The Full Confession of Family Annihilator John List | Fascinating Horror
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Something a little different today. Since it was so difficult to find online, I decided to upload a reading of John List's full confession letter...
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This was all about his ego. He didn't want his family to see him as a failure and he couldn't stand that he couldn't control every aspect of his family's life. He felt that his wife refusing to attend church made him look bad and if his children also stopped he felt that would reflect poorly on his parenting. It wasn't about their souls, it was all about him.
After losing his job, he'd been stealing money from his mother's bank account to pay bills. After killing his wife, his mother and some of his kids, he took a break and had lunch, then cleaned out his own and his mother's bank account. He also took time to take all the photos of himself, leaving those of his family. He shot his elder son at least 10 times, but claimed in this letter that the boy didn't suffer.
This kind of case always makes me feel sick. For him to try to justify what he did, as if he did them a favor, makes him even more of a monster.
No, this was a Christian, who believed he was sending his family to a perfect afterlife! Belief in an after is also a factor in many suicides.
You nailed it.
He couldn't stand the idea of them not going to church any more because that was his crutch. He was enslaved by bullshit, so everyone else has to be, too.
He actually thought that not being Christian would be a worse fate for them than being shot to death, & to become famous as the family of a Class A Abortion who had no right to live. That's what religion does to you. Yeah, he was weak. The human race is weak. That's why religion exists. The weak invented it to eliminate the strong. His daughter wanted to get away from that bullshit = Game Over. But isn't one of the Ten Commandments "Thou shalt not kill"? No problem! Jesus died for him!
Sing it w/me: Swing low, sweet giant meteor...
He may of been making sure his son was dead. He grew up in an extremely religious household and was extremely religious all his life. I think he really believed his wife and children would become heathens and go to hell, so he saved them, and because any believing christian who asks for forgivness can be saved and forgiven, he could get into heaven too.
@@emilyadams3228 yeah i mean he thought he was sending them to heaven and saving them from hell by shooting them all
"It was the least I could do for them." ...Bruh, the least you could do for them would be to NOT MURDER THEM.
He's a Christian, so he doesn't believe he KILLED his family, he believes he SENT THEM TO HEAVEN.
Now do you understand why the belief of an afterlife is dangerous?
When people believe in an afterlife, they do crazy things. There was a mother her shot her son in the head to send him to heaven, because he was depressed and she wanted to relieve his pain.
Belief in an after life is also a factor IN MANY SUICIDES!!!
@@JosedeJezeus Belief in afterlife can increase bravery and cause you to win battles you would otherwise lose, it is usally best to promote. But then there are mad men like this who must be hunted down and killed.
@@JosedeJezeus ...your argument is very unreasonable....
either we believe in after life or not, after life IS THERE waiting for us ALL !!!!
It is the creations order .... we are all get born to die and start again later .... if one believes in re- incarnation of course ...
Now.... if some people use it as an excuse- for killing others or suicide for their own reasons - it is a different story....
You gave two examples of psychologically disturbed people that killed because they believed in after life ....
At least they did it for a good reason !!! As much as it sounds atrocious these victims, or any other, did get to be HOME after their
demise !!!! And the belief in after life IS NOT dangerous at all !!! The end of day not everyone kills or dies because of it ....
Believing in after life gives people HOPE that not all is for nothing in our existence and when the time comes for us to pass there’ll be
a better place for our soul to reside .... of course not everyone’s thinking is the same, but for the majority after life gives meaning
to all our struggles, worries and happiness in our human existence....
Have you heard of NDEs ??? Near death experiences ??? Try find some good material that has been written by professional people
from real death experiences humans had .... maybe they’ll change your mind about your after life opinion ....
My opinion comes from my own NDE experience I had years ago who HAS changed my life !!!
The fact is that when it happened I wasn’t aware of its validity and I kept it a secret, thinking it was maybe “ a dream “ ...later
I got hold of some books who answered all my questions and then I knew what had really happened to me...
Finally, there’s absolutely nothing that anyone can say to make me doubt for a moment, that when life ends we end too ....
Our souls go back where we came from, either one wants to believe it or not...the human mind is very limited, after al.....
WE ARE SPIRITUAL BEINGS, HAVING HUMAN EXPERIENCES..... unless some of us have a tunnel vision and refuse to believe it....
Well..... the least he could do would have been to put the gun on his head and spare his family ....
But we’re talking about a very disturbed man, so there’s no argument really ....
@Steve Jameison
Please don't talk about logical fallacies when you believe the Earth is 5,000 years old
Hurry up and "go to heaven" so the world can evolve.
The fact that he didn't kill himself too, just shows he was only thinking of himself.
I was just gonna say that! So true. And the fact that he ran becoming a fugitive, started a new life instead of turning himself in.
Yeah I thought that but I bet he'd explain that away by saying if he'd committed suicide he would have been barred from entering heaven and never be able to be reunited with his family which is obviously bull shit he was just a coward who wanted a new start but didn't want his family being happy else where
@@kt47793 I agree, he just wanted to be free from his financial burdens and his family, he only cared about himself.
Hannah19 thats not what comes across in what he said at all.
@@Totalinternalreflection You actually found good points in that bullshit?
Funny thing Is he went on the run, had a second marriage and more children* under an assumed name , shows how much Christian morals really mattered to him
Edit: *he adopted the children of his new spouse and raised them from childhood.
Remember to trust people when they tell you they're Christian 😈
He was NO Christian!
Don't you know, they're forgiven every Sunday.
@@amythomas1124 Sadly this is not unheard of many cases exist of similar deeds by Christians.
John Kalinowski, And Non Christians!
How cute that he thinks he will get into heaven after killing his family and running away in such a cowardly way.
I think it's cute when people think heaven is real.
And I. Christianity, all you have to do is accept Jesus as your savior and be sorry. Ta-dah you get heaven. It’s all good. Remember Jesus died for your sins. LoL I can’t believe people still buy into this bull$hit.
You can kill as many people as you like as long as you 'find god' on your deathbed.
@@trishayamada807 Its the adult version of Santa Claus. If you're bad you get nothing. If you're Good you get everything! But that's made up, that's silly kid stuff.
I’m amazed at how much effort atheist make to hunt down every comment made by a Christian. You all need a hobby.
This is what a sociopath does when he loses control.
But he didnt actually loose control did he? they had possessions in the house that could easily have floated them right on through until he got a job, but he wasnt trying was he, instead going and just fucking off at a train station, cause he couldn't tell anyone he lost his job, this wasnt a case of loos of control this was a pride thing, he was a rich man who was unceremoniously kicked to the curb by his previous employer, that really shat on his pride, and having to lower himself to telling anyone he was unemployed was too much for him, but he also had options he chose to take his own mothers money to keep up appearances, something that definitely would take control to keep the bank and her from noticing. and he was in enough control, to be able to kill systematically, and make it hidden for quite a while, and in that amount of time get a new life set up. he wasn't loosing control he just didn't want to recreate his life and have his family be apart of it.
psychopath*
Sociopath who evolved into a psychopath, like a pokemon. It's not hard to believe.
the court psychologist testified that he had obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, which I think is a better fit than sociopathy
@@loremipsum1972 Well I've made dentures my entire life and DON'T see how a court psychiatrist could possibly make that diagnoses after meeting with John List in person.
I do dabble in sarcastic RUclips comments from time to time.
A year after List murdered his family in Breeze Knolls, their 18-room mansion in Westfield, NJ, the home was destroyed by arson, leaving little behind. However, in the rubble of the burnt down house, investigators found the stained-glass skylight which had adorned the ceiling of the mansion's ballroom.
The skylight, which was reportedly signed Louis Comfort Tiffany stained-glass, was valued at more than $100,000 at the time of the murders, meaning List could have easily solved a number of his family's financial problem simply by selling this ornate fixture. Considering the amount of money List owed on Breeze Knolls was just $11,000, the proceeds from the sale of the prized skylight would have been more than enough money to prevent the mansion from being foreclosed upon by the bank.
that reminds me of a case i saw where a guy killed his wife only to find out she had terminal disease and only months to live . i grew up in that town and know the area well i was 5 when it happened but know many of the police who 1st arrrived at scene
@@emmaisalone That storyline was from General Hospital
believe me, it was not only about money in his case. it was about his ego and the need to control everything.
If he owned $11K then he was paying a mortgage. There was probably a requirement to not sell pieces of the home like that since he didn't own the home yet. Otherwise that wouldn't make sense- he can pay a small mortgage (probably $1K a month or so) indefinitely for many years by selling the skylight he doesn't technically own yet.
@@charlesbrown179 yeah, but he could have sold it anyway, then replaced the ceiling area with something cheaper. Then pay the mortgage off quick. No one would have suspected! Just saying! We owe a mortgage , making all sorts of changes in our house. Removing things, adding things. The bank doesn’t even know what we’ve done. This June 2023, our house will be paid in full! ❤️
Chilling. Like he was going on vacation and leaving instructions for the neighbor watching the house.
I think the first 4 points he listed really shows that he wasn’t actually concerned about their getting to heaven, he was upset that he had lost control.
He couldn’t control his children’s religious direction anymore after losing his income to keep them separated from the world (a point actually mentioned in the video) and living in the way -he- decided they should live.
He couldn’t control his wife, who refused to do as he wished, and from very early on it sounded like based on how quickly she started drinking after being with him.
He was concerned about how this would “look” to others in the community and he had no way to change that.
I think he wanted a new life; he wanted to delete his children, his wife, his mother, and start again after deciding he couldn’t control his family in this situation.
It was both, though. As someone raised in an ultra-conservative, fundamentalist, evangelical household, I think it was mostly a combination of being a control freak and being obsessed with the consequences of straying from the faith because of his religion. In short, his belief in a far-superior, suffering-free afterlife is at the absolute root of why he did this. Without that, he would not have done it because he clearly felt justified in doing it. Combine that lunacy belief with ego and narcissism, and you get this horrendous outcome. I can't express enough how much many Christians genuinely think that they are helping you if they increase your odds of going to heaven - I've been there. I was one of them. It is ABSOLUTELY not an excuse, however. He was a monster. But I say this because the mindset that led to it is shockingly common, and he's not the first man to do something like this. We need to be on our guard about people who place more weight on the afterlife than this life. (Note, some of us do manage to escape the cult-like perspective, thankfully, despite years of being brainwashed...)
Yeah just like Chris watts,
@@deprofundis3293 you seem awesome 😎 Happy for your freedom
@@johndoe-vr3xt freedom to go to hell ,the only freedom is fighting sin not indulging in it
Why does the "he" look like that? It's a weird 'h'
“Mother is in the hallway in the attic on the floor, she was too fat to move.” The Final Roast
😂😂😖😆😃😀😊🙂😐😑🙁😔😞😟😦😧😩😢😭
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I feel terrible for laughing at your comment
Y'all are going to hell!
The details of the investigation on this case are pretty interesting. Major props to the forensic sculptor involved in the case, he created an almost perfect model of what he predicted List would look like after decades, down to what kind of glasses he wore. The sculptor’s precision and attention to detail are what finally got this monster arrested!
I saw the picture comparing them both. That's beyond impressive.
I read that the forensic sculptor also worked with a criminal psychologist; to help determine where his face would wrinkle/sag more due to his common expressions and predicted future behavior/demeanor.
That’s also how they decided on his glasses for the sculpture. The criminal psychologist said said he’d likely subconsciously try to hide himself away behind thick, dark frames. The glasses they chose for the sculpture ended up being almost the exact same model as the ones he was arrested in!
The narcissism! "God didn't answer my prayers the way I wanted!"
God gave him a skylight that was worth a fortune, but he was too busy thinking about himself.
The christian I can get into heaven by saying sorry
God answered his prayers tho!
He had an extremely expensive tiffany lamp in the living room, he could have sold it, and have all his financial problems sorted out but he did not know it was special, so he just killed his whole family
Fuck this dude
@@usofator oh shoot i didnt read your comment before commenting😂
Why was God so hard on him? He won by a lot!
"I don't doubt that he is able to help us, but apparently he saw fit not to answer my prayers in the way I hoped they would be answered." That tells me everything I need to know about him right there.
Not winning the lottery?
God just isn't answering your prayers correctly.
So he's assured of his standing before God, despite murdering his entire family, because he knows Christ died for him. But Jesus' blood wasn't enough to cover your wife wanting to be an actress and needing a break from church or your children potentially not attending church?? This dude was insane and wanted to play God. That's what it boils down to.
What got me was the comment about God not answering his prayers the way he would have preferred. Like he knew better than God himself. Narcissism at its finest right there.
Melanie It was his daughter, not his wife, who wanted to be an actress
@@A2D4 Ah ok. There's a lot worse things your child could aspire to do! Dude was crazy.
i totally agree DEMON I SAY
These are the ones Jesus talks about, when they say Lord but Lord, I did this for you and that...but Jesus says “ I never knew you...depart from me you who practice lawlessness.”
Thing is, the ballroom had a glass ceiling made by L C Tiffany himself. If List had sold it, they would have been set for life.
He still was a fucked up individual. Regardless of money problems I would guess that he would have done some terrible things in the end. No normal person murders his children.
If it was $100,000 imagine what it would be now...
Litteraly living under a fortune
I had heard about that. Just proves that he didn't exhaust all his resources and was only looking for the easy way out. Nice Christian fellow, huh?!
Even if he didn't know about the Tiffany glass, he couldn't have sold the house? It has been described as a mansion and had a ballroom. They could have sold it and moved into something smaller.
"After it was all over, I said some prayers for them." So, he killed his family because he didn't want to live in a poor area but did not kill himself? And used his religion to justify his murderous ways? Okay, sure dude. 🙄
The "p.s" about his mother being too heavy to move after stating how much Christ loved him was a real kicker.
No it was his own ego. He was ashamed that he couldnt support his family and rather than seeking help he couldnt stand the blow to his ego. Its sick
Killing yourself is considered a sin.
So is murder.
As someone raised in an ultra-conservative, fundamentalist, evangelical household, I think it was mostly a combination of being a control freak and being obsessed with the consequences of straying from the faith because of his religion. In short, his belief in a far-superior, suffering-free afterlife is at the absolute root of why he did this. Without that, he would not have done it because he clearly felt justified in doing it. Combine that lunacy belief with ego and narcissism, and you get this horrendous outcome. I can't express enough how much many Christians genuinely think that they are helping you if they increase your odds of going to heaven - I've been there. I was one of them. It is ABSOLUTELY not an excuse, however. He was a monster. But I say this because the mindset that led to it is shockingly common, and he's not the first man to do something like this. We need to be on our guard about people who place more weight on the afterlife than this life. (Note, some of us do manage to escape the cult-like perspective, thankfully, despite years of being brainwashed...)
@@fieryeurochick3194 It wasn't about sin. Many Protestants don't actually care about that bc it can all be forgiven... BS.
What I find to be quite terrifying about John List is that unlike other killers who were chaotic and visibly dangerous, John was completely at peace. He did not show remorse, guilt, or any emotions at all. He just continued with a new life, almost as if he did not feel a single fiber of emotion when he killed his family. He was either devoid of any and all emotion, or was brainwashed by religion, or both.
Probably the combination of both. I think he had a natural tendency to be more hyperlogic than most people. Being hyperlogical in itself isn't a bad thing, but it does mean than emotions play less of a role in a decisionmaking process and can be (temporarily) set aside easier once the "logical" decision has been made. Also being brainwashed in religious logic and communities where "shaming" plays a large role, it's not a surprise he was able to completely convince himself that he was doing the right thing because his sense of logic was skewed from birth one could say(or rather because of the way he was raised).
He was clearly an empty sack of shit psychopath
As someone raised in an ultra-conservative, fundamentalist, evangelical household, I think it was mostly a combination of being a control freak and being obsessed with the consequences of straying from the faith because of his religion. In short, his belief in a far-superior, suffering-free afterlife is at the absolute root of why he did this. Without that, he would not have done it because he clearly felt justified in doing it. Combine that lunacy belief with ego and narcissism, and you get this horrendous outcome. I can't express enough how much many Christians genuinely think that they are helping you if they increase your odds of going to heaven - I've been there. I was one of them. It is ABSOLUTELY not an excuse, however. He was a monster. But I say this because the mindset that led to it is shockingly common, and he's not the first man to do something like this. We need to be on our guard about people who place more weight on the afterlife than this life. (Note, some of us do manage to escape the cult-like perspective, thankfully, despite years of being brainwashed...)
He was a sociopath, plain and simple.
Being brainwashed by religion can be dangerous but doesn't take away your emotions. So while it definitely has been a contributing factor or simple excuse to start a new life it wasn't *the* main cause imo
He genuinely believes he did the right thing and that’s terrifying.
Reason #237 to restore mental institutions with the modern approach to mental health.
Htos 1av only if they allow religious fanatics in them 😏
The bible states that anyone who doesn’t believe in god would be disowned exiled and stoned to death. The bible is s powerful tool, The book of eli is a good movie about this
I don't know about that. Seems fake to me.
If he genuinely believed he was being right, why did he not stay for justice and repentance?
Instead, he hid their deaths as long as possible so he could get away, then started a new life elsewhere.
*Pfft* That letter sounds like he was laying the grounds of an insanity defense to me.
"John (probably) didn't feel anything consciously either." I noticed that List crossed out "probably".....
When this guy remarried he engaged my girlfriends moms sister. She said whenever they met back when he was alive she was only a kid and she could sense the evil on him. She never knew about him and his past until a few years ago, but she said he had the weirdest personality on the planet. Cold, unfeeling, flat and vengeful. Up until the last day he was a devout Christian and was still a twisted man. She felt like if he wasn’t as old as he was when they knew each other her or one or her 4 siblings would’ve met a similar fate to his own children and mother. And to that all I can say is fuck you Mr. List, I’m glad you didn’t get to hurt Emily like you did your own children. Rest in Agony.
What year was that?
That's incredible - and chilling. Fuck you Mr. List indeed.
The man was a selfish coward. If he practiced what he preached, he would have faced the consequences for his actions as a means to repent. May he rot in hell
Still no response on the year? The lack of a response proves what I thought.
@@kylemcgill2966 I think it was in 1971
He is just making excuses he knew what he did. He didn't care about their lives or their souls he just cared about himself. He wanted out to start a new life. What a selfish waste of space of a human being.
And Lori Vallow Daybell
Yeah, narcissists are psychopaths and should be kept in insane asylums.
@@CoasterMan13Official yep. that's where they belong
As someone raised in an ultra-conservative, fundamentalist, evangelical household, I unfortunately have to disagree with some of the comments that claim it was ONLY about his ego or mental illness. It's more worrisome than that. It absolutely was a big part of it, but, sadly, his delusional belief in a far-superior, suffering-free afterlife is at the absolute root of why he did this. Without that, he would not have done it because he clearly felt justified in doing it. Combine that lunacy belief with ego and narcissism, and you get this horrendous outcome. I can't express enough how much many Christians genuinely think that they are helping you if they increase your odds of going to heaven - I've been there. It is ABSOLUTELY not an excuse, however. He was a monster. But I say this because the mindset that led to it is shockingly common, and he's not the first man to do something like this. We need to be on our guard about people who place more weight on the afterlife than this life. (Note, some of us do manage to escape the cult-like perspective, thankfully, despite years of being brainwashed...)
Oh, and I suppose you're all exempt from being "selfish" or "evil"? We all are monsters. We ritualistically kill/consume other living animals/organisms daily, just to continue to clutch onto existence. That is a selfish act.
The fact that you and many other coddled plebs are blind to such a simple thing really f***ing grinds my gears. If you think his actions make him a waste of a human being, then what does that make the rest of us, when we all exist out of selfishness?
Such a considerate fellow 🙄
A gentleman's gentleman
@Roger Barrett definitely not
Roger Barrett ...this was said with sarcasm
He murdered his mom to spare her from being sad that he slaughtered his family...? What a sweet guy!
@Anakin Nikana Lmaooo
I'm not really sure what to say on this one. The letter sounds so rational yet he went completely off the rails. It's terrifying to think on what a thin line of sanity some people walk.
Yep
@@buchichu7034 There's a difference between celebrate something and Remembering something. Learn it.
@@buchichu7034 That was real clever trying to throw religion under the bus for this mans actions, The problem is when you listen to what hes saying his reasons dont actually make much sense, he killed them cause he was worried they were gonna stray from the church... Problem his wife had already done that a while before, and his kids excuses all sounded completely arbitrary and slightly odd, he used religion as a front for his real purpose, but no religion wasnt his reason for rationalizing, it was his excuse, religions have so many issues and im not a fan of them, but he wasnt being true when he was saying all that, truth is he wanted out and all the family was in the way, how do we know, he killed members of the family that he couldnt think of any reason other than it would shock them, his own mother, devout christian lady and he killed her cause the acts would shock her so he killed her too? UMMM Huh
Right it made me feel like getting lost in the woods. "Well this looks like an easy to follow game trail, surly I can find my way back aaaaaand I have no idea where I am"
The letter was a way for him to try and frame the entire situation. It’s manipulation
Sounds pretty much like what my father tried to do with my family, though his reasoning for "uniting" everyone with him in the afterlife was to undo the shame he felt for ruining our lives. Ultimately, we got lucky, he was caught in time, and only managed to take his own life in a last ditch effort to avoid arrest. I was right there when he shot himself; I was only 11. My family and I have moved on, but not without immense struggle.
This video's left me cold. Probably not ideal for me to watch, but it was presented very well. On that end, awesome job.
Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. I can't imagine how hard that must be. Prayers.
Goodness, that’s horrifying. I’m so glad you and your family are still with us❤
"I didn't want my family to suffer in a cheap place!" Bruh I think they'd rather go to a cheap place than get murdered
He had a whole plethora of alternatives he could have pursued: Marriage counseling, divorce, welfare, etc. Besides, he obviously missed the part in the Bible that mentions it's better to be poor, humble, and honest, than rich and confused. There is nothing wrong at all with living modestly.
You don't understand,he genuinely believed they are in heaven
Did this man learn nothing in church? “Thou Shall not Murder” is in the 10 commandments. He went to church and he was upset because his family didn’t seem to want to go and in the end he ended up the unholy one....
This is definitely up there with one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard
He was definitely twisted.
@Lynda oh that's definitely up there in the top 5 for sure
“If any one of these had been the only condition WE might have pulled through”
So, about this whole “we” thing..
"Well I meant er, I meant it, well... rhetorically or something!"
"How could anyone do such a thing?"
"It isn't easy..."
He says as he sits down and calmly writes the letter after enjoying a sandwich and rigging the house to deceive the police long enough to get away, the isnt easy part was that his mother was "too heavy" to get to the living room with the rest of them it all reeks to me
Yeah, that's not an answer
It ain't easy being cheesy
It sounds to me like shame was the cause of this horrific violence. He'd rather kill his wife, mother and children rather than them find out he was unemployed and couldn't afford the large house they all lived in. They say Pride is a sin, it certainly was in this instance.
As someone raised in an ultra-conservative, fundamentalist, evangelical household, I think it was mostly a combination of being a control freak and being obsessed with the consequences of straying from the faith because of his religion. In short, his belief in a far-superior, suffering-free afterlife is at the absolute root of why he did this. Without that, he would not have done it because he clearly felt justified in doing it. Combine that lunacy belief with ego and narcissism, and you get this horrendous outcome. I can't express enough how much many Christians genuinely think that they are helping you if they increase your odds of going to heaven - I've been there. I was one of them. It is ABSOLUTELY not an excuse, however. He was a monster. But I say this because the mindset that led to it is shockingly common, and he's not the first man to do something like this. We need to be on our guard about people who place more weight on the afterlife than this life. (Note, some of us do manage to escape the cult-like perspective, thankfully, despite years of being brainwashed...)
@@deprofundis3293 exactly, religion is very disturbing.
I think it's also the indoctrination that presenting the facade of perfection is more important than anything.
As a kid he was never allowed to get dirty, was ruthlessly punished for any imperfect grades or anything that sullied the perfect image. For him growing up imperfection was not allowed and so because of that admitting he was imperfect was unbearable to him.
After ALL that he was worried about the cost of their cremation 🤦🏽♀️
was he though, he drained the accounts and closed them, so nah i dont think he was worried about it, cause fucking hell they werent gonna get nice cremations anyway with him taking all the money, they would get cremated by the state.
Right!? He said: keep it cheap.. as if they could even contact him to send the bill!!! He didn’t leave money for it just pushed it off on remaining family contacts as per the letter! Disgusting
Odiava tutta la famiglia e basta la religione è una scusa. Li odiava e li voleva uccidere solo quello è il motivo.
hysterical that he's listing things that are minor when compared wth murder.
Well, his last name is List.
Mass murder
He didn't see it as murder
@@nnzzp8330 Murder only has one definition. If someone is dead, you can't "see" that any other way.
@@NationandState I'm not saying that; I'm saying that in his mind, he didn't believe what he was doing was murder. He was objectively committing murder.
How very thoughtful of him letting them know where they could find his dead mother. Always thinking of others. 🤦♀️
😣🤣🤣
A complete monster. He was nothing but selfish in this act, pushing his plan onto his family who would have never agreed otherwise because he thought he knew what they needed better than they did. On a happier note- this channel is amazing! I can’t believe you don’t have more subscribers! I just subbed, hopefully more people discover this hidden gem.
He thought he would go to hell if he committed suicide, but not for murdering his family? I wonder how many people this crazy we encounter every day? A terrifying thought.
This is straight-up horror.
Whether he was insane or just evil, I don't know, but hearing this after hearing the story added so many layers to it.
I remember hearing about this on America's Most Wanted and I thought the guy was a control freak and he must've thought that if his wife didn't go to church and his daughter got into acting that they were committing a sin by not being good submissive women that obeyed men and were expected to be seen and not heard.
Exactly
exactly. Christianity is about about male dominance.
In reference to the funeral and cremation: "Make sure you keep the costs low"
REALLY??????
Yeah and they all apparently "agreed" on a cremation.
All of them. We talked after I killed them.
-Uh-huh. Sure they did.
Voice in his head: "It's cheaper after all, father dear."
I just love the way you tell your stories. Excellent voice and pronunciation. Very easy to understand and very pleasant to listen. Eventhough they are horror stories!
Thank you so much - that means a lot!
Religion should be about LIVING your life. Not about getting to heaven. I hate John List
I dont think he'll be going to heaven
I always question when a religious person does something kind for someone because they're only doing it to please God and get a ticket through the pearly gates if an atheist does something kind for someone they gain nothing from it except the piece of mind that that person is better for it
@@kt47793 I know a lot of Christian people who act all good and perfect and do good deeds and it's all for a show, to make people know that they are good Christians. They don't do good deeds because they care about others, but because they care about their own image and ticket to heaven.
@@jawaela exactly and again the whole forgiveness thing is for the same reason "God forgave our sins so we must forgive everyone else no matter how heinous that act is " like child rape murder ect they only do that because they think if they don't they'll be bared from heaven it's bull I'm sorry but if someone dared do something like that to someone I loved I'd NEVER forgive them
It never is
The longer I live the more I appreciate my dogs.
Very nicely read , thank you very much .
I agree! What an evil man john was.
That’s how much better life is for the other half. They would rather annihilate their own families than have to endure living w life like we do
For a religious dude he sure did miss that whole “Do not murder” thing in the Ten Commandments
And how.
This wasn’t about religion at all. It was completely about control over his family, and religion was just one way that he exerted that control.
One of the major things that caused this was the fact that his daughter Patricia was in high school and starting to resist his control. Her drama class in particular caused a lot of arguments because the father believed that pursuing dreams of acting would lead her astray not only from their faith, but from her dependence on him. A few weeks before the murders, Patricia literally told her drama teacher that she was terrified that he was gonna kill her, and that if they suddenly stopped showing up to school and he said that it was because they moved out of state to live with family, it means that he did it. After he killed them, this is exactly what he told the school when he withdrew them.
The one detail that tells this is about control and not religion was the arrangements for their bodies. The fact that they wanted to be cremated was already weird since most traditional Christian funerals involve burial and not cremation, but one of the clues that made Patricia think he was gonna kill them soon was the fact that a few weeks before he did it, he randomly asked everyone in the family what they wanted done with their body when they died. They thought it was weird, but they all said they wanted to be buried. They gave no indication that they wanted to be cremated. He didn’t ask them how they wanted to be treated after death because he wanted to respect their wishes, he did it because he wanted to exert control over them one last time, even after death.
No, his actions were in large part motivated by his crazy christian beliefs. Theism and mental illness don't mix well, ever.
@@Onoesmahpie I think there's a difference between motivation and reasoning. Sure maybe the motivation was religion, but I don't think he was religious because he was a true god-fearing man. He was religious because that's what he knew, and it gave him an excuse to exert extreme control.
It was absolutely about religion. Religion is about control - haven't you noticed that?
They tell you what you can and can't eat, who you can sleep with (and in what positions), on which days you must go to a special building and sing to the sky fairy.... it's all about control and it seems like this guy fit right in.
There are places in the world where religion is still strong and the penalty for apostasy is death. This only stands out to us as horrific because religion has been made to give up so much of the power it once had.
Do not forget how religion behaved when it was strong.
@@K1lostream dude i’m just talking about true crime i don’t wanna go into a conversation about how controlling religion is lmao have a good day
@@olympian00 This sounds like a no-true-Scotsman fallacy. You are asserting he wasn't a 'true christian' without justifying that claim. I mean, what is your definition of a 'true god fearing man'?
No matter what denomination of Christianity one is, there is some other denomination which will claim adherents to the former will go to hell, and don't really follow the 'god of the bible'. There is absolutely no consensus, so in fact according to Christians, from the perspective of the outsider at least, there is no such thing as 'true Christianity'.
Your addition of his letter adds an entire level of introspection that we rarely get to have. Thank you so much for both wonderful videos on such a horrific case.
he says he doesnt want his kids being brought up in a poor area because I guess he thought it would effect their mental health so instead he killed them. how does he not see the issue here. imagine if one had them had survived, the would suffer and live in fear all their lives knowing their father is out there and tried and may try again to kill them. like bruh
The most self-serving thing I've heard in a long time.
The fact that he genuinely thinks he did the right thing is just absolutely terrifying to me. There are some scary people in this world.
Thanks for this. I just saw some of it online in written form. What a hypocrite List was. He had so many options and even mentioned that the children were willing to cut back. Family members and church members most likely would have helped. The wife could have worked and the mother probably received Social Security. They also could have sold the property. I found out later that the stained glass in the house was on original Tiffany and could have been sold for a fortune in those days as well. What a selfish, evil bastard to play God like that and annihilate his entire family. He killed his daughter because she wanted to be an actor, his wife for not wanting to go to church and the rest so they would not suffer? Where is the logic in this mess?
Well mass murderers of this caliber are rarely logical. What a disturbing letter.
What's the logic in Christianity? He was probably mentally ill and that coupled with religion is a recipe for disaster.
@@ladycheyne5607 Don't bash Christianity unjustly. Not killing people is literally one of the main tenants of the religion. Unfortunately people tend to ignore that fact whenever its convenient for them :/
@@iridium5652 Yet god himself called for death and ordered others to kill for him. There are a lot of contradictions and bold faced lies in the bible. I refuse to respect trash like that. I'm sorry you feel the need to defend it. Good day.
@@ladycheyne5607 hmm true...
Does this horrific crime and brags about how religious he is
A true sociopath and a narcissist
Sounds like a typical cultist
"My daughter wants to be an actor. Oh shit, she might stop going to church. Hmmm... Better kill everyone!"
He wouldn't have done it if he wasn't Religious.
@Carl's Brother Self-portrayed vs God's will. There is a difference. Even though the action is the same.
A true psychopath, he was living beyond his means, and rather than live modestly, he decided to slaughter his family, while sparing the person responsible for his situation, himself.
Truly chilling. I love your videos for these historical documents and other such details that most creators don’t go into. Thank you for the excellent video!
Needs to be a documentary series on John List
There's a forensic files episode on this
If you look on netflix it's collection 3 episode 1 oh and bear in mind that the real crim scene photos are shown
watch The Killer Next Door. Its a 2020 movie based on John List
@@ezekieladodo2499 is that on netflix?
@@solidtron1965 search cant remember where I watched it
I well remember reading about this case after it happened, in either Time or Newsweek. The thing that struck me was the statement that neighbors noticed that the lights in the house which had been on all night gradually went off over time as the lightbulbs burned out. Meanwhile, the bodies of the family were all inside, which nobody knew.
This is one of my favorite true crime cases. The best book ever written on it is titled Thou Shalt Not Kill, by Mary S. Ryzuk. It is written true to the exact events as they happened.
I love true crime books and will probably search this out as I am just now learning of this John List😨
I have that book
I had that book when it came out in 1990. A very good retelling of the crime and List's eventual arrest 18 years later.
"Dear Pastor, I suspect you may think what I did was bad, but hear me out on this." I wonder if it had happened a few decades later, he would have sent the pastor a PowerPoint presentation.
4:40 Dude really went "yknow i had to do it to 'em"
It is all such a contradiction when he mentions his religion so often knowing that he slaughtered his entire family.
I actually learned about this crime on Forensic Files. Anyone who hasn’t seen that episode or even that show should check it out.
"I leave myself in the hands of God's Justice and Mercy!"
Yet he was unjust to them by taking their lives and showing no mercy to them.
I lived in Clark, just a half block from Westfield where this happened; I was 15. We kids in my neighborhood were all horrified when the news hit, we immediately rode our bikes the two miles to the List home, just to see the house where this unimaginable act took place. I was friends with kids who knew the victims; we all just couldn't understand WTF would cause a father to do this to HIS children, his wife and his own mother. Thankfully I had a wonderful father who talked with me about all aspects of life; he didn't need to reassure me he'd NEVER do such a thing because I knew in my heart HE'D die for ME. I could tell other kids weren't so lucky. Some alluded in kid-type joking ways what their fathers might be capable of doing. That List was never caught amazed me, until he WAS caught nearly two decades later in 1989, while I was earning a master's and then a Ph.D. in psychology at Seton Hall University. Less than a mile from where "The List House" had been located I entered private practice in Westfield, N.J., nearly a decade after he was caught. Sometimes a new patient referred to the crime & whether I remembered it. Quickly this inquiry followed the patient disclosing their own trauma history caused by a parent. And yes, my own immediate recall & subsequent reflection later at night while processing the day's events? Oh, I knew immediately, I had known since I was 15 when i told my two best friends the truth, ironically the very same year John List had murdered his own children (let alone wife & mother) I knew how MY OWN MOTHER felt the same way about me because she told me so every time she got mad, no enraged at me, glaring at me with such hatred, the likes of which I'd never experienced from any other person: "All the problems started with YOU!!! YOU NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN BORN!!!!!!!"
No, not physical murder, but SPIRITUAL murder. EXISTENTIAL murder. And yes, my own therapist (in Westfield) helped me understand it all, recover from the deep depression I was in, and figure out who I was & what I wanted to do with my life.
Some good books that helped me: "The Body Keeps the Score..." by Bessel van der Kolk, MD; everything by Kay Redfield Jamison, PhD; and many more.
Roberta Sparrow, PhD
At least one nice thing came from this tragedy.
@@pundertalefan4391 Thank you for your kind thoughtfulness.
@@bobbisparrow2228 No problem.
It’s both fascinating and horrifying how he almost manages to make himself sound like a noble person.
He uses his Christianity as a rationalization for "saving" his family by killing them: Thought his wife not regularly going to church would harm the family. Thought his daughter pursuing acting was against Christian principles. So he kills the whole family and starts over... Good God.
That crossed out "probably" about John is incredibly haunting... like he's lying to himself even after the fact. Can't even face what he actually did
If you look into his backstory you can find out why. He was raised in an hyper controlled enviroment with his overbearing mother wanting him to be perfect. He wasn't allowed to play as he could become dirty and all his 'friends' were selected for him. He was completely indoctrinated that presenting the façade of a perfect American life is more important than anything. He was the absolutely perfect image of the ideal American citizen. No matter how unrealistic that actually is.
I've seen shows on John List but have never heard the full confession letter until now. Wow.
He writes that letter as if it’s a argumentative essay he had to write in 5th grade and didn’t have any steady points.
That confession is just HORRIBLE! What a sick twisted mind he had!
I’m surprised he didn’t say “As we ALL know , Jesus did not like welfare and only lived in excess”
I’ve wanted to hear this for years. Thank you. Subbed
Same here, it’s difficult to find the full letter.
It's noteworthy that the worse people are, the more selfish, self serving in their rationalizations, and the greater their self pity, with not the slightest empathy for their victims.
If there is a hell, I can just he will most definitly be burning in it
What does it say about me that I can't stop watching this channel! You have to admit, they're amazingly well done, no?
The fact that he was finally brought to justice over ten years later because America's Most Wanted aired the story and showed an age progressed forensic bust of him.
I seriously recommend looking up comparisons of actual photos of him when he was arrested and the forensic bust. The accuracy is creepy.
I KNOW, RIGHT? That guy is a heaven sent sculptor. Real holiness. Not this trash.
The fact he didn’t turn himself immediately and instead went into hiding and starting a new identity shows how much this was really motivated by religion. He hated his disturbed wife and wanted out of the family situation and justified his atrocity with protecting their souls. Period.
Why was his wife "disturbed"? Way to blame the victim. He was the defective criminal! He murdered his whole family including his mother, FFS!
Different from your usual stuff, but great as the rest. I always wondered what was going through his mind when he did this. Your channel opening away into that couldn’t have been better.
He had a tiffany skylight right in front that wouldve solved most of his financial problems
This happened in my hometown of Westfield NJ in 1971. The list daughter was a year older than me but i didn’t know her. I attended one day of List’s trial. He looked so creepy
my family moved there the year before it happened i think i recall my parents saying what kind of town did we move to ? i was about 5 . i do know some of the 1st responders to the scene .
Yeesh.
Gosh he is a self involved, blaming others toad.
What blows my mind is that I’m learning of this as I reside in Bay City Michigan...
He apparently kept the air conditioner on high to delay decomposition. Also left classical music playing on the radio. How considerate of him.
Gold guy all around, right? Disgusting.
The music and the narration on this is excellent.. love the chilling, haunting music...
Ahh, the old "I'm certain God would approve" reasoning. Been used for centuries, to this day and on wards, unfortunately.
What do you expect from christians
@@flannelpillowcase6475, ALL Religions.
Exactly...
@@flannelpillowcase6475 The ones responsible for the most killings in the name of their beliefs were atheists (Mao, Stalin etc), so atheism is no less innocent than Christianity in regards to a person citing their beliefs as justification that others must die.
Other important facts: 1) List methodically went through the house and removed every photo which showed him before he went on the run. 2) List sent notes to his children's schools stating that they would be absent because the family was going on a vacation. Both of these actions were designed to give him time to escape.
A reporter for the New York Daily News interviewed List's pastor when the story was breaking and mentioned that it would be nice to have a picture of the family for the story. The pastor gave him the picture that was in the church records, the only remaining picture of List with his family. ( I know this first hand because I worked with the reporter many years later!)
John List was working in an office building next to my office building when he was caught. He lived in a nice house in a nice subdivision with his wife. No one knew his past but him. He almost got away with it.
When John Clark (List) was found, he was living about 4 miles from my childhood home. My parents were big America’s Most Wanted watchers and....yeah this was a big. Oh and rot in hell, John.
He was finally found, years later, due to an artist's illustration and/or a clay sculpted bust of what he would look like after the passage of time. Someone recognized this version of him.
He still wore the exact same glasses and also had the same scar, that made it very easy as well. Forensic Files actually covers him and the model made that finally put him in prison.
That artist is freaking amazing. He should be awarded a medal.
I teach this case to my forensic students every year when we discuss forensic artists. I always point out that List was devoid of any empathy, a sociopathic, narcissist control freak who believed he--and he alone--was in control of his family and their behavior.
His childhood was saturated with an overly-religious and doting mother and a distant father.
He was tricked by his wife into marrying her; she said she was pregnant, but she wasn't. John wouldn't divorce her because of his upbringing (divorce was a sin). He also learned his wife had tertiary syphilis, a condition from her first husband she had concealed for years (it's not contagious in its latter stages).
He had several jobs, but didn't last long because he had "personality clashes" with his bosses/other employees. He refused welfare or charity, saying it was also a sin. He refused to tell his family about his last firing (ego about not admitting he's not in control), but he refused to look for another job. He had simply been skimming from his mother's accounts to pay his debts.
His own children and wife didn't want to go to church (he felt his children would become more morally corrupt); his wife was embarrassed about the syphilis.
In summary, List's life was out of control, but he it was (in his mind) because the world was descending into a pit of evil, and it was dragging his family down with it, so he had to send them to heaven before they lost their salvation. In his mind, he was doing "mercy killings", but apparently he didn't see the need to join his family in "salvation" by killing himself, because suicide, like poverty and divorce, was also sinful.
In reality, John was mad for being stuck in a marriage he was tricked into, he wasn't financially successful, and his kids were refusing to go to church. In short, everything was out of his control--and what better way to get back control of his life than by getting rid of the things out of his control and starting anew? He admitted in his confession letter he knew what he did was wrong, but he tried to justify it with his religious beliefs. He ate dinner after murdering his family (comparing the murders to his WWII days, when he and his fellow troops would be hungry after a day of "killing Germans"), cleaned up, and went to bed--with their five dead bodies still in the house.
When he was interviewed, he said when he had his new life and remarried, "I rarely ever felt guilt or thought about what I had done. I just thought about them less and less, and wanted to live life freely and not incarcerated if at all possible." He died, devoid of empathy and remorse for his actions.
Religion was a just miserable excuse to justify his morally reprobate and sociopathic ego.
"Ps. Mother is in the hallway in the attic"...alrighty then Squirrel. Some deep, deeeep issues there.
One of my buddys at MIT's frat the #6 Club, Claude, was a schoolmate at Westfield High School with one of the List girls. She was no more a rowdy sinner than any other normal high schooler in the mid-1970s. The horrible circumstances of the murders and the self-righteousness of John List traumatized many Jersey folk. Westfield is a traditional and tony town. It continues under the specter of fear that the List murders brought---the "Watcher house"just a few years ago haunted one family.
A lot of troubles would have hit his mom considering he had stolen all her money while he loafed around pretending to go to a job he did not have. Not to mention the good possibility he would have ended up in jail for it.
Quite honestly I was expecting an explanation of the case after the letter, so when the video ended at the end of the letter, a chill ran down my spine
As a Christian and a Dad myself, the thought of harming your innocent children is unthinkable and evil at its purest. What a wicked awful person and to do so under the guise of being a Christian makes it all the worse.
1 John 3: 15 ...and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
tell that to saint paul. there's eternal life waiting for all of us if we repent and accept christ as our savior.
@@tzazella751 if you truly Repent is the key word, this guy spent the whole letter justifying his actions, not repenting. If you think you’re justified in killing your wife, children, and mother then you aren’t going to heaven.
@@mattm4557 youre correct. he was unrepentant and a blasphemer
Thank you for uploading this video, I hadn't heard or read the full letter before.
It’s the great thing about Christianity, sin away then ask for forgiveness
I know right? Wow.
Binge watched this entire channel over the past few weeks. This was my last video as I'm not that into serial killer stuff. Great channel and great work, keep them coming!
I always wonder how someone hides such a dark soul from those closest to them?
Why is no one talking about the fact that he thought his family would be better off dead than not Christian? Their religion wasn’t up to him, and it was absolutely not worth them dying. The fact that anyone would ever have that thought is absolutely disgusting,fitting of a disgustingly horrible man.
The self rationalization is amazing.
As someone raised in an ultra-conservative, fundamentalist, evangelical household, I unfortunately have to disagree with some of the comments that claim it was ONLY about his ego. It absolutely was a big part of it, but, sadly, his delusional belief in a far-superior, suffering-free afterlife is at the absolute root of why he did this. Without that, he would not have done it because he clearly felt justified in doing it. Combine that lunacy belief with ego and narcissism, and you get this horrendous outcome. I can't express enough how much many Christians genuinely think that they are helping you if they increase your odds of going to heaven - I've been there. It is ABSOLUTELY not an excuse, however. (And some of us do manage to escape the cult-like perspective, thankfully...)