The Inquisitor exploded with rage “you had the witch in your grasp and you allowed her to escape?…….there can only be one punishment for such monumental incompetence!”
am i the only one who thinks, that the inquisition haves for all wrongdoings the same ultimate punisment ?😅 they need more fantasy, just death is not enough for such heresy!
At last, an honest assessment of QueueFest 2023. We in fact, left very deflated. I am not some entitled Karen, I knew there would be queues with so many people there, but was perhaps naive. I took my 8 old year old son, possibly a mistake, but he is really getting interested in the hobby. There was just nothing for him to do. We played squigapult once, as that was a 10 minute queue. 3 hour wait for demo game, 2 hour wait for build and paint, 1 hour waits for any of the electronic games, and a very orderly very British queue to look at the Golden Daemon entries. He wasn't that interested in watching any of the tournament games, and the board game cafe was full while we were there. We left after 45 minutes after the moaning reached insistent levels, there was no way he could queue for any length of time. I dropped him off with mum who was shopping in the city and came back to try to see the Old World reveal, got there 45 minutes before to find the line closed already. Went to look at the cosplayers and Golden Daemon entries and left again. The 5 tables for 40k demos was a joke. Think you are spot on with the tournament tables taking up half the hall and that the space could have been utilised better, but there was plenty of empty space just after the entrance and in the foyer near the exits, they could have easily put more painting tables or expanded the board game cafe. Do not think we will be going next year.
I liked the way they avoided price tags so you felt pressured to buy the commissar for £22 after queueing for 20 minutes. I also liked that there were no staff around to compare your receipt to the actual contents of your bag.
I bet they didn't give deals for big buyers. STORY TIME At me local fantasy con a gunpla shop gave me and some rando ahead in the queue 15$ off the purchase. FUN TIMES
When I was younger I loved going to gaming related events and car events. But at some point or another, the events I went too made me realize that I wasn't missing anything by staying at home and watching things on the web. I guess I'm just a grumpy old man at this point lol. Hats off to anybody that still does attend the events in person.
It was nice to see you there from a distance while standing in a queue. Sorry I never got to say hi in person. I totally agree with you there was nothing really to do. Warhammer fest 2019 had loads more to do and people to speak too and it was better laid out. I went home at 1pm because I was bord and it was far to busy. I really didn't enjoy it this time.
Warhammer Fantasy is what got me into 40K. My brothers had the 5th ed WHFB starter. I would steal their models and paint them. Then I saw Tyranids in 40K and knew what army I wanted to play. Still have the first models I've ever bought.
Same, except it was 3rd edition Fantasy. Started with high elves, the Brettonia, and a full Chaos Dwarf army. I have 9 fantasy armies I’ve collected over 30 years. I still play Warhammer Armies Project and 8th edition tournaments. Im playing in one with my Bettonians this weekend.
I can only imagine Wathammer corporate doesn't like their creative types leaving and starting their own thing. I'm sure their creative types leaving has nothing to do with not being acknowledged by corporate during annual events or the amount of money they are paid: that's all entirely circumstantial.
How is it any different than buying a pack of a CCG? I'm not being snarky, I'm just not seeing it as gambling. The customer definitively receives one of the minis listed in the box they pay for even if it isn't the specific one they want. If you lose in gambling you get nothing. They also have the option of buying a full bundle and getting every mini plus one extra. CCGs don't even give you that. Don't get me wrong it is to some extent predatory, but that's capitalism. Businesses take advantage of their customers as much as they think they can get away with and GW is no exception. If they didn't offer the complete set in every bundle then I might agree as the customer would have to keep buying and buying to get a full set. This would likely harm addicts that couldn't stop themselves. For the people that "gotta catch them all" they can just buy a full bundle and have them all in the current format. I want to reiterate that I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I don't see it.
Thank you! You're the 1st RUclipsr who has actually voiced the frustration the average person felt attending the event. Hopefully GW learn from the experience.
One could argue dice rolls are gambling on it self, how ever i agree this decision is just cancer...and GW again shooting to their own kneecap intentionally.
I was with you in your 10th demo game, was great to meet you guys and I agree that the index cards are a nice touch - hope they find a way keep them going forward, it was so refreshing to look down and see everything in one place.
One more reason we need you to come to Adepticon. You will have fun. You will see great games and fully painted armies. You may even get to play in the Meat Grinder. Add Adepticon to your bucket list. We would love to see you there.
The thing I hate the most about gambling being shoved into everything as far as companies can legally get away with these days is how damn normalised it is. You barely ever see anyone even react to it anymore.
One of their employees Duncan Rhodes, an instructional painter for the Games Workshop channel, gained enough fame that he quit and started his own RUclips channel. Perhaps the elimination of panels, the elimination of credits in the rule books is just an over reaction for Duncan.
Oh it’s more than that… didn’t he start his own hobby paint line? It was one of those guys. Pity Games Workshop hasn’t learned to praise. Praise is as cheap as they could hope for, with a lot more company benefits than a forgetty pit.
The queue is just irl stimulation of queuing in GW online store to buy newly released models, only to realise 90% of them were already yoinked as soon as the doors open.
This sounds like an absolute nightmare. And it sounds exactly like something Games Workshop would put on. It shows their trademark level of regard for their fanbase.
Thank you for being such an awesome advocate for the tabletop gaming community. I completely agree with you about the gambling issue with gaming, its insidious and is morally repugnant. Keep up the amazing content
I'm new to this community via mini painting. I don't think I've ever seen anything like the outright contempt Games Workshop seems to hold its consumers in. I'm glad all the negatives from GW was offset by some great interactions with other humans you met there!
@@genghisgahan9623 Yes, yes I have heard of them. One awful business doesn't excuse another's behavior. But rationalize away GW's shenanigans if you feel you must.
@@jimholmes4729 well ill not defend blind boxes of constant releases of new codex which are out of date too soon. The same with the rubbish black library app. Just saying it's not as bad as wotc
I would genuinely like to see the Death Korps of Krieg command squad painted up by you. Please don't let it go into your impressive pile of shame forever hahaha.
Codexes have always blown my mind asunder with how obviously anti consumer they are. Big stupid books that are instantly outdated, never all available at the same time, with maybe a dozen pages of actual rule content and otherwise a shit load of recycled fluff and modeling filler. Just an absolute shit product, long live data cards.
As someone who went to games day in Birmingham on a coach from my local GW a few times as a kid, how the mighty have fallen! Every Games Workshop in the country used to have a table set up to demo games. There were hundreds of tables to play on, miles of things to see and do. The only people who were bored were all the dads, sitting forlornly in the stands reading the paper for 4 hours.
My friend had a day ticket and argued that there ticket had a different start time. They got to go in and because there queue was smaller they got in before us who had 3 day premium tickets
Great video. The gambling boxes is an interesting view, and I never thought about it like this, but you are 100% right. I was there this weekend but didn't see you! I definitely would have said hello!! I really enjoied warhammer fest, but after going to 2 x games days on 2001+2002, this was definatly disappointing. I entered the casual tournament, and that's what made my experience great, meeting people through that! I didn't bother even going to the shop with the ques!!
The worse part of the Space Marine blind boxes is that the Space Marines are literally just a quick CAD "get the interns to do it" job. Same boring space marines with a pouch moved here and an extra clip moved there; move his arm up this way. Literally identical to the stuff you can buy already.
While I am disappointed in keeping the codex system, one thing I do like that GW has stated is that all of an army’s information will be in one codex. I don’t have to have the Space Marine codex and Black Templar codex. I just need the Black Templar codex so at least they are working to trim down the number of books you need to look through/carry. But yes I do think it would have been better to just release the rules for all the armies and do the quarterly balance sheets and call it a day.
@@reddragon4482 I’ve seen some sources that say the data sheets will be replaced for free when the codexes come out. I also thought I saw something about codexes coming with QR codes to download/access PDFs so I am not sure.
@@oneearrabbit If it's all free i'd be ok with it but if they are going to backstep and start charging everyone for rule sets and codexes I'm going to give up on them lol.
Yeah the new gambling boxes have somehow made me even more disappointed with GW then I thought possible. I come from a family history of gambling and addictions in general, and the booster boxes being announced really ruined almost any enthusiasm I have for GW stuff as a whole. Its easy to see that this introduction is just trying to normalise and profit off of vulnerable, especially when looking at what has happened to gaming over the past 10 years in regards to microtransactions, loot boxes and live service games. Just sucks and I really hope there is enough pushback against it to stop it before it gets going :(
Old World - Unfortunately, the impression I got, was that they wanted to capture some of the extra money Games Workshop Bros (who aren't going to commit to other party games) have laying around but don't intend to treat Old World like a real game. It felt like it won't even get the attention Warcry or Necromunda receives with them repeating over and over that they were focusing on reissuing old models. "Oh we'll also make some new kits" sounded like a "Don't tip them off that we won't really support this game" comment.
thank you for saying this. I had the same theory! There is a % of people who are annoyed about the disgrace that is AoS but love the Old World; and GW believe they can just basically sell these people old models with a few bones thrown in there. Remember, they said the Old World is "not for beginners" which means it's the same bloated, ill-advised ruleset (80 page core rules?) with a fresh layer of paint. The remit is clearly NOT to "make it the best version of Warhammer Fantasy Battles" and "draw new players into playing it". GW have a limited time window to MILK these potential WALES before they reach that age point where they don't care anymore due to grandkids etc. It's basically a scam. Also, whilst as others have pointed out Brets and Tomb Kings have no AoS analog (though Tomb Kings were re-imagined tbf as the Bonereapers or whatever) - it's MORE likely someone at GW decided they need to bring out plastic kits of those two factions because Fireforge Games and Mantic respectively have brought out hard-plastic model lines for both factions themselves. Not a coincidence imo.
It saddens me to see one of the last standing old I.P. treated as such from the creators... Such disrespect... I feel so bad for all of the people that went to the event. We shall endure...
Mate lives in Manc and attended - he was massively disappointed and only had a 20 minute commute home - god help people with 3 day tickets who came from further afield in the UK or even Europe. We used to go to (and love) Gamesday when that was a thing so it's not like they are new to this. The offerings were pretty anaemic, it has to be said, and not being able to talk to any of the staff like you used to was a bit rubbish. Tbh, unless you were entering the tourney or Golden Demon, (or really REALLY needed to playtest 10th without just waiting a few weeks for some reason) there really wasn't a massive point to physically attending it versus watching a stream. Full sympathies to the actual event staff and all that but yeah it wasn't the best use of space and was pretty terribly organised. My two main worries are for people for whom this was their first wargames event and if the negative feedback means that they are soured on runnnig events up North going forward as I'd love it being up here more regular. The likes of Salute are just leagues better than this and as the top dog in the industry (with previous track record of running good events) there is simply no excuse for Fest being what it was. Hopefully they take any criticism on board instead of shrugging and saying "enough fuckers'll buy the tickets anyway" and make the necessary changes for next time. Some people did clearly enjoy it despite it all and good on 'em but a lot of people were also very disappointed and let down (inlcuding some people literally just getting off and going to Element Games just up the road) so yeah, fingers crossed.
I don't see any reason why GW wouldn't make changes, there's obviously been the hiatus between 2019 and 23 so there could've been a skill or knowledge loss as people change jobs and this is evidently the biggest event they've put on in a long time so it wasn't too surprising that there's been issues
@@labtec514 Thats fait but they are also the biggest entitiy in their industry and the pandemic effected all wargame event organisers - Salute still managed to be better run and a lot cheaper despite them not being a company but a wargames club that just happens to organise an annual event. It's entirely possible GW did lose staff with experience in the area, but then they're big enough I'd expect them to analyse that deficieny and and build up to a bigger event rather than just run a big event - they literally have people who's job it is to consider these things at a corporate level.
I admit I attended not knowing (or being interested in) anything about mainline 40k or AoS - I was there wholly to spend the whole day doing the Hobby Challenge on the Monday. And THAT turned out to be F'n rad, so it was a good time overall. Sorry to hear it wasn't so great for reveal/release stuff!
One argument for data cards is simply that they are more easily marketable. If they focus on making sure that the cards are done on quality paper, waterproofed very well and essentially design them as actual works of art in their own right it cuts down on pirating because a pirated work will not be as good quality. Add in some elements maybe to make even personalized data cards with even formatting options on how things are put in and they might be a more stable selling item more piracy proofed than the codexes
Was brilliant getting to meet in person, I said to a few folks it felt more of a social gathering with a convention added on the side that was decent. I was the ridiculously tall chap with baldemort outside on the Sunday 😄
Great to meet you on the Monday. Thanks for taking the time to talk and have a picky. I agree with all your points about the event I skipped a few bits and bobs as the lines were to long. Keep up the good work.
I introduced the wife to 6th edition Warhammer....and she wrote "data cards" for all the games we played...she found it the way into the game...we did a Round Robin and she played, Empire, Bretonnia, Chaos Dwarfs, Dogs of War, Orcs and Goblins, Lizardmen etc. She found these dark cards the way in...MAKE THE NEW WARHAMMER HAVE DATA CARDS!!! IT DOES MAKE IT ACCESSIBLE!!!!!!!
the employees at any warhammer shop are a vital factor for the hobby its always such a warm experience to talk to any clerk no other shops have that kind knowledge and love for the product and the world they are selling
14:15 - Completely agree that this language from GW is concerning. I think it goes to show that they're not going to actively advertise Old World to new gamers, perhaps even to the point of discouraging people from playing it. In my mind, it confirms what I think most of us suspected - that AoS will continue to be the game that is pushed and will not be usurped by the Old World.
It's going to be a Specialist games brand much like Aeronautica Imperialis or better example The Horus Heresy A.O.S. is the big brand it was never going to replace Age of Sigmar.
It was never supposed to be usurped, it was always for fans of fantasy. Its a rank and flank war game, its not supposed to be for beginners. Thats not what any of us WFB players want
They actually tried Datacards before (There was a Tyranid armylist printed in White Dwarf that used them) in 1st edition 40k. It never really caught on back then.
Totally agree with everything you said about the gambling boxes for kill team. That stuff has no place in the hobby and I’m really disappointed they’re trying to sneak it into the line and business model.
I'm only 5mins in and I'm already totally in agreement! especially the reveal and conference farce! The event they used to do at Coventry was waay better, just didn't feel like there was enough to do for a day, let alone a weekend at this event.
If you've got that many thousands of people all wanting to see a demo of 40k v10, they SHOULD have set up that mythical sound stage and fitted cameras around one of the demo tables so everyone could see it being played. Ouch.
Organisation wise it was , to put it lightly, not perfect. Nice models, good panels. But the lines were longer then they should be and some of the stuff was timed as if was only ment for VIPs . Ah and with lines like that , there should be some screens outside.
This reminds me of conventions. Long Ques are an indication of low to little content. If there were no lines / ques, you would see everything in 6 to 12 hours and then what is the point of the other three days?
Back in the day we used to print out army lists on paper. All the stats for your entire army on an A4 paper - and you gave one for your opponent as well,
Sounds like going to an amusement park and waiting in line for 2-4 hours for a up to 10 minute roller coast ride would be more fun then all the waiting around at this event. At least at most amusement parks there are places to sit down and things to look at.
I have backed a couple of RPG kickstarters over the years and they always manage to credit their backers. By way of example, the Infinity RPG by Modiphius core rulebook has 7 pages of credits dedicated to the names of all the backers. None of those people worked for Modiphius and backers were allowed to actually decide HOW they wanted to be credited (i.e. it wasn't just a list of names as supplied by Kickstarter). But yeah, I can see how it would be too hard for GW to credit the names of the people who worked on any given book
As someone who tried a few times to get into Warhammer Fantasy, it WAS NOT new player friendly. THe rules were extremely complex, the rule book was massive and expensive and uyou needed a lot more minis to start out.
@@Sinewmire I think many people who think 'x system isn't that hard to learn' are thinking of them learning a new edition rather than a completely new player learning all the rules for the first time.
I own a sackful of 3rd and 3.5 edition D&D books. Every single one of them credits the illustrators, writers and playtesters on an entire page dedicated to crediting the creators of the book and its lore/rules/etc.. And GW's excuse for not doing the same is that "iTs tOo hArD". Swivel on it, GW.
I used to love my Bretonnians and Fantasy battle, I wasnt even a AOS naysayer, but when it first dropped I said to the staff in my GW local store that I was just sad that it looked like Bretonnians would be going away in time. He pointed to the Stormcast and said, there is your Bretonnians. They lost a good customer that day. I was a little excited to see the new Bretonnian, but I wont buy anything new from them.
I'm probably not going to buy any of their "old World" stuff. I'm quite happy with my 3rd edition Empire and Bretonnian armies made of historical miniatures.
Having been press ganged as a till monkey for the company store at several games days, at least you didn't spend your time standing behind a register for 9 hours. Don't be disappointed about the answer you got, they treat employees the same, usually worse. Shouts of laughter
Thank you for doing this! Sonebody has to hold them to account. Very concerned by the way their business model is going, with employees, gambling etc., so it's good to be reminded that the game is really made by creatives and players, not them.
Games day used to be huge. Big games run my the various stores. Titan battles where you could take over a titan. Mini games. Then the hobbie stuff, modelling and more. You could also get your hands on yet to be released models. Warhammer queue fest was a real disappointment. Really could not see value in a 3 day event unless you were playing.
The most revolutionary thing about 10th edition I data cards, that's funny as that was the core of 2nd edition which is still really popular, they might as well bring back universal special rules, psychic rules just being added abilities you can use in each phase and the other popular early rules.
I enjoy your channel, it’s one of my go to in my morning routine with coffee and bagel (lol, made a typo with bagel, it autocorrected to gaggle). Eons of Battle, your channel and Tabletop Time.
Who would have thought that a card with all the info for your unit would be revolutionary. Every AoS player. Sigmar has had warscroll cards since first edition and they make the game better, simpler and faster. Shame it took 40K all this time to figure it out, I would have played it more
Downside of Ashes of Faith is a fair few models in the box make you pick which of two characters you want. After building everything in the box, you still end up missing 4 or 5 characters
is 300$ a reasonable price when kings of war 2 player boxes are a third of the price and have more models i know its not fair to compare because gamesworkshop is a sculpture company and mantic are a games company, but you know.
I have no time for GW for this reason. I posted this story in another forum as well. "Not everyone has a great experience with GW. Back in 2004 I planned a trip from New Zealand (had family business to attend to in Italy) and wanted to work in a trip to GW with my then nine year old son. I was in contact with some guy there who had arranged a tour and everything. We show up....nothing,. The guy was on leave and had told nobody and they basically said "oh well". We played a game in the gaming hall with some minis that looked like they were painted with a roller and had some food and went back to London to meet back up with rest of family and next day out of the UK. I was very disappointed and basically stopped buying GW models retail - became a second hand buyer for what I needed instead. I wasted enough on that trip to Nottingham."
Yooooo! I love your channel, wish i could have made it to warhammer fest! You literally give me hope of finding a really cool woman who is just as into this stuff as i am! You dont fluff stuff and call it like you see it not many other channels do that this is the highest value to me in your channel. Thank you!
Would the space marine heros boxes be closer to Pokemon cards than targeting gambling towards Children? I instantly thought of the gumball machine with "homies" when you leave the grocery store.
I pretty much echoe everything you had to say on the event! I only had day entry for Sunday but was keeping an eye out for you to say hello but I kept on seeing FauxHammer everywhere I went instead!
I watched a close friend gamble his rent payment every month and to this day, he's still gambling what money he can. It is a real addiction and should be illegal all together.
In GW's defense, it seems everybody makes a dog's breakfast of the GW reveal. The last two Adepticons bungled registration so many people registered for the reveal weren't able to get badges until the reveal was over. NOVA was better timing-wise, but there was an issue where people who'd signed up for the reveal didn't have evidence of it on their badges.
I went on Saturday and i did not have the best time. I was enjoying the scavenger hunt until the app crashed and I could continue. Had to start all over again so I sacked it off. The store was badly done too I think. There should’ve been a section for commemorative miniatures and a limit on the event exclusive miniatures…say 2 or 3 per person. I saw people with massive stacks of the two event exclusive models
Yeah, we went on the Saturday and it was very disappointing. Nowhere near the quality of the games days back in the day. Some very puzzling decisions like having one small display cabinet with the new 10th edition models where you got crammed in and bashed about when trying to see them and not nearly enough tables for the 10th edition trial games. Then the que for the shop was obscene. It also just didn't seem like there was much to look at besides a lot of video games that are already out and playable and a crap ton of tournament tables. Not in a rush to go back next year tbh.
Great Video. What did they mean about converting old WHFB units to the old world? Back in 2015 (AoS 1.0) it meant rebasing your models. Please tell me it's just a paperwork thing and not physical alterations to my collections. Also- did they say anything about game play? More similar to AoS or WHBF?
You just described a typical Spanish Games Day of the mid 2000s. Never ending queues, no panels, no authors, no nothing... just a few demo tables, and the chance to buy some boxes in the 3x4 store. At that time the Games Day was a date to gather internet friends with the same hobby once a year. The "James Experience"... well, it was not so great.
I have to admit the 10th edition figures are great but the thing that worries me is the use of individual unit cards it will mean they will be packaged with every new warhammer 40k release and box sets covering all existing units will be released separately
HEYYY!!! Thank you so much for using my Iron Warrior as your thumbnail 😃🥰❤️
oh awesome!!! it's AMAZING. I am super jealous of your skills :D
@@DiscourseMinis :3 you pinned it!! Thank you!!
@@DiscourseMinis Come to my table next time and get a photo :D Would be amazing
Looks awesome, sir! Never ceases to impress me how much work and dedication goes into many of the cosplays these days. Mad props!
@@ironwarriorcosplay sounds great :D
The Inquisitor exploded with rage “you had the witch in your grasp and you allowed her to escape?…….there can only be one punishment for such monumental incompetence!”
am i the only one who thinks, that the inquisition haves for all wrongdoings the same ultimate punisment ?😅 they need more fantasy, just death is not enough for such heresy!
A spanking!
Not a total disaster, Discourse - you did get a selfie with me outside the Q&A, after all! 😂
that's fair! :D
Wdym you are the reason for this video 😂
@@Tropicoboy that's what I thought Discourse was hinting at, at first! 🤣
At last, an honest assessment of QueueFest 2023. We in fact, left very deflated. I am not some entitled Karen, I knew there would be queues with so many people there, but was perhaps naive. I took my 8 old year old son, possibly a mistake, but he is really getting interested in the hobby. There was just nothing for him to do. We played squigapult once, as that was a 10 minute queue. 3 hour wait for demo game, 2 hour wait for build and paint, 1 hour waits for any of the electronic games, and a very orderly very British queue to look at the Golden Daemon entries. He wasn't that interested in watching any of the tournament games, and the board game cafe was full while we were there. We left after 45 minutes after the moaning reached insistent levels, there was no way he could queue for any length of time. I dropped him off with mum who was shopping in the city and came back to try to see the Old World reveal, got there 45 minutes before to find the line closed already. Went to look at the cosplayers and Golden Daemon entries and left again. The 5 tables for 40k demos was a joke. Think you are spot on with the tournament tables taking up half the hall and that the space could have been utilised better, but there was plenty of empty space just after the entrance and in the foyer near the exits, they could have easily put more painting tables or expanded the board game cafe. Do not think we will be going next year.
I liked the way they avoided price tags so you felt pressured to buy the commissar for £22 after queueing for 20 minutes. I also liked that there were no staff around to compare your receipt to the actual contents of your bag.
yeah noticed this myself!
I bet they didn't give deals for big buyers.
STORY TIME
At me local fantasy con a gunpla shop gave me and some rando ahead in the queue 15$ off the purchase.
FUN TIMES
When I was younger I loved going to gaming related events and car events. But at some point or another, the events I went too made me realize that I wasn't missing anything by staying at home and watching things on the web. I guess I'm just a grumpy old man at this point lol. Hats off to anybody that still does attend the events in person.
You're missing chasing furries around the convention hall
@@malakimphoros2164 I stand corrected.
Same thing for me. I can’t imagine dealing with a blizzcon or something these days even though I enjoyed it back then.
It was nice to see you there from a distance while standing in a queue. Sorry I never got to say hi in person. I totally agree with you there was nothing really to do. Warhammer fest 2019 had loads more to do and people to speak too and it was better laid out. I went home at 1pm because I was bord and it was far to busy. I really didn't enjoy it this time.
Same. Well, when you say "home" I mean "Pub" but near enough.
Warhammer Fantasy is what got me into 40K. My brothers had the 5th ed WHFB starter. I would steal their models and paint them. Then I saw Tyranids in 40K and knew what army I wanted to play. Still have the first models I've ever bought.
Space dinobugs be cute
Same, except it was 3rd edition Fantasy. Started with high elves, the Brettonia, and a full Chaos Dwarf army. I have 9 fantasy armies I’ve collected over 30 years. I still play Warhammer Armies Project and 8th edition tournaments. Im playing in one with my Bettonians this weekend.
That's so cool, happy to hear this little story. ❤👍
I can only imagine Wathammer corporate doesn't like their creative types leaving and starting their own thing. I'm sure their creative types leaving has nothing to do with not being acknowledged by corporate during annual events or the amount of money they are paid: that's all entirely circumstantial.
I am sorry to hear your experience was not good, but this video was hilarious 🤣. Thank you.
Goes to show, some of the best comedy usually comes from suffering.
Discourse is brilliant, her humor is razor sharp. ❤👍
At least my boy iron warrior cosplay made your thumbnail!
Thank you for speaking the truth about gambling. it's not needed and a terrible addiction. "You gotta catch them all" if you don't FOMO.
How is it any different than buying a pack of a CCG? I'm not being snarky, I'm just not seeing it as gambling. The customer definitively receives one of the minis listed in the box they pay for even if it isn't the specific one they want. If you lose in gambling you get nothing. They also have the option of buying a full bundle and getting every mini plus one extra. CCGs don't even give you that. Don't get me wrong it is to some extent predatory, but that's capitalism. Businesses take advantage of their customers as much as they think they can get away with and GW is no exception. If they didn't offer the complete set in every bundle then I might agree as the customer would have to keep buying and buying to get a full set. This would likely harm addicts that couldn't stop themselves. For the people that "gotta catch them all" they can just buy a full bundle and have them all in the current format. I want to reiterate that I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I don't see it.
They are for the Japanese market, and there, blind boxes are pretty common
@@andrewzucker9201 TCGs are gambling.
Its just gambling with a veneer over the top
@@PointyPaints Isnt game of thrones a LCG not a TCG? which means no randomness, and no gambling.
@@PointyPaints A LCG still gets expansions, which will look like boosters. But i cant find any reference to a game of thrones TCG online.
It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet in disused toilet with sign on the door which read 'Beware of the Leopard '!
Thank you! You're the 1st RUclipsr who has actually voiced the frustration the average person felt attending the event.
Hopefully GW learn from the experience.
That's bullshit.
Well said on the booster packs. Completely agree with everything you said on adding a gambling element into the hobby.
One could argue dice rolls are gambling on it self, how ever i agree this decision is just cancer...and GW again shooting to their own kneecap intentionally.
I was with you in your 10th demo game, was great to meet you guys and I agree that the index cards are a nice touch - hope they find a way keep them going forward, it was so refreshing to look down and see everything in one place.
It was lovely to meet you!!!
They said from day one every unit in 10th would have data cards. You buy them in packs per army. They are also going to be free online
One more reason we need you to come to Adepticon. You will have fun. You will see great games and fully painted armies. You may even get to play in the Meat Grinder. Add Adepticon to your bucket list. We would love to see you there.
I would absolutely love to go, alas its too expensive to fly over! :(
The thing I hate the most about gambling being shoved into everything as far as companies can legally get away with these days is how damn normalised it is. You barely ever see anyone even react to it anymore.
If you look at the majority of people playing 40k, they tend to sugarcoat everything GW does, and GW couldn't care less even if they don't.
One of their employees Duncan Rhodes, an instructional painter for the Games Workshop channel, gained enough fame that he quit and started his own RUclips channel. Perhaps the elimination of panels, the elimination of credits in the rule books is just an over reaction for Duncan.
Oh it’s more than that… didn’t he start his own hobby paint line? It was one of those guys. Pity Games Workshop hasn’t learned to praise. Praise is as cheap as they could hope for, with a lot more company benefits than a forgetty pit.
Rogue Hobbies also left GW to do it on her own.
Maybe they should treat their employees better? You’d think with how expensive their shit is they could at least pay them plenty.
The queue is just irl stimulation of queuing in GW online store to buy newly released models, only to realise 90% of them were already yoinked as soon as the doors open.
This sounds like an absolute nightmare. And it sounds exactly like something Games Workshop would put on. It shows their trademark level of regard for their fanbase.
Well said. I agree. GW just craps us out once they wipe your wallet.
Thank you for being such an awesome advocate for the tabletop gaming community. I completely agree with you about the gambling issue with gaming, its insidious and is morally repugnant. Keep up the amazing content
I'm new to this community via mini painting. I don't think I've ever seen anything like the outright contempt Games Workshop seems to hold its consumers in. I'm glad all the negatives from GW was offset by some great interactions with other humans you met there!
You obviously never heard of "wizards of the coast".
Games workshop is positively benign in comparison.
@@genghisgahan9623 Yes, yes I have heard of them. One awful business doesn't excuse another's behavior. But rationalize away GW's shenanigans if you feel you must.
@@jimholmes4729 well ill not defend blind boxes of constant releases of new codex which are out of date too soon.
The same with the rubbish black library app.
Just saying it's not as bad as wotc
I would genuinely like to see the Death Korps of Krieg command squad painted up by you. Please don't let it go into your impressive pile of shame forever hahaha.
I love that "the most revolutionary apart of 40k" (rules on data cards instead of in a book) has been a part of AOS for 5+ years
Codexes have always blown my mind asunder with how obviously anti consumer they are. Big stupid books that are instantly outdated, never all available at the same time, with maybe a dozen pages of actual rule content and otherwise a shit load of recycled fluff and modeling filler.
Just an absolute shit product, long live data cards.
@@thorinpeterson6282 I actually like codex's/battletomes. Reading lore and fluff is fun for me
As someone who went to games day in Birmingham on a coach from my local GW a few times as a kid, how the mighty have fallen! Every Games Workshop in the country used to have a table set up to demo games. There were hundreds of tables to play on, miles of things to see and do. The only people who were bored were all the dads, sitting forlornly in the stands reading the paper for 4 hours.
My friend had a day ticket and argued that there ticket had a different start time. They got to go in and because there queue was smaller they got in before us who had 3 day premium tickets
Great video.
The gambling boxes is an interesting view, and I never thought about it like this, but you are 100% right.
I was there this weekend but didn't see you! I definitely would have said hello!!
I really enjoied warhammer fest, but after going to 2 x games days on 2001+2002, this was definatly disappointing.
I entered the casual tournament, and that's what made my experience great, meeting people through that! I didn't bother even going to the shop with the ques!!
The worse part of the Space Marine blind boxes is that the Space Marines are literally just a quick CAD "get the interns to do it" job. Same boring space marines with a pouch moved here and an extra clip moved there; move his arm up this way. Literally identical to the stuff you can buy already.
My favorite part of this entire video was when Discourse hoped for the Leviathan box so she would have more space marines to paint. 😉
While I am disappointed in keeping the codex system, one thing I do like that GW has stated is that all of an army’s information will be in one codex. I don’t have to have the Space Marine codex and Black Templar codex. I just need the Black Templar codex so at least they are working to trim down the number of books you need to look through/carry. But yes I do think it would have been better to just release the rules for all the armies and do the quarterly balance sheets and call it a day.
Are they giving them away on PDF though?
@@reddragon4482 I’ve seen some sources that say the data sheets will be replaced for free when the codexes come out. I also thought I saw something about codexes coming with QR codes to download/access PDFs so I am not sure.
@@oneearrabbit If it's all free i'd be ok with it but if they are going to backstep and start charging everyone for rule sets and codexes I'm going to give up on them lol.
Yeah the new gambling boxes have somehow made me even more disappointed with GW then I thought possible. I come from a family history of gambling and addictions in general, and the booster boxes being announced really ruined almost any enthusiasm I have for GW stuff as a whole. Its easy to see that this introduction is just trying to normalise and profit off of vulnerable, especially when looking at what has happened to gaming over the past 10 years in regards to microtransactions, loot boxes and live service games.
Just sucks and I really hope there is enough pushback against it to stop it before it gets going :(
Old World - Unfortunately, the impression I got, was that they wanted to capture some of the extra money Games Workshop Bros (who aren't going to commit to other party games) have laying around but don't intend to treat Old World like a real game. It felt like it won't even get the attention Warcry or Necromunda receives with them repeating over and over that they were focusing on reissuing old models. "Oh we'll also make some new kits" sounded like a "Don't tip them off that we won't really support this game" comment.
thank you for saying this. I had the same theory!
There is a % of people who are annoyed about the disgrace that is AoS but love the Old World; and GW believe they can just basically sell these people old models with a few bones thrown in there. Remember, they said the Old World is "not for beginners" which means it's the same bloated, ill-advised ruleset (80 page core rules?) with a fresh layer of paint. The remit is clearly NOT to "make it the best version of Warhammer Fantasy Battles" and "draw new players into playing it".
GW have a limited time window to MILK these potential WALES before they reach that age point where they don't care anymore due to grandkids etc.
It's basically a scam.
Also, whilst as others have pointed out Brets and Tomb Kings have no AoS analog (though Tomb Kings were re-imagined tbf as the Bonereapers or whatever) - it's MORE likely someone at GW decided they need to bring out plastic kits of those two factions because Fireforge Games and Mantic respectively have brought out hard-plastic model lines for both factions themselves. Not a coincidence imo.
@@scepteredisle You say "GW believes" like it's not true. Doesn't matter how big a scam it is, GW Bros will still buy and loudly defend buying it.
I didn’t get that at all. Sounds to me they are smart enough to start small and build the game, without overpromising out of the gate.
@@scepteredisle you do you, we want that “bloated” WFB ruleset. Sounds to me like gw is listening to long time fans
@@mkuhnactual awww, are you mad because people like gw games?
Sad state of affairs, When the Golden Age of Gamesday seems to have been left behind. Thanx for the vid.
It saddens me to see one of the last standing old I.P. treated as such from the creators... Such disrespect... I feel so bad for all of the people that went to the event. We shall endure...
Mate lives in Manc and attended - he was massively disappointed and only had a 20 minute commute home - god help people with 3 day tickets who came from further afield in the UK or even Europe. We used to go to (and love) Gamesday when that was a thing so it's not like they are new to this. The offerings were pretty anaemic, it has to be said, and not being able to talk to any of the staff like you used to was a bit rubbish.
Tbh, unless you were entering the tourney or Golden Demon, (or really REALLY needed to playtest 10th without just waiting a few weeks for some reason) there really wasn't a massive point to physically attending it versus watching a stream. Full sympathies to the actual event staff and all that but yeah it wasn't the best use of space and was pretty terribly organised. My two main worries are for people for whom this was their first wargames event and if the negative feedback means that they are soured on runnnig events up North going forward as I'd love it being up here more regular. The likes of Salute are just leagues better than this and as the top dog in the industry (with previous track record of running good events) there is simply no excuse for Fest being what it was. Hopefully they take any criticism on board instead of shrugging and saying "enough fuckers'll buy the tickets anyway" and make the necessary changes for next time.
Some people did clearly enjoy it despite it all and good on 'em but a lot of people were also very disappointed and let down (inlcuding some people literally just getting off and going to Element Games just up the road) so yeah, fingers crossed.
I don't see any reason why GW wouldn't make changes, there's obviously been the hiatus between 2019 and 23 so there could've been a skill or knowledge loss as people change jobs and this is evidently the biggest event they've put on in a long time so it wasn't too surprising that there's been issues
@@labtec514 Thats fait but they are also the biggest entitiy in their industry and the pandemic effected all wargame event organisers - Salute still managed to be better run and a lot cheaper despite them not being a company but a wargames club that just happens to organise an annual event. It's entirely possible GW did lose staff with experience in the area, but then they're big enough I'd expect them to analyse that deficieny and and build up to a bigger event rather than just run a big event - they literally have people who's job it is to consider these things at a corporate level.
I admit I attended not knowing (or being interested in) anything about mainline 40k or AoS - I was there wholly to spend the whole day doing the Hobby Challenge on the Monday. And THAT turned out to be F'n rad, so it was a good time overall. Sorry to hear it wasn't so great for reveal/release stuff!
I saw your boss battle piece, it looked awesome! Sorry to have missed you at the event. Will you be at UKGE?
@@DiscourseMinis It's all good! I assumed a lot of folks would skip the Monday 😅
Absolutely will be at UKGE! I'll be sure to see you there.
@@TheNeonCaster sounds great :D
Great video. Worth the wait from the event. And amazing for making a strong statement about the gambling aspect that’s creeping in
The higher ups at Games Workshop dont deserve the fanbase they have.
One argument for data cards is simply that they are more easily marketable. If they focus on making sure that the cards are done on quality paper, waterproofed very well and essentially design them as actual works of art in their own right it cuts down on pirating because a pirated work will not be as good quality. Add in some elements maybe to make even personalized data cards with even formatting options on how things are put in and they might be a more stable selling item more piracy proofed than the codexes
GW missed a trick there: they could have rented out chairs for the people in the queues (at the usual GW markup rates) '£50 per five minutes'
"Imperialis Thrones" made of finecast resin so you know every one will be wobbly 😂
thanks for the channel it was nice to meet you on the Monday. as your were in Fanboy 3 after the event
oh it was great to meet! :)
The First Rule of Warhammer Fest- We don't talk about Warhammer Fest!
Hey! Really enjoyed this video, great summary of the whole event. An organisational s**t show made amazing by the community
Was brilliant getting to meet in person, I said to a few folks it felt more of a social gathering with a convention added on the side that was decent. I was the ridiculously tall chap with baldemort outside on the Sunday 😄
was lovely to meet you!! :D
@@DiscourseMinis I look forward to meeting you one day
Crowds are why some cons don't have single day passes for the main day
If they only have 5 demo tables, VIP (golden throne) and Creators should have priority at said😅😅 tables
Great to meet you on the Monday. Thanks for taking the time to talk and have a picky. I agree with all your points about the event I skipped a few bits and bobs as the lines were to long. Keep up the good work.
I introduced the wife to 6th edition Warhammer....and she wrote "data cards" for all the games we played...she found it the way into the game...we did a Round Robin and she played, Empire, Bretonnia, Chaos Dwarfs, Dogs of War, Orcs and Goblins, Lizardmen etc. She found these dark cards the way in...MAKE THE NEW WARHAMMER HAVE DATA CARDS!!! IT DOES MAKE IT ACCESSIBLE!!!!!!!
This was from lockdown onwards...
For being right off a long plane trip this was a great breakdown! Loved the video!
the employees at any warhammer shop are a vital factor for the hobby its always such a warm experience to talk to any clerk no other shops have that kind knowledge and love for the product and the world they are selling
I'm sorry it wasn't as you hoped and thank you for going regardless this is a great video!
14:15 - Completely agree that this language from GW is concerning. I think it goes to show that they're not going to actively advertise Old World to new gamers, perhaps even to the point of discouraging people from playing it. In my mind, it confirms what I think most of us suspected - that AoS will continue to be the game that is pushed and will not be usurped by the Old World.
It's going to be a Specialist games brand much like Aeronautica Imperialis or better example The Horus Heresy A.O.S. is the big brand it was never going to replace Age of Sigmar.
I'm OK with that. Not every games has to be aimed at everyone
It was never supposed to be usurped, it was always for fans of fantasy.
Its a rank and flank war game, its not supposed to be for beginners. Thats not what any of us WFB players want
@@Stonehorn 666%
They actually tried Datacards before (There was a Tyranid armylist printed in White Dwarf that used them) in 1st edition 40k. It never really caught on back then.
I know 5th Ed WHFB recommended writing your units out on cue cards…
Back in the ol’ DIY days…
If I remember correctly, all the vehicles in 3rd edition (when I started playing) had datacards too
Totally agree with everything you said about the gambling boxes for kill team. That stuff has no place in the hobby and I’m really disappointed they’re trying to sneak it into the line and business model.
12:18 that's my friend in the Eldar cosplay closest to the camera. She's amazing as making cosplay stuff.
I'm only 5mins in and I'm already totally in agreement! especially the reveal and conference farce! The event they used to do at Coventry was waay better, just didn't feel like there was enough to do for a day, let alone a weekend at this event.
Serves y'all right for going to Manchester. It's a cursed space
I can’t believe they let you anywhere near Nottingham.
I snuck in :3
If you've got that many thousands of people all wanting to see a demo of 40k v10, they SHOULD have set up that mythical sound stage and fitted cameras around one of the demo tables so everyone could see it being played. Ouch.
Organisation wise it was , to put it lightly, not perfect. Nice models, good panels. But the lines were longer then they should be and some of the stuff was timed as if was only ment for VIPs . Ah and with lines like that , there should be some screens outside.
This reminds me of conventions. Long Ques are an indication of low to little content. If there were no lines / ques, you would see everything in 6 to 12 hours and then what is the point of the other three days?
Back in the day we used to print out army lists on paper. All the stats for your entire army on an A4 paper - and you gave one for your opponent as well,
Sounds like going to an amusement park and waiting in line for 2-4 hours for a up to 10 minute roller coast ride would be more fun then all the waiting around at this event. At least at most amusement parks there are places to sit down and things to look at.
I have backed a couple of RPG kickstarters over the years and they always manage to credit their backers. By way of example, the Infinity RPG by Modiphius core rulebook has 7 pages of credits dedicated to the names of all the backers. None of those people worked for Modiphius and backers were allowed to actually decide HOW they wanted to be credited (i.e. it wasn't just a list of names as supplied by Kickstarter). But yeah, I can see how it would be too hard for GW to credit the names of the people who worked on any given book
I painted the DKoK Command Squad for my buddy recently. They were really nice models to paint.
Looks a lot of fun :)
It really was #quehammerfest. Golden demon was a great experience and made the whole weekend worth it. Thanks for showing my templar duel
You were in Spain?
Did you mean 'queue'?
As someone who tried a few times to get into Warhammer Fantasy, it WAS NOT new player friendly. THe rules were extremely complex, the rule book was massive and expensive and uyou needed a lot more minis to start out.
Not to mention how easy it was to lose during Deployment or during list building.
@@Sinewmire I think many people who think 'x system isn't that hard to learn' are thinking of them learning a new edition rather than a completely new player learning all the rules for the first time.
I own a sackful of 3rd and 3.5 edition D&D books. Every single one of them credits the illustrators, writers and playtesters on an entire page dedicated to crediting the creators of the book and its lore/rules/etc..
And GW's excuse for not doing the same is that "iTs tOo hArD". Swivel on it, GW.
I used to love my Bretonnians and Fantasy battle, I wasnt even a AOS naysayer, but when it first dropped I said to the staff in my GW local store that I was just sad that it looked like Bretonnians would be going away in time. He pointed to the Stormcast and said, there is your Bretonnians. They lost a good customer that day.
I was a little excited to see the new Bretonnian, but I wont buy anything new from them.
I'm probably not going to buy any of their "old World" stuff. I'm quite happy with my 3rd edition Empire and Bretonnian armies made of historical miniatures.
Having been press ganged as a till monkey for the company store at several games days, at least you didn't spend your time standing behind a register for 9 hours. Don't be disappointed about the answer you got, they treat employees the same, usually worse. Shouts of laughter
Thank you for doing this! Sonebody has to hold them to account. Very concerned by the way their business model is going, with employees, gambling etc., so it's good to be reminded that the game is really made by creatives and players, not them.
He couldn't hold his own dick. Let alone hold a company to account
Games day used to be huge. Big games run my the various stores. Titan battles where you could take over a titan. Mini games. Then the hobbie stuff, modelling and more. You could also get your hands on yet to be released models.
Warhammer queue fest was a real disappointment. Really could not see value in a 3 day event unless you were playing.
completely unacceptable for any hobby to not credit their contributing hobbyists... kinda the whole point
THANK YOU for asking the real questions
The most revolutionary thing about 10th edition I data cards, that's funny as that was the core of 2nd edition which is still really popular, they might as well bring back universal special rules, psychic rules just being added abilities you can use in each phase and the other popular early rules.
I enjoy your channel, it’s one of my go to in my morning routine with coffee and bagel (lol, made a typo with bagel, it autocorrected to gaggle). Eons of Battle, your channel and Tabletop Time.
Who would have thought that a card with all the info for your unit would be revolutionary. Every AoS player. Sigmar has had warscroll cards since first edition and they make the game better, simpler and faster. Shame it took 40K all this time to figure it out, I would have played it more
better late than never!
@@DiscourseMinis If only you felt that about the prospect of shutting the fuck up for once.
Presumably they did it Saturday-Monday because Monday was a Bank Holiday
I left at 1:30pm but I did get to say hello to you so not a total loss 😅
:D
You can't do panel interviews if you don't want your audience to see who's on the panel.
Interviews with hands?
ASL?
Downside of Ashes of Faith is a fair few models in the box make you pick which of two characters you want. After building everything in the box, you still end up missing 4 or 5 characters
GW going all in with testing how far they can push their fans.
is 300$ a reasonable price when kings of war 2 player boxes are a third of the price and have more models
i know its not fair to compare because gamesworkshop is a sculpture company and mantic are a games company, but you know.
I have no time for GW for this reason. I posted this story in another forum as well.
"Not everyone has a great experience with GW. Back in 2004 I planned a trip from New Zealand (had family business to attend to in Italy) and wanted to work in a trip to GW with my then nine year old son. I was in contact with some guy there who had arranged a tour and everything. We show up....nothing,. The guy was on leave and had told nobody and they basically said "oh well". We played a game in the gaming hall with some minis that looked like they were painted with a roller and had some food and went back to London to meet back up with rest of family and next day out of the UK. I was very disappointed and basically stopped buying GW models retail - became a second hand buyer for what I needed instead. I wasted enough on that trip to Nottingham."
Yooooo! I love your channel, wish i could have made it to warhammer fest! You literally give me hope of finding a really cool woman who is just as into this stuff as i am! You dont fluff stuff and call it like you see it not many other channels do that this is the highest value to me in your channel. Thank you!
'23 is the anniversary for return of the king, not two towers.
You should be cast as the next Dr. Who
i'm down
Would the space marine heros boxes be closer to Pokemon cards than targeting gambling towards Children? I instantly thought of the gumball machine with "homies" when you leave the grocery store.
I pretty much echoe everything you had to say on the event! I only had day entry for Sunday but was keeping an eye out for you to say hello but I kept on seeing FauxHammer everywhere I went instead!
@Discourse Minis, how goes your Space Marine army? Get the primer on them yet? :D
plan is for this month in anticipation of 10th :D
I watched a close friend gamble his rent payment every month and to this day, he's still gambling what money he can. It is a real addiction and should be illegal all together.
So Adepticon yay , Warhammer fest nay , got it. Honestly it gets overwhelming which events are worth the mula
In GW's defense, it seems everybody makes a dog's breakfast of the GW reveal. The last two Adepticons bungled registration so many people registered for the reveal weren't able to get badges until the reveal was over. NOVA was better timing-wise, but there was an issue where people who'd signed up for the reveal didn't have evidence of it on their badges.
I went on Saturday and i did not have the best time. I was enjoying the scavenger hunt until the app crashed and I could continue. Had to start all over again so I sacked it off. The store was badly done too I think. There should’ve been a section for commemorative miniatures and a limit on the event exclusive miniatures…say 2 or 3 per person. I saw people with massive stacks of the two event exclusive models
3:02 I dunno if you can hear it all the way in Ireland, you may have to turn the volume up to max, but I am clapping in the background.
Yeah, we went on the Saturday and it was very disappointing. Nowhere near the quality of the games days back in the day. Some very puzzling decisions like having one small display cabinet with the new 10th edition models where you got crammed in and bashed about when trying to see them and not nearly enough tables for the 10th edition trial games. Then the que for the shop was obscene. It also just didn't seem like there was much to look at besides a lot of video games that are already out and playable and a crap ton of tournament tables. Not in a rush to go back next year tbh.
That "kill team expension" is 100% a repacking of some cancelled Blackstone expension.
Great Video. What did they mean about converting old WHFB units to the old world?
Back in 2015 (AoS 1.0) it meant rebasing your models. Please tell me it's just a paperwork thing and not physical alterations to my collections.
Also- did they say anything about game play? More similar to AoS or WHBF?
You just described a typical Spanish Games Day of the mid 2000s. Never ending queues, no panels, no authors, no nothing... just a few demo tables, and the chance to buy some boxes in the 3x4 store.
At that time the Games Day was a date to gather internet friends with the same hobby once a year. The "James Experience"... well, it was not so great.
If you aren't credited it's harder to work for the competition because no credits = no professional experience
I cant remember being as excited about a GW release as much as i am about the inquisitor henchmen
I have to admit the 10th edition figures are great but the thing that worries me is the use of individual unit cards it will mean they will be packaged with every new warhammer 40k release and box sets covering all existing units will be released separately
We need to start the 'Get Discourse to Adepticon' fund.