expiration date.
@@mattstorm6568 no
@@gilbert8162 Yes.
I always liked this one as it was the first time the war itself took the centre stage but the biggest problem with Terminator is it will always be judged by T2 standards. An impossible bar to beat.
The company that held the rights to the Terminator franchise, Halcyon, went bankrupt and that’s why there wasn’t a proper follow up to Salvation.
I was a fan of the movie when it came out. It needed sequels and I liked Christian Bale as John Connor. It is criminally underrated.
I remember 2009, setting up my pc,
Stereo and couch. We watched 1,2 and 3 back to back. Went to the cinema to see 4 and it was so different to what we expected. Years later rewatching it, it was a better experience.
It came about just before the woke tsunami hit.
I dont know about that, there are definitely some elements of "THE MESSAGE" in there...
Most obvious are the "I need to figure out who I am" plot, and a "diverse" (and disabled AND has a special power!) young girl who presumably represents the future of the resistance
There was Woke stuff in movies before then. There was definitely much less of it in this movie.
There was nothing forced about it...
What ways can anyone include those elements these days before people get outraged about it?
Won't say "just" before, the enforcement levels of wokism I felt happened some time after 2015. Maybe 2017. (Year of the last jedi and CW flash season 3. That was when I felt that the narrative and structure of most of my beloved franchise started to die in favour of "the message")
@@jongodsey8472small, naturally occurring not forced, amounts were fine. Now they’re shoved in everywhere and people are rejecting all of it now. Tried to have “equality”, but that was taken advantage of and abused, now none of it is ok.
Fun fact: the original draft of the script had a twist ending where John Connor actually dies, and Marcus has his skin replaced with John's to assume his identity and lead the resistance in his place.
Maybe there's a way that could have been done well, but that just sounded cheap. I didn't see it for a while after it was in theaters because I heard that was going to be the ending. That's comes off like the same kind of bs that Dark Fate pulled, kill off John Connor and then replace him as the leader saving humanity from the Machines with some random person who has nothing to do with the original. In Dark Fate, it was a woman because girl power, in Salvation, it would have been done because Sam Worthington was the flavor of the month (no disrespect to him because I kinda like him in everything I've seen him in, but that's absolutely why they wanted to make him the lead instead of John Connor). I think they ultimately made the right choice, though I like the idea another commenter had that they should have harvested more than Markus's heart and made John Connor part Terminator in the same way Markus was in order to keep him alive. That would have made some interesting possibilities for the story if they chose to continue that storyline.
Guess ‘salvation’ makes more sense with that ending
Considering what came after, this was "King Lear". 15 years later, the crap the comes out now makes this film look mighty fine!
I totally agree with the order you ranked the films. There should be a trilogy before 'Judgement Day' and a trilogy after. Genisys and Dark Fate should never have been made. They serve no purpose except to milk the franchise, make the studios more money on a tired tried and tested formula, and 'reimagine the story for a modern audience'. They are not canon, mess up the continuity, and offer nothing original. If Cameron is really going to make another one, Salvation is the movie he needs to go back to and start from it's end.
Salvation is the REAL T3, as the real T3 it continues T2, at worst, it would have potentially ended the franchise, the Sarah Conner Chronicles is AMAZING if you like Terminator and want to see Sarah and John only a few years past T2. T2-Infiltrator is an excellent book.
I do still love the book trilogy
Agreed. Salvation would have made a far better T3, and explored previously untouched concepts and parts of the franchise. T3 was a mistake. Genesis, honestly probably just as bad and as much of a mistake as T3. Dark fate, I wouldn't even consider bad fan fiction - amateur larping at best.
Yep, for me this is where the Franchise ends. T1,T2, and Salvation.
From what I heard, Salvation basically ignores T3 the way X-Men DOFP ignores X-Men 3.
@@darwinxavier3516 Days of Future Past and Wolverine are both built upon a terrible world caused by X3 lol
It was far better than the latest terminator movies. Or any other movie released lately.
remove Terminator, make all the robots more generic looking and re-release this and yes it's a decent movie, also change some character names, Conner and Reise mainly....
it'd then just be a generic dystopia movie and it'd be pretty good on it's own! might even launch it's own series that way lol
@@judgedrekk2981 it may have removed some of the mystery and legend of the war between humanity and skynet but it was still decent. Plus, it's still a whole heck of a lot better than the last two terminator films.
Which ist quite easy
The appearance of the CGI-Arnold T-800 was worth the ticket price alone.
Along with the T2 score…..brilliant!
Interestingly, there wasn't that much CGI. Austrian bodybuilder Roland Kickinger was a doppelganger for young Arnold. They did a few tweaks to make the face look right, and did a fine job of it.
This is what they should have done with Arnold in the other movies, just make a younger CGI version of him, with his voiceover. The geriatric Terminator storyline was one of the many negatives in Genysis and dark fart
Terminator Salvation should have been the last movie in the franchise. It should have been lasers, battles, learning Skynet's weaknesses, defeating the rogue AI, and ending the film by sending Kyle Reece back in time to save Sarah Connor.
That was the idea but it originally was supposed to be a trilogy.
After playing Terminator: Resistance, I developed an appreciation for this film. The whole timeline of the War Against SkyNet is a huge market. If there was a sequel, I really feel like we could have seen the Resistance closer to when SkyNet is destroyed in 2029. That is the visual gap between semi-modern military tech and the jump to plasma warfare.
I still remember Christian Bale's leaked on set rant. It's still legendary to this day.
Oh good for you.
"Trash your lights" wasn't entirely unwarranted.
The movie had great potential and they should have focused more on the relationship between John and Reese but it was 2009, so they had to force insert Sam "zero charisma but Hollywood likes me" Worthington into the film...
Hey, I'll take Sam Worthington ANY day over that tree (no, not Brie Larson) who is Jai Courtney.
It woulda been great if they just focused on Christian Bales John Connor. This movie got bundled into with Hollywoods obsession to push Sam Worthington as the next big star.
In my opinion he was the best best thing about the movie.
Sam was bieng pushed so hard in Hollywood and I never liked him I really didn't like when he played an American it just didn't work.
@@springwoodslasher79I’m not saying avatar is a well written film but when Sam Worthington reads his lines, it just takes me out of it because of his acting.
Dave - I just remember it being boring. the worst sin for a terminator movie.
I have always liked salvation. No mind blowing or revolutionary movie, as you said, just a good time. Modern movies have often made me go back to older films and give them the Thanos line, “Perhaps I treated you too harshly.”
Also the CG in salvation is masterful compared to todays detritus. Yeah CG Arnold is a bit rough but he is still better than floating kid head in Thor 4.
I think the biggest weakness of the movie hands down was the silly Sam Worthington not knowing he's a terminator plotline instead of having John Connor be the protagonist as he's basically a side character in this.
He is a side character though. He's just the leader of his local cell and even the higher ups in the Resistance don't listen to him. He becomes leader at the end and Marcus is dead, so the sequels would have been about him (and I guess Kate since she takes over after his death).
That is MY particular opinion, as well. It was a weaker story, due to the Marcus storyline, and not enough John Connor. The film wasn't tightly written, as were T1 and T2. But... I like it enough to purchase it.
I don't even admit to any of the other films.
I enjoyed this film, certainly looking back it is far better than what came later.
I absolutely agree with that, Just like with star wars and everything else
I thought it was good! Just impossible to stand in the shadow of a perfect film in Terminator 2: Judgement Day. If that film isn't in the top 5 movies of all the time then there's something wrong.
I guess something is wrong then, because that redundant rehash doesn't even make it into my top 100 films.
@@lonelyboy1977 I would agree it's not in my top 100 either. it's still not shit though which is the point.
Terminator Salvation is the only movie in the franchise that does not involve with any time travel
I always really liked Salvation, and never understood why it was so maligned. As you said the Sam W character is weak, but there are lots of pluses that outweigh that. Good video.
The crazy backstory of this movie was about the changing of the ending due to the backlash of a Drew McWeeny article covering the story leak: evidently John Connor was going to die in the original ending. The story then continuing with John Connor's face being transplanted onto that hybrid Terminator.
Obviously the fan base went ballistic with the news leak so the powers that be made a last minute change to the story: heart transplant surgery in the middle of a war zone.
That would have been a great ending with his face transplanted on the cyborg.
It definitely would have had thematic irony. The hero of humanity being a minor nobody in life only to become a legend in death after he’s replaced with a robot. Skynet creating the instrument of its own downfall. In future installments you could over hear people retelling larger than life stories about John Conner’s achievements and writing them off as chuck norris level exaggeration except a robot wearing John conners face totally could lift a truck off some rookies legs, or tank a direct hit from a phase plasma riffle.
That was the great issue back then, as I recall (aside from a few glaring plotholes). Everyone was pissed that they tried to kill off John.
A better fix to the script would have been to have John need to be saved by making him a terminator like Marcus vs being replaced by Marcus. Then you have something interesting to work with. Blurring the lines about identity & whether it’s still really John. John leading the Resistance, now with some huge advantages, but with a dark secret in future installments, since no one in the Resistance would trust anyone with any bit of machine in them.
I’ve always thought the original ending would have been so much better.
You guys are crazy.
15 Years AGO!???
WTF I am closing in FAST on "TERMINATION" ...
F*ck
I think everyone wanted the future world depicted in the original movies, laser beams and all. While it wasn't a bad movie per se. The fact that it didn't have that template was deeply disappointing to me
Me too. I wanted Resistance Technicals firing lasers, not fighter planes!
Blue tint and lasers.👍
What people forget about is that this was meant to be trilogy, that would have progressed to the flashback scenes. This movie takes chronologicaly quite some time before the future war scenes, and Skynet was evolving.
@@lihkan I know that, but I didn't see a credible progression. And their 2018 didn't really fit with how Reese described Connor breaking them out of the death camps where Reese had been shovelling bodies.
yep! it looked more dangerous and perilous to venture out but also looked so much cooler...
the first 2 movies future scenes all cut together is fantastic stuff.....no dialog just score music, I love it, someone actually did this awhile back
My only gripe was A, they didn't have the phased plasma rifles shooting purplish-pink lasers and B, the fact that they spent their time outside in daylight when Reese said in T1 that you stay down by day but at night you can move around; that last one likely changed due to time-travel shenanigans but still it's something to keep in mind, otherwise it was a decent enjoyable film IMHO.
Look at the age of Reese in this film...there's obviously several years to go before you get to the Reese in the first film, so the war situation will have changed by then.
I had a blast working on this film, especially before things went to woke.
It was good times back then.
The thing is during this cinematic period we were all spoiled for choice we took movies for granted thinking how much better they can only ever get as the years go on. Oh how we were all wrong…
Previous year we got The Dark Knight and Iron Man. When Salvation wasn't as good as those we said to McG "that's it, you and me, we are done, professionally." But then, we got Genisys and Dark Fate.
@@mvprime8 TKD was overrated meandering garbage.
@@JDoe-gf5ozI respect your right to be wrong.
I liked salvation. Was bummed that it was abandoned. Nice review 🍻
It would've been much better if they hadn't spoiled the twist in the trailer. A very solid sci fi action film.
What twist? I remember watching the trailer and not being upset about being spoiled on anything.
@@digitaldazzle5836 in the preview they spoiled that Marcus had a Terminator skeleton. While watching the movie if you didn't know what he was, it might be a surprise when you see the mine stick to his leg for the first time.
That’s kind of a recurring theme in the terminator franchise.
You look at the framing of John Conner encountering the t800 and running to the t1000 and it looks like a classic bait and switch for the audience expectations. And guess what scene was in the theatrical trailer. Then of course we can’t forget the John Conner nannite terminator that was revealed in the trailer for genesis.
@@joeynova3550 He dies before the opening titles even run. It's not much of a twist.
It would have been awesome if Terminator 3 was in the Terminator 2 future. So it follows John Connor as the human resistance general. There could be some major battle scenes and so forth. The story would also follow Reece and how he climbed the ranks in Connor's army. There would also be scenes how the resistance tries to reverse engineer Skynet's technology. So in the end the human resistance is getting wiped out. Massive casualties. In the last push John and Reece go into Skynet and infiltrate it's time machine. John reveals to Reece he is his father and he pushes him into the machine. While at the same the time portal is still open, two T-800's and a T-1000 sprint through the burning infrastructure and dive in. A dying Connor listens to his ear com. Command's last message comes through in a static broken female voice. They thank him for his service, and they inform him Uncle Bob successfully went through.
Anton Yelchin is the saving grace of this film. He was taken from us too soon.
I always liked it. It's kinda like the Halloween 3 of the Terminator franchise.
I like Halloween 3.
@@anubusx same
I have no recollection of what youre talking about. The terminator story clearly ended with Terminator 2. They couldnt make any more movies after that.
Yes. It ended with that ending of Sarah looking at her grandchildren
Ooh, so edgy
Yes
Sure if you want to....but you're really missing out. Especially if you go in with low expectations!
Definitely .
I also appreciated what they were trying to do in T:S as I had been waiting for a movie set in the post-apocalyptic future for decades.
My main issue with T:S was that Skynet knew that Kyle Reese was John Conner’s father. Then on top of that, it’s goofy plot to use Kyle as bait to kill John instead of simply killing Kyle and preventing his existence.
I just couldn’t get over that.
What are you talking about? It would not have changed anything in that universe.
@@digitaldazzle5836 in the original Terminator, Skynet didn’t know who John’s father was because there were no records on him. Even with Sarah, they only had a name and a city. So the original T-800’s mission was to take out every woman with that name
That's always the same kind of problem with time travel plots.
@@Matthew_Paul this was actually very simple though. Skynet should not know who Kyle was.
Sarah told the authorities everything when she was in the asylum. I don't think it would be too hard for skynet to dig up those records.
What I've always commended and respected this film for was the use of real puppets for the humanoid terminators. It makes them feel much more real, tangible and therefore more intimidating. If you watch the behind the scenes, those puppets are so intricately designed with so much detail I can imagine it's honestly scary being near one even when it's lifeless. I don't know why it wasn't the norm to use them in other films. I imagine it would still be much cheaper than relying solely on CGI. It also helps the actors deliver stronger performances when the terminator that's menacingly crawling towards them is actually there on set.
Are we not going to talk about how that giant robot somehow snuck up on the humans at the gas station? No sound to get there, but when it rips the roof off, you hear all its servos whining. No comment about that?
There's something just as nonsensical going on in every single scene. It's pretty much like TLJ.
The thing was put there from the air, last I checked. Did not go by ground. So there is that.
@@mercenaryknight5419
That's just as bad, "Daenerys not seeing the fleet" kind of bad
@@Conserpovthey kind of forget how ears work 😂
I really quite enjoyed Salvation, personally, even as a huge fan of the earlier movies, and was really disappointed when it was not given a sequel to pad out what it had started... I best remember it though for the irony that it was the second recent (at the time) movie that Christian Bale's performance as the lead protagonist was upstaged by the antagonist (the other being Dark Knight, with the late Heath Ledger's amazing portrayal of the The Joker)...
I think his behind the scenes rant up staged his fine onscreen acting
The timeline does fit. This story fills out the storyline before the first story(1984) is told. This story is one potential future that leads to the 1984 story. The other storylines (T2, Dark Fate, Genesis, etc) are alternate outcomes stemming from the 1984 story, each becoming different realities as a result. The first story leading up to time travel has to occur first before the timelines can be created
The biggest problem the movie has, storyline wise, is that it contradicts what Kyle said in terminator 1 when he tells Sarah that they don't go out during the day
Thank you !
Yep.
I think that can be easily worked around, though. You could just as easily argue that they stopped going out in the day as the Terminator and HK tech advanced. Just because he said they didn't go out during the day at the time doesn't inherently mean that this was always the case. Is it a contradiction? Technically, yes, but it's not a meaningful comtradiction
Kyle said "You stay down by day, but at night, you can move around. The H-K's use infrared so you still have to watch out." So not quite.
That's later on when Kyle is an adult!! When things have gotten worse.
I agree. In my imaginary cannon. T1,T2,T-Salvation is my three Terminator movie trilogy.
Almost exactly what I've been saying since 2009. I love Salvation, even though its main character doesn't belong there. And I thought the T-800 digital 1984 Arnold and fight scene, leaving John's face scarred, was excellent. Didn't need the heart analogy / heart transplant, again not needing Tinman Marcus.
I also rank it 3rd live action, but like the original a bit better than T2. Zero is a contender for any of the top 4 slots, and the Sarah Connor Chronicles was better than T3 or those last two.
Sam worthington was a bad choice. He is so boring. Maybe they should have concentrated on bale.
Wooden acting and an unnecessary plot line. Good movie though.
He had about as much charisma as Great Value’s mild salsa, it might look the part but you can sure taste a difference
@@jim405 Probably why his career didn't really go anywhere. He got a few gigs mainly because he worked so cheaply compared to other stars. Then he fizzled out.
I completely disagree. He was awesome! A total man's man. I guess if you grew up in the city and with a single mother I can understand otherwise.
They needed the leaders of the Resistance to be killed earlier and show John become the supreme leader before this ended.
It wasn't great when it was released but now when two other were released it is holding it place way above those. And only imho above 3rd instalment.
I really liked this film because it was set during the war - I just wanted it to cover more of the war campaign than it did to be honest! From the straggler survivors, linking up with Crystal Peak from T3, how they became a proper fighting force etc etc Good stuff but not enough of what really captured my imagination when I saw the opening sequences in T1 and T2.
Salvation, I think is the best of the sequels after T2.
It has flaws, such as the addition of Sam Worthington’s character and the lack of an R-Rating but overall the film didn’t annoy me like T3 or T5 with silliness. T6 was a direct insult to the franchise.
I wish we got a sequel to Salvation, McG seemed very passionate about the series. Unlike the other directors afterwards who just wanted a paycheck.
Your voice is one of the few I can take in on a hungover day... thank you 🙏🏼
I loved it, and I wanted more. The T-600s were really cool. Oversized, and clunky.
The T-800 was scary again.
It certainly had a misstep or two, but I rewatch it 1-2 times a year
The iffy plot aside, the main issue of the film is it just didn't look or feel like the future war we saw in terminator 1 & 2, which is all we wanted from a film set during the future war.
Probably cause the war we see in 1 and 2 is towards the end of the conflict. Salvation is more towards the beginning of the war, with John Conner just starting to step into the role as leader of the Resistance. The T-800 is literally just a prototype by the time of Salvation.
This was 13 or so years before what you saw from the earlier movies.
I enjoyed it. Just wish it had the look of the flashback/forwards from the first 2 films.
I really liked the movie when it came out, even more so now... Never understood the hate. I really think they should have kept going with this as a series. If I recall they were meant to make a trilogy? Even a sequel. I think fans and producers are kicking themselves for scraping this with what we got after.
As a friend of my father said about Terminator Salvation: "We got a convoy here!" because some of the plot holes were so big you could drive a convoy of 18 wheelers through them.
That being said, it was a fun romp.
It’s funny you’re onto this too. I’ve been revisiting this and frankly kept thinking “ why don’t I like this?” Because I actually do. Turns out I like watching it for all the things they tried to do. I always love the practical effects. And compared to the current state of movies I think it’s quite enjoyable. After much resistance I consider it cannon and happy to call it Terminator 4.
If they were going to make more Terminator movies after T2 they should have all been set in the future timeline before the events of the original Terminator, showing John becoming leader of the resistance, his friendship with Kyle Reese, and the final destruction of Skynet before Kyle and the T-800 are sent back to 1984 and 1995. That could have been a great post-apocalyptic trilogy.
I liked how Salvation portrayed the followers of Conner in a slight, this man knows the future, while also showing the rest of the military leadership as knowing of John, knowing that he gets stuff done but not trusting him and wanting to run things.
A major change I would have made to Salvation was, when the humans were going on the final mission with the signal, instead of John getting everyone to stand down, he only got about half and the rest followed through with their orders. That would have sealed the leadership role for John in the next movie if they did one.
Saw this one at a drive-in theater in RI. Was awesome and is still a fond memory for me, while being infinitely better than anything that came afterward.
even blade runner 2049 did have a box - office success but some how people are starting to understand what a gem, it is!
I definitely felt the same way back then when then movie came out. I wasn't disappointed at all, infact I felt it was better than Terminator 3. The fact we finally had a movie that was set in the future was a big deal to me, it's just a shame it didn't do that well at the box office.
This was the one that Christian Bale got a bad rap for. Apparently, he cused out a stage hand for ruining his performance, over and over again. Or something like that.
It started brilliantly and mostly was pretty damn good.
I think it was let down by the massive robot and the ending.
However all in all I really enjoyed it, especially the first two thirds.
Genisys and Dark Fate are not cannon in my eyes. T1, T2, T3, and Salvation are the only productions worth note in the franchise. I have a big issue with what they did to Sarah in Fate. Such a lost opportunity for the character. Don't get me started on what was done to John's character; my brain will bleed. :(
I remember really liking it, saying it was a step up in the right direction after T3, and was really hyped to watch a 5th and final film where the actual war would happen.
Agreed, I like it well enough, and also wish they had a sequel.
I remember watching this in the theater and being really disappointed that plasma rifles did not show up. The focus on Marcus was odd. I thought that eventually, towards the end, they find skynets plasma rifles and copy the tech. Never happens. Over the years I've grown to be ok with the film, but not having plasma rifles and not focusing more on John still irritates me
How can you not like this movie? ..back when popcorn summer movies were still a thing.. we didnt know how good we had it back then.. ..back when artists still made films and not activists.. ..hollywood may and well and be truly dead today, but in 2009, that shit was bussin'
the orignal plot was about skynet usan human machine hybrids...
Salvation played (to my mind, at least) like a direct sequel to Terminator 3. I did appreciate that they didn't (once again) alter Judgment Day itself.
That said, I would have _strongly_ preferred a return of Nick Stahl as Connor. Bale literally _mumbled_ his way through the role. Additionally, Stahl bore a far stronger resemblance, both visibly and audibly, to Michael Biehn, while Bale lends zero 'family resemblance' factor between Reese and Connor.
I agree with that,I don’t mind Bale as an actor but Nick Stahl fit the role much better.