it's always been somewhat terrible - but especially since late 2022 when Tesla went full idiot mode and deleted all useful sensors, and decided that oinly using fallible cameras were the way forward...
The Tesla AP is just cruise control and a dumb lane keeper. Tesla has no interest in developing the free autopilot. If someone wants self-driving, buy the expensive FSD (by Tesla). That's the situation. But even so, the lane keeper can be used quite well on the highway. Other than that, it's not really good.
@lajosbarath1034 it's incredibly useful, I've driven tens thousands of km on autopilot ( not exaggerating ) using a steering wheel weight. Helps enormously on long trips
Thanks Richard. As a Tesla owner since 2017 (Model S) I’ve lived through the evolution of the Tesla AP since they separated from MobileEye. It progressed from frankly terrifying to being a solid assistant, reaching the point where I tell people I would not want to drive a car without it. However, you’ve opened my eyes to other - perhaps better - options outside of Tesla. One more reason why my next car is unlikely to be a Tesla.
@@DeadlyDizzle-yn1vz I've had my Tesla for just over a year now, and it's primarily the reasons in the video that are driving me away. I always thought Autopilot was the cream of the crop when it came to driving assistance systems. Boy, was I wrong! Phantom braking, ignoring speed signs, swerving for no reason at all, pretty terrible if the weather isn't clear (rain, snow, etc.). When you have autopilot enabled, it's like you're driving on tracks, and any deviation from that track completely disables the steering assist. The constant bings and bongs are really annoying too. And there's NO WAY TO DISABLE THEM, or at least turn them down. A real pain for those with sleeping kids or animals on long journeys. I almost never use mine unless I have no passengers, it's a clear day on a motorway/dual carriageway, with little/no traffic. In stop-start traffic, it's terrible. As soon as the car in front moves from a standstill, my Tesla floors it and makes me feel like I'm going to rear-end them, only for it to then slam on once it realises the car in front isn't an F1 driver. It's quite nauseating, really. I've had a handful of occasions where it actually would've rear-ended them, had I not intervened. Not very confidence inspiring, especially for any passengers.
Completely agree with the slow pick up when changing lanes on the motorway. I think it is potentially dangerous so normally override if something is behind.
While it may not be the fastest, it is the method recommended by advanced drivers such as emergency vehicle drivers and is known as box overtaking. For example ruclips.net/video/XE4ivv_W6UM/видео.html. Although I agree the Tesla is particularly slow at picking up after pulling out, I think the VW solution here is too quick. Safest is probably somewhere in the middle.
That was a very interesting demonstration. Thank you. I was a big Tesla fan when I bought my new 2021 TM3LR here in Canada. After driving it 54,000 kms and seeing how Tesla development was heading in the wrong direction, in my opinion, I sold it last month. Four years ago I really only considered Tesla and Polestar as options for me, but now there are many more better options.
I agree as a Model X 2023 owner her in Norway.I have to say I realy like driving the car but autosteer / enhanced autopilot is just the worst I have driven........So frustrating.....
2:10 - Found a flaw with your use of Autopilot. I understand the point (I presume you’re going to make) that speed change should be automatic. However, if you hold the right stalk down, Autopilot will automatically adjust to the “recognised” speed limit - avoiding your method of constantly disengaging and reengaging Autopilot. Personally, I love Autopilot, it’s far in advance of the lane keep assist on the I-PACE I had previously. Having watched the rest of your vid, the I.D.3 is very good. I’m impressed by how much interaction you can have with the vehicle, coaxing it through bends or along roads (avoiding vehicles/pot holes) without the Autopilot system dropping out. Great vid, Richard, thanks!!
@@GreenTorque I’d guess whatever the equivalent operation to engage Autopilot on the M3 is - a variation on that. I haven’t personally taken the opportunity to drive a stalkless Tesla as yet. Maybe Richard can give it a try for us.
I recently hired a Mk8 Golf with the same system as the ID3. Drove from Yorkshire to London and back with the adaptive cruise control on. Really excelled in start stop traffic on the M25, no need to touch the pedals.
@@jeanbaptistelabelle Read the other comments about the fantom braking and the crazy acceleation in a jam then crazy braking. There are quite a few people complaing about these things here.
@ContraVsGigi ah yeah, it could be sometimes smoother in low traffic. Phantom braking is the pendant of safety. If a truck cross the line, it does break. Other cars have 2 separate systems working independently: the cruise control and the line keeping so if a car just move on you, they will do nothing. You do not have a phantom braking...but just a simple collision. You may prefer the unsafe approach.
Totally agree with all the Tesla issues and the VW system looks way way better. On the Tesla you don’t need to keep cancelling and restarting the autopilot when the speed doesn’t increase…you can just touch the speed icon on the screen. Great video 🙂👍
You don't have to cancel AP and re-engage it to change the speed limit in the Tesla. Clicking on the red speed limit sign will change the AP speed limit to the same value. You can also use the right scroll wheel on the drive wheel (if you do "fast" scrolls, it changes the speed by increment of 5kmph/mph so you need two scrolls to adjust from 40 to 50, for example). Someone mentioned also just pushing the right stalk to the bottom for a few seconds: I didn't know about that and will try it. As for taking over, using the blinker light isn't enough in Europe, the law forces Tesla to ask you to put your blinker THEN slightly push the steering wheel in the direction you're blinking. By the car will overtake and go back to the normal lane without any problem.
@@Hexalyse New cars (late 2023 onwards with mandatory ISA) have disabling ISA when driver touches the speed sign icon. It’s not setting the speed to TACC
In Europe, traffic rules vary slightly by country. For example, I was driving on a highway with a speed limit of 110 km/h. In that country, speed limits usually apply only until the next intersection, and they don’t post signs to indicate when the limit ends or if a new limit begins, you’re just expected to know that it applies until the next intersection. However, Tesla’s Autopilot doesn’t account for this and won’t let you exceed the posted speed limit by more than 10 km/h. As a result, you can end up stuck driving at 90 km/h on a section of road where the actual maximum speed might now be 110 km/h. Because of the last speed limit sign which Tesla recorded.
@@denisaskirilovas4012 Yeah Tesla really needs to work on specificity of European countries. I live in France, and sometimes the AP is completely lost about the actual speed limit of a road, and I have to override it.
I 100% agree with your tesla observations. I have a 2023 M3 with only basic autopilot and it doesn't fill me confidence to go out and spend thousands more on teslas enhanced or full self driving packages. I only use it as a basic motorway cruise control tool
totally agree with this, I can't imagine forking out £3500 on enhanced with how standard performs. I'm sure its a similar situation with people having not bought FSD in the USA
@pauljk5901 i did, did you ??? At 21:20, it did not take long: if he did not steering, the car would have been totaled. Then at 24:20 it did not take the turn, then at 25 then... well, if I need to drive, I drive but I fail to see the interest though...
I have to admit that I have had a little auto-pilot envy when watching various reviews on here but it was great to get a fresh perspective on that. I currently have a 2018 Audi S5 with similar functionality to the ID3 and use it a lot. I too am really impressed with how quickly it responds to changing limits and accelerates me into gaps on the motorway. The only downsides that I have noticed are the odd phantom limit where it just comes up with a limit out of nowhere and a tendency to pick up limits on side roads, probably due to signage rather than a fault per se. I know that a lot of content creators and related comments are anti this type of tech but when it works properly, it is not at all intrusive and actually has your back. I am not sure that I could live with the constant Tesla bonging though. Nice job .
Very impressive. We were brainwashed to think that Tesla were the kings of auto pilot and VW software was lagging well behind. Richard rightly identified the problems we have in the Uk with constantly varying speed limits. The real strength of the ID.3 is that it does not just rely on its camera but the SatNav obviously has embedded maps that knows where the speed limits change and therefore can prepare the car. This is what driver assistance systems should be about.
I recently purchased a 2021 Tesla model 3 performance and completely agree regarding autopilot. I had a Mercedes with lane keeping assist and adaptive cruise and it was actually significantly better to use. On my daily commute in a 50mph limit there is a 20 sign to a road off the right of the road and autopilot picks up the sign and rams the brakes on 😂
Agree with your criticism having to fight with a Tesla on steering and then just cuts off. Regarding the adaptive cruise element, it’s worth mentioning the removal of radar on Teslas, although the Tesla camera system has improved of late. We have M3 and eGolf, and the VW radar adaptive cruise is superior.
@@DanielHarrisCodes No, they didn't. They added Radar only in S and Y, but it's not used for the driving, It's just for back testing and creating voxel clouds to support the vision only.
Do people really use autopilot or equivalent on single carriage roads with faded markings? I drive a Tesla but I'm not a fanboy. My motives for buying one are the charging network, efficiency (4+ miles per kwh for most of the year) and cargo and passenger space (Model Y). I sometimes use autopilot as cruise control on motorways and dual carriageways but otherwise drive the car myself. Sometimes I think we are all becoming obsessed with technology for it's own sake.
Impressed by the id3 ... I have done 73000km since July 2022 in my Model Y and agree with your conclusions, thankfully I'm in France and can use autopilot on motorways here without having the problems the id3 would fix.
I’ve just changed from a Model 3 with standard autopilot to a VW ID7. I loved the Tesla but was always a bit wary of the autopilot. All the reasons that RS gives here, plus phantom braking. I am surprised to prefer the ID software and driver assistance. Very smooth, predictive and reliable. A minor gripe that the lane change assist only works on motorways (not dual carriageways) but that is not the end of the world and I guess is understandable.
It is refreshing to read how VW fixed their software, as when the ID was launched, it was a total mess. Can it do the update over the air? That was I think another thing they haven't had at ID3 launch date.
@@ContraVsGigi The software was always terrible on the early IDs, mainly due to lag and bad UX design. However the travel assist has always been good since the start. There have been some OTAs in recent times, but mainly a few bugfixes, and plenty of stories of cars being bricked in the process of the OTA update 🙈
As a Tesla owner, I agree. For the overall price for the car this best value, but as a driver it does irks me sometimes. I have similar issues with the auto wipers and the Tesla vision parking. It's great the car understands the surroundings, but as a driver those gray blobs doesn't help me park the car as it's worse than my vision.
Thanks for the video, I really hope Tesla takes notes. I’m not getting much benefits out of my Enhanced Autopilot for the same reasons. AutoPark also doesn’t always find parking spaces, and worst of all, Summon needs an internet connection, in the UK where most underground car parks don’t have a decent signal. I’ve pretty much given up on it now other than keeping a straight line. Tesla really needs to improve this system for what's worth..
M3 with EAP; I find Autopark pretty good providing there are some lines for the car to "see" it even works most of the time with the typical UK worn out markings. I've only used Summon to get the car out of tight car park spaces to get my wife in as she is a wheelchair user, it works OK for this, although not tried it in an underground car park.
100% agree. I switched from a Cupra Born to Model 3 Performance and the adaptive cruise control and the assistance systems in general are more reliabel and seem more solid.
Basic/Enhanced Autopilot does not seem to get much attention from Tesla at the moment. FSD is where all the effort is going. My hope for the future is that Autopilot becomes a "free" version of FSD, meaning that the lane keep, speed control and obstacle avoidance becomes smarter, but without the full self driving experience, of course. It makes sense for Tesla to use a unified software approach, as FSD can be learn/improve also when just using Autopilot. They can still limit it from becoming so good that it cannibalises FSD subscriptions
VW´s ACC is amazing, I have a miserable daily commute with constant traffic jams and the car just drives itself without any issues, It´s a level of comfort i had never expected. For my daily usage it´s just the perfect car.
Gotta say, I am very impressed with Travel Assist in my new Škoda. I never thought to compare it with Tesla Autopilot, I just thought the Tesla would be better. This is very interesting and I am pleased (given I did consider a model Y) that I made the right choice.
@@matthewtyler-jones8317 a lot of non-Tesla owners think Tesla AP is the best for some reason. Really hard to convince them otherwise even though they dont own a Tesla 😅
@@tafl-9198 Unfortunately, I had the same preconception. I thought Tesla's AP was the best of the best, until I actually owned and drove one for a year. FSD gives me hope, but I'm not holding out.
I think Tesla just went into a dead end with their vision only appraoch. Elmo, at the hight of the AI hype just thought that's the future and has ignored reality. From what's been marketed as the best driver's assist, they have now pretty much the worst.
I remember my old 2020 m3 used to change up and down speed limits when in autopilot, but it would pin you to your seat when accelerating. It was a right pain, especially if you were in the slow or middle lane and about to be overtaken as it floored it. My id4 also floors it’s when changing up, but without having anywhere near the same grunt as a Tesla.
We have 2 Teslas. Second Model 3 was used and came with EAP. The dealer didn't know it had it so it added nothing to the value. I wouldn't pay more than $500 for it. It's honestly all it's worth
I have an ID4 and I love the dynamic regen braking it has. Normally it has barely any regen but once I come up to a slower moving car, a corner, a suggested change in direction etc, the anticipates the slowdown and enabled auto regen braking for me. I absolutely hate that Tesla's has massive regen and no settings for it. Lift off the accelerator and the car starts braking. Some people love that and drive with one pedal. I really don't like it. The ID cars also have the B mode, mostly for autobraking on downward slopes but I hardly use it. I just leave my ID4 in Drive and the car does auto braking for whenever it's needed. And if I lift off the pedal and there is no need for braking, the car just floats along like a normal car. The actual manual braking did take some getting used to.. have to push harder vs in my old Passat. But once you get the hang of the actual pedal, it's all fine. And with the dynamic auto brake, I don't have to do much braking at all. The ID cars also have drum brakes and people laugh when they hear that. I love that it barely has any wear and you don't have to do the whole anti-corrosion song and dance Teslas need. Search for "model 3 brake corrosion" and you'll see what mechanics have to do to every Tesla to keep brakes in good working order.
Bro you just took the words out of my mouth, had a Tesla model y, and now the ID3. D mode on id3 is just amazing much more comfortable than the Tesla dumb full Regen mode only. When on city or driving more aggressive on b roads i use B mode. The ACC is also so much better on ID3 , don't have travel assist so I can compare the autopilot it self, but in Tesla it was pretty shitty other than pure highway with low traffic
It's actually sad because I prefer Tesla overall, but I really love the way Vw manages the Regen/throttle that I think I won't buy Tesla next but a vw group ev
@@hdiassss Yeah I do have travel assist and in heavy traffic it's really a dream feature. I hate that most VW software is so slow but clearly the actual car tech is so much better. I've been driving many VAGs in the past (Polo, Golf, Passat etc) and I've seen every feature come up and grow, way before anything Elon ever touched.. VW may suck in infotainment but they are true car kings. Also the suspension.. man, Tesla is rough. I love the dynamic chassis control on mine. Even more control.
@@mmaster23 Yeah i think VW just loses to tesla in terms of infotainment and Engine Power, also teslas have more space usually. Other than that i think VW has done it better.
Totally agree, the lack of proper adaptive/predictive cruise control is what I hate about the Tesla implementation of cruise control, we know the info is there yet it ignores it. I trust my partners SEAT Leon with predicative cruise control (PACC) more than my Tesla's autopilot (EAP).
Thanks for the video Richard, I have an ID 3 2021 plate. It’s a great car. The only issue I have it does show the speed limit at times. Yesterday my chargers did not open, I took it down to VW Watford. They did open it for me, my next appointment I could only get is 23rd December, it’s crazy. I’ve just got it taped with masking tape as advised. The issue is the actuator.
If your charge port is to do with the locking pin inside the socket (shine torch in on the left), I find this quite common on ID’s and a squirt of WD40 sorts the sliding lock pin
Excellent comparison and well produced video. Agree 100%. These are both L2 systems, but Tesla hype it up beyond truth. A working L4 AFSD still seems 25-30 years away and impossible without radar/lidar, cameras only cannot cope. Regulators will need to catch up. Prepare for incoming if you criticise Tesla the fan boy faithful are hyper sensitive to anybody who does nose ooze praise for AP or FSD (myth). Travel assist has its eccentricities too, but more intelligent and natural L2 system than TAP. A fair minded comparison. Travel Assist is nippier on speed, sometimes approaches round about or stopped cars a little faster than I'd be comfortable with.
Nice to see. D drive on the motorway , cruise control on and when approaching an exit , put into B drive and get on the slip road hit the brake to turn of cruise control and the car soaks up the speed and charges the battery whilst slowing down... Brilliant. I just wish there was a way of adaptive cruise control to plus 10kph of the speed limit. All the locals do 20kph or more so whenever i have adaptive cruise control its always slowing the traffic.
Absolute respect for your honesty Richard for telling this as it is despite the fact that a large part of your channel and business is based on Teslas. Rather than following the fashion of just about every other EV channel and deriding VW EV’s you tell it as it is. The fact is that VW were one the few ICE manufacturers to commit at an early stage to cars that are EV from scratch. These other people bang on about ‘scratchy plastic’ and ‘laggy software’ when in truth the ID3 is a brilliant, practical and economical car. I’m onto my second and will happily get another when the time comes to change. And, the adaptive cruise is one of my favourite things about the car. It works superbly and makes driving a breeze.
2022 M3 performance - bought 2nd hand with enhanced autopilot and I rarely use it. Used it a couple of days ago and it decided to do an emergency brake from 70 to 50mph, and that was either because we were overtaking a truck and it thought we were going to hit it (no indication of that to me) or because we were passing under a 50mph road and it got confused. I usually just stick to cruise control as it feels a lot less dangerous, and even with that I don't trust it to slow down at junctions.....
Sounds like your experience is the same as mine. Used M3 Dual Motor which came with EAP. Passing HGVs is really hit and miss, the slightest movement in the lane by the HGV and the car brakes.
When I had my model S from you five yrs ago now it had AP1 and I don’t recall it being that slow to accelerate but only used it on the A3 to Surrey a few times. The vw did seem a lot more reactive in your test. Good snd interesting comparison.
We have two IDs and I really like the system , it's great to keep you within the speed limits and to slow down for roundabouts and junctions. The one little flaw with it here in Ireland is the VW mapping , it can pick up old speed limits that are no longer in effect. I taught at first it was caused by the councils and the roads authorities not updating their new speed limits but they assured me it was down to VW and they update the new limits immediately . Overall it's a great system and seems to be improving with each SW upgrade.
I've had my M3 for nearly 3 years now. I frequently travel on highways into the city. When I hit the normal peak hour traffic, what I find very frustrating with the auto pilot is that it "usually" brakes pretty well for cars stopped or slowing down up ahead, though it sometimes will panic and slam on the brakes a little too late. But what is most annoying is when the traffic up ahead starts moving (from standstill), as auto pilot is still set to highway speeds it apparently believes it has to use all the power at its disposal to immediately get back up to highway speeds from standstill, only to then, of course, notice the car just ahead and slam on brakes again. The whiplash effect makes it pointless to use. If I set it to "chill" mode, it does a little better, but the auto pilot stack really needs a lot of work. Apparently it gets updated with FSD, but for those of us outside of the US who can't get FSD, we are stuck with this really old software stack that just isn't very good. And certainly not for software that is as old (i.e. mature) as it is now
I have model x and Hyundai Kona. Hyundai Kona brakes gently and picks up speed gently if it is very slow traffic. Tesla will accelerate very hard, i try to set cruse at 10 or 15 but still it will not accelerate smoothly. Tesla can easily add an option of how a car should accelerate in a traffic. I usually cancel the auto pilot when i am stuck in traffic because of harsh acceleration
@@Tresla Yeah me too, I was excited to use Tesla AutoPilot before purchasing, after my purchase the biggest letdown was AP in traffic. After 5 series G30 LCI with autopilot it is very much downgrade.
A very interesting comparison video. I have a Skoda Enyaq so using the same system as the ID3 and I have also been impressed by it. Subtle differences to our Ioniq, but generally a more clever system than the Ioniq. One thing you don't mention but which is interesting is the behaviour when there is no steering input for some time. Where the Hyundai dumps you out of steering assist, the Skoda is far safer and interactive. I assume the ID3 is the same: after the visual and audible warnings it taps the brakes a few times to 'jolt you awake' before it then starts to slow the car down. I didn't know it did this and it took a moment to realise what it was doing the first few times I let the car go beyond the red warnings... It is fascinating to see how this technology is iterating. I'm still firmly in the "I want to be in control" camp but I very much appreciate the "assist" nature of the VAG systems over others I have experienced. The Hyundai is noticeably better than our previous MG and the VAG Enyaq another step forward.
As a Tesla fan and owner, i fully agree you. The AP runs on software from 2021? Very frustrating especially when following the FSD Supervised in the US
Completely agree the Tesla is too slow to accelerate after a lane-change with Autopilot - usually need to help it with a little right-foot. In contrast when queue-crawling it will accelerate too quickly and then has to brake to match the traffic speed ahead. My little Fiat 500e with Fiat Co-Driver does a great job with ‘gentle’ lane-keeping, and rapidly accelerates after a lane-change. But it will sometimes disengage Co-Driver without any warning - which can be a bit scary.
Great video, would be very interesting to see more comparisons like this, such as with Kia / Hyundai or Polestar for example. I was pleasantly surprised by the driving assist features on a Kia Xceed I rented recently. I would love to try an ID vehicle with the full driving assist package and HUD as well, from what I've read / heard it seems hard to beat.
I've an ID4 and love the travel assist, I only ever use it on a dual carriageway/motorway its just like a better adaptive cruise rather than autonomous driving.
In Australia it’s works well 95% of the time. I’ve had a used 2022 Tesla M3 for 2 months and use Enhanced Autopilot most days. Wide, newer roads where I live are ideal for the auto steering and navigation off the freeways is great. To change lanes when overtaking you need pull down on indicator hard as a light pull only puts the indicator on (not sure how that works on the non stork newer models)
Think you're right. I'd like to try FSD in the UK though. I feel EAP needs improvement and I'm still missing features like park assist but I do think that a vision only system with Tesla's neural network is ultimately the way ahead for the future
As a Tesla Autopilot-only-user, I always wonder how the other manufacturers are doing Driving assist. With non-tesla friends mentioning as well I'm quite shocked to see the comparison. Nice info, you proved your point well but we still love Tesla.😋
In my Tesla, I just use the scroll wheel to reduce the speed as I approach the reduced speed sign. The fact that the ID3 reduces its speed beforehand makes me think it’s pre-mapped as opposed to vision based on the Tesla.
They need to add a proper speed limiter button, like found next to the cruise control button on a BMW etc. because the adaptive is crap and around town the speed limiter is better. (No i am not talking about the limiter in the depths if the menu that only works from 50mph up, thats a different thing)
Not to assume everyone knows that but you don’t need to disable and enable autopilot when the speed limit doesn’t match, you can tap the speed limit sign and it’ll update the max speed
I have enhanced auto pilot in my new 2024 Tesla Model 3 long range all-wheel drive which was delivered this week, and my previous 2022 Model Y long range AWD had it. I've noticed that speed sign recognition has improved in the latest versions of Tesla software but agree it's not where it needs to be. I also have it set to chime when the traffic light changes to green, and noticed it doesn't recognise green filter arrows, where these are strapped to the side of the main traffic light stack, and you don't have an independent stack for the filter lane. So, I will be sitting in the right-hand filter lane, the straight ahead green light illuminates and my car chimes, but the right-hand green arrow is still dark. I think Tesla's auto pilot is modelled on the behaviour of American drivers. I used to drive a lot in the US, and found American drivers were much more relaxed compared with UK and Europe, except for places like the NY city area, Boston. But drive around California, West Virginia, they would take a little more time over the manoeuvres, plus the speed limits were typically lower compared with ours. Perhaps, Tesla's auto pilot needs a configurable behaviour module, so it betters matches the driving styles of a given country. Mind you, if it were Italy, it might be using the horn in preference to the brake!
Had a Tesla for a while now (bought from you guys as it happens) and whilst I love it overall, many of the automatic systems are under par. Wipers, lights, cruise control are all quite erratic. It absolutely hates cars parked on the kerbside or if you try to take a bit of a smoothing line through a corner (in wide, close apex, out wide). In summary, probably great in the US, but a long way to go yet to deal with UK roads.
Really interesting video Richard. I have two EVs, a 2022 Ioniq 5 and a 2021 Fiat 500e, the software of both is not great, the Hyundai is much better than the Fiat but there is no way that either is fit to be let loose on the rural and urban roads I drive on. We are a long way from driverless cars! And by the look of your Tesla drive it looks like its a lot more effort to use the built in software rather than drive yourself!
Thank you for highlighting this development lag in Tesla. We were set on a current M3 but this highlights the issue for the roads where we live. The UK roads and driver habits are more relevant to a number of EU countries and parts of Asia so Tesla need a larger training set from all countries, if they’re not already doing that. I dont feel compelled to crowdfund the development of FSD having seen this video.
As a Audi and VW electric owner, the VW is very good and also the safe alert features are very good , the finishing the car is not great but the tech and the direction they want to go in is very good. Really like ours and it's a great drive.
I am UK based and had a Tesla Model 3 for 3 years, and am now 6 months into BMW i5 ownership. The i5 has the full driver assistance packs and appears to be similar to your description of the VW ie loads better than the Tesla! As such I 100% agree that the Tesla is not so good - certainly compared to BMW! I also read today of some people that have been waiting for 4 years for Tesla full self driving and are now asking for their money back and / or going to small claims court to get it as Tesla have not delivered. Great channel BTW!
I have an Enyaq and the VAG system is generally excellent, I drive a lot using it to help stop me from getting tickets. You can tell it uses a combination of map knowledge and cameras when going through villages that have recently changed to 20mph zones. It would see the initial 20 change and then between the repeater signs decide it's 30 and accelerate. I've also had some weird behaviour on Motorways where it suddenly decides the speed limit is 100! And with the smooth acceleration took me a few seconds to realise...
Agree completely - have been driving a Tesla M3 and a Skoda Enyaq side by side over the last 2 years, and whilst not a fan of autopilot generally, do prefer the VAG system in my Enyaq which is more intuitive imo. The Tesla warns you of speed cameras which the Enyaq does not.
Just sold my M3 SR+ after 3 and a half years. Loved the car but was never able to live with the self-driving except for a few seconds when having just the single screen required that you take your eyes off the road. Just took delivery of an ID.7 and from my meagre 1 week of experience so far I'm with you on this. The VW's regenerative braking could learn a thing or two from Tesla though.
If want the best regenerative braking experience, test drive a Lucid. I know the car is in another price planet, but OMG it's so smooth and perfectly tuned.
Great video. Really interesting and useful comparison. VW and esp ID3 get so much criticism in may reviews but from your real time comparison it looks just fine. Range might be the only issue... must investigate. I really could not cope with the Tesla at all...!
VW uses MobilEye for driver assistance features. They have patents that prevent other manufacturers from using certain speed detection techniques. The newer Tesla software stack uses a different method for speed change behaviour that circumvents this issue. We won’t get the new stack until the regulations are updated. Tesla could retrospectively modify the older version that we’re using, and hopefully they will, because regulatory changes will probably take a long time 😢
@@TAD-9I disagree. If you can't create your own you can always licence others. Xiaomi has a really good system they use in china. They have been navigating cities for a few years now.
@@StephenButlerOne You're missing the point. The patent Mobileye owns for speed recognition is essentially just "using a camera to recognize speed limit signs". While it sounds simple, it's not as straightforward as it seems, especially since Tesla and Mobileye are direct competitors.
💯% agree. Tesla Model Y driver from 🇳🇱 🇧🇪. Basic autopilot is dangerous to use over here due to all the fantom breaks. Not just on smaller roads, also on highways it will sometimes slam on the breaks. We should petition Tesla for a dumb autopilot setting in the EU: something that just keeps the speed constant to what you set it would be so much better.
I have a 2021 Model 3 LR. Every now and then it does the speed change when entering different speed zones, but I can't work out why it does this. I agree Autopilot needs a big update. The other issue I have is why it wont re engage auto pilot when performing a lane change.
As someone else pointed out, when speed limit increases you can tap speed limit sign to register that for the sake of AP. What’s even easier, and achieves same, is pulling down on the right stalk for a second. Oh, you have a Highland? Oh dear, forget that then or buy the Enhance products which achieve the same. Time stalks were replaced - obvs…
I have no basis for comparison but our Mach E has blue cruise which i have used on several motorways found it extremely useful and actually made my journey far more relaxing once you get over the hands free aspect of it. the regular adaptive cruise control is also very good in my opinion but as i say these are the first adas system of this level i have used previously just had bog standard cruise control.
Great video and comparison - Though I do think UK and UN regulation is really holding back progress for Tesla in UK. When I watch FSD 12.5 videos filmed in the US, it's clear great progress is being made - It's just slow to get the legislation in place, so that everyone sees the real difference. Whilst things are being held back, we're all just waiting eagerly. Bought FSD with our 22 Model Y and believe that Tesla will get it to as good a level in UK as it is in US 🤞
Yes agree with this, we had a golf on hire when on holiday and it behaved much more naturally. Although it did decide at wanted to do 120kph when we were in a 50 limit in roadworks. It actually did the same thing the following day in the same Place! Tesla’s change is speed when lane changing is infuriatingly slow.
I have a 2018 MS with enhanced autopilot and I am astonished at how much better the VW is. Everything you experienced with the M3 mirrors my experience with my MS. On autopilot it will slow down from 40 to 20 (I live in Wales!!) after I pass the speed limit sign, but going the other way it will frequently only go to 30 not 40. However I do not need to cancel and re-engage, as pulling the autopilot stalk towards me and holding it resets it to the actual speed limit. Also I was very surprised that the VW seems to be ignoring the EU/UK directive on how much the steering wheel is allowed to be turned by the driver assist programme. Is this a case of 'We don't use that rule?', which I find is very common in the Netherlands.
Are you sure Richard wasn't turning on those tighter bends? The VW lets you do that without disengaging the auto steer so could just be that he gave it that little extra push, hard to tell with the camera angle he was limited to
@@DanielHarrisCodes Didn't appear that way to me, but you're right he may have done. It's just that I got the impression the the car was doing it. What about it Richard?
The answer is though Richard, in the Tesla it is enhanced autopilot only, not the full software program, so not the full FSD package that Tesla offer (although note, not currently available in UK). VW also needs pre-programming of maps, which Tesla doesn't. Guarantee FSD will be better than anything VW can get one of their 3rd party suppliers to program? So in essence, their is a Tesla product that is superior, just we cannot use it in the UK?
I own a significant quantity of TSLA shares and follow FSD quite closely. Most of the development is in the US, so it's nice to get some news and impressions from the UK. Thank you!
I’ve had a further thought on this. Having watched many FSD demos on this platform, I’m thinking it must be difficult for Tesla to make a paired down version of the best Self Driving system on the planet, without making unduly too effective. They essentially have to make a sh!t version of FSD. 🤷🏼♂️ However as I’ve said in a previous comment, there’s no excuse for Autopilot not to perform, minimally as well as the I.D.3, which is effectively showcased here by Richard. Again, nice work, certainly opened my eyes as to what’s available elsewhere, thanks. 👍
The Volkswagen polo comes with travel assist as standard despite the car costing half the price of other cars where their driving assistance system is an optional extra costing a few thousand pounds.
I really wanted EAP when we bought the car though I wanted to test standard AP first, but 2.5 years later I still wouldn't pay more than £500 for it in its current state. Really frustrating, with all the FSD developments in the USA it feels like AP and EAP have just been completely forgotten, was hoping we would have seen a cascade of advancements to keep up with other brands.
The worst thing about the Tesla is the cacophony of bongs, which as you say do not help at all, only irritate (and arguably distract). To make matters worse, it used to be that you could disable the bongs for adaptive cruise control (but not autosteer), but then they removed that feature this summer, without any explanation!
I find the same issues with my M3P: failure to accelerate quickly enough with clear road ahead, failure to decelerate in advance of lower speed signs, but worst of all, phantom braking that can be positively dangerous. So I only use AP on motorways and dual carriageways
I had one software version that automatically increased the speed if I had entered that lower speed limit from a higher one. For a moment I thought I was going nuts but tested it on a number of drives. With the next update it was back to how it is in Richards video. There were rumours floating about that it may have something to do with a Mobileye patent for adjusting speed based on signage, but I'm not in the know to understand how valid that may be or the content of any patents.
It was "earlier on" they did it. Gone this spring' ish. But so many other things has been broken after the "Vision" downgrade the car is outright horrible in anything but lab-perfect weather...& still there are just so many flaws.
cool video, but of course we in the UK are still stuck on the old branch of auto pilot due to regulation here - not the all singing and dancing FSD now in the states. I'd love to see what you think having driven in FSD in the states and compare the experience vs what we have the in the UK if you ever get the chance? Also of course, the turning of the steering wheel is limited here in the UK too vs the states - again due to regulation
I didnt know other manufacturers had this level of automation, thought they were just adaptive cruise control and lane hold on the motorway, as things are today here in the UK that VW looked a much better option and has opened my eyes for when I'm ready to replace my car. BUT, from what I've seen in the US where I have no doubt Tesla are focusing their attention for their system, the full self driving is incredible. I have seen videos where people are letting it take them across town, through busy cities where its navigating pulling out both left and right onto multi lane busy roads, changing lanes and turning at crossroads both with and without traffic lights, dealing with parked cars and oncoming traffic at the same time, and parking up against the curb at the destination, properly impressive stuff. So in the US I think the Tesla full self driving is miles ahead of anything else, but as things stand with the laws here in the UK and our roads generally being tighter and more complicated and so just not as friendly to full automation, this VW system looks the much better option right now.
25:34 that’s good! Did you have to “fight” the steering when passing that parked car on the left? Liked that disengaged and now engaged again lane keep assist 👍
Agree Tesla could do with improving! I have a 2022 Model 3 RWD and recently my wife got a 2023 GWM Ora. Honestly I prefer the "autopilot" on the Ora. It doesn't randomly slow down as often, has its own dedicated control stalk and will follow at a longer distance if I want (sometimes my Tesla gets a bit uncomfortably close on its max setting - especially in slowing traffic).
I may be a pessimist Richard but this is why I don;t think , in the UK, that FSD will ever be a thing inside 10 to 15 years as they really don't understand that our roads are smaller then in the USA. The amount of times the car shows yellow/red when I'm only a foot or so from the kerb is horrendous. Hence the reason I've turned off the sounds on my 2019 Model 3
I have a 24 Tesla model 3 which is my second consecutive new Tesla. Even with this new model there is no way I trust just basic cruise control, it's too erratic and phantom breaks to the point that I feel it's unsafe. My last Tesla was the same and that had sensors on the bumpers. I think it's all optimised for the US road system.
As a Tesla fan and owner I 100% agree. Standard autopilot needs a big upgrade, it's fallen behind like crazy
it's always been somewhat terrible - but especially since late 2022 when Tesla went full idiot mode and deleted all useful sensors, and decided that oinly using fallible cameras were the way forward...
The Tesla AP is just cruise control and a dumb lane keeper. Tesla has no interest in developing the free autopilot. If someone wants self-driving, buy the expensive FSD (by Tesla). That's the situation. But even so, the lane keeper can be used quite well on the highway. Other than that, it's not really good.
@lajosbarath1034 it's incredibly useful, I've driven tens thousands of km on autopilot ( not exaggerating ) using a steering wheel weight. Helps enormously on long trips
Totally agree. Love the cars but autopilot really really needs an upgrade
Musk has been too busy
Thanks Richard. As a Tesla owner since 2017 (Model S) I’ve lived through the evolution of the Tesla AP since they separated from MobileEye. It progressed from frankly terrifying to being a solid assistant, reaching the point where I tell people I would not want to drive a car without it. However, you’ve opened my eyes to other - perhaps better - options outside of Tesla. One more reason why my next car is unlikely to be a Tesla.
what's the other reasons if I may ask?
I’m also curious as to why you’re moving away from the brand. Please do tell
@@DeadlyDizzle-yn1vz Here comes the Musk brigade!
@@lucasroper46 the opposite actually, I’m wondering what it takes to peel a Tesla owner away from the brand.
@@DeadlyDizzle-yn1vz I've had my Tesla for just over a year now, and it's primarily the reasons in the video that are driving me away. I always thought Autopilot was the cream of the crop when it came to driving assistance systems. Boy, was I wrong! Phantom braking, ignoring speed signs, swerving for no reason at all, pretty terrible if the weather isn't clear (rain, snow, etc.). When you have autopilot enabled, it's like you're driving on tracks, and any deviation from that track completely disables the steering assist. The constant bings and bongs are really annoying too. And there's NO WAY TO DISABLE THEM, or at least turn them down. A real pain for those with sleeping kids or animals on long journeys. I almost never use mine unless I have no passengers, it's a clear day on a motorway/dual carriageway, with little/no traffic. In stop-start traffic, it's terrible. As soon as the car in front moves from a standstill, my Tesla floors it and makes me feel like I'm going to rear-end them, only for it to then slam on once it realises the car in front isn't an F1 driver. It's quite nauseating, really. I've had a handful of occasions where it actually would've rear-ended them, had I not intervened. Not very confidence inspiring, especially for any passengers.
I have an ID3 and must admit I find the system very good and use it daily on all different roads, town, county and highway
@The-Salty-Bager well the video did not sell well, with a totale car ar 21:20 if he would not steering and then at every turn from 24:20...
Completely agree with the slow pick up when changing lanes on the motorway. I think it is potentially dangerous so normally override if something is behind.
While it may not be the fastest, it is the method recommended by advanced drivers such as emergency vehicle drivers and is known as box overtaking. For example ruclips.net/video/XE4ivv_W6UM/видео.html. Although I agree the Tesla is particularly slow at picking up after pulling out, I think the VW solution here is too quick. Safest is probably somewhere in the middle.
That was a very interesting demonstration. Thank you. I was a big Tesla fan when I bought my new 2021 TM3LR here in Canada. After driving it 54,000 kms and seeing how Tesla development was heading in the wrong direction, in my opinion, I sold it last month. Four years ago I really only considered Tesla and Polestar as options for me, but now there are many more better options.
I agree as a Model X 2023 owner her in Norway.I have to say I realy like driving the car but autosteer / enhanced autopilot is just the worst I have driven........So frustrating.....
This is a very useful demonstration of the difference in capabilities between the two cars
Really informative and well filmed with commentary of the HUD on the ID3, Richard. Many thanks.
2:10 - Found a flaw with your use of Autopilot. I understand the point (I presume you’re going to make) that speed change should be automatic. However, if you hold the right stalk down, Autopilot will automatically adjust to the “recognised” speed limit - avoiding your method of constantly disengaging and reengaging Autopilot.
Personally, I love Autopilot, it’s far in advance of the lane keep assist on the I-PACE I had previously.
Having watched the rest of your vid, the I.D.3 is very good. I’m impressed by how much interaction you can have with the vehicle, coaxing it through bends or along roads (avoiding vehicles/pot holes) without the Autopilot system dropping out.
Great vid, Richard, thanks!!
What stalk? He's driving a model 3 Highland with no stalks
@@GreenTorque I’d guess whatever the equivalent operation to engage Autopilot on the M3 is - a variation on that.
I haven’t personally taken the opportunity to drive a stalkless Tesla as yet.
Maybe Richard can give it a try for us.
on the new version you can scroll the right thumb wheel up and down to change the speed.
They're not putting effort into autopilot written in c++ as fsd neural nets is coming to the uk next year and is a massive leap forward.
@@GreenTorque an alternative would be to double tap the speed limit on the screen. It has the same effect
I recently hired a Mk8 Golf with the same system as the ID3. Drove from Yorkshire to London and back with the adaptive cruise control on. Really excelled in start stop traffic on the M25, no need to touch the pedals.
And no need to touch the steering wheel to steering? Because here it seems pretty useless...
@@jeanbaptistelabelle Well, if Tesla cannot do the simpler straight driving and braking, it makes no sense to trust it for more.
@ContraVsGigi since when it cannot ?
@@jeanbaptistelabelle Read the other comments about the fantom braking and the crazy acceleation in a jam then crazy braking. There are quite a few people complaing about these things here.
@ContraVsGigi ah yeah, it could be sometimes smoother in low traffic. Phantom braking is the pendant of safety. If a truck cross the line, it does break. Other cars have 2 separate systems working independently: the cruise control and the line keeping so if a car just move on you, they will do nothing. You do not have a phantom braking...but just a simple collision. You may prefer the unsafe approach.
Totally agree with all the Tesla issues and the VW system looks way way better.
On the Tesla you don’t need to keep cancelling and restarting the autopilot when the speed doesn’t increase…you can just touch the speed icon on the screen.
Great video 🙂👍
Thank you for tackling this topic. More videos on self driving please.
You don't have to cancel AP and re-engage it to change the speed limit in the Tesla. Clicking on the red speed limit sign will change the AP speed limit to the same value. You can also use the right scroll wheel on the drive wheel (if you do "fast" scrolls, it changes the speed by increment of 5kmph/mph so you need two scrolls to adjust from 40 to 50, for example). Someone mentioned also just pushing the right stalk to the bottom for a few seconds: I didn't know about that and will try it.
As for taking over, using the blinker light isn't enough in Europe, the law forces Tesla to ask you to put your blinker THEN slightly push the steering wheel in the direction you're blinking. By the car will overtake and go back to the normal lane without any problem.
I was about to comment: "2:00 WHAAAAT? EAP doesn't allow you to use the scroll wheel?" 😋
@@Hexalyse New cars (late 2023 onwards with mandatory ISA) have disabling ISA when driver touches the speed sign icon. It’s not setting the speed to TACC
In Europe, traffic rules vary slightly by country. For example, I was driving on a highway with a speed limit of 110 km/h. In that country, speed limits usually apply only until the next intersection, and they don’t post signs to indicate when the limit ends or if a new limit begins, you’re just expected to know that it applies until the next intersection.
However, Tesla’s Autopilot doesn’t account for this and won’t let you exceed the posted speed limit by more than 10 km/h. As a result, you can end up stuck driving at 90 km/h on a section of road where the actual maximum speed might now be 110 km/h. Because of the last speed limit sign which Tesla recorded.
@@woodypwx Oh wow ok, I didn't know about that! Good to know! So I guess only the scroll wheel method remains on the 2023+ models?
@@denisaskirilovas4012 Yeah Tesla really needs to work on specificity of European countries. I live in France, and sometimes the AP is completely lost about the actual speed limit of a road, and I have to override it.
I 100% agree with your tesla observations. I have a 2023 M3 with only basic autopilot and it doesn't fill me confidence to go out and spend thousands more on teslas enhanced or full self driving packages. I only use it as a basic motorway cruise control tool
totally agree with this, I can't imagine forking out £3500 on enhanced with how standard performs. I'm sure its a similar situation with people having not bought FSD in the USA
Basically, the lane keeping of the VW...does not keep the car alone in the lane. So, how is it better???
@@jeanbaptistelabelle... didn't you watch the video ?
@pauljk5901 i did, did you ??? At 21:20, it did not take long: if he did not steering, the car would have been totaled. Then at 24:20 it did not take the turn, then at 25 then... well, if I need to drive, I drive but I fail to see the interest though...
I have to admit that I have had a little auto-pilot envy when watching various reviews on here but it was great to get a fresh perspective on that. I currently have a 2018 Audi S5 with similar functionality to the ID3 and use it a lot. I too am really impressed with how quickly it responds to changing limits and accelerates me into gaps on the motorway. The only downsides that I have noticed are the odd phantom limit where it just comes up with a limit out of nowhere and a tendency to pick up limits on side roads, probably due to signage rather than a fault per se. I know that a lot of content creators and related comments are anti this type of tech but when it works properly, it is not at all intrusive and actually has your back. I am not sure that I could live with the constant Tesla bonging though. Nice job .
Very impressive. We were brainwashed to think that Tesla were the kings of auto pilot and VW software was lagging well behind. Richard rightly identified the problems we have in the Uk with constantly varying speed limits. The real strength of the ID.3 is that it does not just rely on its camera but the SatNav obviously has embedded maps that knows where the speed limits change and therefore can prepare the car. This is what driver assistance systems should be about.
Speed limits change frequently in the US too.
VWs automatic windscreen wipers work properly too
I recently purchased a 2021 Tesla model 3 performance and completely agree regarding autopilot. I had a Mercedes with lane keeping assist and adaptive cruise and it was actually significantly better to use.
On my daily commute in a 50mph limit there is a 20 sign to a road off the right of the road and autopilot picks up the sign and rams the brakes on 😂
Agree with your criticism having to fight with a Tesla on steering and then just cuts off. Regarding the adaptive cruise element, it’s worth mentioning the removal of radar on Teslas, although the Tesla camera system has improved of late. We have M3 and eGolf, and the VW radar adaptive cruise is superior.
Did they not add radar back in at some point?
@@DanielHarrisCodes No, they didn't. They added Radar only in S and Y, but it's not used for the driving, It's just for back testing and creating voxel clouds to support the vision only.
Do people really use autopilot or equivalent on single carriage roads with faded markings? I drive a Tesla but I'm not a fanboy. My motives for buying one are the charging network, efficiency (4+ miles per kwh for most of the year) and cargo and passenger space (Model Y). I sometimes use autopilot as cruise control on motorways and dual carriageways but otherwise drive the car myself. Sometimes I think we are all becoming obsessed with technology for it's own sake.
Impressed by the id3 ... I have done 73000km since July 2022 in my Model Y and agree with your conclusions, thankfully I'm in France and can use autopilot on motorways here without having the problems the id3 would fix.
I’ve just changed from a Model 3 with standard autopilot to a VW ID7. I loved the Tesla but was always a bit wary of the autopilot. All the reasons that RS gives here, plus phantom braking. I am surprised to prefer the ID software and driver assistance. Very smooth, predictive and reliable. A minor gripe that the lane change assist only works on motorways (not dual carriageways) but that is not the end of the world and I guess is understandable.
It is refreshing to read how VW fixed their software, as when the ID was launched, it was a total mess. Can it do the update over the air? That was I think another thing they haven't had at ID3 launch date.
@@ContraVsGigi The software was always terrible on the early IDs, mainly due to lag and bad UX design. However the travel assist has always been good since the start. There have been some OTAs in recent times, but mainly a few bugfixes, and plenty of stories of cars being bricked in the process of the OTA update 🙈
As a Tesla owner, I agree. For the overall price for the car this best value, but as a driver it does irks me sometimes. I have similar issues with the auto wipers and the Tesla vision parking. It's great the car understands the surroundings, but as a driver those gray blobs doesn't help me park the car as it's worse than my vision.
Thanks for the video, I really hope Tesla takes notes. I’m not getting much benefits out of my Enhanced Autopilot for the same reasons. AutoPark also doesn’t always find parking spaces, and worst of all, Summon needs an internet connection, in the UK where most underground car parks don’t have a decent signal. I’ve pretty much given up on it now other than keeping a straight line. Tesla really needs to improve this system for what's worth..
M3 with EAP; I find Autopark pretty good providing there are some lines for the car to "see" it even works most of the time with the typical UK worn out markings. I've only used Summon to get the car out of tight car park spaces to get my wife in as she is a wheelchair user, it works OK for this, although not tried it in an underground car park.
@@huwjones5879this will change with the 2024.38.7 - this enables phone to car connectivity when in close proximity.
100% agree. I switched from a Cupra Born to Model 3 Performance and the adaptive cruise control and the assistance systems in general are more reliabel and seem more solid.
Travel Assist is fantastic ❤️
Basic/Enhanced Autopilot does not seem to get much attention from Tesla at the moment. FSD is where all the effort is going. My hope for the future is that Autopilot becomes a "free" version of FSD, meaning that the lane keep, speed control and obstacle avoidance becomes smarter, but without the full self driving experience, of course. It makes sense for Tesla to use a unified software approach, as FSD can be learn/improve also when just using Autopilot. They can still limit it from becoming so good that it cannibalises FSD subscriptions
VW´s ACC is amazing, I have a miserable daily commute with constant traffic jams and the car just drives itself without any issues, It´s a level of comfort i had never expected. For my daily usage it´s just the perfect car.
Having a Model 3 and Cupra Born in the same household completely agree with everything mentioned in this video. Thanks for this one Richard.
Gotta say, I am very impressed with Travel Assist in my new Škoda. I never thought to compare it with Tesla Autopilot, I just thought the Tesla would be better. This is very interesting and I am pleased (given I did consider a model Y) that I made the right choice.
@@matthewtyler-jones8317 a lot of non-Tesla owners think Tesla AP is the best for some reason. Really hard to convince them otherwise even though they dont own a Tesla 😅
@ I put it down to the sales talk of that fellow Musk 😀
@@tafl-9198 Unfortunately, I had the same preconception. I thought Tesla's AP was the best of the best, until I actually owned and drove one for a year. FSD gives me hope, but I'm not holding out.
I think Tesla just went into a dead end with their vision only appraoch. Elmo, at the hight of the AI hype just thought that's the future and has ignored reality. From what's been marketed as the best driver's assist, they have now pretty much the worst.
I remember my old 2020 m3 used to change up and down speed limits when in autopilot, but it would pin you to your seat when accelerating. It was a right pain, especially if you were in the slow or middle lane and about to be overtaken as it floored it. My id4 also floors it’s when changing up, but without having anywhere near the same grunt as a Tesla.
Richard, you are spot one.
We have 2 Teslas. Second Model 3 was used and came with EAP. The dealer didn't know it had it so it added nothing to the value. I wouldn't pay more than $500 for it. It's honestly all it's worth
I have an ID4 and I love the dynamic regen braking it has. Normally it has barely any regen but once I come up to a slower moving car, a corner, a suggested change in direction etc, the anticipates the slowdown and enabled auto regen braking for me. I absolutely hate that Tesla's has massive regen and no settings for it. Lift off the accelerator and the car starts braking. Some people love that and drive with one pedal. I really don't like it.
The ID cars also have the B mode, mostly for autobraking on downward slopes but I hardly use it. I just leave my ID4 in Drive and the car does auto braking for whenever it's needed. And if I lift off the pedal and there is no need for braking, the car just floats along like a normal car. The actual manual braking did take some getting used to.. have to push harder vs in my old Passat. But once you get the hang of the actual pedal, it's all fine. And with the dynamic auto brake, I don't have to do much braking at all.
The ID cars also have drum brakes and people laugh when they hear that. I love that it barely has any wear and you don't have to do the whole anti-corrosion song and dance Teslas need. Search for "model 3 brake corrosion" and you'll see what mechanics have to do to every Tesla to keep brakes in good working order.
Bro you just took the words out of my mouth, had a Tesla model y, and now the ID3. D mode on id3 is just amazing much more comfortable than the Tesla dumb full Regen mode only. When on city or driving more aggressive on b roads i use B mode. The ACC is also so much better on ID3 , don't have travel assist so I can compare the autopilot it self, but in Tesla it was pretty shitty other than pure highway with low traffic
It's actually sad because I prefer Tesla overall, but I really love the way Vw manages the Regen/throttle that I think I won't buy Tesla next but a vw group ev
@@hdiassss Yeah I do have travel assist and in heavy traffic it's really a dream feature. I hate that most VW software is so slow but clearly the actual car tech is so much better. I've been driving many VAGs in the past (Polo, Golf, Passat etc) and I've seen every feature come up and grow, way before anything Elon ever touched.. VW may suck in infotainment but they are true car kings. Also the suspension.. man, Tesla is rough. I love the dynamic chassis control on mine. Even more control.
@@mmaster23 Yeah i think VW just loses to tesla in terms of infotainment and Engine Power, also teslas have more space usually. Other than that i think VW has done it better.
Totally agree, the lack of proper adaptive/predictive cruise control is what I hate about the Tesla implementation of cruise control, we know the info is there yet it ignores it. I trust my partners SEAT Leon with predicative cruise control (PACC) more than my Tesla's autopilot (EAP).
Thanks for the video Richard, I have an ID 3 2021 plate. It’s a great car. The only issue I have it does show the speed limit at times. Yesterday my chargers did not open, I took it down to VW Watford. They did open it for me, my next appointment I could only get is 23rd December, it’s crazy. I’ve just got it taped with masking tape as advised. The issue is the actuator.
If your charge port is to do with the locking pin inside the socket (shine torch in on the left), I find this quite common on ID’s and a squirt of WD40 sorts the sliding lock pin
Excellent comparison and well produced video. Agree 100%. These are both L2 systems, but Tesla hype it up beyond truth. A working L4 AFSD still seems 25-30 years away and impossible without radar/lidar, cameras only cannot cope. Regulators will need to catch up. Prepare for incoming if you criticise Tesla the fan boy faithful are hyper sensitive to anybody who does nose ooze praise for AP or FSD (myth). Travel assist has its eccentricities too, but more intelligent and natural L2 system than TAP. A fair minded comparison. Travel Assist is nippier on speed, sometimes approaches round about or stopped cars a little faster than I'd be comfortable with.
Nice to see. D drive on the motorway , cruise control on and when approaching an exit , put into B drive and get on the slip road hit the brake to turn of cruise control and the car soaks up the speed and charges the battery whilst slowing down... Brilliant. I just wish there was a way of adaptive cruise control to plus 10kph of the speed limit. All the locals do 20kph or more so whenever i have adaptive cruise control its always slowing the traffic.
I love the adaptive cruise control on my ID.3, it’s effortless 😊
Try tapping on the speed limit sign on the screen, it should set that speed then
Absolute respect for your honesty Richard for telling this as it is despite the fact that a large part of your channel and business is based on Teslas.
Rather than following the fashion of just about every other EV channel and deriding VW EV’s you tell it as it is.
The fact is that VW were one the few ICE manufacturers to commit at an early stage to cars that are EV from scratch.
These other people bang on about ‘scratchy plastic’ and ‘laggy software’ when in truth the ID3 is a brilliant, practical and economical car. I’m onto my second and will happily get another when the time comes to change. And, the adaptive cruise is one of my favourite things about the car. It works superbly and makes driving a breeze.
2022 M3 performance - bought 2nd hand with enhanced autopilot and I rarely use it. Used it a couple of days ago and it decided to do an emergency brake from 70 to 50mph, and that was either because we were overtaking a truck and it thought we were going to hit it (no indication of that to me) or because we were passing under a 50mph road and it got confused. I usually just stick to cruise control as it feels a lot less dangerous, and even with that I don't trust it to slow down at junctions.....
Sounds like your experience is the same as mine. Used M3 Dual Motor which came with EAP. Passing HGVs is really hit and miss, the slightest movement in the lane by the HGV and the car brakes.
The behaviour when passing trucks has much improved the last few updates.
Tap the speed when it recognises it on the screen it will increase to the higher speed limits.
When I had my model S from you five yrs ago now it had AP1 and I don’t recall it being that slow to accelerate but only used it on the A3 to Surrey a few times. The vw did seem a lot more reactive in your test. Good snd interesting comparison.
We have two IDs and I really like the system , it's great to keep you within the speed limits and to slow down for roundabouts and junctions. The one little flaw with it here in Ireland is the VW mapping , it can pick up old speed limits that are no longer in effect. I taught at first it was caused by the councils and the roads authorities not updating their new speed limits but they assured me it was down to VW and they update the new limits immediately . Overall it's a great system and seems to be improving with each SW upgrade.
Best video this type on RUclips. Do an mg 4 comparison. 😊
I've had my M3 for nearly 3 years now. I frequently travel on highways into the city. When I hit the normal peak hour traffic, what I find very frustrating with the auto pilot is that it "usually" brakes pretty well for cars stopped or slowing down up ahead, though it sometimes will panic and slam on the brakes a little too late. But what is most annoying is when the traffic up ahead starts moving (from standstill), as auto pilot is still set to highway speeds it apparently believes it has to use all the power at its disposal to immediately get back up to highway speeds from standstill, only to then, of course, notice the car just ahead and slam on brakes again. The whiplash effect makes it pointless to use. If I set it to "chill" mode, it does a little better, but the auto pilot stack really needs a lot of work. Apparently it gets updated with FSD, but for those of us outside of the US who can't get FSD, we are stuck with this really old software stack that just isn't very good. And certainly not for software that is as old (i.e. mature) as it is now
I have model x and Hyundai Kona. Hyundai Kona brakes gently and picks up speed gently if it is very slow traffic. Tesla will accelerate very hard, i try to set cruse at 10 or 15 but still it will not accelerate smoothly. Tesla can easily add an option of how a car should accelerate in a traffic. I usually cancel the auto pilot when i am stuck in traffic because of harsh acceleration
This drives me crazy in my M3. I basically never use it in stop-start traffic any more. It's nauseating.
@@Tresla Yeah me too, I was excited to use Tesla AutoPilot before purchasing, after my purchase the biggest letdown was AP in traffic. After 5 series G30 LCI with autopilot it is very much downgrade.
A very interesting comparison video. I have a Skoda Enyaq so using the same system as the ID3 and I have also been impressed by it. Subtle differences to our Ioniq, but generally a more clever system than the Ioniq. One thing you don't mention but which is interesting is the behaviour when there is no steering input for some time. Where the Hyundai dumps you out of steering assist, the Skoda is far safer and interactive. I assume the ID3 is the same: after the visual and audible warnings it taps the brakes a few times to 'jolt you awake' before it then starts to slow the car down. I didn't know it did this and it took a moment to realise what it was doing the first few times I let the car go beyond the red warnings... It is fascinating to see how this technology is iterating. I'm still firmly in the "I want to be in control" camp but I very much appreciate the "assist" nature of the VAG systems over others I have experienced. The Hyundai is noticeably better than our previous MG and the VAG Enyaq another step forward.
You are absolutely right, I have been saying it for the longest time.
I had a Audi sq7 with all the adaptive cruise and all that which worked brilliantly 👌
As a Tesla fan and owner, i fully agree you. The AP runs on software from 2021? Very frustrating especially when following the FSD Supervised in the US
Completely agree the Tesla is too slow to accelerate after a lane-change with Autopilot - usually need to help it with a little right-foot. In contrast when queue-crawling it will accelerate too quickly and then has to brake to match the traffic speed ahead. My little Fiat 500e with Fiat Co-Driver does a great job with ‘gentle’ lane-keeping, and rapidly accelerates after a lane-change. But it will sometimes disengage Co-Driver without any warning - which can be a bit scary.
Great video, would be very interesting to see more comparisons like this, such as with Kia / Hyundai or Polestar for example. I was pleasantly surprised by the driving assist features on a Kia Xceed I rented recently.
I would love to try an ID vehicle with the full driving assist package and HUD as well, from what I've read / heard it seems hard to beat.
I've an ID4 and love the travel assist, I only ever use it on a dual carriageway/motorway its just like a better adaptive cruise rather than autonomous driving.
In Australia it’s works well 95% of the time. I’ve had a used 2022 Tesla M3 for 2 months and use Enhanced Autopilot most days. Wide, newer roads where I live are ideal for the auto steering and navigation off the freeways is great. To change lanes when overtaking you need pull down on indicator hard as a light pull only puts the indicator on (not sure how that works on the non stork newer models)
Think you're right. I'd like to try FSD in the UK though. I feel EAP needs improvement and I'm still missing features like park assist but I do think that a vision only system with Tesla's neural network is ultimately the way ahead for the future
As a Tesla Autopilot-only-user, I always wonder how the other manufacturers are doing Driving assist.
With non-tesla friends mentioning as well I'm quite shocked to see the comparison.
Nice info, you proved your point well but we still love Tesla.😋
Great video, should compare other make of cars eg Kia, BMW, Ford. Little things like this could change what car people will choose.
100% agree! Same HL, EAP user. adjusting vehicle speed to actual limit is a HUGE omission, curvature assist is a joke(as is)! :/
In my Tesla, I just use the scroll wheel to reduce the speed as I approach the reduced speed sign. The fact that the ID3 reduces its speed beforehand makes me think it’s pre-mapped as opposed to vision based on the Tesla.
They need to add a proper speed limiter button, like found next to the cruise control button on a BMW etc. because the adaptive is crap and around town the speed limiter is better. (No i am not talking about the limiter in the depths if the menu that only works from 50mph up, thats a different thing)
Not to assume everyone knows that but you don’t need to disable and enable autopilot when the speed limit doesn’t match, you can tap the speed limit sign and it’ll update the max speed
On pre-highland model3 you can touch speed limit sign on screen or push drive handle up to match the speed
I have enhanced auto pilot in my new 2024 Tesla Model 3 long range all-wheel drive which was delivered this week, and my previous 2022 Model Y long range AWD had it. I've noticed that speed sign recognition has improved in the latest versions of Tesla software but agree it's not where it needs to be. I also have it set to chime when the traffic light changes to green, and noticed it doesn't recognise green filter arrows, where these are strapped to the side of the main traffic light stack, and you don't have an independent stack for the filter lane. So, I will be sitting in the right-hand filter lane, the straight ahead green light illuminates and my car chimes, but the right-hand green arrow is still dark. I think Tesla's auto pilot is modelled on the behaviour of American drivers. I used to drive a lot in the US, and found American drivers were much more relaxed compared with UK and Europe, except for places like the NY city area, Boston. But drive around California, West Virginia, they would take a little more time over the manoeuvres, plus the speed limits were typically lower compared with ours. Perhaps, Tesla's auto pilot needs a configurable behaviour module, so it betters matches the driving styles of a given country. Mind you, if it were Italy, it might be using the horn in preference to the brake!
Had a Tesla for a while now (bought from you guys as it happens) and whilst I love it overall, many of the automatic systems are under par. Wipers, lights, cruise control are all quite erratic. It absolutely hates cars parked on the kerbside or if you try to take a bit of a smoothing line through a corner (in wide, close apex, out wide). In summary, probably great in the US, but a long way to go yet to deal with UK roads.
Really interesting video Richard. I have two EVs, a 2022 Ioniq 5 and a 2021 Fiat 500e, the software of both is not great, the Hyundai is much better than the Fiat but there is no way that either is fit to be let loose on the rural and urban roads I drive on. We are a long way from driverless cars! And by the look of your Tesla drive it looks like its a lot more effort to use the built in software rather than drive yourself!
Thank you for highlighting this development lag in Tesla. We were set on a current M3 but this highlights the issue for the roads where we live. The UK roads and driver habits are more relevant to a number of EU countries and parts of Asia so Tesla need a larger training set from all countries, if they’re not already doing that. I dont feel compelled to crowdfund the development of FSD having seen this video.
A very interesting comparison. While you might not use full autopilot on roads like that, it does help to highlight the issues.
As a Audi and VW electric owner, the VW is very good and also the safe alert features are very good , the finishing the car is not great but the tech and the direction they want to go in is very good. Really like ours and it's a great drive.
And when overtakes a lorry, it does move to the right a bit very smoothly but it’s a bit sudden/jerky going back to the middle which is a bit awkward.
I am UK based and had a Tesla Model 3 for 3 years, and am now 6 months into BMW i5 ownership. The i5 has the full driver assistance packs and appears to be similar to your description of the VW ie loads better than the Tesla! As such I 100% agree that the Tesla is not so good - certainly compared to BMW! I also read today of some people that have been waiting for 4 years for Tesla full self driving and are now asking for their money back and / or going to small claims court to get it as Tesla have not delivered. Great channel BTW!
I have an Enyaq and the VAG system is generally excellent, I drive a lot using it to help stop me from getting tickets. You can tell it uses a combination of map knowledge and cameras when going through villages that have recently changed to 20mph zones. It would see the initial 20 change and then between the repeater signs decide it's 30 and accelerate. I've also had some weird behaviour on Motorways where it suddenly decides the speed limit is 100! And with the smooth acceleration took me a few seconds to realise...
Agree completely - have been driving a Tesla M3 and a Skoda Enyaq side by side over the last 2 years, and whilst not a fan of autopilot generally, do prefer the VAG system in my Enyaq which is more intuitive imo. The Tesla warns you of speed cameras which the Enyaq does not.
Just sold my M3 SR+ after 3 and a half years. Loved the car but was never able to live with the self-driving except for a few seconds when having just the single screen required that you take your eyes off the road.
Just took delivery of an ID.7 and from my meagre 1 week of experience so far I'm with you on this.
The VW's regenerative braking could learn a thing or two from Tesla though.
If want the best regenerative braking experience, test drive a Lucid. I know the car is in another price planet, but OMG it's so smooth and perfectly tuned.
I'll probably get used to it but the VW isn't true one-pedal driving while the Tesla would slow to a complete stop, the VW won't.
@@martincolla5645 I noticed this on several EV's I tested and the only cars that come to full stop is Tesla, Lucid and Ioniq 5.
Great video. Really interesting and useful comparison. VW and esp ID3 get so much criticism in may reviews but from your real time comparison it looks just fine. Range might be the only issue... must investigate.
I really could not cope with the Tesla at all...!
VW uses MobilEye for driver assistance features. They have patents that prevent other manufacturers from using certain speed detection techniques. The newer Tesla software stack uses a different method for speed change behaviour that circumvents this issue. We won’t get the new stack until the regulations are updated. Tesla could retrospectively modify the older version that we’re using, and hopefully they will, because regulatory changes will probably take a long time 😢
The fact that patents like this are even legal is absolutely criminal.
@@TAD-9I disagree. If you can't create your own you can always licence others. Xiaomi has a really good system they use in china. They have been navigating cities for a few years now.
@@StephenButlerOne You're missing the point. The patent Mobileye owns for speed recognition is essentially just "using a camera to recognize speed limit signs". While it sounds simple, it's not as straightforward as it seems, especially since Tesla and Mobileye are direct competitors.
@TAD-9 I'm just getting rid of a 21 ioniq, that too reads the speed signs. Many companies do it.
@@StephenButlerOne Hyundai buys the solution from Mobileye, which is a direct competitor to Tesla.
💯% agree. Tesla Model Y driver from 🇳🇱 🇧🇪. Basic autopilot is dangerous to use over here due to all the fantom breaks. Not just on smaller roads, also on highways it will sometimes slam on the breaks. We should petition Tesla for a dumb autopilot setting in the EU: something that just keeps the speed constant to what you set it would be so much better.
I have a 2021 Model 3 LR. Every now and then it does the speed change when entering different speed zones, but I can't work out why it does this. I agree Autopilot needs a big update. The other issue I have is why it wont re engage auto pilot when performing a lane change.
As someone else pointed out, when speed limit increases you can tap speed limit sign to register that for the sake of AP. What’s even easier, and achieves same, is pulling down on the right stalk for a second. Oh, you have a Highland? Oh dear, forget that then or buy the Enhance products which achieve the same. Time stalks were replaced - obvs…
Very good video. I didn't see any phantom brake lol. I just keep my model 3 turned off lol
I have no basis for comparison but our Mach E has blue cruise which i have used on several motorways found it extremely useful and actually made my journey far more relaxing once you get over the hands free aspect of it. the regular adaptive cruise control is also very good in my opinion but as i say these are the first adas system of this level i have used previously just had bog standard cruise control.
Great video and comparison - Though I do think UK and UN regulation is really holding back progress for Tesla in UK. When I watch FSD 12.5 videos filmed in the US, it's clear great progress is being made - It's just slow to get the legislation in place, so that everyone sees the real difference. Whilst things are being held back, we're all just waiting eagerly.
Bought FSD with our 22 Model Y and believe that Tesla will get it to as good a level in UK as it is in US 🤞
Yes agree with this, we had a golf on hire when on holiday and it behaved much more naturally. Although it did decide at wanted to do 120kph when we were in a 50 limit in roadworks. It actually did the same thing the following day in the same
Place! Tesla’s change is speed when lane changing is infuriatingly slow.
Great content Richard, Tesla auto-pilot looks lethal and expensive…
I have a 2018 MS with enhanced autopilot and I am astonished at how much better the VW is. Everything you experienced with the M3 mirrors my experience with my MS. On autopilot it will slow down from 40 to 20 (I live in Wales!!) after I pass the speed limit sign, but going the other way it will frequently only go to 30 not 40. However I do not need to cancel and re-engage, as pulling the autopilot stalk towards me and holding it resets it to the actual speed limit. Also I was very surprised that the VW seems to be ignoring the EU/UK directive on how much the steering wheel is allowed to be turned by the driver assist programme. Is this a case of 'We don't use that rule?', which I find is very common in the Netherlands.
Are you sure Richard wasn't turning on those tighter bends? The VW lets you do that without disengaging the auto steer so could just be that he gave it that little extra push, hard to tell with the camera angle he was limited to
@@DanielHarrisCodes Didn't appear that way to me, but you're right he may have done. It's just that I got the impression the the car was doing it. What about it Richard?
The answer is though Richard, in the Tesla it is enhanced autopilot only, not the full software program, so not the full FSD package that Tesla offer (although note, not currently available in UK). VW also needs pre-programming of maps, which Tesla doesn't. Guarantee FSD will be better than anything VW can get one of their 3rd party suppliers to program? So in essence, their is a Tesla product that is superior, just we cannot use it in the UK?
I own a significant quantity of TSLA shares and follow FSD quite closely. Most of the development is in the US, so it's nice to get some news and impressions from the UK. Thank you!
You must be quite happy with the latest stock development, go TSLA!
I’ve had a further thought on this. Having watched many FSD demos on this platform, I’m thinking it must be difficult for Tesla to make a paired down version of the best Self Driving system on the planet, without making unduly too effective.
They essentially have to make a sh!t version of FSD. 🤷🏼♂️
However as I’ve said in a previous comment, there’s no excuse for Autopilot not to perform, minimally as well as the I.D.3, which is effectively showcased here by Richard. Again, nice work, certainly opened my eyes as to what’s available elsewhere, thanks. 👍
The Volkswagen polo comes with travel assist as standard despite the car costing half the price of other cars where their driving assistance system is an optional extra costing a few thousand pounds.
I really wanted EAP when we bought the car though I wanted to test standard AP first, but 2.5 years later I still wouldn't pay more than £500 for it in its current state. Really frustrating, with all the FSD developments in the USA it feels like AP and EAP have just been completely forgotten, was hoping we would have seen a cascade of advancements to keep up with other brands.
The worst thing about the Tesla is the cacophony of bongs, which as you say do not help at all, only irritate (and arguably distract). To make matters worse, it used to be that you could disable the bongs for adaptive cruise control (but not autosteer), but then they removed that feature this summer, without any explanation!
I find the same issues with my M3P: failure to accelerate quickly enough with clear road ahead, failure to decelerate in advance of lower speed signs, but worst of all, phantom braking that can be positively dangerous. So I only use AP on motorways and dual carriageways
If you hold down the right hand stalk, it will send the speed limit to your max setting.
Hi Richard, I agree. Interesting to try the new Chinese cars when they arrive in the U.K. Best regards Martin
I had one software version that automatically increased the speed if I had entered that lower speed limit from a higher one. For a moment I thought I was going nuts but tested it on a number of drives. With the next update it was back to how it is in Richards video. There were rumours floating about that it may have something to do with a Mobileye patent for adjusting speed based on signage, but I'm not in the know to understand how valid that may be or the content of any patents.
It was "earlier on" they did it. Gone this spring' ish. But so many other things has been broken after the "Vision" downgrade the car is outright horrible in anything but lab-perfect weather...& still there are just so many flaws.
cool video, but of course we in the UK are still stuck on the old branch of auto pilot due to regulation here - not the all singing and dancing FSD now in the states. I'd love to see what you think having driven in FSD in the states and compare the experience vs what we have the in the UK if you ever get the chance? Also of course, the turning of the steering wheel is limited here in the UK too vs the states - again due to regulation
I didnt know other manufacturers had this level of automation, thought they were just adaptive cruise control and lane hold on the motorway, as things are today here in the UK that VW looked a much better option and has opened my eyes for when I'm ready to replace my car. BUT, from what I've seen in the US where I have no doubt Tesla are focusing their attention for their system, the full self driving is incredible. I have seen videos where people are letting it take them across town, through busy cities where its navigating pulling out both left and right onto multi lane busy roads, changing lanes and turning at crossroads both with and without traffic lights, dealing with parked cars and oncoming traffic at the same time, and parking up against the curb at the destination, properly impressive stuff. So in the US I think the Tesla full self driving is miles ahead of anything else, but as things stand with the laws here in the UK and our roads generally being tighter and more complicated and so just not as friendly to full automation, this VW system looks the much better option right now.
25:34 that’s good! Did you have to “fight” the steering when passing that parked car on the left? Liked that disengaged and now engaged again lane keep assist 👍
Agree Tesla could do with improving! I have a 2022 Model 3 RWD and recently my wife got a 2023 GWM Ora. Honestly I prefer the "autopilot" on the Ora. It doesn't randomly slow down as often, has its own dedicated control stalk and will follow at a longer distance if I want (sometimes my Tesla gets a bit uncomfortably close on its max setting - especially in slowing traffic).
I may be a pessimist Richard but this is why I don;t think , in the UK, that FSD will ever be a thing inside 10 to 15 years as they really don't understand that our roads are smaller then in the USA. The amount of times the car shows yellow/red when I'm only a foot or so from the kerb is horrendous. Hence the reason I've turned off the sounds on my 2019 Model 3
I have a 24 Tesla model 3 which is my second consecutive new Tesla. Even with this new model there is no way I trust just basic cruise control, it's too erratic and phantom breaks to the point that I feel it's unsafe. My last Tesla was the same and that had sensors on the bumpers. I think it's all optimised for the US road system.