Love the video! I also like the car you used an out of service car! When i first received my "Heat Gun" i got an old ho scale coal car & made it look like it was in an accident! My son loves it & people love it! MoPac Jack Kirkwood,Mo. STL 🚂
Hey Joe, Just happened upon your V-logs and I'm thinking about returning for our HO Model RxR Club. So your Sand Loads. We do most of what you did to infill the hoppers. And have done for over 15 years with various molding material. So some of the things we do now. 1) It looked like what you were using for foam was a Quik Expanding Foam. For smaller gauges (HO to Z) that's a bad idea. For the big guns Quik works perfect. We did try a number of infill material, GROUND GOOP, Modeling Rubber, Two Part Epoxy Resin, and Stiff Foam Insulation. We hate them all. So when SLO-BLO became available for weatherizing our Clubs Windows we asked our window glazier where do we buy this stuff. Now we mail order it by the case. What you should have used was "SLO-BLO". A longer set time expandable foam. You would have to let it set up longer as directed on the can but you also have more adjustment time when you first blow it in. 2) The magnet idea from Timberwolf is also a great idea. Since the introduction of rubberized magnetic strips we have started using the strips in all of our removable loads. But before going into the how I'd like to mention how we started. Model cars need weight for stabilization. We originally tried the Hide a Nut Idea and just a quickly dumped it. Not enough weight and difficulty trying to find the nut with a magnet. So for the many years since we used a threaded rod. JUST SHY of the length of the hopper. Some of our N guys say in planing meeting that with a threaded rod you not only get a broader magnetic surface but you add the need weight to the hopper's for stabilization. I'm HO so take it for what it's worth. In the HO and larger scales we mold the SLO-BLO foam into the protected car. Give it 48 hours to cure. Then we come back with to trim the surface as needed. HOWEVER, we additionally trim off the top the allowance for the magnetic strips cut to fit in the well of the car. The foam and strip get Gorilla Glued together. NOW WE PAINT. Sort of. 3) I say now which isn't totally true. While the crew are working on the hopper infill, another part of the team is working on the color scheme. And if the hopper is to be used for other type of load (i.e. Coal or Scrap Metal) they are already working in the paint shop. Yeah I know this video is about sand, but we use this technique on other cargo as well. So our painting crews will sack and pillage ever other modelers work station for Bits 'N' Bobs, end pieces, etc. They will find out during our monthly planning sessions what is out of the norm that may be needed and they get to work ahead of the rest of the team. For things like Coal and Scrap they will mix the desired colors in a small dish or container. Drop the Bits 'N' Bobs into the paint and let it dry on old Baker's Cooling Racks. They do try to separate the pieces while they are still wet, but sometimes it just as easy to let a small pile adhere together. NOW, back to your SandPiper. Off to our paint shop we spray paint our base coat over the entire foam/magnet assembly. Your idea of baking real sand is quite interesting, and I will be bringing that up with the team, in July. While watching I though the idea was half-baked. Then thinking about it I may become a convert. We use WOODLAND SCENIC sand colored ground cover. Using their instructions. Again we buy in bulk but even so it can get expensive. So there you go. Catch you down the line. Jim NVR/WAS RxR Club
Joe I appreciate you showing us the R&D involved in this project. I will certainly benefit from your time spent getting this to work to your standards.
HI Joe, Nice segment. I have good success using MDF and carving that to shape with a file or dremel tool. Closed cell installation foam and carving that works well to, just not as durable as the MDF method. You can use the Pink, blue or green foam. They all work just fine for me. I model in HO and HOn3. I really like the MDF the best but make sure you wear a mask. You don't want to inhale the dust.
Very interesting to see how the foam reacted to air after awhile. Actually, makes you wonder, too, how effective it is/was as a filler in the basement project. Did it shrink leaving gaps there as well ? Or, was it because the "walls" weren't supported for the foam to remain pushed against. Good idea to put the nut at the top instead of bottom so it's grabbed by the magnet more easily.
Mary Beth Noonan Jensen yes that does make you think. I believe there are air bubbles you just don’t see them because it forms a “skin” thanks for watching.
Hey Joe, you might try this approach. 1) Instead of plastic bags use seran sandwich wrap. It will conform better to the shape of the hopper. Push the wrap into the hopper and let the excess hang over the sides. Make sure there are no holes or openings in the wrap inside the hopper. 2) Create a base layer of your load by pouring in some of that nice prepped glidden sand, only about half load the hopper and spread it evenly so the top of this base layer is flat. This basically replaces foam base from your other method and will be faster than carving and it adds some weight to the cars too. 3) Set a magnet or steel nut or other magnetic object in the middle of the base. You're going to add a top layer of sand in subsequent steps and that will hide the magnet. 3) Just like when you ballast, use some water with detergent or alcohol to wet the sand in the hopper then hit it with just enough 50/50 white glue and water. Go easy with both because unlike ballasting, the liquid cant leak away so just use enough of each to wet the sand and distribute the white glue mix. You could try just a mix glue, water and detergent or alcohol and maybe do the gluing step in one shot. 4) Let that dry. Should take a few hours or so. 5) Once the base layer is solid, pour on some more Glidden sand. This time you want the top to look like your load so shape it into the correct profile that you've seen on the prototype. 6) Use an eyedropper with some water and detergent or alcohol to wet the sand then hit it with the diluted glue mix. Be as careful as you can, you don't want to disturb the nice profile you've set up. Again very similar to ballasting but go easy with the liquid, only use just the amount needed to get glue distributed through the sand. 7) When the glue is all set up, you should be able to grab out the load using a magnet. The seran wrap wont stick to the white glue and the inside of the hopper should be unmarked. 8) If needed, you can paint a thin layer of full strength white glue on the sides and bottom of the load to stop granules of sand from breaking off during handling. This method should create good looking sand loads that conform perfectly to the wells of your hoppers. They'll add some weight low down which will help how the hoppers ride. The loads should be snug inside the hoppers with no gap on the edges yet they should be easy to remove with a magnet. And the sand should look good since it's right from Glidden! Good luck!
Joe, if you had put the nut/washer in on top of the plastic bag then sprayed the foam in it would keep you from having to cut a spot out latter ,just a time saving trick. Great video .
Similarly but differently, I've had -great- success with florist foam. It's around $1 a block (which goes a long way) and can easily be cut into the interior diameter of the hopper/gondola and then sculpted into mounds. From there, it can be painted a color close to that of the actual load and after drying, coated with white glue so that the load (crushed coal, sand, stone, etc...) will adhere. Some folks will then apply white glue thinned with rubbing alcohol to seal the load... Optionally, glue a steel washer or nut on the inside bottom so the load can be removed with a magnet.
Shrinkage? It was probably in the pool too long. Great video Joe. I'm glad you showed us how it turned out even though it wasn't your ideal outcome. -Mark
Hi Joe. Thanks for sharing your experience using the expanding foam. To add weight to my wagons I got hold of some small counter weights normally used for balancing car wheels. You can get them dirt cheap from eBay and with adhesive backing and they are also very thin and come in various weights. In regards to using pink foam for your loads, that’s the technique I’d be using. I have seen people use cardboard from boxes etc but I feel it would be more labor involved. Keep up the great progress.
Clinton Herring thanks. I the bbs were an early attempt at quickly adding weigh to my cars during my N Trak days. I stopped doing it because some of the bbs would break loose during transport and the car would lean because there was to much weight on one side....ugh! Now I’m using pine wood derby weigh (very similar to tire weighs).
Put the nut on the top set into the foam. Use pink or green extruded foam and cut to fit the car. Then the rest of your steps. I did this for coal and scrap metal and looks perfect. Bob
Very inspired. I like it alot. I use live loads on my layout. I have the Walters sand and gravel. I converted it so the building hopper feeds sand down into the cars as they roll through. But, with all that said. I think your on the right track with the plastic bags. Just not with the foam, or poly. I was thinking as I watched, why not use gorilla glue alone and place the nut in as it dries and expands. But then I said wait. What if you use the plastic bag and filled it with sand. Placed the nut near the top, and finished it with a glue water mix to hold it all together. Two days ago I saw a whole train of sand hoppers go by my work. They were full, way over the top. Higher than any coal load I have ever seen. This is also how I load my little hoppers at the gravel model. I run n scale as well. I have about 18 cars that work the gravel company. I use a regular EMD switcher to push and pull the cars around with no issues because of the weight. And when done two SD40s pick them up. I'm able to pull all up a 2% helix to the cement company. Now I follow the NMRA spec for weight. But that number is a minimum for weight. The hopper cars naturally track better full. Again, love the inspired work. Keep going man. 👍
Maybe the foam reacted with the paint causing it to shrink and warp? Anyway good to see video of mistakes being made, far more valuable than the perfect first time attempt that never went wrong.
Hey Joe! Ive never seen shrinkage like that in the regular "great stuff"-Used it quite a bit to close up things. Could be the fire resistance quality of it. That is totally cool you got the actual Glidden sand!! You could also try a piece of balsa wood, shape it and paint it, then glue sand on maybe.
Just an Idea mold in play dough Use it to make a silicone mold to cast loads with. Doing a 2 part pour you could imbed the nut in the middle and use the Modge podge trick like for lakes to add surface height features.
I tried going the route of using the sheet foam, carving it, cutting down for loads for MT Ortner cars. Just wasn't happy with the end result for amount of work into it. Ended up with Hays Bros loads.
Thanks for the demonstration. Shows why I'm still not wholly convinced by Ken Patterson's (and others) promotion of the spray foam. Just appears to me to be pretty messy. I'll keep an open mind, but if the special gun sells for $55 and requires a can of compressed gas to clean it out, that dosn't appear to me a great use for hobby funds.
Watched your segment on the expanding "shrinking" foam and now your thought's on getting the pink foam and carving your loads out of that. Did you ever check into the balsa wood? I don't know the dimensions on your cars but I know you can buy that balsa wood in a number of different dimensions and it may be very possible you can get a square of that stuff to fit right into your cars and my guess is the balsa wood would weigh even less then the pink foam after all finished up. I haven't checked on the cost of balsa wood in ages either so have no clue where that is but I know the pink foam isn't the cheapest anymore either..... What is these days!!! Just a little food for thought.....
As for the gun that Ken uses, I have a lumberyard (not a big box store) that has them and they are about $65.00 but if you use the foam for all the things Ken does, this is the best way to go as there is a can of cleaning fluid that lasts quite a while. You used nuts and I use finishing nail - same thing they do. The finishing nail is about the length of the car so it doesn't matter where you put the "pick up" tool.. I put the car number on the bottom of the loads to keep them straight...Although I work with HO scale I put the foam back into the car and place the clingy wrap (stole some from my wife) and put the sand or coal or wood chips on the glue and that will make the load form to the walls of the car. The sticky stuff works better that the plastic and gets into all of the little places in the cars.
I liked the way you followed up the results before you posted the video so we would not try that technic. I too am modeling in N scale and what I use to weigh cars is flat brass shims take out the rod at the bottom and add them to the hopper. I also use a product I found at Lowes Panel foam / diy insulation kit $10.00 bucks it is 3/4 of an inch thick and with a little sanding fits great in the hopper. I also use a wood screw glued into the foam to pull it out. Keep up the great work..
Interesting, Joe. I wish you better luck with the sheet foam although it seems like quite a bit more work. I was quite surprised with the shrinkage of the expanding foam. I was curious about the weight of the nut. Does it keep you within NMRA standards for car weights between loaded vs. unloaded cars?
Robert Weiland with the foam and nut we are very close I think like .1 oz lite. Empty.....super lite. That’s the problem that I’m gonna have to work at. Those cars are really lite. That’s why those N Trak guys pull 200 coal hoppers at the shows! I will update everyone when I come up with a solution!
Hey Joe You might try after you put the foam in the car wipe the extra off put the nut in and wrap and press on the top of car forcing the foam in to the crack and crevices then let it dry.
The Great Stuff Pro reusable are sold at Menards, Home Depo, and Lowes. For about 35USD. You cannot use the small Cans. you will have to by the Pro sized cans.
Speaking of loaded cars or empties, how do people schedule the pick up and drop off of cars on their layout? I get the whole waybill and car card thing but... does that tank car go out on Tuesday and come back Friday? or is it just eh whenever I feel like it? Would the scale denizens complain if cargo isn't delivered for a while? =p
Aikagi000 great question! So industries want their cars emptied as soon as possible to avoid Dermuge fees( this is a penalty assessed by the railroad for letting empty cars sit too long). In fact builders general in freehold would hold employees on overtime until the cars were unloaded. Once the car is empty and cleaned out (The car owners assess a cleanup fee if the cars are not returned cleaned) The employee of the industry in charge of Rail shipments contacts the railroad to tell them that the car is ready. The broker of the railroad then contacts the trainmaster who relays that through the computer system so that the yardmaster knows that there’s a car ready for pick up.
As for the cars delivery schedule once it is in the yard the yard master tries to get it out on the next local, you don’t want cars just sitting in the yard clogging it up. However if a tank car comes into Browns Yard in Monday morning and the SA-31 isn’t scheduled to go out until Tuesday evening it going to wait, this way all the freight for that area goes together and save costs. No reason to send one tank car down behind the locomotive on Monday. Also if the SA-31 calls at 4pm and another tank cars comes in on the CA-53 at 6pm it’s goin to wait until the SA-31 runs again on Thursday. This is just an example, every rail road is different, that’s why You should read up on the railroad you Model. And if your modeling your own freelanced railroad, make a rule and stick with it.
wow I lot of info there! Thanks! I had started to put together a little time table for my fictional industries but wasn't sure if this was something a lot of people do. But some good info on the car unloading that helps I didn't know turn arounds were so fast!
Hi Joe.. great segment.. magnets are cool aren't they? ok..two things.. first Ron Marsh from Ron's Train N Things.. he did a video on using spray foam for scenery.. he has found a way to clean the nozzle/tube for future use. Second..on the load. styrene cut to fit..add the nut or a washer if the load appears to be too thick and heavy..fill the car to just covering the nut/washer the same way you would ballast track..just a thought. Looking forward to the follow up to see how you bring this to a happy conclusion. Tom
GIOD SHOW, Joe I saw the gun at home depot the other day, $55, and you had to buy the cleaner can but I didn't check the price but it was about the same price as the foam I think. As far as the loads way not use the loasd that came with the car & just trim to suit your needs, a washer would work as well can and as far as the bar in the bottom just paint it like you saidbefoe weathering, thanks for sharing....
Won't the floral foam work better. When I use Great Stuff Foam it doesn't shrink. But the pink foam sounds better. Good luck. If you do foam again try spraying the inside the hoppers with Food Cooking Spray before you foam.
Have you weighed the cars after the load was created / added? I know you had B.Bs glued in previously to add weight. What if you used the bag liner and filled the car with sand then Wet Water and Glue the whole load together. Insert the metal near the top before adding the final sand and glue. You added weight and have a good load. Try on one car first as a test. LOL Just a thought, Chuck
![CHILE vs. BRASIL [1-2] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 9](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5ObJt_71AYc/mqdefault.jpg)
Love the video! I also like the car you used an out of service car! When i first received my "Heat Gun" i got an old ho scale coal car & made it look like it was in an accident! My son loves it & people love it! MoPac Jack Kirkwood,Mo. STL 🚂
Thank you!
Hey Joe,
Just happened upon your V-logs and I'm thinking about returning for our HO Model RxR Club.
So your Sand Loads. We do most of what you did to infill the hoppers. And have done for over 15 years with various molding material. So some of the things we do now.
1) It looked like what you were using for foam was a Quik Expanding Foam. For smaller gauges (HO to Z) that's a bad idea. For the big guns Quik works perfect. We did try a number of infill material, GROUND GOOP, Modeling Rubber, Two Part Epoxy Resin, and Stiff Foam Insulation. We hate them all. So when SLO-BLO became available for weatherizing our Clubs Windows we asked our window glazier where do we buy this stuff. Now we mail order it by the case. What you should have used was "SLO-BLO". A longer set time expandable foam. You would have to let it set up longer as directed on the can but you also have more adjustment time when you first blow it in.
2) The magnet idea from Timberwolf is also a great idea. Since the introduction of rubberized magnetic strips we have started using the strips in all of our removable loads. But before going into the how I'd like to mention how we started.
Model cars need weight for stabilization. We originally tried the Hide a Nut Idea and just a quickly dumped it. Not enough weight and difficulty trying to find the nut with a magnet. So for the many years since we used a threaded rod. JUST SHY of the length of the hopper. Some of our N guys say in planing meeting that with a threaded rod you not only get a broader magnetic surface but you add the need weight to the hopper's for stabilization. I'm HO so take it for what it's worth. In the HO and larger scales we mold the SLO-BLO foam into the protected car. Give it 48 hours to cure. Then we come back with to trim the surface as needed. HOWEVER, we additionally trim off the top the allowance for the magnetic strips cut to fit in the well of the car. The foam and strip get Gorilla Glued together. NOW WE PAINT. Sort of.
3) I say now which isn't totally true.
While the crew are working on the hopper infill, another part of the team is working on the color scheme. And if the hopper is to be used for other type of load (i.e. Coal or Scrap Metal) they are already working in the paint shop. Yeah I know this video is about sand, but we use this technique on other cargo as well.
So our painting crews will sack and pillage ever other modelers work station for Bits 'N' Bobs, end pieces, etc. They will find out during our monthly planning sessions what is out of the norm that may be needed and they get to work ahead of the rest of the team.
For things like Coal and Scrap they will mix the desired colors in a small dish or container. Drop the Bits 'N' Bobs into the paint and let it dry on old Baker's Cooling Racks. They do try to separate the pieces while they are still wet, but sometimes it just as easy to let a small pile adhere together.
NOW, back to your SandPiper. Off to our paint shop we spray paint our base coat over the entire foam/magnet assembly.
Your idea of baking real sand is quite interesting, and I will be bringing that up with the team, in July. While watching I though the idea was half-baked. Then thinking about it I may become a convert. We use WOODLAND SCENIC sand colored ground cover. Using their instructions. Again we buy in bulk but even so it can get expensive.
So there you go. Catch you down the line.
Jim
NVR/WAS RxR Club
jvanamb wow that’s great thanks Jim. Thanks for watching.
Joe I appreciate you showing us the R&D involved in this project. I will certainly benefit from your time spent getting this to work to your standards.
Bruce Giroux thanks glad to enjoyed it!
HI Joe, Nice segment. I have good success using MDF and carving that to shape with a file or dremel tool. Closed cell installation foam and carving that works well to, just not as durable as the MDF method. You can use the Pink, blue or green foam. They all work just fine for me. I model in HO and HOn3. I really like the MDF the best but make sure you wear a mask. You don't want to inhale the dust.
Very interesting to see how the foam reacted to air after awhile. Actually, makes you wonder, too, how effective it is/was as a filler in the basement project. Did it shrink leaving gaps there as well ? Or, was it because the "walls" weren't supported for the foam to remain pushed against. Good idea to put the nut at the top instead of bottom so it's grabbed by the magnet more easily.
Mary Beth Noonan Jensen yes that does make you think. I believe there are air bubbles you just don’t see them because it forms a “skin” thanks for watching.
Hey Joe, you might try this approach.
1) Instead of plastic bags use seran sandwich wrap. It will conform better to the shape of the hopper. Push the wrap into the hopper and let the excess hang over the sides. Make sure there are no holes or openings in the wrap inside the hopper.
2) Create a base layer of your load by pouring in some of that nice prepped glidden sand, only about half load the hopper and spread it evenly so the top of this base layer is flat. This basically replaces foam base from your other method and will be faster than carving and it adds some weight to the cars too.
3) Set a magnet or steel nut or other magnetic object in the middle of the base. You're going to add a top layer of sand in subsequent steps and that will hide the magnet.
3) Just like when you ballast, use some water with detergent or alcohol to wet the sand in the hopper then hit it with just enough 50/50 white glue and water. Go easy with both because unlike ballasting, the liquid cant leak away so just use enough of each to wet the sand and distribute the white glue mix. You could try just a mix glue, water and detergent or alcohol and maybe do the gluing step in one shot.
4) Let that dry. Should take a few hours or so.
5) Once the base layer is solid, pour on some more Glidden sand. This time you want the top to look like your load so shape it into the correct profile that you've seen on the prototype.
6) Use an eyedropper with some water and detergent or alcohol to wet the sand then hit it with the diluted glue mix. Be as careful as you can, you don't want to disturb the nice profile you've set up. Again very similar to ballasting but go easy with the liquid, only use just the amount needed to get glue distributed through the sand.
7) When the glue is all set up, you should be able to grab out the load using a magnet. The seran wrap wont stick to the white glue and the inside of the hopper should be unmarked.
8) If needed, you can paint a thin layer of full strength white glue on the sides and bottom of the load to stop granules of sand from breaking off during handling.
This method should create good looking sand loads that conform perfectly to the wells of your hoppers. They'll add some weight low down which will help how the hoppers ride. The loads should be snug inside the hoppers with no gap on the edges yet they should be easy to remove with a magnet. And the sand should look good since it's right from Glidden!
Good luck!
Coxy's Railroading yes! I like it! gonna try it, thanks for watching
Joe, if you had put the nut/washer in on top of the plastic bag then sprayed the foam in it would keep you from having to cut a spot out latter ,just a time saving trick. Great video .
Otto Bettcher thanks glad you liked it. Thanks for the tip!
Similarly but differently, I've had -great- success with florist foam. It's around $1 a block (which goes a long way) and can easily be cut into the interior diameter of the hopper/gondola and then sculpted into mounds. From there, it can be painted a color close to that of the actual load and after drying, coated with white glue so that the load (crushed coal, sand, stone, etc...) will adhere. Some folks will then apply white glue thinned with rubbing alcohol to seal the load... Optionally, glue a steel washer or nut on the inside bottom so the load can be removed with a magnet.
Thanks for the suggestions and thanks for watching.
Shrinkage? It was probably in the pool too long. Great video Joe. I'm glad you showed us how it turned out even though it wasn't your ideal outcome. -Mark
M&M Rails thanks Mark. Ya that will be last time I do it that way!
Hi Joe. Thanks for sharing your experience using the expanding foam. To add weight to my wagons I got hold of some small counter weights normally used for balancing car wheels. You can get them dirt cheap from eBay and with adhesive backing and they are also very thin and come in various weights. In regards to using pink foam for your loads, that’s the technique I’d be using. I have seen people use cardboard from boxes etc but I feel it would be more labor involved. Keep up the great progress.
Clinton Herring thanks. I the bbs were an early attempt at quickly adding weigh to my cars during my N Trak days. I stopped doing it because some of the bbs would break loose during transport and the car would lean because there was to much weight on one side....ugh! Now I’m using pine wood derby weigh (very similar to tire weighs).
I like the idea for sure.
Mike
Mike Fifer thanks and thanks for watching!
I wonder if foam putty would work well without shrinking? Not sure it would peel away from plastic bags though. Great video and Happy New Year!!
irishmanwolfhound thanks for the idea and thanks for watching!
Put the nut on the top set into the foam. Use pink or green extruded foam and cut to fit the car. Then the rest of your steps. I did this for coal and scrap metal and looks perfect. Bob
Robert Schworm thanks for the tip.
Very inspired. I like it alot. I use live loads on my layout. I have the Walters sand and gravel. I converted it so the building hopper feeds sand down into the cars as they roll through.
But, with all that said.
I think your on the right track with the plastic bags. Just not with the foam, or poly. I was thinking as I watched, why not use gorilla glue alone and place the nut in as it dries and expands.
But then I said wait. What if you use the plastic bag and filled it with sand. Placed the nut near the top, and finished it with a glue water mix to hold it all together.
Two days ago I saw a whole train of sand hoppers go by my work. They were full, way over the top. Higher than any coal load I have ever seen. This is also how I load my little hoppers at the gravel model.
I run n scale as well. I have about 18 cars that work the gravel company. I use a regular EMD switcher to push and pull the cars around with no issues because of the weight. And when done two SD40s pick them up. I'm able to pull all up a 2% helix to the cement company. Now I follow the NMRA spec for weight. But that number is a minimum for weight. The hopper cars naturally track better full.
Again, love the inspired work. Keep going man. 👍
S&J Railroad awesome thanks for the advise, I have a 3 gallon spackle bucket full of sand. I gonna try it!
Maybe the foam reacted with the paint causing it to shrink and warp? Anyway good to see video of mistakes being made, far more valuable than the perfect first time attempt that never went wrong.
Hey Joe! Ive never seen shrinkage like that in the regular "great stuff"-Used it quite a bit to close up things. Could be the fire resistance quality of it. That is totally cool you got the actual Glidden sand!! You could also try a piece of balsa wood, shape it and paint it, then glue sand on maybe.
Ralph Greenwood thanks Ralph!! I’m gonna try the wood!
Just an Idea mold in play dough Use it to make a silicone mold to cast loads with. Doing a 2 part pour you could imbed the nut in the middle and use the Modge podge trick like for lakes to add surface height features.
Thanks for the suggestion, and thanks for watching!
I tried going the route of using the sheet foam, carving it, cutting down for loads for MT Ortner cars. Just wasn't happy with the end result for amount of work into it. Ended up with Hays Bros loads.
CSXGP38 thanks I have gotten a lot of recommendations for Hays brothers! Thanks for watching
hi Joe... we all have our failures that's how we learn.... on you next try use the paint as the glue it works very well .. thanks for sharing.. vinny
bnsf6951 thanks Vinny for watching and the tip!
Thanks for the demonstration. Shows why I'm still not wholly convinced by Ken Patterson's (and others) promotion of the spray foam. Just appears to me to be pretty messy. I'll keep an open mind, but if the special gun sells for $55 and requires a can of compressed gas to clean it out, that dosn't appear to me a great use for hobby funds.
Jerry Smith I agree! Thanks for the input and thanks for watching
Watched your segment on the expanding "shrinking" foam and now your thought's on getting the pink foam and carving your loads out of that. Did you ever check into the balsa wood? I don't know the dimensions on your cars but I know you can buy that balsa wood in a number of different dimensions and it may be very possible you can get a square of that stuff to fit right into your cars and my guess is the balsa wood would weigh even less then the pink foam after all finished up. I haven't checked on the cost of balsa wood in ages either so have no clue where that is but I know the pink foam isn't the cheapest anymore either..... What is these days!!! Just a little food for thought.....
As for the gun that Ken uses, I have a lumberyard (not a big box store) that has them and they are about $65.00 but if you use the foam for all the things Ken does, this is the best way to go as there is a can of cleaning fluid that lasts quite a while. You used nuts and I use finishing nail - same thing they do. The finishing nail is about the length of the car so it doesn't matter where you put the "pick up" tool.. I put the car number on the bottom of the loads to keep them straight...Although I work with HO scale I put the foam back into the car and place the clingy wrap (stole some from my wife) and put the sand or coal or wood chips on the glue and that will make the load form to the walls of the car. The sticky stuff works better that the plastic and gets into all of the little places in the cars.
David Curtis thanks for the tip and thanks for watching!
I liked the way you followed up the results before you posted the video so we would not try that technic. I too am modeling in N scale and what I use to weigh cars is flat brass shims take out the rod at the bottom and add them to the hopper. I also use a product I found at Lowes Panel foam / diy insulation kit $10.00 bucks it is 3/4 of an inch thick and with a little sanding fits great in the hopper. I also use a wood screw glued into the foam to pull it out.
Keep up the great work..
will kling thanks. Is that the pink squares? If so I pick up some and we are gonna try it next time!
joe it is white...I got it for loads because of the cost. It cutswell but a little more messy than the pink or blue foam board.
Interesting, Joe. I wish you better luck with the sheet foam although it seems like quite a bit more work. I was quite surprised with the shrinkage of the expanding foam. I was curious about the weight of the nut. Does it keep you within NMRA standards for car weights between loaded vs. unloaded cars?
Robert Weiland with the foam and nut we are very close I think like .1 oz lite. Empty.....super lite. That’s the problem that I’m gonna have to work at. Those cars are really lite. That’s why those N Trak guys pull 200 coal hoppers at the shows! I will update everyone when I come up with a solution!
Interesting problem. Ought to be an interesting solution. Good luck with it.
Hey Joe
You might try after you put the foam in the car wipe the extra off put the nut in and wrap and press on the top of car forcing the foam in to the crack and crevices then let it dry.
Thanks for the suggestion. Thank you for watching!
The Great Stuff Pro reusable are sold at Menards, Home Depo, and Lowes. For about 35USD. You cannot use the small Cans. you will have to by the Pro sized cans.
thanks for the tip.
THANK YOU...for sharing.
ELSDP-45 thanks for watching as always!
Speaking of loaded cars or empties, how do people schedule the pick up and drop off of cars on their layout? I get the whole waybill and car card thing but... does that tank car go out on Tuesday and come back Friday? or is it just eh whenever I feel like it? Would the scale denizens complain if cargo isn't delivered for a while? =p
Aikagi000 great question! So industries want their cars emptied as soon as possible to avoid Dermuge fees( this is a penalty assessed by the railroad for letting empty cars sit too long). In fact builders general in freehold would hold employees on overtime until the cars were unloaded. Once the car is empty and cleaned out (The car owners assess a cleanup fee if the cars are not returned cleaned) The employee of the industry in charge of Rail shipments contacts the railroad to tell them that the car is ready. The broker of the railroad then contacts the trainmaster who relays that through the computer system so that the yardmaster knows that there’s a car ready for pick up.
As for the cars delivery schedule once it is in the yard the yard master tries to get it out on the next local, you don’t want cars just sitting in the yard clogging it up. However if a tank car comes into Browns Yard in Monday morning and the SA-31 isn’t scheduled to go out until Tuesday evening it going to wait, this way all the freight for that area goes together and save costs. No reason to send one tank car down behind the locomotive on Monday. Also if the SA-31 calls at 4pm and another tank cars comes in on the CA-53 at 6pm it’s goin to wait until the SA-31 runs again on Thursday. This is just an example, every rail road is different, that’s why You should read up on the railroad you Model. And if your modeling your own freelanced railroad, make a rule and stick with it.
wow I lot of info there! Thanks! I had started to put together a little time table for my fictional industries but wasn't sure if this was something a lot of people do. But some good info on the car unloading that helps I didn't know turn arounds were so fast!
Hi Joe.. great segment.. magnets are cool aren't they? ok..two things.. first Ron Marsh from Ron's Train N Things.. he did a video on using spray foam for scenery.. he has found a way to clean the nozzle/tube for future use. Second..on the load. styrene cut to fit..add the nut or a washer if the load appears to be too thick and heavy..fill the car to just covering the nut/washer the same way you would ballast track..just a thought. Looking forward to the follow up to see how you bring this to a happy conclusion. Tom
Overland Transportation System thanks for the advise Tom! And thanks for watching.
GIOD SHOW, Joe I saw the gun at home depot the other day, $55, and you had to buy the cleaner can but I didn't check the price but it was about the same price as the foam I think. As far as the loads way not use the loasd that came with the car & just trim to suit your needs, a washer would work as well can and as far as the bar in the bottom just paint it like you saidbefoe weathering, thanks for sharing....
Jack O I like that Idea. Next video I’m gonna try it!
Is their a weight requirement for the cars? Isn't there a metal insert, plus the sand, the metal nut. Would this increase the workload on the engines?
Won't the floral foam work better.
When I use Great Stuff Foam it doesn't shrink. But the pink foam sounds better.
Good luck. If you do foam again try spraying the inside the hoppers with Food Cooking Spray before you foam.
Thanks for the tip! Thanks for Watching!
Have you weighed the cars after the load was created / added?
I know you had B.Bs glued in previously to add weight. What if you used the bag liner and filled the car with sand then Wet Water and Glue the whole load together. Insert the metal near the top before adding the final sand and glue.
You added weight and have a good load. Try on one car first as a test. LOL
Just a thought,
Chuck
Chazco I like that idea too! I will try it and see how it comes out. I will put into the next video!
[well, can always correct the problem and do the plan over]
sorry commented before the end of the video.
Otto Bettcher that’s ok!😆