Great video never thought about putting these pedals in stereo. The only problem I have with videos like this is I have no clue what's hooked up to what and in what order. There's four inputs on each pedal and I have no clue where they're going especially to my monitors.
Thanks. I briefly went over the signal path in the vid but it’s basically guitar into the OCD then to the Lehle splitter. One signal goes to the Lion and the other to the knuckles then out each of those into the L\R input of the DelVerb then L/R out to the interface. When I used the ox stomp, it just went L/R from the DelVerb into the L/R inputs of that then L/R out to the interface. All the UA pedals are true stereo in and out without any internal mono summing so they work really well for this type setup. I also tried the knuckles and Lion into inputs 1/2 of my quad cortex and it worked well there and stereo input into my HX Stomp worked too. Maintaining stereo separation is the key with these two pedals as there is a hint of latency difference between the two that results in phasing if they get summed to mono.
Yep but unfortunately, I think there is a very very slight amount of latency difference between the two units that I don't know how to get rid of and (I presume) is why studios don't record both amps at once when tracking guitars. We would do 1 take with 1 amp and then layer a second take using the second amp. This video was more of a "what will happen if I try this" type things.
damn that is a helluva combo, now I'm thinking the Knux may be a good combo with my UA 68, that said I DID end up buying the IR-J and IR-D to make a good stereo combo, but hey, what's one more amp in a box amirite? 😆
For recording sake, do you think blending these two amps on the tonemaster pro would yield good results? Or are the UAFX pedals more accurate in your opinion? Speaking to sheer accuracy and sound quality here, I know the TMP is more convenient of course.
It's 100% easier in the TMP. I did a video showing how to blend amps and cabs using the TMP. Yeah the UAFX pedals are more accurate but between the cost and the challenge of dealing with latency and phasing, just loading up a pair of amps in the TMP is way less trouble.
Thoughts on dual Uafx amps routed like this vs fractal fm9? The cost for the 4 pedals and the FM9 would be in the same ballpark. I’m fairly deep in the uafx game but considering jumping to fractal.
Sorry for the long answer coming but it's kind of a can of worms. The UAFX pedals are SO much more accurate. If accuracy is what you want, nothing digital or analog on the market can touch these units other than the real actual amps they model. The only caveat to this is something like a Kemper/QuadCortex or ToneX where you can capture a profile of the unit but after spending hours trying to capture the IR-J and Lion with my quad cortex, there is something that gets lost in translation that doesn't happen when you capture real amps/speaker cabs. Disabling the IR on the IR-J allowed me to get a pretty accurate capture but it still wasn't quite like just plugging into the pedal, turning the IR off and then running it into the QC and into the same IR block that I tested running the IR-J capture through. All of that is ignoring the fact that profilers don't react the same way as the analog pedal/amp does when adjusting controls. What you trade when giving up accuracy with the modelers/digital units is more flexibility and convenience. Yeah the modelers all have their own version of these amps in them and the fractal stuff lets you tweak a billion parameters that the other digital units don't but they are all just digital representations of the real amps. I think some of the modelers get pretty close to the sound but they all still fall short of how accurate these UA pedals are. I really enjoyed owning both the AxeFX III and the FM3 but they're a huge pain in the ass to work with on stage compared to the helix, QC and tone master pro units and although I think the helix amp models are pretty lacking vs the rest, the QC and TMP amp models are all really good and for most players, I think "good enough" to get by with. For me personally, the difficulty of stage use is one huge reason I sold my FM3 and AxeFX III. Using my own amp captures with the QC has been the most satisfying digital experience on stage I've ever had mainly because they sound and feel like my real amps.
@ I’ve had a multiple amps, Kemper 2x, helix, Tonex, IRX, now a Lion an enigmatic(not sure it’s a keeper yet). I actually preferred the Lion>Irx because I thought the irx was thin (maybe it has been improved with the update) I felt the power amp feel was better in the Lion. I’ve heard really good things about about the fractal stuff but the learning curve and tweaking are something I’m not a fan of. That’s why I bailed from Tonex, while it sounded good the software was terrible to navigate. I’ll probably stick to the Lion and add something else. Maybe reconsider an irx/irk or the soldano Astro for a 4 channel do it all. I do know I love the feel playing through the uafx stuff. All the fractal fanbois seem to state the fractal stuff is as good or better. Lots of others say opposite. The fractal I/o seems better as does lack of phase issues when blending. Thanks for the feedback.
It would be tricky honestly. When they get summed together into a mono signal, you run into (what I assume) is some phasing issues. I thought connecting them into the OX Stomp would fix this but unless I had each mic panned hard left and right, the phasing was still there. The only way I've gotten both sounding decent with a mono signal is disabling cab sim on each one and running them into the quad cortex and then feeding both input signals into a single IR block. The signal gets converted to mono when using a mono IR block and that seems to work fairly well but not perfect. You lose a lot of the big-ness that having them separated into a 50L/50R stereo signal produces. This is why recording studios record two separate takes when blending amps/cabs/etc.
UAFX should send you their pedals to demo. You do a better job than most of the other reviewers.
Thanks man! That's 100% in their marketing team's hands LOL. My channel isn't nearly big enough to get stuff ahead of time but I'm working on it.
I enjoyed the video. I always get all the uafx amp pedals when a new one comes out. Thanks for the idea with the knuckles and lion.
Sounds great combined!
Great video never thought about putting these pedals in stereo. The only problem I have with videos like this is I have no clue what's hooked up to what and in what order. There's four inputs on each pedal and I have no clue where they're going especially to my monitors.
Thanks. I briefly went over the signal path in the vid but it’s basically guitar into the OCD then to the Lehle splitter.
One signal goes to the Lion and the other to the knuckles then out each of those into the L\R input of the DelVerb then L/R out to the interface.
When I used the ox stomp, it just went L/R from the DelVerb into the L/R inputs of that then L/R out to the interface.
All the UA pedals are true stereo in and out without any internal mono summing so they work really well for this type setup.
I also tried the knuckles and Lion into inputs 1/2 of my quad cortex and it worked well there and stereo input into my HX Stomp worked too.
Maintaining stereo separation is the key with these two pedals as there is a hint of latency difference between the two that results in phasing if they get summed to mono.
@FastRedPonyCar thank you for this I'll try to replicate. Definitely helps a lot of people out. The worst part of new gears is all these wires.
Nice!! That sounds great through my monitors.
This is how it should be done! 🎉🎉🎉 With the Ox was best
check in MONO.
if it's not aligned (phased out)
it's a problem.
Yep but unfortunately, I think there is a very very slight amount of latency difference between the two units that I don't know how to get rid of and (I presume) is why studios don't record both amps at once when tracking guitars. We would do 1 take with 1 amp and then layer a second take using the second amp. This video was more of a "what will happen if I try this" type things.
@@FastRedPonyCarinsert a mimiq pedal before one of two amp pedals, to simulate the fake 2 guitar player thing and get rid of the phase issue
You got it. Overdrive and distorted guitar tones should have growl.
I wonder how the ANTI would sound paired with either one of these 🤔
damn that is a helluva combo, now I'm thinking the Knux may be a good combo with my UA 68, that said I DID end up buying the IR-J and IR-D to make a good stereo combo, but hey, what's one more amp in a box amirite? 😆
Wow! 😳
You should add the ANTE on a third channel with an a/b/y box for a bigger sound.
For recording sake, do you think blending these two amps on the tonemaster pro would yield good results? Or are the UAFX pedals more accurate in your opinion? Speaking to sheer accuracy and sound quality here, I know the TMP is more convenient of course.
It's 100% easier in the TMP. I did a video showing how to blend amps and cabs using the TMP. Yeah the UAFX pedals are more accurate but between the cost and the challenge of dealing with latency and phasing, just loading up a pair of amps in the TMP is way less trouble.
Thoughts on dual Uafx amps routed like this vs fractal fm9? The cost for the 4 pedals and the FM9 would be in the same ballpark. I’m fairly deep in the uafx game but considering jumping to fractal.
Sorry for the long answer coming but it's kind of a can of worms.
The UAFX pedals are SO much more accurate. If accuracy is what you want, nothing digital or analog on the market can touch these units other than the real actual amps they model.
The only caveat to this is something like a Kemper/QuadCortex or ToneX where you can capture a profile of the unit but after spending hours trying to capture the IR-J and Lion with my quad cortex, there is something that gets lost in translation that doesn't happen when you capture real amps/speaker cabs. Disabling the IR on the IR-J allowed me to get a pretty accurate capture but it still wasn't quite like just plugging into the pedal, turning the IR off and then running it into the QC and into the same IR block that I tested running the IR-J capture through.
All of that is ignoring the fact that profilers don't react the same way as the analog pedal/amp does when adjusting controls.
What you trade when giving up accuracy with the modelers/digital units is more flexibility and convenience. Yeah the modelers all have their own version of these amps in them and the fractal stuff lets you tweak a billion parameters that the other digital units don't but they are all just digital representations of the real amps. I think some of the modelers get pretty close to the sound but they all still fall short of how accurate these UA pedals are.
I really enjoyed owning both the AxeFX III and the FM3 but they're a huge pain in the ass to work with on stage compared to the helix, QC and tone master pro units and although I think the helix amp models are pretty lacking vs the rest, the QC and TMP amp models are all really good and for most players, I think "good enough" to get by with. For me personally, the difficulty of stage use is one huge reason I sold my FM3 and AxeFX III.
Using my own amp captures with the QC has been the most satisfying digital experience on stage I've ever had mainly because they sound and feel like my real amps.
@ I’ve had a multiple amps, Kemper 2x, helix, Tonex, IRX, now a Lion an enigmatic(not sure it’s a keeper yet).
I actually preferred the Lion>Irx because I thought the irx was thin (maybe it has been improved with the update) I felt the power amp feel was better in the Lion.
I’ve heard really good things about about the fractal stuff but the learning curve and tweaking are something I’m not a fan of. That’s why I bailed from Tonex, while it sounded good the software was terrible to navigate.
I’ll probably stick to the Lion and add something else. Maybe reconsider an irx/irk or the soldano Astro for a 4 channel do it all.
I do know I love the feel playing through the uafx stuff. All the fractal fanbois seem to state the fractal stuff is as good or better. Lots of others say opposite. The fractal I/o seems better as does lack of phase issues when blending.
Thanks for the feedback.
So there’s a new update for the knuckles that shaved some latency off, if you’ve updated do they blend better now when mixed than hard panned?
@@colinjames7765 I sold mine to a friend. He may have either a Lion or Ruby, I can't remember which. I'll see if he wants to check it out.
Question, are you going to run these into a power amp and cab? Great job.
It would be tricky honestly. When they get summed together into a mono signal, you run into (what I assume) is some phasing issues. I thought connecting them into the OX Stomp would fix this but unless I had each mic panned hard left and right, the phasing was still there. The only way I've gotten both sounding decent with a mono signal is disabling cab sim on each one and running them into the quad cortex and then feeding both input signals into a single IR block. The signal gets converted to mono when using a mono IR block and that seems to work fairly well but not perfect. You lose a lot of the big-ness that having them separated into a 50L/50R stereo signal produces.
This is why recording studios record two separate takes when blending amps/cabs/etc.
@@FastRedPonyCar THey even sound slightly out of time with each other listening back now. Wonder if the new one suffers from higher latency?
I still prefer the Friedman on its own, without reverb or boost.
It's a REALLY great pedal