This could KILL Warhammer
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Check out PORT ROYAL here! www.kickstarte...
PATREON: / discourseminiatures
TWITCH: / discoursegames
TTRPGs: / @dungeonsanddiscourse
DISCORD: / discord
UK AFFILIATE: affiliates.way...
TIPS: ko-fi.com/disc...
MERCH: discourse-mini...
Affiliate links that I have put in the description of this video link to those companies that I myself have purchased from and had good dealings with as a consumer. I would recommend these companies! These help support the channel, and don't cost you anything to use, so if you're going to feed your plastic addiction, this is a great way to do so!
All images belong to their respective owners.
✘ Title: Covert Affair ✘ Music: Kevin MacLeod ✘ License: CC BY 3.0 (goo.gl/BlcHZR) ✘ Download: incompetech.com....
Check out PORT ROYAL here! www.kickstarter.com/projects/firelockgames/port-royal
You forgot choice three. Secret brood sisters. Play the sisters but sneak in one with three arms or the like and see if anyone notices.
Back in the day we just knew which armies GW liked
@@Glaaki13 Space Marines. It's always Space Marines.
@@Spark_Chaser true and Eldar
Thanks, that's a kickstarter I am definitely backing!
The problem with 40K rules is that the head of the 40K rules team is among the worst codex writers of all time, Robin Cruddace. He's been in charge of 40K rules since 8th edition. His tenure as a codex writer famously saw armies he played and liked get their strongest releases ever, and those he didn't fall into nigh unplayability. Since his time at the helm of the whole game's rules started, he has continued to be responsible for some of the most aggressively unbalanced books that have ever seen the light of day, and anyone who wants to understand why 40K is such a mess should probably go read up on the man to understand better.
Matt Ward says hi.
I despise Cruddace since he Fed The Empire in WFB 8th edition.
@@thomgizziz Matt wrote better rules xD
@@thomgizzizhe knew how to write rules for the most part. He just loved wanking off ultramarines and making shitty fanfic lore
The problem with Ward was his lore. His crunchy was usually pretty great. He generally made the armies he worked on fun and powerful. When compared to writers like Cruddace, it appeared to be 'power creep'. But GW has never been good at getting their different codices to be coherently balanced against each other. Ward made armies fun to play, which is the most important part of his job.
And to be fair, his lore was offensive, but meme culture is what made it unbearable.
I agree - GW should distribute the rules electronically, with the codexes as books full of art and lore.
Free rules forever. The models cost 200 times what they used to.
@@KrisTomich By now, they actually cost more than their own weight in silver. Imagine, it is cheaper to sculpt a Warhammer model out of silver than to buy it as plastic crack, what madness.
Absolutely. I would happily shell out money for periodic new codexes full of beautiful art and lore if I knew that my rules and stats weren't going to be free forever, instead of pay to play every 5 minutes.
@@Furzkampfbomber They may cost more than THEIR WEIGHT in silver, but you couldn't make one in silver for plastic weight. If they were the same size but made of solid silver, they'd be more expensive.
@@GeorgeP1066 And the really fun thing about this is, I might buy such an artbook/codex as well and I don't even play the tabletop.
I am just a massive Wh40k nerd who loves the lore and who happens to also paint miniatures and create little dioramas, so I definitely don't need a codex. But a book with lore and art that I might even use as a template for my miniatures and is otherwise just fun to browse every now and then and to revel in the art? Hell, yes.
But as it is, GW's need to make more, so much more money _now_ is not only keeping me from buying codices, but their miniatures as well by now.
Here's my opinion on the matter: We used to call it "warhammer syndrome", the continuous power creep and reset cycle, applying it to other media too, as a general rule.
Warhammer has since forever always power crept the previous factions in order to sell minis, and I think here is no different. It's not about 2 teams, it's about which one releases more minis or is predicted to sell better / worse, and the codexes support that selling model, not viceversa
"Codices"
Throne! Culture still exists on the internet!
Spelling is just someones opinion.
@@fast1nakusNo.
@@Ikaraii literally yes.
@@fast1nakus hsratd obgusl jang!
@@fast1nakus good joke
Let's face it, the price you have to pay is what is going to kill warhammer.
GW have been killing of 40k for years now :|
3d printer go brrr.. well not actually but you know.😂
No, big prices would kill you
People have been saying that since the 90s.
@@nathannault2239 3D printing isn’t that big of a deal really as it’s still really a hobby unto itself. It’s like air bushes, they great tool to have at your disposal but they are a load of faff and the best ones have a high upfront cost too. Also resin sucks to work with so people are probably still going to buy plastic if they can afford it. But maybe one day metal 3D printers will be affordable and that will be a game changer.
I play World Eaters, and at my local shop someone else plays T'au. That's how I found out there are 2 design teams. In my opinion, both World Eaters and T'au should be the same, in the sense that T'au can only shoot while World Eaters can only rip and tear. With that in mind, T'au should absolutely decimate on the shooting phase, but World Eaters should do the same in the fighting phase. However, whenever I'm playing against him, it doesn't matter if I reach with a full squad of exalted eightbound and hit most of my rolls, 9 times out of 10 I'm not wiping his units. While he can easily wipe one full unit (or sometimes more) for each of his shooting units. That, to me, sounds a lot like the team who built T'au had no idea what the World Eaters were doing, and viceversa.
I really really really hope I get team A here, but it would take a miracle to actually have an army that feels playable (and yes World Eaters ARE playable, but with basically one army list that's the same across every table in the world)
there are a lot of haters, but i think you're doing very valuable work. you give a voice to the growing concerns of a mostly silent playerbase who have been sidelined by the toxic-positive spaces online all the meanwhile not sliding into the toxic-negative mindset of the pure reactionaries.
point is: i appreciate ya discord, keep up the good work!
thank you Craft :) Trying to do gods work here lmao
@@DiscourseMinisthe nice part is your honesty keep up the content.
"hopefully Games Workshop take all this advise to heart" That might be the funniest thing I've heard all week. 🤣
GW might actually be married to that codex system - well, not married exactly, but contractually obligated. They're probably still banking on the physical book sales because they've already signed the printing deals back before 10th edition launched, and they probably don't have enough faith in a completely online app-based model. I think that's plain to see when the app was designed to lock us out of army rules once the physical copies released. I haven't used the app since my Orks were taken off, and by now I imagine there's no reason to use it for free at all. The app was never treated as a way to actually enrich the game - it was only ever treated as a lure to make you want to spend more money.
The "Staggered Coded Release" theory is simple:
People will go for the 'latest and greatest,' so you release in drips.
Game Workshop fished for Whales before the internet was a thing....!
Yeah, and they probably have even longer term deals with their publishers that already have 11th edition in their sights. It's ridiculous but I wonder how much watching Hasbro/Wizards shoot themselves in the dick (most recently breaking things off with Penguin/ Random House) that no matter how not fit for purpose the curernt system is, the publishing arm doesn't wanna rock their own boat.
oh yes the 40k app, that was worse than the free battlescribe version. I still remember, how battlescribe had faster updates of new rules while in return, the 40k app bugged and shut down. totally worth paying for this.
GW has all those specialists, who work there as a fulltime job and they keep loosing vs some blokes in a shabby garage. first we find often better quality minis with stl files for cheap and now GW can't even organize their stuff.
I wait for the day GW gets rid of 40k, so some fanbase can take it over like it happened with fantasy.
@@calronkeltaran493 The only thing that's gonna make them give up on 40K is if people just stop buying the minis altogether, and there's always gonna be a small population of people who will spend whatever GW asks of them because they're addicted. I get in this conversation a lot on her D&D videos. Hasbro ran the numbers and said, confidently, that they could lose 90% of their player base and still stay in the black with the remaining 10%. I guarantee you GW has run the same numbers.
If I had a nickel for every time a Warhammer RUclipsr's two armies got a codex at the same time, I'd have two nicklels...which isn't a lot, but it's wierd that it happened twice, right?
(the other RUclipsr is Christian von Carmian, if anyone wonders)
is it 2 nickels, or just the one coz they are the same armies?
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber It are actually two nickels, but in order to use the second on, you have to buy the codex from GW. Which costs three nickels.
Solution: 3D print your armies, and play one page rules.
Then say goodbye to your local gaming stores - yay.
I second that. I haven't bought anything official since I finished my Tyranids. I've been kit bashing and using my Space Marine molds ever since.
@@kylekeenan3485I don't really have much of a scene. I mean I have three stores I can think of where they do tournament play but I'm just not interested because I'm not playing official rules anyway.
@@kylekeenan3485 Out of curiosity, do you think there is no other way for local gaming stores to monetize, aside from selling mini's from big companies like GW?
I think stores should monetize, what the customer want's. We don't need extra expensive versions of mini's that are readily available online. But, a place that offers table space, and terrain, is not bad, a business that organizes event's for said space, even better. (though, making friends, and organizing, is not that much harder outside a store, than inside)
Alternatively, if gaming stores started hiring artists, and licensing some good looking STL files, they could sell their own unique models. And with multicolor plastic printers, people who don't like painting, (like myself) could enter the hobby without paying an enormous amount of money on commissions.
Another interesting niche, for those who don't mind a higher cost is the multicolor resin printers. But, for now, multicolor resin printers would require businesses to make a ton of money per model, to justify the 100,000$ price tag. Still the possibility of customizing the colors of a mini on a computer screen, and then ordering them "pre painted" is cool.
@@kylekeenan3485 as a rule GW don't allow games in stores any more and I don't think your standard FLGS cares if you 3D print your army. There's one near me that sells printers and resin.
The new codex comes out on the 22nd (here) and will be outdated by the 25th with a FAQ. Enjoy!
na, they aint. gw is at least smart enough to give time
@chakradarrat8832 dude the last one I got was invalid BEFORE it arrived at the shop 😂
@@jtowensbyiii6018 i meant the detachments. not the points. i know points are outdated
This is why I moved to OPR...and Battletech. So fucking good.
I play with my friends Mutant Chronicles 2nd Edition . It was really affordable , you get 80 minis from 2 factions (40 Bauhaus and 40 imperials) and you get the complete Rulesbook/Lorebook/Army book which the Army book is great for using proxies . Even 2 20 sided dice and some knick-knacks too . Absolutly underrated and badass . Its a dead Franchise /IP but what campaigns we played was really awesome .
Its perfectly made when you go DIY kind of campaigns and just needed a fun and easy wargame to get into.
Its very niche but has its fans . Its still very underrated and jas even a TTRPG too that is way too cool to pass up . Mutantwiki is the best place and you get all books and rules from there and its free .
🤖I just started Battletech, do you play Classic or Alpha Strike?
@@Sorrowdusk Alpha Strike for now. but we love OPR so much we are converting the Mecha Hex OPR rules to be a lot more like alpha strike and will end up using those eventually.
As an Custodes player, I can’t agree with this more. Our faction was good(arguably to good), our units felt tanky, and did a ton of damage, which they should as there isn’t a lot of them. And then with the codex they stripped that tankiness away, weakened the units and gave us 4 crap detachments instead. Hell, one of our detachments is for sisters of silence only, in the fucking custodes codex! The community was on fire, and those embers are still sizzling to this day. And it didn’t help that GW decided to release some controversial shit in it to. Like our faction went from the all star of the imperium to nothing but female custodes jokes and arguments over night. It was and still is extremely disheartening.
Yeah, the difference between our codex and the Orks codex released at the same time is a joke. I've actually done fine playing Custodes in a casual manner, but the codex is boring as hell and lacks any kind of flavor. Every detachment is garbage. I'm certain that GW has no idea how to make codexes with elite, small number model armies.
As someone that owns Imperial Knights, I can't imagine what kind of shit is going to served up there. Guaranteed that there will be maybe 4 detachments and one will be an all Armiger/Wardog one, and a three others that will be mediocre at best.
Don't worry there have always been women custodes, that makes it better, right?
@@thomgizziz I would have unironically preferred if they had actually acknowledged that, no, there hasn't been female Custodes before, but there are now. If you want the setting to move forward, you could/should admit when something has changed.
That's not considering the lore gaslighting GW did
Does the sinking submarine that is games workshop hit the bottom of the sea, or will it implode first from the immense pressure? :P
When you think gw have hit rock-bottom, they pull out a new pickaxe and keep going.
Most fans stepped out before all the normies flooded it during 2019-thingy...
The sub has hit rock-bottom, but it has taken out the Games Workshop Knife and Mouldline Remover and is beginning to dig so that they can begin fracking operations.
GW makes the Titan Sub look sea worthy
@@CommDante Feel like most fans stepped out in like 1998.
GW insisted all main rules and codex rules were gonna be free at the dawn of 8th ed/end of 7th.
I even remember they gave vouchers for rule books that had been recent purchases that were being made obsolete by how different 8th edition was. (I bought 2 taurox primes with those vouchers.)
Then they backstepped. A lot.
😮 I missed out on those vouchers
The problem with you mentioning the playtesting of new codices is that GW have outright admitted they don’t playtest anymore and haven’t done so for Y figured out that they could cut out playtesting and save some money because people will still by the books whether they do or not.
Source?
Bah, all the cool kids play DBA ancients. No disasters there. Really though, playing GW games is like having the worst codpependant relationship ever.
WRG 6th edition more modern mechanics than anything from GW
I used to be cool! But now days I use Art de la guerre....
It does indeed feel like there are two design groups at work, or at the very least a dual dev pipeline where 50% doesn't even get a second playtest session after their initial design phase 6-12 months ago............it's almost like they don't actually care but are just churning out stuff. ;-)
Well, you're half right. None of this has been play tested in the last six months because that's how long it takes to print books
also their not crediting actual artists and othe talent they rely on (dogshit as it is) im sure theyve snuck a matt ward back in for more dogshit rules and inbalance
Meanwhile, my Votann are just quietly mining asteroids while the galaxy burns around them.
Rock And Stone Brothers
Reject the meta, embrace the guard.
For Arrakis, I mean Tallarn 😅 yeah my army looks like fremen 😂 great 3d sculpts
What you're suggesting they should do - put something out every now and then for everyone - is exactly how they did it twenty years ago, with White Dwarf and Chapter Approved.
The game broke before the company did... OPR Stands!!!
My solution: Not a penny more to GW until they move towards a better codex system. Each of my armies has had the B-team writing their rules and it's soul crushing. The time and energy I spend on making worthless rules and datasheets work is demoralizing to say the least. I'll 3D print all my miniatures moving forward and pirate all rules I need to play the game. Thanks GW.
Been doing this for years. If you're not stealing from gw you're stealing from your family.
Go back to your favourite edition. I recommend 7th. Don't listen to internet talking heads. Yes there were significant imbalance issues. But you and you're friend group can navigate them as best suits you. 7th was peak customisation and fluffy.
Traitor to the cult! The Patriarch will hear of this!
I agree and think that regular real updates would be better. Dark Eldar got a new detachment and that has gone well with the DE fans.
I remember them suggesting at the start of the edition that there would be regular rolling releases through the year - I guess they just meant kill teams.
It is also possible that there is only one team and they have to get 2 projects done in a few months and just don't have the time. So one codex gets priority.
Oh I hadn't even thought of the Dark Eldar detachment! That's such a great example, because it went over soooo well (and was a great update)
Me, who still remembers all of 5th edition and its infamous split between A B and C team writers: "First time?"
GW's Edition churn is FAR too fast to support codexes for as many factions as are in the game now. What they should do is:
Release army codexes as a 3 ring binder, with initial purchase having Lore, Hobby and Rules. Every 6 months release a rules update packet for each army. This could be just a few sheets, or a full update if a faction needs serious rebalancing, but either way including a page w/ points (maybe even highlighting point changes since previous update). These sheets are added (with instructions on which rules sheets to remove if needed). They could even include a couple pages of Lore/Hobby - (here's another story, here's another paint scheme, here's a weathering technique, here's a fold out poster,etc.) to bulk out if there aren't a ton of additions. A new detachment or two like you suggested. A new model release every other rules update (unless you're playing space marines in which case they also get a Space Marine Lt. every 3 months with a new special rule.) - Combine this with automatic digital updates in the app and they could have a really robust game.
Of course the problem with trying to achieve actual balance when you've got a couple dozen factions is that with 20 factions, ONE round of playtesting requires 400 games. However you really are going to need 10 or 20 games per matchup - which really the only way to achieve would be crowdsourcing. Imagine if every six months in addition to the actual updates they released digital "beta playtest" which competitive players could play and then report back on their matches (using the app!) so they could see what was working or not, and then use that to develop the next update ... 3 months of free player testing, 3 months to do internal checks, and then print the next update would be plenty of time for a magazine style update (ideally pre-punched to fit in the 3 ring binders).
One easy way to fix this was to just make the rules free on the app instead of expecting everyone to buy a £35 book with a code at the back to add that one specific army's rules to your collection.
...
Pffft, yeah, like that'd ever happen!
If, as you suggest, you know what this game needs, perhaps you do what my friends and I did for the couple of years between the arrival of the figures in our local indie hobby shop and the shopkeeper grasping that he needed to stock the rulebooks as well: approach 40K the way Wargames Research Group approach their design. That is, decide what you want the game to cover, have a look at the established lore (most of which is available online), fill any gaps with your own creative input and, on those bases, write your own rules. Start by cooking up an agreed-upon core mechanic and build out special case rules, army lists and scenarios appropriate to the shared head-canon and preferred play style of your gaming circle.
I reverted to this approach when I was disappointed by 5th ed; the results won't play at Warhammer World but it's a lot of fun. 40K's big, open-ended lore is tailor-made for this sort of thing, it's cheaper, and it frees you from the tyranny (and, as you credibly suggest, vagaries) of release schedules. One of the more abiding decisions in the 'local' edition of 40K, it may interest you to know, was squatting the Sisters of Battle.
The homebrew approach is, if nothing else, a more constructive use of time than making videos predicting the imminent self-inflicted collapse of GW. People have been doing that since the Battle Manual came out - coincidentally making genestealer cults way more dangerous - and it mysteriously never happens.
Question: Did your squat Grey Knights as well? Because they make absolutely no sense as an army.
We do this a little, we just pick 3 faction Stratagems each rather than use detachments and create Homebrews for our own lore. Also mix the best parts of match play with our own missions and narratives, calling them Hybrid Games.
@@eaglesfly5236 I agree it makes no sense for whole armies of them to be wombling around (cf. Skitarii) but they are a nifty idea. Our compromise was to add a Grey Knight secondment - a Terminator librarian with two bodyguards packing force weapons - to an variant all-Terminator Spam list we threw around. Nobody had enough Terminator figures to playtest that list, so it remained more flavour text to the armies we did play than actual rules.
During AOS 2.0, The community was made aware that there were in fact two battle tome teams, as one would come out and have very deep in flavorful building patterns, And the follow-up to that would be very narrow yet competitive build patterns, When Warhammer TV was doing their little podcast they even had an episode where one of the rules writers addresses it.
GW needs to do three things here. First, separate out the lore into stand alone books. They should continue to publish these. Second, split the rules into casual and competitive. Publish the casual rules as an edition, then annual updates. Third, publish the tournament rules on their app and make them available online. These rules should be the most expansive and detailed, but should be easily searchable and have a dedicated list builder.
If they have two rules committees, have one work on longer term publishing models with physical prints. Have the other working on balance and precision. GW gas two big audiences, casual and competitive, and they are focusing on competitive. They need to have a streamlined version to play. Lower their artificially high barriers of entry for the casual player, without sacrificing their complexity for tournaments. People can play one or the other or both, but give the players a choice other than walking in the door to a $500 price tag to toe dip.
There's one slight problem with trying to repair this issue: GW only cares about making money.
Doesn't matter if they have two completely different communities to try and please that cannot coexist with the same rulesets, the only thing that does matter is "Line must always go up!" and any problems that causes players are to be ignored.
And as long as you continue to give them that money, that's never going to change.
@@SirFailsalot91 Deadzone for life.
tournament players dont want expansive rules
simple short and easy to break is their desire
its casual players that want the battle to be a story
with rules somewhat resembling the lore
tournaments arnt going to care that synapse doesnt exist anymore, but anyone playing out a battle with friends is going to have a hard time pretending its anything like what warhammer used to be
Dark Angels got the C-Team. I have not played a single game with my Dark Angels as anything other than standard Space Marines, and those aren't great either.
One could argue that the rules are only a means of which to sell the miniatures, so it would make sense to distribute them freely. It might even be profitable for them to do so.
The genestealers got their revenge the sisters got the worse army box release yet
The first 10 minutes I was shouting that your view was wrong, that the codexes are reflecting the meta from a year ago. Glad you got there, but wish you had done so sooner. But you hit the nail on the head. It's so frustrating to see how 10th indexes were released online, and on the app, and free (and in the case of Drukhari, added to seamlessly), and then right back to the shitty codex system with all its flaws. Maybe they'll try fully free rules in 11th...
"The biggest bad of all, The Brits!"
England has been really silent since the diss-track drop.
Not all Brits are English.
You do know all Space marines are not loyal to the emperor don't you? to put it in terms you might understand, Brits are made up of Scots, Irish, Welsh and English nations, ie. not just English! That is like calling US peeps Canadian or Mexican as they live on the same geographical land mass!
@@Mikey__R"But what about Wales?'
"What *_about_* Wales?"
Games Workshop's app is criminally underused. I was just building an army on there today thinking to myself "Wow... why can't I just like... click on a button for this unit and be taken straight to the shop page for it? Why don't they have the Crusade rules for the Crusade books they want me to buy? Why didn't they take even the very modest effort to create crusade orders of battle so you can track advances and the like in this app? What are they even doing over there?!"
So I suggested this... and got an email back saying they couldn't accept unsolicited suggestions. It's almost like they're designing their business model to fail. Like "Hey, look... we hate getting new ideas for free. We also super hate cross-promoting our products to sell more products that build off of existing synergies that players already have."
I've been painting up 2 bolt action armies with my father who is a history buff and reenactor. I wanted to get him into my hobby and Warhammer was never going to do that. We haven't gotten to play yet but we will in a few weeks to a month when we're done. It's been enjoyable just sitting talking with him and listening to audiobooks
"I'm choosing the girl to live, not the four armed little monster"
The words of a true Loyalist
Yeah, free rules and updated index's would be the preferred move, but codex's still sell because people need to play the armies they have, so it's a weird scenario where the best option as a consumer is to pirate the books or use sites like Wahapedia
That Trench Crusade game is starting to look more and more appealing
No… no… different title: “This could KILL YOUR FAVORITE WARHAMMER ARMY!” (Since I just saw the title change. 😉)
I'm reminded of Total War Warhammer lord packs, where it's pretty much accepted by everyone (except some Skaven mains who refuse to admit that they've been getting favoured treatment) that each one has a winner who clearly received the lion's share of the work and attention, and a loser who didn't. Which is probably less of a "two teams" thing and more of a "one team, and that team plays favourites" thing.
Writing the codices based on the balance a year ago does sound disturbingly plausible, though.
I'd love to see the Codex split Lore books for each faction with scenarios and stories and paint guides, these could get update with volumes and Campaign books moving the narrative forward. The rules would progress in much the way you suggested
And this is why para bellum 's conquest is better. No codex system. Armies are always in active playtest and get frequently adjusted.
Been feeling this since my Dark Angels were killed by the new supplement.
Data over lore. Do I need more background or better ways to smash my enemies and see them driven before me? Is that even a question?
If Games Work was smart they would release a proper digital version of the game, as this would not only massively grow the player-base by bringing down the barrier to entry to "average nerd" levels which would still be like running headlong into a concrete wall, but it would give them full and detailed access to tens of thousands games being logged which would basically eliminate the need for all their incredibly time consuming game testing.
I also play both these armies, and I'm personally pretty happy with the genestealer cult codex. I didn't enjoy Index Neophytes because I didn't have the infantry models I needed. The GSC codex gives us a lot of cool ways to play. I agree that the detachments are a little too focused, but it's still a huge improvement over the index.
Furthermore, the sisters have the Penitent Host, which is SO focused that the units are point costed based on their best version and not really worth the price anywhere else. I did enjoy their index a great deal though.
I do feel like maybe it was written from the perspective of someone who plays AGAINST them though. The army rule seems balanced if you're thinking about "having your kill neutralized" by a Cult Ambush roll. But I it doesn't account for the units having the ambush rolls priced in and still being a frustrating, unreliable army rule.
Your observations are spot on. The rules should have been distributed the way you said. Right now its 70 USD to buy just Abaddon! I remeber you could buy him for 40-50......i have been into this hobby since it first started. The prices are getting to extreme. Free digital or online rules needs to be a thing.
Your suggested fix for Games Workshop seems to be exactly what WotC is trying to do with Dungeons & Dragons... 🙂
It's almost as if, now hear me out, that _perhaps_ they shouldn't have scrapped all of the books between editions without having the books ready to go at launch. You know, something they've never done before because it bricks the game while factions wait for things to come out. And that's without taking into consideration the fact what _has_ come out has been both heavily culled and also heavily nerfed.
Codicies aren't the problem. Physical books aren't the problem. In fact, the super handy data cards show that physical is very welcome! This is down to poor writing and planning. That's why most updates to the game are point-based. GW want to make this a super simple game. Why? Who knows. Maybe to maximise profits? That's a typical answer. But who can say for sure?
This video didn't send me a notification, and wasn't on my home page again. Not sure why - it looked like YT was finally figuring out you're my favorite content creator
Oh no! Thank you though :D
oh my god, please don't pitch Detachments DLCs as a business concept to GW.
Every 3 Months you need to purchase the latest 19,99USD DLC for your army.
this has been the case for ages in age of sigmar, they became known as sin and bin, you could even see it in the writing styles and wording within the rules. Good examples are the daughters of khaine battletome (sin) and hedinites of slaanesh (bin)
I cant wait for her to see that sigmar is doing better than 40k.
😅 Sigmar was ALWAYS a testing ground for 40k. Perhaps 40k can finally learn something?
White Dwarf would be the perfect print model for new units and rules. Codex releases at this stage shoudl be lore and "core units" only.
There are a few things GW is really good at. Shafting you for books. Making good units bad, and bad units gooder.
I play I guard, D guard, orks, nids, necrons, marines, demons, and GSC. I don't buy the books, I buy the codes for the app. Book goes in a box.
IMO they should scrap the book(s), although there are arguments for their existence. The cost of the WH app is still there, and with no book to buy, people will be more apt to buy into new armies.
I'd be happy if they just went back to the 2 piece clam shell box of 15+ years ago. That's all I want
I've made the switch to One Page Rules from 40k and honestly I just simply enjoy it far more.
Also doesn't help that the cults were never meant to be a part of an existing army. They are suffering from being an off shoot. What is their lore win con? Eaten and reused by the 'Nids. Sisters on the hand started as the core of that army. Everything got added to it back in 3rd and 4th, Went from the sisters to the full church. Genestealers are like the old Blood Angels, or Dark Angel 3rd ed codex. Supplementary. Trouble is they will never price them as such.
Also to EVERYBODY complaining about a meta being new. Cast your mind back to flyers being introduced. That was untold horror.
When 10th was announced they said free digital rules. What you said here is exactly what I thought/hoped they would do.
Maybe GW is so hesitant on putting everything completely into the app because the saw the backlash WotC got when they announced they were doing it to D&D. Though WotC wanted to charge people twice for the physical and digital books. Idk. Just a thought. Putting everything on the app would be great for Warhammer and if they made the codexes art/ lore books the people who play those factions would buy them up in a heartbeat.
I like how with One Page Rules whenever they do an upgraded version, all of the army pages get an update too. That's really cool and makes moving to the new version easier. Thanks for this video, I had almost forgotten teh hot mess of how codices are altered every new version GW comes out.
Discourse is a power gamer: CONFIRMED!
😂
Super Hardcore Competitive sports player..... in a game about Space Aliens VS Super Soldiers 😂😂🤣🤣😂😂
I really love the art and lore of the Codexes. The codexes should be exclusively for narrative play. The main game should use free rules on the app.
I have played Chaos for over 20 years and I haven't enjoyed a Chaos codex since the 3rd edition. Every new edition seems to be a nerf to the most fun and flavorful aspects of the army. Gone is the ability to construct a fully customized Chaos Lord. I can't even use the model I built as the lord of a custom renegade chapter.
There are no book stores where I live: There is a grand Barnes & Nobles 10 hours away. Went. First the first time in decades instead of an isle of Black Library there was one - One! - 40k book and no fantasy. It was a reskinned omnibus that I already own ...
But how will GW make money if they can't sell you overpriced products they don't have in stock because of scalpers and limited edition products?
skirmish is the way! i moved over to kill team and warcry 2 years ago and never turned back. 1 box entry point with more dynamic and competitive gameplay while leaving the balancing to the game designers instead of players who find ways to break the game with cheese lists. a player can never cheese bespoke teams, resulting in pure-skill gameplay and all around balance
This is why I am hesitant to want a Guard codex, it would be nice to get better an updated rules. But then I know they could make their rules worse for a lower tier army that keeps getting punished and homologized to the point they can't compete since they are not someone's favorite.
To be honest they don't even need to go free codex. Instead they can release new rules per unit alongside the new models well producing models without the rules which would be cheaper. This way they can balance each unit based off what the current state that unit is when compared to other units.
As for being behind when arriving at tournaments, gw could produce tournament booklets which could be a small fee and be simple pdf or just a batch of 20 booklets detailing all up to date units.
This method would allow for them to create more modules that remain relevant for longer well also encouraging the purchase of at least one model per update which could be as frequent as needed
Its been 4 years since I gave GW a penny.
4 GOOOOOD Years.
Could it be that there is 1 team, sets up an initial timeframe, agreed by management, then, management says that they have to rush out the second codex to hit an arbitrary timeframe after giving the first codex more time to be well developed, thus, rushing the second codex release....
The Sophie's Choice reference was pure gold! Well played. 🤣
Was I only the one who read this title and thought "Oh, I do hope so."
Its all about thoses quarterly investment/profit calls. Big realeses each quarter to keep investors happy when they see the revenue spike and thus the profit coming down the line...
Thats why GW has this kind of model. If they just had a constant small and often realese schedule you dont see those nice spikes in your earning calls 4 times a year
While GW's behaviour regarding codices does tickle our pattern-recognition, they are simply caving to social pressure and their ESG overlords. There was never any doubt which codex would get preferential treatment, ESPECIALLY when one has the word 'patriarch' dribbled all over it.
This and destroying 30+ years of lore on a whim dont forget gw is doing that too
It's not on a whim. Look at their investors and you will find the ever-insidious Vanguard and Blackrock. Ofc the girls got the better codex...they need to keep their ESG score up or they lose funding.
@@reson8 i donr care that rhe sisters got a better codex. Changing rhe lore bothers me o im aware its rhe damn onvestors. People who havw zero knowlwgde of rhe lore ans just want it to be inclusive. I havw to say for a violent, militeristic, totalitarion, xenophobic world its pretty darn inclusive and progressive already.
@@reson8 getting a better codex is meta nonsense not lore realated. Spitting on 30 years of lore because some fat cat says they shpjld pisses me off
@@scotthartley7837 I don't mind if they add new lore, but ret-conning established/current lore just to suit their new political agenda is just desperation.
@@reson8 yeah its not that they are its why they are and then they call fans bigots and act like we arw dumb. Not realizing most fans abosrb lore like sponges and are fanatic almost religous about it
Rules churn drives model sales. A balanced meta doesn't reward players for buying a second army when their first gets nerfed.
Warhammer is a game that rewards players for spending money, which seems completely obvious when I say it out loud. As a game, it careers on at ever greater speed simply because we're all addicted to buying new stuff. I don't think it'll fail any time soon.
My Dark Angels got the bad team.
I think GW should release the rules and the stat sheets as free pdfs and focus the codices on lore and hobby tutorials. Jam them full of artwork, photos of exceptional miniatures, terrain, custom builds, and tutorials on everything from painting (faction colors guide; creating your own shades and washes; Gothic lettering; custom banners; light, glints, and shading; mmm and true metal; gore, rot, and wounds; rust and battle damage; Blanchitsu and Grimdark; etc) to faction-specific terrain and kitbashing. They should be massive tomes worthy of the name codex.
Kinda crazy that Genestealer Cults are focused in the new Kill Team and Necromunda boxes but got this awful 40K Codex.
I gave up on GW back when they released 9th. The prices finally switched me to Miniature Agnostic games like Deth Wizards (recent) or Battletech.
this is something i have pointed out the game needed to do since 3rd edition when codex releases were so slow you might not even see you codex before the next edition, ie sisters of battle, second ed, then never again until 8th. and part of the reason why i moved to Malifaux, each book release there contains small updates for each faction. and having worked behind the scenes for wyrd, it also made testing and balancing much easier, as far as how interactions with other forces new and old. and testing was a long and intensive process spanning the majority of a books development cycle, GW will never learn sadly
Ahhh so that is why the Genestealer Battleforce box is still available on the US side of GW webstore
$60 for an artbook is bullshit.
I finally got into Sisters around Christmas 2020. Bought a bunch of models, slowly started building them, Asked around if I should buy the codex or wait, and everyone said "We were the last codex of 8th Edition, it'll be a while before we get our 9th!"
Two. Months. Later. 9th Ed sisters codex announced! New tank! Paragon Warsuits! Girls with Shields!
Nothing major happened when I decided to buy Tau when their 9th Ed codex dropped...until GW announced Squats were coming back. Now, I was waiting on a Kroot refresh to get some of those, but I had mostly gotten into Tau because they were the only technological faction IN THE GAME that was ACTUALLY ADVANCING. My first choice was Squats...who were Squat'd..until now they aren't. Buy the 9th Ed Army Box...and get super duper annoyed that the book was already FIVE DAYS OUT OF DATE!
So I decided then and there that I wasn't giving GW a third chance to burn me on Codexes.
You know you want to play Old World...
I've been looking at 2nd edition and it's made me nostalgic for my childhood, back when it was cool and scratch built stuff was encouraged
Didn't know about your Warhammer channel. Only knew your D&D one. Glad I found it because this is good info. Thanks.
GW employees don't understand their game?!
Nooooooo. That cannot by true! Just look at how Jervis Johnson constantly told people that elf elite infantry was just fine in units of ten with full command and maximum amount of magic items!
By rules team do you mean a single rule writer who writes three codexes at the same time? This happened in AOS 2.0 but you could see who wrote the battletomb. One writer was more balanced and one made factions overpowered. ☠️
While I get what your saying..the pattern is just something we are making atm. Tyranids and space marines are equal pretty much. Ad mech tucked true. But that is just straight up datasheet issue. Custodes got nerfed sure and necrons are great. Chaos and tau are fantastic though and they came out at the same time. Like both are fantastic
Sisters are good yes! I'm excited for them! But gsc has *always* been doomed and gloomed. They require so much big brain that no one ever gets them right just at the first glance. Always requires lots of play. And tbh their index was miserable to play against and most people are mad they don't get a free 700+ points anymore and can't pick up and drop down their army on a moments notice
I'd say not to fill in so much doom over this. These two codex are the first being released that basically were not pre written with the start of the edition...which I don't know if that's good or bad
The real story should be gw moving away from rules written in books that get outdated before they are even released. They need to follow infinity and conquest and make their app free for all rules and builds. Still release books. Most of us will still by for art and lore
If this was true, how come gsc did so well competitively?
Distill it even further, if they just made inline rule updates, they couldn't cash in on $50 plus dollar books
I'm so happy someone with a channel is saying the thing I've been saying for nearly 20 years now. GW is too slow, codex's need to be fluffy stuff to get you into the hobby and give you painting ideas, NOT THE RULES. Duh Rewls need to be done on a faster easier distro method like oh, idk, PDF DOWNLOADS.
Ep, exactly like by the Custodes and Orks. Custodes got nerved into the ground, and the Orks were strong...
Why didn't they turn the Codexes into lore books / campaign rulebooks??? 😭😭😭
It would let them avoid this mess AND keep a steady stream of content/income.
Okay, but at the start of 10th Tau were abysmal and in the Tau/CSM release the Tau were the lesser codex. So if the theory holds true, Tau should have been OP when their codex released not nerfed.
People just need to understand that the rules and balance mean nothing to GW except as a method of driving more sales.
They will do anything they think will sell more models.
Whenever they have a new miniature to advertise the rules are going to written to supplement that marketing push.
So long as you keep that in mind, everything they do makes sense.
Honestly? I think they should bring the index and then only rules etc. for new minis as they are introduced. No updates or corrections anymore.
And, most importantly, they should make 2 very distinctive games out of 40k. One the normal game for the regular players and one the competitive game. The y would also call them something different, like "Warhammer 40k" and "meta-tournament-game with plastic minis".
I have over 10k in 40k minis made by GW and FW from 87 to 2017 much of it is still grey, all of it boxed and packed. It is quite likely that they are going to be part of my legacy.