Do Different Clarinet Barrel Shapes Change their Sound? Trying out Schwenk and Seggelke Barrels!
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- Опубликовано: 10 мар 2021
- I've always wondered how different clarinet barrel shapes can effect the sound the barrel produces given that the bore stays the same! Testing out Schwenk and Seggelke's beautiful barrels provided an excellent opportunity to find out!
Dr. Mark J. Cramer’s Dissertation on Barrel Acoustics: @/f/Cramer_uncg_0154D_11638.pdf
Merch Available Now! parkhousecreations.com
Equipment used:
Buffet Crampon Tosca Bb Clarinet
Puccini Tosca PlayNick Mouthpiece
Silverstein Pink Gold Hexa Ligature
Vandoren V12 Strength 3.0 Reed
Audio Equipment:
MixPre-3
Line Audio CM4 Stereo Pair
(In an effort to keep the sound as accurate as possible, no EQ or other audio processing tools are added to clips of me playing.)
Camera:
Fujifilm XT-3
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For business or lesson inquiries contact: ParkHouseCreations@gmail.com 
Видеоклипы
Tosca Barrel 5:14
S&S Standard 2 Ring 5:39
S&S 1 Ring 6:04
S&S Fatboy 2 Ring Metal 6:29
S&S Fatboy Wooden Rings 6:53
Nice video on these .. like the Tosca Barrel .. wondering if different Reeds, Ligatures may also change some dynamics on these different Barrels
I hear a slight difference in all of them but there seems to be more warmth and focus to the sound of the third and fourth barrels.
i heard some warmth in the 1st one too
I love Mr. Cramer. Nicest person ever!
Thank you for another interesting video. The S&S barrels seem to make the intonation of the throat tones worse (lower). So my favourite is the standard Tosca barrel.
Thank you for watching! Your assessment is fair! In hindsight, I needed to change my throat-tone resonance fingerings for these barrels. I think the throat tones would have been alright had I been more careful.
Really nice you did a review of those barrels... My Bb clarinet is a SS model 1000 and came with two 65 barrels (one with the U bore and the other with the T bore, both with one metal ring). I have to agree with Mr. Seggelke description that U bore has a more focus tone. The T sounds better on my A clarinet (which is a R13 prestige) because add more high harmonics and “life” to my tone.
Hope you are able to try some SS instrument soon. They are fantastic!
About the options you have, I think the two wooden rings sound better for me.
Oh that’s really interesting! I am tempted to try the T bore at some point in the future. And ya, I really hope I can try some S&S instruments soon as well! Thank you for the comment!
Hello man, can you please make review of ZMC barrels. They are awesome! @@ParkHouseCreations
Hi there. I have a 1970s Selmer. Do you recommend any of these. Not sure what to go after. The original wooden barrel cracked, so I'm stuck on plastic. My price range I look is between 50-99$
While watching this video, I realized that my case has a broken strip that can move a little. :(
I was clumsy this morning and managed to drop my case on the way to leave my house. I almost had a mini anxiety attack. I checked for damage, but didn’t see any. I think some part of me sensed that something broke. The good thing is that it is just an inexpensive Jupiter case.
I like the S&S 1 sound.
I liked the S&S standard 2 ring. Nice even and clear tone without being too bright. Also what piece did you play? It sounds so familiar but can't think what it is
Thanks for the comment! Sorry it took me some time to get back to you, the piece was technically "Fantasia sulla Traviata" by Donato Lovreglio. But the part I played was essentially just one of the main melodies from Traviata itself!
By my reckoning slight changes to embouchure, position of lip on mouthpiece and how you shape the inside of your mouth are going to affect the sound more than a barrel when they are all of the same length and internal diameter. I really cant hear much difference and wonder if it might be psychological. The tosca was possibly my favourite. Would be fun to see what difference a plastic barrel would make.
In general I agree with you that voicing, embouchure pressure, air speed, etc. are going to make a much bigger difference to sound than a barrel ever will. However, when I recorded this video I recorded all barrels immediately back to back over a short period of time trying very hard to keep everything else “stable.” That being said, the acoustical differences were still very subtle. When I had the barrels, I did some blind tests with some people in person and I can promise the perceived differences aren’t psychological. (It was blind so they couldn’t see which barrel I was playing at any given moment.) However, I will say that many of the differences were so slight that I have my doubts about whether they would make any appreciable difference to how the average audience member would perceive your sound. Anyway, thank you for watching and commenting, I really appreciate it! I think a plastic barrel would make a very appreciable difference to the sound!
Interesting video! Through my AirPods Pro (not great, but....) I liked the one ring and fatboy wooden ringed barrels. The fatboys seemed to have better intonation in the throat tones and were more focused. Most of the other barrels seemed to make your throat G noticeably flat. I did like those two barrels though- the others sounded a littlle ‘thick’ or ‘thuddy’ to me. But... I tend towards a leaner sound myself, and I don’t play a setup anything like yours. Great video- will you do a follow up and let us know if you plan to keep any? Just curious. Thanks for the great video!
Hey JK, thanks for the kind words! I agree with your assessments! Looking back it also looks like I kept my normal resonance fingering for throat G 🤦♂️, so that probably didn't help. I will definitely update when I've decided on what to hold on too!
I liked the SandS standard 2 ring and Fat Boy wooden ring best. I guess I would say I like the latter best overall, but I don't here any really dramatic differences with any of them.
Hi. Finally you testing Seggelke, Gleighweit, Moba... Which is your favorite actually... Thanks!
Hey Pac Mar, that's a great question! I know it's a cliche answer but I really have liked all of the barrels I have tried for different reasons! It's too difficult to pick just one as they all have unique characteristics that make them appealing and I think my choice would depend on the mouthpiece I am playing on at the time! However, that being said, I do not play on any of them regularly (and it's been a long time since I've tried any Backun barrels). I typically play on a set of custom barrels that were made for my specific instruments by a good friend. Unfortunately, that person doesn't sell them, but the barrels are very good!
I liked the all wood barrel. How long did you have to wait for the barrels?
It took about 2 weeks to receive the barrels in the U.S. after my first email contacting S&S.
I play a Behn svelte barrel and I swear it feels more resonant than his standard even though they have the same bore.
Also I prefer the one ring barrel. Nice balanced sound to me.
After this experiment, I definitely believe that it feels more resonant! Thanks for watching and letting me know which barrel you preferred!
My unsophisticated ear dug the two ring fatboy - but you also seemed more into playing while you were using that barrel. Did the different barrels change any physical perception as you played, like having more or less felt resonance through out the instrument?
One of the most impressive things about these barrels, was that despite the ring differences, the “feel” was pretty close across the board. I imagine S&S takes their bore quality control pretty seriously. They all definitely felt like they were the same bore, just with small differences in the harmonic output due to the rings. That being said, it’s been a while since I’ve tried them and there were probably very small changes in resistance from barrel to barrel, but honestly I can’t remember what they were, just that I was surprised by how close they all felt.
Thanks for the video. A question related to the vast variety of barrel sizes showed at one moment: does the shorter barrel (shorter than 65mm) change the pitch of an instrument, and if does, by how much?
Good question! The answer to it is absolutely; going from a barrel that is 65mm, to one that is 64mm, will definitely change the pitch. There are different factors that effect barrel intonation, but you could probably expect the pitch to rise 5-10 cents (potentially more) depending on the note from a barrel becoming 1mm shorter.
Thank you very much. In the video I saw very short barrels, like 40mm tall (when compared to full sized 65mm barrel next to them). I’m not sure if short barrels are made for Bb clarinet, or perhaps C or Eb clarinets .. but, in theory, 10-15 mm shorter barrel could sufficiently raise the pitch and ‘change’ the Bb clarinet into a B clarinet? (just theorising) What are your thoughts on this?
@@zvonimirtosic6171 Ya, you're definitely right, the very short barrels are made for clarinets in other keys! However, for a clarinet to be pitched to a different key the ratio between the tone holes must be scaled down to fit a smaller body. Just adding a shorter barrel, while making the pitch higher overall, potentially even shifting Bb to B, will result in the overall scale of the instrument being very out of tune. You can test this out by pulling all the joints out on your Bb clarinet about as far as they can go (without the instrument being at risk of falling apart), to mimic an "A" clarinet. You might be able to play C and have it sound as an A, but the rest of the scale will be very out of tune!
@@ParkHouseCreations german Clarinets sometimes had rather shortish barrels, I have a Mollenhauer with two barrels both under 4 cm. The upper joint is longer accordingly, it plays between 438 and 442 hz. High pitch Bb clarinets are about 64 cm, A clarinets about 70, C clarinets about 60 cm. So you would need a 35 mm barrel to bring a Bb up to B, but only the throat notes, not the long ones.
I could see buying a replacement for a broken barrel or needing a different length barrel, but I don’t hear much of a difference to justify spending the money. To each their own.
im just starting out and i have a question, maybe its dumb but please help me. Can i mix wood and abs parts of a clarinet? Like for example i have a plastic clarinet, can i put a wooden barrel on it???
You can definitely put a wooden barrel on a plastic clarinet as long as the barrel fits the tenon. However, depending on the plastic clarinet you may have trouble finding a barrel that meshes well with the bore dimensions, but that depends entirely on the plastic instrument in question. If you are looking to achieve the biggest difference in your sound on a plastic clarinet I would really recommend dialing in your mouthpiece and reed combination first!
Seems like all of them adds some resistance to the instrument. For me when trying out clarinets in 2005 I found that Tosca had too much resistance for my taste. My choice was a free blowing Festival and then later I added a Zinner african blackwood barrel for even more ring to the tone. My second choice at that time was a Selmer Saint Luis now discontinued I believe.
I much more prefer to add more resistance in my mouthpiece/reed combination rather than in the instrument.
That’s fair! I mostly do the opposite, opting to reduce my resistance via the mouthpiece with a more free blowing reed/mouthpiece combination.
Edit: I’ve always wanted to try the Saint Louis! Hopefully I get a chance sometime!
Maybe I need to try more clarinets but for me a more freeblowing clarinet(to of course a certain point) gives you more flexibility to add or reduce resistance via mouthpiece/reed combination as it's much more cheaper to alter mouthpiece and reeds rather than the instrument. But I think if I was going to buy a new clarinet today I would go for something with more resistance.
My setup for a long time is Buffet Festival with Zinner african blackwood barell,a Charles Bay Mo-L brown mouthpiece with Vandoren V-12's # 3.5+ and a Charles Bay rhodium ligature.
Where are all these instrument building workshops? I live here in Germany so I can assure you your information is not quite right. 🇩🇪 Best wishes
I believe all of the names I listed on the screen are German based workshops, with the exception of Kronthaler clarinets; they are based in Luxembourg. In addition to the ones on the screen, there are Dietz clarinets, Martin Foag clarinets, Harald Hüyng clarinets, Richard Müller clarinets (not sure if these are still being produced,) and perhaps Uebel clarinets; though I think they would be considered more than a small manufacturer at this point. Additionally, there are also Gerold Clarinets based in Austria. If I made it seem like the country had a clarinet workshop on every street I apologize, but as a whole there are many times more workshops in Germany than there are in the U.S. I’m sure there are others I don’t know about as well! Thanks for watching, sorry for the confusion!
5:29 Tosca
5:54 Standard 2 rings
6:19 One ring
6:43 2 ring metal
7:08 Fat Boy
It is pronounced Shveank ouwnd Z’ggalkah, greetings from Germany!
Ya, I realized my mistake later 😥 🤦♂️. Greetings though, thank you for watching!
An actual, clickable link to Dr Cramers dissertation would have been really useful.
Occasionally, RUclips links get broken depending on the web browser used to save them. Feel free to try this: core.ac.uk/download/pdf/345081265.pdf
@@ParkHouseCreations Yep! That did the trick. Thank you!
Fat boy two wooden ring had slightly more delicate sound to the tone. It's a very slight color change.
Delicate is a good word choice!
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
After watching this video and learned some about S&S I've decided to buy a barrel from them! What do you think the quality of their barrel is compared to other brands?
I think the quality of the S&S barrels was excellent. Just as high a level of quality as any of the other top notch after-market barrels I’ve tried and it was also more fairly priced than many of them!
@@ParkHouseCreations Thank you so much for replying! I ended up to acquire a fat boy U bore with a carbon coil on top and a metal ring on bottom, which S&S described as having a more “German” sound
@@raybei9072 Oh, that's great! I hope you like it!
HI there, good work buddy, I've been playing S+S barrels for more than a decade and pretty much agree with all you say. I WOULD suggest learning some basic German pronunciation so you can say their name correctly, it's not hard (I know it's impossible to say EVERYTHING in all other languages correctly, but you say Neidich correctly so I'm sure you can manage Schwenk und Seggelke).
The fat boys are winners, I prefer the two rings fatboy barrel.
Thanks Junnan!
Woodglut is nice for that.
fat boy wooden rings ist for me the sound i dream...
fat boy 2 metal rings i like
Too bad you actually dont test the exterior of the barrel since those are different barrels (interior dimensionwise) for that you would need actually all barrels to be exact copies. All in all i can guarantee you that as long as the interiors of barrels are alike they are the same (dimensions+surface polished grit - the smoother = easy blowing, rougher = more resistance) how do i know ? i made an experiment and made 5 barrels all different kinds of wood but same tools, same technique and i can summarize it with following
1) as long as wood isn't sponge (light wood very porous) material is good to go
2) rings on a barrel make the same difference as the length of your hair - its only for looks
3) length is for pitch (duh) but for those who dont know shorter = sharper, longer=flatter
4) bore radius - bigger=brighter, sharper, smaller- darker,lower(also a bit more resistance)
PS
if you want to gift somebody a barrel its ok treat it like earrings or necklace its cool accesory and adds exotic touch but if you think that a 200 bucks barrel will turn you into maestro you better spend it on lessons and practice (or learn to adjust reeds, you cant have a bad reed if you know how to work them)
PS2
if you feel different search for some research on clarinet materials, dimensions, general physics of clarinet, its not a violin or guitar the bore is not the source of sound, the air column is
“Too bad you don’t test the exterior of the barrels since those barrels are different. (Interior dimension-wise)” In general I agree with many of your statements. I am just a little confused by that initial one? The internal bore on these barrels was identical (ignoring of course the stock Tosca barrel). Your request to test the external of the barrels is what the video was about. Sorry, I’m just confused, did I misunderstand your statement?
@@ParkHouseCreations I meant that the interiors of those barrels may vary in shape minimally since you had no way of measurng them also where it comes to wood you cant have 2 identical pieces so a nice experiment would be for example to test 3 same model fatboys or 2 of each etc. dont get me wrong all in all i liked your video and its great that someone does things like this to maybe save someone some cash on disappointment so great job
Ah I gotcha! Ya, at some point I need to buy a bore gauge for that very purpose. It would be nice to be able to determine the accuracy between barrels that are supposedly identical. Thanks for the comment, don’t worry I didn’t take it the wrong way. Thanks for watching and the kind words!
The only thing that can alter how a instrument sounds is inside of them, things that affect the air column are going to make a difference, external changes don't do nothing
There was no significant difference between these barrels! Everything else was your own subjective interpretation.
I understand your position, any perceived differences are certainly very small! Thanks for watching and commenting!
Your open G is flat and taking off the one finger you leave on would not help it enough.