In an age of instant access to almost all the knowledge in the world, why do we insist on memorisation and testing of facts. Surely our future lies in mental and practical skills: critical thinking, debate, co-operation, research, creativity, communication, ... dancing.
I'm not sure but it seems to me that the two men who for the motion -- Mr. Hunt and Mr. Little -- all they did was propose ideas. They just seemed to appeal to emotions and saying that we need to be creating a "Better" way. Whilst Miss. Christodoiulou and Mr. Toby did seem to present themselves with research and facts.
Pretty disappointing that people who had so much authority of teaching are bigger fans of story telling and eliciting emotions rather than fact based reasoning.
When i started to watch the vid I was for the motion, when I finished it I was against. I think I was for the motion initially because I've subconsiously recollected all my memories of the recent media and advertisement coverage arguing that tests suck. But I never heard the opposing argument to why tests are good until now
Artyom Arty I realize that you said this over a year ago, but if you might recall, what is it that changed your mind? I personally saw the "for" argument as much more convincing and thoughtful.
+Karlo Schallibaum Yeah those might need to be improved. This is the biggest force that shuts down creativity and the ability to reason outside the standard. Why? Because multiple choice question and answers imply that there is only one CORRECT answer, but most brilliant or creative minds out there would see more than one. By telling these minds to only answer a multiple choice question the way their teacher or fellow student would, we are effectively telling them to not listen to a very crucial part of the brain which allows one to see things differently. Any tests in social+theoretical sciences have this major flaw with multiple choice questions However, I do agree that there is a tradeoff with having or not having multiple choice tests. I mean, what is the alternative?
Artyom Arty In Germany we don't use multiple choice tests unless the teacher is under extreme time pressure and couldn't manage to write a proper exam or because the students have such terrible grades that they need to get a multiple choice test or otherwise too many students would fail the class. The alternative is normal tests where you are asked to write down how photosynthesis works or why hitlers invasion of russia failed. This is how both tests and exams work pretty much everywhere in the world. Except universities, they often don't have the ressources to grade anything but MC exams.
Karlo Schallibaum i myself was brought up partly in Russia where there were no multiple choice tests until the graduate tests and then later in universities. However, there are some serious drawbacks to full-answer tests. I believe it was mentioned in the video, and that is that teachers and grading can be very subjective. For example, if you ask any russian how professors and teachers grade "full answer tests" they will tell you that the majority of your grade depends on your previous grades. I myself was a permanent victim of being the C student in Russia (except in English). Alot of the times it did not matter how well I did on the test or if I prepared for it, what mattered is the teachers perception of me. Ofcourse not all educational systems are as corrupted as the russian one, but I hope you do agree that non-multiple choice tests do have this one very serious drawback of subjectivity grading. Another drawback, as you mentioned, is it takes alot more resources to grade non multiple choice tests. And iam pretty sure most countries even germany give multiple choice tests when it comes to important state-wide exams. Otherwise these important exam scores could be really skewed based on whose grading you...
The argument for tests (for more tests even) is due to the bias of teacher (human) assessment. How about abolishing all judgement whatsoever? Sure tests are less bias, but they also teach students to hate topics and hate learning itself. It is because they are judged. I think this is a poor argument, as it says one form of testing is better than another which does not say testing itself is a good thing. And the idea that testing actually makes people learn, how about comparing that to true unjudged and unforced engagement?
In an age of instant access to almost all the knowledge in the world, why do we insist on memorisation and testing of facts.
Surely our future lies in mental and practical skills: critical thinking, debate, co-operation, research, creativity, communication, ... dancing.
I'm not sure but it seems to me that the two men who for the motion -- Mr. Hunt and Mr. Little -- all they did was propose ideas. They just seemed to appeal to emotions and saying that we need to be creating a "Better" way. Whilst Miss. Christodoiulou and Mr. Toby did seem to present themselves with research and facts.
Pretty disappointing that people who had so much authority of teaching are bigger fans of story telling and eliciting emotions rather than fact based reasoning.
When i started to watch the vid I was for the motion, when I finished it I was against. I think I was for the motion initially because I've subconsiously recollected all my memories of the recent media and advertisement coverage arguing that tests suck. But I never heard the opposing argument to why tests are good until now
Artyom Arty I realize that you said this over a year ago, but if you might recall, what is it that changed your mind? I personally saw the "for" argument as much more convincing and thoughtful.
Well you should probably end the multiple choice tests because they are just ridiculous.
+Karlo Schallibaum Yeah those might need to be improved. This is the biggest force that shuts down creativity and the ability to reason outside the standard. Why? Because multiple choice question and answers imply that there is only one CORRECT answer, but most brilliant or creative minds out there would see more than one.
By telling these minds to only answer a multiple choice question the way their teacher or fellow student would, we are effectively telling them to not listen to a very crucial part of the brain which allows one to see things differently. Any tests in social+theoretical sciences have this major flaw with multiple choice questions
However, I do agree that there is a tradeoff with having or not having multiple choice tests. I mean, what is the alternative?
Artyom Arty
In Germany we don't use multiple choice tests unless the teacher is under extreme time pressure and couldn't manage to write a proper exam or because the students have such terrible grades that they need to get a multiple choice test or otherwise too many students would fail the class.
The alternative is normal tests where you are asked to write down how photosynthesis works or why hitlers invasion of russia failed. This is how both tests and exams work pretty much everywhere in the world. Except universities, they often don't have the ressources to grade anything but MC exams.
Karlo Schallibaum i myself was brought up partly in Russia where there were no multiple choice tests until the graduate tests and then later in universities.
However, there are some serious drawbacks to full-answer tests. I believe it was mentioned in the video, and that is that teachers and grading can be very subjective. For example, if you ask any russian how professors and teachers grade "full answer tests" they will tell you that the majority of your grade depends on your previous grades. I myself was a permanent victim of being the C student in Russia (except in English). Alot of the times it did not matter how well I did on the test or if I prepared for it, what mattered is the teachers perception of me.
Ofcourse not all educational systems are as corrupted as the russian one, but I hope you do agree that non-multiple choice tests do have this one very serious drawback of subjectivity grading.
Another drawback, as you mentioned, is it takes alot more resources to grade non multiple choice tests.
And iam pretty sure most countries even germany give multiple choice tests when it comes to important state-wide exams. Otherwise these important exam scores could be really skewed based on whose grading you...
Artyom Arty that is wrong.
Isn't Toby Young a classical liberal? Bring back home schooling and end the state monopoly on education!
The argument for tests (for more tests even) is due to the bias of teacher (human) assessment. How about abolishing all judgement whatsoever? Sure tests are less bias, but they also teach students to hate topics and hate learning itself. It is because they are judged. I think this is a poor argument, as it says one form of testing is better than another which does not say testing itself is a good thing. And the idea that testing actually makes people learn, how about comparing that to true unjudged and unforced engagement?
Anecdotal examples from a handful of people's experience is hardly what I would call evidence
I was looking forward to watching this until I spotted Toby Young in the line up. Life's too short.
Omfg, I can't stand this Toby Young, his opening remark alone is making me cringe beyond bounds
34:10 - 46:18 for those wanting to skip him