I initially heard $99 and was thinking "damn, this is harsh for a budget headphone". Once I heard the actual price (much later) in the video I quickly changed to "holy shit, what were they thinking even releasing this?"
was thinking the same thing. people always seem to bring up the 900 or 909 when talking about fostex's "good" DD headphones, but this one always struck me as the best. feels like no one talks about it anymore
@@TotemTomagreed. Th610 is low key one of Fostexs best headphones. It might not have a wide soundstage or have the dynamic v shape alot of people like but it is a midrange maestro that's for sure
This breaks my heart. I'm a big fan of the TH-X00 and spent a lot of time modding and tweaking it over the years. It remains my favorite wired closed back headphone (semi-closed). I rarely have the opportunity to use closed backs, and always hoped there'd be an open back version on par someday. Guess not yet.
I'm also getting by with my TH-X00 Mahogany and its self-destructing cable - I have yet to hear a headphone that can be had for so little that sounds as alive for rock and metal tracks. I have things that are objectively 'better', but nothing that packs as much punch. And sometimes punch is what you want.
I feel you,i am too. I have swapped a lot of pads for my th-x00 mahogany because i was never satisfied about the FR and the stock pads (confort). But one night,i have try the ZMF lambskin from my T50RP argon,and BINGO! Crazy bass,highs tame and mid not shadowed. Maybe a bit much mid bass but man.. like that it shadowed my Th900!
I just received my Fostex TH616. I was not worry because I can return it in 30 days. But I will keep it because I love his sound. I have tried with many kind of music and it is all very good. It is the best headphone I ever had. Maybe yours has a defect. Have a nice day. 😮
Holy cow that macro footage of wood finish… ugh. BTW I got a question about your 4128 measurements. I see you use the perf bounds based of 5128 DF. But to my knowledge 4128 has very different DF measurements especially around 7 to 10K. A significant peak around 8k specially. Just wondering if those perf bounds can be indicative for a FR measured by 4128 rig? Shouldn’t you use perf bounds based of 4128 DF as a perf index? As always great review BTW.
That would be something in the likes of Moondrop Venus. The loss of hearing in high frequencies makes that mid bass bloat even more obvious and detrimental to perceived SQ. This thing seems completely irredeemable.
i don't know why Fostex keeps staying on their headband design, changed my TH900mk's headband to a ZMF Crescent Strap which put comfort to another level :D also using ZMF Pads with custom attenuators which improved mids and tamed the sibilants just to the right amount for me.
A bit different question: anyone ever felt like headphones sound different when wearing glasses? I do wear them myself but never noticed any difference after taking them off.
For some yes, others no Really depends on how much the tuning requires having a perfect seal on the pads, because glasses will always break the seal to an extent
I swapped aliexpress 52mm bio drivers into a monoprice retro, with some foam damping in the cups and brainwavz XL hybrid pads. Then I bought a pair of used TH900s to compare. I was so amazed that my $160 headphones destroyed the $1800 Fostex 900!!! I can't believe how bad the TH900s are. EDIT: I also added a vent hole in the cups to get rid of back-pressure boominess.
When you're a brand famous for people modding them, it's not a shocker they're not great out of the box. Love Fostex but they need someone else in house to do tuning.
But these are too expensive to mod. The th900 can be bought for $600 to 700 which is acceptable for their subjective qualities, which is why people mod them.
To be fair, Modhouse Tungsten costs like $600 more, so not an apples to apples comparison. But yeah, I am pretty sad to see a biocellulose headphone fall on its face so hard since they're so uncommon.
Thatsbnot what he was saying. He didnt say that th616 needed to be as good as the tungsten, he said that the tungsten is worth its price. Its competitive at its mrsp.
It's really refreshing to see an unqualified negative review of a major consumer headphone. I'm not happy it's bad (we don't need more bad things in the world) but I'm happy that someone is calling it out as bad and not feeling a need to sugar coat everything for sponsor dollars. Kudos.
The Japanese headphone makers have always had some strange ideas about tuning, driven by some internal philosophy. But now that the Western headfi market has coalesced so strongly around Harman adjacent tuning they seem completely out of touch.
would you say this appears to be a coherently tuned headphone with such a dramatic scoop in the mids and peak in the highs? Theres certainly room for alternative or out there tunings, and they can be fun and meaningful in their own right, but I wouldn't say most of them coherently represent the music being played through them. My experience with the th-600 was fun, but I wouldn't say accurate with large frequency regions under-represented.
But no headphone is truly harman either. Not even Dan Clark stuff follows harman to a tee, heaving more upper bass. Saying that all Western headphones follow the same sound is simply false. They use different flavors of coherent tunings.
I dunno, most of the headphones I like are headphones that DMS absolutely dispises while the ones he appreciated or gave some good impressions on were the ones I gave a big blank "huh?" But on the other hand, I'm a Grado head so what do I know?
Just one of those companies that had a great product for a certain time, like Mackie, and they want a whole range hoping for customers to stick with a one brand only solution. Really stupid because some companies are great doing speakers, others, in doing mics, others are great at building amps. Some developers thought they should have it all in their lineup, what an idiot marketing idea from ten years ago. All they achieved was losing the market for the stuff they were known for a long time. Now they’re not taken serious by their customers nor the industry anymore. Do you see any Fostex equipment in a studio these days? Nope.. Do you see Mackie equipment in a studio or at live shows? Nope They just weren’t innovative anymore only milking their succeses for a while. Now what, let’s build a headphone 😂
Not saying this is a good headphone cuz I don't know but DMS hated the AP2000ti and that's probably my favorite headphone along with the Arya so subjective sound is different for everyone. People who don't like bright headphones shouldn't be reviewing bright headphones cuz they will always say it's too bright.
DMS can get down with bright headphones. The Empy II he just reviewed is a rather bright measuring headphone and it was reviewed rather positively, iirc. I think it's an important skill as a reviewer to be able to tell-your own taste aside-when something is the kind of bright people will still like vs. the kind of bright people won't. Personally, I trust DMS to be able to parse the difference.
Pretty much exactly this. This video is mostly subjective ranting, with a brief objective portion. I'm happy to see a FR graph at least, that's great, but I was hoping to get some more talk about driver capabilities. Here's the thing, a simple pad swap really can turn a bad headphone on its head and change the subjective experience entirely. If the only problem is comfort and bright treble then I'd rather hear more about what CAN'T be changed about the driver technicalities,. A pad swap or headband wrap are not intimidating changes. The reviewer's subjective experience is important, but this video goes on waaay too long about it and it comes off as snobby. The other objective thing I was happy to see in this review was the poor finish on the otherwise beautiful wood pattern. For a $900 headphone or whatever, I'd really want that to be perfect, yet there's rough edges and even splinters, WTAF. I'd call the TH 616 a dud just for that. At least the FR and comfort can be easily tweaked.
@MSB3000 you treating a review this personally is a misappropriation of what the purpose of a review is. You headfi addicts have the thinnest skin imaginable because you lock all consenting opinions away. It's unacceptable behaviour for anyone.
@dominikalbers6983 look at its midbass. It should be done at 200hz, but it has as much energy at 100hz as it does at 500hz. That means most harmonic undertones of string instruments and the human voice will be several times louder than the fundamental. That will make them sound muddy, which some people like because it's cozy and fuzzy sounding, but kills all harmonics.
yeah could be that it Just suit my preference. Most harman tuned IEM and over ears i had didn't stay long in my collection. I found them to sound a bit unnatural and some a bit shouty and some a bit boring because of the subbass focus, i like a bit more midbass and lower mids. But thats just me with my woodears.
Is Fostex trying to commit financial suicide? In a market which has never before been more competitive than in recent times, we have young Chinese companies doing impressive things for a fair price and with amazing fit and finish. Now Fostex brings that sad-looking, aesthetically-offensive, handmade-looking garbage with not even padding on the headband? This baffles the mind.
I initially heard $99 and was thinking "damn, this is harsh for a budget headphone". Once I heard the actual price (much later) in the video I quickly changed to "holy shit, what were they thinking even releasing this?"
I'd say this calls for a re-review of the previous model: the TH610.
was thinking the same thing. people always seem to bring up the 900 or 909 when talking about fostex's "good" DD headphones, but this one always struck me as the best. feels like no one talks about it anymore
Th-610 is cut from the same cloth of the Emu-Teak or the TH-X00
@@andrearenaudo9045 They share some characteristics, but they are still pretty different.
@@TotemTomagreed. Th610 is low key one of Fostexs best headphones. It might not have a wide soundstage or have the dynamic v shape alot of people like but it is a midrange maestro that's for sure
@@aznsensation44 Dynamic V shape and wide soundstage is the description of TH900
This breaks my heart. I'm a big fan of the TH-X00 and spent a lot of time modding and tweaking it over the years. It remains my favorite wired closed back headphone (semi-closed). I rarely have the opportunity to use closed backs, and always hoped there'd be an open back version on par someday. Guess not yet.
I'm also getting by with my TH-X00 Mahogany and its self-destructing cable - I have yet to hear a headphone that can be had for so little that sounds as alive for rock and metal tracks. I have things that are objectively 'better', but nothing that packs as much punch. And sometimes punch is what you want.
I feel you,i am too.
I have swapped a lot of pads for my th-x00 mahogany because i was never satisfied about the FR and the stock pads (confort).
But one night,i have try the ZMF lambskin from my T50RP argon,and BINGO!
Crazy bass,highs tame and mid not shadowed.
Maybe a bit much mid bass but man.. like that it shadowed my Th900!
I just received my Fostex TH616. I was not worry because I can return it in 30 days. But I will keep it because I love his sound. I have tried with many kind of music and it is all very good. It is the best headphone I ever had. Maybe yours has a defect. Have a nice day. 😮
When is the modhouse tungsten review coming out? Very excited for that one.
Imagine knowingly using the self-destructing Fostex hinge in 2023. Imagine being that company.
Holy cow that macro footage of wood finish… ugh. BTW I got a question about your 4128 measurements. I see you use the perf bounds based of 5128 DF. But to my knowledge 4128 has very different DF measurements especially around 7 to 10K. A significant peak around 8k specially. Just wondering if those perf bounds can be indicative for a FR measured by 4128 rig? Shouldn’t you use perf bounds based of 4128 DF as a perf index? As always great review BTW.
very well done!
This headphone will be perfect once I'm 60 years old and can't hear treble at all
That would be something in the likes of Moondrop Venus. The loss of hearing in high frequencies makes that mid bass bloat even more obvious and detrimental to perceived SQ. This thing seems completely irredeemable.
i don't know why Fostex keeps staying on their headband design, changed my TH900mk's headband to a ZMF Crescent Strap which put comfort to another level :D also using ZMF Pads with custom attenuators which improved mids and tamed the sibilants just to the right amount for me.
A bit different question: anyone ever felt like headphones sound different when wearing glasses? I do wear them myself but never noticed any difference after taking them off.
yes, but im putting it down to the pads fouling on the arms of our glasses and spoiling the pad fit/seal
For some yes, others no
Really depends on how much the tuning requires having a perfect seal on the pads, because glasses will always break the seal to an extent
DMS Thanks Much!
"Well, at least they're pretty," I thought. Then you showed the close-up of the wood.
I swapped aliexpress 52mm bio drivers into a monoprice retro, with some foam damping in the cups and brainwavz XL hybrid pads. Then I bought a pair of used TH900s to compare. I was so amazed that my $160 headphones destroyed the $1800 Fostex 900!!! I can't believe how bad the TH900s are.
EDIT: I also added a vent hole in the cups to get rid of back-pressure boominess.
When you're a brand famous for people modding them, it's not a shocker they're not great out of the box. Love Fostex but they need someone else in house to do tuning.
But these are too expensive to mod. The th900 can be bought for $600 to 700 which is acceptable for their subjective qualities, which is why people mod them.
To be fair, Modhouse Tungsten costs like $600 more, so not an apples to apples comparison. But yeah, I am pretty sad to see a biocellulose headphone fall on its face so hard since they're so uncommon.
Thatsbnot what he was saying. He didnt say that th616 needed to be as good as the tungsten, he said that the tungsten is worth its price. Its competitive at its mrsp.
It's really refreshing to see an unqualified negative review of a major consumer headphone. I'm not happy it's bad (we don't need more bad things in the world) but I'm happy that someone is calling it out as bad and not feeling a need to sugar coat everything for sponsor dollars. Kudos.
Unqualified? Is English a second language for you? Lmao
What's bio-dyna exactly and why does it matter?
These are around $1600 here. Judging by this review, that's $1580 too much.
yo, D! what's up with that Omega?
The Japanese headphone makers have always had some strange ideas about tuning, driven by some internal philosophy. But now that the Western headfi market has coalesced so strongly around Harman adjacent tuning they seem completely out of touch.
Lost touch by making coherently tuned products? The only one that has lost touch here is you. We dont want your esoteric headfi apologize
would you say this appears to be a coherently tuned headphone with such a dramatic scoop in the mids and peak in the highs? Theres certainly room for alternative or out there tunings, and they can be fun and meaningful in their own right, but I wouldn't say most of them coherently represent the music being played through them. My experience with the th-600 was fun, but I wouldn't say accurate with large frequency regions under-represented.
@@tednicholson9225 What?
But no headphone is truly harman either. Not even Dan Clark stuff follows harman to a tee, heaving more upper bass. Saying that all Western headphones follow the same sound is simply false. They use different flavors of coherent tunings.
Good thing that's not what I said. I specifically said Harman adjacent
Over -10dB subbass rolloff in even an open-back dynamic is just a meme in 2023.
This feels like such a lazy effort by fostex. Those yokes, that headband, that tuning. Stagnation for years.
Wow……. I’m disappointed to hear this about this headphone as I was interested in trying them out.😢
Maybe I should sell my Fostex shares 🤔 Greetings from Denmark
This product actually make sense since it's focus on JDM where 50% of ppl there is above 65 years old
I’m now even more excited to try this. I hardly ever agree with DMS.
Best biodyna you can get right now has to be Philphone
Would add Auteur and Atrium to that list.
I dunno, most of the headphones I like are headphones that DMS absolutely dispises while the ones he appreciated or gave some good impressions on were the ones I gave a big blank "huh?"
But on the other hand, I'm a Grado head so what do I know?
Exactly. Know your place.
Nearly a grand for that? A grand for those rough edges and a signature that is the equivalent of putting your ears on a hot sizzling grill?
Th 900 mk2 in white is the way
fostex could bloody do design new headband... they are pulling your leg with this pair, that kind of finnish on 900$ item.
Just one of those companies that had a great product for a certain time, like Mackie, and they want a whole range hoping for customers to stick with a one brand only solution. Really stupid because some companies are great doing speakers, others, in doing mics, others are great at building amps. Some developers thought they should have it all in their lineup, what an idiot marketing idea from ten years ago. All they achieved was losing the market for the stuff they were known for a long time. Now they’re not taken serious by their customers nor the industry anymore. Do you see any Fostex equipment in a studio these days? Nope.. Do you see Mackie equipment in a studio or at live shows? Nope They just weren’t innovative anymore only milking their succeses for a while.
Now what, let’s build a headphone 😂
So more or less just a heavy Grado
Almost. Grado have yet to master the mythical technology that is detachable vacuum cords.
Not saying this is a good headphone cuz I don't know but DMS hated the AP2000ti and that's probably my favorite headphone along with the Arya so subjective sound is different for everyone. People who don't like bright headphones shouldn't be reviewing bright headphones cuz they will always say it's too bright.
DMS can get down with bright headphones. The Empy II he just reviewed is a rather bright measuring headphone and it was reviewed rather positively, iirc.
I think it's an important skill as a reviewer to be able to tell-your own taste aside-when something is the kind of bright people will still like vs. the kind of bright people won't.
Personally, I trust DMS to be able to parse the difference.
I will agree with DMS about one thing the 900 Pro is a dogsh!t headphone, one of the worst headphones I've heard to date.
He loved the original clear despite its unnaturally boosted lower treble.
Pretty much exactly this. This video is mostly subjective ranting, with a brief objective portion. I'm happy to see a FR graph at least, that's great, but I was hoping to get some more talk about driver capabilities. Here's the thing, a simple pad swap really can turn a bad headphone on its head and change the subjective experience entirely. If the only problem is comfort and bright treble then I'd rather hear more about what CAN'T be changed about the driver technicalities,. A pad swap or headband wrap are not intimidating changes. The reviewer's subjective experience is important, but this video goes on waaay too long about it and it comes off as snobby.
The other objective thing I was happy to see in this review was the poor finish on the otherwise beautiful wood pattern. For a $900 headphone or whatever, I'd really want that to be perfect, yet there's rough edges and even splinters, WTAF. I'd call the TH 616 a dud just for that. At least the FR and comfort can be easily tweaked.
@MSB3000 you treating a review this personally is a misappropriation of what the purpose of a review is. You headfi addicts have the thinnest skin imaginable because you lock all consenting opinions away. It's unacceptable behaviour for anyone.
Thanks DMS. Sounds like maybe you don’t like it.
For biocellulose driver Headphones the Ibasso SR3 is comfortable, balanced in FR, has a really good build, great cable and it cost 30% less.
It is not at all balanced in its FR. It is for people that think old audezes are "balanced". Warm, bloated, and fuzzy.
😂 i found it pretty good, on the darker Side but still nothing jumped out to much! liked it more than the SR2
@dominikalbers6983 look at its midbass. It should be done at 200hz, but it has as much energy at 100hz as it does at 500hz. That means most harmonic undertones of string instruments and the human voice will be several times louder than the fundamental. That will make them sound muddy, which some people like because it's cozy and fuzzy sounding, but kills all harmonics.
yeah could be that it Just suit my preference. Most harman tuned IEM and over ears i had didn't stay long in my collection. I found them to sound a bit unnatural and some a bit shouty and some a bit boring because of the subbass focus, i like a bit more midbass and lower mids. But thats just me with my woodears.
Oooof, really laid it to them 😂
FOSTEX has forever been over rated as heck....this is not surprising
What a shame since they are limited edition.
It looks nice at least xD
Oooh that’s some spicy treble murder
I agree wholeheartedly on dt990 take.
Is Fostex trying to commit financial suicide? In a market which has never before been more competitive than in recent times, we have young Chinese companies doing impressive things for a fair price and with amazing fit and finish.
Now Fostex brings that sad-looking, aesthetically-offensive, handmade-looking garbage with not even padding on the headband? This baffles the mind.
Nuemann NDH 30 = $650
Edition XS = $499
HD 660S2 = $399-499
KZ HBB PR2 = $52
Shocking.
Why spending time on something you don’t really like?
Because this is review. Please delete your comment.
What a shame.
oof
philphone better
What a junk, Fostex should be ashamed.
close the back with tape and you will get an awesome headphone